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View Full Version : What was the book ending to Hannibal?


Mahaloth
06-24-2002, 06:39 PM
I just saw the movie the other day and have heard a lot about the different ending from the book. What exactly was the ending?

Go head, tell me in as much detail as you like. I'll never read it.

FallenAngel
06-24-2002, 06:57 PM
SPOILER:











Hannibal drugs, hypnotizes, conditions and corrupts Clarice, ultimately to the point that she's completely won over.

She joins him in eating the FBI guys brain; they flee together and she becomes his willing and devoted sidekick. Barney spots them at the opera in one Euro city (he's touring the world looking at all the Vermeers) and bugs the hell out of Dodge before he gets recognized.

They end up on the lam indulging in good taste and quietly vicious violence, etc.

It was a huge leap of faith to buy it, but not as much as the horrid movie ending. My $0.02

WSLer
06-24-2002, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by FallenAngel
SPOILER:











Hannibal drugs, hypnotizes, conditions and corrupts Clarice, ultimately to the point that she's completely won over.

they flee together and she becomes his willing and devoted sidekick. Barney spots them at the opera in one Euro city (he's touring the world looking at all the Vermeers) and bugs the hell out of Dodge before he gets recognized.

They end up on the lam indulging in good taste and quietly vicious violence, etc.



She wasn't his sidekick, she was his companion/lover. Barney spotted them at the opera in Brazil, in Rio to be specific.

Where does it say that they indulged in "quietly vicious violence?" They indulged in quite a lot of sex, but there is nothing in the last few pages that even suggests that they perfromed violent acts, with the exception of what happened to Krendler, and that is more poetic justic then anything else.

Freudian Slit
06-24-2002, 07:43 PM
I bought it. :)

And personally I thought she was pretty willing. He exercised his control, but I think she was intelligent enough to know what she was doing. I think she just wanted to go with him. I can't say I blame her...

Silentgoldfish
06-24-2002, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by Zoggie
I bought it. :)

And personally I thought she was pretty willing. He exercised his control, but I think she was intelligent enough to know what she was doing. I think she just wanted to go with him. I can't say I blame her...

You'd think just by virtue of not being a crusty old man with a propensity for human flesh I'd get this kind of adulation, but nooooooo....

robertliguori
06-24-2002, 09:38 PM
While we're on the subject, what was the movie ending?

WSLer
06-24-2002, 10:27 PM
Starlin rescued Lector, but got shot with a dart and then Lector rescued her, and took her to his safe-house. Lector then tricked Krendler into coming over and served Clarice his brains. But the police were coming, as Clarice had called them and Lector ended up having to choose between killing Clarice and cutting off his hand. He chose to lose the hand and escaped via boat. The last scene showed Lector on an airplane.

carnivorousplant
06-24-2002, 10:37 PM
Now that I have you all here...
Two things I continuously mention about the movie and book:

In SOTL Lecter opens his handcuffs with part of a ball point pen in a few seconds.

Harris has based this series of novels on real stuff, notably the FBI profiling technique. The guy who developed profiling has also developed an interest in miscreants who "turn" women to their nefarious ends; they cause wives or lovers to help them in their criminal activity. I wonder of this isn't a phenomenon that Harris studied and used in Hannibal.

Oh yeah, Krendler deserved all he got.

Geek Mecha
06-24-2002, 10:58 PM
Starling did willingly become Lecter's companion. Her career in the FBI was in the toilet, and she was unfulfilled because of it. Given his wealth, intelligence, and lifestyle, life with Lecter was stimulating, challenging, and exciting. Which is what I think she really wanted all along.

I agree that there was nothing in the book to make you conclude they committed acts of violence after that. They dressed well, saw fascinating things about which they discussed in foreign languages, and no doubt dined at fine restaurants; what they did other than that is entirely up to the reader to fill in.

I had issues with pretty much every other part of Hannibal, book and movie, but the book ending is one thing I didn't dislike.

Speaking of which, have you guys heard anything about the upcoming Red Dragon, an apparent remake of Manhunter? It's coming out this fall. The cast looks decent.

Red Dragon (2002)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0289765

Silentgoldfish
06-25-2002, 12:50 AM
The full trailer's out at Apple's website (http://www.apple.com.au/quicktime/trailers)

Looks decent.

tavalla
06-25-2002, 06:37 AM
I had a look at the trailer, and most of it looks pretty okay. I can't quite buy Edward Norton as Will Graham. I always had a visual of Graham as being older and a little less pretty-boy. You know, a little more jaded.

Silentgoldfish
06-25-2002, 06:45 AM
If you get a chance see Manhunter; other than the cheesy 80's soundtrack it's pretty good. The Graham in it is (IMO) spot on, too.

tavalla
06-25-2002, 07:20 AM
Yep. Took me ages to track that down on VCR, but when I finally did, I enjoyed it.

Judith Prietht
06-25-2002, 10:33 AM
I thought the Hannibal movie ending seriously compounded the grossness factor the entire film wallowed in. Lecter serving Krendler's brains to the little boy on the plane was just totally out of line. Silence of the Lambs was never that nasty, which is part of the reason I found Silence to be a better movie (it was subtle, slow, and gave my imagination more free rein, instead of laying everything out for me). I preferred the book ending, because it wasn't set up for a sequel like the movie. I thought it a fitting ending for the metaphorical Starling-Lecter romance. And I think it was Krendler's house they went to, not a safe house.

Mahaloth
06-25-2002, 10:49 AM
I thought it was Krendler's summer home.

Did you know they used a robot of Ray Liotta to do some of the brain stuff? He even says he's not sure which part is him and which is the robot.

I thought the ending was amazing, the last 20 minutes or so was great.

Revtim
06-25-2002, 11:16 AM
I had a big problem with the movie ending. I just really cannot buy that Hannibal would have cut off his own hand. And he didn't have to kill Clarice, he could have just chopped her hand off instead of his own.

carnivorousplant
06-25-2002, 11:51 AM
I have a big problem with Thomas Harris agreeing to that ending. It kills another movie since it diverges so much from the novel.

WSLer
06-26-2002, 08:39 PM
Brondicon,

what "unreleased" version of Hannibal did you see??!! If I recall correctly the scene with Lector "serving Krendlers brains to the little boy on the plane" NEVER HAPPENED. It couldn;t have happened since Krendler was still alive at that point and Lector wasn't even back in the US. Lector had had a very elegant and entirely human-free meal prepared for him to take on the plane.

Retvim,

You obviously missed the entire point of the movie, which is that Lector is in love with Starling and he would rather hurt himself then hurt her. He could have easily left her to be eaten by the wild pigs and escaped but he didn't because he A) Has a grand if twisted conscience and sense of manners. and B) He was in love with her.

Carnivorousplant,

Harris had no input on any of the movies besides signing off the rights and collecting dump trcuks full of cash. He has stated numerous times that he has never seen any of the movies because they would influence how the characters were written and he thinks this would be grossly unfair both to him and to the reader.

And I agree with him.

carnivorousplant
06-26-2002, 08:49 PM
I though he had collaborated on the ending of the movie.
Hunh.

BTW we have a statue of that pig at the zoo here. There is a box to place money in for a children's charity.
:)

carnivorousplant
06-26-2002, 08:57 PM
...So no one knows if he would like Brain Cox or Anthony Hopkins.

Billy Rubin
06-26-2002, 09:20 PM
Wsler, I have it on DVD and I've just gone through the scene of Lecter feeding "something" (we are given to assume it was Krendler's brain) to a small child on the plane. It is at the very end of the movie, as he is leaving the US.

And as Carnivorousplant correctly states, Harris helped with the ending, two of which were shot, and you can view the other one on the DVD.

I'm right there with you, Carnivorousplant, Dr. L was in a roomful of knives etc, he should have been able to find something to pick the handcuffs with.

b.

JohnM
06-26-2002, 09:38 PM
WSLer, to back up the observation that it looked like Krendler's brain, here are a couple quotes from an on-line version of the script (http://www.geocities.com/i_luv_richard_dawson/hanscript.html):
He steps away, past Krendler and the wheelchair, picks up a small Tupperware container from the counter and walks out, leaving her to try to free herself.LECTER
Which would you like to try?

The boy points to the plastic container.

LECTER
This?

The boy nods. Lecter thinks about it. Finally -

LECTER
I suppose it's all right. After all, as I'm sure your mother tells you - mine certainly did: It is important to always try new things.

As Lecter dips his fork into the appetizer and feeds it to his young, grateful, adventurous fellow traveler -

carnivorousplant
06-26-2002, 10:13 PM
From Harris' description of preparing brains, I wouldn't think that they would keep in Tupperware (TM).
By a similair arguement, I wouldn't think that Lecter would eat anything out of Tupperware(TM). Have you ever seen garlic butter travel well?
Perhaps he makes exceptions for special people.
:)

clayton_e
06-26-2002, 10:51 PM
The book was better. The movie with it's time restraint at the ending due to the soon to come arrival of the police really put a sense of despiration or hurry into it. The book ended much better.

Guinastasia
06-26-2002, 11:14 PM
I'm surprised Hannibal hasn't succombed to kuru by now!

carnivorousplant
06-26-2002, 11:48 PM
He is, after all, a physician.

Winston Bongo
06-27-2002, 03:36 AM
I can't believe you folks! You actually LIKED the ending to the book better? I thought it was absolutely awful. I can accept the fact that somebody might be lonely and broken enough to be attracted to Lecter's genius and succumb to his twisted world view. But I can't accept that CLARICE would ever do this. It flies in the face of everything we learned about her character in SOTL. Wanting revenge against Krendler is one thing, but joining up with a man who viciously murdered innocent people (remember all the cops he killed escaping in SOTL?) is just NOT something she would ever do.

I don't know what Harris was smoking when he wrote Hannibal, because it read as if it was taking place in an entirely different universe than SOTL. The incredible sense of realism & believability was lost, replaced by an over-the-top, garish self-parody. The ending just served to make an already bad book awful by utterly ruining one of the best female protagonists ever.

So there. :p

capacitor
06-27-2002, 05:37 AM
Both endings are bs to me. Hannibal should be dead, dead, dead.

QueenAl
06-27-2002, 06:06 AM
Winston Bongo, you're totally on the ball. I loved SotL mainly for the creation of such a strong female character in Clarice. But in Hannibal, she succumbs to the man she's been fighting all along and gives up all her principles. As ridiculous as it sounds to say in a work of fiction, it really hurt me to see such a heroine litararily* raped.

(That's literarily, not literally).

Tristan
06-27-2002, 06:26 AM
I don't know. I've read the the books, several times. I enjoy them.

The mind of Hannibal Lecter is fascinating. He's brilliant, and attractive, urbane and polite, and knows which wine goes with what.

He has come to view the majority of people as beneath his (as he should) and as part of his gourmet sense, mayhaps he knows something the rest of us don't...

He has a greatly refined sense of justice, and a level of knowledge that is just astounding.

Much of this also jibes with Starling. I see no reason why a woman wouldn't take up with him, especially if he loved her first. He helped her though some rather severe mental issues she had been supressing.

Hell, if I were gay, I'd want to shack up with him.

QueenAl
06-27-2002, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by Tristan
I see no reason why a woman wouldn't take up with him, especially if he loved her first.

For me, the whole 'mass murdererand torturer' thing would be a bit off-putting, but maybe I'm just picky...

Silentgoldfish
06-27-2002, 05:39 PM
My point exactly. Oh well, if it's what the women like... pass the fava beans, QueenAl.

carnivorousplant
06-27-2002, 05:45 PM
Lecter tells Clarice than when she hears the tone produced by the crossbow string she will awaken. (I don't have the book here, I can't give an exact quote.)
My idea is that should he tire of her, he will kill her with the crossbow and she will realize what has happened to her just before she dies.
Have you read the other books, Tristan? He is cool, but he is one evil mean murdering son of a bitch.

carnivorousplant
06-27-2002, 05:48 PM
Addendum. His wealth comes from patients that he got to will their stuff to him. Harris doesn't say if they died of natural causes or not. :)
Let us not forget that he tries to kill the protagonist of Red Dragon (Manhunter) Will Graham who is also cool.

Tristan
06-28-2002, 03:02 AM
Most of them, presumably, die of natural causes.

And as for being a torturing freak, well, he may be a freak, I suppose, but the only person he tortures is the freak he made feed his face to the dogs.

And, IMHO, the man deserved it. Too bad Hannibal didn't finish him off.

Note: As for kuru, well, I'm willing to bet not a lot of that found here in the States. And, Lecter, being a doctor, would know about the disease and could take proper steps to avoid it.

You only get sick from eating sick people. If you eat the healthy, you would not get sick. Physically sick, anyways.

carnivorousplant
06-28-2002, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by Tristan
the only person he tortures is the freak he made feed his face to the dogs.



Ah, lessee, there is the guy he shot with arrows in his garage like "the wound man" which is how Will Graham caught him (Red Dragon); there is the patient whose head he left in the car in a storage facility (SOL) and the Italian policeman (Hannibal); why did he shoot the guy through the head with the crossbow in Hannibal?
He communicated with the Tooth Fairy about how to kill Graham; that's all I can think of off the cuff. He's a monster, dude. A Bad Guy.

Tristan
06-28-2002, 08:38 AM
The Head, well, there is no evidence of torture, AFAIK. Having ones head removed does not necessarily mean it happened in a torturous way.

Honestly, it's been a while since I read Red Dragon, so I'll re-read tomorrow and get back to you on the "wound man" thing.

And he shot the guy through the head because he was a lout, and a looser. Also, I think that it may have been a bit of a challenge, the man being a hunter and all.

As for how to kill graham, well, he did put him behind bars, and thereby subject him to prison food for the durration.....


In all seriousness, I know that Hannibal is supposed to be a "bad guy", but I can identify with him in quite a few ways. His eating habits are a bit extreme, but wouldn't it be nice to be allowed to kill the oaf driving while talking on his cel phone, or the annoying guy in the theater who shouts at the screen the whole time?

I think there's a little bit of Lecter in all of us.l

carnivorousplant
06-28-2002, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by Tristan


but wouldn't it be nice to be allowed to kill the oaf driving while talking on his cel phone, or the annoying guy in the theater who shouts at the screen the whole time?

I think there's a little bit of Lecter in all of us.l

Well, yeah, but then you have SDMB posters, and some tasty, er, sorry, testy moderator will think we're serious and we will get banned or sock-puppeted or whatever they do, and what are fava beans, anyway? What kind of wine goes with moderator?

grendel72
06-28-2002, 08:54 AM
Am I the only one who doesn't think the Hannibal character is a "cool guy"?
Not so much so in the first two books, or maybe I just didn't notice it when I read them, but Hannibal is incredibly pretentious- and fascistic about it too. Harris, the author tries to make the victims unsympathetic, but it is clear that Hannibal considers their biggest crime being "proles".

QueenAl
06-28-2002, 08:55 AM
Tristan, I'm with you up to a point; Harris did give excuses for the way Lexcter behaves, and make it seem as though he was doing society a favour by getting rid of these sickos. In SotL, I Lecter was sympathetic to me until he the incident when he escaped from the cage. Not only did he kill the Guards in the most horrible of ways, but he left one alive and horribly disfigured. And the policeman in Italy hadn't done anything to 'deserve' being murdered.

grendel72
06-28-2002, 08:55 AM
Am I the only one who doesn't think the Hannibal character is a "cool guy"?
Not so much so in the first two books, or maybe I just didn't notice it when I read them, but Hannibal is incredibly pretentious- and fascistic about it too. Harris, the author tries to make the victims unsympathetic, but it is clear that Hannibal considers their biggest crime being "proles".
Hannibal should never have been the central character of the book, he is the most annoying combination of Niles Crane and Leatherface...

carnivorousplant
06-28-2002, 08:58 AM
Well, no, but there is apparently a little bit of many people in Lecter.

Red Dragon has that wonderfull scene with Lecter and Graham, forshadowing Starling, in Lecter's prison/hospital. Lecter makes the point that Harris beats into the ground in that novel, that the tortured Graham is so very like a serial killer that he is able to think like them and capture them. Remarking on aftershave "that might have been chosen by a child" a ploy to find out more about Graham, Lecter then says "How did you catch me, Will?"
"You had a disadvantage."
"And what was that?"
"You are insane."

So, Graham is dog mea...er, Lecter meat from that point on if not before. It is an insight to Lecter the bad guy, willing to harm the child and Lecter the fallible. But someone else has just posted...heck, probably a mod with that sock puppet thing. Maybe a saucy little chianti...

QueenAl
06-28-2002, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by Tristan
I think there's a little bit of Lecter in all of us.l

If Lecter had his way, it'd be the other way round...

QueenAl
06-28-2002, 09:03 AM
Bugger, should have hit preview. Carnivorousplant, we cross-joked!

Btw, it's ironic that one of those saying Lecter was a monster should be called Carnivorousplant.

Annie-Xmas
06-28-2002, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by grendel72
Am I the only one who doesn't think the Hannibal character is a "cool guy"?
Not so much so in the first two books, or maybe I just didn't notice it when I read them, but Hannibal is incredibly pretentious- and fascistic about it too. Harris, the author tries to make the victims unsympathetic, but it is clear that Hannibal considers their biggest crime being "proles".
Hannibal should never have been the central character of the book, he is the most annoying combination of Niles Crane and Leatherface...

I don't consider Hannibal a "cool guy." But the thought of David Hyde Pierce being cast as him is damn cool!

carnivorousplant
06-28-2002, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Annie-Xmas
David Hyde Pierce being cast as him is damn cool!

I'm a Brian Cox guy myself.

Who the hell is David Hyde Pierce?


http://us.imdb.com/Title?0289765

Judith Prietht
06-28-2002, 11:03 AM
David Hyde Pierce would have been better suited to play Jeffrey Dahmer.

carnivorousplant
06-28-2002, 11:16 AM
http://us.imdb.com/Name?Hyde+Pierce,+David

The Tattler reporter, maybe. :)

carnivorousplant
06-28-2002, 02:40 PM
Tristan: I forgot about his biting out the eye and tongue of the nurse.
Do any of you ladies really want to neck with this guy?