Citizenship Not A Requirement For Military Service?

[plnnr]

I spent a summer working for the Marine Corps as a cook at OCS. While there I distinctly remember working with a Marine who had a German accent. I never thought to ask him, but I now assume that he was, in fact, from Germany.

This cite, http://www.shusterman.com/gulfwar.html, says that US citizenship can be obtained through military service.

WTF? I never knew that non-US citizens were permitted to serve in the US military. That seems to be pretty lax.

Do other countries permit non-citizens to serve in their militaries?

[Ringo]

Like the French Foreign Legion, perhaps?

[UDS]

Indeed they do, and why should they not?

Some (most notably the French, but there are others) have entire units in which the commissioned officers are citizens but all other ranks are non-citizens.

[plnnr]

I'm aware of the French Foreign Legion, but always thought of them as a sort of entity all unto themselves (I read an autobiography of a Legionairre and he reports that he felt the same way - the Legion was French in name only).

Why require citizenship of soilders? Well, right now I don't know that I"d feel particuilarly comfortable with an Iraqi national with his finger on the trigger of an ICBM.

[UDS]

Non-nationals don't have a right to serve - they can be refused if they present a security risk, for example. There is (rightly) no presumption that a non-national does present a security risk (just as, I assume, there is no assumption that a citizen does not).

[plnnr]

I agree that the presumption should be that no security risk is present by virtue of citizenship; however, it still strikes me as odd that a foreign national can serve in the military of another country.

[Acsenray]

The Gurkha regiments of the British Army are comprised of Nepalis. This is, of course, a remnant of an Indian Army whose officers were British and who soldiers were overwhelmingly non-British.

Armies and wars have been around a lot longer than the modern nation-state. I suppose the precedent arose in days when they didn't have the same concept of citizenship that we have and they were glad for anyone's help. I suppose it continued because it was seen as being useful. If allowing non-citizens to serve has not resulted in any actual problems, why eliminate based on speculation?

[mok]

When I was in the US Army (about 15 years ago) there were quite a few soldiers in my unit who were not US citizens. Most commonly they were residents of a US Territory.

In many cases, being born in a US Territory did not qualify one to automatically become a citizen. But US military service was certainly a logical way for them to gain citizenship. And from the US point of view, these folks were loyal and often patriotic -- even though technically they were not citizens.

Examples at the time included folks from Guam and the Marianas islands.*

*I suppose that citizenship laws may have changed for those territories since then. At the time being born on Guam or Saipan, e.g., did not make you a citizen.

[JRDelirious]

And it fits the whole "immigrant nation" ethos -- you get an immigrant motivated to put his life on the line for the new country, in exchange you make an expedited naturalization process a benefit of service (the Foreign Legion, IIRC, makes citizenship a retirement benefit -- dunno if they've eased on it).

Applying for citizenship requires 5 years legal residency for civilians; military service, until last year, would cut that down to 3 years in active duty in peacetime and any time in wartime-as-defined-by-the-statute; this last July the "any time" provision was extended to anyone who has served honorably since 9/11/01 (http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jul2002/n07302002_200207303.html) . The non-citizen still must comply with all other INS requirements including, first, being a legal permanent resident. Not only that, but males in this group of the proper age (for example, the born-abroad son of a legal immigrant) must register with Selective Service and may be called up.

Security clearances, command positions and the such would be screened case-by-case anyway, some clearances ARE reserved for citizens.



Other examples of non-citizen participation: the Gurkha regiments in the British and Indian armies. Before the US joined in the World Wars, many Americans would join Brit/Canadian outfits to get into the fight. Under modern US law, you are not presumed to renounce your citizenship by mere service, specially if it's a country at peace with us, or an ally.

[JRDelirious]

mok: Nowadays Guam and the Marianas have citizenship (Though in the Marianas still not everyone got it automatically). The Samoans are still non-citizen nationals.

[Monty]

There is also a group of Enlisted Servicemembers who are not legal residents of the United States. They're the ones who enlisted in Olongapo, Republic of the Philippines under the treaty provision between the United States and the Philippines. Their immigration status is Nonimmigrant Aliens. That treaty, btw, has expired.

[Eva Luna]

Also, refugees, asylees, and permanent residents are required to regsister for the draft just like citizens. Failure to do so can bar them from naturalization down the road.

[Mort Furd]

In technical school in the US Air Force back in 1987, we had a Jamaican in our class. I seem to remember having been told that non-citizens weren't stationed outside of the states.
I always felt sorry for the poor guy. The winter we were there, Sheppard Air base in Wichita, Texas had a pretty hefty snowstorm. Six inches, I think it was, and we marched across base from the barracks to the school in it. The wind was blowing like a sumbitch, so we all had snow plastered to one side. Gracie had never seen snow before. It was quite a shock for the poor guy. That afternoon, it warmed up into the 70's, and all the snow melted. We marched back to the barracks through puddles of standing (ice cold) water.
To top things off, his first permanent assignment was Minot airbase - Minot is is North Dakota.

[Mort Furd]

In technical school in the US Air Force back in 1987, we had a Jamaican in our class. I seem to remember having been told that non-citizens weren't stationed outside of the states.
I always felt sorry for the poor guy. The winter we were there, Sheppard Air base in Wichita, Texas had a pretty hefty snowstorm. Six inches, I think it was, and we marched across base from the barracks to the school in it. The wind was blowing like a sumbitch, so we all had snow plastered to one side. Gracie had never seen snow before. It was quite a shock for the poor guy. That afternoon, it warmed up into the 70's, and all the snow melted. We marched back to the barracks through puddles of standing (ice cold) water.
To top things off, his first permanent assignment was Minot airbase - Minot is in North Dakota.

[Horseflesh]

I might point out the KATUSAs (Korean Augmentee to The US Army) that serve side by side with our soldiers stationed in South Korea. These are young Korean men serving out their military obligation training under the US Army. I presume the concept is that it would be very handy to have a section of the local population who is at once both familiar with the language and culture of a nearby enemy nation and US military doctrine.

Another anecdote: While going through basic training in Ft. Bliss, TX, I frequently saw an entire platoon of soldiers marching and singing cadence entirely in Spanish. Our drill sergeants told us that they did not speak English yet and that indeed some of them were Mexican immigrants trying to obtain citizenship through military service.

[UDS]

Non-nationals don't have a right to serve - they can be refused if they present a security risk, for example. There is (rightly) no presumption that a non-national does present a security risk (just as, I assume, there is no assumption that a citizen does not).

[UDS]

I swear I didn't post that a second time!

UDS

[UDS]

I swear I didn't post that a second time!

UDS

[Monty]

Mort: Foreign nationals who are enlisted (warrant and commissioned officers, and E9, must be US Citizens) in the US military are routinely assigned overseas. The big restriction is that they may not be assigned to the ship's company of a nuclear-powered vessel.

[Bryan Ekers]

Quite a few Canadians joined the U.S. Army (becoming mercenaries, one assumes) during the Vietnam war, and for years afterward there were legal battles and whatnot over health benfits.

Check them out here (http://pages.infinit.net/avvq/), here (http://members.tripod.com/cvvma/) and here. (http://www.glanmore.org/cdncas/memorialair.html) The last one is heartbreaking.

[Milton De La Warre]

Some countries have specific treaties that allow certian numbers (quotas) of their folks to join the US forces. Germany may or may not be one, but the UK is, and also I think Canada. As pointed out above, the PI was as well but may no longer be.

(Slight hijack) Then there is the whole issue of exchange personnel. It is common for allied forces too have personnel serve with each other's military to get to know how they operate. US personnel also serve with other nations as exchange personnel. In such cases, they are not "in" the other nations' military, but rather only "with" it. They continue to wear their own countries' uniforms and get paid by them.

[Mr. Moto]

On my ship (USS Monterey 1996-1998) we had on board three foreign citizens. One was a Scot, the rest Filipino.

We go places in these ships - they all served overseas.

None of them had a job that required a security clearance, and they had restrictions placed on their movement (escorts and such) when the ship was in Newport News Shipyard. The shipyard restrictions were a corporate rather than a naval policy.

[Tars Tarkas]

My grandfather got his citizenship fighting in World War I. I just assumed everyone knew you coud get citizenship that way.

[Tranquilis]

Not only are foreign nationals permitted in our service, they often do exceedingly well in it.

Monty, while attached to SUBDEVGRU ONE, we had a Dutch national as an officer on board my boat. Yup, fully cleared with access levels I'm not even allowed to type. No, he wasn't on 'loan' from his country's service; He held a Commission in the US Navy, was a graduate of NNPS Orlando. When I checked in, he was the MPA; Very nuclear!

Aboard the Tender, we had a Scottish Quartermaster. It was a pure delight to hear him give the morning Time Check from the Pilot House. I can't even begin to count the number of Philippeno nationals I served with. EM1 Navarro was not only a Mexican National, he lived south of Tijuana, crossing the border twice a day to get between the boat and home. Intaglio had a Canadian in her division.

As a Recruiter, I had a Jamaican Supply Petty Officer.

Foriegn nationals serve the US with distinction, all the time.

[Monty]

I gotta say you may've misremembered, Tranq. He may've been a dual national, in which case he's a US citizen.

[Tranquilis]

Monty: Nope. Checked it at the time, because he was such strange bird. Not particlarly popular (we used to call him "Og, the Sea Bass), he transferred about a year after I checked aboard. Not the norm at all, but real none-the-less. Hit my e-mail, and I'll give you more detail.

[Charlie Tan]

The facts have been laid on the table, so I'll just add an anecdote of my own:
As an exchange student in Chicago, in '85, I wanted some souvenirs that weren't the usual crap you can get down by the Water Tower. There was an Army Recruiting office a couple o' blocks from where i lived (IIRC on Irving Park). I went there to get some "I want YOU for U.S. Army posters and stuff. Not being an Army buff at all, it just seemed cool at the time.
I got to talking to the recruiting officer, sitting there, being bored. He - jokingly and hearing my accent - said: "Why don't you sign up?" I pointed out, not only my lack of citizenship, but even a green card. He explained to me that the green card would be automatic - even for a Swede - if I signed up. How else would I get payed. Citizenship would follow. Claimed he: "If you're willing to die for this country, I think you're proving your worth as a citizen."

No I didn't sign up. But I got lots and lots of fun "Be all you can be" stuff.

[Monty]

It's been a while since the military was allowed to sponsor folks (i.e., "automatic green card"). The requirement now, and for some time, is that the prospective enlistee be a lawful resident (US citizen or green card holder) of the US.

[gazpacho]

Wasn't the a scandal during the Vietnam war about non US citizens being assigned to combat units at greater rates than US citizens? My old boss who was from England His family moved to the states and he was drafted during the Vietnam war before he became a citizen. He says he was in a combat unit and the scandal broke and he was transferred to a non combat unit.

So I don't think that being a citizen was necessary for serving in the US military in the past.

[RickJay]

While serving in the Canadian Armed Forces, I had two foreigners on my basic training, one an American (who became my best friend,) the other a West German (at the time there was a difference.)

It was harder for them to get security clearances, but not impossible. The American eventually became a dual citizen; he has a letter from the State Department saying he wouldn't lose his U.S. citizenship.

[Monty]

It's never been a requirement, gazpacho, to hold US citizenship to serve in the military. As I've mentioned a number of times on this site, Enlisted members may be of any citizenship.