elf6c, what thead were you reading? (warning - very long)

[Kal]

I'd just like to make it clear that I have no real problem with Duke, as far as I'm concerned we just had a misunderstanding.

This relates to No, we're not fucking quaint. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111440) and it's bloody long, for that I apologise.

Let's begin.

My initial post was in support of the OP, adding that cracks about the accent, bad food, warm beer and bad teeth were just as patronising and rude as calling the place quaint. I also stated the opinion that posters who drive-by with patronizing cultural stereotypes look like jerks.

My second post was in response to Duke because he had said that he lived here for a few years. I asked if, while he was here, people used cultural stereotypes against him and did he find it offensive. I stated my opinion that posting a drive-by just to take a cheap shot is not only unfunny but also jerkish, offensive and ignorant. I concluded by saying (IMHO) that making fun of a person's nationality should be as big a no-no as making fun of a person's sexuality or race.

Duke thought that the comment about drive-bys was aimed at him personally, it wasn't. But anyway, the two lines of a thirteen line post where I'd mentioned food became, after all the noise you've made about saying a country's food is not as good as another's being such a bad insult. I was also accused of planning a "drive-by"--by angling for a negative comment, then jumping all over anyone who did, accusing them of racism or something uncomfortably near it.

I started my third post by telling Duke I wasn't accusing him of a drive by, then: What I was attempting to get across was that when people post in a thread and someone pops up a few posts later with (what is normally) a drive-by, in a dismissive, mocking tone -- It doesn't matter if the comment is about the nationality of the poster, where they work, what State they live in or how many arms they have. It's still patronising, ignorant and that is fucking jerkish. I concentrated on the mocking of the British because that's what I am, therefore it's the main one that pisses me off. It's also what the OP was about.

Calling Britain quaint is not particularly offensive, saying that British food is bad is not particularly offensive. But to post in a thread just to make a crack about the country being quaint, or food bad is.

*snip*

I ain't accusing anyone of racism, but I do think that posting dismissive little stereotyping one- liners that make fun of a person's nationality are as unfunny – and jerkish - as doing the same about a person's race, sexuality or religion.

*Phew, this coding's hard bloody work*

Duke replied: I still just fail to see how contending that English food could use improvement (an argument with which, as I mention, many English food writers agree) is "making fun of a person's nationality." I think we will have to agree to disagree on this point.

In what I intended to be my final reply I publicly apologised to the OP for the hijack. I also apologised to Duke if he took my previous post as a personal insult. Then I agreed with him: You are totally correct; contending that English food could use improvement is not taking the piss. But there are certain places to do so. A thread about British cooking maybe?

My rant (which included far more things than just food, BTW) was about 'humourous' comments that use stereotypes and have nothing to do with the topic in hand. Posting a comment about food/teeth/warm beer in that situation is, IMHO, insulting.

I now felt good. I'd apologised to two people in one pit thread :eek:, I'd agreed with Duke, I'd even, just about, clarified what (and what not) my POV was.

Then elf6c swings on by with this:

Actually saying people's comments are "ignorant" and "fucking jerkish" is a personal attack. Period. Why did you decide to hop into to the thread and start blasting away at people? Like Duke, I am baffled at how you reached the result that someone's nationality was besmerched by mentioning that the cuisine was subpar.

Then even more baffling, you with a straight face claim "but I do think that posting dismissive little stereotyping one-liners that make fun of a person's nationality are as unfunny – and jerkish - as doing the same about a person's race, sexuality or religion." One as we repeatly have pointed out to you, nobody's was.

Worse, your saying pointing out that the food was bad now is equal to religious or racial discrimination? Are you frigging kidding me? With all of the horrible things done in the world- and some of the hateful tactless things people say, you are with a straight face trying to say that pointing out bad food is EQUAL. Spare me. I have no clue why your trying to pick a fight- but you are WAY offbase here. Your hypersentive attitude, yet all too eager to insult posting style is sure to be a big hit here. Welcome to the forums.

I told elf6c to fuck off, elf6c called me a troll.

That, dear Doper, is almost the end of my tale of miscommunication and woe.

Apart from to say -

elf6c, what damn thread were you reading? Where did I say that pointing out that the food was bad now is equal to religious or racial discrimination? Show me. "With all of the horrible things done in the world- and some of the hateful tactless things people say, you are with a straight face trying to say that pointing out bad food is EQUAL." Where. The. Fuck. Did. I. Say. That? Show me.

Tell ya what - Take your welcome and your hugs and kisses, you patronising little worm and fuck off. If you think I'm a troll, then report me to a mod. I've apologised to both Francesca, the OP, for hijacking her thread (who accepted it) and Duke for any perceived personal attack (who hasn't as yet) - I must be a fucking weird troll to do that. If you don't like my "all too eager to insult" posting style? Don't read my posts.

[Duke]

Kal: I'll post my apology here. I would have e-mailed you, but I'm working at home today and can't e-mail from here, only look at the 'Net (long story).

Two things I'd like to say. One, I don't think you're a troll and I don't think you ever equated "not liking a country's food" with "racism." But I was concerned that you'd brought mentions of racially-charged insults (I'm thinking about those you discussed directed at you and your wife) into a thread that hadn't discussed those things previously. It seemed, well, over the top. I was also concerned about this comment, which you copied above:
I ain't accusing anyone of racism, but I do think that posting dismissive little stereotyping one- liners that make fun of a person's nationality are as unfunny – and jerkish - as doing the same about a person's race, sexuality or religion.
In my book, stereotyping by race, and making comments about race, is a form of racism. I know that you don't equate the two in the above comment, but you do suggest that they're cut from the same cloth. I think this is what got elf6c going.

Two, I think you're going to have to be more careful about what you say in the Pit, at least for awhile, to deflect accusations of being a "troll." I know it's bad, but Dopers do look at how many posts someone's made when they make those accusations. It's a defence mechanism. We see someone coming into the Pit, less than 100 posts to their name, and raising the heat on a thread (which you have apologised for, I agree), and we just automatically think "troll." We've had too many people do it in the past, and especially recently, a lot of "one-trick ponies" (see Fenris's threads here for examples). It takes a while, for other Dopers to get to know your style, so they know you're not here to cause trouble.

Last off I just want to explain why I was so combative in the post you took offence with. It's been my opinion that we've had a lot of posts in the Pit saying "you can't say this" or "you can't say that." (My first post in the thread tried to address that.) Also, there's been a lot of consensus lately in the Pit; someone posts something and everyone agrees with it. No one seems willing to stand up and say, "I disagree" a lot of the time. I chose this thread because English food is the only thing I found about England that matched the stereotype more often than not.

Anyway, that's all I have to say about it.

[Hamlet]

Kal. Welcome to the Boards. I just wanted to say that I, for one, didn't think you were a troll. You made your point intelligently, albeit with some reationary venom. You had something you thought was important to say and you said it. I fear the misunderstanding arose because this is a message board, and not a face-to-face conversation with someone you already know, so posts can get ascribed the worst possible connotation by another poster. Unfortunately, that tends to happen more to people with lower post counts, because other posters may not know you or your style.

That being said, if your comment "Posting a drive-by just to take a cheap shot is not only unfunny but also jerkish, offensive and ignorant." was aimed at my comment about dental hygiene, then I would suggest you relax, get a sense of humor, and realize that one of the ways to disempower a stereotype is by mocking it publically.

[Kal]

Duke, thanks for the apology - I don't consider that you owed me one, any misunderstanding in the thread was probably caused by my posts. Thanks also for the advice: I'll try not to be a 'one trick pony' - at my age I don't like the idea of being circumcised and having to buy a 'Tug-Ahoy' :D

Thanks too, Hamlet. Saying that I made my point intelligently is one of the nicest things anyone's said about me and is now going on my CV. :)

Consider take the advice you offered to be taken.