Chandra Levy Found? [Archive] - Straight Dope Message Board

sidle

05-22-2002, 12:16 PM

Huh.
I wonder if they already know it's Levy's body.. Otherwise, why would they find a female skeleton and assume that it's her? I suppose they can tell how long the body's been there, but would anyone make that possible connection officially known without a little more proof?

dragongirl

05-22-2002, 12:21 PM

On the news they were saying that they couldn't be sure yet, there are clothes, but nobody knows what she was wearing the day she disappeared. They are now also saying that they are not sure if the body is even female.

I think they are believing that it's Chandra because her computer shows that she was looking at the park the day she disappeared.

If it is her, I wonder if she just fell off of a cliff or something, that it was an accident, no foul play at all, not that I know anything about the park.

World Eater

05-22-2002, 12:57 PM

Seems a bit premature to guess it's Chandra. It will be interesting to see how Gary reacts to this news.

booklover

05-22-2002, 12:59 PM

Rock Creek Park is pretty much lacking in cliffs, though I suppose you could jump off one of the overpasses.

I suspect they must have some kind of unreleased info that makes them think it's Levy. Not to sound gory, but DC isn't exactly lacking in the unattended-dead-bodies department.

booklover

05-22-2002, 01:03 PM

Here's the Washington Post's take on it so far:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56845-2002May22.html

Arnold Winkelried

05-22-2002, 01:45 PM

For those of you that know the area - is this park the kind of spot where the body of someone that died accidentally could remain undiscovered this long?

gobear

05-22-2002, 01:52 PM

For those of you that know the area - is this park the kind of spot where the body of someone that died accidentally could remain undiscovered this long?

Not really. Rock Creek Park is big, but there are hikers and joggers and bikers there every day. It's a busy place, it's right in the heart of DC, and it's within reasonable walking distance of several Red Line Metro stops. It's not at all isolated.

sidle

05-22-2002, 02:22 PM

I suspect they must have some kind of unreleased info that makes them think it's Levy. Not to sound gory, but DC isn't exactly lacking in the unattended-dead-bodies department.

Yep-Booklover-that is exactly what I was trying to say.

booklover

05-22-2002, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by gobear

Not really. Rock Creek Park is big, but there are hikers and joggers and bikers there every day. It's a busy place, it's right in the heart of DC, and it's within reasonable walking distance of several Red Line Metro stops. It's not at all isolated.

However, most folks stick to the paths and certain well-known areas. There's certainly plenty of woodsy underbrush and not very well-lit areas that people would purposely avoid. To my thinking, this actually would make it a pretty decent place to stash a body.

trishdish

05-22-2002, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried
For those of you that know the area - is this park the kind of spot where the body of someone that died accidentally could remain undiscovered this long?

I guess it could considering that Rock Creek is very large (it basically dissects the city in two as it runs through the middle). But this was an area that was first pinpointed to search when Chandra was first announced as missing. Police officers, dogs and large search teams scoured the park looking for her, scraps of clothing, etc. It seems strange that they would not have located her body at that time and it could now be discovered by a jogger.

bup

05-22-2002, 02:57 PM

Rock Creek Park is essentially a giant ravine, named for the creek at the bottom. The trails mostly follow the bottom, and many of the hills are pretty steep and don't invite hiking. A body on a wooded hill there could be there a while.

Fiver

05-22-2002, 03:01 PM

The story also says the clothes were found near the body. Not actually on the body. Maybe the story didn't mean to make that distinction, but if so it would seem to rule in foul play, unless she was an exhibitionist.

booklover

05-22-2002, 03:43 PM

On the other hand, clothes can be scattered by animal scavengers, or the clothes found could be totally unrelated to the body found (they could, for example, belong to one of the many homeless people in DC).

They did apparently search that area originally, but I think in the Post article Ramsey says something to the effect that it's a difficult area to search thoroughly.

Max Carnage

05-22-2002, 04:15 PM

Doesn't seem to me if Gary Condit were involved in her disappearance that hiding the body in the same city where you work would be all that smart. Unless he's an idiot (and he may be, I don't konw enought about the story to make an educatied decision) he looks more innocent. Again, I'm not up on the story 100%.

jk1245

05-22-2002, 04:34 PM

Not that I'm an expert on the area or finding bodies, but I recall reading way back when this was the national story (those were the days) that they searched Rock Creek Park pretty thoroughly. Seems very odd that a trained search force complete with dogs would miss a body that was exposed enough for someone just jogging by to find it.

The plot thickens (if it's her, that is).

SisterCoyote

05-22-2002, 04:37 PM

As far as the body being in a heavily travelled area and still not found:

Oddly, it happens all the time. There are reports (my personal resources come from William R. Maples' excellent text Dead Men Do Tell Tales and Douglas Ubelaker's Bones) of policemen searching an area heavily and finding one body, but missing two others that were in "plain sight" at the same location, or of bodies not being found because the bones appeared to be sticks normally protruding from the ground (in that particular case, found because a policeman had to urinate. Go figure).

Now, as far as how the body will be identified - I presume they'll bring in a forensic pathologist or forensic anthropologist (like the aforementioned gentlemen) and have them look at the skeleton. Also, a forensic dentist will likely be called in, and both the bones and the teeth of the skeleton will be compared to x-rays of Ms. Levy taken while she was alive.

Any means of death that could have left a mark on the bones will also be explored.

In a way, I hope it is her, if only so the family can get some closure. Not the closure they want, of course, but closure nonetheless.

Anubis

05-22-2002, 04:57 PM

This just in: they confirmed that is is indeed Chandra Levy's body.

Wonderful what the news can do, ain't it?

jk1245

05-22-2002, 04:58 PM

Just announced...

It is her (http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/05/22/levy.body/index.html)

Wonder what ol' Gar is doing right about now?

Geobabe

05-22-2002, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by jk1245
Just announced...

It is her (http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/05/22/levy.body/index.html)

Wonder what ol' Gar is doing right about now? Calling his lawyer, I'd suppose. Even if he didn't do it, he knows darn well he's the prime suspect.

Gatopescado

05-22-2002, 05:15 PM

I don't believe for a second that they "missed" her body the first time around. If you ask me (and I don't recall anyone doing that, but here you go anyway) it was put there after the dust settled from the original investigation, in hopes that it would look like an accident or random street-type crime and good old GC would skate away, arm-in-arm with OJ and Barretta off to the country club for a quick round on the back nine.

Now the fun begins...............................

Shadowfox

05-22-2002, 05:19 PM

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that to be true. Most likely, she went walking in the park and some idiot grabbed her, robbed her or raped her, and then probably strangled her or something. I think the fact that she happened to be the mistress of a congressman is pure coincidence. I just can't see Condit being dumb enough to have her taken out. She was leaving Washington in a few days; he probably would have never seen her again. Unless she was threatening to talk to the tabloids or something, which is something they have never established.

handy

05-22-2002, 06:08 PM

I think the FBI knows who it is, they just don't want to tell yet. Eventually they did. I forgot
why they do this.

vanilla

05-22-2002, 06:56 PM

they programmed you to forget..

Triskadecamus

05-22-2002, 07:22 PM

Rock Creek Park is more that twice the size of New York City's Central Park. While it is quite narrow in some places, there are a number of places which are seldom used by the public.

The local news has said it is not clear if she was buried, and exhumed by natural forces (rain, animals) or if her remains were scattered after partial decomposition. There will be a lot of forensic investigation.

There were searches in the area where she was found, in the weeks after she disappeared. A mansion on the park grounds in the vicinity of the location where her remains were found was the subject of one of the sites she accessed on the internet shortly before she disappeared.

Tris

The Mermaid

05-22-2002, 08:39 PM

I get the strong feeling that she died very near to where she was found. Maybe as suggested she was mugged or raped and her body was tossed there or while she was visiting the area she slipped and fell landing in an area with thick underbrush. Dogs may have found the body and tore it apart a bit.

I feel sorry for Gary Condit. He lied about have the affair with her initially but I just think that if he killed her or had her killed he would have disposed of the body in some way better than this.

Would anyone think it was wrong to have his life ruined while everyone thought he was a murderer or will it be chalked up to well he shoulded have been having an affair.

Slainte

05-22-2002, 08:57 PM

I think if Gary Condit had been cooperative with the police from the beginning, he would have been forgotten by now - but he was quite evasive with the police & the Levy Family. If he is innocent & had nothing to hide, why be so difficult? Because he wanted to protect his wife from his infidelity? Please! Once someone is missing/ presumed dead you have much bigger problems then how your wife will feel about your cheating heart.

Barking Spider

05-22-2002, 11:03 PM

Mmmmm... Was that Gary Condit I just seen driving down the road in a White Bronco?

Sam Stone

05-23-2002, 01:10 AM

This is a big breakthrough in the case, and it doesn't look good for Condit. One big connection now is that in the last 3 hours Levy was at home, she had spent time on the internet looking up both Gary Condit's campaign site and his schedule, and information about the mansion in Rock Creek Park. Her body was found less than a mile from that exact location.

Doug Bowe

05-23-2002, 03:09 AM

Is this a breakthrough?
Let's wait to hear from the forensic anthropologists.

In the meantime the investigative coverage seems to have established that Condit consistently cheated on his wife in Sacramento and later in Washington.

japatlgt

05-23-2002, 04:30 AM

Originally posted by The Mermaid
I
I feel sorry for Gary Condit. He lied about have the affair with her initially but I just think that if he killed her or had her killed he would have disposed of the body in some way better than this.

Thats my take. Condit appeared to me to just be your average politician attempting to dodge controversy. Being romantically linked to a victim doesn't necessarily imply involvement in their misfortune. A very good case in point for avoiding extramarital hankypanky.

RTFirefly

05-23-2002, 04:55 AM

Do I think Condit had a hand in Levy's murder? No.

Do I feel sorry for the sleazebag? No.

Like Slainte said, once it was a matter of abduction and likely murder, the time for evasiveness was over. He still deserves to be tarred and feathered for slowing down the original investigation in order to save himself from embarrassment.

I'll save my sympathy for her family.

El Elvis Rojo

05-23-2002, 08:09 AM

Does no one else find it odd that her body turns up now, just as Washington starts to get scrutinized about how much they knew about terrorist activities before 911? Suddenly, this forgotten national story gets brought back into the lime light. Interesting.

I work for a news station her in Austin, and here are a few tidbits of information we've gleamed that I haven't seen discussed yet.

She was identified by her dental records. Why? Because what they found was a skeleton with no hair, skin, or other DNA. It seems to have been stripped clean.

Her skeleton was scattered, meaning she wasn't burried in one piece. Sure, some animal could have gotten to her body, but then it most likely would have wandered off with something, and as far as I know, she's all there.

It's a fairly well traveled park, and they'd already done an intense investigation of the area. For her body to suddenly turn up after a year without anyone having noticed is very suspicious.

I'm not shouting conspiracy theory here, but there was DEFINITELY foul play involved, not just some simple mugging gone wrong. It looks like her body was moved to its present location, but whether or not the authorities will report it like that, who knows? I feel Condit has something to do with it, but exactly how much is something I feel needs to be investigated.

jb_farley

05-23-2002, 08:41 AM

posted by Sam Stone
it doesn't look good for Condit... [Levy] had spent time on the internet looking up both Gary Condit's campaign site and his schedule, and information about the mansion in Rock Creek Park.

wha? she worked for Condit, right? so what's odd about her having checked his site out?

and it's just as likely (since we (non-Law) have no real facts in the case) that she was killed whilst strolling or jogging, by a mugger/rapist/socio. again, if she was gonna go check a mansion out, is it that odd that she would have looked it up on the net?

not saying she was killed by a crazy and not a condit, though.

jb

trishdish

05-23-2002, 09:17 AM

Actually, JB, she did not work for Condit. She met him while doing an internship for another federal agency of which the name escapes me right now. Bureau of Prisons?!?

voguevixen

05-23-2002, 10:01 AM

On our local news last night they mentioned that some of the items found with/near the remains were jogging clothes and a radio so I'm leaning toward her being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

She was identified by her dental records. Why? Because what they found was a skeleton with no hair, skin, or other DNA. It seems to have been stripped clean.

I don't think that's the case, I believe it's just faster to use dental records than it is to wait for DNA results. I seem to recall that there was some hair and skin but I was listening to newsradio while I was driving so I was only half-listening and might've misheard. Be that as it may, no one is implying that she killed herself and buried herself in the woods, so yes: there is obvious foul play involved, I just don't see any evidence pointing to Condit yet.

Zoff

05-23-2002, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by RTFirefly
Like Slainte said, once it was a matter of abduction and likely murder, the time for evasiveness was over. He still deserves to be tarred and feathered for slowing down the original investigation in order to save himself from embarrassment.

And this is what really did him in. Everything I read about the voters in Modesto said they were disgusted with his evasiveness. It wasn't that they thought he killed Chandra Levy, they just thought the misleading answers were inappropriate when there was an active missing person case. So, he really got tarred for the appropriate reason, in my opinion.

As for looking Condit up, I'm not so sure that's necessarily damning evidence. She had been in a relationship with him. That could be a very mundane thing that only looks strange in hindsight. I don't think we have enough facts to really say much about what happened. I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe he killed her, but I'm going to join Slainte and RTFirefly for a drink in the "No sympathy for Condit" section.

handy

05-23-2002, 10:17 AM

A local lady was found by a jogger too at Fort Ord. I think they should have joggers for searchers instead of
the FBI...

bup

05-23-2002, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by El Elvis Rojo
Her skeleton was scattered, meaning she wasn't burried in one piece. Sure, some animal could have gotten to her body, but then it most likely would have wandered off with something, and as far as I know, she's all there.

I've heard there's not a complete skeleton at all. Just some bones and a damaged skull.

Originally posted by El Elvis Rojo
It's a fairly well traveled park, and they'd already done an intense investigation of the area. For her body to suddenly turn up after a year without anyone having noticed is very suspicious.
[/B]

Again, Rock Creek Park is a ravine, and except for the path and road at the bottom, it's billygoat land. She was reported found on a steep, wooded slope, and the guy who found her had to brush leaves off the skull before *he* even realized he had found a skull.

Incideintally, a mile and a half from a mansion is really a pretty good distance away, in Washington.

casdave

05-23-2002, 12:11 PM

If a jogger found the remains then the area must be joggable, ie not all that secluded.

SaxFace

05-23-2002, 12:40 PM

Some facts from the Washington Post:

The bones were found by a dog. A man and his dog were hiking the ravine, hunting turtles, when the dog began to get excited. The man went over to see what it was and unearthed the skull.

I biked Rock Creek Park last night. Parts of it are heavily forested, other parts are comprised of exercise courses and jogging paths. The area where Chandra's remains were found is made up of hills and dense foliage. The further north you go in the park, the more isolated and creepy it becomes. Don't even talk about the Maryland section. Yikes!

Slainte

05-23-2002, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by Zoff

I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe he killed her, but I'm going to join Slainte and RTFirefly for a drink in the "No sympathy for Condit" section.

I'm honored to be joined by such esteemed company.:D

I don't think he killed her either, I just find it appalling that he obstructed justice in such a serious situation.

lilelly28

05-23-2002, 08:24 PM

Was at Rock Creek park a week or so ago, it's a big park; and as well, there's lots of areas that are generally untraveled. Easy to see how something could go unnoticed there when you've actually been to some of the more "secluded" spots.

Dental records are a fast and reliable way to make a positive identification. Indeed there's still DNA there, but it takes time to process that information (and do it properly).

Sounds like a lot of people are jumping the gun on Condit again. Course it's possible, but I wouldn't assume anything at this point. That's tacky.

Least it's a change of pace from the terrorist "this" and terrorist "that" drama the media keeps masturbating on.

Michael Ellis

05-23-2002, 09:22 PM

Forget Chandra for a moment, that guy was hunting turtles?

jk1245

05-24-2002, 12:46 AM

Originally posted by Michael Ellis
Forget Chandra for a moment, that guy was hunting turtles?

No kidding. Is that pervertspeak for something ;)

booklover

05-24-2002, 08:39 AM

Hey, c'mon, he was hunting turtles with his dog. Perhaps the dog likes turtles and he was doing it to entertain the dog :)

Who knows, maybe MPD should hire the dog---it'd be less expensive than recruiting new people.

Anyhoo, back to the original topic, the NY Times says something to the effect that they're checking out a guy known to have assaulted two other women in Rock Creek Park.

handy

05-25-2002, 09:43 AM

They find a bodyin that park & you guys are riding & walking through it? Ever thought about the safety
issue of doing this? Hmmm...

Annie-Xmas

05-25-2002, 09:49 AM

A comment on Thursday's news coverage from our local morning news guys: GWB could have been walking on the GWB holding a dog leash with Ossam bin Laden on the other end, and the lead news story would still have been Chaundra Levy.

Michael Ellis

05-25-2002, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by handy
They find a bodyin that park & you guys are riding & walking through it? Ever thought about the safety
issue of doing this? Hmmm...

:confused:

wring

05-25-2002, 06:19 PM

A body will decompose. Heavily wooded areas have trees with leaves that fall and decompose. Animals and birds finding what they perceive as food will do as they will.

When we've come across animal remains in the woods they're seldom intact.

I have no sympathy for Condit (sleezy womanizing men who cheat on their spouses aint' one of my favorite demographics), but it's a hellava leap from that to 'he had something to do with it'.

And, since it's pretty damned likely that she died fairly soon after she'd disappeared (otherwise, she'd have returned to her appartment etc.), what exactly would have been different if he'd told the cops 'oh yea, we were having an affair but broke up?"

let's recall that 'all the presidents horses and men' who searched the park over and over last summer didn't find her. So, even if he'd said "Yes, I talked to her at 1:15 pm and she was on her way to Rock Creek Park for a jog" (not saying that is what happened), I don't see what would have been different.

Zoff

05-26-2002, 04:30 PM

what exactly would have been different if he'd told the cops 'oh yea, we were having an affair but broke up?"

Perhaps nothing, but I don't think it's his call to make. He decided his potential political viability was more important than the potential aid to the investigation. I think that's the disgust people are expressing.

Maybe his information wouldn't have helped, but that's all in hindsight. At the time he had a choice to make and he made the wrong one.

Ludovic

11-23-2010, 07:54 AM