Star Trek

I've been a Star Trek fan for many years now, and since I don't have access to a newsgroup, I thought I'd start a thread here about Star Trek. I figured we'd talk about ships, battles, characters - but please, no Trek v. Wars debates!!! I'll start:

Why are there so many Federation classes of ships (e.g., Nebula, Galaxy, Excelsior, Defiant, Yeager, Intrepid, yadda yadda yadda...) Whereas the Klingons, for example, have the Bird-of-Prey (K'vort and B'rel class), Vor'cha, and Negh'Var classes. Oh, yeah, the D7s are still in use, too. That's 5. I've counted about 25 ships in the Federation. Why is that?

Sorry, that should have said 25 classes, not 25 ships. Geez, it's getting hot in here, no? heh, heh, heh... Where is everybody? This HAS to be an important topic. C'mon, guys, pitch in! Ask a question about Star Trek, ignore mine if you want, whatever! Just POST! I'm trying to get hte Most Posts Before Closure Award. Never heard of it? I just made it up. [looks at watch] Maybe I'd better getr some sleep before I go insane, no?... ;)

Try visiting www.nitcentral.com/discus for lots of discussion on all things Trek.

Probably because the Klingons are more a warrior race and not much into science and exploration, so they might use the same ships for all activities.

The federation, OTOH, gets more into the exploration and science and other such stuff.

OTOH, it might be that the federation is the main focus of ST and therefore more thought goes into its ships and less into the other civilization's ships.

It seems to me that our (US) navy probably has several classes of ships (aircraft carrier, battleship, etc.) so that might have something to do with it as well.

Jeffery

I think ST777 is on the right track (or trek). The Federation is always making improvements on old designs, but they don't always discontinue old classes. So additional classes are created. By the time the TNG rolls around you have a whole bunch of classes.

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Carpe hoc!
(The Artist formerly known as pathunt)

I see your point, but wouldn't 5 classes be much easier to maintain than 25 or 30?

I guess there's really only one reason for so few alien ships. One word - budget?

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Your mother was a hamster, and your father smells of elderberry!

Wow, am I ever glad to find you guys on this board. I was tinking there was just a bunch of geeks around here.

That hurt.

Why did being called a geek hurt? I proudly refer to myself as a geek. That sets me apart from the regular folks in this world.

As for maintaining 5 vs 25, obviously it is cheaper to maintain 5, but we do not know what the reasonable life of each ship is. Let's say it is 20 years, and every 5-10 years they make improvements and create a new "class", why destroy the old stuff. The Newest Enterprise is muuuuuch larger than the orginal. But with some work the design of the orginal could be used for other tasks.

Also, it makes them seem more advanced to have more classes of ships. Besides they do not have to maintain them, just make up new cool names and shapes.

Jeffery

Also, it makes them seem more advanced to have more classes of ships. Besides they do not have to maintain them, just make up new cool names and shapes.

If by "they" you mean "the writers", this is correct. To create a new class of ship, all the writers need do is come up with its name and its purpose (warship, science vessel, etc), and tell the graphic artists to get working.

But if we're discussing the Trek universe as reality, the Federation most definitely does have to maintain its ships. That's why it has all those Starbases, after all. Every time something serious goes wrong with the Enterprise, the engineers make some temporary fix just in time to save the day, and then they "set course for the nearest Starbase" for permanent repairs.

AuraSeer, I was kind of making a joke to remind everyone that eventhough I love Star Trek, I realize that it is fiction. Writers make the ships up and a modeler makes a model.

Of course if it were real, the ships would have to be maintained, but the point was ST is not real.

Jeffery

I'm a geek cause I like Star Trek? Well, then, I guess I'm a geek (female variety) --
I even like the original series (does that make me even geekier?) My UPN channel is showing the originals (uncut) every day now. I'm not into the technical stuff like the classes of the ships. How about Voyager? love it too. My only complaint is the way they dressed 7 of 9. I love the character, but really, a cat suit that makes her look almost naked, and high heels -- on a starship for God's sake. I've read it was done to try to capture more of a male audience, but it's such obvious pandering and imcredibly impractical and bugs me.

They did it because ratings were faltering. Appeal to the biggest audience, thet's their motto. I didn't notice she had high heels. But then again, the ratings are back up...

Are you aware that

- on her first day on the set, Jeri Ryan had to be given oxygen because her suit was too tight?

- Ethan Phillips (Neelix) said of her, "Jeri Ryan is a real bombshell. That suit of hers is very tight. If it were any tighter she'd be dead. It looks like stretched tarmac."?

- around here we refer to her as 2 of 38DD?

[wolfstu]

My suggestion for the existence of several classes of starships is, among other things, time.
The UFP builds, I choose to believe, vessels of enduring quality. This is why Miranda-class vessels are still in service in the days of The Next Generation.
Starfleet will build a class of ships for some time, and then stop when they come up with a better design. With time those first ships dwindle in number, and so need to be replaced. Of course, some of the old are still around when the replacements come into service.

[Ice Wolf]

Just an eensy-weensy ...

Wolfstu, you are the Thread Resurrector Supreme. Six so far? Great idea! Your fellow Wolf salutes you!

Is this because of the Great Cull to come?

[wolfstu]

Hijack implies trouble. I prefer to view you post as a temporary diversion to the masseuse.

Thank you for the comment. Your approval is certainly appreciated.

wolfstu

[St. Attila]

I feel it's my duty to post in every Star Trek related thread this important observation:

Star Trek:Voyager eats the corn out of my poo.

Thank you for your time.

[Esprix]

Wolfstu, point your little mousey-thingie here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=59739) and check out a new thread just for you... :rolleyes:

Esprix

[SPOOFE]

I just want to point out that almost every ship in the Federation is comparable to a minivan.

[ChiefScott]

Caution: Sacrilage ahead!






















Hey! They're feckin' TV shows and movies! Get laid already!

[carnivorousplant]

You mean...gasp...they're not reall?
Oh yeah?
Well what about Andromeda, Mr. Smart Guy?
Ha!

[Diceman]

I know that I'm going to get flamed 'till I'm well-done for this, but: the whole Star Trek franchise needs to go on hiatus. If you watch Voyager, it's painfully obvious that they've been out of original ideas for quite some time now. They need to have a few years where there are no Star Trek shows on TV. Later, when they've got a good new idea and some writers with actual talent, then they should create a new show. Please don't cobble something together right after Voyager ends just so that there can be some kind of Star Trek show on TV.

I think that they should end Voyager with a mutiny. Chakotay finds out that the Federation has decided to arrest Voyager's Maquis crewmembers. In the name of galactic peace and reconcilliation and all of that crap, they will be turned them over to the Cardassians (who will, of course, execute them). The arrests will occur when Voyager arrives at DS9 back in the Alpha Quadrant. Also, Tom Paris is going to be sent back to prison and the Holographic Doctor is going to be replaced with a new version of his program. Chakotay, Torres, Paris, and the Doctor plan to escape from Voyager before arrival at DS9. The climax of the episode occurs while the team is on their last away mission. Our guys try to escape, but the plan is foiled -- by Janeway and Tuvok! In a stunning twist, it is revealed that Janeway knew about the Federation's plans all along. Although they presented a major moral dilemma for her, Janeway (true to her character) decided to put her personal feelings aside and keep the orders a secret, telling only Tuvok. A dramatic fight ensues, and it ends with Janeway and Tuvok being killed. Chakotay, now the acting captain, makes some excuse to the crew for Janeway and Tuvok's death, and docks Voyager at a different space station than DS9. While the crew is on shore leave, Chakotay, Torres, Paris, and the Doctor sneak a remnant band of Maquis onto Voyager and leave. Voyager is now a pirate ship...

[Cheese Head]

I don't follow Trek shows regularly. Can someone set me straight on the series?

First, there was the original Star Trek in the 1960's. Then in the 1980's there was the Next Generation with Capt. Picard. That was followed by a series (name?) with a Black captain (name?). Both of those have long ended, right?

Now there is Voyager with Capt. Janeway and the borgs. However, I heard this is it's last year. Will that finally be end of the Trek series?

What was the timelines for the series? What have been the longest running series (# of episodes)? When did the Klingons make peace with humans?

[Cheese Head]

I found some answers:

ST Next Generation, Capt Picard 1987-88 : 1993-94. 8 years.
ST Deep Space Nine, Capt Sisko 1993: 1997-98. 6 years.
ST Voyager, Capt Janeway 1995 : 2000-01. 7 years.

[Ethilrist]

They're in the planning stages for something they're calling Series V. All they've announced so far is that Brannon Braga will be the Executive Producer.

They're also working on Star Trek X, the tenth movie. Patrick Stewart's been signed, John Logan will write it, and there'll be Klingons.

So, any theories on what Series V will be about? My guesses:

1. Starfleet Academy. God, I hope not. It would probably devolve into StarTredk 90210...

2. Non-starfleet merchant or research vessel, kind of like 7 of 9's parents.

3. Klingons. It would save a lot on lights.

[Palandine]

Originally posted by Cheese Head
What was the timelines for the series?

Argh. I've been griping about this over on Nit Central.

Voyager's going to have some real problems coming up with any sort of a compelling ending.

Even though DS9 ended years ago, in the Voyager timeline they are in essentially the same time frame. For example, in season 5 the Maquis members of the Voyager crew were told that the Cardassians had killed all the Maquis. This happened in, I think, late season 4 or early season 5 of DS9.

Now it's season 7 of Voyager, and it looks like only 2 years or so have passed since they found out about the beginning of the Dominion alliance with the Cardassians (the destruction of the Maquis happened before the war began with the Federation and the Klingons). Now, as a result of some truly silly tech, the Voyager folks are able to interact with Starfleet back on earth. However, in the 2 or 3 episodes this season that have involved Starfleet headquarters, there was no mention that they were involved with or had just concluded a HUGE war. Indeed, at the end of DS9 the Breen attack Earth and do a huge amount of damage to San Francisco.

This is a problem--the Starfleet Headquarters seen this season is not an HQ at war. Major Starfleet personnel are shown taking leisurely vacations; they have time to deal with these 150 people lost in space. It just makes no sense.

Yet the Dominion War was an enormous undertaking. Millions of Starfleet personnel died. Betazed and Trill were occupied. Billions of Cardassians and Klingons died. And still there is no mention of any of it.

The Voyager writers had all this information going in. They're just incredibly sloppy.

Personally, if the Voyager folks get home, I would like to see all the Maquis jailed for their crimes. Janeway herself has committed treasonable offenses and violations of the Prime Directive innumerable times. Somehow, though, it will all get swept under the carpet. My preference would be if they basically killed them all getting home, but the powers that be wouldn't be that brave.

I dislike Voyager, yet I must watch. :) I really really miss DS9, though.

[Diceman]

Minor nitpick, Cheese Head: Wasn't Ben Sisko's rank Commander, not Captain?

[Palandine]

Originally posted by Diceman
Wasn't Ben Sisko's rank Commander, not Captain?

The Sisko became a Captain after season 3 (and a Prophet after season 7)

[Ethilrist]

Originally posted by Palandine
Originally posted by Diceman
Wasn't Ben Sisko's rank Commander, not Captain?

The Sisko became a Captain after season 3 (and a Prophet after season 7)

I think a Prophet ranks a Captain, but they're not in the same service branch.

[UncleBill]

The Ford Ranger pickup and the Bronco II had nearly every part interchangable, just a different body and different "mission".

If ChiefScott is still listening, he may correct me, but I seem to believe the hulls of several US Navy vessels are the same, just the superstructure changes (Spruance Destroyer and Aegis Cruiser?), and henceforth, the mission.

So we can follow this ecomony of manufacturing into ST days, and the 25 or so types very well could be only 10 or 12 airframes (spaceframes?) w/ different systems, weapons, drives, and staffing.

But 7 ROCKS!

[ChiefScott]

Bill, close but...

A "class" of ship is a "kind" of ship within ship "types." This is tough to explain without using Navyese.

There are different ships for each mission in the Navy. There are support ships, amphibious ships, troop carriers, ammo/oilers, aircraft carriers, anti-surface, anti-sub, close support, etc.

The "types" of ship fullfill these missions: let's use a Cruiser as an example.

In a sense, cruisers (CGs) can be considered large destroyers. Where destroyers are designed to operate with a task force, cruisers can operate indepenently as well. They have larger crews, more elaborate electronics, more weapons and have a greater steaming endurance.
The Navy has better than 40 CGs. Some are oil-burning (CG) some have nuclear power plants (CGN).
Of the CGNs there are two classes. A class is a... well, class of ship within a type. Usually, when money for a new lot of ships is appropriated, the navy will create a new ship which better fulfills it's mission with new technology and lessons learned from previous classes. They create a new class of CG. The new class is named after the first ship built in that class.

Currently we have the California (CGN-36) class and the Virginia (CGN-38) class nuclear-powered cruisers.

To make matters worse, the Bainbridge (CGN-25) and Truxtun, completed in 1962 and 67 respectively, were originally classed as misile frigates. Though they were the forerunners (and built before) the Calis and Vas, they are considered the third class of CGNs.

But to totally deflate Bill, there're more differences between kinds of ships (carriers and destroyers) than types of ships (Virginia and Bainbridge). But the different classes may or may not have the same or different hull types, superstructures, weaponry, compartmentation, etc.

As you can see this can be confusing. I hope StarFleet, should it ever come about, uses a different type of system.

[slortar]

I heard a strong rumor that the next Star Trek series will be about the birth of the Federation. It probably won't depart from a "military" setting becaues the series designers have a strong feeling that Star Trek has always and will always be about the Federation. Bummer.

And yes, Voyager blows. I'd try to prove myself wrong but I can't sit through more than 5 minutes at a time (except for the Doctor--he rocks).