Outcast Dopers And What Do We Do About It?

[Tuckerfan]

Hamsters ate my OP!

Inspired by this (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126537) thread and this (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126817) one where yojimboguy describes the house of his late uncle Bud, and how his uncle must have been an incredible recluse. A couple of Dopers posted that they were probably going to end up like that. Count me in as a Doper who figures he's probably going to be one of those guys.

Yeah, I know what my future holds, and it sucks. (And no, I don't know how to change it, and so far everything I've tried up to this point has pretty much exploded in my face.)

[kambuckta]

So the hamsters are extremely hungry tonight, cos I posted a sympathetic-type response here (or it might'a been in the other parallel thread/universe) and it too has been 'et.

Dang.

[Neidhart]

Count me in as a Doper who figures he's probably going to be one of those guys.

me too.

[scout1222]

These kind of situations really make me sad.

My boyfriend's father has a house that's full of pack-rat-ish stuff. When we walked in, I was instantly filled with a sense of misery. I'm so afraid that it's just a physical manifestation of a serious mental issue.

It tugs at my heart, and I wish there was someone he could talk to about it.

I'm not saying that's your situation, because I don't know you from Adam. But maybe just coming on to a message board like this is helpful - it provides some measure of personal contact. So as long as we know you're here, when you stop posting maybe we ought to alert the authorities??? :)

[belladonna]

Now, Tuckerfan and Neidhart--are you guys saying you actually think you're going to end up holed up in a house, refusing to leave unless absolutely necessary, speaking to no one and stockpiling weapons and other assorted crap? Or are you just saying you don't think you'll end up married with families? [preachy voice]There's quite a difference between the two, you know, and the latter doesn't necessarily lead to the former.[/pv]

If you really do think you're going to end up a total nutcase (which packrat recluses generally are, IME), I'm curious as to what flavor of insanity you plan on exhibiting. Will you wear only white and cover your windows in tinfoil? Will you use a straw to manually vaccuum your carpet? Will you collect tons and tons of books and boxes and use them to play "forts" all day?
Inquiring minds want to know.
:p
bella

[Tuckerfan]

I'm a packrat, I have to admit. No weapons, at least not yet anyways. (Though I do have all kinds of books on making improvised munitions...)

[Batsinma Belfry]

I don't have many relatives left, and don't get along with the remaining ones. Plus they already think I'm weird. So, I'll probably be one of those old ladies with a houseful of cats. I don't have any cats now, but I have a few years to get my collection started.

[Skerri]

I'm already like that. Well, in a way. I am the packrat from hell. I had to squish everything from my two bedroom apartment into a single bedroom in my current location. Good thing we have 12 ft. ceilings, so I can pack stuff up to the rafters in the closet. And I'm also well on the way to being the old lady with all the cats, as my roomie and I have 5 cats.

And, at this point, I would rather sit at home and hang out in my room rather than go out. The only thing that keeps me from turning into a gun-hoarding maniac is the fact that I don't like guns. (Whew! One redeeming factor.)

[ShibbOleth]

:: Looks and notices that both Tuckerfan and hillbilly queen live in Gallatin, Tennessee ::

hmmm, could just be the water. What are we going to do about it?

Tuckerfan, meet hillbilly queen, hillbilly queen, meet Tuckerfan. You both seem like fairly nice folks from what I've seen of your posts. Maybe you two could sort of hang out together and keep each other from being recluses.

Two down, how many more to go?

[refusal]

I've been wondering. When I'm an old man, will it be (anti)socially acceptable for me to keep cats, because I like cats. Or would I have to have snakes, because cats are just for the mad old women?

What is your weird old person's pet of choice? (Of course by then we might have bioengineering, allowing for my colony of iguana-moths buzzing around the bare lightbulbs.)

Yeah, in case you haven't guessed, that old man will be me too.

[Eve]

I am fully planning to become a crazy old recluse, kind of a combination of Miss Havisham and Bette Davis in Hush . . . Hush. . . Sweet Charlotte. Can't you see me, leaning out the attic window, shouting, "GITT—OFF—MAH-PROPE'TY! DAMMMNNN YEWWWW!"

[Fretful Porpentine]

I've been wondering. When I'm an old man, will it be (anti)socially acceptable for me to keep cats, because I like cats. Or would I have to have snakes, because cats are just for the mad old women?
I like snakes. Maybe I could be a Crazy Cat Lady who happens to be keeping your snakes for you, and you can be a Crazy Snake Man who happens to be keeping my cats for me. Of course that would complicate the recluse bit, but we wouldn't have to actually meet or anything.

Sounds like an appropriately eccentric arrangement. I am looking forward to it.

[scout1222]

Woah, Shibb, that's kind of weird.

How big of a city is Gallatin, anyway? What are the odds???

[MONTY2]

I'm going to be the Wierd Aunt that nobody wants to visit because she smells like mothballs. I'm not really very pack ratish, but I have trouble trying to find something, other than work, worth leaving my apartment for. I don't really like being around hordes of strangers, I dont' really drink so there's no need for me to go to bars and I can't stand the night club crowd. Nope, my weekends consist of a good book, the T.V. and my apartment.

I have a large family and small group of friends that I see quite regularly. They come to my apartment or I go to their houses. I'm slowly eliminated the need for outside human contact. In fact, ever since I discovered Publix Direct (a grocery store chain that delivers groceries to your door) I have almost completely eliminated most of my "I have to go to the store" outings. If only Walmart had a similar service, then I really would never leave my house. :(

[ShibbOleth]

Gallatin, Tennessee (http://www.ohwy.com/tn/g/gallatin.htm):
Gallatin is located in Sumner County (of which it is the county seat) northeast of Nashville along US Highway 31E near Old Hickory Lake and Bledsoe Creek State Park. The population estimate for July 1, 1998 was 21,608, an increase of 2,814 since 1990.

Gallatin is part of the Nashville, Tennessee metro area.


Gallatin is also home of an intergalactic portal which can only be reached via anonymous late model sedans parked next door to Tuckerfan's trailer.

[Neidhart]

Thus saith belladonna:
Now, Tuckerfan and Neidhart--are you guys saying you actually think you're going to end up holed up in a house, refusing to leave unless absolutely necessary, speaking to no one and stockpiling weapons and other assorted crap? Or are you just saying you don't think you'll end up married with families? [preachy voice]There's quite a difference between the two, you know, and the latter doesn't necessarily lead to the former.[/pv]

Well, I don't plan on going crazy, but I do see myself in thirty years living in a one-room apartment in a bad neighborhood, without friends, with nobody who knows or cares I'm alive.

Oh, I plan to skip the part about the weapons too. :)

[Zappo]

Oh bullshit, Neidhart.

You'll leave when iampunha picks you up to go to Dave and Gingy's for beers. :)

[Lsura]

I could see myself like that, sort of. I don't deal well with people on a personal basis - which is funny, because I can do customer service with the best of them. But I'm quiet and reserved, and it's just tough to meet people.

I also have the packrat tendencies, though I fight them. The upcoming move is a good thing, because it made me open up and empty out the contents of boxes I hadn't touches since the move from Nashville to Mississippi (2 moves and almost 3 years ago).

But it's all good. And maybe grad school will help me break out of my "shell" so to speak. Of course, maybe I've been in it too long, and I'll just stay in it. Either way, I don't dislike my life. Most times I enjoy it.

[widdershins]

I worry along these lines a lot, but I've recently started trying to work at changing it. Getting out more, periodic purgings of stuff I let pile up (time for another one soon), trying to get back in contact with old friends, etc.

When you listen to the last part of 'Pencil-Thin Moustache" by Jimmy Buffett, and say, "That'll be me some day," with detached calm rather that trepidation - it's time to worry.

[Annie-Xmas]

I'm another one like that. I leave my house to go to work (where I'm usually alone at least 50% of the day), laundromat and grocery. I do stop in the 7-11 on my way to work for coffee. My only friends are cyber. I'm sort of an "invisible" person.

If I wasn't so huge into musical theatre, I'd never do anything. But I have to go to NYC at least every other week to see a show and buy CDS. I have about 500 cast recordings, and I'm always buying more. I hope I have some advance notice of my death, so I can give them to people who will appreciate them.

Fortunately, if I die unexpectedly, I live in a town where everyone knows your business. Someone will check when I didn't show up for work.

[OldBroad]

My ambition is to be an eccentric old lady. The "old" part is coming along quite nicely, but I can't seem to move from merely slightly weird. Maybe I'm just not old enough yet. Maybe being eccentric is more of an art form that I'm just not yet fully committed to mastering.

Frequent long distance moves have pretty much cured me of pack rat tendencies except for the family history stuff.

I, too, can see myself in a one-room apartment. Very sparsely furnished but with a good computer and all my genealogy stuff. I'll live on McDonald's, cheerios and microwave meals. I'll stay in except for trips for groceries; and research, and communicate mostly online. My kids will feel sorry for me and will fear that the same fate awaits them but will mostly leave me alone - partly out of fear of that fate.

I won't be able to afford meds, so my bipolar will lead me to wild fits of starting ambitious projects that will clutter my apartment but never be completed - alternating with bouts of complete dispair, one of which, will eventually lead to my demise and someone having to make sense of what the hell I are all these half-baked projects.

If I can eventually accomplish true eccentricity, I will have left a legacy of colorful stories to be passed down to succeeding generations - a kind of immortality, I guess. What more can one ask?

[masonite]

I always knew I would wind up alone. I only started becoming bitter about it when I realized I'd never be able to sit on my front porch with a shotgun across my lap, yelling "YOU KIDS! GET OFF MY PROPERTY! I KNOW YOUR PARENTS' NAMES!" because I will never own property. :(

I'll die in a residence hotel downtown, and they'll find my body when I fail to pay the weekly rent.

[Purd Werfect]

I had no idea that this was that common. I'm fairly certain that I'll end up alone as well. I usually don't see this as bad, as long as I can die prior to senility or other seriously debilitating afflictions. I don't want to end up in a position where others have to take care of me.

[WV_Woman]

I have a cousin (who I've never met) who hasn't left the house in about 35 years.

Then my uncle married a woman who is such a packrat that, when they go out to dinner, she takes home the styrofoam take-home trays, rinses them out and keeps them.

[Tuckerfan]

OKay, so we've got about 15 of us who're going to be Crazy Old FolksTM. What do we do about it? I don't want to be a COF! But damn it, I can't see any way out of it. Suggestions from the gallery?

[FisherQueen]

I have one sister, and although I love her dearly, we don't often talk or spend a lot of time together. I don't think we'll have one of those Family Disputes, but I don't see us spending a lot of time together, either.

I don't have a lot of friends, just acquaintances and SCA comrades.

The only reason I talk to people is my job.

I must be a real deviant, because I am only able to be attracted to a kind of person so very rare that I haven't met one in years. So I probably won't get married. (Oh, my perversion is that I like smart single men.)

When I retire, I'll probably be pretty lonely.

Sometimes I'm pretty lonely now.

[Tuckerfan]

Originally posted by FisherQueen
I have one sister, and although I love her dearly, we don't often talk or spend a lot of time together. I don't think we'll have one of those Family Disputes, but I don't see us spending a lot of time together, either.

I don't have a lot of friends, just acquaintances and SCA comrades.

The only reason I talk to people is my job.

I must be a real deviant, because I am only able to be attracted to a kind of person so very rare that I haven't met one in years. So I probably won't get married. (Oh, my perversion is that I like smart single men.)

When I retire, I'll probably be pretty lonely.

Sometimes I'm pretty lonely now. So Fisher how YOU doin'? ;) (Hey, I'm smart [mostly smart assed, I'll admit] and single! I'm also a loner! We could be alone together!)

[dwyr]

I already have three cats.

Clearly I am doomed. :(

[Brutus]

People underestimate the value of being a COF-in-training.

People tend to leave you alone (assuming you have the proper scowl on your face at all times), plenty of time to read, plenty of time to go to the range (I am very disappointed that our two TN COF are not armed to the teeth. What sort of Southerners are you?), etc.

Look at the bright side of being a COF! After all, the alternative is to [shudder] socialize.

[Osip]

Wow, a whole thread of future potential shut ins and they are all SDopers.
Just some thoughts before I add my 2 cents.

Skerri And, at this point, I would rather sit at home and hang out in my room rather than go out. The only thing that keeps me from turning into a gun-hoarding maniac is the fact that I don't like guns. (Whew! One redeeming factor.)
I do not horde guns, because at some times I do not trust myself. I get depressed and I do not want to have such a temptation in a moment of weakness. I find the humor of it since I am a crask shot when I was around handguns.
EveCan't you see me, leaning out the attic window, shouting, "GITT—OFF—MAH-PROPE'TY! DAMMMNNN YEWWWW!"
I can see it, I am positive you can pull it off with the flair and grace few people can.
I just hope your content alone, your a fantastic interesting lady.
ShibbOleth Who the hell are you? Angel to save us future recluse?(damn what is the plural?) Reclusi? Patron saint of the lonely? Maybe this was meant to clue us in:Gallatin is also home of an intergalactic portal which can only be reached via anonymous late model sedans parked next door to Tuckerfan's trailer.
Anyway good call on the Tuckerfan / Hillbillyqueen location match. all I have to say now is Save us Shibboleth your our only hope!!
Lsura I am glad to see optimism that you might break out of it by contact with people in grad school.
belladonna you said: I'm curious as to what flavor of insanity you plan on exhibiting. Will you wear only white and cover your windows in tinfoil? Will you use a straw to manually vaccuum your carpet? Will you collect tons and tons of books and boxes and use them to play "forts" all day?
I still have not moved the 5 thousand books out of my living room. it is only one more step to building a fort.
Fisherqueen I joined up with the local chapter of SCA light fighter practice, just so I would have to force myself to get out of the house at least once a week. I can also relate to loads of things you have mentioned.

[belladonna]

originally posted by Osip
I still have not moved the 5 thousand books out of my living room. it is only one more step to building a fort.
Well? What are you waiting for? :D

[TVGuy]

Let's see - would just living alone as a perverted lonley old man be reclusion or just sad and pathetic. I think I may be headed for that outcome - I wonder just when you cross the threshold between "sad and pathetic" and "nutso recluse"

Might it be when I start parking the motorcycle in the living room and using it as a chair?

hmmmm. Gives one pause, yes it does.

[Kat]

I'm another one of those. I'll have to move before I can become Crazy Cat Lady, though, because my condo association only allows one cat or dog per unit.

[Osip]

I do not have a great number of friends. The ones I do have are fantastic. I went with quality over quantity it seems. I find it difficult to get out of the house and run errands unless it is absolutely necessary unless I am starving I do not go to the grocery store, I rarely shop, and not a social butterfly. I was not always this way, but due to poor judgment and bad luck I have become more reserved and less open with people. Mayakovsky nailed it when he wrote "I love" found here http://mayakovsky.com/maya/ilove-en.htm
I have everything I need and most of the things I want. No debts and this lifestyle affords me to horde about 30% of my pay into savings. My life is good, much better than most. yet, somehow lacking. I have no one to share everything inside with.
Not that I have never had the chance. I have been fortunate in life to have met 7 different women with whom it could have worked out. Seven different women whom for some reason I felt more alive, on another level. Taste has taste, color has color. We would think the same thing at the same time and be doubly alive. Yet, each of these friends moved on. Over time we are in touch less and less, How can I compete with geography? Things near require more attention than a distant friend and so, we drift on to being fond memories. I was fond of laughing at this absurdity joking that lady luck was a jealous bitch. My downfall, came when an 8th moved back. Everything was going well (in my eyes) until the fateful day she said "I do not love you anymore" This is what sent me on such a similar spiral as you all. (or I imagine there is a connection) The other day, someone asked what would be the worse way to die. I thought and realized Dying alone, where no one wept or gave a damn would be the worse way to go. If you have not figured it out, I have been thinking of this topic a great deal. I have a friend Kerry, whom is such a person as the previous 7, and is a fantastic friend, I offered to let her move in since she was currently living back at home. She has already stated a long while a go, she did not want to date. Which if fine, I am more addicted to the friendship than the realities of a relationship but bring about. I do well in friendships, I can screw up a relationship in a heartbeat.
Yet, somehow for some reason she has changed her mind, I have not been able to get thru with her on the phone, but her stereo is here, so who knows, maybe she did get the job she interviewed for in Tampa and is to busy to return messages.
I am crawling back into society against my better judgment.
In the end, the mystery is not how we died, it's the way we live. The courage we have at birth becomes hoarded, shriveled, blown away. Year after year we become more alone. Yet, I know there are people out there I can live with that makes life exciting and vibrant. I have decided not to resign myself to living a life I might regret when it is all said and done. I just have no idea where to start and what to do.

[Gopher]

In the end, the mystery is not how we died, it's the way we live. The courage we have at birth becomes hoarded, shriveled, blown away. Year after year we become more alone. Yet, I know there are people out there I can live with that makes life exciting and vibrant. I have decided not to resign myself to living a life I might regret when it is all said and done. I just have no idea where to start and what to do.


Wow, that made me shiver for some reason, Osip

I'm years and years away from possibly being a COF but now this thread has got me worrying if I become one. Eeep, no one should resign themselves to being alone. So all you potential COF dopers, go and find cool people to be with!

[Ice Wolf]

That is way easier said than done, Gopher. I'm one who's burnt a lot of bridges, and spends a lot of time looking back at my mistakes, my lost opportunities, through the light of those flames. Introspection can drive ya crazy when you're lonely.

I expect to die alone. Mercifully, I do not see myself as being a woman in a house with a million cats (shudder), as I don't really have enough of an unscarred heart left to share my life with one pet, let along a stereotypical multitude. I hope only that any of the diseases and infirmities which took away my near ancestors visit themselves upon me before I'm completely helpless, or that I die suddenly of something else.

I'll just be that crazy old Aunt that no one's really related to by blood, I guess ...

Jeez, this thread is depressing! Go back to discussing the latest soft drink flavours, or something! :)

[Osip]

Gopher
Icewolf Nailed it. That is way easier said than done, Gopher. I'm one who's burnt a lot of bridges, and spends a lot of time looking back at my mistakes, my lost opportunities, through the light of those flames. Introspection can drive ya crazy when you're lonely.
Here is an example. The numbers are of course rough guesses. Say in the course of time you meet 100 people, by the time you weed out the issue laden psychotics, the self centered flakes, the materialistic grubbers, and the people with to nothing in common. Your down to maybe 3. Of those, two will be married or in a relationship. The last one (in my case, YMMV) The last will end up moving away within a year.
I fluctuate from Desire to rejoin society to a cold dread that to try is just going to produce the same results. Insanity after all, is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Maybe, you have to be a bit insane to be "normal" human to function in society.
I am currently in a rejoin society phase. I do not meet many people outside of work. what to do? Those are some damn ugly odds, and I question my resolve.
Well, I start by going outside of the home and doing things I enjoy doing, this should bring me into contact with people whom I will have more in common with than the typical bar scene. I need to continue to be happy with me alone, No one will want to invest time with someone with a troubled mind and insecurities.
I realize these past posts look to be depressing in nature. Which, is not how I am.
The fact of meeting people I like and get along with is not as easy as I believed once in my younger years. Does not mean I should give up. After all, Nothing worth while comes easy.

[Lsura]

Originally posted by Osip

I fluctuate from Desire to rejoin society to a cold dread that to try is just going to produce the same results. Insanity after all, is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Maybe, you have to be a bit insane to be "normal" human to function in society.
I realize these past posts look to be depressing in nature. Which, is not how I am.


I don't think your posts look depressing - rather, introspective, with a good idea of where your struggle is.

I don't know about the rest of the people in this thread, but I blocked myself off for years, and as a result, they and I quit trying to get close. I have people (not many) I refer to as friends, but the truth is, few of them really know me, and I don't know that I really know them. Maybe they believe that I do know them...I don't know. I've allowed myself to drift away from people after all the moves. I don't know why I do this though.

I do know that I built some pretty serious protective walls though, and though they've started to chip the last few years, I can't settle into my old patterns, or they'll just get thicker, until I die a lonely old woman (no cats...I'm allergic to cat saliva) in an aparment full of crap. Or not full of crap because I've moved every one to two years.

[Neidhart]

With me, it's more that every time I start associating with someone, after a few months to a year they simply break off contact: never respond to emails or to messages on their machine. Or they move to a distant city. I haven't said or done anything which would possibly make these people angry, they just seem to lose interest. Once would be a coincidence, but when it happens again and again I have to assume it's because of my inherent boringness and lack of charisma.

[Osip]

Lsura Yes, Big protective walls slowly chipping away.

I have a great deal of trusting people. Hell, I will lend out my car, and things, but, free reign of my emotions? HA!
It is to damn painful to give people free reign with my emotions right from the get go. Building such trust is a long process.
I unlike you have Dug in to my geographical location. I did the moving things for quite some time myself. Here at least I can build a history and have some stability to work from. I am not sure how well I would function packing up and moving somewhere where I know few people.

I am glad it comes across as "introspective, with a good idea of where your struggle is. " the great quest is when finally figureing out the problem doing something about it.

[Gut]

Count me in as one of those will die alone and be found long after the actual time of death with my face partially eaten by my cat.

What to do about it? Well at least there is a software dead man's switch (http://daisyman.arsware.org/dms/). The link doesn't work right now as Arsware is changing hosts but it will come back up sooner or later. You can read about it via Google's cache page (http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:JHg-TFqiz_AC:daisyman.arsware.org/dms/+Software+Deadman%27s+switch&hl=en&ie=UTF-8). Basically it will post to message boards and delete files from your computer if you don't check in after a set amount of time.

You may still be found partially eaten by your cat but at least they won't find your freaky pr0n and your internet friends will know you kicked it.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Annie-Xmas
Fortunately, if I die unexpectedly, I live in a town where everyone knows your business. Someone will check when I didn't show up for work.

There are tons of little towns like that in New Jersey. Would you happen to come from Hoboken? :)

[Ranchoth]

Put me down for the "will die alone, neighborhood children will think I'm a zombie" category.

I've always been very shy, VERY geeky/nerdy (And proud of it, Damnit), and tend to have trouble trusting people. Add a more-than-healthy dose of misanthropy to that, and voila: instant recluse!
Though I think I'll manage to avoid being discovered partially eaten weeks after my death...For starters, I don't like having pets. And second of all, I plan on retiring to an abandoned missile silo somewhere in the Rockies. (I hear the property prices are good, not counting refurbishing) It'll be pretty hard for someone to "Check up" on me there. Especially if I camoflage it.

'Doesn't mean I won't get lonely, though. :(

I already have a head start on the "packrat" angle (Though not much "trash" for me. I try and stay tidy.) And I DO collect weapons...replica weapons, at least. Mostly for financial, rather than moral, reasons.

Does this mean I get the last brownie? ;)

Ranchoth

[butter pie]

Ummmmm... if anyone is in town, and wants to meet me for a cup of tea (I'm funny, I swear) just let me know. :(

*tries to save the world from loneliness*

I can't do anything about the insanity part, though. Sorry.

[elmwood]

Originally posted by ShibbOleth
Gallatin is also home of an intergalactic portal which can only be reached via anonymous late model sedans parked next door to Tuckerfan's trailer.

I almost accepted a job as the planning director for Gallatin, until I found out none of the last ten planning directors stayed for more than a year.

As for my potential isolation ... well, I'm one of those romantically challenged single guys, too. I live alone in a big house with a pool; I thought "if my married peers can enjoy a house with a yard, dang it all, so should I!" My neighbors are assured I'm not a child molester or otherwise a social outcast.

For a while, I was absolutely terrified that I'd be alone come my 40th birthday or so. 'Rents are in their early 70s, and they're both aging fast. No brothers or sisters. I'm not super-close with my other relatives, not because of any sort of mutual hostility, but because we were never a big huggie-huggie-kissie-kissie extended family. My parents are my world.

A few months ago, an Oprah-ish event happened. My birth mother found me. Oh, yeah ... she went on to marry my birth father, so I've got two brothers and a sister. Full brothers. Full sister. REAL SIBLINGS, that look and think like me.

I'm not so scared anymore. I always knew I was adopted, but I'm still sorting out the "elmwood has two mommies" thing. A reunion is in the works.

Otherwise, I'm still looking for Ms Right. I've got my two dogs. I work a lot.

[Hazel]

No pets, no guns, no newspapers, but nevertheless, I feel that I'm another future nutty-recluse-in-cluttered-house. Well, the cluttered house isn't exactly "future," it's more "now". My mother always told me that I'd grow up to be a Colyer Brother. And I'm already nuts. But I'm not an actual recluse as long as I have a job. Am I?

[Racer1]

I’m probably not the best person to be giving advice, and I can’t claim to be in the position many of you are describing, but the best advice I ever received was from a friend who told me… “If you are unhappy, for God’s sake stop sitting on your arse and do something about it! That way, at least you can look back with no regrets however things turn out.”

At one time in my life that really helped. I sat down and made out a list of all the things bothering me and one by one addressed them in the best way I could.

Obviously, it is not easy to meet new friends or partners, and the sad fact is it is usually the shy or quiet people who need them most, but that doesn’t mean you can’t put yourself in the best position to try! If you like reading, why not spend the afternoon reading in the park or at the local library with a book? You never know who you might meet reaching for the same book, or who might trip over you sitting in the shade reading. If you feel unfit and bored, why not join the local gym or athletics club? That way you can kill two birds with one stone by getting the exercise, killing time doing something positive, and getting the added chance of meeting new and exciting people. Dammit, people! Look at all the dopers posting here in a similar situation. If you all went out at once you’d meet each other!

Oh, and in my experience, on the relationship front it’s best just to get on with your life, keep positive and see what comes your way. You never seem to find anyone while you’re looking, but the moment you’re not thinking about it…

Sorry, I'll shut up now. :)

[Neidhart]

originally posted by jinwicked
Ummmmm... if anyone is in town, and wants to meet me for a cup of tea (I'm funny, I swear) just let me know.

It's too bad you live so far away - and in Houston, one of the few places with a nastier climate than DC!

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

I have trouble trusting others. Left over from when I was a kid. There's always one kid that everybody beats up on. That was me. :(

I have a hard time finding people with common intrests.
I have no real off-line friends.

And, no idea in the world of what to do about it.

[butter pie]

Originally posted by Neidhart


It's too bad you live so far away - and in Houston, one of the few places with a nastier climate than DC! [/B]

Only if you can't stand the heat. :cool:

[Neidhart]

I loathe hot, muggy weather and love cold winters with frequent snow. It's too bad there are no large cities in Northern Maine!

[Lok]

Originally posted by Neidhart
I loathe hot, muggy weather and love cold winters with frequent snow. It's too bad there are no large cities in Northern Maine!
You are thinking too far south. Try Quebec, they have nice cold winters for you. :p

Jin,
Let me see, , San Jose, Toronto, Boston, Glasgow no, it doesn't look like I will make it to Houston, or even Texas, any time soon. But if that changes I will be more than happy to take you up on that cup of tea. I would never turn down the chance to spend time with a lovely young woman. :D

As for everyone else here, I am not very different from you, so I make myself do things. Like going on trips and to conventions. I know it is hard, I would rather sit here reading messages and playing games, but if you are not growing, you are dying. And there is already too much death in this world.

[Ice Wolf]

Wise words, Lok. Very wise words.

[Lok]

Originally posted by Ice Wolf
Wise words, Lok. Very wise words.
Well it is only common sense. Quebec is farther north then Maine. :D






















But seriously, thanks, but I am pretty sure I stole them from somewhere.

Lok

[Neidhart]

You are thinking too far south. Try Quebec, they have nice cold winters for you.

I'd thought of that - but to live and work in Canada legally, though, I'd have to become a citizen; my skills (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/skilled/qual1.html) probably don't qualify me.

[Neidhart]

See? I can't even C&P URLs correctly. :)

here. (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/skilled/qual-1.html)

[ultress]

Ok folks, get off the pity-party. There are too many actual people in the world that could use it. There is not a single one of you that I wouldn't talk to on the phone if you want to call email me and I'll send you the number.
You are alone because you chose to be that way. Any one on the face of the earth can make that same decision, even me. I could easily fit into your cast. But I will not. Life is too short, too many things to do, to see, to experience and too many people to discover, good and bad. So you make your own choice, live with it, and don't expect tears from the rest of the world. So you are shy, send an email to someone, explain that to them and let them help you. I have family, but I too chose to have my alone time, that doesn't make you a recluse, that simply means that there are times when you enjoy your hobbies and environment alone. It would probably be a better world if more people had downtime alone.
So don't say that you don't have anyone to hang with or talk to, cause this is Dopercity and there are plenty of dopers that would talk to you any time, day or night.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

ultress-- thank you for your rude & unsympathetic remarks.

Your "pull yourselves up by your own bootstraps" viewpoint couldn't possibly have ever been made to any of us before. :rolleyes:


But, I think we've got more going here than "shyness".

In my case, a crippling inability to trust or have faith in, my fellow Man.

But I suspect that the term "clinically depressed" could apply to many people in this thread. Myself included.

Hey, everybody! Watch our "hero" ultress react to the term clinical depression with the response: "But why don't you just cheer up?"

2 to 1 odds she does, or at least a varient.

[hajario]

Rude? Unsypathetic? Did we both read the same post?

ultress just offered her phone number to anyone who needed a friend. She's trying to help. So sorry that you don't like her methods or her outlook on life.

Haj

[masonite]

I appreciate Ultress's kind offer. However, I am also bugged by some of her statements:

You are alone because you chose to be that way.I could easily fit into your cast. But I will not.So you make your own choice, live with it, and don't expect tears from the rest of the world. (We are living with our choices, and also the choices of others, and I don't see anyone here expecting tears from anyone else.)

Ultress, it is really sweet of you to offer friendship to anyone on this message board, but your post has an air of someone saying "Snap out of it! Lighten up! Be like me! If I can do it, so can you!" which is unavoidably nauseating to some. It really isn't like we haven't heard this kind of thing before from people who are well-meaning but ultimately don't know what the hell they are talking about. Stick with the offer of friendship; hold the judgment, please.

Don't assume that your emotional/psychological constitution is of your own making. If it makes you happy, consider it a blessing, not an achievement.

[dwyr]

I didn't choose to be phobic but I am.

I did choose to do something about it when it finally got to be more than I could live with and I still am working on it. But it's not a simple thing and I spent too many years hiding from everyone and missed, I fear, so much interaction with people that I'll never be able to catch up, to learn how to do it all.

I still try.

[j666]

You all need dogs, not cats or snakes. Dogs have to be walked. Outside. Around people.
This will conteract your entirely sane and understandable desire to avoid a loud, nasty, smelly world with some severely unpleasant people in it. especially as dogs are best walked early in the morning. When the world is less noisy, loud, and smelly, and every-one you meet will be as sane and eccentric as you are. And walking their dogs.
And if you are a pack-rat, let me tell you when you die some idiot will pay a fortune for all that stuff if they find it in an antique store.

[j666]

Oh, I'm a depressive dog-owner.

[Quasimodem]

I guess you can add me to the list of folks who will probably die alone. Not that I'm looking forward to it, but the only woman who meant anything to me died of breast cancer last year.

Right now, I date occasionally, but these are friendship dates just for companionship and I don't really have much in common with the ladies other than we like to see new films.

My Himalayan-Persian cat Susie is really my best friend and if and when she dies I have no plans to get another one. I enjoy my work and enjoy the company of my co-workers here at the hospital, but I'm way older than they are and don't see them inviting me out, but that's okay too.

Because I live and work in a small town, I know my patients pretty well and see them in town occasionally, but I'm not particularly religious, so I see them mostly in the supermarket rather than at church. (When I don't see them in my professional capacity, that is).

I manage to get to Germany sometimes twice a year and see my friends and family there, and that is always a fun time, but it hurts when I have to leave, and even there, there is a big generation gap. I can see the day when I will be thought of as just a lovable eccentric old uncle or cousin. ;)

Are our numbers strong enough yet to form an army or at least a softball team? :D

Thanks

Quasi

[masonite]

Originally posted by Quasimodem

Are our numbers strong enough yet to form an army or at least a softball team?[/B]Ugh. Groups.




:D

[QueenAl]

I used to think I'd probably end up like that ...then I came out, went on the scene and now have a packed social life that makes me step back and wonder sometimes. I still have a sort of inner certainty that I'll never have a long-lasting relationship, but I don't think I'll end up without friends. I picture myself as an aged cackling lesbian staking out a coffee shop with a bunch of other aged cackling lesbians, drinking good wine and checking out the babes. I do have a child, but she'll be off having a life of her own, as will I.

[Neidhart]

Can't very well come out, as I'm straight :D . . . and I really am more of a cat person; don't dislike dogs but don't like 'em either.

[Lucretia]

I am not in the position many of you are, but I have seen many, many people who were. All of them more lonely and isolated than you. They were the elderly in nursing homes / assisted living facilities.

If I might make a suggestion, I've always found that a good way to stop focusing on my own life and problems was to do something for someone else. The lonely elderly are everywhere, and they are desperate for someone to spend time with them. Many of them are funny, smart, and have wonderful stories to tell.

If you are happy with the way you are, that's fine, but if not, there are lots of good friends to be had, just for the cost of some of your time.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by Neidhart
I'd thought of that - but to live and work in Canada legally, though, I'd have to become a citizen; my skills (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/skilled/qual1.html) probably don't qualify me.

Woo hoo! Looks like my sills qualify me to live AND work in Canada! Oh, wait...

My roommate and I quite often have conversations about how we're going to be living together 40 years from now, sitting on the balcony, screaming at strangers. I kinda hope that's not the case but I guess worse things could happen. We both just seem to have a knack for choosing men that either can't or won't commit. :(

Ah well - gives us lots of time to work on our respective careers.

As an aside, this seems like a pretty light hearted thread, but on a more serious note, if anyone here thinks that they're clinically depressed and not ok with that, PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESE see somebody. I know that for some people, melancholy is just how they want to be, which is just fine; however, if melancholy is NOT how you want to be at least consider seeing someone (assuming you haven't). My mom was clinically depressed for quite a long time, and it was really sad for the whole family. She was very difficult to be around. She finally had a breakdown, took a leave from work, took some medication, and spoke to her family doc on numerous occasions and is now doing 100% better. It's like having my old, fun mom back. Sometimes I think people creep downwards into depression, without realizing they are. Depression is a disease, which is treatable, but in a lot of cases, a person CAN'T get better without help.

Ok, I'm done.

Oh, except that, once my dad told me that I was a wanna be "Crazy Cat Lady". Wanna be, because I'm allergic to cats, so I have bunnies instead. Thanks dad. :D

[Neidhart]

Hi alice!

I know I'm not clinically depressed, even though I have some of the symptoms, because I eat, sleep and (when I have a job) work normally, and sometimes I do enjoy myself (especially when I'm reading or on the SDMB :) ).

[Justhink]

ultress --

Nice post sweetie; Did it, however, occur to you that some of us can easily fit into your cast? Action and conversion is self-explanitory, there are some who want something else out of life.

Sure, we can all go to a church, read the books, attend the sermons, listen to the music, join the groups, make the friends, gain 'that vigor' over the course of a couple of years; and rewire even hard nihilism into deism.... what's the point though? (metaphorical of any conversion)

I think 'these' types of loners tend to simulate people and events extra-ordinarily well; such that the simulations have more free-will than the environment. Who wants to waste twenty years training someone to be a 'peer' - only to risk having completely memorized them to banality because the psychic growth has not ceased its rapid processing. It's a sensitive issue of cognitive age IMO, and the reticence to tell someone that they are nothing but a robot to you. It's a very surreal experience to listen to people opine about 'genuine people', 'personality' and 'faults'; 'objectification' and whatnot; when you're metaphorically processing a trillion cycles of data per second and they're about 3 million cycles old. What on earth does one even say to such a person? It really boils down to old cognitions having less behavior at their disposal from which to draw meaning.
When females say, "I hate it when men objectify me; I want an intelligent man." (sorry to pick on the ladies .. it's just a common perception) They seem too arrogant to realize that an intelligent man can objectify their mind as easily as their bodies.
This is true of all intelligent simulators; there is a critical mass where personality becomes law, and astonishing predictive power becomes a matter of processing a corruption of that critical mass. (i.e. I can predict you, because you are less than me in every concievable subjective respect). This is a very sore subject for any human being, but will promote anger, disbelief and gossip in those who don't have the ability. It's like all those bell curves we become so famailiar with over-time. The most intelligent person is going to _look_ exactly the same as the 'dumb-ass' (which makes them _very_ easy targets (to them, that you are a target is self-explanitory; as to not even require articulation (hence, they don't ever critisize or gossip)- mastery of a system does not act within the confines of that system)); with the notable exception of cognitive ages being on extreme ends.
When a 'dum-dum' walks up and says, "Let's cut the BS.. do you wanna screw, and maybe be friends if that thing works out?"
They are objectifying the body and basically unaware of the 'subtleties' of what is you. The average simulator will address both topics to varying degrees; and the 'geniuses' will ask the same exact question as the 'dum-dum'. The difference of course is that human determinism has been synthesized, mapped, memorized, simulated (simultaneously processing 10 billion perspectives weighing per event) etc.. to such a vast degree; that what to 99.99999% of the population seems like their 'personality' _is_ nothing more than an easily manipulated object. The subtext is something like: (iow "I have memorized everything you can ever possibly think, feel or say.. please don't make me lie to you about having a personality of some sort...... but I'm really horny; are you?"). The ones with an ounce of integrity; will, by the act of objectifying your body, honor the sacredness of your humanity.
The others..... it's a very strange 'sociopathic pedifillia'; that they would even bother to reverse engineer your personality for their personal use. One may as well screw dead animals or converse with their own hands on a word procerssor. One begins to realize that chance has nothing to do with attractions; the predictive power of these revolve around theories of theft, trickery, violence and hypocrisy so severe, as to leave one feeling wholly alone in life. When you compound increased sexual tension by time being processed in incerments of trillionths of seconds; to label such people as weak, is clearly a misunderstanding of the courage required to maintain ones integrity at the expense of oneself over such magnified effects of emotion and pain; for the benefit of perspectives others will achieve in their more cognitive idealized forms. Just because you can't comprehend certain crimes (or never will in your life), doesn't mean that it isn't still a crime. All crimes are of the same axiom: It is more logical to commit suicide than to: <add crime here>. If it wasn't for the hope that people actually can grow cognitively (maybe 50 years of slow, chaotic suffering towards death at 112 years will even out the average cognitive age towards the current human peaks); geniuses would all consider humanity to be wholly morally depraved and unworthy of existence. The idea that everyone will achieve these critical masses of cognitive age at their sexual peaks instead of their last days or worst days; lends hope of a brighter reality.
I'll just make the statement that: what is to cognitive youth; qualities of sincerity, truth, honesty, morality, rightiousness, is to cognitive old-age; lies, deciets, acts & games that are violating trust implicit in the laws of determinism, transparency and consistancy aquired over time.
'Personality' and 'preference' eventually become framed as a luxury of cognitive youth.

Just because someone can do something, doesn't mean they will do or will even want to do it. Which one of you would have spotted the main charachter in "a beautiful mind" in that bar scene? Mental illness is not a requirement for blazing speeds of pattern formulation; you could have literally slapped the very person you've been 'seeking' all along. "No games" if actually applied, looks exactly the same on both ends of the spectrum.
Ironically, the statement is used to deselect people who don't play games (link between intelligence and lying for a general population); throwing out the gems with the garbage.

These people will most likely not be sexually or emotionally attractive to you at all; as everything you percieve in these realms is to them: "the game". "If I smile right now, this human being will have a better opinion of me, if I say these words right now, this human being will continue the conversation, if I make this gesture; this human being will become attracted to me...."
To suggest that they underestimate your intelligence; is as statistically charming as every bible-thumper believing that they are of the few in "The path is narrow and few will enter.". It might make you 'feel' good to think that about yourself, it however has no bearing on the reality of the situation. These people are doing for perspective what in the words of Mozart; (paraphrase - can't remember verbatim) "The ability to hear an entire symphony at once, the joy of which I wish I could pass to every person - it is unspeakable." These people are simultaneously simulating, processing, combining and creating 100's of millions personality structures; parallell processing in short term memory; with the ability to literally decide whether or not to pretend 'scared' at the balloon that just popped like everyone else, or just ignore it. Either way, it rarely, if ever crosses the average mind, that the person actually had a protracted period of decision.

It would be more accurate to say; "I want someone who treats my mind like an object" or "I want attractive people who aren't hopelessly stupid and unsuccessful". That is at least consistent with the way that human beings as a general population approach all relationships, regarding meaning. That is literally what the net is designed to catch, no matter what is said. Those open terms that take meaning to the extreme of human depth, that grow in volume and qaulity over time become so transformed, as to wonder why people even bother using those words they clearly don't understand; and don't just listen long enough to realize what they actually mean; so that at least we can extend some understanding and compassion towards our moral reserves of humanity.

This stuff can go on for days and days, but hopefully you had an opportunity to see a fraction of one of many equally compelling and valid reasons why people do as they do; and yet do so with moral validity. I can complain that intimate moral companionship is next to impossible for me without aknowledged object to object transfers (as in prostitution); and you can complain that my arrogance is less valid than your arrogance. I guess the proof is that you're having a good go of it; right? Clearly, it's not always as simple as it appears.......


-Justhink

[Justhink]

I suppose another way to frame the prior post is to talk about tic-tac-toe. Tic-tac-toe is a very simple game. If someone starts out with any of the middle squares on the perimeter; they automatically lose the game. That someone doesn't want to take the time to play the game out; doesn't make it false. If after a couple moves a certain pattern emerges; a draw can be forced, but no win can emerge. There are so few combinations in tic-tac-toe; that it is easy for anyone to memorize and grasp the dynamics of motivation, ethics and winning. If to recieve a companion, one must win at tic-tac-toe, the only person who gains an advantage is the person who has the entire game memorized and more importantly _doesn't tell anyone, ever_. If they tell people; nobody will play with them, and the companion will not come; or people will feel cheated all around, violated trust. The person who doesn't have the game memorized is still required by chance to play the same exact game, only they have the luxury of claiming sincerity; by virtue of their ignorance. Sincerity speaks greater volumes than virtue, as it's evidence is much more transparent -- sincerity very cheap; it's expressions that simulate vigor are easy to come by. It's so much 'sexier' to be able to tell someone "I've played a little tic-tac-toe in my day *s*"
or "I seem to be really good at these types of games." or even better; "I've never played this before in my life."; than "I have memorized tic-tac-toe, the only way you can defeat me is if I let you." Out in the real world.. that last statement does not fly. In the inner world; the lack of sincerity involved in even getting someone to play with you is depressing. It's not any single persons fault; but rather the structure of the system; that uses the 'security' of game encryption as a test of human value. There are actually human beings who have decrypted the entire game that the population uses. Their best success is in simulating luck; being deceptive. The other combinations will incite anger and aggression, betrayal etc.. Is this human being supposed to deprive themselves of all tangible experience simply because they don't have a game to play; and are honest about it? Unfortunately, yes; that is often the case - otherwise you will most likely be killed (which is suicide to such a person). I believe these are called "pickles".

-Justhink

[lurkernomore]

Don't discount you have loners among you who aren't behind physical walls, just mental/emotional ones. People who can be alone in a crowd. They go to the store and buy their groceries, work, maybe say hello (but almost never more) to some of the neighbors, don't objectize everyone around, don't feel superior, but just don't seem to be able to connect. They're functional in some senses, dysfunctional in others. Some of these people aren't outcasts rejected by society in general, but reclusive emotionally rather than physically. Relationships with others are superficial. They're more misfits than outcasts. Flying under the radar, they live and die alone, unnoticed, and after they are gone, maybe people realize the car was always in the driveway, but almost never any visitors. "You know, nobody else on the block was in their house in the last 15 years...". The SDMB here I think can be a sounding board. Message boards are more detached than email, which is more than phones, which is more than actual physical interaction.

I'm one, I think. Most of those "they"s could've been "we"s.

[Osip]

Wow justthink That was a very in depth post.
I had to read it three times just to grasp the full meaning.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

Originally posted by lurkernomore
Don't discount you have loners among you who aren't behind physical walls, just mental/emotional ones. People who can be alone in a crowd. They go to the store and buy their groceries, work, maybe say hello (but almost never more) to some of the neighbors, don't objectize everyone around, don't feel superior, but just don't seem to be able to connect. They're functional in some senses, dysfunctional in others. Some of these people aren't outcasts rejected by society in general, but reclusive emotionally rather than physically. Relationships with others are superficial. They're more misfits than outcasts. Flying under the radar, they live and die alone, unnoticed, and after they are gone, maybe people realize the car was always in the driveway, but almost never any visitors. "You know, nobody else on the block was in their house in the last 15 years...". The SDMB here I think can be a sounding board. Message boards are more detached than email, which is more than phones, which is more than actual physical interaction.

I'm one, I think. Most of those "they"s could've been "we"s.

On target from where I'm sitting.

[belladonna]

[i]originally posted by Lucretia[/i[
If I might make a suggestion, I've always found that a good way to stop focusing on my own life and problems was to do something for someone else. The lonely elderly are everywhere, and they are desperate for someone to spend time with them. Many of them are funny, smart, and have wonderful stories to tell.

If you are happy with the way you are, that's fine, but if not, there are lots of good friends to be had, just for the cost of some of your time.

I just thought this needed repeating. Wonderful point, Lucretia. I've taken my young son to a nursing complex nearby a few times to visit a friend while he was staying with his mom. I am absolutely amazed at how the sound of a young child can pull tenents out of their rooms. Everybody wants to tell him hi, and pat his head. It's makes me feel kind of nice, and he gets lots of attention, so he loves it too!

bella

[belladonna]

gaahhhhhhhh!!

I've betrayed you, Preview. Neglected you. I'll never skip over you again.

::broken sobbing::

[ultress]

It amazes me sometimes how differently people can read and digest posts.
Clinically depressed? Wow, how about manic depressive? Or how about bi-polar for starters? Want to name some more? I doubt very seriously that you could top what I can. I very well understand exactly what you are talking about, dealing with, and living with.
My post had absolutely nothing to do with 'pulling yourself up by your boot straps." I'm fully aware that is not always possible. My point is that there are people out there that will help you by being your friend if you will only let them know. And I doubt very seriously that anyone on this board would desire to be me or to live the life I've led nor would I expect them to. It is, after all mine.

[Tuckerfan]

Okay, I've been meaning to get back to this thread but have been occupied with other things.

ultress, this thread wasn't intended as a pity party, it's an earnest effort on my part to try and avoid a pretty crappy future. I have a grand total of three friends I see on a regular basis. I've got a fourth that I see occassionally. That's it. Out of those four, only one of them stands a chance of not ending up with the same kind of future that I'm looking to avoid. Obviously, I need some new friends. How do I go about getting them? I lack social skills, I can't dance, I've got very little money so I can't "grab a beer" with someone after work (and there's not really anyone I work with that I'd want to hang out with, don't dislike the folks, but their not really mind kind of people, most of them are "Joe Sixpack" types and I ain't), and I'm really tired of this Unabomber kind-of-life that I've been leading.

Thanks for your offer to call, but I gotta admit, I don't need friends over the wire, I've got penpals in various points of the globe, I've got the friendly folks here at the Dope, who've helped me through a rough spell or thirty. Nope, I need friends in the flesh, who show up unexpectedly at my place, or who call and saying they're fixing dinner and would I like to come over and join 'em? (And I'll be more than happy to do the same for them.)

That's one of the reasons why I've suggested the Dopefest for the past two years is so that I could meet folks in the flesh. Still, it's not enough, I'm not doing the right things and it's because I don't know what the right things are! The "just keep trying things until you find something that works" approach is time consuming and frustrating. (Not to mention there's a severe lack of feedback in letting you know what you did wrong, only that you did something wrong.)

There has to be a better way, and that's why I started this thing. I need ideas, because I've run out of 'em.

[Squish]

I have cats!

I have weapons! (all bladed ones, but still weapons)

I think I need more books...

[Khadaji]

Originally posted by hillbilly queen
I don't have many relatives left, and don't get along with the remaining ones. Plus they already think I'm weird. So, I'll probably be one of those old ladies with a houseful of cats. I don't have any cats now, but I have a few years to get my collection started.
Hillbilly queen, I don't believe it, not for a minute. I've seen your picture and you are hot. And I've read your posts and you seem to be fun. You'll be alone only for as long as you want...

[Batsinma Belfry]

Wow, that's really sweet. I think it's my "funness" that my relatives find weird.

[Tuckerfan]

Originally posted by Squish
I have cats!

I have weapons! (all bladed ones, but still weapons)

I think I need more books...

For some reason Squish, I feel like you should have prefaced your post with, "Stay back!"

[Khadaji]

Originally posted by hillbilly queen
Wow, that's really sweet. I think it's my "funness" that my relatives find weird.
LOL. Relatives are forced upon us, our friends we get to pick. If there weren't enough familial resemblance to prove otherwise, I would swear that I was adopted...