The Great Green Lantern Debate

[Dave Stewart]

Soooo...

Who is the rightful Green Lantern of space sector 2814?

Hal, Alan, Kyle, John, Jade, Guy, or Abin Sur?

And why?

[Menocchio]

What they did to Hal was unforgivable. The worst part is taht DC wouldn't just 'fess up, and spent at least three company-wide x-overs trying to fix it!

Brintg him back or let him die!

[aegypt]

For the benefit of non-readers of Green Lantern who wish to broaden their knowledge, could somebody provide some background info to this question, or a link?

I have a dim memory Green Lanterns real name is Kyle something, but they have probably changed the continuity a few dozen times since last time I read the title. Is he still allergic to yellow?

Whether he is really the rightful Green Lantern seems more like a religious question to me. Is John Paul II the rightful pope? Who knows?

[Fenris]

Originally posted by aegypt
For the benefit of non-readers of Green Lantern who wish to broaden their knowledge, could somebody provide some background info to this question, or a link?

I have a dim memory Green Lanterns real name is Kyle something, but they have probably changed the continuity a few dozen times since last time I read the title. Is he still allergic to yellow?

Whether he is really the rightful Green Lantern seems more like a religious question to me. Is John Paul II the rightful pope? Who knows?

aegypt: Th' upshot was that A) Green Lantern sales were mediocre, B) big "torture the hero" storyarcs were hot ("The Death of Superman", "The Breaking of Batman('s back)" and C) The editor (who drove Peter David off Aquaman) was an idiot.

In a big crossover about 6 months earlier, Coast City was destroyed. The writer at the time had spent several issues of Hal coming to grips with it. There was some good stuff. But, the big 50th issue was coming up and the (idiot) editor decided to have Hal go insane and kill the entire Green Lantern Corps. The writer at the time refused and the (idiot) editor hired someone who'd script his plot.

The (idiot) editor's plot involved throwing out 6 months of story (and an ongoing arc), 30-some years of Hal's character and broke a number of continuity rules (more rings do NOT make a GL more powerful: it's willpower only). Anyway, in an abysmal 3-issue story arc, Hal goes insane and kills a bunch of the Green Lantern Corps (stealing their rings as he went, so he had about 20 rings), killing the Guardians, and breaking the central power battery in an effort to bring Coast City back from the dead. Why the Guardians didn't just turn off the rings as they'd done in the past remains a mystery.

Anyway, eventually, Hal's evil plot (to save lives and rescue people) is defeated and Hal vanishes to become the idiotally named "Parallex" for the Zero-Hour Crossover.

Th' issue after the arc, the one remaining Guardian shows up on earth and gives an Uber-Ring (no allergy to yellow, doesn't need to be recharged) to the first bozo he sees. Unfortunately this kid is so dumb that he's lived in the DC universe and never heard of Green Lanterns, Guardians (even though there've been TV specials broadcast from Oa), etc.

Three problems with the new kid (Kyle) at the start:
1) He's got an inferiorty complex. The first 40 issues of his run could be summed up by saying that he ran to every super-hero around snivelling that he needed affirmation ("Am I really and truly a good Green Lantern? Really? Please tell me I am.")

2) Because the ring has no weaknessess, it was too hard to write. So the writer compensated by making Kyle dumb. He couldn't think his way out of a paper bag and he kept losing the ring. People would steal the ring. People would trick him out of the ring. Validus (IIRC) once got the ring from Kyle. During that period, Kyle could've been defeated by a girl-scout with a handful of "magic" beans, if she offered a trade.

3) He had/has a godawful bad costume.

4) The idiot editor (the writer...um...Marz has commented about this) kept teasing the Hal fans (Next Issue; The RETURN OF THE GREEN LANTERN CORPS! jes' foolin' suckers. But seriously folks, Next Issue; The RETURN OF HAL! madeja look!)

To add insult to injury, the idiot editor, the writer, a number of other DC types and, strangely Peter David, who I respect normally kept misrepresenting the fan's position. They kept repeating the mantra "You just can't cope with change! It's a good thing you weren't around in the '50s, or you'd be bitching that Barry Allen's no Jay Garrick!" apparently without realizing that many of us had no problem with a new Green Lantern (we didn't with Wally taking over for Barry) but we had a huge problem with the trashing of Hal. This smarmy "You just hate change" attitude lead to a lot of the anti-Kyle sentiment

There was a big crossover that totally failed called Zero-Hour where Hal was trying to recreate the Multiverse (while leaving the post-Crisis universe intact ("We can all have what we want! I'm trying to save infinite lives here!")) For some reason, this pissed everyone off and Green Arrow shot Hal, who just barely survived. The big problem with this crossover is that everyone (pro-Hal and pro-Kyle, were rooting for Hal to win. The heroes resistance to Hal's scheme to save all the people who died in the Crisis was baffling)

In the next big crossover, Hal died, saving Earth from a Sun-Eater (if he can recreate the multiverse, why did a giant amoeba kill him?). Now Hal's ghost the new Spectre in a remarkably dull book, given the high level of talent involved.

A while back the writer and the (idiot) editor of GL have left the book and there's been a new creative team or two and things have improved. I have nothing against Kyle as written now, or as by Grant Morrison ('though the costume is still gawdawful bad) but I still resent the shoddy treatment of Hal.

Tony Isabella had a wonderful idea in an issue of CBG. (This was right befor the Sun-Eater thing). His idea was that the Real Hal has been trapped on Apokolypse all this time (DeSaad: He won't break! Why can't I break him?"), and the guy who went insane, etc was Power Ring (a post-Crisis version of the Earth-3 character). He proposed a big crossover where Hal's rescued, and either dies heroically, or retires due to the injuries suffered, saving Hal's rep but keeping Kyle as GL. But such was not meant to be.

In one sense the stunt worked. Sales were somewhat better after Kyle. GL had been a very stale book (in terms of sales) for years. Apparently, it's still one of DC's better sellers. But at the same time, how much better could sales have been if the (idiot) editor didn't go out of his way to alienate a huge chunk of fans every time he could? One data point: every time Hal or the GL Corps were on the cover, sales jumped.

I'm not a Kyle hater (outside of the first 40 issues or so). There are possibilities for the character...Grant Morrison and this new guy have explored some. But given his first 40 issues or so, to me the One True Green Lantern will always be Hal.

Fenris

[bafaa]

I stopped collecting comics back around the time Kyle became the new Lantern. So he's still the only Green Lantern? There's no new corp?
What's happening with John Stewart? I seem remember he became a Darkstar. Is he still one?

[Fenris]

One of the (idiot) editor's decrees was that there would be only ONE TRUE GREEN LANTERN AND IT'S KYLE, DAMMIT, KYLE!!!!! because "it's too confusing to the reader to have multiple people with the same powers.". (Well, that and the fact that Dennoy O'Neill got tons of $$$ when his now-forgotten "Batman's new, better than the Joker, dammit! arch-villain" Bane was optioned for a movie. Apparently a lot of writers at the time got the idea that if their version of a character became a hit, they'd get $$$$ too. That also probably had something to do with it)

Therefore, Jade? Depowered. Alan (Golden Age GL) Scott? depowered, repowered with different powers and renamed (Sentinal) repowered with his real powers, but no ring/lantern. GL Corps? Dead or depowered. A character from Legion of Superheroes (Celeste Rockfish) in the middle of a story-arc where she's accessing green solid energy? Poof no longer has mysterious green force powers, she has been and is a Darkstar. Why? Dunno. Arc was totally forgotten and was probably the last straw that forced the Legion to reboot. Guy Gardener (who was having a really good run with Sinestro's yellow ring) Poof now an alien shape-changer (Don't ask me, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either.) Somewhere in here, (may not be this (idiot) editor) John Stewart got crippled. I don't remember how. Hal in one last act before the space-amoeba killed him de-crippled John .

What's dumb is that at the exact same time, Mark Waid was happily recreating the Flash "family" during Wally's best (ahem) run (roughly 64-110 or so). Jay Garrick, Wally, Johnny and Jonnie Quick, Max (Quicksilver) Mercury, Bart (Impulse) Allen, the Tornado Twins, etc were all regularly guest starring and the book was a financial and critical hit. So the idea that "More than one person with the same powers is too confusing" is right out the window.

After a half-dozen teases (The Corps is back---fooledja!) the new team has given into fan pressure and given Jade a power ring so there's exactly three people who can do the GL thing: Kyle and Jade, plus Alan ("Sentinel") Scott.

Fenris

[bafaa]

Thanks Fenris!
Now I remember why I stopped collecting comics in the first place. :)

[Anal Scurvy]

Ron Marz is so stupid that I would invoke some punitive sodomy if I had half the chance. Yeah, Dooley is stupid too, but Dooley doesn't write complex moral dilemmas that involve Green Lantern agonizing over if he should chase the villain or rescue a bus full of handicapped children about to be hit by a train. Just to pull the audiences heart strings, the children are all screaming, "Help me! I'm handicapped and lovable and I'm going to get hit by a train!"

I think Kyle went back in time and ran into Hal Jordon or something. It was really stupid.

[Otto]

After a half-dozen teases (The Corps is back---fooledja!) the new team has given into fan pressure and given Jade a power ring so there's exactly three people who can do the GL thing: Kyle and Jade, plus Alan ("Sentinel") Scott.

I think I got some of this story arc when my ex was my current and he was spending his rent money on comic books. Wasn't the deal that Hal Jordan somehow came forward in time and slipped Kyle a copy of his (Hal's) ring, which could be used to make duplicates of itself? he gave one to Jade and then took off into space to re-create the GL Corps. He ended up giving a ring to a tyrant or something and all the ring copies were destroyed? I thought Jade's copy was also destroyed somehow in this mess.

[Otto]

Oh, and may I just add, any fool knows there is one and only one true Green Lantern, and that is Ch'p! "Don't mess with the furballs."

[Fenris]

Originally posted by Otto
He ended up giving a ring to a tyrant or something and all the ring copies were destroyed? I thought Jade's copy was also destroyed somehow in this mess.

It was. It got lost in the ocean or something. But somewhere along the way she got another one. Or her powers back. Or something.

Fenris

[Czarcasm]

Thanks for bringing up that stupid storyline, Fenris. I was almost over the death of Killawog. :(

[Polycarp]

Killawog? The only thing I've ever run into with that name is a hamlet in southern New York State between Marathon and Castle Creek (or between Cortland and Binghamton on a smaller-scale map).

And none of this matches Niven's "Green Lantern Bible"!!

[Fenris]

Originally posted by Polycarp
Killawog? The only thing I've ever run into with that name is a hamlet in southern New York State between Marathon and Castle Creek (or between Cortland and Binghamton on a smaller-scale map).

And none of this matches Niven's "Green Lantern Bible"!!

You're not finding the character because everyone's spelling his name wrong. It's Killowog. He's a vaguely hippo-looking GL, originally a from a herd-race (Gentle Giants of Ganymede-esque), he became a tough-macho drill sergant type in the face of multiple revisions. You can see a picture of him here (http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=37137612952%20206) (he's the Green Lantern, not the guy in the black jumpsuit.*)

And as much as I like Niven, his "GL Bible" shows that he didn't do his homework. It would be like doing a Star Trek bible and saying..."OK, first up: let's say that there's never been a "warp drive", no possiblity of interspecies breeding and let's lose the transporters, 'kay?". If you throw out the "Origin Story", huge chunks of the DC Universe are undermined, the most obvious example is the entire Crisis on Infinte Earths thing, which, without the "Origin Story" couldn't happen (since the "origin story" was the linchpin for it.

Niven's aversion to mysticism is to be commended, but not in a universe that has Zatanna and the Spectre running around. (It was a neat article, though)

Fenris

*Speaking of the guy in the black jumpsuit, what the heck does the expression "black hand" mean? The character describes his origin as "I'm the black sheep of the Hand family. So I'm the Black Hand, geddit?". And well, no. I don't. I've heard of black sheep, bad eggs, green thumb, jack of all trades and so on, but I've never heard of a "black hand".

[Menocchio]

The good news is that on TV, all of the above is ignored.

On Superman, the first time in recent decades taht the GL mythos was shopwn to TV audiences, Kyle was given the ring, but through Hal's origin (he was chosen when Abin Sur, the previous GL lay dying, instead of given it randomly). The Guardians are alive and the Corps is still active, althpugh the yellow weakness seems to be gone.

More recently, on Cartoon Network's Justice League, John Stewart (another vetran GL) has the ring. The yellow weakness is gone (or at least not yet commented upon, but I did note the color of the gas that knocked him out in the pilot) but several favorite departed members of the Corps were present at his trial in the latest episode.

Can television influence things in the comics? Two Words: Harley Quinn.

Oh, and Fenris, Stewart was injured while defending Rann from (ahem) Darkseid's illigitimate son (not Kalibak or Orion), whose name escapes me because he was dumb. He looked like Darkseid in dreds, IIRC.

[Otto]

Speaking of the guy in the black jumpsuit, what the heck does the expression "black hand" mean?

Unknown if it has anything to do with the origin of the character Black hand, but I believe that "black hand" is slang for the Mafia.

[broccoli!]

[black hand hijak]

The term 'black hand has been used by, and affiliated with, organized crime in several different cultures/countries. Mainly Japan, the American 'family', and several carribean cartels.

[/B.H.H.]

[Osip]

Was theere not an idiot GL in a few Justive League Internations series.. I think his name was "Nort"????

what happened to him???

[Otto]

"G'nort" I believe.

What I remember of his rather bizarre origin is that his uncle was made a "Green Lantern" by some fake "Guardians" who looked amazingly like earth clowns. G'nort wanted to be a GL too so his uncle took him to the "Guardians" and they gave him a ring. When the fake Guardians were exposed, I think G'nort was given a real ring by a real GL. While G'nort was almost pure comic relief, I do seem to remember a few moments of true heroism and sacrifice. Presumably he is de-powered along with the rest of the Corps.

[Fenris]

Originally posted by Otto
While G'nort was almost pure comic relief, I do seem to remember a few moments of true heroism and sacrifice. Presumably he is de-powered along with the rest of the Corps.

I'm not positive at all, but I believe he was butchered in one of Dooley's periodic "NO ONE CAN TALK ABOUT A GREEN LANTERN EXCEPT KYLE" rages.

Fenris

[Dave Stewart]

Looks like a bunch of pro-Hal ers here....

I was always a fan of John Stewart (no relation). I was aghast at the political incorrectness of taking the most powerful weapon in the universe from a black guy (who was part of the mythos) and giving it to an unknown brick of a white guy.

I'm very happy about Stewart's role in the TV JL series. I'm hoping the TV show's popularity will result in Rayner dying heroically, tragically, and to my happiness, to be replaced by Stewart.

[Cliffy]

I started reading GL maybe six months before Marz left, although I've picked up various Hal issues along the way. (And I've read a lot of Silver Age Hal.) Hal hadn't been an interesting character since Crisis, IMO, so I don't particularly mind that they retired him. However, the way they did it was lame in the extreme. I'm not generally averse to heroes going bad if it makes sense given their already-established character, but nothing Hal ever did indicated that this could happen. Furthermore, they got rid of the GL Corps, which was always a great idea and had frequently been the best part of the GL comic back in the 80's (at least of the several issues of that period that I've read) and also supported its own quarterly mag for some time.

As for Kyle, I agree with Fenris that the character has some interesting possibilities that were left largely untapped through Marz's run, which mostly was (as noted above) story after story which teased and failed to deliver on a return of Hal or of the Corps. The current writer (Judd Winnick, best-known for his stint on "The Real World") has quickly established a better status quo (Jade has a ring again, and Alan is a part of the book on a semi-regular basis; it also looks like John Stewart may be getting his powers back as well), although I'd say he hasn't written anything really gripping in the year or so he's been on the title.

--Cliffy

P.S. Darkseid's son who's shown up in GL is named Grayven.

[Ike Witt]

Somebody asked for a link. This site (http://www.glcorps.org/book.html) is exhaustive. Not to mention exhausting.

[Otto]

I was always a fan of John Stewart (no relation). I was aghast at the political incorrectness of taking the most powerful weapon in the universe from a black guy (who was part of the mythos) and giving it to an unknown brick of a white guy.

Maybe it's just me but I always got the impression that Kyle was Latino. It's been ages since I read a comic book so I have no idea if they've ever said one way or the other but the art always made me think so.

But should John Stewart have a ring just because he's black, if it doesn't serve the story?

I'm very happy about Stewart's role in the TV JL series. I'm hoping the TV show's popularity will result in Rayner dying heroically, tragically, and to my happiness, to be replaced by Stewart.

Speaking of PC, it's pretty obvious the only reason John Stewart is on the TV series is to keep the team from being lily-white (OK, lily-white and lily-pad green, counting J'onn). I realize that all the TV shows are independent of the book continuity, but I'd rather they stick with the actual current heroes instead of dredging up someone who's currently not part of continuity for the sake of appearance. Are there no other currently-active black heroes who could have been used? Same gripe applies to Hawkgirl. She's there only to keep Wonder Woman from being the token female on the team. I'd rather see Black Canary.

[Fenris]

Originally posted by Otto
But should John Stewart have a ring just because he's black, if it doesn't serve the story?
Well, Stewart was created because O'Neill had a guilt-trip about a lack of black characters, but the character (especially under Englehart around the time of the Crisis ...190 or so) really became an interesting, well balanced character in his own right, once the O'Neil "pissed off ghetto-talkin' black street-punk" persona was lost. It was interesting to see a character who'd grown beyond the "Shaft" motif.

Same gripe applies to Hawkgirl. She's there only to keep Wonder Woman from being the token female on the team. I'd rather see Black Canary. [/B]

I could argue that Hawkgirl (Hawkwoman, dammit!) is there because her continuity/backstory has some small semblance of coherence, as opposed to Hawkman's (in the books, at least) and that's why they chose her.

I'd be wrong if I argued that, but I could.

;)

Fenris

[Dave Stewart]

There are no other established black characters in the DCU. There is Black Lightning, who aside from a recent cameo in the Our Worlds at War shambles, hasn't been seen in a long time. There is Steel, who is virtually DC's Iron Man but without the high profile, and who is part of the Superman series. And that is it. Over at Marvel there is Black Panther, Bishop, and Storm (one of Marvel's most popular characters).

I doubt that Kyle Rayner is Latino. Nothing I have read suggests so, other than he has black hair.

[Daniel]

Also, Stewart is one of the Green Lanterns that wasn't used in a previous TV series. They had Kyle in that animated Superman show with a passive mention of Hal (written on a plane Kyle was thrown at), and of course Hal was the GL in Superfriends.

Since they seem dead-set on using Flash as comic relief (ugh . . . really they should have brought in PlasticMan, like the comics did, even though Plas used to have his own show back in the day . . .), that might have played into their decision to choose Stewart over Gardner.

[Lok]

Originally posted by Dave Stewart
There are no other established black characters in the DCU. There is Black Lightning, who aside from a recent cameo in the Our Worlds at War shambles, hasn't been seen in a long time. There is Steel, who is virtually DC's Iron Man but without the high profile, and who is part of the Superman series. And that is it. Over at Marvel there is Black Panther, Bishop, and Storm (one of Marvel's most popular characters).

Both Black Lightning and Steel have had their own series, BL two of them. And Steel is a very big supporting character in the Superman books. So I think they both qualify as being established. And there are a couple of others around also. Like:

Vixen, own series, member of the JLA, member of Suicide Squad
Cyborg, member of the Titans
Hi Opal!
Joto, member of the Titans
The Herald, aka The Hornblower, The Guardian II, member of the Titans.
Bumblebee, member of the Titans
Hero, member of the Ravers
Kid Quantum I, member of the LSH (deceased)
Kid Quantum II, member of the LSH
Tyroc, member of the LSH, retconned away
XS, member of the LSH, descendant of Barry Allen
Bronze Tiger
Dr. Mist, leader of Global Guardians
Mr. Terrific II, leader of JSA


I admit that several of these are very minor characters, some were handled badly, and some are pretty much only used as supporting characters. And there have definitely not been enough black characters in the DC universe, but saying that there are no other established black characters is a mistake. And I am positive I missed one of them that was part of the Guardians, but I don't know the newest members.

Oh, and you missed Falcon and Triathlon of the Avengers over at Marvel.

[Dave Stewart]

I was saying that the DCU was devoid of black characters - just that there were no main ones. (And I hadn't forgotten Falcon and Triathlon at Marvel, but they're hardly main ones either.)

With the exception of Cyborg (who is now a supporting character in the Flash's series), none of those guys are recognisable to the average punter in the street. And look at how they've been treated by writers!

This is a post from the DC JLA board, which is pretty much on target and sums up my view on these things:


See, I never understood some people's need to "relate" to their heroes. I relate to friends and relatives. I get vicarious kicks and fun adventures through super-heroes, no matter what color they are. Personally, I tend to like characters that reflect my beliefs and interests, whatever their color.
That said, I believe the black readers deserve some credit, because they pretty much have to be partially color blind to embrace this medium. If they tried to follow only black characters, they could own every issue of their solo titles, and keep them all in a couple or three longboxes. Ditto Hispanics, who could keep their solo heroes' adventures in a three ring binder. Plus, I have so much sympathy for anyone who tries loyally following a black character...

John Stewart: Angry black man runner-up to Guy Gardner, himself a runner-up to Hal Jordan. After sporadic appearances, takes over the Green Lantern lead for about six months. Then forced to share his book with a taking chipmunk and other space oddities. Loses powers. Wife murdered, and her killer is never brought to justice. Has power restored, only to irresponsibly get a planet blown up. Mentally controlled by evil Guardian. Mentally controlled by Sinestro. Mentally unbalanced. Tries to protect Mosaic world in little promoted, badly drawn solo series, cancelled to make way for Kyle Rayner. Loses Gl power, becomes a Darkstar. Watches as Darkstar Corps. is destroyed by a Kyle Rayner villain in Kyle's book. Becomes crippled. Gets to walk again. Becomes crippled again.

Cyborg: Popular member of New Teen Titans. Co-star in Super Powers cartoon. Gets an action figure. Receives realistic limbs to make him look and fee like a whole man again. Blown to pieces. Presumed dead. Lobotomized. Stuck in ugly armor. Becomes technological elemental(?!?!). Disappears from comics for half a decade. Returns in bid to destroy Earth and it's moon. Becomes liquid metal elastic hero. Dumped for being another stupid elastic hero in a universe full of them. Recently appeared in some Flash comics.

Black Lightning: Wears a afro wig-mask to hide identity. Powered by belt that gives him mild electrical powers. Series mercifully cancelled. Joins Batman and the Outsiders--while still wearing afro-wig and low cut v-neck shirt. Series cancelled. Gets super-powers during Invasion!, over ten years after his original creation, and with no place to showcase them. Gets new ongoing & costume. Series cancelled. Gets passed over in revival of The Outsiders. Gets awful new costume. Guest-stars in big JLA story, where he fails to save mankind in a very public way. Appears in Superman titles, and somehow absorbs a nuclear blast. Unseen since.

Now these are not just second stringers. These are three of the four greatest black characters DC has ever produced. Imagine if these three men were the best comics representations of your race. And again, I'm not even bringing up El Diablo and Vibe, DC's attempts at Latin super-heroes.

I guess what I'm trying to say is people shouldn't get too hung up on race, but they shouldn't begrudge non-whites for wanting at least some quality heroes of color to be treated with care and respect, either.



So, for these reasons, I'm glad that John Stewart is getting a shot on TV.

[Fiver]

Sheesh. Corporate storylines. Don't you see why I abandoned the supers for the much more personal, coherent storylines in the indies, Fenris? Dan Clowes would never recast David Boring under editorial decree. No one will ever tell Jaime Hernandez to stop drawing Maggie so fat.

What makes good comics? It's all about the story and the characters, man, and you can't find good ones in the supers anymore. Except in the ABC books, but there again, one man, one vision.

[Dave Stewart]

Yeah, Alan Moore's ABC stuff is good. I'm enjoying Top 10.

[Cliffy]

Originally posted by Fiver
What makes good comics? It's all about the story and the characters, man, and you can't find good ones in the supers anymore.

Not true -- you just have to look under the radar a bit. Currently one of my favorite books is DC's Harley Quinn -- it's unpredictable, funny, touching, and at times really really sad. The somewhat recently cancelled Hourman was fantastic, too.

--Cliffy

[AtomicDog]

There was a comic in the 70's called the Secret Society Of Super Villians. In it was a Star Sapphire who had a French accent and who was not Carol Ferris. As far as I know, her origin was never explained. Who was she and where the hell did she come from?

[rjung]

Originally posted by Fiver
What makes good comics? It's all about the story and the characters, man, and you can't find good ones in the supers anymore. Except in the ABC books, but there again, one man, one vision.
Four words for ya: Kurt Busiek's Astro City

Now if only it could get back on a regular schedule...

[Dave Stewart]

Originally posted by AtomicDog
There was a comic in the 70's called the Secret Society Of Super Villians. In it was a Star Sapphire who had a French accent and who was not Carol Ferris. As far as I know, her origin was never explained. Who was she and where the hell did she come from?

As far as I know she was never explained.

[tracer]

Fenris wrote:

Anyway, in an abysmal 3-issue story arc, Hal goes insane and kills a bunch of the Green Lantern Corps (stealing their rings as he went, so he had about 20 rings), killing the Guardians, and breaking the central power battery in an effort to bring Coast City back from the dead.
I think I remember reading this, in one of the rare instances of my adolescence when I read DC comics. (I read them on the newsstands, I didn't actually buy them. :p )

I remember Hal Jordan getting in this ring-to-ring duel with a Green Lantern that looked like a big bouncy ball with stubby little arms and legs. Hal was making a very big deal out of the fact that the ring's normal vulnerability to the color yellow was not, in fact, a "necessary" flaw, but had been used by the Guardians as a means of controlling the Green Lantern Corps. The Guardians had apparently "always" been capable of making a ring that worked just fine against yellow things, and in fact Hal apparently got his hands on a prototype of one of these "improved" rings. (You could tell the ring was special because it had a rectangular base, while a "normal" Green Lantern ring had a round base.)

I don't recall reading anything about reviving Coast City, though.

[Lok]

Originally posted by Dave Stewart
I was saying that the DCU was devoid of black characters - just that there were no main ones. (And I hadn't forgotten Falcon and Triathlon at Marvel, but they're hardly main ones either.)
We have different definitions of established. When I hear that, I think of someone who has been around for a few years, with a backstory and a history. You apparently mean someone that is recognizable by the public at large?

With the exception of Cyborg (who is now a supporting character in the Flash's series), none of those guys are recognisable to the average punter in the street. And look at how they've been treated by writers!
When did Cyborg join the Flash cast? After issue #179? I haven't seen him there up to that point. As for the list being recognisable to the average person on the street, John Steward doesn't even meet that criteria. The average person would see him and say, "I thought the guy with the green ring was white."

Most people don't know the history of the GLC, Hal Jordan, Guy Gardner, John Stewart, or Kyle Rayner. Their only exposure is SuperFriends reruns and a rare story on the news. Most of the DC universe is unknown to the average person.

This is a post from the DC JLA board, which is pretty much on target and sums up my view on these things:
Aside from a few factual errors, the quote you posted made some good points. There certainly should be more heroes of different races and they should be handled better. And some of them are. Steel and his niece in the Superman books (Handled better than the last part of his book), and Mr. Terrific and J.J. Thunder in the JSA are all multi-dimensional with nice storylines. Things aren't perfect, but they are improving.

So, for these reasons, I'm glad that John Stewart is getting a shot on TV.
I am not upset about that. It gets more of the character's history out for more people to see and it increases the variations available for stories and plots. If only I was able to watch the show. :(

Originally posted by rjung
Four words for ya: Kurt Busiek's Astro City

Now if only it could get back on a regular schedule...
Now that they have figured out what is wrong with Kurt and he is getting the proper treatment, it is starting to look like things will improve in that area.

Lok

[tracer]

Lok wrote:

There certainly should be more heroes of different races and they should be handled better.
They could always bring back Black Vulcan, Samurai, and Apache Chief. :rolleyes:

[Lok]

Originally posted by tracer
Lok wrote:

There certainly should be more heroes of different races and they should be handled better.
They could always bring back Black Vulcan, Samurai, and Apache Chief. :rolleyes:
Apparently you missed the part where I said they should be handled better. :)

Lok

[tracer]

What, are you saying that not all Apache tribesmen can grow to 50 feet tall by saying "Inekchok!"? ;)

[Lok]

Originally posted by tracer
What, are you saying that not all Apache tribesmen can grow to 50 feet tall by saying "Inekchok!"? ;)
Well, the few Apache I have met didn't do any growing. Then again, none of them ever said "Inekchok!" when I was around. :D

Lok