Did George Washington have a southern accent?

[Spoke]

I just got through watching the A&E movie "The Crossing," featuring Jeff Daniels as George Washington. Of course, Mr. Daniels gave his usual delivery, without any discernable accent.

Here's the thing. George Washington was from Virginia. For that matter, so were Thomas Jefferson and various others of our founding fathers. Yet, in the dozens of portrayals of these gentlemen on television and in film, I have never once seen them portrayed as having a southern accent.

Now bear with me here. The Jamestown colony was founded in Virginia in 1609. It seems to me that by the time the Revolution rolled around 167 years later, there would have been ample time for the southern colonies to have developed the accent and dialect for which they are now known.

So what's the scoop? Are we being victimized by some dark Yankee conspiracy to de-southernize George, Tom and the boys?

Are there any contemporary accounts which might reveal whether, at the time of the Revolution, the southern accent was already prevalent? Anyone?

[Cooper]

Well, there are lots of variations on the 'southern' accent. Doubtless George Washington did not speak midwestern standard (the language spoken on television and movies). I imagine that his accent was closest to the upper-crust 'southern-aristocrat' accent - something very similar to a British accent, but with more twang. Or something.

[Sycorax]

If you're a native Georgian, I know YOU'VE got a southern accent! ;) As for George, I think it's hard to say what kind of accents anyone had over 200 years ago. I'm sure they've evolved. My WAG would be that a "southern" accent as we know it did not exist at that time, and that there would have been some remnant of the British accent. BTW, I haven't noticed a southern accent on my visits to Northern Virginia.

[Strainger]

Actually, based on writings (e.g. misspellings) from the day, it has been determined that, IIRC, the British and those living in the U.S. colonies had accents that were similar to each other, but different from how most of us speak today, on either side of the Atlantic. This had been discussed in a couple of threads several months ago. I'll see if I can find the link now that we have a decent search engine.

[Jois]

George's older brother (older half brother) was educated in England, wasn't he? George wasn't prepared to inherit - i.e. educated in England, too. But it would seem logical that his family still spoke in the Brit accent of the day.

So which Brit accent of the day would that be?

A drawl?



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Oh, I'm gonna keep using these #%@&* codes 'til I get 'em right.

[Triskadecamus]

Sycorax mentions
BTW, I haven't noticed a southern accent on my visits to Northern Virginia.

Them folks wadd'n born round heya.

          Of course, neither was George. He was born down south of here, in what is called the Northern Neck. I assure you, the people who live there now have southern accents. I am sure that they had a pattern of speaking which was distinct from that of Philadelphians, or Bostonians of the time. God only knows what they sounded like in New York, in 1776.

<P ALIGN="CENTER">Tris</P>
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"This institution will be based upon the illimitable freedom of the human mind. For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it."
-- Thomas Jefferson (on the University of Virginia)
Wow, it's taking a lot longer than we thought!

[Jois]

Tris - ain't nobody born round heya. I'n not even sure this is living.

[Spoke]

Thanks for the response y'all!Yes, Sycorax, being a native of rural Georgia, I do have a southern accent. ;)

Jois wrote:

George's older brother (older half brother) was educated in England,wasn't he? George wasn't prepared to inherit - i.e. educated in England, too. But it would seem logical that his family still spoke in the Brit accent of the day.

First of all, Jois, I don't know whether G.W. was educated in England. Even if he were, though, I can't buy the premise that he must therefore have had a British accent. I myself was educated among all manner of New York and New Jersey natives, yet there is no trace of Brooklynese in my voice. (My Georgia twang remains intact!) I think your accent generally is established by where you were raised, and not by where you may have attended school in your teen years.

I also can't agree that all colonists of the time would have spoken some variation of a British accent. As I pointed out in my original post, the colonists had been in residence in America for nearly 200 years at the time of the Revolution. That seems to me ample time to develop a distinct accent. The ingredients of the southern accent (which I believe comes from an amalgamation of English, Scottish and African influences), had long been in place by the time of the Revolution.

My personal suspicion is that George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, et al. probably did speak in at least some precursor of a southern accent. I would be very interested to learn whether there was any contemporary writings about regional dialects. Strainger, please let me know if you locate any more info on this topic.

Thanks again for the interest in the topic.

[Ursa Major]

I wish I could find a cite, but I do recall Southerners (Pro-French Republicans) commenting on how New Englanders (Federalist Anglophiles) spoke in a fashion similar to that of Englishmen. These comments were made in the pro-Madison, warhawk press prior to the War of 1812, and were meant as insults.

This isn't suprising, the Northerners were more cosmopolitan and had greater contact with English visitors, traders and sailors. Life on the plantations was more isolated and more likely to produce distinct dialects. Influences there would be from the Carribean, New Orleans and Africa, as much as from England.

Only the West was more isolated, and you can clearly see dialect reflected in their writings; ("Yep, I reckon them thar injuns are a might riled.") The Southern writers we are familiar with from the 18th century were all educated aristocrats who would never let their dialect be reflected in their writing. Not until the Civil War, in the letters written home by less formally educated Southerners, do you see the dialect in writing. Lee and other Aristocrats still kept it out of their writing.

Washington almost surely had a southern accent, but he was well traveled (within the colonies) and spent almost all of the war in the North. This would probably have moderated his accent, especially if he was trying to garner the respect of the New Englanders that made up much of his army. His accent might well have changed depending on who he was talking to. This is the case with most of my English and Irish ex-pat. friends.

[Ursa Major]

Oh, "The Crossing".

Good movie, maybe even good military history, not to be confused with good social history. I have a feeling someone pitched the idea like this: "It will be just like 'Patton' except with Geo. Washington!"

My favorite part is where Washington tells Gen. Knox, "Move your fat ass, Henry!" in front of the men. This kind of comment back then would surely have resulted in a glove slap and pistols at dawn.

[Spoke]

Good post, Ursa Major. Thanks for your input. One point you made bears special consideration. You wrote:

Not until the Civil War, in the letters written home by less formally educated Southerners, do you see the dialect in writing.

So by the Civil War, at least, there was a fully-developed southern accent, as evidenced by the letters written home by soldiers.

In my view this reinforces the idea that the southern accent, in some form, must have already been in place by the time of the Revolution. Otherwise, you would have to believe that in the 167 years between initial colonization and the Revolution, southerners continued to speak in essentially British tones, but then in the "four score and seven years" between the Revolution and the Civil War, the southern accent magically emerged.

It is more logical to believe that the southern accent developed gradually, and that it would have been in place, in some form, by the time of the Revolution.

BTW, thank you Strainger, for the link and the additional info.

[Spoke]

Oh yes, Ursa Major, I want to address one other statement you made. You wrote:

Washington almost surely had a southern accent, but he was well traveled (within the colonies) and spent almost all of the war in the North. This would probably have moderated his accent, especially if he was trying to garner the respect of the New Englanders that made up much of his army. His accent might well have changed depending on who he was talking to. This is the case with most of my English and Irish ex-pat. friends.

Two points:

First, you suggest that Washington would have needed to lessen his accent to gain the respect of troops from New England. This implies that some stigma would have attached to a southern accent at the time of the Revolution. I'm not sure that is the case. My own view is that the stigma which presently (or until recently) attached to southern accents is the product of stereotypes in the mass media. (We'll call it the "Beverly Hillbillies Effect".) I am not sure a New Englander at the time of the Revolution would have made the same sort of assumptions, upon hearing a southern accent, that folks tend to make today.

Your point about an accent varying, depending upon the audience, is well-taken. My own accent is considerably less pronounced when I converse with northerners, but as thick as molasses when I chat with the home folks. The change in my accent when speaking to non-southerners does not arise out of any sense of shame or embarrassment, but is to make myself understood. I simply find that if I speak to northerners in full dialect, I wind up having to repeat myself a lot.

Thanks again for your comments.

[Strainger]

Here (http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000024.html) is related thread regarding British and American dialect about 200 years ago. I probably would've had better luck with the search engine if I had spelled "Yosemite" correctly in that thread.

[labradorian]

Doubtless George Washington did not speak midwestern standard (the language spoken on television and movies).

I thought Canadian was the basis of the official language of TV?

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http://members.xoom.com/labradorian/

[SkeptiJess]

I didn't see the movie, but am responding to Ursa Major's comment:

My favorite part is where Washington tells Gen. Knox, "Move your fat ass, Henry!" in front of the men. This kind of comment back then would surely have resulted in a glove slap and pistols at dawn.

Actually, Ursa, according to Don't Know Much About History by Kenneth C. Davis, the incident you quoted did take place. Davis cites Patriots by A. J. Langguth as his source and "Shift that fat ass, Harry, But slowly, or you'll swamp the damned boat" as the exact quote." Acording to Langguth (via Davis), this is how Knox himself recorded the incident after the War. As for the idea that such a comment would provoke a duel -- surely not. Knox and Washington were friends and fellow soldiers. Friendly insults of this type were surely as common then as now.


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Jess
Full of 'satiable curtiosity

[Jois]

The lecture given at Mt Vernon says that George's elder brother/half brother was educated in England.

George who was not due to inherit the property was not educated in England.

Accents are had to shake or take on - Local church preachers and tutors may well have been imported from the old country and reinforced the Washingtons' accents.



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Oh, I'm gonna keep using these #%@&* codes 'til I get 'em right.

[John W. Kennedy]

At the Battle of Monmouth, Washington caught Lee in a cock-up. The language he used is said to have turned the air blue for miles around; witnesses say that he went on for five minutes without once repeating himself, and that strong men fainted at the sound of it.

Even allowing for exaggeration, it appears that the Father of our Country had quite a talent for invective.

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John W. Kennedy
"Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays."
-- Charles Williams

[Spoke]

Jois-

You seem pretty committed to the idea that George Washington had a British accent. Am I reading you correctly? What is the basis for your view?

The South of the Revolutionary years would have been pretty isolated from England. (It does, after all, take a while for a ship to traverse the Atlantic.) Plantation life would have further isolated its citizens. There was no TV or radio, of course, so it's not like the colonists were hearing the mother tongue every day. Do you really think hearing a preacher once a week (who you presume would have a British accent) is going to make a difference? (I probably hear an Australian accent once a week, but it doesn't affect my speech.) In fact, it seems to me more likely that the locals would have a modifying effect on the preacher's accent. (I'm sure he would have been using "y'all" in no time.)

The isolation of the South, the African influence, and the fact that Southerners had been in the New World for nearly 170 years, all seem to argue in favor of the development, by the time of the Revolution, of a distinct accent. Do you disagree? On what basis?

(Thanks, by the way, for clearing up my confusion on whether G.W. was educated in England.)

[Spoke]

Here's another quick point:

It seems to be generally accepted that Robert E. Lee would have had a southern accent. Presumably, he would have picked up as a child. Well, he was born in 1807, so there must have been a southern accent prevalent in the early part of the 19th century, right?

If the accent was already in place by the early part of the 19th century, then why not the latter part of the 18th century (Washington's era)?

Makes sense to me. And it seems far-fetched to believe that in the relatively short time span between the Revolution and the Civil War southerners would have gone from speaking in near-British tones (as some here suggest) to the full-blown southern dialect we see reflected in Confederate soldiers' correspondence.

[Jois]

Well, before I painted myself into a corner with slow drying paint, I called Mt. Vernon and asked--and the answer is "probaby 75% Southern but no where near as Southern as a Richmond accent and 25% English."

They can't get any closer than this, know he was generally soft spoken and that's that.



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Oh, I'm gonna keep using these #%@&* codes 'til I get 'em right.

[Spoke]

Just an update to this thread.

I was gratified to note that the History Channel's series on the founding fathers (aired during the past week) featured Southern accents galore. The words of Thomas Jefferson and Patrick Henry were read with very distinct Southern accents (and I think rightly so), while the words of George Washington were read with a still-distinct, but milder version of the accent.

Finally, the the thought occurs to producers of a documentary: "Hey, what do you know? There were some Southerners around during the Revolution."

Now if only they had read Adams' words with a New England accent...

[Johanna]

in the dozens of portrayals of these gentlemen on television and in film, I have never once seen them portrayed as having a southern accent.

There was the film Jefferson in Paris, where Nick Nolte as Jefferson affected a definite Southern accent. "Oh, if onlih ya cu'd taste mah sweet puhtatas!"

There have been recent discussions on the sci.lang newsgroup speculating what Jefferson's accent would really have sounded like. Apparently the Virginia accent back then was different from both England and the Southern accent of today. They used pronunciations that are now obsolete.

[Spoke]

Ursa Major wrote (oh so long ago):Only the West was more isolated, and you can clearly see dialect reflected in their writings; ("Yep, I reckon them thar injuns are a might riled.") The Southern writers we are familiar with from the 18th century were all educated aristocrats who would never let their dialect be reflected in their writing.

This reminds me: Didn't Daniel Boone (a contemporary of the founding fathers) once carve "Dan'l Boone kilt a bar on this tree" (i.e., "Daniel Boone killed a bear on this tree"), or is that story apocryphal?

If true, that carving seems like a pretty good indication that the southern accent was fully developed very early in our nation's history.

ishmintingas, do you have a link to the discussions to which you refer? I'm curious as to how the folks involved in those discussions arrived at their conclusions.

[Spoke]

Here's that carving (http://www.airtanker.com/mcnally/hart/boone.html). The photo's not too clear, but according to this site, the carving reads "D. Boon cilled a Bar on tree in the year 1760," which is still indicative of a backwoods southern accent.

[stuyguy]

Regarding this quote:

in the dozens of portrayals of these gentlemen on television and in film, I have never once seen them portrayed as having a southern accent.

Say what you will about how goofy Broadway musicals can be, but you must commend the creators of the original production of 1776, (much of the casting of which carried over to the movie version).

Sure they got some of the historical details wrong; but John Cullum (known to most TV viewers as the bar owner in Northern Exposure) used his rich southern accent to great effect as Edward Rutledge, and William Daniels portrayed John Adams with a robust New England twang.

[Sir Rhosis]

FWIW, Sam Neill (Australian, I believe) used a (fairly broad, un-nuanced) Southern accent for his portrayal of Jeffereson in "Sally Hemmings: An American Scandal," the mini-series which aired earlier this year.

Sir

[plnnr]

Let me jump in here, being a native born Virginian and all, and being from the same part of the world as George.

As was pointed out, George Washington is from the part of hte state known as the Northern Neck. It is a long peninsula stretching southeast from Fredericksburg/King George area to Lancaster County. The area was primarily settled by the English and Welsh, and there is, to this day, a very distinct sound to the language spoken there. "Hoos"="house", "moos"="mouse", etc. You can nearly always tell when someone is from the Neck. The sound is even more unadulterated on Tangier Island. You practically need an interpreter. The nearest I've heard it described is by someone from Cornwall, England who said that "they speak just like we do."

Washington was born at Pope's Creek in Westmoreland, but spent much of his formative years in Fredericksburg and with his brother in Northern Virginia. Being more cosmopolitan than the Neck, he probably got the rough edges of his voice rubbed away and I doubt that he had an extreme accent by the time of his adulthood. You should also remember that Washington was always very, very particular about appearances and proper manners. I'm sure that he would have taken great pains to "fit in" with the landed gentry that he managed to marry into (his family wasn't particularly wealthy, but Martha Custis was the richest woman in the Commonwealth when they married).

Thomas Jefferson was from the Piedmont region and, from all accounts, had a high, thin voice that was hard to hear. As for his accent, I imagine that he had even less of a distinct accent than did Washington. Surprisingly, Jefferson may have had more outside influences on his speech than did Washington. In the Neck at the time most everybody was of English descent. In the Valley there were great numbers of Scots, Irish, and Germans (they migrated down the Valley from Philadelphia headed West). Jefferson, who was better educated than Washington, also had the rough edges of his speech worn away.

Robert E. Lee is from Westmorland County as well. If you ever get to the Neck you can see Pope's Creek (not much left there now) and Stratford Hall (Lee's ancestral home) very easily. Stratford is just beautiful and worth the trip. Interestingly enough, Lee and Washington were related. Lee probably had the same accent given his place of birth and upbringing.

This now concludes your Eastern Virginia History lesson for today. Next week, we'll talk about the Battle of Fredericksburg and why Robert E. Lee, after watching his men kill Union soilders by the carload, said "It is good that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it."

[Johanna]

spoke, here is the URL to that thread on sci.lang -- but the link may or may not work --
http://x58.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/viewthread.xp?AN=552209095&search=thread&svcclass=dnyr&ST=PS&CONTEXT=976028795.1544552449&HIT_CONTEXT=976028795.1544552449&HIT_NUM=1&recnum=%3c19991123154234.10947.00001165@ng-bj1.aol.com%3e%231/1&group=sci.lang&frpage=viewthread.xp&back=clarinet

so you can find it at Deja power search

http://www.deja.com/home_ps.shtml

search for the subject "Thomas Jefferson's accent" and you'll find it. It dates from 11/23/1999.

Here are some remarks posted in that thread...The "Virginian" (actually tidewater) accent is based on southwestern English regional dialects, and is
of 17th century origin. (See Fischer, "Albion's Seed").

Several distinct dialects would have coexisted in Jefferson's neighborhood; the Tidewater speech of
the gentry (Jefferson studied at William and Mary), Scots-Irish and German, etc.
> Just saw a TV show in which the actor playing Jefferson
> used a sort of hybrid "Southern" accent, with some weirdnesses, like
> "hewse" for "house"
>
> In Colonial times, *was* there a "Southern" accent as we
> understand it today [...]
>
> Wouldn't Jefferson have spoken more like the people in
> the part of England where his father, Peter Jefferson, came from
>.....

If he said "hewse" for "house," the accent may have been researched. I recall that areas of the
Smokey Mountains, New
England, and Canada (places with a common linguistic heritage, and places rather insulated from the
outside world) share this
pronunciation of the "ow" sound, a speech characteristic that dates back to colonial times.I've been told that "Canadian raising" of /aU/ (the diphthong in "house" and "about") before unvoiced
consonants is a characteristic feature of the speech of southeastern Virginia (the Tidewater region)
and central South Carolina (Columbia and environs).

I've heard this pronunciation, for example, used by South Carolina Senator Fritz Hollings.
Jefferson's father was from Snowdonia, Wales - not England

[Spoke]

Thanks, ishmintingas.

I'm not sure I can agree with some of the statements being made in that discussion.

The "Virginian" (actually tidewater) accent is based on southwestern English regional dialects, and is of 17th century origin. (See Fischer, "Albion's Seed").

Several distinct dialects would have coexisted in Jefferson's neighborhood; the Tidewater speech of the gentry (Jefferson studied at William and Mary), Scots-Irish and German, etc.

True enough, I suppose, but the writter is omitting the major linguistic influence of the African slaves who had been in Virginia for well over 100 years.

Wouldn't Jefferson have spoken more like the people in the part of England [actually Wales] where his father, Peter Jefferson, came from

Well, no. Children tend to take on the accents and dialect of their peers and playmates, rather than the accents of their parents. I see this phenomenon all the time, as folks from Northern states move into rural areas of Georgia. The parents might have a New England twang, or a nasal Midwestern accent, but their children born in Georgia wind up with the Southern accents they hear at school.

I can imagine young Tom, as well as hundreds or thousands of young Southerners before him, counting the children of slaves among his playmates. That would be especially so on isolated plantations. (Haven't I read about Jefferson as an adult having to travel for miles to a tavern to find conversation?) Interaction with slave children at an early age would have had a profound effect on speech patterns.

plnnr wrote:Thomas Jefferson was from the Piedmont region and, from all accounts, had a high, thin voice that was hard to hear. As for his accent, I imagine that he had even less of a distinct accent than did Washington. Surprisingly, Jefferson may have had more outside influences on his speech than did Washington. In the Neck at the time most everybody was of English descent. In the Valley there were great numbers of Scots, Irish, and Germans (they migrated down the Valley from Philadelphia headed West). Jefferson, who was better educated than Washington, also had the rough edges of his speech worn away.

I can't agree with your conclusions. Daniel Boone would have lived among the same Scottish, Irish and German immigrants, and yet he apparently pronounced "bear" as "bar". Furthermore, the fact that these immigrants were in the same territory doesn't necessarily imply daily interaction with them. I also think you are omitting the influence of slave dialect. In fact, owing to the geographic isolation of the large plantations, I'll wager Jefferson had more (and more constant) exposure to slave dialects than to Scottish burr. After all, despite the large influx of Scottish settlers into the South, does the Southern accent today sound even remotely like a Scottish accent?

I still think slave dialects were the single most important factor in the development of the Southern accent, and I'm still inclined to believe that Jefferson's accent, at least, would have been clearly recognizable to a modern listener as a Southern accent.

I think that Washington's isolation was less profound and that his accent might therefore have been milder, but I would imagine that even he had sufficient exposure to slave dialects (and slave playmates, I'll wager) that his accent would have been recognizably Southern as well.

[plnnr]

Interesting topic and discussion. I just finished reading Gore Vidal's "Lincoln" and there is a passage that talks about Lincoln's voice and speaking style (based upon a description made by Lincoln's former law partner). From the discussion he (like Jefferson) is described as being what Seinfeld called a "low talker) unit he got warmed up to his subject, then he spoke loud enough for you to hear him.

I recently heard a recording of Teddy Roosevelt and his speech was in total contrast to his physical appearance.

Did Washington, et al have a Southern accent? Sure, as compared to John Adams and the other Northerns/New Englanders. Was it the stereotypical Southern accent associated with NASCAR drivers and Miss America winners (more of whom have come from Ole'Miss than any other school)? Probably not.

[dtilque]

The Southern writers we are familiar with from the 18th century were all educated aristocrats who would never let their dialect be reflected in their writing. Not until the Civil War, in the letters written home by less formally educated Southerners, do you see the dialect in writing. Lee and other Aristocrats still kept it out of their writing.

The journals of the Lewis and Clark expedition have a lot of "spelling the way it sounds". Lewis was a Virginia plantation owner and was better educated than Clark, so his spelling is more standardized than Clark's but is less than that of Jefferson. William Clark's journal is noted as much for the imaginative spelling as anything else.

[Gyrate]

Another point to remember is that English accents themselves have migrated quite a lot in the last 200 years. According to Bill Bryson (who, apart from his travel writings, has written extensively on the English language), what we now consider a "backwoods" accent is probably the least adulterated version of the accents of the original settlers.

To take one example, "bear" probably was pronounced "bar" -- it was a common enough pronunciation at the time, and lives on in a few odd words like "heart" and in the British place names "Derby" ("darby"), Berkshire ("barkshur") and Hertford ("hartford").

jr8

"The quality of our thoughts is bordered on all sides by our facility with language."
-- J. Michael Straczynski

[Spoke]

A PBS documentary on Washington aired in Atlanta last night, which brought this thread to mind. I was pleased to note that at least one of the actors portraying Washington spoke with a soft southern accent.

The documentary also reminded me of a couple of points which argue in favor of a Southern accent.

Washington had no formal schooling past age 16. At 16 he went to work as a surveyor, a job which would have taken him among the backwoodsmen of the Southern frontier. So a good number of his formative years were spent among backwoods southerners.

Also, I came acros an article on ginseng in the latest issue of Smithsonian. Now, in the rural South, "ginseng" is often pronounced "ginsang". (In the same way that the verb "sing" is often pronounced in the backwoods as "sang.")

So it was interesting to me to find (in the Smithsonian article) this excerpt from Washinton's diary:
In passing over the Mountains, I met a number of Persons & Pack horses going in with Ginsang; & for salt & other articles at the Market below...

--Diary of George Washington, September 12, 1784.

(my emphasis)

(You can also find the excerpt here (http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/cmnshtml/essay1/essay1c.html).

Note the phonetic spelling of the Southern pronunciation of ginseng.

So does this mean Washington not only had a Southern accent, but a flat-out cracker accent? ;)

Any thoughts (or evidence) from newbies on this topic?

Also, is anyone aware of a good collection of Washington's correspondence. (For further research.) I've looked at Amazon but can't find one.

Lastly, I want to amend my earlier post to add Native Americans in general, and the Cherokee in particular, to the list of influences on the Southern accent. Indians remained in day-to-day contact with colonists on the Southern frontier long after they had been pushed out of the northeast, which makes me think that their pronunciations may have contributed to the unique accent of the South.

[Milton De La Warre]

Oh my, my. The Northern Neck doesn't have too many native speakers left, so far as I know, but if you go across to the other side of the river in Southern MD and find some long-time residents, you might still hear the way the language has been spoken for a long time. Cobb Island natives are a little less heavily accented than Tangerines. (I have heard it said that Tangerines speak "Shakespeare's" English, where "regular" tidewater English is that of the 18th Century.) Southern Charles, St. Mary's, and Calvert counties preserve the tidewater (or southern English, as Albion's Seed has it) speech manner well.

Suburbanization, longer commutes, cable TV, tourism, and changing demographics are making this speech a very endangered thing.

FWIW, my Oklahoman/Southern Californian ex wife took directions to Hallowing Point (in Calvert County) to mean "Halloween Pint".

[Spoke]

Seems odd to me that George Washington and Robert E. Lee were born within five miles of one another, yet Lee is presumed to have had a Southern accent while Washington (frequently) isn't.

[Acsenray]

I don't know whether G.W. was educated in England. Even if he were, though, I can't buy the premise that he must therefore have had a British accent.

A key component of English education was to inculcate the proper accent. Any member of the proper classes educated in the heyday of English education would have acquired the proper accent at a public school like Eton or Marlborough regardless of where they came from. There would have been heavy pressure from schoolmates to conform.

This happens to some extent today even. Pierce Brosnan got rid of his Irish accent when his family moved to England. John Mahoney and Ted Koppel got rid of their English accents when they came to America.

[Spoke]

Moot point. Washington wasn't educated in England, and wasn't educated at all after age 16.

[plnnr]

The contradiction between people's thoughts on Washington and Lee may have something to do with their general perceptions of the men in general. Washington is regarded as the father of "our" country so people have sort of a proprietary interest in him - he was certainly a Southerner and probably had a recognizaable accent when compared to Adams, Hancock, and the other Northern founding fathers. Lee, on the other hand, is recoginized primarily as a Southerner (even though he was educated at West Point and travelled extensively while on station). Lee is expected to have had an accent because of his association with the South. Washington isn't because he his primarily associated with the nation as a whole. Maybe.

[OGRastamon]

the colonists had been in residence in America for nearly 200 years at the time of the Revolution.

You're correct that the accent most likely evolved over the span of almost two centuries but make an incorrect assumption that it departed from the evolution of the British accent. You may have forgotten that Washington was born a British subject. If there was any development of the Southern accent at the time I find it likely that it started with far more common folk than cultured land-owners.

[Derleth]

You're correct that the accent most likely evolved over the span of almost two centuries but make an incorrect assumption that it departed from the evolution of the British accent.Given how far the American Colonies were from the British Isles, how could it not have diverged?

[Inigo Montoya]

If only we could dig up old Mr. Washington and have him weigh in. He'd brobably only say, "Baaiiinnss" in some nondescript gurgle, though.

[Inigo Montoya]

"Baaiiinnss"Missed the edit...evidently "R"s were silent 200+ years ago. Hope this helps.

[John Mace]

He spoke like a Southern Zombie.

On preview, this is actually a Double Zombie thread. How many of those have we had?