More proof that LOTR fanboys have no grasp on reality [Archive]

Avalonian

08-28-2002, 02:04 PM

Hmm, I don't get it. Is your problem that Lord of the Rings was voted the favorite film soundtrack of all time? Or is it that people shouldn't have voted in an online poll?

Did one of your favorites lose to Shore's music for LOTR? Gosh, I'm sorry. :rolleyes:

Pretty lame rant when the object of it is left vague.

For what it's worth, I agree with the poll's results, at least to the extent that some of my personal favorite scores (Thomas Newman's Shawshank Redemption, Hans Zimmer's Black Rain, James Horner's Sneakers, etc.) would never make such a list. For films and scores with the popular appeal of Star Wars, Harry Potter, or LOTR, Howard Shore's Fellowship of the Ring score takes the big enchilada home in my book.

Wolfian

08-28-2002, 02:13 PM

Take a deep calming breath. In. Out. In. Out. Good.

Relax. Its' just a second rate poll in a third rate rag which makes "The Onion" look like "The Boston Globe."

Feel better? Good.

One quick thing: Why are you picking on "Lord of the Rings" fans? If anything this poll shows that people have short memories and tend to go with popular things. "Titanic" is on the list, but "Fiddler on the Roof" isn't. "2001" is on the list, but "A Clockwork Orange" with its' dark techno tracks isn't. If anything, you should ask a mod to close this thread before you get flamed into the next county and restart a "WTF? What were people thinking?" thread in Café Society about how skewed to the present and popular this list is.

Drastic

08-28-2002, 02:38 PM

Plus, they probably have access to chunks of wood with rusty nails in them, so you'd probably better be careful.

andros

08-28-2002, 03:23 PM

If you utter geeks spent one-tenth the time doing charity work as you did skewing online movie polls, the world would be a much better place.

Now kindly fuck off and die.

And if you got the fuck away from your computer and your Simpsons, and quit fucking worrying about what other people are doing, you might make the world a better place too.

Fuck off your own self, dumbass.

Miller

08-28-2002, 03:33 PM

Which shows a looser grasp on reality: taking part in a meaningless newspaper opinion poll, or blowing a gasket when the results don't perfectly reflect your own, personal opinion?

Squink

08-28-2002, 03:46 PM

And if you got the fuck away from your computer and your Simpsons, and quit fucking worrying about what other people are doing, you might make the world a better place too. Besides, in a perfect world, Britanny's movie (http://us.imdb.com/Title?0275022) would have won the vote hands down ;)

World Eater

08-28-2002, 04:20 PM

Shit, I was pulling for Queen of the Damned

Duck Duck Goose

08-28-2002, 04:20 PM

Geez. Oh geez, I'm watching them scroll past. Schindler's List had a soundtrack? And look at all the other movies that I dint even know had soundtracks, much less have them pop into my mind when some poll maven asks me, "What's your favorite movie soundtrack?"

Harry Potter? Jurassic Park? The Mask of Fucking Zorro?? Hanh?

Canadian Mr Shore — who picked up an Oscar for Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring — is now working on the theme for the sequel.
That oughta take him about five minutes...

I agree with the OP: There's something deeply wrong here, but I don't think it's fair to blame LOTR Fanboys. I think Saddam Hussein is behind it, which is why we need to bomb the crap out of Baghdad RIGHT NOW, to prevent any more tragedies of this nature from taking place. If we don't bomb Iraq back into the Stone Age by Halloween, then they might--horrors!--vote the Britney Movie into first place next time.

We owe it to the children of America not to let there be...a "next time".

But golly, K & K, who ARE these people, these Sun-Online people, that you have unearthed and so generously brought to Our attention?

One pic-a-choor of large-breasted blonde (with clothes on, as it is England, of course).
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2002391927,00.html

And one pic-a-choor of large-pec'd male-type person, with HUMONGOUS monkey wrench, and if you don't like the Plumber, there's a larger (!) selection on the right.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2001290023-2002371274,00.html

I like the Bib Overhalls and Saw, myself.

And, cast your vote for Britain's Best Crop Circle.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,5-2002392050,00.html

I am now adding this to my Favorites folder. Hmm--should it go under "Amusements" or "Mom's WEIRD Stuff"?

mswas

08-28-2002, 04:29 PM

In all fairness the Lord of the Rings soundtrack was so derivative and banal that it had the ability to detract from an excellent movie.

Erek

CrazyCatLady

08-29-2002, 09:51 AM

In all fairness, Kang and Kodos, if you spent a fraction of the energy you've wasted not only reading the poll, but then getting bent out of shape over it, doing charity work, the world would be a better place, too.

I don't really remember the soundrack for LOTR, but then background music has never really stuck with me all that well. That's probably why I don't buy soundtracks or read polls about soundtracks.

Space Vampire

08-29-2002, 10:04 AM

Since everybody's piling on I feel I should say that I had the same "fuckin' geeks" reaction when I saw the poll.

astorian

08-29-2002, 10:29 AM

Look, I don't agree with the results either, but why is anyone surprised?

There are certain books and films that attract passionate, hard-core audiences (J.R.R. Tolkien's and Ayn Rand's for instance). And when a non-scientific survey is taken, asking people their favorite book or favorite film, it's a safe bet that devotees of those books or movies are going to jam the phone lines (or web sites, or mail boxes, however the vote is being taken).

ANY time a web site or newspaper says, "Tell us your favorite book," you can bet that "Lord of the Rings" will be neck-and-neck with "Atlas Shrugged" and "The Fountainhead."

That's just a fact. Heck, last year, I KNEW that LOTR would win the MTV movie award, because Tolkien's fans are ardent and rabid enough to phone in votes for LOTR repeatedly.

Does that really eat at me? Am I enraged that Tolkien buffs flooded the phone lines and stuffed the ballot box, so to speak? Nah! (Not NEARLY as mad as they are that LOTR didn't win any major Oscars last year!) That would be like getting mad when Tiger Beat magazine names O Town or N Sync the best band in the world. What do you expect from that audience?

Lute Skywatcher

08-29-2002, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose
One pic-a-choor of large-breasted blonde (with clothes on, as it is England, of course).
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2002391927,00.html My immediate thought: "Click pic to enlarge"? :eek: How much bigger can she get?

RTFirefly

08-29-2002, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by Jeff Olsen
My immediate thought: "Click pic to enlarge"? :eek: How much bigger can she get? They're big enough, they should have their own names!

So, what should they be? Thelma and Louise? Betty and Veronica? The Gold Dust Twins? Let's have a little help, here! :D

Medea's Child

08-29-2002, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose
Geez. Oh geez, I'm watching them scroll past. Schindler's List had a soundtrack?

Yes, actually, and its really, really pretty. I only know this because my voice teacher had me sing the violin part to it (on vowel sounds) as a way to practice emoting and changing notes gracefully. If you can hunt down a copy of it its well worth the listen. If you like nice orchestral stuff, anyway.

Harry Potter soundtrack has its merits as well. The movie is fluffy, but the music has some serious backbone. At least that's what I tell myself when I find myself humming the main theme.

Raygun99

08-29-2002, 11:57 AM

Reading the responses here, I'm wondering if all the people blowing gaskets are actually familiar with film scores. The vast majority of the ones on the list of 30 well deserve their recognition. Are people confusing 'soundtrack' with 'mish mash of loosely connected pop hits, a la Batman Forever'? There's a couple in there I haven't heard but as a film score enthusiast, when the list scrolls down there's nothing that sticks out as 'How the Hell did that get on there?'

Now, I certainly wouldn't put LOTR on the top of my own list (and the omission of Last of the Mohicans is a black spot on it) but I'm certainly not surprised at it placement; it's good, it's popular (of course those are two different things), it's recent and won the Oscar. Are people not familiar with the nature of online polls?

DDG, I'm curious as to your reasoning behind the films you singled out for surprise. Have you listened to the scores for Schindler's List, Jurassic Park or Mask of Zorro? All are terrific. Is there some kind of "well I don't think Zorro is an important enough movie" bias going on there?

andros

08-29-2002, 12:16 PM

They're big enough, they should have their own names!

So, what should they be?

Howsabout Manny and Moe . . . 'cos to move them anywhere you'd need a Jack.

tdn

08-29-2002, 12:18 PM

Duck, I know you didn't mean to piss anyone off with your post, but you pissed me off. Par for the course for the Pit.

Keep in mind that since I studied film scoring, I tend to pay more attention to scores than most people. So it cheeses my enchilada when people make comments like...

Schindler's List had a soundtrack?

Um... Er... Uh...

I'm speechless.

Yeah, there was a little soundtrack there. Just a wee bit of one. Featuring a little known fiddle player named Isaac Stern.

And look at all the other movies that I dint even know had soundtracks

Nature of the beast, unfortunately. The best scores often go unnoticed. Which makes the amount of work that goes into it very underappreciated.

That oughta take him about five minutes...

You don't know a hell of a lot about the craft, do you?

As far as the OP goes, I think LotR was an OK score, but listen to Shore's score for The Fly. Much more powerful.

Other favorites you've never heard:

Twilight Zone: The Movie
Star Trek II
The Boys from Brazil
North by Northwest
Psycho
Witness
Unbreakable
The Sixth Sense

and of course the incomperable

Citizen Kane

tdn

08-29-2002, 12:24 PM

Bravo, Raygun. You said everything I failed to in my post.

I think far too many people confuse the score with the film. If Jurassic Park sucked, then the score must have sucked also. If the film was great (or popular), the score must be good, too.

Not so.

I also wonder how many people actually think that people like James Horner write songs for Celine "barf" Dion. And judge a score based on that.

Coldfire

08-29-2002, 12:27 PM

The Exorcist
The Godfather

All done in 5 minutes. Yup.

Avalonian

08-29-2002, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by tdn
I think far too many people confuse the score with the film. If Jurassic Park sucked, then the score must have sucked also. If the film was great (or popular), the score must be good, too.

Well said, tdn. One of my favorite examples is The Rocketeer... I really disliked the film, but the score is one of my favorites. And for the reverse, while I quite enjoyed most of Attack of the Clones (which surprised me as much as anyone), I think the score for it is one of Williams' worst ever.

Originally posted by tdn
I also wonder how many people actually think that people like James Horner write songs for Celine "barf" Dion. And judge a score based on that.

I think that happens far too often... Horner is an excellent composer in his own right (probably my personal favorite), but I think that a composer's skill gets eclipsed when there is a "popular" song on the soundtrack. It's unfortunate, really, when as my wife pointed out (and I agreed completely), film score composers could be considered as modern versions of the classical composers of previous centuries.

I like your list of favorite scores, tdn, especially Star Trek II and Unbreakable.

Some of my personal favorites...

Thomas Newman - Pay it Forward, In the Bedroom, The Shawshank Redemption, American Beauty

Hans Zimmer - Gladiator, Green Card, Black Rain

James Horner - Sneakers, Thunderheart, Name of the Rose, The Spitfire Grill

For those who have "didn't know" these movies had soundtracks, check out the "soundtrack" section of your local Wherehouse or Tower. You might be surprised... there's some great music there, and a lot of it.

Maybe this topic should be moved to "Cafe Society" after all.

tdn

08-29-2002, 01:28 PM

Thomas Newman - Pay it Forward, In the Bedroom, The Shawshank Redemption, American Beauty

American Beauty? I'm ashamed to say I don't remember that one.

Pay it Forward? Brilliant. It gave the film such a rich texture. 'Specially that really percussive canonical bit.

Shawshank? And Bedroom? Same composer? Wow. I just saw In the Bedroom last week, and kept thinking "This sounds a lot like Shawshank."

Personally, I thought ItB was a pretty sucky film. YMMV. But the score was wonderful.

And who is Thomas Newman? He's new on my radar. Any relation to Randy and Alfred?

Raygun99

08-29-2002, 01:38 PM

Alfred's son, Randy's cousin.

I like your mention of the James Newton Howard scores for Sixth Sense and Unbreakable. Signs may be the best of the three yet for his collaberations with Shyamalan.

fluiddruid

08-29-2002, 01:39 PM

Personally, I found the LOTR soundtrack enchanting. There were some questionable bits (most notably the fanfare when Elrond announces the Fellowship of the Ring), but I thought it was quite well done overall. The Hobbiton theme, for example, just worked beautifully. Was it the best of all time? Probably not, but it was a recent success with a lot of online support. I hope that doesn't make me a "LOTR fan-boy". I'm not even a boy.

I like movie scores from fantasies and historical epics. I thought that Braveheart certainly should have scored higher on the list, and I wished that a lot of others should have made it (Willow, for example -- the opening theme is just amazing! And yes, the omission of Last of the Mohicans is a crime). I won't lie -- I am a Tolkien fan, and I thought that the first film was well done, though of course I would have done some things differently.

But Christ, get over yourself. Have you listened to some of the scores? Mask of "Fucking" Zorro was a shitty movie, but the score is done by James Horner and is actually quite good. Titanic was a lame movie, but the score was excellent. Jurassic Park was a fun movie with little redeeming artistic value, but the score was outstandingly done.

But, gee, I guess because I took two minutes writing this post, I'm a jerk because I could have been working at a soup kitchen during that time. Take the beam out of your own eye, asshole. How long do you spend online each day?

Avalonian

08-29-2002, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by tdn
And who is Thomas Newman? He's new on my radar. Any relation to Randy and Alfred?

I honestly don't know! *laughs* He's not completely new to the game, but he's new compared to vets like Horner or Goldsmith.

Newman also scored Scent of a Woman (which was pretty good, though obviously early work), and Meet Joe Black (another favorite I forgot to mention), and more recently Road to Perdition, which I have not heard or seen yet. And if you've seen the Fox show "Boston Public," he composed the title music for that.

Anyway, I've found his scores to be quite compelling. I love his use of strings, and his willingness to try different instruments for a unique effect. If you liked Pay it Forward for that, then try American Beauty... it's got some really great bits. Be sure to get the score, though, not the compilation album.

I admire his music for its richness... it's dramatic, but seldom overdone.

Oh, and one other favorite I didn't mention... though many of Danny Elfman's scores sound alike, he does branch out now and again. His music for Good Will Hunting (hard to find, but worth the effort) and Dolores Claiborne are a couple of his real gems.

Hodge

08-29-2002, 03:43 PM

I'll admit that LOTR is far from the best, heck it's not even Shore's best (Silence of the Lambs and Crash are both better), but I still found it quite enjoyable and a couple of its themes were bouncing around in my brain for days after viewing the DVD.

Many of the others listed deserve the mention, but WTF is with all the John Williams nominations? I've always thought he was over-rated and, in particular, I found Harry Potter to be overbearing, manipulative and downright annoying.

Actually, the fact that Bernard Herrmann, Nino Rota and Jerry Goldsmith are missing completely annoys me more than the inclusion of LOTR

tdn

08-29-2002, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by Hodge
Actually, the fact that Bernard Herrmann, Nino Rota and Jerry Goldsmith are missing completely annoys me more than the inclusion of LOTR

Maybe not from the poll in the OP, but I mentioned films by Herrmann and Goldsmith in my little list above.

I would have mentioned Goldsmith by name, but his score for Star Trek V grates on my nerves like sandpaper on my brain. The out of tune blasting English horn was too much.

And I don't think anyone mentioned Elmer Bernstein yet.

No one's mentioned it yet, but wasn't On the Waterfront supposed to have the worst score ever?

tdn

08-29-2002, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by Coldfire
The Exorcist
The Godfather

All done in 5 minutes. Yup.

Question: I detect sarcasm in this post, but I can't tell where it is. I never saw Godfather, so I don't know.

But did Exorcist even have a score? Last time I saw it (maybe a year ago) I sort of remember being surprised that there was no music at all. Except of course for Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells, repeated ad infinitum.

In which case it really was scored in 5 minutes.

Am I mistaken?

Crusoe

08-29-2002, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose
But golly, K & K, who ARE these people, these Sun-Online people, that you have unearthed and so generously brought to Our attention?

One pic-a-choor of large-breasted blonde (with clothes on, as it is England, of course).
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2002391927,00.html

I am now adding this to my Favorites folder. Hmm--should it go under "Amusements" or "Mom's WEIRD Stuff"?
Remove it from your favourites immediately!

The Sun is a British tabloid newspaper owned by that nice Rupert Murdoch. It's usually full of bigoted, xenophobic right-wing polemic and enough righteous little Englander indignation and gratuitous soft-porn to satisfy the evolutionarily-challenged parts of the country. The football coverage is decent, but it's not a newspaper known for its objectivity or accuracy (and are you surprised, it being a Murdoch rag?).

The large-breasted nymphette (36F, if you're really interested) is one Kerry McFadden, formerly Kerry Katona, a topless model (from The Sun, no less) turned girl band singer, who left Atomic Kitten as they started to do well in the charts to marry one Mr McFadden from an Irish boy-band. Just a little useless information for you there.

Do not believe the spin anyone places on anything in that rag.

Crusoe

08-29-2002, 04:43 PM

SPOOFE

08-29-2002, 05:33 PM

If you utter geeks spent one-tenth the time doing charity work as you did skewing online movie polls, the world would be a much better place.

Now kindly fuck off and die.
Personally, I liked the FOTR soundtrack.

So, kindly eat out my asshole and call it candy, you smattering of cum-laden hobbit vomit.

Duck Duck Goose

08-29-2002, 06:25 PM

Well, excuuuuuuse me, people, for paying more attention to the movie itself than to its sound track... :rolleyes: Great, now I've pissed off all the music majors, they're gonna come after me with their flute cases... :D

Crusoe: You say "bigoted, xenophobic right-wing polemic, righteous little Englander indignation, and gratuitous soft-porn" like it's a bad thing.

Okay, I'll put it in "Mom's WEIRD Stuff" then... :D

Sublight

08-29-2002, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by Wolfian
Relax. Its' just a second rate poll in a third rate rag which makes "The Onion" look like "The Boston Globe."

Goodness, I wasn't aware that The Onion had gone into such a decline! Was Jim Anchower caught plagarizing internet spam? :D

matt_mcl

08-29-2002, 11:49 PM

Yea, this from a guy who names himself after aliens from either TOS or Simpsons depending...

BTW, Michael Nyman's "The Heart Seeks Pleasure First" from The Piano is one of my favourite classical pieces, period.

Coldfire

08-30-2002, 02:53 AM

Originally posted by tdn
Question: I detect sarcasm in this post, but I can't tell where it is. I never saw Godfather, so I don't know.

But did Exorcist even have a score? Last time I saw it (maybe a year ago) I sort of remember being surprised that there was no music at all. Except of course for Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells, repeated ad infinitum.

In which case it really was scored in 5 minutes.

Am I mistaken? Your first mistake is never seeing The Godfather, and your second is assuming that Tubular Bells was composed in 5 minutes. Does that help? :)

Coldfire

08-30-2002, 02:53 AM

Oh, and agreed with matt on Michael Nyman. The score for The Piano is breathtaking.

amanset

08-30-2002, 03:00 AM

Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose
One pic-a-choor of large-breasted blonde (with clothes on, as it is England, of course).
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2002391927,00.html

Whoah. Someone's in for a surprise if they ever see a print copy of the "newspaper" then.

Hint: See the link at the top that says "Page 3"? If you're not at work then click on it.

jjimm

08-30-2002, 04:19 AM

Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose
One pic-a-choor of large-breasted blonde (with clothes on, as it is England, of course).Duck Duck Goose, I must just correct you on an common and incorrect stereotype you have perpetrated regarding English propriety - something that is based on some.

We English have way more prurience in our mainstream media than you chaps over in Illinois. The paper version of The Sun invariably has a topless woman on page 3 of the paper (and thesun.co.uk has a sister site that displays these ladies - the link is on the lower-left-hand side of the page you viewed). Other tabloids, notably The Sport, are little more than daily soft-porn rags. We also have nudity on network channels (after 9pm) - e.g. Six Feet Under is shown unexpurgated on our national terrestrial Channel 4, beginning at 10pm. WRT general media, we're a lot filthier than you Americans, though you beat us hands-down on private stuff.

I'm not saying this is a good thing, but it is true.

jjimm

08-30-2002, 04:21 AM

Oh yeah, what amanset said... How come I didn't see that post before?

The end of that sentence should read: "something that is based on some Hollywood directors' preconceptions and misconceptions, no doubt."

Coldfire

08-30-2002, 04:22 AM

When it comes to unlimited public nudity on state sponsored television, only one country can be the best. :D

Crusoe

08-30-2002, 04:25 AM

France?

Coldfire

08-30-2002, 04:30 AM

Pffffft. France.

No.

Hint: the country where everything that's considered immoral or dangerous by the rest of the world, is legal. :)

Well, except speeding of course. I mean, speeding's worse than killing someone, right?

SPOOFE

08-30-2002, 04:48 AM

Hint: the country where everything that's considered immoral or dangerous by the rest of the world, is legal.
Aha! Mexico!

Crusoe

08-30-2002, 04:49 AM

Hmm. You couldn't possibly be referring to Holland? Nahh.

pldennison

08-30-2002, 07:26 AM

OK, here's the lowdown on the score for The Exorcist: There isn't one. There was one, an amazing one composed by Lalo Schifrin, but William Friedkin rejected it. He thought it lacked the subtlety and tension that the movie needed, so he decided to assemble the score from existing works. The bulk of it ended up being work from Polish composer Krzysztof Penderecki, and is simply amazing. If you buy the CD that accompanied the reissue of the movie two years ago, you can hear pieces of Schifrin's score.

Funny story about the Jurassic Park score: My dad and I were at a movie earlier this year, and before the movie there was an ad for the upcoming Oscar broadcast. I recognized the music in the ad immediately -- it was the main theme from JP. Pretty funny.

tdn

08-30-2002, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose
Great, now I've pissed off all the music majors, they're gonna come after me with their flute cases

Shows what you know. I don't even have a flute case. But I do have a baton case. Full of sharp pointy sticks. Great for poking out eyes.

Hey, how else am I going to get anyone to look them?

Jonathan Chance

08-30-2002, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by RTFirefly
They're big enough, they should have their own names!

So, what should they be? Thelma and Louise? Betty and Veronica? The Gold Dust Twins? Let's have a little help, here! :D

I knew this girl in high school who, no foolin', referred to hers as 'pride' and 'joy'.

Hell, that's what she made me call them. And really, who was I to say no?

iampunha

08-30-2002, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose
And one pic-a-choor of large-pec'd male-type person, with HUMONGOUS monkey wrench, and if you don't like the Plumber, there's a larger (!) selection on the right.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2001290023-2002371274,00.html

Am I spoiled, or are none of those guys particularly impressive in the muscle department?

SPOOFE

08-31-2002, 12:19 AM

I guess you're spoiled, 'Punny... I thought that the "toned-but-not-hugely-buff" look was what was preferable.

Then again, my Hetero Shields prevent me from having an accurate grasp on the subjects.

FriarTed

08-31-2002, 11:42 AM

ED WOOD

Kang and Kodos

08-31-2002, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by pldennison
OK, here's the lowdown on the score for The Exorcist: There isn't one. There was one, an amazing one composed by Lalo Schifrin, but William Friedkin rejected it. He thought it lacked the subtlety and tension that the movie needed, so he decided to assemble the score from existing works. The bulk of it ended up being work from Polish composer Krzysztof Penderecki, and is simply amazing. If you buy the CD that accompanied the reissue of the movie two years ago, you can hear pieces of Schifrin's score.

Didn't Schifrin's score for THE EXORCIST become the score for THE AMITYVILLE HORROR?