Biggest Mistake in History??

[Illuvatar]

What do you think was the biggest mistake in history?.. whether it was good or bad.

What I can remember at the moment is England overtaxing the american colonies without giving them representation in their parliament. If they did this then England would have ruled the entire Earth now. But they screwed up REAL bad.

[Crusoe]

A common choice is Hitler's decision to invade Russia, or at least his sense of timing in doing so.

[Why A Duck]

"Hmmm, let's see... Yup, I think I 'll release Bararabas. That's the ticket."


(or "welease woger" for you purists).

[jjimm]

There are many who would say that the British Empire itself was a mistake.

I would imagine that the British Empire would have collapsed anyway, and that the United States would have sought independence anyway too, though maybe not at that precise time.

If you're talking mistakes in the last century, I would rate the following as pretty bad: invading Poland; the Holocaust; the genocide of the Armenians; assassinating the Archduke Ferdinand; the Great Leap Forward; the Cultural Revolution; the manner in which the state of Israel was set up; Apartheid.

Really and truly, though, the question doesn't really have any answer, as history is a catalogue of randomness.

[Una Persson]

It can be argued that there were several mistakes very, very early in the Roman Empire that neutered the Senate, and turned the Empire down its course of decline. Of course, it can also be argued whether or not an Empire of that size with that relatively low level of technology could support a representative government of any sort.

So, instead of that...Communism?

The poor final wording of the Second Amendment (which will eventually lead to people believing that it does not confer an individual right, allowing a totalitarian hereditary liberal empire to rise, which will crush the free society under its bloody jack-booted heel, turning us all into drugged meat-puppets and slaves of the New World Order)?

Passing over Michael Jordan in the draft?

[Crusoe]

I'm not sure communism per se counts as a terrible mistake. The form it took in Russia after 1917 certainly, but blaming Marx for that seems a bit harsh. Can we blame thinkers for the way their ideas turned out when implemented by others? (serious question)

[Philster]

Boston Red Sox trade Babe Ruth for an old glove and 37 cents.

Well, maybe not all of history, but that pretty much clears up the baseball end of things.

[Philster]

Well, seriously, it has to be Man being duped into believing in God and organizing religion as a part of that belief.

At a minimum, organizing religions is gotta be the biggest mistake....ever.

[Wartime Consigliori]

Eating the apple.

[Zebra]

Hey those hairy guys aren't doing too well.

Lets give them one of our big black rectangles.

[Duke]

Zebra: <snigger>

In my field of study (the English Reformation) the biggest mistake would be when Holy Roman Emperor dashed off that memo to Rome: "Your Holiness, don't let that King Hank get an annulment! Just let him fool around with mistresses, like every other monarch does!"

[dono]

Illuvatar, I'd recommend Tuchman's The March of Folly for her take on your question. One of the follies she examines is the British response to the American rebellion.

[Gatopescado]

"I do."

[RickJay]

I would vote for the various decisions that were made to declare war at the start of World War I to be, collectively, the single worst decision of all time. The first World War killed ten or fifteen million people for basically no reason at all, set the social development of civilization back several decades, led to the rise of the murderous ideologies of Communism and fascism, and was the direct cause of the SECOND World War. I would guess that the First World War ultimately caused a hundred million deaths at least, unimaginable levels of material loss, and human suffering to match all the other human suffering in the history of our species.

[Duke]

Holy Roman Emperor Charles V. Charles V. Charlie Five.

My dissertation got sent back for less grievous omissions.

[ResIpsaLoquitor]

I don't know if this was the "biggest," but it's up there. I remember learning in my Civil War class in high school about how General McClellan (who I believe was running the Union Army before Grant) accidentally stumbled across General Lee's marching orders. He thought they were a hoax and tossed them. Thus, the Civil War arguably went on two or three years longer than it could have.

I know I'm missing some bits of the story...any historians want to elaborate it?

[Labtrash]

Game six...1986...Bill Buckner....'nuff said.

[Big Kahuna Burger]

The Mongols turning back at the gates of Vienna. I can imagine them saying "Europe, who needs it?"

[bup]

Napoleon's march to Moscow.

He left with 400,000, got to an abandoned city, and by the time he got home had only 10,000 soldiers left.

And it's a mistake by anybody's definition - it was one person choosing to do something that had horrific results.

[A Monkey With a Gun]

In 415 Cyril, the Patriarch of Christianity (kind of like the pope), ordered that all Jews be expelled from Alexandria.

Why is this the biggest mistake of all time? The Roman prefect of Alexandria disagreed with the decision. Fighting began between the Church and State and the Library of Alexandria was destroyed in the process. It had housed the equivalent of more than 100,000 books and most of the knowledge of the ancient world. Its destruction probably delayed the development of modern western science and culture more than ten centuries.

[cmkeller]

Neville Chamberlain's handing the Sudetenland to Hitler.

"Oh, he'll be fine once he has this little patch of land."

Boy, it would have been ironic if he had died in the Blitz.

[Jackknifed Juggernaut]

Originally posted by labtrash
Game six...1986...Bill Buckner....'nuff said.

Nah. The Sox had already choked by that point by allowing the Mets to tie the game. They would've had very little chance even had BB made the play.

[rjung]

Maybe not the biggest, but the majority ruling in Gore v. Bush deserves mention. Regardless of your political views, the legal gaffes and semi-truck-sized loopholes in that thing should have gotten Scalia et al laughed out of the courtroom.

"Hey, I'm suddenly in favor of the equal protection clause, even though I was opposed to its use in the previous three thousand other cases that came before the court! But maybe I'll change my mind again after this ruling is over..."

[DAVEW0071]

When Mr. Hitler said to Mrs. Hitler, "Let's go upstairs, honey, I'm feeling saucy tonight."

[ringmaster]

Eating the apple.

[TheLoadedDog]

I'm not sure of the date, or who the emperor was, but China turned inwards on herself and withdrew funding from ship building and exploration, just as the Spanish, Portuguese, and others were doing the exact opposite.

[JThunder]

Originally posted by Crusoe
A common choice is Hitler's decision to invade Russia, or at least his sense of timing in doing so.
Nah. His biggest mistake was keeping Colonel Klink in command.

[CaptMurdock]

Originally posted by JThunder

Nah. His biggest mistake was keeping Colonel Klink in command.

Actually, he should have given up politics and concentrated on his writing. "Boy, that Mein Kampf sold like weinerschnitzel, for something I dashed off in the klink! I wonder...if I really got serious about writing..."

See Norman Spinrad's The Iron Dream for a fairly good work on this premise.
;j

[Aceospades]

my parents desiding that they wanted more children after me.

[Grim_Beaker]

Haha! You fool! I switched goblets with you when your back was turned! ....

[Boyo Jim]

I kind of like the idea that the Big Bang was somebody else's biggest, and last, mistake.

[Odesio]

Originally posted by Crusoe
I'm not sure communism per se counts as a terrible mistake. The form it took in Russia after 1917 certainly, but blaming Marx for that seems a bit harsh. Can we blame thinkers for the way their ideas turned out when implemented by others? (serious question)

When the idea is bogus to begin with, sure.

Marc

[Jurhael]

Originally posted by MGibson


When the idea is bogus to begin with, sure.

Marc

The idea was hardly "bogus". But I guess it's natural for those who support an established system be to automatically against alternative, new ideas.

Being against exploitation! The HORROR! God forbid ANYONE should EVER support ANYTHING other than what's generally believed.

And before anyone starts shooting their mouth off about the Soviet Union, Cuba and China, do bear in mind that I don't support such regiemes. But, given that nearly every single democratically elected SOCIALIST or reformist was overthrown with ease and replaced with Capitalist dictatorships, it's hard NOT to be authoritarian.

Mistake? Of course. But the only other option was to be infiltrated and overthrown from within by much more POWERFUL and wealthy enemies.

There was a lot wrong with Communism and I'm no fan of Soviet Communism, Maoism or Castroism. But don't assume for a second that makes me a supporter of Capitalism. Gee, isn't that irritating to the "with us or against us" high school mentality on BOTH SIDES!

As for mistakes, most of them have already been mentioned.

[AHunter3]

The idea was hardly "bogus". But I guess it's natural for those who support an established system be to automatically against alternative, new ideas.

Being against exploitation! The HORROR! God forbid ANYONE should EVER support ANYTHING other than what's generally believed.



Marxist analysis contains an excellent and accurate indictment of the shortcomings of capitalist economies of his day, many of which are applicable to modern capitalist social systems.

That doesn't lend Marxist theory one wooden nickel's worth of credibility.

The John Birch Society once put out a pamphlet or brochure titled None Dare Call it Conspiracy, which contained a very clear and incisive critique of the traditional notions of the political "right" and the political "left". My dismissal of the John Birchers as a bunch of nuts does not in any way mean that this little political analysis is not accurate and valid.

[/hijack participation]

Yo, Zebra! --

Hey those hairy guys aren't doing too well.

Lets give them one of our big black rectangles.

Mind explaining that one a bit further? I'm feeling a bit wooshed here...

[Tuckerfan]

Hey those hairy guys aren't doing too well.

Lets give them one of our big black rectangles.



Mind explaining that one a bit further? I'm feeling a bit wooshed here...

Whatsa matter? You never seen 2001 before? You know with the monoliths? Jeeze you kids today!

[Odesio]

Originally posted by Jurhael


The idea was hardly "bogus". But I guess it's natural for those who support an established system be to automatically against alternative, new ideas.


REVELATION!! I suddenly understand why you "question" those who would spend a large amount of money on a meal.


Marc

[sleestak]

Originally posted by Jurhael


The idea was hardly "bogus". But I guess it's natural for those who support an established system be to automatically against alternative, new ideas.

Being against exploitation! The HORROR! God forbid ANYONE should EVER support ANYTHING other than what's generally believed.

And before anyone starts shooting their mouth off about the Soviet Union, Cuba and China, do bear in mind that I don't support such regiemes. But, given that nearly every single democratically elected SOCIALIST or reformist was overthrown with ease and replaced with Capitalist dictatorships, it's hard NOT to be authoritarian.

Mistake? Of course. But the only other option was to be infiltrated and overthrown from within by much more POWERFUL and wealthy enemies.

There was a lot wrong with Communism and I'm no fan of Soviet Communism, Maoism or Castroism. But don't assume for a second that makes me a supporter of Capitalism. Gee, isn't that irritating to the "with us or against us" high school mentality on BOTH SIDES!

As for mistakes, most of them have already been mentioned.

Hmm, ok, so you sorta support Communism and hate Capitalism? What exactly do you believe? If you have a better answer than Capitalism I'd love to hear it (And I mean that). Something that works in the real world, not theory.

Communism works in theory, if and it is a huge if, everyone agrees and works hard. Since reality doesn't work that way the only way for Communism to work is through the power of the gun. And, as history shows, that will only work for so long. At the same time the US, as far as I know, has the longest form of government in the world.

And, please describe what you mean by "Capitalist dictatorships". If you mean the US I'd like you to go to true dictatorships and question their policies. I wonder how long you would last. Best guess, not long.

Slee

[Una Persson]

Originally posted by Beeblebrox
In 415 Cyril, the Patriarch of Christianity (kind of like the pope), ordered that all Jews be expelled from Alexandria...the Library of Alexandria was destroyed in the process.
Actually, in all seriousness, this is a pretty good candidate for biggest mistake. I'm changing my vote.

[bernse]

I saw a show some years ago on this subject. One of them in particular stuck out. In 1917 (I think) a British Sniper had a German corporal in his sights. He was ready to shoot but didn't because he saw he was injured. It was Adolf Hitler in his sights.

As a side, when Hitler came to power in 33, one of the things he did was send that sniper a thank-you and I believe some sort of friendship medal or something....

[Denis]

I've gotta say: The biggest mistake in history (and the US is still suffering from it) is the failure of our European forefathers to utterly exterminate the Puritans and their ilk rather than sending them to the New World. From my own point of view, so much time, money, and human effort could be better spent in the good ol' US of A if only there was a complete absense of fundies.

When I become President, I'm gonna severely chastise Europe for the lapse of it's preceeding generations by sending Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Ernest Angley (well, maybe not Ernie, he's entertaining) and their "flocks" over there permanently! :D

[BobT]

Originally posted by Jackknifed Juggernaut


Nah. The Sox had already choked by that point by allowing the Mets to tie the game. They would've had very little chance even had BB made the play.

I beg to differ. If the game continued, the Red Sox would have had an excellent chance to win. The Mets had used up all of their good pitchers earlier in the game. They were down to Doug Sisk. The Red Sox still would have had Bob Stanley pitching, who really didn't do that bad of a job except for the wild pitch ... and failing to cover first base. ...

[Odesio]

Originally posted by bernse
I saw a show some years ago on this subject. One of them in particular stuck out. In 1917 (I think) a British Sniper had a German corporal in his sights. He was ready to shoot but didn't because he saw he was injured. It was Adolf Hitler in his sights.

As a side, when Hitler came to power in 33, one of the things he did was send that sniper a thank-you and I believe some sort of friendship medal or something....

I'm going to need some sort of cite for this because I really find this story doubtful at best. How did the sniper know he was aiming for Adolph Hitler? How did Adolph Hitler know that the sniper had a bead on him? How did he know who the sniper was?

Marc

[DAVEW0071]

Originally posted by Anthracite

Actually, in all seriousness, this is a pretty good candidate for biggest mistake. I'm changing my vote. Yeah, I'm with you. All that knowledge lost. What a tragedy.

[bernse]

Originally posted by MGibson


I'm going to need some sort of cite for this because I really find this story doubtful at best. How did the sniper know he was aiming for Adolph Hitler? How did Adolph Hitler know that the sniper had a bead on him? How did he know who the sniper was?

Marc

I'll see if I can dig anything up on the net. As I mentioned, I saw it on TV years ago, so it had to be true, right? :)

If I find something I'll post it.

[David Simmons]

Originally posted by bernse
I saw a show some years ago on this subject. One of them in particular stuck out. In 1917 (I think) a British Sniper had a German corporal in his sights. He was ready to shoot but didn't because he saw he was injured. It was Adolf Hitler in his sights.

As a side, when Hitler came to power in 33, one of the things he did was send that sniper a thank-you and I believe some sort of friendship medal or something....

You must have seen an unknown episode of The Twilight Zone.

Some things about snipers. They are well concealed, so very few people see them. If they don't shoot at you, you never know it. Quite frequently if they do shoot at you you don't know it either.

[happyheathen]

Constantine's conversion to Christianity.

"Yeah, I'll put the largest political/military machine known behind a religion with MAJOR expansionist ideas..."

THEN came the destruction of Alexandria...

[kanicbird]

Clinton giving the Chinese missle orbiting technology is up there.

[Guinastasia]

Capitalist dictators?

Augusto Pinochet
Anastacio Somoza
Juan Peron

Need I go on?

[Mofo Rising]

All decisions that eventually led to the destruction of the space program after the moon landing.

Okay, we've explored pretty much the whole world. Let's take an historically expansionsist species one escape from turning destructively inwards on itself from mismanagement and lack of forsight. I see a good future ahead of us, don't you?

[5 time champ]

Um, what is generally considered to be one of the most brilliant tactical successes ever, and worst strategic blunder a nation ever committed-- that is, of course, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, December 7, 1941.

[Rodd Hill]

Ishtar.

[capacitor]

When America gradually became a 'corporacracy'.

[Estilicon]

For me it's the unwillingness of the occidental europeans to help the Eastern Roman Empire. Had they done that they would have had a base, from where to defend Europe against the Turkish threat. The balkans wouldn't be then such a mess and perhaps world war I and II could have been avoided

[MrO]

Originally posted by happyheathen
Constantine's conversion to Christianity.

"Yeah, I'll put the largest political/military machine known behind a religion with MAJOR expansionist ideas..."

I'll second this, although if it hadn't been for the advent of organized religion in general, this would be a moot point, so Philster has a good point too.

From a strictly American point of view, I'd say the enslavement of Africans. I guess "mistake" is not exactly the right word here, but I'd say it's easily the wrongest thing in America's history. (Yes, "wrongest" is a word. I looked it up.)

[Ace_Face]

I would argue it was China's mysterious withdrawl from seapower and ocean trade in the 15th century -- a time when they were still ahead of Europeans and poised for world domination, had they desired.

[glee]

Originally posted by sleestak
At the same time the US, as far as I know, has the longest form of government in the world.


Um, did you mean this how it reads? Here in the UK, we were last invaded approximately 936 years ago. We've had a Monarchy since then (OK, I admit Oliver Cromwell was an interruption, but he did work through Parliament).

I'm pretty sure somewhere (Iceland?) has a older Parliament than that.

[glee]

As for the biggest business mistake, here are 3 good candidates. By coincidence, they all involve IBM.

First, when IBM wanted to discuss making their first ever PC they needed an operating system. The first guy they visited was out surfing. So they tried another unknown bloke. He was called Bill Gates...

At that meeting IBM could have offered Bill a flat fee. Instead they offered him licensing rights on every copy of the operating system. This led to Microsoft making some profits...

I also understand that IBM turned down a process to copy documents. Instead it was taken up by a company called Xerox...

[ftg]

Hasdrubal, brother of Hanibal, sent a message to his brother to coordinate the meeting up of their two armies. Both armies combined would have wiped the two Roman armies they faced. End of Rome, no Empire, etc. The messenger got caught less than mile from Hannibal's lines. The two Roman armies instead joined up and wiped Hasdrubal. From then on, Hannibal could no longer threaten Rome. Beginning of the end of the 2nd Punic War.

If he had only encoded the message or otherwise hid it.

And what have the Romans ever given us? Besides the sanitation... and the roads ....

Then there's Harald Haraade's listening to the King of England's idiot brother and deciding to invade England, 2 weeks before William.

For the US: the Virginia colonists deciding to import slaves. A bad decision for all involved.

[Mondeo]

I'd have to agree with pearl harbor

[casdave]

Beeblebrox
[quote]
In 415 Cyril, the Patriarch of Christianity (kind of like the pope), ordered that all Jews be expelled from Alexandria.
Why is this the biggest mistake of all time? The Roman prefect of Alexandria disagreed with the decision. Fighting began between the Church and State and the Library of Alexandria was destroyed in the process. It had housed the equivalent of more than 100,000 books and most of the knowledge of the ancient world. Its destruction probably delayed the development of modern western science and culture more than ten centuries.

[quote]

Followed by Anthracite agreeing.

I concur to such an extent that the post is worth quoting in its entirety.

For some idea of the effect of this try reading about another ancient work written by Archimedes

http://www.thewalters.org/archimedes/frame.html

The Archimedes Palimpcest was 'cleaned' so that it could be overwritten by religious text and was lost soon afterwards for centuries.

What is so special about this text is that it is Archimedes own account of his thinking processes, a method of logic as it were, and amongst its pages it has emerged that Archimedes was the first person ever to use the concept of infinity as a real number, and the use of an infinate number of sides(of a circle) to deduce Pi to several decimal places ie 31/7 This approximation is good enough for many engineering applications today.

Merely the use of his method would have been very significant, let alone the contents of his work.

He also used the idea of an infinate number of slices through a solid to determine its volume and also the idea that this would tend to a limit, which is familiar to any student of higher math and especially to engineers.

Had this text been available to the intellectuals during the Rennaissance it is entirely likely that our civilisation would have achieved what we have done today, but a century or more sooner.

This is just one book, what other marvels were lost when the library at Alexandria was destroyed.

[Kyuzo]

Originally posted by glee

First, when IBM wanted to discuss making their first ever PC they needed an operating system. The first guy they visited was out surfing. So they tried another unknown bloke. He was called Bill Gates...


I guess that's the Paul Harvey version of the story. You might want to read a little more about Gary Kildall the "first guy" who wrote the first operating system (CP/M), his company, and what really happened that day.

Kildall, his wife, and their lawyer definitely made a huge mistake, but it wasn't as cut and dried as that makes it sound.

Originally posted by glee

At that meeting IBM could have offered Bill a flat fee. Instead they offered him licensing rights on every copy of the operating system.

Not true. As Gates himself says:
Triumph of the Nerds: The Transcripts, Part II (http://www.pbs.org/nerds/part2.html)
...the deal we had with IBM, because they had a fixed fee er, we got about $80,000 - we got some other money for some special work we did er, but no royalty from them.

You'll notice that IBM did in fact pay Microsoft only a flat fee for the reverse engineered version of CP/M.

What Microsoft made its money on was licenses on clones of the IBM machines. Not something IBM specifically offered him.

I tend to agree that the destruction of the library of Alexandria was the biggest mistake in history.

[1kBR Kid]

Originally posted by rjung
Maybe not the biggest, but the majority ruling in Gore v. Bush deserves mention. ..." FOR THE LOVE OF GOD would you get over it? I really think you need professional help for this problem of yours.

[Zebra]

'Hey! Let's use violence to settle disputes!'






[extremely heavy sigh]

[rjung]

Originally posted by 1kBR Kid
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD would you get over it?
Hey, we're talking about a political coup in my favorite country on the planet, here. It's not something trivial to "get over."

But check back with me in 2005. ;)

[Rubicon]

rjung, even if you believe that the ruling was a "mistake", you have to believe that we are better off for it...I'm pretty sure the Bearded One himself (Gore, not Bin Laden, although I see the similarity) would agree.


Future biggest mistake: "First strike" in attempt to "win" nuclear war.

Modern biggest mistake: Leaving Europe a mess after World War I (all due respect to the Forgiving Sniper in the earlier post).

All-time biggest mistake: When the first tribe broke into two separate and competing tribes.

Funniest biggest mistake: William Shatner's and Leonard Nimoy's albums.

Personal biggest mistake: Leaving Dad's Penthouse in the bathroom instead of returning it to Top-Secret Underbed Lair.

Biggest cultural mistake: Permitting the first hygeine advert on television, leading directly to 1980s on-air discussions of "feeling fresh" and the current ubiquitous radio ads for penis-lengthening creams and pills. Not that I need them.

Biggest mistake that turned out OK in the end (tie): Accidental discoveries of photography and penecillin.

Biggest highly foreseeable mistake: No, seriously, I think we can win a land war in Asia (multiple contributors).

Biggest mistake almost (but not) made: Playboy's 1962 attempt to lock up Liz Taylor for a forty year layout-per-year contract.

[Tranquilis]

Originally posted by 5 time champ
Um, what is generally considered to be one of the most brilliant tactical successes ever, and worst strategic blunder a nation ever committed-- that is, of course, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, December 7, 1941.
Not the biggest ever... It was quickly followed by one far worse: Hitler declaring war on the US. Had he kept his trap shut, or better yet, condemed the attack and let the Japanese take their beating, he'd have effectively removed the US from the European conflict for three or four years. With America being royally pissed with Japan, Roosevelt's desire to intervene in the European war, first, would've been pushed to the sidelines on a wave of righteous anger. Hitler'd have had enough time to force Britain to a negotiated peace, leaving him a much more free hand in Russia, where Germany might have achieved stalemate, and a defacto control over Europe.

I'm still voting for the burning of the Library at Alexandria as the biggest mistake of all time, though.

[rjung]

Originally posted by Rubicon
rjung, even if you believe that the ruling was a "mistake", you have to believe that we are better off for it...
Don't make assumptions. :)

And don't mistake a high popularity rating for competence. Carrot Top could've been President on 9/11/2001 and gotten a 94% approval rating afterwards.

[zev_steinhardt]

Christy Mathewson for Amos Rusie.

Babe Ruth for cash and a mortgage on Fenway Park (???!)

McLean Stevenson leaving M*A*S*H for his own series.

I have to concur with the Japanese attacking Pearl Harbor.

Cornwallis' decision to encamp on a peninsula.

The guy (I don't remember his name, but I saw a special about it on PBS a few years back) who had the opportunity to license DOS before Bill Gates but turned it down.

I'd like to think I can check back on this thread in a hundred years and find "hijacking those planes and flying them into the World Trade Center."

Zev Steinhardt