Jesus Christ rose after three days....WHY 3 days?

[Cartooniverse]

I was trying to explain the Resurrection to the kids. We're not any religion in our household, but that doesn't mean we don't talk about different faiths.

They asked me how anyone knew it was three days, and was three days somehow significant. Is it????

Why was he not Resurrected that evening, or the next morning? I promise the Teeming Millions, this is not a tongue-in-cheek thread in ANY way. I'm asking this with all due respect.

Was there something about the three days that is significant???

Happy Easter to those who mark it's passing,

Happy Passover to those who mark it's passing,

Happy Weekend to those who are kicking back with no higher agenda.

Cartooniverse

[Ukulele Ike]

(singing) Threeeeeeee...it's a magic number!

Three's the integer that's been used for supernatural stuff going back to the dawn of time. Seems to be part of Spiritus Mundi, or Jung's collective unconsciousness. Three wishes; three bears; three Magi; the Holy Trinity; Faith, Hope, and Charity, three Stooges, you name it.

[käse]

it takes some time, coming out of your grave, you know.

[HubZilla]

Actually, it wasn't really 3 days. In Matthew 12:40, JC said he would be underground for 3 days and three nights. Kind of a neat trick if you go in on Friday night and are up and running Sunday morning.

Then again, Jesus was never too keen on prophesy. Ask any Jew.

[Cartooniverse]

You know, I made it as clear as I could in my O.P. that this was a serious query. I was hoping that some of our more scholarly Dopers would chime in and offer me some place to go and check out the proofs, such as they may be.

HubZilla, take it to the Pit if you feel the need to slam anyone else's faith. I didn't start this thread for it to degenerate into a mud-slinging party.

Please don't ruin my thread, and the discussion it might engender.

:(

Cartooniverse

[rjung]

Maybe I'm being insensitive today, but I didn't see any particular offense in HubZilla's post. Seems to me that (after addressing the OP) Hub was just making an off-the-cuff comment about Jesus' adherance to phophecies. It's certainly not the kind of "Who cares? It's all fairy tales anyway" type of slamming that I might've done, f'r instance. :)

In any event, I'd bet Ukulele Ike hit it on the head -- three has long been considered a magic number, and three days and three nights (as pointed out by HubZilla) seems like an appropriately mystic time to wait.

Either that, or Jesus consulted with his manager about how long he should lay low for his trick to have maximum effect. ;) (joke!)

[Cartooniverse]

A very learned friend offered this hypotheses:

Waiting three days after his death was the way to insure that he was REALLY dead, opposed to just in a near-death state. If one said he'd arise the next morning, there was that chance that he might not be dead.


Wait three days, and you pretty much insure that he had died.

Interesting point of view.

[AbbySthrnAccent]

This doesn't so much answer your op as to significance, but it addresses HubZilla's remarks regarding the prophecies.

From Jesus the Christ, p 697 by James E. Talmage"Our Lord definately predicted His resurrection from the dead on the third day, (Matt 16:21; 17:12;20:19; Mark 9:31; 10:34; Luke 9:22; 13:32; 18:33), and the angels at the tomb (Luke 24:7)m, and the risen Lord in person (Luke 24:46) verified the fulfillment of the prophecies; and apostles so testified in later years (Acts 40:40; 1 Cor 15:4). this specification of the third day must not be understood as meaning after three full days. The Jews began their counting of the daily hours with sunset; therefore the hour before sunset and the hour follwoing belonged to different days. Jesus died and was interred during Friday afternoon. His body lay in the tomb, dead, during part of Friday (first day), throughout Saturday, or as we divide the days, from sunset Friday to Sunset Saturday, (second day), and part of Sunday (third day). We know not at what hour between Saturday sunset and Sunday dawn He rose."

[AbbySthrnAccent]

Sorry folks for the typo's they are mine, not the author's.

[ultrafilter]

Originally posted by Cartooniverse
A very learned friend offered this hypotheses:

Waiting three days after his death was the way to insure that he was REALLY dead, opposed to just in a near-death state. If one said he'd arise the next morning, there was that chance that he might not be dead.


Wait three days, and you pretty much insure that he had died.

Interesting point of view.

I dunno...this doesn't quite hold water in my mind, although I may be biased by an extra 2000 years of medical knowledge. When the Roman centurion put the spear in Jesus's body, the fluid from his lungs came out; I'd think that'd be proof that he was dead (and not only that, but it'd be tough to stick a spear that far into someone without killing them). Just a though, YMMV, etc.

[Tuckerfan]

Don't feel bad, Cartooniverse, the great mythologist Joseph Campbell was also puzzled by the whole three days bit. The best answer I've been able to find is in Bible Myths and Their Parallels in Other Religions by T. W. Doane. I'm quoting from memory here, so this answer is a bit sketchy as I can't find the particular cite in the book. Basically it boils down to the fact that during the new moon phase of the moon it is invisible for three days (at least when one is in the Caucasus mountains). So it's a tradition from very, very ancient times that has been picked up by every other religion since then.

[Sam Stone]

Part of the reason for the 3 days is because I believe there was a prophecy in the old testament that said the messiah would rise after 3 days. If you believe in God, then it was 3 days in order to fulfill the prophecy. If you don't, well... Then it was 3 days in order to fulfill the prophecy.

[biker]

you ask a religious question and then get hacked off because of an answer. anyone that has the balls to ask a religious question better have the stomach to hear any answer.

the answer to your question is really quite simple. the whole story is a myth, so who cares how many days it was.

[nineiron]

It's a mystery to me why someone's posting a religious question takes "balls," as biker put it. What's ballsy/nervy about asking a legitimate question?

Biker, the OP made it quite clear (and very politely so) that your kind of post was not desired. The question also didn't ask you to believe, if you choose not to. The question asked why three is such a significant number.

[biker]

there is no such thing as a "legitimate" religious question. religion is all based on "belief," not fact. how can you ask a question wanting a factual answer, when the question is based on "belief."

the point was, if you are going to ask a question about a topic as inflammable as religion you better be prepared for any type of answer.

there are major wars currently going on in all parts of the world and they are all religious wars. people killing one another over their "beliefs." can anything be more ridiculous?

if you want answers to religious questions watch "power of the myth" by joseph campbell. that explains the basis for all religions.

[biker]

there is no such thing as a "legitimate" religious question. religion is all based on "belief," not fact. how can you ask a question wanting a factual answer, when the question is based on "belief."

the point was, if you are going to ask a question about a topic as inflammable as religion you better be prepared for any type of answer.

there are major wars currently going on in all parts of the world and they are all religious wars. people killing one another over their "beliefs." can anything be more ridiculous?

if you want answers to religious questions watch "power of the myth" by joseph campbell. that explains the basis for all religions.

[stockton]

Three is the number of days required to determine that -
IF he sees his shadow...
Six more weeks of winter. Glad to get this back on the OP and negate those hijackers!

[nineiron]

Biker...

I'm sorry to inform you that you are just plain wrong. There IS indeed a FACTUAL answer to the question "What is the significance of the three days' duration?" If you don't believe in it, that doesn't change the fact that X or Y is the reason for the three days, as opposed to 5 or 6...even if it's just a myth as you believe.

Analogy for the non-Christians: I don't believe in Santa Claus, but there is a factual answer to the question, "In Clement Moore's poem, how did St. Nick enter the house?" If you were asked this question, would you answer, "There is no answer, because Santa Claus is a myth"? The reason why this isn't in Great Debates is that the OP does not want to debate anyone's beliefs or non-beliefs. He/she just wants to know a bit of the history/significance of the religion.

Your mentioning holy wars going on is completely irrelevant, by the way, to the question at hand. Yes, we know there are holy wars going on...but that has little or nothing to do with the question about the significance of three days.

[biker]

i hope nineiron plays golf better than he debates. you keep missing the entire point here. i will spell it out for you one last time.

the person who originally asked the religious question got upset because he did not like someone's answer.

THAT IS WHAT I AM TAKING ISSUE WITH!!!!!

[11811]

Yeah, three days was the period considered necessary to prove death beyone doubt. It also makes Jonah's story a neat foreshadowing: three days he was in the belly of the beast and then emerged.

[BiblioCat]

Originally posted by biker
the person who originally asked the religious question got upset because he did not like someone's answer.The OP specifically asked that no one give smart-alecky answers. He (she?) was look for a factual answer.
Biker also said:
...there is no such thing as a "legitimate" religious question What? Of course there is. That is a ridiculous statement.


Life-long Lutheran here. I'm certainly no Biblical scholar, but as far as I know, the prophecy stated that the Messiah would rise again after three says, and I think at the Last Supper Jesus himself said he would rise again after three days. As mentioned before, three is a significant number in the Bible. That's about as good an answer as I can give.

From this site (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=MARK+8&language=english&version=RSV&showfn=on&showxref=on):
Mark 8: 29 And he asked them, "But who do you say that I am?" Peter answered him, "You are the Christ."
30 And he charged them to tell no one about him.
31 And he began to teach them that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
32 And he said this plainly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him.

[Jonathan Chance]

Originally posted by biker
there are major wars currently going on in all parts of the world and they are all religious wars. people killing one another over their "beliefs." can anything be more ridiculous?

That should come as quite a surprise to the FARC in Colombia.

[CalMeacham]

IIRC, Mithras also arose after three days underground in the cult of Mithraism.


After I did my book on Medusa, I noted the thgree-day period of the variable star Algol (Beta Persei), which has minima spaced about 70 hours apart. The star remains second magnitude for most of the 70 hours, dimming out over about a six-hour period, then re-appared over anoith six hour period as the darker companion eclipses the brighter one. I've wondered if this might have contributed to the frequent three-day burials in the world's stories. (Not only did Jonah spend three days in the belly of the "great fish", so did Hercules spend three days in the belly of the sea moinster Ketos.)

[Why A Duck]

It could also have something to do with the timing of events. According to tradition, Christ was crucified on a Friday, and his preparation and burial were hurried so that he could be entombed before sunset, the start of the Sabbath.

Assuming that for whatever reason, he didn't want to come back during the Sabbath (or his reservations required a Saturday night stay - dammit, I was going to try to get through this without a smart-aleck comment, my apologies), then after sunset on Saturday would've been the first available opportunity.

[Cartooniverse]

biker, I took umbrage with what was clearly a cheap shot. You saidyou ask a religious question and then get hacked off because of an answer. anyone that has the balls to ask a religious question better have the stomach to hear any answer. What I was responding to was what HubZilla said hereThen again, Jesus was never too keen on prophesy. Ask any Jew.
So, let's be reeeeally clear about it. I thought he was out of line, I said something. Having the "balls" or not is irrelevant. I asked for someone to provide me with some factual information on why the IDEA of Three Days holds water. A lot of Dopers have, and I thank them for it.

Throwing out the concept of Jihad in this thread is useless. You want to debate religious war? Dandy. Go and start your own thread in the Pit, or in Great Debates.

The reasons why certain numbers have gained significance is not a matter of a Great Debate, it's pure scholarly fact.
It is those facts I sought, and those facts I am now reading, and learning from. Why A Duck, CalMeacham, BibliCat, AbbySthrnAccent, Chrome Spot and others have all offered very thoughtful answers.

I'm sorry that you find the process irritating. People go to the BBQ Pit to pick fights. I know, I've had some dandy ones there. I'd invite you to vent in the proper Forum, and leave this one to the more scholarly queries at hand.

Or, was I not being clear just now? :rolleyes:

[nineiron]

(Sigh.) Biker, biker, biker.

It's not that the OP didn't LIKE the answers; it's that they didn't answer the question. If I go back to my Santa Claus question, and your answer is "plum pudding," it's not merely a matter of my not liking your answer, it's that your answer does not address the topic. Your statement that there is no such thing as a legitimate question on religion was, is, and shall continue to be preposterous.

Your claim about my debating skills was a hoot too. Since the thread started, you have committed fallacy after fallacy. Let's see...you attacked religion as a diversionary tactic, bringing your own beliefs into a factual question. Hmm...then you attacked my debating skills rather than address the topic. Yep, you're right on the ball.

Oh, I have a relgious question. Where does the Pope live? Hold it a second; I believe that does have a factual answer, doesn't it? And saying "Neptune" wouldn't merely not be an answer I didn't "like." It would, in fact, be an irrelevant one. Can you follow my analogy?

[biker]

ouch, ouch, ouch, those christians are throwing stones again...

[FriendRob]

Originally posted by Chrome Spot
Yeah, three days was the period considered necessary to prove death beyone doubt. It also makes Jonah's story a neat foreshadowing: three days he was in the belly of the beast and then emerged.

This is the explanation I've heard, too. There is also the emphasis on "three days dead" in the story of Lazarus. So "3 days" means "really really dead".

[...takes a deep breath and resists inserting Monty Python ripoff here....]

[RiverRunner]

biker,
You have yet to contribute anything constructive towards this thread, instead choosing to vent your spleen while ignoring everything that has been posted. If you decide to actually contribute something, feel free; otherwise, take to the Pit.


RR

[Newton meter]

Originally posted by biker
ouch, ouch, ouch, those christians are throwing stones again...

Why do you assume that anyone who is interested in an answer to the question, and preventing this thread from being crapped all over, is a Christian?

[JillGat]

This is not Great Debates and it's not the Pit. Please refrain from insults against other posters and religious debates in this forum. If you can't respond appropriately to the OP's question, please don't respond in this thread at all. Thank you. - Jill

[Threadkiller]

See also: Jesus Christ raising Lazarus from the dead (John 11:1-45) (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=John+11&language=english&version=KJV). In this account Lazarus had been dead four days before being restored to health. This is typically not listed as resurrection which Jesus would later undergo but rather as an example of Christ's power over death. This is usually used as a strong proof of the power of Jesus since no one else could have pulled this off.

biker nice chip, keep it up and you will attain BANNED status. Too bad, I like your username.

[plnnr]

He's not only merely dead, he's really quite sincerely dead.

Everything I've ever come across related to this question had to do with the fear of premature burial that early civilizations had. As has been posted, if you were declared dead and stayed dead for a set number of days you could safely assume to really be dead. I don't know why the general populace would assume that you may faking it.

Isn't three days the length of time that a person has to be dead before they can come back as a zombie? Given the connection between voodoo and the Catholic church I can see where the connection could be made.

[biker]

ok, ok i promise to be nice, took some pain medication, feeling better now. will take my humorous comments to the pit where i guess i belong.

thanks for explaining the rules and shutting me up.

[bobk2]

Just for the record, exactly where in the Old Testament or elsewhere is any or all of the birth/life/death/resurrection of the Saviour prohesized? It seems that a lot of the readings in (Roman Catholic, anyhow) church services refer to fulfillment or prohecy, but I don't recall ever hearing about the prophecies themselves.

Anyone got a cite?

[BiblioCat]

bobk2, the site I mentioned, Bible Gateway (http://bible.gospelcom.net/) is a good place for looking up specific passages in various books of the Bible, either using key words or by known passages, and also using your choice of Bible versions, but I can't find anything like what you are looking for. Maybe someone more Bible-literate than me will have more luck.

[AbbySthrnAccent]

Originally posted by bobk2
Just for the record, exactly where in the Old Testament or elsewhere is any or all of the birth/life/death/resurrection of the Saviour prohesized? It seems that a lot of the readings in (Roman Catholic, anyhow) church services refer to fulfillment or prohecy, but I don't recall ever hearing about the prophecies themselves.

Anyone got a cite?

Isaiah 7:14 fulfilled in Matthew 1:18-23

Isaiah 9:6 fulfilled Luke 2:4-7

Micah 5:2 Says Jesus will be born in Bethlehem

I'm at work and those are the only old testament ones I can think of without checking. I didn't bother with the ones from the Book of Mormon, but there are prophecies of his birth there too. If you're interested feel free to email me rather than continue to hijack Toon's thread. (Although I'm sure he won't get mad at me. :D )

Abb

[bup]

*Does* it specifically say anywhere three days?

Apart from the fact that it was just about 36 hours from Friday sunset to Sunday sunrise, which makes three days quite a stretch...

Does it say he was there until Sunday morning? When the women go to the tomb on Sunday morning, the angel doesn't say, "Hey! You just missed him! He was here like, 2 minutes ago!" He just says that Christ is risen.

[kambuckta]

Why three days?

'Cos if it had been any longer he would have started to smell a bit whiffy...........



C'mon, somebody had to say it! :p

[Sofa King]

I recall that early Arthurian legend is totally obsessed with the number three as well. In fact, it's kind of annoying to read Geoffrey of Monmouth once you're onto the trick, sort of like our buddy Cervaise and his "goddamn curtain wipe" in Battlefield Earth (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/click/source-816/reviews.php?sortby=movie&page=1&rid=216726). Here, do a ctrl+f for "three" on this page (http://www.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/geofhkb.htm) and you'll see what I mean.

Yet more on the triad:

http://www.greatdreams.com/three/three.htm

This page points out that three points creates the first geometric figure which encloses space, which is somehow divine. Things sorta go into outer space from there, but in another spot it mentions that in Genesis, the Big Guy raised the earth out of the seas on the third day, a sort of symbolic resurrection. Hey, I'm just pointing it out.

I don't have anything to back this up, but I think the divinity of the number three may have something to do with dice, which have been used for gambling pretty much as far back as you can go. Three shows up in the possible two-dice combinations from four to nine, in the gentle, benevolent part of the probability curve. But if you're regularly betting on an ace chasing a deuce, well, you'd better be prepared to face God's vengeance.

[Polycarp]

biker, there is absolutely no reason for taking your issues to the Pit, unless you have some particular venting you feel that you need to do against believers generally or any particular believer or group of believers.

Great Debates is the place for argumentation on the issues of religion, including whether or not there are any grounds for belief. (In fact, there's a thread over there right now dealing with How can anyone justify belief in God (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=106034).

Be it noted, however, that whether or not any particular story is a myth or whether many Christians or whatevers don't think through why they may believe is not adequate grounds for arguing against belief, just as "because the Bible says so" is not adequate grounds for arguing for belief. Stop over and examine the arguments, and throw in your views and why you hold them. You may be pleasantly surprised at the quality of the dialogue.

[AbbySthrnAccent]

Originally posted by bup
[B]*Does* it specifically say anywhere three days?


Matthew 12:40 as mentioned by HubZilla earlier in this thread.

Originally posted by bobk2
Just for the record, exactly where in the Old Testament or elsewhere is any or all of the birth/life/death/resurrection of the Saviour prohesized? It seems that a lot of the readings in (Roman Catholic, anyhow) church services refer to fulfillment or prohecy, but I don't recall ever hearing about the prophecies themselves.

More now that I am home, as promised:

Isa. 44:24 The Creator, Jehovah, would take a mortal body in order to redeem mankind.

Isa. 9:6-7 He would be the Son of God, the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh, the God of Israel.

Gen. 49:24; Isa. 7:14; Isa. 11:1; Jer. 23:5-6; Jer. 33:15-16 His mother would be a virgin, a descendant of Jacob through King David; she would be from Nazareth, and her name would be Mary.

Ex. 15:2; Isa. 12:2-6 The Messiah would be called “Salvation” (in Hebrew, Yeshua; in English, Jesus).

Micah 5:2 Christ would be born among the Jews near Jerusalem at a place called Bethlehem.

Isa. 40:3 A messenger prophet would prepare the way for Messiah’s mission.

Hosea 11:1 Christ would come out of Egypt.

Isa. 53:3 He would suffer temptations, hunger, thirst.

Isa. 61:1 He would preach glad tidings.

Isa. 40:10-11; Ezek. 34:11-31 He would care for his followers as a shepherd.

Isa. 59:16-19 He would minister performing miracles.

Isa. 59:20 He would come to Zion (Jerusalem).

Zech. 9:9 He would come riding on a young ass.

Ps. 118:21-22; Isa. 8:13-14; Isa. 53:3 He would be a stumbling block to his people, who would reject him.

Ps. 41:9; Zech. 11:12-13; Zech. 13:6 He would be betrayed by his friends for thirty pieces of silver.

Isa. 50:6; Isa. 53:7 Christ would yield himself to suffer.

Isa. 53:9 He would be innocent of violence and deceit.

Isa. 53:3-12 He would suffer to atone for our sins and help our sicknesses; blood would come from every pore.

Isa. 53:8 He would be judged and placed in prison.

Gen. 22:1-14; Lev. 16:7-10 Foreshadowings of his suffering.

Isa. 53:7, 9, 12 Christ would die voluntarily.

Ps. 22:16; Isa. 22:23-25; Zech. 12:10; Zech. 13:6 His hands and feet would be pierced.

Ps. 22:7-8; Isa. 50:6 He would be mocked and suffer pain and thirst.

Ps. 69:20-21 He would be given vinegar to drink.

Ps. 22:1; Ps. 31:5 He would speak specific words from the cross.

Ps. 34:19-20 None of his bones would be broken.

Ps. 22:18 Lots would be cast for his garments.

Gen. 22:1-14; Ex. 12; Ex. 16:12-35; Ex. 17:1-7; Ex. 29; Lev. 1-17; Lev. 21-23; Num. 19; Num. 21:5-9; Ezek. 43:18-27; Ezek. 45:18-25 Clear foreshadowings of his atonement and death.

1 Sam. 2:6; Job 19:25-27; Ps. 16:9-10; Isa. 25:8; Isa. 26:19; Ezek. 37:12-13; Hosea 13:14 Others would be resurrected because he overcame death.

[Edited by TubaDiva to remove coding/quoting error.]

[AbbySthrnAccent]

I know I should have previewed!