Married (Unavailable) men and cheating

[Fluffy]

Maybe there's no easy answer to this question, but what really makes a married or unavailable man cheat? Are there some guys out there who are happily married, content, etc. and found themselves cheating when they never thought in a million years that they would? There are those that say that all men cheat at least once regardless of how happily married they are. I wonder if this is true. Any thoughts on this?

[Meatros]

I don't think it's true. I'm not married, yet, I am engaged and I have never cheated. I don't plan on cheating either.

[RTFirefly]

I'm sure a fair number of married men cheat. But ALL of them? Hardly.

My wife and I are coming up on anniversary #11, and I haven't kissed another woman since I first kissed her.

[Simetra]

Why do "some" married/unavailable men cheat?

Well, I think you had the right answer with "there is no easy answer". The reasons are probably limitless. Some I guess would be, Different Enviroment, Boredom, Mid-Life crisis... etc.

BTW - Since it's IMHO, my humble opinion is, cheating on someone you've made a commitment to is just plain flat out wrong.

[Jonathan Chance]

Heck, I've turned down offers in the last year or so. Anyone who spends any time on the road gets them.

Some guys just can't resist (for myriad reasons, I'm sure), I'd guess.

[breaknrun]

There's also the "hey, you only live once" and "what she don't know..." attitudes. There's also the revenge angle for some real or imagined wrong committed by the wife. In some cultures, it's accepted behavior though I assume your question was directed at americans. I know one guy who cheated on his wife with another man. Apparently he was going through a crisis regarding his sexual orientation and they have since divorced.
Btw, I'm married (though currently going through a divorce) but I'd never cheat on my wife. I don't even believe flirting with another woman is appropriate but I seem to be in the minority there.

[Fluffy]

So for you guys who are saying "No way no how" to cheating, are you saying that there is no conceivable scenario or situation that would even tempt you to cheat? I realize that being tempted and acting upon it are two different things.
I just find it hard to believe that if A married man had an attracive woman and the opportunity right in front of him that he would not act upon it, especially if he thought he would not get caught! Anybody Agree?

[Kiki]

Some married men probably wouldn't be able to resist the temptation you just posted but I'd be willing to bet that a good majority of them would walk away from it. Even if they wouldn't get caught, what they had done would always be in the back of their mind and they would have to live with that secret for the rest of their lives. How many people can do that? I would think that the guilt would drive them crazy. Eventually they'll either 'fess up or continue cheating until they get caught.

[handy]

I think the want variety. They have a Playboy magazine for married men-same centerfold each
month of the year. It's like that, some like another centerfold.

[breaknrun]

Fluffy, If you're convinced any man will cheat given the right circumstances, then I'm not going to waste energy arguing with you. You are always going to have problems in your relationships if you don't learn to trust.
Getting away with it isn't the issue. Being with an attractive woman isn't the issue. I made a choice that that kind of behavior isn't acceptable for me and that's all there is to it. I happen to like monogamy. I'm sure a situation could be contrived that would tempt me but given that my wife is willing and able to have sex with me, that's the only person I'm going to sleep with.

[Duke]

I think another reason has to be that some women, although not many of them will admit to it, see a married man as a kind of "challenge."

I had a run-in with one of these women when I was married. My wife and I used to go to this cafe every week, and one week this waitress started really flirting with me, right in front of my wife. I knew how obvious it had to be because my wife, who usually didn't notice this kind of thing, almost had smoke coming out of her ears. I tried to defuse the situation by making a specific reference to "my wife," and eventually the waitress left. Next week, though, the same thing happened, with the waitress becoming even more persistent. It started happening every week--even when we sat outside of her section, the waitress would still make a beeline to our table. Our attempts to politely tell her to get lost--seeing how many times I could work the words "my wife" into a conversation, putting our arms around each other when she came by, literally waving our wedding rings in her face--only seemed to encourage her. Finally we ended up going to another cafe.

Now that I am divorced, I never get approached in cafes. Some of my more deviant female friends have suggested that I wear my old wedding band when I go out....

[Fluffy]

breakrun- I'm not necessarily convinced that any man will cheat on me. I was married for 14 years, have recently divorced. Infidelity was not the reason for my divorce and I can say that I really dont know if My ex cheated or not. Arguing with me or trying to convince me that not all men cheat is not the point of this thread. I trust plenty of people!! Having said that, I know that there are many, many women out there who do believe that "all men are dogs-all men cheat." This thread is merely to get feedback from men on this topic to see how realistic this attitude is!

[Smitty]

Having discussed this with many people of both sexes, IMHO:

1) Most men will cheat given the opportunity. It is sort of the old, "You most want what you can't have" syndrome.
More specifically, it is harder (generally speaking) for a man to have sex with a new woman than for a woman to have sex with a new man. Almost every woman is at most 5 minutes away from getting laid whenever she wants. A man (unless he is rich, famous, or both) has to make an effort to get laid. A woman just has to accept one of the dozen offers a day she gets, or at most go down to the corner store and pick up a guy.
Now, when does your nose itch the most? When your hands are full and you can't scratch. When are you just dying for a drink? When the water isn't working. Same thing. Men know that they can't get it just whenever they want, so they are more likely to take the opportunity when it presents itself. Women can pass up 100 offers because they know that they'll have 100 more tomorrow. As Chris Rock said, "No man in the world can outrun p***y when it's chasing him."

2) When men actively search for women to cheat with, it is usually for one or both of the following; a) To get something that they are missing at home (which covers the "variety" thing), or b) To stroke their ego ("I still got it")

[ShibbOleth]

A long time ago three (male) friends of mine were married in three consecutive months. Within a year all three were divorced. There was infidelity in all three marriages. In two out of the three it was the women cheating on the man. In both cases they'd put the moves on me (and others). I really didn't know what to do with this information (tell my friends?). As it turned out it was unnecessary, they found out or were told anyway by their wives. In the other marriage the guy was cheating on his wife, he'd been cheating on her when she was just his girlfriend. I think she knew or suspected this all along. But I don't think that was the main reason for their divorce.

So, at least in my experience, this is not a one way street.

[Jane D'oh!]

A friend of mine in Cleveland told me once, "I could have the most beautiful woman in the world in front of me, on her knees and I wouldn't do it. My kids mean too much to me. I wouldn't even think of risking them finding that out."

I don't think he's unhappy in his marriage, it's just that his priority has shifted. I dunno tho, the response itself sounds kinda odd. (Not 'I don't want to hurt my wife' or something along those lines) Can any other parents relate to it?

[Manda JO]

Fluffy, when you say things like:

I just find it hard to believe that if A married man had an attracive woman and the opportunity right in front of him that he would not act upon it, especially if he thought he would not get caught! ,

it makes it hardto believe you when you say:

I'm not necessarily convinced that any man will cheat on me.

It looks to me like you are invested in proving that vitually all men cheat, or only don't because they have no chance to. I don't know if that's true--all we have are your words--but you might think about why you seem to at least have tendencies in this direction. In my experience, women want to prove that "all men cheat" for one of two reasons: either someone cheated on them and they feel like it is "their fault" and that the only way they can escape the blame is by proving that all men do it (there is some middle ground here that these women are ignoring) or they cheat/are thinking of cheating and need to justify it: "I'm sure he's cheated on me before. All men do."

A man (unless he is rich, famous, or both) has to make an effort to get laid. A woman just has to accept one of the dozen offers a day she gets, or at most go down to the corner store and pick up a guy.

Whenever a guy says this, I am convinced that the mental image he has in his mind is of Cameron Diaz waltzing down the street, men falling all over her. Sit down and list all the woman in the office. Use the phone list so you don't skip any of them. How many of them have you solicited for sex? How many of them would you have sex with? Make sure you include the fat ones, the ones over 45, the ones with annoying voices, the ones that just get on your nerves, the ones that have funky diseases, the cleaning lady, etc. When men think back over the "women they know", they tend to exlude all the women they wouldn't have sex with automatically, and then think they'd have sex with every woman they thought of. Let me assure you that the bottom 50% of women in America, charisma wise (and looks and general approachableness of personality all figure into this) do not get solicited for sex "dozens" of times a day, a week, or a lifetime.

[jsleek]

I've been to a few business conferences. My observation is that only a few guys mess around. Most will go to the gym, watch TV, get drunk, but no women. (Look, but no touch.) A normal husband loves his wife and won't do things to hurt her. A normal guy gets tempted, of course, but fear of cooties will dampen what slips by the consience.

I've seen lots of statistics on the other side, but I remain skeptical of them because of what I see.

[sunacres]

Manda JO, that was a very refreshing post! Your candor is most welcome, albeit offensive. ...the ones over 45...!

I've been married for 17 years and haven't had intercourse with another women in all that time. But have I cheated? In some respects, perhaps. I've fallen in love and chosen to walk away from it. But did I cheat or did I choose?

Are all men cheaters at heart? In some sense, yes. My wife and I recently conducted an informal poll of the married men we knew, asking whether they would have sex outside of their marriages, and if not why not. The responses I got were generally "because my wife would kick my ass." The responses my wife got were closer to "I wouldn't hurt my wife." In my view we were getting the same response, just phrased differently on account of the audience.

What was interesting to me was that not one single man responded with anything remotely like "I value monogamy as an enriching mode of life."

Monogamy in our culture has become a rather feeble method of avoiding our insecurities.

[Legomancer]

Well I haven't cheated on my wife, but I did cheat on a girlfriend. Several times. I'm not proud of it, but I did it. And I can make up all sorts of "reasons" to rationalize why I did it, but at the end of the day I know in my heart of hearts that I did it just because I could. There was an opportunity, and I took it.

I have never cheated on my wife. I'd like to think I wouldn't, but the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, and I've done it in the past, when given the opportunity. I'd like to think that the circumstances are different now and that I wouldn't do it. But that's pretty easy to say when the opportunity isn't there.

I wouldn't go so far as to say all men will cheat. All I know is that in the past, I have.

[CRorex]

I don't think its fair to make it seem that men are the only one's who cheat. A good number of my female friends (and several exs) have had the attitude of "Out of sight out of mind".

I think the issue of if someone will cheat has a lot to do with how the individual views sex. Now I'm all for sex and trying out anything my parnet is up for grabs, so its not prudishness. For me its about the emotional part of sex..

Then again I very obviously don't share the same view point as a lot of people. For one I don't give a damn about my ego any more. Who cares if "I still got it", I don't and I'm the closest person who gives a damn. If its an issue of you wanting something you're not getting at home... you had a good idea what the sex was like when you got married and if you weren't happy with it at the time then DON'T MARRY THAT PERSON! If sex is such a big deal in the relationship that you'd betray your partner over it then you shouldn't be in a serious relationship.

And Fluffy, in response to one of your questions: There is no cirumstances where I'd cheat on my gf/wife. When I'm dating someone every female I meet falls into the only friend catagory. Sure I may see someone out jogging who's absolutly perfect to look at, but damnit she's just some random person on the street and not the gal I care about.

[Watermelon Man]

I can venture to say if a man vcheats his SO its not only because he is a no good bastard, it might be because he is not actually too much in love with her, and the relationship is not serious enough...

I can safely claim this was the case when I cheated my g/f at the time:)

In fact I cheated her twice in a week, then decided to leave her for the second woman I cheated her with. That woman is now my wife, we have ben together for 5 years now, and I never even thinkof cheating her...

[sub]Or maybe in my wildest fantasies I do... but never with the intention of actually doing the deed!!

[LolaBaby]

I think most of the time it is to seek out something that is missing in the relationship.

This goes for both men and women. I think there's a myth that "all men are dogs" but there's a fair share of women who indulge in infidelities also.

[Duke]

Manda JO, in her excellent post (just about every day Manda JO posts excellent stuff), wrote:
Whenever a guy says <women get solicited every day>, I am convinced that the mental image he has in his mind is of Cameron Diaz waltzing down the street, men falling all over her.
I think you will appreciate this story a friend of mine told me here in LA. Her partner lives across the street from an attractive woman from Holland. After the woman across the street broke up with her BF, it was almost a year before she found someone else. She claimed that no one would ask her out, and that she only had one or two dates during that time, and not because she was turning men down left and right, either.

The woman was a former Miss Universe.

[Cervaise]

(Fluffy) I just find it hard to believe that if a married man had an attracive woman and the opportunity right in front of him that he would not act upon it, especially if he thought he would not get caught!Even if Cathy Rogers herself were naked and spreadeagled on the hood of one of her junkyard cars and begging me for it, I'd walk away. When I got married, I made a choice. I found the woman I want to spend the rest of my life with, the woman who matches me and/or complements me (that's complements with an 'e,' as in filling in missing spaces, not praising with an 'i') better than any other I've known, the one who makes me a better person.

I wouldn't not cheat for the reasons offered by sunacres, i.e. not hurting my wife. No, it's entirely selfish: it's about not shooting my own long-term happiness in the head. No sexual encounter with a woman who isn't my wife (even if it's several hours of the best sex imaginable, and I have quite an imagination, believe me) is worth the inevitable lifetime of regret. Sadly, it's true that some men don't live this way, and can't think beyond the next hour or two -- but ain't no way no how that's true for all of us.

[Toaster52]

Same here: I have never cheated on a GF or my wife. It was my wife who cheated on me. My fiance is, to be frank, a little bit overweight (I wish she would lose about 20 pounds, but then, I'M not a model, either), but I would never think of cheating on her.
Clarification: if (say) Sandra Bullock were to come on to me (I wish) and literally grind her groin against mine, I suppose the thought would cross my mind. I mean, come on.......But to act on that thought? Naaahhh.............my sweetie means far too much for me in so many ways.

[Buliwyf]

what does it say about our society today that someone would even post this question. I am a happily married man, with my first child on the way and I can honestly tell you that I wouldn't even consider cheating on my wife. I don't care how hot or beautiful, or sexy, or whatever the other woman is. Noone is worth my relationship and the trust of my wife. My own personal belief on this issue is that if you are even for one second able to think about cheating on the person you are married to then you should never have gotten married in the first place because you obviously are not mature enough to handle the responsibility inherent in a marriage. Everyone fantasizes, those who act on those fantasies do not deserve the love and trust of the one they are married to.

Buliwyf

[handy]

Sure men cheat, but women cheat too. Sometimes men cheat with men & sometimes women cheat
with women.

Often people have this kinda unwritten rule that its assumed that they didn't have sex with anyone
else UNLESS the partner asks them if they did. So, they would have to ask daily if they had sex with anyone else
, which is, well, not much fun. Sometimes they can make a rule they must tell each other if
they have sex with anyone else.

If people are ask if they cheat, you get a pretty low number of them saying 'yes,' but if you ask
them if they know anyone who has cheated, you get a pretty high number of 'yes'. (wink)

[Duke]

Originally posted by handy
If people are ask if they cheat, you get a pretty low number of them saying 'yes,' but if you ask
them if they know anyone who has cheated, you get a pretty high number of 'yes'. (wink)
Umm, yeah, but that's because there's only one of 'you,' but a bunch of 'people you know.'

[BooBoo316]

In ten years, I have never cheated on my wife. I have had some very tempting offers, but I love my wife too much to do that to her. I don't think I would be able to look at myself in the mirror anymore if I cheated on her.

[UncleBill]

Originally posted by Fluffy
There are those that say that all men cheat at least once regardless of how happily married they are. I wonder if this is true. Any thoughts on this? Yes, those people are idiots. And if you believed, them, you would be considered one, too.

[kittenblue]

Originally posted by Smitty
Almost every woman is at most 5 minutes away from getting laid whenever she wants. A man (unless he is rich, famous, or both) has to make an effort to get laid. A woman just has to accept one of the dozen offers a day she gets, or at most go down to the corner store and pick up a guy.


Gee, what fantasy world are you living in? Not being of the young, svelte and single variety anymore, I'm not getting even one offer a year.....but when I was (young, svelte and single) I still wasn't getting more than one offer a month...usually from drunk college boys whose performance was less than inspiring.

However, I am so pleased to hear so many guys making a case for faithfulness. Wish my ex had been one of them. These are his reasons for cheating on me: "I was an immature, insecure guy who thought I needed the attention of other women to prove to myself that I was attractive and worthy. If I couldn't succeed on the job because I wasn't tall, confident and a West-Pointer, then I could show the other guys up by getting the women."

What he failed to notice was he had lost the respect of the other members of his unit (we were an Army family) because of his infidelity. The only guys who even remotely "admired" him were the drunk, single guys. And his behavior ultimately led to his losing his job, and he was shocked...absolutely shocked...when his best friend, best man at our wedding, refused to give him a good reference for a job. Said he couldn't, in good faith, give a character reference to someone who would cheat on his wife and kids like that. Now THAT's a good man...shoulda married him when he asked....

Oddly enough, the ex has been faithful to the woman he left his family for...but she divorced him because she thought he had cheated on her. I love irony. Oh, and he calls me once a week to apologize for hurting me...we've been divorced for six years now.

[Fluffy]

Great responses!

Smitty- you pretty much summed up what I was thinking but couldnt express it as well as you did.

Buliwyf- If you are wondering what this post says about society, just look at some of the responses in the thread!

Manda Jo- You may be right in some of your observations. Like I said, recently divorced, Thirty-ish and maybe I am looking for confirmation out there that there are still decent men out there!

Sunacres- It is interesting that when some men claim they would never
cheat because "I love my kids" (not a bad reason, by the way) or "the wife would kick my ass" ect. Not my wife (relationship, whatever) means too much to risk.

Again thanks for the great responses! Every single one of you have given me something to think about!

[Smitty]

I'm living in the "fantasy world" of what I've been told by nearly every woman I've talked to about this. If it doesn't hold true for you, well too bad. Sounds like a little bitterness there....

[Gala Matrix Fire]

kittenblue, your post made my day!

btw, I'm a 36-yr-old female, and although I never get offers for fulfilling sexual encounters, I'm also positive that I could have some kind of consensual sexual encounter with a man within the hour, no matter where I might be.

[Bricker]

Originally posted by Fluffy
So for you guys who are saying "No way no how" to cheating, are you saying that there is no conceivable scenario or situation that would even tempt you to cheat? I realize that being tempted and acting upon it are two different things.
I just find it hard to believe that if A married man had an attracive woman and the opportunity right in front of him that he would not act upon it, especially if he thought he would not get caught! Anybody Agree?

Well, obviously predicting the future is a tough call.

For instance, I might say, "I would never commit suicide," or "I would never kill another human, except in defense of an innocent's life," and who knows what bizarre circumstances might ensue that would make those predictions wrong?

But as best as I can imagine right now, in even the most horrendous of circumstances, I wouldn't do those things.

Similarly, I cannot imagine a realistic circumstance that would have me cheating on my wife. In bizarro-world, where I'm told I have to bang a super-model or the evil villain will destory the world... well, I think it's sfae to describe such scenarios as unrealistic.

But if a gorgeous chick made it clear that she was just lookjing for sex, no strings attached, one time only, and my wife would never ever find out... nope. No chance. Why would I risk the love of my life, and my family, for one night of anything? And it is a risk, notwithstanding any guarantees that might exist, because I would know. And I would tell, because that's the agreement I made, and if I can't trust me to keep my own agreements, I'm not of too much value as a human being, am I?

- Rick

[Typo Negative]

I'm a man. I was cheated on by my then live-in GF. It's a pain I wouldn't wish on anyone.

Me? I'm a one at a time man.

[BlackKnight]

I'm too clingy to ever cheat on someone.

Let that be a warning to any future gf's or wives of mine. ;)

[seawitch]

Originally posted by Smitty
I'm living in the "fantasy world" of what I've been told by nearly every woman I've talked to about this. If it doesn't hold true for you, well too bad. Sounds like a little bitterness there....

So any experience that differs from your personal survey is caused by bitterness? Sounds like a little bitterness on your part, too, if you believe that all women can get sex any time they want and no man can do so.

[JRDelirious]

ALL men? Well, that may be so in the Jimmy Carter sense, i.e. having "lusted in our hearts." But really, we seem to be underestimated in this sense. Very many of us are perfectly capable of monogamy.

As to the old "she can get it any time she wants, he has to get it any time he can" canard, well, that has been dealt with above -- SOME women could get it any time they wanted, IF they wanted. But not all. And not all men feel they HAVE GOT TO get it every chance they have. (I know I don't go around propositioning random women, or jumping at every chance).

[Ms. Lois]

Originally posted by spooje
I'm a man. I was cheated on by my then live-in GF. It's a pain I wouldn't wish on anyone.

Me? I'm a one at a time man.


spooje sums up my position on the possibility of me cheating - it hurt so much I couldn't do that to someone I cared about. It just isn't going to happen.

My ex-husband was unfaithful, and accused me of cheating as an excuse for his behavior. I have not ever in my entire life cheated. I'm not sure which hurt more - his cheating, or his accusation.:wally

FWIW, I call myself a serial monogamist . One relationship at a time, though I have lusted in my heart.

I have found through fulfilling other fantasies, that the actual experience rarely lives up to the original fantasy, so that's another incentive not to cheat.

[handy]

"I could have some kind of consensual sexual encounter with a man within the hour"

Did you see a Candid Camera show where a pretty lady on the street asked guys to kiss her? Almost
half said no & those that did, kissed her on the cheek. That was in Monterey, California. I know cause
that's where CC is.

[EasyPhil]

A better question would be:

If you found someone that you were emotionally and physically attracted to, would there be a possibility of you "cheating" in such a situation? I put "cheating" in quotes because one could actually be "in love" with a person in a situation like this and not have sex with them.

[Rocza]

Originally posted by Fluffy
Sunacres- It is interesting that when some men claim they would never
cheat because "I love my kids" (not a bad reason, by the way) or "the wife would kick my ass" ect. Not my wife (relationship, whatever) means too much to risk.


Fluffy-I think you might be reading too much into the men's stated reasons.

I think a lot of men have trouble saying "I love my wife too much to want to cheat" to male co-workers, friends or even family. That doesn't mean they don't feel it-it just means that they have trouble saying it. As sunacres pointed out the same guys would reply with different reasons for not cheating to a man and a woman and he wisely said that it was the same answer-just different audiences.

I know that my husband always uses "She'll kick my ass" as code for something he doesn't want to do but, for whatever reason, doesn't wish to explain himself. And that is the feel I get from most of the guys I've met.

[Bad News Baboon]

Dear Fluffy,

Maybe there's no easy answer to this question, but what really makes a married or unavailable woman cheat? Are there some gals out there who are happily married, content, etc. and found themselves cheating when they never thought in a million years that they would? There are those that say that all women cheat at least once regardless of how happily married they are. I wonder if this is true. Any thoughts on this?
would YOU cheat?
If you are saying "No way no how" to cheating, are you saying that there is no conceivable scenario or situation that would even tempt you to cheat? I realize that being tempted and acting upon it are two different things.
I just find it hard to believe that if A married woman had an attracive man and the opportunity right in front of her that she would not act upon it, especially if she thought she would not get caught! Anybody Agree?

this thread is so assinine on so many levels, I can hardly stand it.
It seems like you are looking for validation for something you already hold true in your heart.

maybe I am looking for confirmation out there that there are still decent men out there!

This is such an insult to all men that I am offended for them. I am offended for my brothers, my guy friends, my husband, my nephew, etc.

How dare you paint men with such a broad brush?

Look around you here on this board.
There are some really swell guys here. And if they are here, they are out there in real life, too.

If a guy posted up the a similar post about women and gold digging, it would not be tolerated. Same here.

I am terribly sorry that life has handed you some unhappy moments.
But, Fluffy, if this is the kind of men you are meeting, boy are YOU looking in the wrong places. Can't expect to find a diamond looking through garbage you know.

[CheapBastid]

I am a bit of a oddball when it comes to relationships with women.

I will start by saying that I've never been good at picking up on women's advances, add to that my general dissociation with women since I got involved with the woman who became my wife puts me in the perfect position to avoid 'cheating' situations. I choose not to have women friends and I don't really talk to women unless there is a specific need to (work related, etc.)

I suppose there is the fantasy situation where Leticia Casta notices me from across the room and is overwhelmed with the urge to take me home and ravish me, but even were I to be put into that position she'd have a difficult time engaging with me and there's no way I would take action on it. This is not to say that it wouldn't brighten my day and add some fantastic fuel to future solo masturbation sessions.

:D

I've been in a situation where I felt cheated on (in college - a long ugly story) and I would never subject anyone I care about to those feelings I went through. Also I know that I would obsess about the infidelity and it would negatively affect me from that day forward.

So, yes I do lust in my heart, but I've never cheated and don't see it ever happening.

[tapioca tundra]

I just find it hard to believe that if A married woman had an attracive man and the opportunity right in front of her that she would not act upon it, especially if she thought she would not get caught!

Sounds like someone's trying to justify something. I've met women who are married and won't even put themselves in the position to be tempted by anyone. So I don't think they'd agree. They get a ton of respect from me.

[Bad News Baboon]

if you are quoting me, Anticay , and are taking me seriously, I think you should reread the whole post.

you see: I exchanged the word woman for man, to show how absurd the OP is.

So if your implication is that I am trying to justify something, then I have no idea where you are coming from with this or why.

altogether too weird.

[Medea's Child]

I hate to say it, but in my current relationship I can see me cheating far easier than I can see my guy cheating.

He has that whole Marine, conservative, left his ex-wife because she was unfaithful thing going for him. Fidelity is a pretty serious deal for him and we both know it.

Good guys are out there, I found one and if my lazy, oblivious self can run into the wonder that is Medea's Guy anyone with the right attitude can. In your shoes I'd watch how you think about men. If you are lumping them all together and kicking the lump, why would any of the shining individuals found in that lump want to give you the time of day? Be a person worthy of a great guy, and know you are. They'll find you and thank thier lucky stars.

[tapioca tundra]

Hard to stomach advice coming from someone who when given the statement; "So according to what you say, a person is no better than the art they produce", follows it up with "and vice versa". I don't know, it registers on my superficiometer. So in that respect, I wouldn't criticize the OP.

altogether too questionable.

[Bad News Baboon]

Anticay

one of the general rules of the board is to leave personal problems at home.

You are simply pissed off at me because I found your friendship obsessive and red flag raising.

if you have a problem with me, take it to the pit. or better yet, just deal with it.

for the record, I am not interested in your friendship and if you wouldn't mind, leave your agendas about me out of the straight dope.

thanks.

[sunacres]

I just want to stand up and salute Rocza for totally grokking men in one swell foop. Beautiful.

[Fluffy]

Thank you Anticay! Well said!

Bad News Baboon- Sorry you think this thread is so assinine. Obviously not so assinine that you could resist putting in your two cents!
You have an awfully strong reaction to this! Why so defensive?

[Bad News Baboon]

a)in case you haven't noticed, this board is about irradicating ignorance. your post is chock full of ignorance. hence....I posted.

and

b) to suggest that ALL men will cheat is, at some point or another, basically put: stupid.

saying such, if you bothered to read my post: it offends all the men in my life. and all the men here. and, um, all the men, period.
and that's just WRONG.

please reread my posts and answer the first one. I reworded YOUR posts substituting the word woman for the word man. would YOU cheat? no? then why would any man cheat..soley because he's a man?

DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE?
Why is ok to man bash and not ok to Woman Bash?
its not.
Because you can't flatly say stuff like that out ANY set of people.

[Fluffy]

I think you're being a bit oversensitive BNBaboon. Sorry you're so offended. I apologize to all the men in your life that I have offended as well! If you actually read all of my post on this thread, you would see that I am starting to rethink my position on this issue. Did'nt mean to paint all men with the same brush. Yes, women cheat as well.
I know this. However, I'm a female so I'm posing the question regarding men and cheating. In no way did I mean for this to turn into a man bashing thread. Not my intent at all!
And by the way, I dont think my post was full of ignorance. Just because you take issue with my statements or happen to disagree certainly does not make me ignorant!

[DeadlyAccurate]

Let's all take 10 deep breaths and calm down before the mods come in here and take the belt to all of us.

As for the OP, I don't believe most men cheat, but I have been cheated on in the past by boyfriends. If I were to believe that most men cheat, that would mean my dad, my brother, my husband, and every boyfriend I've had before (well, I can believe the boyfriends did).

[Czarcasm]

The Mod is here, and he says knock off the personal attacks, both overt AND covert, and stick to the OP, or I will lock this off without a second thought.

[ultress]

How refreshing and stimulating to read about how faithful you guys are! It renews my faith in the human species. Now go on the internet, check out the personal ads and then come back in and give your opinion. I'm a single woman, and yes, I've been constantly approached by married men. No, I'm not Christy Brinkley by far. But it's a fact that men and women do cheat, will cheat, and have cheated. This is not a blanket statement that all will cheat. But there are lots and lots that do. The main reason given to me...I don't get intimacy or attention at home. And knowing for a fact that I will get bombed for this statement, when you don't take care of your mate they will look somewhere else after a length of time and there will be someone out there that will give them what they don't get at home.
I do beleive that there are still good men and women left out there that are faithful. But face facts, there are plenty that aren't. The whole reason for this thread is for a matter of opinon from men on why men cheat, coming from a female. Not if you cheat or have you cheated. If you haven't then you probably have male friends that have and they have told you why. It's not meant as an accusation.
IMHO

[PunditLisa]

I married my husband because he was one of the kindest, thoughtful, most caring people in the world. He's proven it to me in thoughts and in deeds time after time. He'd sooner break his own arm than break my heart.

I may be Kathie Lee but until and unless someone gives me videotaped evidence to the contrary I'll go on believing he's as trustworthy and faithful as I am to him.

Temptation is impossible to avoid. Finding yourself in a room alone with someone whom you are attracted to is very easy to avoid.

[shrew]

Originally posted by Manda JO
Whenever a guy says this, I am convinced that the mental image he has in his mind is of Cameron Diaz waltzing down the street, men falling all over her. Sit down and list all the woman in the office. Use the phone list so you don't skip any of them. How many of them have you solicited for sex? How many of them would you have sex with? Make sure you include the fat ones, the ones over 45, the ones with annoying voices, the ones that just get on your nerves, the ones that have funky diseases, the cleaning lady, etc. When men think back over the "women they know", they tend to exlude all the women they wouldn't have sex with automatically, and then think they'd have sex with every woman they thought of. Let me assure you that the bottom 50% of women in America, charisma wise (and looks and general approachableness of personality all figure into this) do not get solicited for sex "dozens" of times a day, a week, or a lifetime.

Just wanted to say how brilliant this is.

It reminds me of the scene in A Beautiful Mind when John Nash has his breakthrough "original idea". He points out the girls that will be ignored if he and all his buddies go for the one hot girl.

The one hot girl will receive far more sexual advances in her lifetime, but she is not the norm.

Cheating? Eh. Some men are faithful, some aren't. Getting married these days is like playing russian roulette as far as I'm concerned.

[burundi]

I do think it's unfair to assume that most men would cheat if given the chance. I know too many decent, kind, honorable men to believe that. Sure, a person might be tempted, but that does not mean they'll act on that temptation. I have male friends that I find attractive. Would I cheat on my SO with them? No way, no how. I love him too much and respect myself too much.

It's easy to get discouraged, especially when you read singles ads or hang out in bars. But keep in mind that most of the good men don't place singles ads or try to pick up women in bars.

[trishdish]

I guess the thing that is pissing me off about Fluffy's post is that she singled out married MEN. Honestly, the question would probably be better stated as why to married PEOPLE cheat. Otherwise, I keep picturing some long-suffering Kathy Bates-esque sort of woman clad in an apron and high heels like June Cleaver and sitting at home with the kids while her husband is chasing his Cameron Diaz-esque secretary around his office.

What century are we living in?!?

"I just find it hard to believe that if A married man had an attractive woman and the opportunity right in front of him that he would not act upon it, especially if he thought he would not get caught! Anybody Agree?"

I most definitely do not agree, because like Bad New Baboon, I can just as easily put married "woman" into that sentence. To think that a married man is somehow different than a married woman in how he would react to your hypothetical situation, in my opinion, assumes and makes the leap of faith that men basically just think with their dicks.

I can only give you my own personal situation which is that my husband and I had conversations about infidelity before we got married. Both of us were of the opinion that there would be no situation that either of us could imagine where if the other one were to cheat, would forgive the other person. We both took a scorched earth view to infidelity which would be that we would immediately leave the other person for doing so - regardless if there even might be children involved (to take away that "staying together for the sake of the children" excuse). Basically, we both know how we feel about infidelity and we know that we could never trust the other person again no matter how hard we would try so at that point, there would really be no reason to stay married.

Given that and knowing how we both feel, I can't imagine a scenario where either of us would cheat. Even if either of us were given the "ideal" situation, we both are intelligent to know what it would be. It's just a fuck. It's just a lay. And ultimately, it's hollow and empty and would never solve any of the problems that led us to stray in the first place. It all boils down to trust. I trust my husband not to do to me that thing that he knows would end our relationship and vice versa. It's a pact, it's a vow. Not too much unlike that thing we did two and a half years ago in front of over 100 of our friends and family with me in the white poufy dress and him in the tux.

And before you think I'm all Pollyanna and wearing rose colored glass, I was in a relationship where I caught the guy - in bed - with another woman. Instead of ending it, I "forgave" him but my version of forgiveness was to go out and screw about 4 other guys during what was left of our "relationship". So, I've been both the given and the receiver on this one and I know it's shitty and lame and basically a real passive aggressive way to lead your life and that ain't my bag.

BTW, if you go through life thinking all guys are just a bunch of assholes who are looking to score, regardless of the band on their finger, and only think with their dicks, I promise you, those are EXACTLY the guys you'll find. Self-fulfilling prophecies always come true.

[sunacres]

trish, well said. I have pretty much the same agreement with my wife but I don't understand it. Why if "it's just a fuck" does your marriage hinge on not doing it (either of you)? There must be other agreements you've made that a breach wouldn't cost you your marriage. Why sex?

[trishdish]

I guess because it's so intimate, so personal, so what should be a very private, loving act between two people. And I guess also because there is so much other stuff wrapped up in the symbolism of the act itself. Going outside the "marital boudoir"...for what? For acceptance? To feel "loved" again?

I think a lot of it has to do with what the reasoning would be behind the infidelity probably more than the actual act itself. But the act itself would be so intimate; it would be hard to actually separate the two.

I don't know if that makes any sense whatsoever. But, for me, it would be the ultimate betrayal of trust. Sure, tell me that my ass DOESN'T look fat in these pants and tell me that you think I'm funny when I'm premenstrual and throwing things at your head but please don't screw the neighbor's wife. :-)

[Purd Werfect]

I'd never cheat, and I've had opportunities in the past. If the person with whom I'd consider cheating is that desirable for me, I would (and have done so in the past) break up with my SO rather than cheating. It's not so much a question of ethics, as ethics are often a slippery slope for me, but rather I can imagine all to well the pain that it would cause me if the situation was reversed, and it would haunt me to visit that pain upon another.

And yes, I know a breakup is very painful, but not as painful as cheating would be. And this I also know from experience.

[JustPlainBryan]

Originally posted by sunacres
trish, well said. I have pretty much the same agreement with my wife but I don't understand it. Why if "it's just a fuck" does your marriage hinge on not doing it (either of you)? There must be other agreements you've made that a breach wouldn't cost you your marriage. Why sex?


Well, for starters, the cheating spouse introduces the risk of spreading potential deadly STDs to the non-cheating partner, and is therefore breaking biological trust (ie can I trust you enough to not give me an STD?)

Then there is the emotional aspect of sex. Yes, there are still some of us in this world who do not treat sex as a sport. I can only speak for myself when I say that I treat sex as a very special thing, to be shared between two people who trust each other implicitly, regardless of whether the couple is married (this reason can of course be discounted if you don't treat sex as anything special).

Then of course there is the verbal and written vow of marriage that says that you promise to be faithful to each other, even sexually.

Then of course there is the legal mumbo jumbo of the marriage contract that states infidelity as grounds for divorce.

I would say sexual cheating is a very big thing and grounds for ending a relationship.

all of this is invalidated of course if the couple agrees to an"open relationship"

[Tarkus]

I'll admit, I didn't read EVERY post on this thread but, I have to chime in on this one.

I feel that I can speak from both sides of the fence. I've been through a few serious relationships, and even a marriage (currently going through divorce) and I have to say that, yes, the thought was always there that, if in the right circumstances, at the right time, I would partake in some extracurricular activities.

Now, however, I'm connected (and I do mean connected) with a women who I hope to marry someday where I just couldn't imagine going down that road.

Not that I don't find other women attractive, but, the fact is, I can say for the first time in my life that I am honestly in love. I couldn't show that disrespect to HER.

So, I'll summarize by saying, in MY opinion, if you cheat, you're really unhappy with you are with and are afraid to give them up for whatever reason.

Just MY 2 cents.

[Razor]

Well, Bad New Baboon, you may classify this as bringing a personal problem on to the board but I'm sorry but I'm that woman who gets all the offers from married men. I'm single and in my thirties, cover every inch of my flesh and I'm still fighting them off. Soemtimes one or two a year. And no, I have never made any kind of offer to a married or otherwise hooked-up guy and no, I have never accepted any kind of affair either. But yes, it keeps happening. And men's motives are as varied as their lives. Sometimes they just want to get at or isolate their wives - that's when it's the childminder's husband or a friend's husband that tries it on. Sometimes they are just downright promiscuous - sickos. Sometimes, sorry guys, a married man genuinely 'falls in love' with someone else. Yes, maybe this last one does indicate a problem in his marriage. But it is not necessarily his fault if after ten years and three children his wife appears to have no more interest in him (sexual or otherwise). Men don't get dead from the neck-down after three babies or the age of forty.

The last one I had to see off (and I needed assistance) was in his fifties and just ego-tripping. He likes and needs admiration and wanted that and more from me and wasn't going to get it. Fortunately my sources had informed me that he had been up to stuff before elsewhere so I spotted him coming otherwise I might not have suspected such a venerable gent and thought he was just being friendly (but obviously fifty-year-olds are not dead from the neck down either).

But personally, I find this stuff very depressing and actually it makes me cry to be the object of this kind of attention - it's so humiliating. Why do they think I would be happy or grateful for such a disrespectful 'relationship' if it were to ensue. I hate them, really. Chancers, all.

And no, I'm not gorgeous, just kind of normal-looking and a bit plumper than the media would have us believe is attractive.

[Bad News Baboon]

Razor ,

It's one thing to discuss a personal problem as it relates to the topic at hand, it is another to bring up topics brought up else where simply because you are mad at one of the posters.

(examples, in a thread about chocolate bunnies, let's say:

jack: Does anyone here love chocolate bunnies?

correct:
jane: you know, eatting chocolate bunnies makes me break out.

incorrect:
jane: well, hearing that from a guy who needs to take viagra and whose wife left him, I don't think ANYTHING you have to say about chocolate bunnies is valid)

The mods have asked to not use these boards as a venue to attack others due to personal reasons.

I am sorry if I was misunderstood in what I said.

And yes, I agree, there are men out there who will flirt and cheat, etc. There are women who will do the same.

My point was that to make a blanket statement about ALL men is just wrong.

[Fluffy]

When I started this thread, I think I was just trying to get a sense of what men and women thought about the subject of married or otherwise unavailable men cheating. Is it the general consensus that a man will if theres no chance of getting caught, etc. I'll admit, in my experience most (not all) married men that I or my friends know, have gone outside the marriage for sex. IF it sounded like a blanket statement about all men I apologize to the guys out there. This thread just proves some have and will cheat others haven't and would never cheat. It's interesting hearing the guys perspective.

[tapioca tundra]

I'd say no poster here has the moral, ideological or intellectual authority to judge someone's posts as "assinine".

Most all questions are derived from ignorance. And a question is the first step to not being ignorant, no matter what the topic or how ignorant. Don't be too sorry Fluffy, unless this board doesn't allow questions. Only very few people, such as myself, know everything there is to know about everything.

Also (to everyone), I initially misunderstood Bad News Baboon's original post.

[Bad News Baboon]

as·i·nine:
1.Utterly stupid or silly: asinine behavior.
2.Of, relating to, or resembling an ass

If the OP had used the word people instead of men, I would not have called it asinine.

If the OP had used the phrase: some or most men, I would not have called it asinine.

If the OP gave the indication of being very young, I would not use the word asinine.

I would think that by being in their 30's, one has learned enough to not make broad brush statement about any group of questions.

if the OP asked:

"Why do all black people..."
"why do all fat people...."

if the OP had asked, as I mentioned earlier "women and gold digging"

etc..

well, all of those are offensive.

Now then, Fluffy has explained her point about not meaning to use such a broad brush and I have explained my reaction.

perhaps you didn't read this:

Originally posted by Czarcasm
The Mod is here, and he says knock off the personal attacks, both overt AND covert, and stick to the OP, or I will lock this off without a second thought.


you may try and disguise it with humor by saying only 'you know everything', but I am asking you again, for the second time publicaly, to please knock it off.

[Bad News Baboon]

Originally posted by Bad News Baboon
I would think that by being in their 30's, one has learned enough to not make broad brush statement about any group of questions.


should be: group of people.

[KevinLeeC]

Originally posted by Fluffy
This thread just proves some have and will cheat others haven't and would never cheat. It's interesting hearing the guys perspective.

I've been thinking quite a bit about this thread since reading it yesterday and wanted to contribute my thoughts...

The definition of "cheating" seems to be mostly sexual in this discussion. Is that the only way a man can cheat? It seems to me that the sexual act is often just the result of a long period of "emotional" cheating.

In other words, I'm not sure I buy into the "hot woman presents herself and guy takes her" view of cheating. I'm sure it happens, but I don't believe it's the main mechanism of cheating.

I've been happily married nearly seventeen years. MrsKevinLeeC and we have what I would describe as an "idyllic" marriage. It's not perfect and it's not always sunshine and roses, but there's a ton of honesty and respect and a whole lot of shared enjoyment.

If somebody came along and said, "Take me big boy", I'd turn 'em down cold. (In fact, I've had dreams like this and it pleases me to say that even in my dreams I've been faithful.)

However, if I let myself get emotionally entagled with another woman--I mean really connected to the point that I spent a lot of time with her--I could imagine rationalizing all sorts of things.

For just that reason, I stay out of situations and circumstances where I might be tempted to seek that emotional connection. I have female friends of course, but I try to know and respect my boundaries. ("...and avoid the near occasion of sin...")

So, while I don't cheat, I can see how it could happen. And I have seen it happen to other guys. I'm a little leary of "it would never happen to me" and I'm very careful about the circumstances in which I place myself.

[Czarcasm]

I told you what would happen if this continues.

Lockdown.