View Full Version : Just finished The Dark Knight Returns andd have a couple of questions
08-02-2002, 01:36 AM
First, why does he change half-way through from a costume with a yellow circle around the bat logo to one without? I know his costume was ripped up but why is the spare a slightly different design?
Second, and a bit bigger, why does he decide to beat the crap out of Superman at the end? I'm obviously missing something here but I couldn't see any concrete reason for it other than maybe Batman not liking him much.
08-02-2002, 01:57 AM
For those watching, this is not referring to DK2.
I haven't read DKR in many a year, but here goes. 1, costume change. Bats has an armor plate under the yellow logo as a target. As he is doing something, he gets hit right in it, ruining the suit, and causing severe chest pain. He starts using an older suit rather than having Alfie do sewing.
2, fight with Supes. Bats has been in a fight with Joker, and Joker kills himself in such a way as to make it look like Bats did it. Supes is sent to stop Bats from killing again. Walks into trap. And Bats has always been jealous that Supes has godlike abilities and believes that Supes has wasted them when he would have put them to more vigorous use.
08-02-2002, 02:15 AM
why does he decide to beat the crap out of Superman at the end?
'Cuz Supesy is a whiny, smarmy git who SHOULD be slapped around.
08-02-2002, 08:52 AM
(if it's even necessary) ** SPOILER WARNING **
Silent, in answer to your first question, I'll partially agree with taggert, but I think the costume change is more metaphorical than anything else. If you also noticed, the style of drawing changes as the book goes on. Starts out nice and clean, and by the end of the book, it looks like a ten-year-old kid is drawing it. IMHO, that's a metaphor for the changes Bats is going through. He starts out with the best of intentions -- let's clean up Gotham. But by the end, everything's murky. He's killed Joker (which he wouldn't have done back when he was younger and idealistic). He's seen dozens and dozens of people get killed. He's been seriously injured by the leader of the Mutants, and one of his former allies turns on him (Supes). The book started out dark and just kept getting darker.
The costume's the same way -- he starts out in the blue-and-gray, as a symbol of the idealistic Batman, and by the end, he's reverted to a grittier older version of himself (which was more how Batman started out, anyhow).
El Elvis Rojo
08-02-2002, 08:57 AM
Actually, he didn't kill the Joker. He broke his neck to the point he knew would paralyze him, but the Joker is the one who finished himself off. So, Batman was still innocent. The costume change may have simply been an artist decision; maybe he just prefers that costume to the others. Or, perhaps it was more to help show the darker side of the Bat. Batman was back into instilling fear, which is easier to do when you're dark and brooding and not all cartoony looking.
08-02-2002, 09:04 AM
Woops. Forgot about that. Thanks for the clarification on the Joker, Elvis.
08-02-2002, 09:19 AM
I thought it was so Superman could 'remember the one man who beat you'
I think that's the line.
He wanted to humble Superman. Plus every great hero myth needs a great death. Bruce Wanye knew that the Batman myth was more important than Batman himself. Wayne had already made plans for the Sons of Batman to replace him but Batman had to go out with style.
Elvis I thought that people thought that Batman killed the Joker. The couple in the tunnel of Love see them fighting and think that Batman is killing him.
El Elvis Rojo
08-02-2002, 09:58 AM
People did THINK Batman killed the Joker, but the truth is, Bats never stepped over his "no kill" rule, dispite what people thought. The clarrification was for the whole "See how dark he gets" argument. He did get darker, yes, but he still remained true to himself in that aspect, which could be another reason for his boute with Supes. He beat him, and could very well have killed him, but didn't. I always took the fight to be one of those things Batman just always wanted to do because he and Superman have always been at odds. And, it was a set up to get Superman to proclaim his "death," even though that was also some sort of ploy as well apparently.
That, and it was just a great scene.
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