Would you date a transsexual?

[Strainger]

From http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000798.html , Flora:ARE there any men out there who wouldn't have a problem dating a transsexual? How about women, dating a transsexual guy?My response is contained within the thread that I linked. To summarize: "Eeeewwww!!" A couple of other responses may be found in that thread as well.

[sunbear]

As long as she wasn't Wendy Carlos. And paid for the dinner. And we were the last 2 people on earth.

[AHunter3]

I wouldn't date one but I'd enjoy having a transsexual for companionship and discussion! Michelle, wherever you are, I liked you a lot and I wish you well.



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Designated Optional Signature at Bottom of Post

[cmkeller]

No (if I were single), simply because I only date with marriage and children in mind and that would be impossible with a transsexual.

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Chaim Mattis Keller
ckeller@schicktech.com

"Sherlock Holmes once said that once you have eliminated the
impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be
the answer. I, however, do not like to eliminate the impossible.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity to it that the merely improbable lacks."
-- Douglas Adams's Dirk Gently, Holistic Detective

[barton]

After some thought, I would have to say yes. My opinions on sex and gender have changed to ultra-liberal so much in the past four years or so that I sometimes surprise myself.

If the woman I'm seeing used to be a man, what's the big deal, really, if I liked her enough, enjoyed being with her. Sex might be awkward, but hell, sex tends to be awkward anyways.

I've always found it sort of funny when someone's SO or spouse springs a surprise on them (used to be a guy, crossdresses, wants a threesome, into pain, use your imagination) and the surprised person heads for the hills immediately. So much for loving folks for themselves and working through problems. Sex isn't everything.

[barton]

I had another thought on this, in regards to cmkeller's post - how are marriage and children a problem if they're legally the other sex and there are plenty of children out there begging to be adopted?

That attached to your genes, eh? Personally, I wouldn't want to give my kids my poor eyes or my temper. And I can always just teach them my cynicism.

[Eutychus]

I'm in the middle of discovering a surprising amount of bisexuality about myself, so I don't think the idea would repulse me as much nowadays as it might have earlier in my life.



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Saint Eutychus
www.disneyshorts.org (http://www.disneyshorts.org)

[Rich Barr]

I'm not bisexual, but I tend to suspect that's more an irrational attitude on my part than anything else. Love is supposed to be about what's inside a person, not what's on the outside.

So, with that in mind, I'd at least be willing to consider dating a woman who used to be a man. Whether I'd be able to handle it when push came to shove (as it were) I don't know.

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Rich Barr
massivemaple@hotmail.com
AOL Instant Messenger: Hrttannl

Interesting, thoughtful replies! Strainger and Subear, you're to be commended on your candidness, if nothing else. But think of this: the person you're now sleeping with used to be an embryo (ewww! You're sleeping with an embryo!) and one day will be a decaying corpse (ewww! You're sleeping with a corpse!). Me, I prefer to live by the old song, "I don't care what you used to be; I know what you are today."

[Drain Bead]

I have a somewhat different approach to this whole thing. Even IF I was somehow able to get over the whole physical fact (which is somewhat more difficult for me considering I'm female, and it's a bit more difficult to make realistic-looking F-M transsexuals, I'd imagine), I don't think I could deal with the lifetime of emotional baggage that such a person would be carrying around.

[cmkeller]

barton:

I had another thought on this, in regards to cmkeller's post - how are marriage and children a problem if they're legally the other sex and there are plenty of children out there begging to be adopted?
That attached to your genes, eh?

Yes, I'm attached to my genes. I'm pretty happy with them. I'm also attached to my wife's; I like her a lot as well. Furthermore, I'm a religious Jew and I consider having children of my own to be a religious obligation.

Chaim Mattis Keller

[Rich Barr]

Drain Bead: [[I don't think I could deal with the lifetime of emotional baggage that such a person would be carrying around.]]

My observation has been that EVERYBODY carries a lot of emotional baggage around, at least those over the age of about 12. I don't know that a transsexual's would be any worse than some of the allegedly "normal" people's that I've come across. (I'll confess that I've never known a transsexual, though, so I can't say for sure.)

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Rich Barr
massivemaple@hotmail.com
AOL Instant Messenger: Hrttannl

[Drain Bead]

Everyone has emotional baggage, yes. I'd imagine, though, that the amount of emotional baggage that "normal" people have pales in comparison to the amount of emotional baggage carried around by people who have been stuck in the wrong body for their entire lives.

[Strainger]

Flora, embryos and death are natural things. The transsexual thing is very unnatural to me. Drain, I completely agree with you. I was going to use cmkeller's argument as well, but I realized that I would be more open to adoption with a non-transsexual girl who just couldn't have kids than I would be with a transsexual.

Sometimes I think I'm just a man in a man's body. Then I think, "Well, good for me!"

[Doctor Jackson]

I would not date a transsexual, but I also would not date a smoker, a Christian Scientist, an extreme liberal, ora drug user, just to name a few. There are many reasons why I would not, but it all boils down to one - tain't my cup'o tea.

Barton, your last post could be considered quite presumptuous. I fail to see how the opinions of 9 posters (almost half of which were either agreeable or neutral to your position) constitute the stance of society as a whole. I also don't see this as an issue on which "society" needs form an opinion in order to carry on in a semi-civilized manner. Some things are simply personal preference, and not all members of society will share your preferences.

That said, I [/i]would[i] like to be reincarnated as a lesbian, so I could chase women and play golf from the red tees :)

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The overwhelming majority of people have more than the average (mean) number of legs. -- E. Grebenik

[Rich Barr]

Barton: [[I guess society has some ways to go yet.]]

No doubt. In Michigan the individual who killed the gay guy (I'm too lazy to look the names up) for having a crush on him was just convicted again--a case that I think amounts to an "eww ick" reaction taken to extemes.

Then again, transsexuals are by no means the only ones who get written off immediately. Would you date a seriously overweight member of the opposite sex? How about one who was incontinent? How about one who had a serious skin condition? Or would your reaction be "eww ick?"

The point, I suppose, is that most people do not value others for who they are--people are valued for what they look like or how well they fit the preconception of what is desirable. Am I accusing the majority of shallowness? Yeah, I suppose Iam. Do I think that's likely to change? No, I don't. It's tempting to blame television and movies for this state of affairs--these media are essentially a celebration of cookie-cutter peopledom--but I won't. TV and movies just magnify the world. Thus the fact you don't generally see "ugly" heros and heroines in entertainment simply reflects facts such as--this has been studied and documented--that criminal defendents who are "attractive" fare better in sentencing than those who are not.

(I think the main explanation for racial prejudice is nothing more, and nothing less, than that "they" don't look like "us." Does anybody remember the Dr Seuss story about the Sneeches? (I may have that spelled wrong--it's been awhile.))

It may seem I've gotten well off the subject, but I don't think I have. I think it's all related, like it or not.

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Rich Barr
massivemaple@hotmail.com
AOL Instant Messenger: Hrttannl

[barton]

It's interesting how the objections all boil down to:

1. Eww.
2. Ick.

I guess society has some ways to go yet.

[DougC]

- - - Maybe we should start with the "last two people on Earth" scenario and work backards from there. - MC
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- "All are equal, but some are more equal than others." - Alice In Wonderland

[DougC]

- - - "backWards" - Damn Typos - MC

[Jophiel]

The point, I suppose, is that most people do not value others for who they are--people are valued for what they look like or how well they fit the preconception of what is desirable.
Hmmm... should I apologise for the fact that if I'm going to date and/or marry someone, I want that someone to be sexually attractive to me? While your point may hold water in things like not getting a job because your obese or getting ignored at the store because you have some skin condition, I really don't think anyone needs to feel guilty about who they do and don't find attractive when looking for a life partner. If all I wanted was "inner qualities", I could just as well hang out with my male friends. However, that isn't going to make the grade when looking for that special female to grow old with.

That said -- Transsexual? Umm... "eew" and "ick" summed it up fairly well. When sharing childhoos stories with my special lady, I want to hear about her Easter Sunday dress and dressing the cat like a baby, not about how she wrote her name in the snow.

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"I guess it is possible for one person to make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn't."

[Rich Barr]

Jophiel: [[[S]hould I apologise for the fact that if I'm going to date and/or marry someone, I want that someone to be sexually attractive to me? [...] I really don't think anyone needs to feel guilty about who they do and don't find attractive when looking for a life partner. If all I wanted was "inner qualities", I could just as well hang out with my male friends.]]

Ok. Now, say you find your life partner, and a few years down the road she's in an accident or develops an illness that disfigures her. Are you gonna give her the heave-ho, since she's no longer attractive to you and "inner qualities" don't cut it? (Answer "yes" and you will be adjudged a creep, though an honest one. Answer "no" and the question becomes how you distinguish the two situations--why she would be acceptable now, though "ugly," as opposed to before, when you would have written her off as not your cup of tea.)

I don't mean to be hard on you in particular, Jophiel--I'm sure you represent the large majority of opinion. I'll even confess to having been in the position where a woman I didn't find attractive was attracted to me--I didn't cooperate. (I was busy chasing another woman...who didn't find ME attractive. (The J. Geils band strikes up "Love Stinks.") But I am NOT proud of that reaction. I'm 35 years old now, and I like to think I've grown out of it.

[[While your point may hold water in things like not getting a job because your obese or getting ignored at the store because you have some skin condition...]

Ah, but once we declare someone "not good enough" in one area, it's that much easier to extend it to other areas. Not pretty enough to date...not pretty enough to be friends with...not pretty enough to employ (the customers want to see attractive clerks, after all).

All this applies to transsexuals, too.... (The only reason for this sentence is so I can pretend I'm being relevant to the topic.)

Perhaps the lesson is that love, so called, is very rare, if indeed it exists at all. Maybe it's all just lust, and we talk ourselves into the proposition that it means something more.

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Rich Barr
massivemaple@hotmail.com
AOL Instant Messenger: Hrttannl

Also, what if you meet, date and fall in love with someone, who then tells you he (or she) is a transsexual? They are still the same attractive, funny, wonderful soul-mate they were a minute ago, but suddenly your reaction--to the very same person!--is "ewww, ick?"

Howcum?

[Strainger]

Jophiel, I really enjoyed your post. Flora, yeah, I'd have to bail if I found out later that she was transsexual. Then again, I'd have to bail if I found out later that she smoked, did drugs, etc. There are some standards that I won't compromise when looking for a lifelong mate. And yes, when I'm dating someone, it's in anticipation of an even bigger commitment in the future. If there's no chance of the marriage thing happening, then the dating is over as well.

[barton]

Rich makes a good point.

I'll confess to being picky myself. I've met women that I've liked instantly, and then they have to go and light up a cigarette. (Eww, ick)

Now, yes, this is a hard point for me to get around - but it's not necessarily the end of the road.

Save her being some form of evil bitch, I believe I can overcome and forgive pretty much any minor quirks like smoking and former maleness. With time, I might even find them endearing, as I do some of my friends' various vices.

[Rich Barr]

Strainger: [[Flora, yeah, I'd have to bail if I found out later that she wastranssexual. Then again, I'd have to bail if I found out later that she smoked, did drugs, etc.]]

I think there's a difference here. Smoking and drug use are voluntary activities. Yeah, they're addicting, but they are nonetheless voluntary--the doer can kick them. Being a transsexual, on the other hand, is not voluntary. As I understand it, it's not simply a matter of sexual orientation--it's actually being the opposite gender by inclination.

I also assume this means that transsexuals are transsexuals whether they have physical procedures performed on themselves or not. This begs the question: would you be interested in a woman who was absolutely perfect in other respects...but who considered herself a gay male? (Or vice-versa, for the women here?)

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Rich Barr
massivemaple@hotmail.com
AOL Instant Messenger: Hrttannl

[Jophiel]

I've been gone a few days (was moving) so I don't get to reply until now. I'm going to have to stand on my previous statement that if someone isn't attractive to me, I'm not going to be real interested in dating them. Them's the breaks. What is my once attractive mate was disfigured? Well, to be honest, I don't know. I would like to think I'd stick it out and we'd be in love enough for it to not matter, but until it happens, I can't pretend that it's 100% certain that I'd stick it out.
As for it extending to other areas of my life -- maybe, though I try not to let it. Can I say I've never approached an attractive person before one not as much so? No. I'm not proud to say it, but it's happened. But I try not to do so. But I still have to put relationships in their own special place. I'm not planning on potentially having sex with my friends, co-workers, and whoever else. I am potentially having sex with whoever I'm dating. And I want that person to be someone I want to see naked.

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"I guess it is possible for one person to make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn't."