There is nothing worse than having a gut and a raised consciousness at the same time

[matt_mcl]

Warning: Coarse language and much whining ahead, but I didn't want a Pit response so I'm putting it here.

Second warning: long. There's no way I can write everything I feel about this with the immediacy that this demands. Please bear with me.

Once again I find myself looking at my gut in disgust. For those of you who don't know me, I'm a 20 year old gayboy, tall, weight proportional to height, with a decent face (if I do say so myself) now that the zits are clearing up, actually quite bishie-like in many respects. I don't smoke or drink, and I take public transit or walk to all my appointments.

But I also have a gut. And man-boobs. GODDAMMIT.

And all of this wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have a raised consciousness to go with it. I like the rest of my body and I love my mind and I know that there's more to my being than my physical appearance and I like being judged on my merits as a person and I appreciate who I'm becoming, but there's still those inches.

Now if I didn't have a raised consciousness, I'd have read the damn magazines a long time ago, done the crunches, jogged, gotten a gym membership, whatever. But whenever I lie down to do crunches, I get so angry with myself for getting coopted by the Appearance Mafia. And then I get angry with myself for making excuses. And then I get angry with myself for being so weak as to care about my appearence, and then I get angry with myself for not having any willpower and making sophisticated rationalizations, and it all boils down to being ANGRY AND HATING MYSELF.

I'm so paranoid that if I did anything about my gut, I'll end up puking up my meals or in an asylum or anorexic or having plastic surgery or something. And I simply know that it's not going to go away by itself.

I can't love the motherfucker. It's UGLY. Okay, I know there are people who like it, but I DON'T. Sure, sometimes I like guys with one, but NOT MYSELF. And it isn't because of what other people think - I already FUCK enough that I know that other people don't give a toss. I try to accept myself for my natural shape and I DO. ALL THE REST OF IT.

I just want to wear a goddamn HALTER TOP for once in my life. I want to wear a goddann T-SHIRT for once in my life without it looking like the FUCKING PLANETARIUM. I want to TAKE OFF MY SHIRT WHILE DANCING without everyone else on the room being on Ecstacy first. I just want to ENJOY MYSELF. Is that such a sin?! Is that so self-hating and retrograde?!

GODDAMMIT! It's a stupid GUT, for chrissakes. Why am I giving myself complexes about it? But the problem is, I can't just put up with it and be done with it, because it's UGLY, and I can't just get rid of it and be done with it, because that's WRONG.

I was reading a magazine (that I got for free - no, I haven't literally bought any of this - that's a little much by all accounts), and it had suggestions about how to get rid of your gut. And in a moment of despair, I read them, and believed them, and tried doing some crunches (again), and then I got so fucking pissed off at the way the article was written ("just six months until bathing suit season, girlfriends! Quit making excuses and go to the gym - no pain, no gain!") that I threw the motherfucker in the trash and ran out to the net café, whence this.

Jesus fucking Christ! Isn't there anything in the middle? Is it too much to ask that I be able to just make myself look the way I want, and then stop, and not have it be self-loathing and retrograde and unfeminist and internalized-homophobia and bodyfascist and narcissistic and Cathy-cartoonish and all the rest of it?

Hostie de crisse de tabarnac de crisse de calice de putain de bordel de viarge, jme chie sur tout les tetes de marde qui me crissent tout cette crisse de ciboire de marde, hostie de TABARNAC!

Hmmm... I wonder if sacre is aerobic?

[scott evil]

matt, sweetie...

What you said.

No, really.

I empathize. I'm not fat by any means, but I'm self-conscious, and it's like pulling teeth to get me into the pool to swim with my nieces and nephew.

And yes, I get enough sex to know that it's not an impediment. But still...

I know how you feel.

P.S. Check your email - I sent some TorontoDope pics. :)

- s.e.

[Tranquilis]

So get fit not because it's 'expected', but because you'll live longer, have more engergy, and feel better. You don't have to be ripped, just healthy. And if it just so happens that getting healthy makes you like yourself better when you look in the mirror, well, that just a bonus, right?

Change the label, change the emotion, and get on with it.

[scott evil]

Originally posted by Tranquilis
So get fit not because it's 'expected', but because you'll live longer, have more engergy, and feel better. You don't have to be ripped, just healthy. And if it just so happens that getting healthy makes you like yourself better when you look in the mirror, well, that just a bonus, right?

Change the label, change the emotion, and get on with it.

Umm... matt is hardly unhealthy. That's not the point of the OP. It's about this body image thing within the gay community - a myth we're supposed to buy into, and many a gym queen already has. The quest to be buff can be just as obsessive as anorexia or bulimia or overeating.

If anyone's unhealthy, it's me, at least in terms of not taking good care of myself.

[Tranquilis]

Dammit, gerbils ate my post.

OK, lets try this again:

OK, Matt, so you don't like the way you look? Do what you want to change it, even if it *is* living up to what you consider an arbitrary standard. You're choosing, with deliberation, to meet a standard of appearance that pleases you. So what if it's a common societal standard, one that's reenforced by media? If it pleases you, and does no harm, what difference does it make?

[Helen's Eidolon]

Oh my god. I could have written that post.

I also spent a lot of time, my entire life, ignoring that I didn't like my body (heck, still don't).

Once I finally decided to give up the "love myself for who I am thing" and lose some weight, there were a lot of changes.

I've lost 10 pounds.

BUT
I don't feel any prettier. I think I'll never be thin enough for myself.
I've made myself miserable with guilt for eating like I like.
I've accepted the fact that I hae my body, and that cosnciousness has really grown. I think that in trying to lose weight, I've made my body even more of a mental target for myself.

I really might have made the wrong decision.

We'll see.

[ultrafilter]

Bottom line is, you gotta do what *you* want. If this happens to coincide with what The Beautiful People deem as acceptable, then so be it. Right now it sounds like you're not working out just to go against what's popular, and that's (to my mind) identical with doing what's popular. If you have a raised consciousness, then use it.

Or what Tuckerfan said. Same thing, he said it better.

[Zyada]

Poor Matt. I don't think anyone sees themselves in the mirror the way they really are. Nor do I think it's necessarily the media - you want to look in the mirror and like what you see. When your body doesn't please your aesthetic sensibilities it can be really frustrating. But what you see may be as much a function of your self-esteem as it is your actual physique. I know that about 30 pounds ago I thought I was still unpleasantly overweight, but when I look back at pics from that time I seem downright shapely. Get Hamish to point out someone who is built similarly to you, that may help you get a more unbiased self-image.

I agree with Tranquilis - exercise because of the health benefits; strengthening your abdomen will help prevent back problems. And add a bit more cardio in there! You should break a sweat once or twice a week at least, to keep your heart in good shape.

[iampunha]

Wouldn't exercising give you more stamina for sex?:)

Incentive-laden? Well, DUH!

[DeadlyAccurate]

While I know nothing about the gay community, I do know that the mythological body image is hardly confined to it. I don't come anywhere near conforming to societal standards for a beautiful body on a woman, but the benefits of exercising far outway my frustration at not looking like a supermodel.

Men think they have it tough, but when society thinks a beautiful woman is 5'10" and 105 lbs. and you're 5'3" and 100+none of your business lbs. then it's frustrating to know it's an ideal that is impossible for you to reach. I don't exercise because I think I'll one day achieve the standards of ideal beauty but because I like being a hardbody and having the stamina to do things.

Just do your crunches because you want to; not because you're expected to. Trust me, there are men (and women) out there who think a six-pack ab is unattractive.

[Tranquilis]

Just for the sake of argument, let me link a site that has women whom are in excellent condition, but are not skinny little waifs. If fact, they all have a little extra padding, but could still excecise most of us straight into the ground... And they're pretty!

I'm talking about Belly (http://www.anwaralsahaara.com/index2.html) Dancers (http://come.to/crescentmoon/), of course.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by Tranquilis
If fact, they all have a little extra padding...


Interesting link. I belly dance so it's nice to see other groups, but, um, not to nit pick, but I don't think ANY of those women look like they have any extra padding. I certainly know some belly dancers who do, they just don't seem to be pictured in the sites you linked to. :)

To the OP, Matt, enlightened or not enlightened, there really is nothing wrong with trying to look your best. If it's your only focus, you've got problems, but I hardly imagine that if you start doing a few crunches, you're going to abandon all of your other interests. You're a pretty level headed kinda guy, right? :)

Al. (Who mostly works out because endorphins are gooooooooood.....)

[Tranquilis]

Either you missed it, or your definition of 'extra padding' differs from the social norm. ;)

[matt_mcl]

And then I hear a voice saying, "To feel healthier? Because it's good for you? Sure, that's what they all say." :( I wish I could believe it. Hell, I wish I knew it were true.

I still can't get over the fact that the concept that's supposed to keep me from hating myself because I look a certain way is making me hate myself for wanting to look another certain way. Jeez.

[tevya]

matt_mcl I think I have some small understanding of what you are talking about. I went through similar feelings about various issues (not just body related) when I went through a period of consciousness raising. What I have found is that you really have to struggle through this and define which boundaries work for you. You must try to untangle the web of personal / political / public / private / you and other in order to find out what it is that you truly want. I know the saying goes "The personal is political" but more than one person has made themselves miserable trying to follow that to the letter.

I know of a woman who was very staunchly feminist and was really into radical feminist theory that basically said any invasion of a woman's body was an act of violence (including any sort of sexual penetration). For many years she dated and lived with only women. She eventually came to the conclusion that she really did want to have sex with a man and that this did not mean she was compromising her beliefs. (I believe she now considers herself bi).

I suggest really examining what it is that makes you want to look a certain way. You are not going to be a hypocrite or suddenly become socially unaware if you find that this is something you want to do for you.

I hope that made some kind of sense...

[Tansu]

You know deep down you aren't buying into the body-image fascism thing, don't you?

I don't think there's anything wrong with doing a little work to get to be a slightly sleeker Matt. It's like gardening. You tend the garden, it looks good, you enjoy it.

(I made a longer response over at the UnaBoard, by the way)

[Francesca]

Matt, I think you're cool. Please take this in the helpful spirit it's intended. Have you considered that what you're calling "raised consciousness", this unwillingness to exercise as rebellion about body fascism, is really an excuse not to exercise. I mean, getting fit is hard work. Working out and eating healthily and losing weight can be a royal pain in the ass. Lord knows I've used enough mind tricks and justifications not to exercise.

I know your politics are extremely important to you, but perhaps the reasons your brain are giving you not to exercise are more than political, or they're also personal reasons disguised as political ones?

[matt_mcl]

Hm. I really want to get rid of it, and I'll do (within common sense) what it takes, but it's the political question that's stopping me, honestly, rather than serving as an excuse.

[jayjay]

What to say? What to say?

I'm knocking myself out to figure out how to put this in a way that expresses how I feel while still displaying the great respect I have for matt, and it's difficult.

If it were someone I didn't "know" from almost two years on-Board, I'd probably say something like "Oh, get over yourself, girlfriend. When you're over 400 pounds and trying to deal with the near-utter lack of desirability, sex, and just plain attention that that weight engenders in the gay community, then you can complain."

That was, even despite the Board-familiarity, my first reaction. But I don't want to belittle matt, or make his entirely legitimate feelings seem trivial. So I don't really know what to say, other than you have my moral support whatever tack you take here.

[Mullinator]

I just want to wear a goddamn HALTER TOP for once in my life

I'll take thoughts that have never crossed Mullinator's mind for $200, Alex.

[Guinastasia]

matt-I've seen your pictures, and you're a cutie, if I do say so myself.

Isn't there any kind of fun exercise? I should talk, I never exercise. But, I don't know, bike riding? Skating, dancing, swimming?

(Me, I'm scared of someday having a female-stache type thingy-because I have dark hair and pale skin. It freaks me out. Or moles. Yuck yuck yuck. My mom thinks I'm nuts).

[RTFirefly]

It's possible to overthink things, and to me, this sounds like one of those times. (I certainly did plenty of it in my early 20s.)

At times, you've got to say, "screw the politics - what do I want??" If you want to lose a few pounds and get into better shape, then just go for it. It really won't mean you're buying into the Gay AgendaTM.

[pldennison]

matt, if you don't do those crunches, then the terrorists have already won!

That probably didn't help either, did it? Seriously, I know where you're coming from, even though I'm straight and not subject to the body fascism that young gay men are. I have terrible, terrible body image problems. Part of it is due to my out-of-shapeness (I'm 5'9" and weigh arounbd 210 lbs, although most people would probably guess me at slightly lighter), but more importantly part of it is due to overwhelming hirsuteness.

I hate going to the pool, or the beach, or anywhere else where I might have to remove my shirt in public. At times, I've shaved my back and shoulders, and I know that I do it for my own comfort (so I don't perspire like a hog), but I also feel like I'm giving in to society's notions that men should have chests and backs as smooth as a baby's butt. So I stopped doing it, and as a result can't enjoy any of the water activities that I like.

I also worked out for a while, getting up at 5:00 am (!) every day to go to them gym, but because of my poor shape and my hairiness and my sweating, I turned paranoid and felt like everyone in the gym and locker room was mocking me. So I stopped going, even though it was good for me and I felt better when I was.

I guess I don't have any advice, but you aren't alone, among the gays or the straights.

[JonTheHasher]

matt, while I fully understand your dilemna, and support whatever course you take (and I REALLY don't want to dissuade you from getting to where you feel comfortable), I have to warn you that I don't know anyone who is really happy with his/her appearance.

What's going to happen is that you'll drop 20 lbs or whatever, and then start thinking that you really should beef up your chest. You'll do that, and then realize that your legs are looking a little too thin in proportion to your upper body. Maybe in the course of thickening up your quads, you'll see that you'd like your midsection better if you could define your six-pack. It doesn't stop. Getting to the shape that some of your gay-community "rivals" are in is about as realistic as the media-pushed female ideal is for most women. And I bet that they're not satisfied with their builds, either.

PLEASE do not get discouraged by this! Eventually you will come to a point where getting in better shape isn't worth the demands on your time and energy. Realizing that you're at that point, rather than doing whatever you have to in order to keep progressing toward the unattainable "ideal", is the real issue in rejecting our country's (and apparently the gay community's) body facisim.

Another tip: if you don't like crunches, don't do crunches. Find a physical activity you like, and do it. Try different stuff. I enjoy the hell out of weight lifting, but a lot of people find it extremely monotonous. Running bores me out of my skull, but some people get a rush off it. Team sports turn a lot of people's cranks. The most effective exercise is the one you're going to do.

Hope this helps.

[matt_mcl]

The most stupid part is that I don't even know if I AM doing situps right, and I can't check because every book, every website is written in that stupid, pious, evangelistic style I mentioned above, so I just get disgusted and stop. Right now I'm doing situps with my arms at my sides, my feet flat on the floor and my legs bent, is that correct?

[JonTheHasher]

Originally posted by matt_mcl
Right now I'm doing situps with my arms at my sides, my feet flat on the floor and my legs bent, is that correct?
Sure. As long as your legs are bent (straight-legged situps are hard on the back), it doesn't make much difference where your arms are. Further away from your butt (aka "fulcrum") makes it more difficult ("reduces advantageous leverage" :D).

Once it gets too easy having your arms at your side, fold them across your chest. Once that's too easy, lace your fingers behind your head, or straighten your arms above your head.

For some really good ab exercises, check out Awesome Abs (http://www.testosterone.net/articles/204abs.html).

[ultrafilter]

You'd probably be better off having your knees raised and putting your feet under something, so you're doing all the work with your abs.

HOWEVER

No matter how many situps you're doing, they won't do a damn thing for your gut. If you really want to burn fat, then you have a few options: Cut down on the number of calories you eat, and make sure that you're eating healthful foods (based on what I know about you, this probably won't be an issue).
Do aerobic exercise of some kind (running, jogging, walking, biking, swimming, etc.) for about a half-hour four days a week.
Do weightlifting so you increase your muscle mass. This will raise your metabolism and make it easier for you to burn calories.Ideally, you'd do all of the above, but these might be big lifestyle changes. Do what you can handle.

ALSO

If you're working out with your abs, you also need to work out your lower back. Otherwise your posture can get a little off, and it can cause you a lot of trouble. Look for low back exercises.

You should check out exrx (http://www.exrx.net), one of the best online sources for exercise information.

[JonTheHasher]

ultrafilter, that is a damn good site! Thanks!

[Freyr]

Dearest Matt_mcl...

You do not have a gut. I've had the pleasure to see you in person. For your weight, height and age, you're fine. I remember I looked pretty much as you do when I was about 20 or so. (lo those many years ago!)


Yeah, your abdominal muscles could use some tone. But guess what, 90% of the population could do the same. Go grab a book on enthographies of some hunter/gather people in Africa or the like. Take a look at their bodies. They have the same sort of gut you do.

If you want to work out and tone your body, do so because YOU want to, NOT because you feel you have to.

If you're looking for help with exercises, try talking to someone in the athletic dept at your local highschool or Uni. Or prehaps the local YMCA. Someone to give you some direction.

Good luck! *kiss*

[Flamsterette_X]

I've been wondering whether to respond to this thread for the last couple of days now. (ever since I saw it here, and on the UnaBoard) While I have not seen your pictures, or met you in person, I'm sure that if you feel you HAVE to lose weight to confgorm to some societal norm, you'll end up wondering why you ever tried doing it in the first place.

On the other hand, if you lose weight because you WANT to feel better about yourself (have more energy, strength, etc.), you'll most likely keep at it longer. Then again, I don't know what I'm talking about because I never exercise.

I know I'm not wording this very well, but best of luck in whatever you decide to do. Just make sure it's the best thing for you and your body. Based on what I know about you, you're already leading a healthy lifestyle, but if you want to be healthier, then go for it!

F_X

[Maeglin]

Straight male, 24, just got back from the gym.

I find the following statement particularly telling:

Jesus fucking Christ! Isn't there anything in the middle? Is it too much to ask that I be able to just make myself look the way I want, and then stop, and not have it be self-loathing and retrograde and unfeminist and internalized-homophobia and bodyfascist and narcissistic and Cathy-cartoonish and all the rest of it?

You are a very intelligent guy, matt, so it is hard to believe that you would allow yourself to be so straitjacketed, or dare I say dominated, by identity politics. Like you say, you have a "raised awareness." You know what young gay men to do themselves in obedience to body fascism; simply being aware of this illness can be enough to pull you back from the brink of it.

You do not have to justify your desire for a body you feel more comfortable with. To a greater or lesser extent, it is in your power to make changes. The fact that the media lauds and encourages this kind of behavior is coincidental. To reject the idea of hard work for improvement simply because it is conditioned by social mores is just as dogmatic as to follow said mores unquestioningly.

Train hard, but train for your own reasons. There feeling of a healthy body in tune with a healthy mind is incomparable. Likewise the sheer increase in energy and exuberance that regular cardiovascular exercise engenders is marvelous. You know you aren't going to do it because Cathy says so or because you want the body of some boy trying to emulate a smack addict. You are doing it for yourself, in order to feel strong and confident.

You know what you want. Its effects are 100% beneficial for you. Just have confidence in your ability to train in a natural, unselfconscious way and seize it.

MR

[jlzania]

Ya know, I understand the appeal of the body beautiful. Hell, I really like the little ego boast that I get when I know someone's checking me out. And, if I do say so myself, while I never ever ever looked like a super model, I did ok back in the dark ages. However, no matter how much I exercise and no matter how I modify my diet, I'm probably not considered sexually viable by popular American cultural standards anymore because I'm now officially frickin' middle-aged. And I refuse to spend every bloody waking minute worrying about what I look or trying rectifying the signs of aging. I'm 47, thank you very much, and it does show.

So how does this relate to matt_mcl and the gut that keeps following him around? Look, if you do indeed get some kind of exercise and you avoid crap food, maybe this is just how you're built. You can either learn to tolerate ze gut or you can spend an inordinate amount of time trying to exorcise it. I don't know if it's worth it to you and I have no advice as to how to shuck all the self-loathing that comes with not confirming to social expectations. However, after reading a number of your posts, I suspect that if anyone can dumb their stupid conditioning, you can. I don't dye my hair or go to any great lengths to look younger than I am because I just don't give a rat's arse about what anyone else thinks is sexually attractive. with, of course, the exception of Mrzania who thankfully thinks gray hair and wrinkles are hot

[iampunha]

Matt, should I be able to make it to Motrealdope, I will be glad to show you several correct ways to do sit-ups (yes, there is more than one, unless several personal trainers, physical therapists and bodybuilders are mistaken).

Oh, and pushups (which, for the strangest reasons [i.e. I dunno what they are], I'm better at). Oh yes. Maybe even with you ON me.

I guess y'all can take that sexually if you want to, though anyone who'd read enough of Matt's posts knows that wouldn't end up in sex...

[DeepPurple]

my two cents

I'm only attracted to overweight men. I know that there are men like that also. Check out newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.bears.moderated so yes, the whole matter is figuring out what you really want.
Do you really hate your gut or do you hate society telling you to hate it. Imagine someone telling you that they love it, can you respect that person? Can you believe them? I could go on & on, but I've found in my few years of sanity, if you try to lose weight for anyone else but yourself, if won't make you happy.
Best wishes on your trip to finding out what you want! It can be fun.

[OxyMoron]

Matt, do it, but for the right reasons: stake a claim on your body, and realize that owning it means you can have it be as you want it to be, within the reasonable limitations. And focus more on training than on dieting - dieting will, I think, make you crazy. But working out will make you strong.

Men do tend to be pretty visual, which (again) within reason isn't something to apologize for. What's problematic is when you realize that there's a serious gap between what you look like and what makes your dick hard. You can narrow it, though, and feel much better for it, provided you're not starting to turn to chemical assistance or letting the gym interfere in the rest of your life.

Even if you had the money, I would never recommend starting off at a gay gym like the Stone or somesuch. It's so easy to let a crowd like that intimidate a person. My first gym was a straight gym in Brooklyn, with a diverse crowd of all ages. Made me feel much better, and got me to the point where I could join (the late, not-much-lamented) American Fitness in Chelsea (aka American Fisting, American Princess, and Mary-can-you-lift-this?).

Moderation in all things, m'dear. Including (well, I'd say especially :p) "consciousness."

[Doubting Robert]

Originally posted by throatshot
Men think they have it tough, but when society thinks a beautiful woman is 5'10" and 105 lbs. and you're 5'3" and 100+none of your business lbs. then it's frustrating to know it's an ideal that is impossible for you to reach.

Speaking as a heterosexual man, I don't consider a woman with a body like a pipecleaner to be physically beautiful. 5'10" and 105 lbs. would be skeletal. Calista Flockhart and Lara Flynn Boyle do not have beautiful bodies.

matt_mcl, I second RTFirefly's post. In the words of James Thurber, "Let your mind alone!" Either exercise, if you want to, or don't, if you don't want to, and quit worrying about why you want to, or don't want to. You are not trying to solve some great moral dilemma.

[Abe Babe]

You make at least some effort to look nice when you go out, don't you? Showered, shaved, hair combed, wearing good clothes (not necessarily expensive). Does that mean you are a slave to fashion? No. It means that you simply want to look nice, in part because that makes you feel better about yourself.

Sure some people spend way too much money on the 'right' clothes and way too much time preening in front of a mirror. That doesn't mean that paying attention to one's appearance makes one shallow.

If you want to do exercises to reduce the spare tire because you think it will make you look better, and because you think you will feel better about yourself because of that, just do it (insert Nike swoosh here)