NetGeek Terms: NetBIOS, SMB, Active Dir/Domain Sharing, "Windows Networking"

[AHunter3]

I'm a Mac person whose familiarity with PC networking is pretty much organized around my needs and abilities to connect to and share with PCs. Here's what I thought I knew:

Back when PCs were running Windows 3.11, "Windows for Workgroups", the common sharing protocol they used was NetBEUI. Back then there was no NetBEUI client for the Mac, or not that I could find. However you could install DAVE on the Mac and set up TCP services on Windows for Workgroups, and enable NetBIOS over TCP for sharing. NetBIOS, or so I gathered, was a superset which included NetBEUI but also included NetBIOS over TCP, and with DAVE on the Mac we had a common sharing protocol.

So in conversation with people I'd refer to shares as either AppleTalk or NetBIOS shares. Under Wndows 95 and onward, Microsoft material would often call it "Windows Networking"; I've also heard it called "Microsoft Networking". All the same stuff, or so I assumed.

Now, in more recent times, PC folks and MacOS X techies discussing x-platform networking tend to use the term "SMB" (sometimes called "Samba"). DAVE still lets me see those shares on the Mac (including MacOS X, where it still works better than the built-in SMB on MacOS X) so again I assumed it was just yet another term for the protocol I know as NetBIOS.

But the other day our networking geek was talking about upgrading the Windows servers to Win2K so he could use something called "Active Directory" and "get rid of NetBIOS". Huh? Yeah, he says, then sharing will be by domain sharing. Well, can I still access those shares on my Mac? He doesn't know, so I have a coworker who has a Win2K server set up for development set up a share and yes, DAVE lets me access it. I do have to log into the domain, but that's been true since I started here, when they were usng NT Servers. I do know the difference between Workgroups and Domains, but it's all NetBIOS either way...yes?

I guess in the long run all that matters is that I am able to connect and access the files and/or copy stuff into or out of the PC folders. But I hate to remain ignorant and make a fool of myself referring to NetBIOS if it ain't NetBIOS, or start calling it something else without knowing what the difference is.

Explain?

[Lord Derfel]

Officially, Microsoft is trying to ditch NetBIOS. Really, all it was used for was computer name (and resource) to IP address mapping. It's all supposed to be done by DNS now. The actual resource sharing uses a different protocol (SMB), and doesn't (and never has) require NetBIOS.

I don't have any experience setting up Macs for a Win2k domain, but if they can use DNS (and they can), then they will not have any problems with name to IP address mapping when NetBIOS is gone.

[micilin]

What we have here is a classic case of mixing levels. Netbios over TCP (NetBT) allow you to access shares, transfer files, etc.

How do you know where the share is in the first place though? Well, under Windows NT you use a 'Browser Server' to ask what shows up in your network Neighbourhood, or in Dave. You then look up the names of the computers shown to you in your Network in the Windows Ineternet Name Service (WINS) serverto find out their IP addresses (unless they're on the same network as you, in which case you can just do a broadcast.

In Windows 2000 you're suppposed to use a combination of Active Directory (AD) and Dynamic Domain Name System (DNS or DDNS) servers to find where things are, so doing away with WINS. You still have Browser servers to tell you where stuff is. You can still use WINS though, until all your computers understand Active Directory services

You'll still be using your NetBT to get the files though: Active Directory is not a replacement for NetBIOS, and if you know the names and IP addresses of the machine you need to talk to, you're fine.

[AHunter3]

So what's being eliminated is not NetBIOS but WINS?

Hmm...then the mere fact that I was able to mount a Win2K share on my Desktop via DAVE doesn't mean much, since we still have WINS servers running. The big question would be how well I can do that in the absence of WINS servers.

I would know the IP addresses of the main servers that I most need to access, and certainly their names (and the names of their shares, or I can just use C$, D$, etc). Would this mean that I would not be able to browse the list of available shares, though? I'd have to specify by name and IP, typing them in manually? (Bummer). Sounds survivable, though.

So...is SMB a term interchangeable with NetBIOS, or specifically NetBIOS over TCP (NetBT as micilin says; that's a new term for me)? Is it SMB with or withouth WINS Servers?

Can't they just pick a name and stick with it?

[ftg]

Nitpick: "Samba" (http://us1.samba.org/samba/samba.html) is a free implementation of (most of) "SMB" for use, e.g., on Unix boxes. I've admined mixed networks and samba allowed me to mount MS boxes filesystems on Unix boxes. (And could do printers etc. as well.) It doesn't appear to be ported to Macs, with their links pointing to "Dave".

[Lord Derfel]

So what's being eliminated is not NetBIOS but WINS?
The 2 are related - WINS requires NetBIOS to work, but NetBIOS doesn't require WINS.

In the absence of a WINS server, NetBIOS uses broadcasts to build its list of name to IP mappings on the client machine. When a WINS server exists, each client using NetBIOS automatically registers its name and IP address in the WINS database. Then all that is required when a client needs to lookup a server by name is to check with the WINS database (ie: no broadcasts are required, saving network bandwidth).

With an SMB client (which sounds like what Dave is) you can browse or access shared files/folders on a server (provided you can get the ip address - through DNS, manually, etc.). NetBIOS and WINS can be used, but are not required (and are discouraged by Microsoft).

[micilin]

Originally posted by AHunter3
So what's being eliminated is not NetBIOS but WINS?


In a nutshell, yep.

Hmm...then the mere fact that I was able to mount a Win2K share on my Desktop via DAVE doesn't mean much, since we still have WINS servers running. The big question would be how well I can do that in the absence of WINS servers.

The Thursby website says that Dave doesn't support Active Directory.


I would know the IP addresses of the main servers that I most need to access, and certainly their names (and the names of their shares, or I can just use C$, D$, etc). Would this mean that I would not be able to browse the list of available shares, though? I'd have to specify by name and IP, typing them in manually? (Bummer). Sounds survivable, though.


1. You can access the Drive$ shares of the servers! Then it doesn't matter what the IT guy wants to do, because it sound like you have administraive access to them. Just stop him. ;) (Don't though, I'm just kidding.)
2. I don't know if you could stilll browse a native mode Active Directory network. I also don't know if you'll still be able to authenticate properly on the domain even if you know names and IP addresses of servers. I doubt it though, Active Directory authentication is different to NT Domain authentication. (You can still authenticate off the domain if they set up a domain controller as a 'PDC emulator')
3. This is the kind of stuff that I would normally test before saying either way whether it'd work or not.



So...is SMB a term interchangeable with NetBIOS, or specifically NetBIOS over TCP (NetBT as micilin says; that's a new term for me)? Is it SMB with or withouth WINS Servers?

Can't they just pick a name and stick with it?

Technically its not interchangable, but in practise you rarely see one without the other. On a different level TCP is not interchangable with IP, the do different jobs. And you can use other protocols on top of IP, eg UDP.

And by the way, SMB is now called Common Internet File System (CIFS). SMB is so twelve months ago. :)

[Urban Ranger]

You don't want AD. Much better to go with NDS (Novell Directory Services). More robust and is cross platform.