What started the Riot of Woodstock 1999?

[Lord Ashtar]

Any thoughts on this? Will post my opinion shortly.

[Airman Doors, USAF]

1) People who paid a fortune having to pay again to go to the bathroom, eat, get water, etc.

2) People who paid a fortune seeing other people sneak in for free.

3) People who paid a fortune feeling used.

4) People who paid a fortune getting exactly what they paid for, some aggressive, pumped up music getting them wound up while they're all pissed off about paying a fortune to see people sneak in, starve, dehydrate, and feeling used.

That's all it was. When the herd mentality took over, all hell broke loose and there was no controlling it.

[squeegee]

Alcohol.

[tclouie]

Typical male horniness, plus the frat-boy feeling of "no one's watching, I'm in a crowd, I can do what I want," led to repeated rapes of women in the mosh pit.

Unfortunately, this may not have been a problem unique to Woodstock '99. It may occur at more rock concerts than we may want to admit.

[Lord Ashtar]

I tend to agree with Airman, as I believe that, whether at a subconscious level or not, the people were pissed off that the idea of Woodstock was being destroyed by the record lables. The original Woodstock was (please correct me if I'm wrong) free, and the idea of being charged $5.00 for a 12 oz. bottle of water, in addition to all the songs about violence being performed, probably got the people all worked up and they decided to revolt. Actually, perhaps the spirit of Woodstock was not destroyed after all. Woodstock was all about revolution.

[Airman Doors, USAF]

Oh, no. The original Woodstock cost money, but then the fences were overran and nobody cared except the promoters.

Now concert goers care because the prices are so tremendously high.

Different times, different world.

[Cardinal]

I seem to remember that at the original Woodstock concert, so many people had snuck in that the promoters were faced with the possibility of doing something horrendous like putting everyone outside and checking ticket stubs. Then they imagined the logistics and the arguments about "I lost it!"

At this point they just declared that it was an open session. They were stuck with the tickets that had been sold up to that point.

Isn't this right?

[imthjckaz]

They ran out of cheese curds.

[Profane]

I wasn't at that Woodstock, but everything I've seen matches up with what Airman Doors posted.


Originally posted by tclouie
Typical male horniness, plus the frat-boy feeling of "no one's watching, I'm in a crowd, I can do what I want," led to repeated rapes of women in the mosh pit.

Unfortunately, this may not have been a problem unique to Woodstock '99. It may occur at more rock concerts than we may want to admit.

I was at Woodstock 94 and while I didn't see actual rapes, I did see/experience the following:

While in the pit a girl who was crowd surfing literally had her clothes ripped off.

When walking back to my tent alone I had to pass through a large group of guys screaming "show us your tits." I was more than a little scared.

Later in the pit I was grabbed by a guy who kept yelling he was from 'Jersey and that I was beautiful while trying to kiss me. Luckily I was rescued by friends.




I've been fondled countless times at other shows, which is usually met with sharp elbow to the solar plexus. You'd think things would be getting better in this day and age, but apparently not.

[TV time]

Promoters who having seen a buck to be made, attempted to do so despite stealing the name of a real classic event (which goes for all psuedo "Woodstocks").

[japatlgt]

Drugs and alcohol.

[WSLer]

Originally posted by TV time
Promoters who having seen a buck to be made, attempted to do so despite stealing the name of a real classic event (which goes for all psuedo "Woodstocks").

Wrong.

All 3 Woodtsocks had at least one and the same promoter in common, so "stealing" is a really stupid thing to say.

As far as paying a fortune goes, as I recall tickets were $150 for 3 days of bands. That is more then getting your damn money's worth.

Hell, for the Eagles Hell Freezes Over Tour tickets were $200 and that was for 2 bands playing for a little more then 4 hours.

Don't talk about paying a fortune unless the proportions are correct.

Airman,

They didn't have to pay again to use the toilets. There weren't enough toilets and the ones that were there malfunctioned and overflowed, which some folks mistook for mud puddles, which tye proceeded to roll around in /Sideshow Bob shudder/.

And people are really naive and really stupid if they expected food/water to be given away for free. Prices weren't that outrageous, it just makes me wonder how many people came to the concert without any money in the first place.

[Wolfian]

Originally posted by tclouie
Typical male horniness, plus the frat-boy feeling of "no one's watching, I'm in a crowd, I can do what I want," led to repeated rapes of women in the mosh pit.

As a "frat-boy" I just have to say that the feeling of "no one's watching, I'm in a crowd, I can do what I want" isn't unique to fraternity memebers. It can happen to any crowd.

[LolaCocaCola]

I was also at Woodstock '94. I didn't have to pay cuz the peace patrol had walked off the job - besides the crappy weather and MUD, I actually had a great time and met a cute boy! :D

[Profane]

Don't get me wrong Lola, I had an awesome time too!

[tclouie]

My apologies to Wolfian. I have indeed known some fraternity and sorority members who were decent, intelligent and even socially conscious. The mob-rape mentality can indeed happen to any crowd, particularly if it is composed of oversexed young men who are away from home for the first time and have too much money, too much freedom, too much alcohol in their bodies and too few scruples.

Come to think of it, that describes a lot of guys who end up joining fraternities and giving their brothers a bad name.

[shrew]

Originally posted by Lord Ashtar
I believe that, whether at a subconscious level or not, the people were pissed off that the idea of Woodstock was being destroyed by the record lables. The original Woodstock was (please correct me if I'm wrong) free, and the idea of being charged $5.00 for a 12 oz. bottle of water, in addition to all the songs about violence being performed, probably got the people all worked up and they decided to revolt. Actually, perhaps the spirit of Woodstock was not destroyed after all. Woodstock was all about revolution.

You have GOT to be kidding. In order to exalt the idea of revolution in the name of peace, they burned, pillaged, destroyed, rioted, and stole? And just for kicks and giggles, raped countless women? And you have the audacity to say that they did that in the sprit of the original Woodstock?

Puhleaze.

As to the OP, why did they do it? The times they are a'changin'. The spirit of Woodstock '69 is all but dead. The promoters were insane to think that today's young people were capable of such togetherness. So they had to stand in line? Put up with insufficient outhouses? Pay for food that didn't belong to them? Boo friggin' hoo. Welcome to the real world, gentlemen.

[Meatros]

Originally posted by shrew

As to the OP, why did they do it? The times they are a'changin'. The spirit of Woodstock '69 is all but dead. The promoters were insane to think that today's young people were capable of such togetherness. So they had to stand in line? Put up with insufficient outhouses? Pay for food that didn't belong to them? Boo friggin' hoo. Welcome to the real world, gentlemen.

This is such a weak, crappy, and pathetic excuse. A lot of people seem to think that today's society is worse than those of yesteryear (good old days syndrome of forgetfulness). In my opinion this is just a reaction to losing touch with society. I hate to break it to some of you folks but previous generations were not guilt free and all love your neighbor conscious. I think the problem with this believe lays in the news. News programs report sensationalism, not an accurate portrate of reality. Take for instants this new fear of child abduction. Their is no increase in abduction, only abduction stories being shown on the news.

If you think concert violence is a result of youths in the 90's you are SADLY mistaken.

[Mr_Friendly]

and to say that women get raped in the moshpit? do you know what a moshpit is? I cant imagine how hard it would be to rape someone among all the manically jumping and running people, what a stupid thing to say. In any group there will be stupid, ignorant or plain chauvanistic males who will take advantage of situations to get sexual kicks, this is no way related solely to rock music. If anything rock can often promote equality and respect for women, it will naturally vary from group to group and event to event.

[Wolfian]

Originally posted by tclouie
My apologies to Wolfian. I have indeed known some fraternity and sorority members who were decent, intelligent and even socially conscious. The mob-rape mentality can indeed happen to any crowd, particularly if it is composed of oversexed young men who are away from home for the first time and have too much money, too much freedom, too much alcohol in their bodies and too few scruples.

Come to think of it, that describes a lot of guys who end up joining fraternities and giving their brothers a bad name.

Apology excepted. I agree. :)

[shrew]

Originally posted by Meatros
This is such a weak, crappy, and pathetic excuse. A lot of people seem to think that today's society is worse than those of yesteryear (good old days syndrome of forgetfulness). In my opinion this is just a reaction to losing touch with society. I hate to break it to some of you folks but previous generations were not guilt free and all love your neighbor conscious. I think the problem with this believe lays in the news. News programs report sensationalism, not an accurate portrate of reality. Take for instants this new fear of child abduction. Their is no increase in abduction, only abduction stories being shown on the news.

If you think concert violence is a result of youths in the 90's you are SADLY mistaken.

I'm going to ignore the typographical and grammatical errors of your post and go straight for content. Stating that times are changing is not the same as saying that past times were trouble-free. Sure, history had its own set of problems, but the youth of today are different because society is different. The concepts of childhood and youth are different. Societal factors are different. Social conditioning is different. Just to name a few factors, we have Ritalin, Columbine et al., more widespread gang and sexual activity, different racial problems, and of course the changing face of the standard family. While none of these factors are entirely new, they are different.

Have I based my opinions on sensationalistic news programs? Or a skewed loss of reality? Well, let's see. I'm 25, and I've been teaching high school for the last four years. I work with teenagers everyday. I may not be an expert on teenagers, but I'm closer than most people.

[pesch]

They ate the brown acid?

C'mon. SOMEBODY had to say it.

[The Wrong Girl]

Originally posted by Mr_Friendly
and to say that women get raped in the moshpit? do you know what a moshpit is? I cant imagine how hard it would be to rape someone among all the manically jumping and running people, what a stupid thing to say. In any group there will be stupid, ignorant or plain chauvanistic males who will take advantage of situations to get sexual kicks, this is no way related solely to rock music. If anything rock can often promote equality and respect for women, it will naturally vary from group to group and event to event.

Perhaps I'm not understanding your post correctly, but are you saying that women getting raped at Woodstock '99 didn't happen?

Again, sorry if I misunderstood your post.

[Lord Ashtar]

Originally posted by The Wrong Girl


Perhaps I'm not understanding your post correctly, but are you saying that women getting raped at Woodstock '99 didn't happen?

Again, sorry if I misunderstood your post.

I don't believe he was saying that there were no rapes at Woodstock '99. It is demonstratibly true that women were raped at that festival.

He was saying that it didn't happen in the mosh pits. For those who don't know, a mosh pit is when a small opening in the crowd starts from someone slamming back and forth until people back up. Then, other people run into this opening and purposely run into people. Sometimes it gets really violent, but most of the people who can't take it either leave or get pulled out.

Nobody could be raped in a true mosh pit.

[Lord Ashtar]

Originally posted by shrew
You have GOT to be kidding. In order to exalt the idea of revolution in the name of peace, they burned, pillaged, destroyed, rioted, and stole? And just for kicks and giggles, raped countless women? And you have the audacity to say that they did that in the sprit of the original Woodstock?

Puhleaze.

I never said they got it right in 1999. The original Woodstock was about rebellion. This is why I make a point to say Woodstock and Woodstock '99. There was only one true Woodstock. The second was closer than the third.

As to the OP, why did they do it? The times they are a'changin'. The spirit of Woodstock '69 is all but dead. The promoters were insane to think that today's young people were capable of such togetherness. So they had to stand in line? Put up with insufficient outhouses? Pay for food that didn't belong to them? Boo friggin' hoo. Welcome to the real world, gentlemen.

My point about the water was, seriously, $5.00 for a 12 oz. bottle of water? Even you have to admit that's more than a little steep. And it's not like they could just run down to the 7-eleven when they wanted a drink. It was either, spend an exorbant amount of money, or go thirsty.

Besides, there is no way a person could carry 3 days worth of food and water to a place like that. At least, not carry it with them at all times and still properly enjoy the show. If I had gone, I would have brought propably between $150.00 and $200.00 with me for food and souveniers. But not everyone is as well off as I.

[Meatros]

Originally posted by shrew


I'm going to ignore the typographical and grammatical errors of your post and go straight for content. Stating that times are changing is not the same as saying that past times were trouble-free. Sure, history had its own set of problems, but the youth of today are different because society is different. The concepts of childhood and youth are different. Societal factors are different. Social conditioning is different. Just to name a few factors, we have Ritalin, Columbine et al., more widespread gang and sexual activity, different racial problems, and of course the changing face of the standard family. While none of these factors are entirely new, they are different.

Have I based my opinions on sensationalistic news programs? Or a skewed loss of reality? Well, let's see. I'm 25, and I've been teaching high school for the last four years. I work with teenagers everyday. I may not be an expert on teenagers, but I'm closer than most people.

Thank you for ignoring the typographical and grammatical errors-I noticed them FAR to late. I'm more than willing to admit that the youth of today are slightly different than that of yesteryear, but I think you go to far with statements such as "The promoters were insane to think that today's young people were capable of such togetherness" and "So they had to stand in line? Put up with insufficient outhouses? Pay for food that didn't belong to them? Boo friggin' hoo. Welcome to the real world, gentlemen. "
The first statement I disagree with because it is absurd. Why do you believe this? I mean hindsight is twenty-twenty sure, but the second Woodstock was almost incident free (as much as most concerts can be) and I'm willing to bet that at least 95% of concerts now-a-days do not include raping and pillaging.

The second statement you made I don't agree with because I don't think it was the real reason things went down the way they did. How many other events are outrageously expensive, that don't result in violence? I might agree with you if you said that the price and bad outhouses were PART of the problem.

I'm just curious but do you have any nationwide statistics or sites that lend you to believe that the world is getting darker (for lack of a better phrase)? I maybe misinterpreting you but it seems to me like you think the world is a lot more violent than it once was.

[The Wrong Girl]

Originally posted by Lord Ashtar

Nobody could be raped in a true mosh pit.

Well then, I guess there were no "true (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/july99/woodstock29.htm) mosh pits (http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/Music/9907/29/woodstock.rape/)" at Woodstock then, huh, since these clearly state that women were raped in the mosh pits.

[Tars Tarkas]

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/020712.html

cecil on whether the world is more dangerous now-a-days. (sort of relavent)

[Meatros]

Interesting, so violent crime works on cycles. I thought as much.

[gex gex]

originally posted by Shrew
So they had to stand in line? Put up with insufficient outhouses? Pay for food that didn't belong to them? Boo friggin' hoo. Welcome to the real world, gentlemen.

This isn't comparable to the real world at all. The festival was a monopoly; there were no businesses competing to force prices down to a reasonable level. Furthermore, the artificially high prices were on goods that are necessities; the consumer can not choose not to purchase the good.

Your average Joe bitches when fuel prices go up. How do you think they'd like it 'the real world' was like this. There'd be a limit of one supermarket chain that had fixed abnormally high prices.

And I'm not sure where you come up with the idea of "insufficient outhouses" being a fact of life in "the real world." I sure can find somewhere to relieve myself when I'm out and about, and I'm wondering why you consider a request for proper amenities deserves the response "boo-friggin hoo."

And if there are any grammatical or spelling errors in this post, I thank you in anticipation that you'll so graciously excuse them.

[Meatros]

Good response Gex! I couldn't've said better myself!