Awwright I give up awready. What's a diva?

[Boris B]

I hear this term thrown around all the time. Merriam-Webster was no help. A goddess? A goddess of what?

I thought a diva was a singer of a specific kind of music, since I saw the movie Diva and can't remember the music. Since then nearly every famous female has been referred to as a diva at least once.

En Vogue even came out with an album called Funky Divas if I remember correctly. This indicates that they are the patron deities of strong odors. I wouldna thought you'd need more than one.

So really, does "diva" mean something other than "female celebrity"? Is Donna Shalala a diva? Sarah Ferguson? Martha Stewart?

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- Boris B, Hellacious Ornithologist

[Bricker]

In the world of opera, a diva is the principal female singer of a company... not just the lead in a particular production, but the leading lady of the company, almost always cast as the female lead in whatever production is underway.

Because certain personality traits stereotypically seem to attach themselves to persons occupying this coveted position, a secondary meaning is an extremely vain, sensitive, or conceited individual.

So one may literally be a diva, which is a noteworthy accomplishment, or one may merely act like a diva, which garners no praise at all.

- Rick

[TubaDiva]

Am I supposed to answer this? :)

your humble TubaDiva

[tomndebb]

I always thought that diva was the third declension neter plural of sofa.

[RTA]

Deva (day-vuh) God, Goddess - Sanskrit

An early root word of proto-Indo-European languages, now seen in words like divine etc.

[tomndebb]

neuter plural

[pluto]

So one may literally be a diva

I don't think so. One may be called a diva, an amazingly hyperbolic title that only the bizarre world of opera could come up with, but actually be one?


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I thought of a clever new sig line last night, but I forgot it when I woke up this morning.

[Bricker]

I don't think so. One may be called a diva, an amazingly hyperbolic title that only the bizarre world of opera could come up with, but actually be one?

I beg your pardon, but I believe you are mistaken. A diva is, quite literally, the prima donna -- that is, the first lady of the company.

Both diva and prima donna are terms that have acquired secondary, hyperbolic, and most certainly perjorative meanings associated with the negative traits apparently exhibited by the women upon whom this honor is conferred.

However, I stand by my original point: that it is quite possible to literally be a diva, simply by being the leading lady of a particular opera company.

To confirm this, I have checked the on-line dictionary (http://www.m-w.com) operated by Merriam-Webster. They define diva as a synonym for prima donna, and define prima donna as "1 : a principal female singer in an opera or concert organization; 2 : an extremely sensitive, vain, or undisciplined person."

- Rick

[Northern Piper]

so our humble TubaDiva must be a real virtuosa on the tuba, since the secondary meaning obviously does not apply.

[PunditLisa]

In the *nice* sense, it means someone who commands respect. Aretha Franklin, for example.

In the *street* sense, it means a bitch. Mariah Carey, for example.

Clear as mud?

[C K Dexter Haven]

A diva is a person in Boston who leaps from a springboard headfirst into a swimming pool.

[mouthbreather]

Well, I watched a little bit of VH1 last night, and found the answer to your question. Apparently, a diva is [gag reflex]Mariah Carey, Celine Dion, Brandy, or Leanne Rhymes [/gag reflex]

[pluto]

Bricker --

My disagreement is not over whether opera singers are called divas, it is over what the word literally means.

If you described me as a baboon, you could be referring to any number of character traits you dislike in me. But if you said that I was literally a baboon you would be stating that I was actually, truly a member of a species of primates that live in Africa.

So for someone to literally be a diva they would have to truly, actually be a goddess. I'm not disagreeing that the best opera singers are deserving of high praise, but I don't know of any that are actually deities.

I do find the title a little, um, inflated, but the world of opera is a different world, one that I'm not a part of. Call them divas if you like but don't insist they are literally divas.


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I thought of a clever new sig line last night, but I forgot it when I woke up this morning.

[Bricker]

LOL! Well, fortunately for me, you stopped just before I ran out of arguments! :)

I agree with your professor (unless the spectators had bladder control problems en masse) that the spectators did not literally flood the field. And it's very true that literally is often used as emphasis when it has no business being in the sentence.

In this instance, though, I felt confident that literally was... er.... literally correct. :)

Cheers,
Rick

[Elmer J. Fudd]

I thought a diva was an Italian pervert?

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Elmer J. Fudd,
Millionaire.
I own a mansion and a yacht.

[aviddiva]

Well, I guess I had better weigh in here.
I picked the "title" because I liked it: I like the overblown hyperbole of it, and thought it was fitting for an online message board in which people refer to themselves variously as Satan, the smallest planet in our solar system or Goofy's dog, GodlyGuy, Archangel, Homer (Simpson, I hope), or a bitchin' Cary Grant character.

I also like palindromes, and owe this particular one to Bill Richardson, B.C. author and CBC radio host, who suggested it in his excellent Scorned and Beloved: Dead of Winter Meetings with Canadian Eccentrics, (1998).

PunditLisa:
In the *nice* sense, it means someone who commands respect. Aretha Franklin, for example.

In the *street* sense, it means a bitch. Mariah Carey, for example.

Except for any similarities to Mariah Carey (who looks like nothing so much as a slutty carebear on her newest cd cover), I aspire to both designations.

And remember, dictionaries describe the ways we use words/language; their job is not to prescribe or proscribe various uses or meanings. If enough people agree a word means something, that's what it means, and next year's dictionary will record that.


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...a ham, a jar, a maharaja.

[Boris B]

Hey avid, I like your sig line, but I can't tell if it's a joke palindrome, like Bolton.
Who's the Carey Grant character and who's he bitchin' at? (Only the first part of that question was serious.)

[Ukulele Ike]

C.K. Dexter Haven was the Cary Grant character in THE PHILADELPHIA STORY.

You have to say it in a drunk Jimmy Stewart voice for the full effect..."Seee...Kay...Deskter...Haven."

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Uke

[Ukulele Ike]

Of course, Grant also played the character "Ukulele Ike" in the immortal BROADWAY SUPERVIXENS OF 1934, a role for which he was nominated for four Oscars and a Grammy.

[Bricker]

And remember, dictionaries describe the ways we use words/language; their job is not to prescribe or proscribe various uses or meanings. If enough people agree a word means something, that's what it means, and next year's dictionary will record that.

True... but if nothing else, I hope you aree that a dictionary cite constitutes prima facie evidence, or a rebuttable presumption, that a word means what's claimed. If not, then we have nothing but gratuitous assertions upon which to rely, and as my debate teacher was ound of repeating, "A gratuitous assertion may be equally gratuitously denied."

...a ham, a jar, a maharaja.

Um... you sure it isn't, "...a jar, a ham, a maharaja?"

Cheers,
Rick

[aviddiva]

Poop. Ya got me. Didn't catch it in time.


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Egad! Nab a bandage!

[Boris B]

Shouldn't that be, "Dage! Nab a bandage!"?

[Alphagene]

BROADWAY SUPERVIXENS OF 1934

Ah yes, the first of many Cary Grant - Russ Meyer collaborations.

Mmmm... Tura Satana.

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If I wanted smoke blown up my ass, I'd be at home with a pack of cigarettes and a short length of hose.

[Lord Jim]

No, Boris, based on the other one, wouldn't it have been: Nab, Egad! A bandage!

[Bricker]

Pluto:

I think that the confusion here rests on both the meaning of the word literally and of the word diva.

I would note, parenthetically, that you are a member of a species of primates that live in Africa. I certainly agree that you are not literally a baboon, of course.

If the only meaning of "diva" is "goddess," and opera culture had chosen to call their leading ladies divas because of that, then I would agree completely with you.

But -- as you might expect, I don't agree with that premise. The origin of the word is different than its meaning; while it derives from the feminine form of divus, from which we also get divine, the current, preferred meaning of the word is "a leading woman singer, esp. in opera" (Webster's New World Dictionary, Second College Edition).

I contend that since the plain meaning of the word is "a leading woman singer," we are perfectly entitled to claim that someone is, literally, a leading woman singer, and, therefore, literally, a diva.

Does my argument fail on the meaning of literally? Literally means "word for word; not imaginatively or figuratively," (ibid).

There is, then, no figure of speech used in describing a leading woman singer as a diva, since that is the plain and ordinary meaning of the word.

Cheers,
Rick

[pluto]

I'll stop arguing, even though I'm right! :)

I see your point. In fact, I saw your point right off the bat but I still feel that using the term literally forces us back to the original meaning of the word. However, I think we've reached a fine point of usage and can agree to disagree with honor on both sides.

My college English professor used an example where a writer described a group of spectators who "literally flooded the field". I thought that was a pretty good one.

I am chagrined that I used a definition of baboon that didn't exclude my own personal species. I started to mention tails and muzzles but I edited the sentence on the fly and you saw the result. I should have said an African primate that is not a chimpanzee!



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He that questioneth much shall learn much, and content much; but especially if he apply his questions to the skill of the persons whom he asketh; for he shall give them occasion to please themselves in speaking, and himself shall continually gather knowledge. But let his questions not be troublesome, for that is fit for a poser; and let him be sure to leave other men their turns to speak.
Francis Bacon

[Boris B]

Hey, avid, we're just kidding. If you don't start laughing at my jokes I'm going to go back to Notlob.

[aviddiva]

ah, ... ha.

[John W. Kennedy]

A: It's Italian for goddess -- also opera singer, also film star.

B: Another meaning it has acquired in English is "a female entertainer with a passionate following among gay men." e.g., Judy Garland, Marlene Dietrich, or Bette Midler. (Why Mira Furlan isn't on the list I do not understand.)

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John W. Kennedy
"Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays."
-- Charles Williams

[aviddiva]

The other one was a mistake, o.k.? Bricker was correct, it should have been
"a jar, a ham, a maharaja." The a before maharaja is the middle of the palindrome.
In "Egad! Nab a bandage," the a before bandage is the middle. e-g-a-d-n-a-b goes in that order before the -a- and the reverse after it. I ignore punctuation in palindromes.