-Great Expectations-

[DougC]

- - - For those of you still single and looking, (or those married with an opinion) what would make you disregard someone as a posible SO? My "rules" on potential mates are as follows:
- Members of opposite sex only (!)
- No drug users - (This is kinda practical because my best friends from high school all turned out to be cops)
- NO SMOKERS! - (Ugh) If you don't smoke, you notice that smokers and everything they own smells like (stale) cigarette smoke
- No heavy drinkers - (I ain't a babysitter) and -
- No Jesus (or Budda or whatever) freaks - being religious is okay but giving out literature and trying to convert people on the street (including me) wears thin real fast.
-
- A friend was ribbing me about my "near-celibate" lifestyle recently because this list eliminates most of the people I know, but this is the stuff I simply could not/would not stand for. Am I too picky? What's on your "List"? - MC

[Stoid]

Well, my list was pretty much the same as yours, except for the smoking part, seeing as I smoke. Although I wanted to be with a non-smoker so I wouldn't have to deal with a smoker when I wanted to quit.

I had another which became a huge, huge, huge problem. One of the items on my list was "NO gun owners!" For a whole host of reasons I won't go into here, except that the bottom line was that if and when we moved in together or married, I would not live with a gun in my house.

Well, I now have a gun in my house. I am NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT AT ALL. But I try not to think about it....



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*************
He who laughs last thinks slowest.

[Byzantine]

People who:
Hit to express anger
Drink to excess
Drug to excess
Don't have a sense of humor
Are obsessed with guns
Cheat on me
Are bigoted or racist

Those are the big ones for me. Other than that I've loved tall, short, thin, fat and many different races, religions etc. I've even been deeply in love with other women. I don't see any shame in that at all. It's easy for me to fall in love I guess!

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The moon looks on many flowers, the flowers on but one moon.

[Globe-trotter]

Is there anything sexier than an intelligent man with a wicked sense of humour? It gets me every time. :)

Narrow-minded bigots need not apply.

------------------
I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
Alexandre Dumas the Younger (1824-1895)

[Fretful Porpentine]

- Must not tell ethnic jokes (pet peeve, but one validated by painful experience).

- Must be nice to waitresses and customer service people. (Usually people are on their best behavior when they start dating someone new, but the way they act toward OTHERS offers some valuable clues about their character.)

- Must love and respect his mother.

[Strainger]

I'll echo a number of MC's statements and add my own:

- Opposite sex only!! To further elaborate, transexuals don't count!
- No drug users, not even pot!
- Absolutely NO SMOKING!
- Drinking's fine, but be responsible about it.
- Believe in God. Go to church with me. If we belong to different religions, we can take turns.
- Have a (preferably warped :)) sense of humor!
- Appreciate the arts - classical music, theater, opera, painting, etc.
- Appreciate nature. Hike/camp/mountain bike with me. (At least camp and do a little hiking.) Get your hands dirty!
- Be open-minded. Don't be quick-to-judge or prejudiced.
- Be affectionate. I am.
- Smile. A lot.
- Be ambitious, but have a life.
- No, I'm not looking for Cindy Crawford here, but exercise regularly. Take care of yourself.
- Above all, if I'm willing to be in a relationship with you, it means that I've accepted you for who you are. Please extend the same courtesy and don't try to change me.

Well, if the person is not Christian, then I will not consider a serious relationship with them.
So basically, if the person IS Christian, they're a pretty good prospect to me. :)

Oh yea, OBVIOUSLY they need to be female. But I figured that was implied above.

Adam

[ChrisCTP]

Silly me for thinking this would be about the story...

Well, I hate to say it, but if Byron and I were ever to get divorced, the ideal guy would have to fit the following criteria:

Must love kids, and be active in Bowen's life. Not only that, but he must want kids of his own, since I'd someday like to have more than one.

Must love me. Not in spite of the things that make me different from him, but because of them. Common interests are fabulous, but having someone around who always agrees with you is boring. Must have a profound appreciation for creativity, messy hair, ugly shoes and colourful barrettes. Should not tell me that I have misshapen nostrils, or that my ears are too small, or that the top of my head is the most attractive part of my body. It would be nice if he shared my gift for foreign accents. He must also be an active participant in the Ancient Ritual of Housecleaning and Errand Running Before Intercourse. If he's at least heard of it, and tried it a few times, I'll consider him. Must pretend he's excited to go visit my family, or at least come along voluntarily. Must be non-violent, and not a habitual user of drugs or alcohol, (in fact, I prefer NO use of drugs, not even occasional social usage). Must be accepting of people's differences. Gay, straight, white, black, athletic, nerdy, whatever. I don't even like to use "accepting", I'd rather use something like "oblivious" or "indifferent", but those have negative connotations. What I'm looking for is a word that makes the point that "He makes his judgements of people based on their actions, not on their station, because those things don't matter." Make sense? Must be fiercely intelligent, witty, charming, and clever. Enough so that he doesn't feel silly acting silly. Must have a complete store of bad puns, the ability to clean up the mess when my train of thought gets derailed, and have a knack for rewriting songs (like that really annoying "I Want It That Way" to "I Want A Snack Cake", and so forth.) Must prefer text-only books to comic books, comedies to action movies, and Janeane Garofalo to Pamela Lee. His idea of a "date" will not include McDonald's, Jackie Chan, or video Solitaire at the nearest truck stop. However, he should agree that getting a couple of coffees from the convenience store before driving around aimlessly is definitely worth paying a babysitter. He will reciprocate when I give him a massage or scratch his back, and occasionally he will give me a massage or scratch my back without me asking. He'll need to realise the importance of saying "I Love You" even though I already know he does. If he resembles Joseph Fiennes or Jeff Goldblum, that's a major bonus, but heart-melting good looks are not a requirement. Just being clean and willing to wear something other than jeans and Tshirts is good enough. There are a million other requirements, but this has been enough for me to realise that The Perfect Man does not exist in real life. Damn.



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Veni, Vidi, Visa ... I came, I saw, I bought.

[Kat]

(1) He must not be a jackass. (This covers a lot.)
(2) No smoking, no drugs.
(3) He must have a sense of humor.
(4) He must never say "I don't know, what do you want to do?"
(5) He needs to respect me, my opinion, my beliefs, etc., even if he doesn't share them. As a corollary, he needs to be someone who (whom?) I can respect.

Pretty much everything else I would object to would fall under (1).

[MrKnowItAll]

Life signs would be nice. (Don't laugh, I've dated a few girls that this requirement should have weeded out.) ;)

[DougC]

- - - On the other hand, I'm willing to drop any two (2) of my rules if the girl actually has a mechanical bull in her bedroom. Hasn't happened yet, but she's out there, , , somewhere, , , , , ,- MC

[Drain Bead]

I actually have an A-Z list of what I'm looking for in a man. Spent an entire evening making it up, but it's amusing. I won't bother sharing it here, because it's long and detailed, but suffice it to say that any man I ever date has to have at least 80% of the characteristics on that list, or we will no longer be dating. I've broken up with several men because of it, and it's never been wrong.

[bantmof]

My musts:

o Must be female.
o Must NOT be seriously religious.
o No smokers or hard core drug users.
o Must like cats. My cats get the final say anyway. :-)
o Must have at least a few common interests so we'll have somethin' to do together.
o Must have a sense of humor. An offbeat and irreverent one is a bonus, but is not required.
o Must be living in the same reality I am living in. No alien abductees, conspiracy freaks, new-age crystal hippies, born again christians, or reincarnated people need apply.

High wants:

o Fit enough to enjoy doing physical things I like doing - moderately intense hiking, cycling, etc.
o Holding the same values I do dear is a big bonus - freedom of speech, personal responsibility, etc.

--
peas on earth

[Stoid]

Drain:

how do you kow whether the list is wrong or not if you keep dumping guys because they don't measure up?



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*************
He who laughs last thinks slowest.

[Greg Charles]

That's interesting. My brother has a friend who was ready to get married, but wasn't finding a good mate. She felt she was wasting time with people who, while fun to be with, weren't right for her as a life partner. So she made a list of all the things she wanted in a partner, and wouldn't date anyone who didn't score at least 80%, just like Drain Bead. (You don't know my brother, do you Drain?) Anyway, when she met a guy who scored 93%, she married him. Do a lot of people do this? It sounds a bit overly practical to me.

P.S. DB, what does Mike (? I can never remember his name) score?

[Drain Bead]

When something starts going wrong in the relationship, I look at the list. Inevitably, they'll have lost some things on there that they had when we started out. So I break up with them, and life goes on. I certainly don't have any regrets--usually the one I end up ending a relationship over is the R (for responsibility). That's an important one.

[Drain Bead]

I did get the idea from someone else, a friend of my grandmother's. So depending on how old your brother is, I may know him.

Mind you, the list doesn't make the first or the final decision, I do. It does, however, clue me in to the fact that something is definitely wrong, and given the way infatuation works, I might not have noticed it on my own.

What am I looking for in a man? Breathing, heterosexual and willing to be seen in public with me.

But seriously:

Religion is not a part of my life, and I would prefer to be with someone who felt the same way.

No drugs.

Social drinking ok.

No smoking.

Must love animals. (In a legal way, of course.)

Must not want children.

Intelligence is a must. I really admire people with well rounded educations, people who can talk about almost anything.

I don't care if a guy is messy (clothes all over the floor) but I cannot tolerate a man who is dirty (black scum in the bath tub and dirty dishes in the sink).

Most of the guys I am attracted to don't have movie star good looks, but a man has got to take pride in the way he presents himself.


That's all I can think of for now. Maybe what I want is too much, and that is why I have no love life.

[Felinecare]

No griping about the Ex. I don't care if you were married to Satan incarnate, at best you're whining about the past (which is over, isn't it? ISN'T IT?) and at worst you're proclaiming you have poor judgment about relationships, which is not the impression you want me to receive.

No griping to your kids about the Ex. This makes you Satan incarnate.

"Opposite sex only!! To further elaborate, transexuals don't count!"

Umm, Strainger, I don't know whether you're a man or a woman, but a post-operative male-to-female transsexual is a woman. All woman. Legally, medically, socially, etc. If you don't want to date 'em, why not? Do you think it would make you "gay?"

[wireless]

Personal hygiene is a must!

I'm not talking about obsessing on this. I forget to brush my teeth every once in a while. And it's ok to be a bit smelly when just returning from a run/camping trip/the barn/whatever, but the next day (or even a few hours later) it's definitely NOT OK.

I'd hope this would go without saying, but from what I hear, it's not a given in the wide world of dating. Ick!

[DougC]

- - - I understand that for post-op transexual women, the surgery can be done so well that it's difficult to see or feel anything unusual (assuming others get close enough to feel). The thought of a PMS-free girlfriend does sound tempting, but I think it would still kinda creep me out though. - MC

Why would it creep you out? Even though female-to-male surgery is far from perfect, I would have absolutely no problem dating a f-to-m transsexual. By the way, the male-to-female surgery is so perfected that people have been married for years to transsexuals without knowing it.

It's the bigotry here that's getting me: being "creeped out," saying "assuming anyone would get close enough," and such. Why such hostility to, or fear of, transsexuals? Again, do you think dating a transsexual would make you gay somehow?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[Strainger]

Flora, I don't worry about appearing gay because I don't really care what other people think. I do care what I think. I really wouldn't want to kiss a transsexual because then I would think, "These lips used to be guy lips, with whiskers growing around them and everything! Eeewww!!" I wouldn't want to have sex with a transsexual because I'd be thinking, "There used to be a penis down there where mine is, except it was pointing in the opposite direction and attached! Eeewww!" Call me whatever names you want to, but I can't help the way I feel. If you want to discuss this further, you should open up a new thread, perhaps in Great Debates although MPSIMS would probably be a valid forum as well.

Since I'm posting again, I'll add to what I said previously:

- No fake boobs, nose jobs, facelifts etc. (I'm refering to cosmetic, not corrective surgery). Be happy with what nature gave you. I hate how nit-picky people have become about appearance lately.
- In that vein, don't load your face up with make-up. Light make-up is fine for the symphony; no make-up is fine for camping.

[sunbear]

Addressing the more boring male female relationships, I have some tips for females. If the guy has some potential, he might not be ready for anything long term. Find out if he still goes to James Bond movies. If he does, he needs more training. Throw out his Playboys or other magazines. If it's no big deal, he's OK. If he's emotionally attached to Miss July, he needs more work.
I didn't ever find that women had these sort of problems, but they may be cursed by some "have to get married" mission. It happens, though I'm surprised that it does. No, I did not have that problem with the wife.

[DougC]

- - - Flora: I'm not sure how to explain this well. It's not that transexuals (and for that matter, hermaphrodites) are inherently repulsive. I guess the best explanation is that it isn't something I think I would want to be surprised with. The concept of gender is rather concrete to me, since I have never had the experience of being on both sides of it. The idea of being of "indetirminate" gender, or of desiring to change gender seems odd in a very primal way. - MC

How tragic--after all they've gone through to finally lead a happy, normal life, they'll always be alone because no one can love them? It's like the (pre-Disney) Little Mermaid, who had to give up her voice to get legs, and still couldn't find love . . .

[DougC]

- - - It's not something I have had to deal with so I haven't given it much thought. Should I be ashamed of myself for being honest, or for not holding the same opinions as you? -MC

[MrKnowItAll]

As for the Flora/MC arguement going on, it probably belongs in GD. However, I'll put in my $.02.

Flora, we're not talking about job discrimination or right-to-vote here. A romantic/sexual relationship is a very personal thing and I for one have to side with MC on this. If it "creeps him out," so be it. Feelings are not rational things, and no amount of logic can change the way he feels. If the idea of being with a p.op. transexual bothers him, then it's probably a good idea that he should not get involved with one. There are plenty of men who would not be bothered by it, and the number of POTs is pretty small. Let it go.

I know one can't help one's feelings--I would not be attracted to an overweight man, that doesn't make fat guys evil or lesser human beings. But what about it, ARE there any men out there who wouldn't have a problem dating a transsexual? How about women, dating a transsexual guy?

[Strainger]

Flora, I'm going to start another thread dedicated to your question to keep from straying in this one. I'll put it in MPSIMS for now although it might get moved to Great Debates.