Kmart can kiss my ass-maybe TMI

[Guinastasia]

Fuck you.

I called in, tonight, to tell you I wouldn't be in tomorrow, because I've "got a touch of something" (read: I have my period, and it hurts like a fucking ass bastard and I've got a migraine and I'm moody as all goddamn hell).

Walt, that fucknugget says, "a touch of something? Well, can't you come in, it's Saturday, we still need you. We'll call you tomorrow morning and see if you're okay."

Look, dickweed, what do you want me to do, scream, "I'm on the rag, asshat!" Fuck the fuck off, okay? It's not my fault you only schedule two fucking people for the front register! Do you want me to be there, sobbing and hunched over from cramps? Do you want me snapping at everyone because I'm bitchy as all hell?

I thought I'd be nice and give you a little notice. OH no, I'll call you tomorrow. I'll say I've got a temperature or something. But I swear to fucking HELL, if they try to guilt me, I'm giving them all the fucking TMI details! Go screw yourselves! I hope the whole godforsaken company goes belly up and you all find yourselves working as bathroom janitors at Rush Limbaugh's favorite Mexican restaurant!!!!!!


:mad:

[GIGObuster]

Sorry to know you are feeling bad Guinastasia. But I have to say your final curse about Limbaugh's restaurant made my day!!

I hope you feel better soon.

-- M.

[Wisest Novel]

Guinistasia (one of my favorite SDMB names, BTW), I'm sorry you're not feeling well, and equally sorry you work for unfeeling drones.

Side issue: I've been living under a rock lately, and haven't kept up with current events. Does K-Mart's bankruptcy affect employees, or did they work out some get-well plan? In other words, on top of your reproductive cycle woes, do you also have to worry about job security?

Upon re-reading this, I realize this is probably a terribly insensitve time to bring it up. Disregard if you're still feeling bad. Take an analgesic and go to bed early instead.

[Guinastasia]

I was just about to go to bed.

No, I'm not worried about job security, as they already closed the stores and mine wasn't one of them. The only problem is, now they're scheduling us even LESS than before, and they never kept enough people to begin with. The policy was to schedule just enough people to not piss of customers. Now it's three registers for people. I swear, it sucks.

I'm not offended at all. But they had better NOT threaten me-saying I'll be let go if I don't come in tomorrow. They can't do that-can they?

:confused:

[Barking Spider]

Well, I'm fortunate to work for the largest employer in the country, and I have a cool supervisor, so when I call in "sick", I dont have to make any coughy, sniffly noises. I simply tell him I'm not feeling well, and to put me on sick leave. He'll then say "OK", and I them say "thanks" and hang up the phone.

[Barking Spider]

Oh, and by the way, I'd rather clean up after Rush Limbaugh than a big fat hog like Rosie O'Donnel!

[Hyperelastic]

Originally posted by Barking Spider
Oh, and by the way, I'd rather clean up after Rush Limbaugh than a big fat hog like Rosie O'Donnel!

This is both irrelevant and nonsensical. If it's the fatness that bothers you, Limbaugh's lost and regained more than Rosie O'Donnell's entire weight.

Wal-Mart boy.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

"Fucking Ass Bastard"?

BAND NAME!!!!!!

[truthbot]

Originally posted by Barking Spider
Oh, and by the way, I'd rather clean up after Rush Limbaugh than a big fat hog like Rosie O'Donnel!

Barking Spider For the record, Rush Limbaugh is a big fat hog, and Rosie O'Donnell is merely gay, albeit with a jaunty koosh ball.;)

[minty green]

Guin, may I suggest that you take this opportunity to tell Kmart to go fuck themselves? C'mon, people who can consistently string together gramatically-correct, coherent sentences simply do not work for fucking Kmart. Not even in Kmart world headquarters, as is attested to by the recent bankruptcy. Serious employers love liberal arts majors, at least as long as they don't wear their Che Guevara t-shirts to interviews. ;)

[Seraphim]

I'm wondering that too. Given that you're obviously not among the bottom 10% KMart usually drafts for their wage-based slave labor, why the fuck do you still work there?

[Duck Duck Goose]

....and you know I've asked you that same question before, Guin.

Bail, girl. ;)

If nothing else, go down to the Post Office and take the Civil Service exam.

[syncrolecyne]

I work in a small store, not a chain or anything. I work evenings, the other guy works mornings while I am in school. We split weekends.

If one of us calls in sick, the owner (who is usually out of town) has to call some relative of his who knows nothing about the store to drive over and fill in. Its a mess.

I envy people who work in the 'big stores'. I'd think they could easily have someone fill in for you. And besides, every time I go into a K-Mart it seems that there are 12 check outs, and 3 people working them. Who would notice if you were out for a day?

[Guinastasia]

Well, this morning I called in and got our store manager. I just told him I had called the night before, and I had been up half the night and had a fever. He was very sympathetic and just said, "Well, I hope you feel better then!"

Trust me, I'm looking for a new job. But until I actually FIND one, I can't quit. *sigh*

Oh well.

[milroyj]

Originally posted by Guinastasia
Well, this morning I called in and got our store manager. I just told him I had called the night before, and I had been up half the night and had a fever.

I know I'm I guy and all, and not privileged to understand these things, but how do cramps suddenly become a fever?

[jayjay]

Originally posted by Guinastasia
I'm not offended at all. But they had better NOT threaten me-saying I'll be let go if I don't come in tomorrow. They can't do that-can they?

:confused:

Probably. Pennsylvania is an "at-will" employment state. I believe this means that you can be fired for any reason that doesn't fall under the anti-discrimination statutes, including such well-thought-out classics as "We don't like you" or "My brother-in-law needs the position".

Any PA lawyers on the board can feel perfectly free to correct me if I'm wrong, however.

jayjay

[Marley]

Originally posted by milroyj


I know I'm I guy and all, and not privileged to understand these things, but how do cramps suddenly become a fever?

Cramps can become a fever for three reasons that leap instantly to mind, and possibly more:

1) I'm more than happy to tell you all the gory details, but not every woman is comfortable doing that. Be grateful; they're doing you a favor.

2) I've had male bosses who have failed to understand that I have fainted from cramps. No, they're not that bad for everyone, and they're not usually that bad for me, but generally, if I'm lying on the floor unconscious, I'm not going to be able to drive in to work. And my boss at the time accused me of lying and looking for sympathy. "Don't be silly, it's not that bad!" (Your boss may vary.)

3) A fever is something that can be measured, and it's a very good indication that something is wrong. Fevers can also be caused by illnesses which are contagious, and one working sick employee today might mean a dozen employees home sick tomorrow. Managers usually don't argue when an employee calls in sick with a fever.

I don't lie about these things, partly because discussion of bodily functions doesn't bother me at all, and partly because I usually don't have symptoms which can't be made bearable by OTC drugs. I'm also afflicted with a severe case of I-don't-give-a-shit-what-the-boss-thinks, which probably means that I don't need the job as much as Guinastasia does.

If I had others who depended on me and my income, I'm sure I'd have a fever, too.

[Guinastasia]

Exactly-thank you, Marley.

I did not have a fever, but I lied and said I did, because I wasn't about to give my boss extreme TMI by saying, "I'm on the rag, you shit head!"

Although if he had given me a hard time, I would have said, "To put it bluntly, I have my period, I have cramps, my ears are full of fluid* and I have a migraine and I'm moody as all get out."

*some women complain about water retention-getting bloated and their clothes not fitting. What I wouldn't give for that! I get water retention-in my ears. It's horrible, and my ears hurt. I can't even turn my head sometimes, it's so bad.

[Guinastasia]

Oh, and just in case you're wondering, I'm not at all uncomfortable with telling people I have my period, or sharing details (not too graphic ones, like, "Oh my god, I'm bleeding like a stuck pig!").

However, sometimes others are uncomfortable hearing about it. I don't want to embarass the hell out of my boss. My own father doesn't like to hear about it. *sigh*

You'd think by now he'd be used to it. He's the only male in the house, and growing up, he was the only male and had four younger sisters. Sheesh!

[yosemite]

Guin: Your dad sounds like my dad - at least in the context that he lived in an all female household (he had all daughters, and two younger sisters). My dad wasn't terribly comfortable hearing about the extreme details of periods, but he had no problem buying all of us tampons! :)

I have to say, I completely understand the fever story. You TRIED to tell the truth, they wouldn't understand.

A "fever" is on a level they can understand. I don't consider it a lie per-se, I consider it "translation for the clueless". Some people have no concept of how miserable cramps can be. Rather than have them insult and aggravate you by questioning your integrity ("you're not serious - cramps aren't a good enough reason") you just "translate" your ailment into terms that they CAN comprehend. It isn't as if you lied and said you were sick, when in fact you felt fine.

[minty green]

Okay, I'm entirely over my crush on Guinastasia.








;)

[Doug Bowe]

The hint of something distasteful can sometimes cause the conversation to cease.

"I've been up all night with diarrhea."

Just use it when you really need it.

[Zappo]

Originally posted by jayjay


Probably. Pennsylvania is an "at-will" employment state. I believe this means that you can be fired for any reason that doesn't fall under the anti-discrimination statutes, including such well-thought-out classics as "We don't like you" or "My brother-in-law needs the position".

Any PA lawyers on the board can feel perfectly free to correct me if I'm wrong, however.

jayjay


Nope, you're right. No employment contract, no recourse in most cases unless you're talking about a public policy-based exception like ADA, whistleblowing activities, etc.

Unfortunately, those exceptions don't apply to Guin's facts, probably.


Zap!

[milroyj]

So the "fever" thing was a lie. Duh. Allow me to give you some advice, even though you didn't ask for it. You appear to have a weak work ethic, which wil NOT serve you well in the long run. Calling in sick on a regular basis, lying to the boss, etc., aren't considered good things. I know you have a crappy job at Krapmart, but you're habits aren't good for when you get into the "real world."

[pepperlandgirl]

milroyj, I can't believe what you posted. She has a poor work ethic because she "lied to her boss" and called in sick? I see you have never, ever haved cramps. As someone who not only gets cramps, but also diarrhea, when "on the rag", I can tell you that very few "real illnesses" are more painful than that time of the month.

I also just re-read this entire thread, and no where did she say she was calling in sick on a regular basis. Can you give me the exact quote, in case I missed it? Otherwise, I think you owe her an apology.
Also, can you give me an exact quote that says she's not living in the "real world". True she works at Krapmart right now, but I believe, she is also a college graduate and extremely intelligent. I think she may have a better idea of "the real world" than you think she does.

Also, can you tell me what exactly when it's ok to call in sick? If amazingly painful cramps is not reason enough, what is? I hate to say thing, because it does sound condensending, but if you are a man, you probably don't understand.

[yosemite]

Ditto what Pepperlandgirl said.

"Lying" is when you call in sick when you are not sick. You instead spend the day at the beach, or at the mall, or at a party.

"Translating your illness into something that your idiot boss can comprehend" is saying that you are "real sick with a fever", when in fact you are "real sick with mind-numbingly uncomfortable cramps." The bottom line was, she was SICK. No lie, SICK.

Some bosses are asshole jerks. You have to deal with their prejudices and preconcieved notions. If you don't have the "right" excuse, (no matter how legitimate your excuse actually is) they won't honor it. Does that make you automatically wrong, and them right? Hell no!

Case and point: The day of the 1994 Northridge Quake (S. California) I called said I couldn't come in, because I didn't want to leave my handicapped sister, and our handicapped/elderly/extremely ill friend alone at home. The phones were in and out, the roads were iffy, my sister can't drive, the elderly friend was feeble and was in no shape to drive. This wasn't a "good enough" reason to not come in for my boss. She said "If you had kids, I'd understand, but not for this." (I didn't come in. The store survived, in fact, they closed early for lack of business. Who wants to buy stuff on the day of a major quake anyway?)

My point is this: just because my BOSS was a clueless bitch, does it mean that I should have sucked it up and come into work? Was I justifed in not coming into work, or should my boss's values supercede my own? In my case, I was willing to just not come in and take the consequences (I would have complained to the head office, if needs be) but in Guin's case, she probably just didn't need the hassle. She'll be out of there soon enough. But why should she have to fight against an asshole boss's CLUELESSNESS? She's sick, dammit. Fever, cramps, what's the damned difference?

[JonScribe]

Being on the rag never stopped Martha Stewart from showing up for work at Kmart.

[Marley]

milroyj, did you have to prove my point two (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1932731#post1932731) (above) so quickly?

[WortMeWorry]

As a man, and a manager, I think she did the right thing.
For my peace of mind, lie to me. It is easier to justify being shorthanded due to the flu.
Besides, Nobody with any sense, wants a person at work who obviously feels that bad
However, most managers look at schedules more often then customer service.
Then after possible customer complaints, they " Have A Talk" with the employee. This doesn't do Anyone any good.

[Johanna]

Originally posted by Guinastasia
they never kept enough people to begin with. The policy was to schedule just enough people to not piss of customers.HA!!! Too late, I'm afraid.

I got news for them: they sure failed at that. They do nothing but piss off customers with their idiot "policy".

[betenoir]

Originally posted by milroyj
So the "fever" thing was a lie. Duh. Allow me to give you some advice, even though you didn't ask for it. You appear to have a weak work ethic, which wil NOT serve you well in the long run. Calling in sick on a regular basis, lying to the boss, etc., aren't considered good things. I know you have a crappy job at Krapmart, but you're habits aren't good for when you get into the "real world."

I see all the things I thought when I read you're post (she didn't say she called in sick regularly, she didn't lie about being sick, a lousy job does not mean you are not living in the "real world"{what the fuck do you consider the "real world" I have to wonder?}) so I'll just state the obvious- you're a condecending jerk- and call it a day.

[SisterCoyote]

You know, I found milroyj's post interesting, if somewhat misinformed.

I used to get extremely ill over my period - so ill, in fact, that I did run a fever. Usually around 102. I couldn't stand up without either getting dizzy or having my head prepare to explode from a migraine. I had the runs. I often threw up. Even when I did manage to stand up I couldn't stand up straight. All of this because my body produces an excess of estrogen during that time of the month.

(Goddess bless Lo-Ovral.)

Tell me, milroyj, do I have a "weak work ethic" because I wasn't willing to work on those days? Does Guin have to meet that criterion for you? :wally

Guin - for heaven's sake, check out Kelly (http://www.kellyservices.com) and find yourself a better job. Sheesh.

[ultress]

I don't shop at K-Mart any more because the last time I went in to buy a TV I couldn't get anyone to carry it up front for me (27') and I just walked out after 20 minutes and went to Wal-Mart. I think you did the right thing, I don't know of many women who sometime in their life hasn't called in sick for the same reason you did.

[Anahita]

"Female workers may also request for a monthly leave if they experience difficulty in working during menstruation"
-taken from http://www.cfo.gov.ph/mais/japs.htm


I taught in Japan for five years, and in fact, did use the menstruation leave (one day per month). It is separate from "sick leave" and in my particular situation, it didn't count towards your ten paid sick days. It was written into our contracts, which was always interesting for friends who came to visit.

We had a female administrator, so it wasn't at all awkward to tell her we were taking a menstruation leave. Of course, when I was pregnant, I had to give them up. ;)

[Medea's Child]

Ohhh...Guin...sorry about the sucky period.

And yea milroyj, they can really, really suck. Before I got on birth control mine were not only unpredicatable (2 weeks between, 8 weeks between, its all the same right? This is called a cycle?) But several times a year very, very painful. I have passed out in a school hallway from "mere cramps". And it was merciful, blissful unconsiousness in comparison to the writhing on the floor moaning that it was preceded by.

Though I probably woudn't have lied about it (or translated it, however you spilt the hair) I would share more and more bloody, ugly details until I was released. If "I have bad cramps" isn't enough, I will explain further.

My family has given me the following work ethic "If you can physically make it to the workplace, you are healthy enough to work." If cramps, flu, or the bubonic plague are bad enough that I can't make it to work, then I will not be there. If they are gentle enough that I can make it, I will be there. That's the cut off. I'm sorry if that is a weak work ethic in your life.

And I repeat an question asked above, if being forced to work a totally shit job in order to have money isn't the real world, what is?

[Wisest Novel]

milroyj, you're close to the truth on this one when you describe Guin's problem as being her work ethic, but it actually is much more serious. In truth, her refusal to work was clearly a thinly-veiled attempt to undermine the US GNP by witholding her services from the workforce. When K-Mart goes bankrupt, all good Americans suffer.

Since I know the clones in this forum expect to see proof (all that figting ignorance nonsense), I'll give it. Her Doper name is actually a cleverly enciphered message to the underground regime, identifying her as a member.

Guinastasia = I Against USA.

Coincidence? I think not. All thinking people should search out the members of this conspiracy and force them to work every day, regardless of the lame excuses they provide you. And don't be fooled by their limitless propaganda, either (you can find it in countless so-called "leadership manuals"). Contagious diseases, additional days lost due to untreated illness, and poor customer service from ill employees are all just tricks they "cite" to get you to buy into the conspiracy. Don't be fooled. If you buy their hogwash, you're probably also among the gullible who are unaware of the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide.

Thank you for allowing me to publicly expose Guin and her cabal.

[catsix]

Forgive me, but I can't understand what's so bad about being on the rag that makes it impossible to go to work.

If you have actually lost consciousness because of cramps, then you've got something there, but the run-of-the-mill cramps, headache, water retention - heh. Sometimes, you have to suck it up and go to work anyway.

I wish I could call in sick every time I had cramps or a migraine or I retained water, but that's not how it works. I get cramps. I get migraines. I pop some advils and I go to work because it's my responsibility to be there even when I'm feeling less than 100% healthy. My period is not a disease that means vacation days, and if I started insisting that it was, I'd probably be fired pretty quickly because my boss would figure my work ethic sucks.

I just find it real hard to understand how the boss is an asshole for this one, because I find it hard to believe that being on the rag necessitates calling in sick.

[Podkayne]

Oh, screw off, catsix.

Why does it make such a big difference whether a woman's symptoms are caused by a virus hijacking the cells of her body to crank out more copies of its infernal self, or by hormones dicking up the normal functioning of her organs?

If she's too sick to work, she's too sick to fucking work.

"Sobbing and hunched over" doesn't sound like "run-of-the-mill cramps" to me. Just 'cause you don't get 'em that bad, sister, doesn't mean that women who do are being wusses. And they don't have to make you faint before they make it difficult or impossible for you to stand up or to sit up in a chair. If some women's cramps are so bad they can't make it to work, it's not because their work ethic sucks compared to yours, oh high and mighty one (do let me know when your boss awards you the "perfect attendance" trophy, so that I can send you a note of congratulation), it's quite possibly because they are in more pain than you.

Here's hoping you never experience cramps that bad.

And if you are taking a couple of Advils and working with a "migraine", I have a strong suspicion that you don't really get migraines--you get bad headaches. Personally, I find it very difficult to work with an aura blocking two-thirds of my field of vision. I hope that my work ethic is not diminished in your eyes if I let something silly like my inability to read prevent me from contining to work at that point. Luckily the one severe migraine headache I have experienced was at night, but I guarantee you that, even after taking OTC pain medication, the pain was such that I would have been unable to fulfill my job functions if I was at work when it struck. Even if you do have honest-to-God migraines that you can effectively treat with Advil, you might want to consider the remote possibility that some people's migraines might possibly be a smidge more debilitating than your own.

And, once again, I hope you never find out personally what it's like to be reduced to a vomitting, quivering wreck while some vengeful demon goes about redecorating the interior of your skull with a wrecking ball.

But if you did get an episode of killer cramps, or a nasty full-blown migraine (and I'm not saying that I hope you do, because I wouldn't wish either one on my worst enemy) then you might devote some of the time you spend away from work thinking about how low-class it is to look down your nose at someone for their lack of work ethic when you haven't walked a mile in their shoes.

Guinastasia, it sucks that your boss requires anything more from you than, "I'm not feeling well, and I won't be able to come to work tomorrow." Your health is your personal business. If they pry, it's up to you whether you wish to demurr, "Oh, I'd just as soon keep the gory details to myself. I'll probably be feeling better by Wednesday." or give them the straight dope: "Okay, imagine that somebody's been using your gut and lower back as a punching back for about a day and a half and blood is streaming out of a hole between your legs. It kind of feels like that."

[catsix]

Oh excuse fucking me because I don't immediately think that menstrual cramps mimick appendicitis. And hey, go off on me all you want because I don't take time off due to cramps, but after the horror stories of exaggeration I've seen from chicks around me, I do have a hard time believing it up front when somebody says that cramps leave them 'bent over sobbing'.

Excuse me if I think an employer has the right to be a little dubious of an employee calling in sick knowing full well that the store is short-staffed, especially when that employee doesn't sound the least bit sick on the telephone. God damn, of all the fucking NERVER for a boss to actually want the employees to show up to work at their scheduled times. What a fucking asshole for trying to get employees to actually show up on their scheduled days. Where the fuck are his manners? Wanting someone to actually show up and perform their duties on their scheduled shift, that's so blatantly fucking wrong and evil, I don't think I even have to get into it.

As for migraines, I've been there. I've had them for years. Started getting them so young that my doctor didn't even want to believe it, but that's exactly what I had. I've dealt with cluster headaches, 'white outs' (If you've never had one, that's where you get a sudden intense burst of pain and your entire field of vision goes white), throwing up, being dizzy, even passing out. What I learned from all of this is that if the migraine is bad enough to cause any of those things, it's also bad enough that I can't see a computer screen or even tolerate the sound of the keys clicking while I type.

Maybe her boss pries about it because like some other bosses out there, he/she gets a lot of people calling in 'sick' when the reality is that the weather's nice and they'd rather go do something else, or because they just want to sleep in, or some other reason than that they're actually sick. Or maybe it's because she misses a lot of days due to being 'sick' and bosses get a little suspicious of those who call in sick on a regular basis (and once or twice a month can be enough to trigger those 'Wow, _____ sure is sick a lot.. I wonder if they're faking' alarm bells).

But yeah, if I'm the one who gets the calls for 'I'm sick, I'm not coming', I tend to ask them if they'll come in if feeling better tomorrow, or if they're sure they absolutely can't make it when I know there's already a shortage. So bite me, because I just can't call someone a 'fucking asshole' for wanting employees to show up when scheduled to work.

[Guinastasia]

Originally posted by Jomo Mojo
HA!!! Too late, I'm afraid.

I got news for them: they sure failed at that. They do nothing but piss off customers with their idiot "policy".

Oh, I agree with you. But in their minds, they weren't pissing anyone off.


Occassionally, I've had to call off because of anxiety attacks, because I was literally having panic attacks at the thought of coming into work and dealing with people. (There was more to this, but I don't feel like going into it.)
That time, however, I DID tell my supervisor, because she and I were very friendly and I knew I could tell her and she wouldn't give me a hard time.

I've looked into Kelly, thanks, but I noticed you pay them to find you a job. Right now, this isn't possible.

*sigh*

I can deal with it-I went in yesterday, and I STILL had cramps, but I only worked for five hours. That said, I wanted to scream from the pain. I can't take Ibuprofen too much anymore-it's beginning to bother my stomach. Midol isn't much better-the only kind that really helps is the stuff that makes me sleepy.


Wisest Novel-dammit! I thought I was so careful! Damn you to hell, you foiled my evil plot! :D

catsix-so because you are so wonderful and healthy and a perfect employee, the rest of us are dirt? How about you bite me twice?

Quite frankly-my work ethic is pretty good. However, sometimes the bottom line is-my work, or my health. My mental health is way more important to me than a place where it's everyone for him or herself, and no one gives a damn about you. My ethic about Kmart is being destroyed by seeing the crap and abuse and rampant incompetance by the higher ups while we peons are forced to do the shit work and take the blame. Piss off.


milroyj, I'm guessing you're single? If not, go to your wife/girlfriend/SO and tell them what you just told me. And then come back and tell me I wasn't "sick."


Just go to hell, all of you. I have a work ethic-but Kmart is slowly destroying it.

[Guinastasia]

Oh, btw, I didn't mean ALL of you, everyone here.

I meant, those who have their heads stuffed up their asses.

Carry on!

[zweisamkeit]

it's not a given thing for me to have my cramps be totally debilitating. but it happens often enough for my doctor to prescribe me very strong painkillers for them.

luckily i haven't had *terrible* cramps when i've needed to work. but one time in high school i had horrendous cramps start in my lunch hour. i only had one more class to go before the end of the day, so i decided to tough it out. i had none of my medication with me.

well i spent that entire class period hunched over whimpering. there was no way i could have done anything if we had had a lab or a test that day. instead i just sat there while the teacher had a useless lecture. it felt like my ovaries were being gnawed on by a rabid rottweiler.

when class ended, i couldn't even walk to my locker, i had to crawl. then i had to crawl to the bathroom because i started feeling naseous. i VOMITED my cramps were so bad, then i spaced in and out for a half-hour. if i had actually had to do work, i would not have been able to. does that mean i have a shitty work ethic? NO. it means that i had cramps that were ten times worse than any cramps i had ever experienced; and they were painful enough to be debilitating. so since you haven't had anything like that, that means that no one is capable of having that? i don't think so.

i've gone to work with the flu before, (never missed a single day of work) or with a cold or even after i had eye surgery and had a nice patch over half my face and was a bit woozy. but i was able to function. with those cramps i described, there was no way i'd be able to do anything more than curl up and cry. it's a physical fact, and has nothing to do with my work ethic.

[dna_man]

Oh excuse fucking me because I don't immediately think that menstrual cramps mimick appendicitis. And hey, go off on me all you want because I don't take time off due to cramps, but after the horror stories of exaggeration I've seen from chicks around me, I do have a hard time believing it up front when somebody says that cramps leave them 'bent over sobbing'.

Men sure can be PIGS sometimes can't we? This reminds me of the ball-kicking thread. Believe it, catsix... a swift kick in the nuts would help you understand the kind of pain they are talking about.

[catsix]

So, Guin, exactly what percentage of your scheduled days for a month do you actually call in sick?

Because from your posts here, it sounds like a lot.

I never claimed to be 'wonderful and healthy and the perfect employee', but I do show up for work every day and deal with shit work even when I don't want to. It blows, and sometimes I don't feel well and I'd rather be home (last week, fluid in my lungs - yummy - but I still worked 65 hours). And as for everyone giving a crap only about themselves and screw everyone else - welcome to the ladder commonly known as 'corporate America.'

Hell half the reason I show up for work when I feel like I'm dead is because I know if I'm there, nobody can be screwing up my work in my absence and knifing me in the back to get my job.

zweisamkeit:

Where are we getting the impression that I've never had cramps, even really bad ones, before? I remember days working construction that I'd throw up before we left the garage, at first break, before lunch, when we got out of the trucks, and again when I got home. It wasn't the happiest of working conditions, but it was never debilitating.

dna_man:

That's nice, but I don't have nuts. I have, however, had menstrual cramps many, many times.... and they really are not that bad. What amazes me is that you're convinced they really are. Because it shows me that it's true. Females really have figured out the ultimate in 'get men to feel sorry for us'. In reality IF they're as bad as is being professed in here, then these ladies need to go see a doctor immediately. Cramps are not that severe repeatedly unless there's something really WRONG.

[Guinastasia]

No, YOUR menstrual cramps are not that bad. YOUR cramps. MINE are. Go screw. Oh, you're acting like a helpless female. No, I'm saying I'm in pain, fuckstick. And I would go to the doctor, but there's this little problem about not having medical insurance.

Perhaps I think it's unprofessional to be waiting on people while hunched over. Perhaps I think it's rude and wrong to go into work while hacking and puking and making other people sick. Whatever.

I never SAID how often or whatever I call off. Quite frankly, it's none of your damn business, and you don't have to fucking deal with it, okay?

How can I stay at a register when I'm THROWING UP, dumbass? What, should I keep a bucket near by? Oh, the customers will LOVE that! :rolleyes: Sheesh! If I went to a store, and saw a sick employee, you better believe I would complain to managment, because a person should NOT be waiting on customers when they are unwell! I don't want to get whatever they have, or watch them hacking all over the place. It's gross and quite frankly, very rude! If I were the boss, I'd send you home if you came in like that, because it's unprofessional-got it?



I doubt anyone is going to "knife me in the back to get my job." Unless you want to be a check out slave at Kmart-be my guest.


And oh, how the FUCK am I supposed to wait on someone when I'm having a panic attack? What the fucking HELL is wrong with you! I suppose I should just "deal with it?"

If that's your attitude, you can just go fuck yourself with Courtney Love's recently used, unwashed dildo for all I care. Because you obviously don't know JACKSHIT about my situation.


(As far as climbing the corporate ladder, in case you didn't notice, this isn't my life's ambition. Go to hell).

[catsix]

YOU started this thread ranting because your boss is an asshole for expecting you to show up for work when scheduled.

YOU got mad because your boss said something about 'calling tomorrow' to see if you were better after YOU gave that boss no indication of what was actually wrong.

YOU yourself said that the place was already short-staffed and would be even more so without you there.

YOU then think you have some grounds to call this boss a fucking asshole for wanting you to be at work on your scheduled shifts and YOU think something's wrong with ME because I know where the boss is coming from?

Look, I'm really sorry that you have so many medical problems it makes your life so miserable, but that is not your employer's problem. You've made it your employer's problem by calling off work on less than 24 hours notice when the boss can't find someone else to fill in, so of course the boss is a fucking asshole for wanting you to come in if you feel better by the time your shift starts. Jesus, what's wrong with that boss. He oughta be shot for such evil thinking.

If you wanna call in sick, that's up to you. But you've got no grounds to call your boss a fucking asshole. Frankly, it just sounds whiny as all hell. It's perfectly reasonable that the boss is gonna wanna talk to you and see if you're better again the next day to see if you're coming or if he's still gotta find someone else (or fill in for you himself). He wanted you to come in the next day if you were feeling better because that was your scheduled day to work, and all of a sudden HE's a dickhead for not reading your goddamn mind?

You blew up with way too little impetus on this one.

[Marley]

Originally posted by Guinastasia
And oh, how the FUCK am I supposed to wait on someone when I'm having a panic attack?

Guin, I thought I knew what a panic attack must be like. I've panicked a couple of times in my life, and I do have a phobia which must be faced every now and then, which causes constant fear and loss of sleep for a month in advance. How different can a panic attack be?

Then I watched a friend go through a panic attack.

No clue. I have no clue.

I suspect that explaining a panic attack to someone who has never experienced one is like trying to explain cramps to men. Or like them trying to explain a kick in the nuts to us.

Or like you trying to explain debilitating cramps to someone who doesn't experience them.

[yosemite]

Originally posted by catsix
It blows, and sometimes I don't feel well and I'd rather be home (last week, fluid in my lungs - yummy - but I still worked 65 hours).

You're kidding! Ewww! You drag yourself into work, and work 65 hours anyway? Did you have anything that was contagious? And 65 hours? What? You want to win the "martyr" award for working 65 hours when you have fluid in your lungs? That doesn't strike me so much as a good work ethic as it strikes me of someone who is working themselves into a nice hospital visit. It's counter-productive.

And as for everyone giving a crap only about themselves and screw everyone else - welcome to the ladder commonly known as 'corporate America.'
There's a distinction between not giving a damn for your co-workers and calling in sick any old time (so you can go to the beach) and calling in sick when you are SICK. Sorry, not all of us want to drag ourselves in when we are miserable and hacking up something. I don't think that is a mandatory part of being part of the work force. That's why they call them sick days. You use them when you are SICK.

I have worked overtime to help out my coworkers. Hell, I worked 16 hours on Christmas Day so a coworker could have the day off. I'll drag myself to work when I am feeling under the weather, but am confident that my crackpot herbs and multiple liters of bottled water will sustain me. But I won't work when I am knock-down-drag-out sick. And I won't feel guitly for it.

Perhaps I could be wrong, but I have to say - you remind me a little bit of the boss who wanted me to leave my handicapped sister and elderly friend on the day of the Northridge Quake. (I guess she figured that since they were adults, they could take care of themselves.) She gave me her line about how she was up and about the day of the quake, before the sun came up. She bragged about how she drove on the freeway, to get to work. However, she failed to mention that since some of the freeway had collapsed clean away she was risking her own life by driving on a freeway while it was still dark. (One policeman died when his motorcycle fell off the edge of a broken part of the freeway.) But - oh no! She was heroic! She was dedicated! Oh yeah! God Forbid anything get in the way of showing up for work! She told me "Don't let some earthquake get in your way!" Give me a freaking break.

I don't care if it make me look like I have a "bad work ethic" to some, but my family comes before work, my personal heath and safety come before work. If that upsets some bosses, who think they can "guilt" me into forsaking my own personal health and safety, that's their problem. (I've had more than one boss like this...let me tell you - it's the tip of the iceberg...)

Hell half the reason I show up for work when I feel like I'm dead is because I know if I'm there, nobody can be screwing up my work in my absence and knifing me in the back to get my job.
Yikes. You have issues with your job then, that have nothing to do with sick days, and their proper use.

[jayjay]

Guin:

Where did you find the information about Kelly requiring payment from you to find you a temp job? I've been working for Kelly on and off for the last four years and I've never had to pay them a red cent. Same with ManPower and Spherion.

jayjay

[catsix]

Yeah, I work 65 hours a week. I did it last week, fluid in lungs and everything. Doctor assured me that I was not in any way contagious and as long as I felt like I could be walking around, I could be walking around. So I did my usual week, I took my medicine like I was supposed to, and this week I'm fine. And I'll trust my doctor's advice on the hospital thing, since so far he's been right.

I'm not 'hacking up' anything, so it's not really an inconvenience to anyone else if I'm there when I've got the fluid, although it is an inconvenience to them if I'm not there because then someone else has to do the things I was supposed to - which basically most of them don't know how to do so they either don't get done or they get done wrong.

That's the other part, the 'half the reason'. While I'm gone, 'helpful' people who really wanna do what it is I do all day try to do those things 'for' me so they don't build up while I am out sick. Only these things generally get done wrong, and that gets blamed on me because it's assumed that if they're done at all, I did them.

Anyway, I don't have a problem with people taking time off when they're actually sick, but like I already said I have an extremely hard time seeing how being on the rag could possibly be that bad as a regular occurrance and not involve some sort of trip to the doctor to figure out what the hell is wrong, and also a problem with immediately jumping all over Guin's boss's back as if he's the biggest asshole on earth. Because honestly, it wasn't that unreasonable. 'If you're feeling better tomorrow, on your scheduled day of work, can you come in? We do need you. We'll call and see.'

Not the federal freakin case that was made out of it here. Without any other information than that she was feeling under the weather, there's no reason for him not to ask that she come in if she feels better. Unless of course, he was supposed to read her mind and know that because of the specific problem, which he was never told what it was, that she knew for a fact she wouldn't be feeling well in 12 hours.

I would've asked the same thing. Something like 'How bout I call you tomorrow and see if you feel like you can come in?'

I really don't think he was being a fuckwad for that. He expected that if she felt better, she'd come in. Instead he's called a 'fucking asshole' and all the respondees here want his head on a pole. I don't see what the big deal is.

[monstro]

I can't stand when people can't empathize, especially when it comes to periods. I have maybe a little bit more understanding for unsympathetic guys because they can't know how it feels. But for unsympathetic women I have no patience. They work my freakin' nerves.

Guin, I understand. Fortunately, when I'm sick with cramps I usually can stay home without having to tell anyone. It's one of the few perks of being a graduate student.

Work is good. Having a strong work ethic is something to proud of. But sound health and mind are good things too. We shouldn't sacrifice those things out of fear of being called lazy.

I have bad periods sometimes. On the first day, I have horrible bloat and fatigue and general malise. On these days I vomit and have diarrhea and look like death on a soda cracker. All the Advil in the world can't help me. Cramps come on the third day and they are the absolute worse. Sometimes I'll down a bunch of painkillers the night before in preparation for the inevitable.

I understand there a few women who never have cramps or complications. These are also the same women who claim to never have PMS. And to these people I say fine, good for ya'll. But don't denigrate those of us who do have hard times or try to make us feel bad by saying we're exaggerating. How the hell can you know when someone's exaggerating over pain and illness?

Guin, is it possible that you can talk to your boss one day and explain to him that sometimes you might need to have one or two days off for your period? If your workplace is as bad off for help as you make it out to be, he shouldn't mind making that adjustment in your work schedule to accomodate your needs. If he scoffs at the idea, then move on. K-Mart ain't all that and you can find another place that will better appreciate you and your talents.

[SisterCoyote]

Actually, cat, you're missing something.

Guin called in the day before as a favor to the company.

That's right. A favor. I don't know how long it's been since you worked in retail, but most workers who know their boss constantly short-staffs them will call in not the day before, when it's relatively easy for the boss to call someone else to repleace them, but will call the day of.

Since Guin knew she was going to be out, she tried to help her boss out by calling and letting them know with enough notice to fill the short-shifted position. Hell, I've worked in positions where it was my responsibility to find a replacement when I was sick as a dog or needed a day off on short notice. Disneyland operates that way, as a matter of fact, as far as days off on short notice (of course, if you're sick you're sick, and that's why DL gives you sick days. One a month, as a matter of fact, that accumulate until the end of the year).

Don't attribute malice to Guin and others like her because you have issues with your place of employment. If backstabbing is that much of a concern, I would highly recommend looking for new employment. Just as I have recommended to Guin.

After all, that has to lead to a lot of stress. Stress, in turn, leads to a suppressed immune system.

And god forbid you should be genuinely sick and someone should "steal" your job. :rolleyes:

[SisterCoyote]

Oh, and one other thing - what makes you think we haven't been to the doctor about the severity of our menstrual symptoms? I went - several times - because my cycle never settled down even when I was past 25.

Know what I was told? My symptoms - and my erratic cycle - were "normal."

Sometimes, you're reminded why they call it "practice."

[Guinastasia]

Um, hello? I didn't say he just asked me if I would feel better he actually said, "Well, why don't you come in anyways?"

It wasn't what he said, but HOW he said it. He sounded like, oh, well, too bad, you have to come in, sick or not. And when he said, "we'll see how you feel tomorrow", his tone was one of, "You liar." Or something to that tone.


If I really wanted to be a jerk, I could have waited until a half an hour before my shift and called off. No, I decided to be nice and give a little notice. Addmitedly, Walt is a dick. Everyone mostly agrees. Craig was very nice about my being sick. Others have been nice. If he had said nicely, we'll call in the morning. No, he said, "Wait, you say you're sick? Well, can't you come in anyways?"



Where are we getting the impression that I've never had cramps, even really bad ones, before? I remember days working construction that I'd throw up before we left the garage, at first break, before lunch, when we got out of the trucks, and again when I got home. It wasn't the happiest of working conditions, but it was never debilitating.


No, but it's fucking disgusting. And if I were in that condition-when my job is to be with the public at all times, it would be a tad inconvenient, to put it mildly. Let me ask you this-if you walked into a store, and YOU saw a cashier puking into a waste basket in between checking people out, would YOU go through her line?
:rolleyes:

You also seem to have missed the part where I mentioned I have no medical insurance. I can't visit a doctor about my cramps right now, even if I wanted to, because I. Can't. Afford. It.
Not to mention, I've said this to doctors in the past, and they told me it was normal. And it runs in the family-my mother was the same way, as is my sister.




(Kelly and such-I believe my dad mentioned it. D'oh. Now I feel stupid. Never rely on word of mouth. I'll look. thanks.)

Fine, I'm a wimpy, weak female who needs pampering and smelling salts. Whatever.

[catsix]

I am looking for another job.

But, no, I won't sit around and empathize with people who bitch about their periods. I don't see the need to have kumbayah moments over someone calling her boss an asshole for asking her to come in on her scheduled day if she felt better.

Courtesy to call the day before missing? Maybe. Responsibility to show up when scheduled? Um, Yes.

You wanna call in sick, fine. Do so. Whatever. But it's asinine and rediculous to rake the boss over the coals for his efforts to get an employee to be there for a scheduled shift.

If it's so bad you have to take a day off, then take one and quit bitching at your boss for being unable to read your fucking mind. Going into greater and greater detail and reaching new heights of metaphor are not going to change the fact that he didn't have all the information to begin with, so he went with 'If you're feeling better tomorrow, please come in at your scheduled time.'

And if you wanna call me a traitor to women because I'm not empathizing over period issues, you just go right ahead. I still won't empathize because I still don't think it's as bad as it's being made out to be.

[Guinastasia]

I never said you were a traitor to anybody. I simply said-don't tell me I'm exaggerating. I'll know when I'm exaggerating, dammit.

:rolleyes:

That being said, as far as short staffed-they do that on purpose. We have plenty of people, but they deliberately make the schedules up so we don't have enough people. And this has NOTHING to do with filing Chapter 11-it's always been that way. Why, I don't know, but I suspect it's just because they're cheap.

I wasn't complaining because he couldn't read my mind. I was bitching because he was acting like a jackass, by the way he said, "Oh, really?" Well!

If someone is sick, they're sick. Until they've given reason otherwise, it's best not to treat your staff as if they're liars.

[yosemite]

Originally posted by catsix
But, no, I won't sit around and empathize with people who bitch about their periods. I don't see the need to have kumbayah moments over someone calling her boss an asshole for asking her to come in on her scheduled day if she felt better.

Guin clarified, he wanted her to come in even THOUGH she was sick.

I had a boss do this. I had strained my back at work. I told my boss this. I didn't want to ruin my back because of work. The boss just kept on repeating "Can you come into work?" as if she didn't hear me say "I'M NOT COMING INTO WORK, I HAVE HURT MY BACK." (I didn't come in to work. Screw this, I thought. No job is worth potentially ruining my back.)

I know the type. I think I have Guin's boss's number. I think they all must go to "Asshole Boss Camp", where they are trained to pretend they don't hear an employee say "I'm sick. I can't come in." I guess they think if they keep ignoring the employee's illness, it will cease to exist. Or maybe they get extra "asshole boss points" for dragging ill employees in to work. I dunno.

Courtesy to call the day before missing? Maybe. Responsibility to show up when scheduled? Um, Yes.
So, which is it? Be "resonsible to show up when scheduled", even when you are sick? Either you show up when you are sick, or you don't. That's why they invented SICK DAYS. So that people could NOT show up on days they were "scheduled to work", "responsibility" or no.

You wanna call in sick, fine. Do so. Whatever. But it's asinine and rediculous to rake the boss over the coals for his efforts to get an employee to be there for a scheduled shift.
Is it appropriate for a boss to want an ill employee to show up for work? When said ILL employee calls to say they need to call in sick?

I still won't empathize because I still don't think it's as bad as it's being made out to be.
This takes the cake. Just because you don't understand it, it can't possibly exist. So, you can speak for the discomfort of other women's periods, huh? What, are you some sort of psychic or empath? Just because you don't "think it's as bad as it's being made out to be" doesn't mean that you are right. God Forbid! You might be WRONG! You may not be all-knowing! You think there is an itty-bitty possibility that perhaps you might not know all about everyone else's menstrual cycles? And don't tell me that this is not what you are doing, because it's exactly what you are doing. When you say you "don't think it's bad as it's being made out to be", you are assuming that the claims made about periods are bogus.

[catsix]

Oooh, bite me.

I'm sick and freakin tired of people who claim things are so horribly awful that they can't go to work, that they're downright debilitating, but of course they don't go to a doctor. Why? Oh doctors are expensive.

Yeah, well if it's something that has become debilitating, then expensive or not it seems like a doctor is a fucking necessity and it's time to figure out some way to actually SEE ONE.

If you have a debilitating condition, go to a god damn doctor. Obviously it's not bad enough to do that, but it is bad enough that 'I can't go to work'. Sure. MMMMHMMMM. I buy it.

But hey, back to the part about the boss who actually wants his employees to show up on their scheduled days. You call off work the night before, and the boss says he hopes you can come in, says something about if you're feeling better, doesn't sound AT ALL like he's being an asshole.

It sounds like often times what feels at night like total and utter shit feels BETTER in the morning. So of course, this guy is a total fuckin dickwad for tryin to get someone to actually show up for work by suggesting they MIGHT NOT FEEL SICK TOMORROW. Oh what a travesty. Get the fuck over it.

If you're going to be all 'nice' and call in the night before to tell them you're not comin to work, don't be too shocked if they don't kiss your ass for it. 'Oh, thank you for calling so much no I don't mind at all if you completely fuck up the schedule for tomorrow and force me to have to come in on my off day to personally cover for you I just appreciate that you called and told me this on a Friday night. Can I have some flowers or something sent over? How about a nice herbal tea?'

Jesus H. Fucking Christ what do you want out of this boss? It's like you all expect him to kiss her ass and hold her hand because she has cramps. As if he should be bowing down right now saying 'No, no! The dreaded female trouble! I am a horrible clod who deserves to die.' That's BULLSHIT. The dude is doing his job.

And at least he is.

[yosemite]

Originally posted by catsix
I'm sick and freakin tired of people who claim things are so horribly awful that they can't go to work, that they're downright debilitating, but of course they don't go to a doctor. Why? Oh doctors are expensive.
Do you think that each and every time someone calls in sick, they MUST be so ill that they require a doctor visit? Even if they've ALREADY VISITED THE DOCTOR (as some people here have stated) and have already been told that their symptoms are "normal"? Or do you think that some of these women must visit the doctor each and every month, just to have the doctor repeat that yep, the miserable symptoms they are still experiencing are, yep, still normal?

If you have a debilitating condition, go to a god damn doctor. Obviously it's not bad enough to do that, but it is bad enough that 'I can't go to work'. Sure. MMMMHMMMM. I buy it.
:rolleyes: There have been plenty of times I can think of where I knew what was wrong with me, was pretty confident it would pass in 24 hours, and yep, was STILL sick. Should I be expected to go into work anyway? Even though I was barfing regularly, or was spending way too much time in the bathroom? Or do you think that every time someone has the runs, or is barfing a lot, or has menstrual cramps, it's a drastic thing that REQUIRES a doctor visit? Because if that's so, the doctors' offices are going to be overflowing, even more than they are now. Can't you concieve of the idea that there are actually illnesses that are miserable enough to miss work for, but aren't drastic enough to rush out to see a doctor?

If you're going to be all 'nice' and call in the night before to tell them you're not comin to work, don't be too shocked if they don't kiss your ass for it. 'Oh, thank you for calling so much no I don't mind at all if you completely fuck up the schedule for tomorrow and force me to have to come in on my off day to personally cover for you I just appreciate that you called and told me this on a Friday night. Can I have some flowers or something sent over? How about a nice herbal tea?'
And calling in at the last moment is preferable to calling in a day before? How, exactly? How would a boss be at an advantage if they don't know they need to call in someone else until the last moment? Please specify how waiting until the last moment to call is preferable.

And, another important point: It wouldn't be such a drastic thing when someone calls in sick if the management would actually adequately staff each shift to begin with. Some of these retail establishments are constantly in a position of self-inflicted crisis. THEY choose to understaff, not the employees. And then the management goes into a complete tailspin because, God Forbid, some employee has the audacity to turn up sick, puking and feeling like crap. Damn. God Forbid an employee be SICK! The nerve!

I remember one time a supervisor get miffed at me (not for long, she was a good natured soul) because I called from across town, waiting for a tow truck, a few hours before work. The car's brakes failed, completely. I told her I had no other way of getting into work, unless she wanted to pick me up and take me home. (I hasten to add, I rarely use sick days, or get days off - I worked Christmas day, fer crying out loud.) Her first response was a sardonic "Well, this is short notice." To which I replied "Oh, I know. I had this CRAZY idea - that I could go out and drive my car on the road! That because I have a car, I am entitled to drive it around! What was I thinking!?!" (The supervisor laughed at this.) Oh, I know, I suppose I could have taken a taxi. But I didn't feel like spending the money (it would have been prohibitively expensive) and besides, I was WAY backlogged for holiday and vacation time. I was certainly entitled to use a day off.

Some things you just can't predict. If a schedule is set up so that the absence of one person is going to put everything into a tailspin, whose fault is it? I'll tell you - it isn't the fault of the person who is sick or has a major car problem. It's the fault of the person who makes the fricking schedule. I refuse to be held responsible, or feel guilty because they make SCREWED UP schedules.

[monstro]

Originally posted by catsix
I'm sick and freakin tired of people....


Well, if you're so sick, why don't you go to the doctor then? Because obviously you can't be sick unless you immediately seek medical advice.


Oh doctors are expensive.

Are you being sarcastic? Because doctors ARE expensive, at least they were the last time I checked.

I know I would think twice going to the doctor knowing that they might be as assholish as you are. Having to deal with unsympathetic people like you would be enough to make me feel sicker.

If you have a debilitating condition, go to a god damn doctor. Obviously it's not bad enough to do that, but it is bad enough that 'I can't go to work'. Sure. MMMMHMMMM. I buy it.

And you know Guin's entire medical history how? How do you know that she hasn't sought medical help in the past and just recently has been without insurance?

But hey, back to the part about the boss who actually wants his employees to show up on their scheduled days. You call off work the night before, and the boss says he hopes you can come in, says something about if you're feeling better, doesn't sound AT ALL like he's being an asshole.

And you heard the conversation how? Were you there? I think Guin--by actually knowing the guy and hearing him on the phone--has a better assessment of his assholishness than you do.

Guin gets paid to work, not to suffer. And I don't think the world stopped turning because she decided her comfort was more important than alerting K-Mart shoppers about the bluelight special on aisle 5.

It's people like you who bitch and moan when the cashiers at the grocery store aren't smiling and bouncing around like idiotic cheerleaders. Well, you can't have employees like that if they're on the verge of vomitting. To me, you can't have it both ways. People aren't slaves and they aren't robots, especially when they are only making minimum wage. And I'm sorry, but missing one lousy day at K-Mart ain't enough to come down on someone as harshly as you are doing. Get a freakin' life.

[Zyada]

Guin - next time they question you just tell them, "It's women stuff. You really, really don't want to know" If they don't accept that, they deserve the gory details.


catsix I recommend that you be very careful - looking down on how another woman handles her periods is very, very bad karma.

I used to do that, until my periods started getting worse from uterine fibroids.

I ended up:
Using only the largest available pads and still having to change them constantly and completely soaking them, sometimes within 15 to 20 minutes of putting in a new one.
Having to get up in the middle of the night, sometimes 6 or seven times to change pads (you know how much sleep you get then?) BTW, I slept on a plastic sheet to protect my bed.
Spending weekends holed up in my house, unable to do anything because I was either in the bathroom or in bed with a heating pad. And I was grateful that the worst part of my periods fell on the weekend because I didn't have to deal with work.
Having periods that lasted for three weeks plus, and started like clockwork after less than a week hiatus.

I repeat. I was glad that I didn't have to deal with the worst of this during work hours. I only had to take off once or twice.

And I did nearly pass out at work once.

And I am not lying nor exagerating. I started keeping track because the doctors always looked at me like I was exagerating.

Thank God for modern medicine.

[Zyada]

BTW, catsix, it took 10 years for a doctor to correctly diagnose me. And that doctor still wanted to do the same damn thing the other doctors I had seen had been doing. Thank god for the internet or I would not have been treated before I got laid off.

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by Guinastasia
Let me ask you this-if you walked into a store, and YOU saw a cashier puking into a waste basket in between checking people out, would YOU go through her line?
:rolleyes:

One of my friends was told by his boss he had to come in to work or lose his job when he had a 102 degree fever. They provided a bucket for him to vomit in because the smell of food was making him extremely nauseous. His job was preparing plates in a Red Lobster, though, so I guess the public didn't have to come into DIRECT contact with him...

[pepperlandgirl]

That being said, as far as short staffed-they do that on purpose. We have plenty of people, but they deliberately make the schedules up so we don't have enough people. And this has NOTHING to do with filing Chapter 11-it's always been that way. Why, I don't know, but I suspect it's just because they're cheap.


I can vouch for this at least. 2 years ago my husband worked as the up-front manager for Kmart in Park City. He didn't actually schedule the people to work, but he made the day schedules. (Who worked what register, when the lunches were, breaks, etc). :rolleyes: It was the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen. There were so few people working the register that their lunches had to be spread out, and it was a huge ordeal to get enough people to cover breaks or what not.
Also, he even though he was the up-front manager, they only gave him 33 hours a week...so he wouldn't be a full-time employee. Kmart treats its employees like crap. I worked there myself for a month....it was the most horrific, awful month of my life. I could hardly stand there when I'm healthy....I don't blame Guin for taking the day off when she's sick.

[milroyj]

Originally posted by SisterCoyote
You know, I found [b]milroyj's post interesting, if somewhat misinformed.

I used to get extremely ill over my period - so ill, in fact, that I did run a fever. Usually around 102

I'm probably totally wrong on this, but I was always taught that a fever was the result of the body trying to fight of an infection. Since a period can't possibly be considered an infection, where does the fever come in? Any docs or nurses wanna chime in here?

[milroyj]

Originally posted by pepperlandgirl
milroyj, I can't believe what you posted. She has a poor work ethic because she "lied to her boss" and called in sick?

I also just re-read this entire thread, and no where did she say she was calling in sick on a regular basis. Can you give me the exact quote, in case I missed it? Otherwise, I think you owe her an apology.

GUIN is a very prolific poster, so I have read a great many of her threads. This one is NOT the first time she referred to "calling off"work. In fact, it seems she has another "reason" to add to her repetoire, "panic attacks". Whatever. What's wrong with an employer expecting that people actually show up for their shifts?????

And the next time there's a thread about wage inequality in GD, we can just link to this thread. After all, if women only make 70 cents on the dollar vs. men, where's the debate when we have evidence that some women only work 70% as much as the men do?

[Aspidistra]

Originally posted by milroyj


I'm probably totally wrong on this, but I was always taught that a fever was the result of the body trying to fight of an infection. Since a period can't possibly be considered an infection, where does the fever come in? Any docs or nurses wanna chime in here?

At least your first four words are correct here.

Just because fighting an infection can cause a fever, doesn't mean nothing ELSE can.

Personally, I always have a raised temperature when I get my period. Not enough to need to stay home for, but enough to wake me in the middle of the night (sleeping above the covers, with nothing on) with sweat rolling down my back.

Mm-mm.

No cramps tho' thank Og, so I guess I'm one of the lucky ones...

[betenoir]

Originally posted by milroyj


[And the next time there's a thread about wage inequality in GD, we can just link to this thread. After all, if women only make 70 cents on the dollar vs. men, where's the debate when we have evidence that some women only work 70% as much as the men do?


Gee...actually at best the evidence here would only be regarding ONE woman working less than 100% of the time. (And I don't think it's very good evidence of that, even.) I don't think it will pass muster in GD.

I would amend my earlier judgement of "condecending jerk" to "total asshole", but you'd have to be pretty stupid to make such a broad sweeping statement based on anicdotal evidence, wouldn't you?

[SisterCoyote]

Originally posted by milroyj
And the next time there's a thread about wage inequality in GD, we can just link to this thread. After all, if women only make 70 cents on the dollar vs. men, where's the debate when we have evidence that some women only work 70% as much as the men do?

And men never get sick?

Ha! I'll be sure to tell my parents that. (My father has to take off a day whenever, for example, he gets a tetanus shot, because it makes him so ill.) My mom'll get a good laugh out of it, anyway.

Milroy, catsix, I ask again, when was the last time you worked in retail?

As far as working 70% of the time - well, for me that sounds about right. But then again, I'm a full-time student, and my education comes first. I'll worry about returning to the corporate workforce when I've finished that.

Yes, I have shown up when I was deathly ill, because I was the only person who could do my job. However, I made sure to tell my boss that I was leaving as soon as the urgent part of my task was completed.

See, I figured this little thing out. The "corporation" (to be fair, with the exception of Disney I've always worked for small companies) wasn't going to take care of my health. So I had to do it. And one sick day when I caught my symptoms early seemed like a lot less of my productive time for them to lose than three or four days when the stress of working while sick intensified my symptoms, plus the one day of not-really-productive-time engendered by the illness itself. Not to mention the two or three (or more) days out experienced by the employees who came down with what I was carrying.

Short-staffing in retail is idiocy. I can remember working and asking my boss, if he came out and didn't see me, to check the floor behind the counter. I had a migraine so severe I thought I was going to pass out. And the schedulers had fucked up and only scheduled me for that night, so he couldn't send me home.

And I'm willing we weren't half as busy as Kmart is on a regular basis.

And I'm rambling.

[yosemite]

See, I figured this little thing out. The "corporation" (to be fair, with the exception of Disney I've always worked for small companies) wasn't going to take care of my health. So I had to do it.
Truer words never spoken (well, written).

I decided that my family (sister, elderly friend) were important, and needed taking care of the day of the Northridge Quake. Because it was blatantly obvious that my boss didn't give a damn about them. If I don't care enough to make the proper choice for my family, who will?

I decided that the health of my back was important, and worth saving. So I didn't come into work one day. Because it was blatantly obvious that my boss didn't give a damn about my health.

And on another job (working with developmentally disabled people) I decided that I wasn't going to work with the patient who was violent and unpredictable. This person was known for beating the crap out of employees, and for yanking out huge hunks of hair out of employees' scalps. (The reason why this person is still in "the system" is a LONG story, and best not delved into here.) I had to make the choice to refuse, because it was blatantly obvious that my boss didn't give a damn about my safety. She thought I was unfeeling and terrible because I wasn't willing to give this patient "a chance". ("A chance" for what? To yank out all of my hair? Beat the crap out of me?)

The fact is, we (the employees) usually have to look out for ourselves. It's obviously not our bosses' job to do that for us. I swear, I suspect that some of them would work us to the brink of death, if they could get away with it. Oh, but they'll rationalize, by saying, "Well, if she was that sick, she could have refused to come in!" But, when we do refuse to work, we are terrible people! You can't win for losing.

[RTFirefly]

Y'know, milroy, I didn't think my opinion of you could get much lower. But in this thread, you've managed to reach new depths. I'm impressed, in a funny sort of way. :rolleyes:

[kabbes]

I'm just still gobsmacked by catsix's "I don't believe that any woman is left bent over, sobbing".

I'll just tell the kabbess that the next time that she's bent over sobbing uncontrollably because the pain is so intense. I'm sure that if I simply let her know that some random woman on the internet doesn't believe that her pain is that bad really, she'll just stand right up and declare, "Busted!"

Feh.

pan

[Guinastasia]

Originally posted by milroyj


In fact, it seems she has another "reason" to add to her repetoire, "panic attacks". Whatever. What's wrong with an employer expecting that people actually show up for their shifts?????



All right. That's it. You know what? Why are you even here? You certainly don't seem to be fighting ignorance?

Good god, you're a heartless, unfeeling bastard. Good luck.

I hope to God you are never in a situation where you need therapy or psychiatric care. God help you then.

Whatever, my arse.

[Wisest Novel]

Note to self: Stop trying to make subtle points with humor in the Pit. The ones that need it never get it.

Curious how this thread has spent so much time on menstrual debates, isn't it? I guess that's human nature, but in an attempt to nudge it back to Guin's original rant (OK, and to try to reduce the TMI level), I'll toss out a couple of pennies.

We all know that there are as many leadership and management styles out there as there are leaders and managers. I've spent the last 20 years in various leadership positions in both the public and private sectors, but have also made something of a study of ledership techniques themselves.

My observations (and that's all I'm basing this on; skip to next post if you're not awed by my credentials) are that, like most aspects of leadership, time-off policies can be lumped into two categories, or schools of thought. I should probably find more even-handed terms for them, but I think of them as the Short View and Long View.

Managers who take the Short View look no farther than the most immediate benefit/disadvantage; in this case, the work schedule. They, or someone working for them, has spent considerable time and effort getting the schedule "just right," and I'll be the last to deny that it's a real drag when something happens to throw a wrench in the works. It's worse when the notice given is short or nil, as is usually the case with illness. Beside the scheduling headaches, these absences adversely affect customer service (longer queues, missed commitments), cost (overtime for the fill-in), and sometimes morale. For a business to compete, all of those have to be minimized, which is of course the manager's job. If it wasn't difficult, we'd have high school interns handle it (they work almost as cheaply as I do!). Looking at the Short View only, a manager would be a fool to grant any time off he/she didn't absolutely have to. "Denied! Resubmit in 30 days for further denials!"

The Long View manager understands those short-term impacts, but also looks ahead to other consequences. I mentioned most of these in my earlier post, but didn't really draw attention to them. As they're (still) fairly self-evident, I'll continue to just list all but two: preventing contagion of other workers & customers, preventing poor customer service, and maintaining workplace safety (illness reduces reaction time). In addition, encouraging slightly ill workers to come in can cause illnesses to go untreated (even if the only "treatment" denied is rest), inviting longer absences. Incidentally, I apply the same rule of thumb to life events like moving, day care crises, etc. I'd rather give you a day off now to get your affairs in order than have you distracted for the next two weeks.

However, it's been my experience that the most important factor in deciding time-off matters is employee morale (note that this is the only one listed under both views). It's true that allowing a given employee excessive time off can have a negative impact on the rest of the team. But this must be balanced by the positive effect it can have on the employee in question. If applied consistently and with common sense, a liberal policy spreads this positive effect across the team, more than negating any bad vibes. It's important to be clear about communicating this. I inform all employees that I am in fact quite willing to grant sick/personal days, and will mostly rely on their judgement of when they need them. In return, I expect that they'll honor my requests for overtime or extended hours, relying on my judgement for when that's required. I've had very good results with this policy, and have found over time that having my subordinates willing rally when I really need them more than offsets the occasional hiccup in my schedule due to being understaffed.

Finally, I wanted to address the point several Guinastasia critics made about abuse of time off. It happens, and it's a problem. But I disagree that the solution is to "fix" the problem with a draconian policy for granting sick leave. Invariably, those who abuse time-off policies have poor work ethics. The overwhelming percentage also usually have other performance problems as well. Therefore, the best approach is to performance manage (I had to get in at least one management buzzword) these folks so that they either change their performance or leave the company.

In short (too late!), if you're one of the poor souls who works for me, I really don't need to hear how many ccs of fluid have passed out various orfices lately, and it's not relevant how your cramps or headache compare to a swift kick in the nards. I don't even care if you can't make it in because your ex slashed your tires or you need to get Grandpa in a new nursing home because the old one burned down. If I can't trust you to make adult decisions and take your job as seriously as I do, I'm gonna can your ass and find someone who will.

[Jurhael]

WOW! Wisest Novel, you sound like one of the better managers out there! It's no suprise that you'd get some semblance of loyality from your employees. ehehee If only more of them were like you!

"Invariably, those who abuse time-off policies have poor work ethics."

Hmm...I believe that. See, I figure that if someone DOES lie about being sick, they'd run out of sick days if they're not careful. What if they REALLY get sick? Uh oh! Out of sick days! T-O-O B-A-D. A karma sort of thing!

However, I believe that people with poor work ethics should not be working AT ALL. I kind of get irritated when people boo hoo about laziness, don't want to work, etc...and the sort because if someone is that bad, why would you want them to work at all? Why are some people sickeningly intent on enforcing their own work ethics on other people? Doesn't that just make things worse?

"The overwhelming percentage also usually have other performance problems as well."

I imagine so. That's no surprise there.

"I swear, I suspect that some of them would work us to the brink of death, if they could get away with it."

1800's USA/England. They did just that. It took a slew of effort to have even have 8 hour work days and the minimum wage among other things. Some of them? Well, I'd have to say a lot of them would...:(

"Oh, but they'll rationalize, by saying, "Well, if she was that sick, she could have refused to come in!" But, when we do refuse to work, we are terrible people! You can't win for losing."

Indeed.

[Guinastasia]

Exactly. You try to call off, and they insist you come in-and then get angry when you come in hacking your lungs out.

*sigh*


My work ethic is just fine. My employee morale, however, is nil....and dropping.

[OxyMoron]

You know, Catsix, one day it will happen to you.

And for the sake of karma, I hope your boss is as nasty, thickheaded and robotic as - well, not as Guin's boss is..

But as you are.

You must be an inspiration to your employees. Provided contempt is what you are seeking to inspire.

If you don't have any, then I certainly hope you never will.

[milroyj]

My participation in this thread has been a train wreck from the get-go, and it's entirely my fault. My comments were unwarranted and uncalled for. I'm not going to try and make an excuse, because I realize there isn't any. My sincerest apologies especially to Guin and anyone else I have offended.

Regards to all.

[anu-la1979]

I'm not sure if anyone actually posted an answer to catsix's statement about it not being possible to be in that much pain unless there is something wrong and to see a doctor to fix it but I'll post it again...

It's dysmenorrhea. Some people suffer for long periods (no pun intended!) of time and never figure out what it is...but it is a real medical condition for many women. I know there are different types of dysmennorhea (or they are classified) based on "why" someone gets it I believe. I suffer from your garden variety form-I would say moderately-although even the moderate pain is absolutely gut wrenching. When I was in my early teens I wasn't able to go to school on the first day of my period each month because I was running a fever, vomiting and basically crouched over muttering to myself about how much I hated being a woman. I'm not a doctor and it's been years since I was diagnosed but I think it has to do with excessive prostagladins.

There are a couple of "cures" to it but even then, these don't work for everyone...

I have a prescription for high strength doses of naproxen sodium-and the reason I say that I probably have a mild to moderate case is that I can control the mind-numbing agony, oops, cramps by taking a couple more of these than I should on the bad day.

I know some people are prescribed birth control as another method of easing them.

I do know people that have tried both and neither work. One person I know is on really high strength doses of ibuprofen. Another is exploring homeopathic solutions.

Oh but believe me when I say they are more than just simple cramps. I would be fainting and unable to work. As it is, I am lucky enough that I can down two prescription naproxens and be good for about four hours before I down two more. That's double what I'm supposed to take. The only time I have skipped out b/c of period woe is when the naproxen has been out of my reach and actually my boss even sent me home one of those times because he could sense something was drastically wrong with me.

[happyheathen]

really high strength doses of ibuprofen


PLEASE do not self-medicate with large doses of ibuprofen - IIRC, this can result in massive internal bleeding and truly excruiating death.

being male, I have nothing to say re. OP

[anu-la1979]

My little disclaimer:

Hell no! That's not what I was trying to say at all. That one is my sister-her doctor gave her some sort of higher dose of advil-type medicine. I know it is not naproxen, she says it is ibuprofen-i can check later. In any case, nothing seems to work for the wee soul.

Also I'm not a doctor, I do suffer from dysmenorrhea and was diagnosed by a doctor though. I know a couple of other people that have been diagnosed and as far as I know the naproxen and the birth control are the most common solutions we've been given. My information is along the lines of "hey, I have it and here's my anecdotal recounting of it." Go to your own doctors to find out what to do.

[anu-la1979]

Also the naproxen tablets I take are merely higher concentrations of the medicine called "Aleve," I believe.

[Guinastasia]

milroyj-class act. Thank you. :)

[pepperlandgirl]

I know some people are prescribed birth control as another method of easing them.

Best thing that ever happened to me. My period only lasts 3-4 days rather than 6-9, and the cramps go away with one or two midol.

[Gravity]

I know what it's like to work in a failing retail store.
I worked for the Grand Union company for 3 1/2 years as a cashier. Even though we were the GU with the highest sales in our area, we were worked on a skeleton crew.
For insurance, I had to pay more than 10% of my paycheck for health insurance that had a $1200 deductible, no dental, no eye.
Morale was unbelieveably low.
There were no paid sick days. If you can't work, then you just don't get paid for that cut of your 26 hours.

It sucks. It sucks a lot. I have no doubt that the stress, uncertainty and low morale contributed to the high sick rate that my co-workers had. The vast majority of them really were sick, too.
More than once, when I tried to call in, I was talked into coming in anyway. Several times I went home halfway through my shift because I just couldn't stay.

I am very grateful that I now have a job where my judgement isn't questioned when I call in, with good insurance. Even having what I do now, it's not a situation that I am ever going to forget being in, and I feel for anyone in that situation.

[Meliadus]

A word from socialist Europe.

Personally, I am what would correspond in the States to a “contractor”. If I don’t work a day, I dont get paid for that day. So the situation does not apply to me.

My wife, however, is regularly employed. If she calls in sick, she would be taking a serious chance if she left the house for any reason, as her employers have the right (and do, on a statistical basis) to send a doctor to our home to check up on her status. If she says she has a fever, she may be called upon to demonstrate it.

It has occurred that she had the ‘flu, or back pains, or menstrual cramps (I think there is less shyness about saying so openly here, but that is only my opinion), and has remained at home. On such occaisions, she will not leave the house even to do some quick shopping (the shops are in easy walking distance). Failure to be present during a medical visit could lead to serious repercussions.

The difference may be in the health care systems, or it's just another example of the fundamental evils of dog-eat-dog jungle capitalism.

[Ferret Herder]

Just checking in with some 'I had bad cramps' anecdotal comments. When I started college I went on oral contraceptives to minimize menstrual cramps which were, at the time, uncomfortable but not debilitating. This changed with time, however. My periods grew extremely heavy and lengthened in duration, to the point where I needed the thickest pads and had to change them frequently; the flow was that strong for a week or longer and would then taper off. My cramps became debilitating, to the point where it felt like someone was taking my internal organs in my pelvis, tying them in knots, and then punching me in my pelvis. At its worst times I would lie in bed in a fetal position, knees drawn up to my chest, and cry, and my housemates would occasionally come in and talk to me, obviously very worried. I kept trying different pain relief medications, and upping the dosage past the label recommendations. My doctor kept changing the type of oral contraceptives I was on, but we had to give each type a month or two to work and see how it went. They even went so far as to do an exploratory endoscopy to check to see if I had fibroids or endometriosis, an extremely painful condition in which tissue that normally lines the uterus grows in the body cavity outside the uterus, and bleeds each month at the time of the period. Fortunately the exam came back negative and they were finally able to find something that worked for me, a particular dosage of oral contraceptive, plus a prescription of Anaprox DS (double strength, so essentially 4 Aleve) - it was not at that time available over-the-counter.

To Guin - sorry if this was brought up before, it's a long thread and I may have missed it. Do you have a Planned Parenthood in your area? They charge on a sliding scale based on your ability to pay, and will do an examination to see if an oral contraceptive might work for you. As in my case, it might take some time to find the particular dosage and combination of hormones that works with your body, but seeing a doctor is important. If they can find a way that you don't have to live with this pain any longer, it's worth it. Trust me.

[Guinastasia]

I'll check it out, thanks. My mother had endometriosis for a time, and my aunt had to have a hysterectomy because of it.

However, I'd have to watch taking the pill, as I'm already on both paxil and ritalin. *sigh*

:(

[Marley]

I just remembered something that happened to a man I knew a few years ago.

His grandfather died in his sleep, unexpectedly. He got the call about his grandfather early in the morning, and when he had pulled himself back together the first thing he did was to call work to let them know he wouldn't be there.

His boss told him to come in anyway.

A very loud argument followed. The boss insisted that he come in anyway, then told him to take the morning off and come in that afternoon. When he said he wouldn't be in until after the wake (three days, and company policy for "death in the family" leave,) I could hear the boss shrieking at him.

I heard the whole call from a foot away. I could clearly hear the boss shrieking through the telephone handset.

The boss' logic: he'd never had a death in his family, but some time ago his friend died (no doubt his only friend,) and he'd gone into work anyway, and he expected the same sort of dedication from his employees. After all, it's not like it was his mother who died.

There are some bosses who, if an employee called to say that their writing hand had been chopped off and they were bleeding to death, the boss would ask them to come in anyway because "you have to sign for something."