Cable or DSL?

[Rhythmdvl]

Hey folks. Just found affordable ADSL in my neighborhood. Double-checked cable service page and after several months of waiting, it too is now available. So my obvious question is …which to go with?

Has anyone had their lightning fast cable modem grind to a turtleish crawl after their neighbors joined the cable-modem bandwagon? Any experience with both out there? Has anyone had experience with a slow cable connection and an ADSL connection? Was either noticeably faster/slower? Thanks.


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Once in a while you can get shown the light
in the strangest of places
if you look at it right…

[kbutcher]

I have a cable connection, while my father has DSL... I much prefer cable and would never let it go. The DSL is fast, but in all my experience, only about half as fast as my cable modem. With DSL I see downloads SOMETIMES hitting 60KBPS, while I consistently get 150KBPS from good websites with my cable modem. (and up to 300KBPS from AT&T sites, as they are my ISP)

Perhaps People in other areas have a different experience, so I will say this report comes from the Seattle area.

[JoeyBlades]

The IS organization at my company sponsor both DSL and cable connection services for telecommuting. We are a high tech company that relies on the transfer of large amounts of data. They claim that DSL is always preferred due to better performance over cable. I have also heard this from a number of users who switched from cable to DSL. Me, I'm stuck with cable for a number of reasons, so I cannot give first hand testimony.

[Minxsmom]

Cable is not at all secure. You can click on the Network Neighborhood icon and open up all of your neighbor's hard drives, well, all of those that are also on the cable.

DSL goes right from your house to the DSlam and into the internet. It also provides a dynamic IP address, I'm not sure about the cable. It is much more secure. If you were to keep anything personal on your computer - bank account numbers, etc. you'd want the security that DSL provides.

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Princess of the Time and Space Continuum since 1969 (upgraded to Goddess 01/07/00) =^..^=

Yes, I did see the plan for the bypass. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard' - Arthur Dent

[Crystalguy]

I have ADSL from Bell South. My system required the installation of a modem supplied by Bell South. When the ADSL is up and running, the performance is great. When the ADSL service goes out, I am off line until it is restored. Restoring the service once took three days to accomplish. Because of the nature of the signal from the telephone line, using a dial up connection is not an option. Connecting the phone line to a conventional modem would result in destroying that modem at the very least. You might want to consider that aspect, unless you have a back-up computer and an extra phone line.

[Glenoled]

as far as hooking up a DSL cord to a modem, it's my understanding that DSL uses the 2 wires not used by the regular phone service.
so couldn't one just take a 2-conductor phone extension, and hook it up to a splitter, and hook that to your modem, without having the other 2 wires interfere?
also, in another thread somewhere, the site www.freexdsl.com (http://www.freexdsl.com) was mentionned... I don't think it's available in Canada yet, but it is, in most of the US... if you want a cheap (free) alternative to fast connection, that might well be worth looking into...


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I don't suffer from insanity...
I enjoy every minute of it!

[Crystalguy]

I am far from expert on the modem situation. I was told that the frequency of the signal transmitted to and from the internet was high enough to zap the modem. So, when the ADSL service is down, I sit and wait for it to be restored.

[handy]

DSL isn't too fast going up. So if you upload a lot you might want cable.

Also, if your DSL is out, you can still call your ISP the pots regular way, at least mine.

[Kilgore Trout]

Originally posted by Minxsmom:
Cable is not at all secure. You can click on the Network Neighborhood icon and open up all of your neighbor's hard drives, well, all of those that are also on the cable.

can somebody confirm this?



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*what is essential is invisible to the eye -the fox*

[gazpacho]

You have to share your drives for other people to see them through network neighborhood. Go to help in the file explorer and look up sharing to find out about this. You are probably still not secure if you are not sharing but at least you are not broadcasting that your files are available.

[Whammo]

Originally posted by Crystalguy:
I have ADSL from Bell South. My system required the installation of a modem supplied by Bell South. When the ADSL is up and running, the performance is great. When the ADSL service goes out, I am off line until it is restored. Restoring the service once took three days to accomplish. Because of the nature of the signal from the telephone line, using a dial up connection is not an option. Connecting the phone line to a conventional modem would result in destroying that modem at the very least. You might want to consider that aspect, unless you have a back-up computer and an extra phone line.

I am a ADSL computer tech for installers of BellSouth ADSL. Not the customer number for tech support 800-321-adsl, but the number the installers call if they have trouble making a connection. The first part of what you say is true... when ADSL is up and running it is the best in its price range... cable modems dont usually cut it because of bandwidth sharing in the lan. But when it is not working it is the biggest pain in the ass known, trust me I know... the fact of the matter is that there are SO MANY VARIABLES with adsl it impossible to know if you are a good candidate for the service until you are installed and running. Customers are either extreamly happy or dissapointed... BellSouth.net promises 256k download minimum, if you are going faster then that and are not satisfied you have your choice of staying or disconnecting service. The average however is over 1Meg.
The SECOND part of what you say is completely false!!! you can have a separate dial up connection with ADSL on bellsouth with NO PROBLEM! It can should be configured in the "network configuration" with no problem UNLESS!!!! the dial up connection you are wanting is with AOL.... AOL is like a vampire with ADSL and will suck the life out of it... but this is mostly and installation problem and if AOL was removed before installation it can usually be reinstalled after ADSL is installed without much problem.

If you have more problems or have more questions feel free to email me and I will do my best to research and answer your questions with NO SWB bias!!! Assuming they dont find out Im doing this and fire me :) Dont laugh... I have had internal email suggesting more.

[Whammo]

Originally posted by Kilgore Trout:
can somebody confirm this?




if you turn off file sharing this can not be done.... with ADSL this can not be done anyway.

[Whammo]

Besides that BellSouth Provides Dial up Service along side the ADSLl service you have both choices available.

[JonF]

I have 768/384 ADSL from Flashcom (http://www.flashcom.com/), and cable modem is not available in my town, although I've used them at a couple of friends' houses.

The Flashcom installation experience was horrible, although Covad's physical installation was fine. (I think Flashcom has switched away from Covad (http://www.covad.com/) for physical installation since then). The service has been fine since then.

I get full speed out of the line when the server at the other end and the rest of the Internet can do it. Flashcom's news server is slow compared to Media One's, and never gives me data at full speed.

Cable modem bandwidth is shared, which makes it difficult to define exactly what you'll get. I have seen Media One downloads significantly slower than mine, at houses where the cable segment is near the maximum number of users and at times when a lot of them were likely to be on line.

You might want to check out DSL Reports (http://www.dslreports.com/). It would certainly scare you away from Flashcom, although I am satisfied after getting over the initial hurdle.

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jrf

[JonF]

Cable is not at all secure. You can click on the Network Neighborhood icon and open up all of your neighbor's hard drives, well, all of those that are also on the cable.

Current systems are more secure. You can also run a local firewall such as Black ICE (http://www.networkice.com/Products/BlackICE/default.htm). Gibson Research (http://www.grc.com) has some interesting tests and discussion pages.

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jrf

[JonF]

DSL ... provides a dynamic IP address

A mistyping? DSL provides a fixed IP address. I am pretty sure cable does also.

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jrf

[JonF]

Cable is not at all secure. ... can somebody confirm this?

As-installed, neither DSL nor cable is secure. Since cable modems share resources with others on the same loop, as-installed cable is usually less secure thatn DSL.

If you turn off file and printer sharing, then as-installed cable and as-installed DSL are equivalent security. You can also leave file and printer sharing on, but make sure that you have installed the NetBEUI protocol and turn off the binding of TCP/IP to file and printer sharing. (NetBEUI is better suited to such tasks than TCP/IP anyway).

To get a secure system with either cable or DSL, you need a firewall.

Oh, in case anyone asks, NetBEUI = netBIOS Enhanced User Interface.

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jrf

[JonF]

DSL isn't too fast going up. So if you upload a lot you might want cable.

It depends. Especially on what service you buy.

SDSL (symmetric DSL), which costs more, is just as fast up as down.

ADSL (Asymmetric DSL) is slower up than down.

You can get up to something like 7 Mbps in both directions if you are willing to pay for it.

My 768Kbps down / 384Kbps up ADSL line costs $80/month. I am aware that cable is noticably cheaper; I can't get cable, so there's no choice to make.

Also, many cable systems do not let you have all the available bandwidth when it's available. Many restrict download to 600Kbps or so and uploads to lower figures. Check the fine print.

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jrf

[JonF]

make sure that you have installed the NetBEUI protocol and turn off the binding of TCP/IP to file and printer sharing

Oh, and make sure that NetBEUI is not bound to the NIC (Network Interface Card) that is connected to the cable model or DSL modem/router.

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jrf

[WillGolfForFood]

Originally posted by Crystalguy:
Because of the nature of the signal from the telephone line, using a dial up connection is not an option. Connecting the phone line to a conventional modem would result in destroying that modem at the very least.

I'm genuinely confused - where did you hear this?

The ADSL service on your phone uses high-frequency signals that are completely ignored by the voice portion of your phone system. That's why you can use your phone at the same time as you're using your DSL service. The presence or absece of ADSL should have absolutely no effect on a voice-line modem.

My friends who have Bell Atlantic-supplied DSL all use modems when their DSL service goes out - on he same phone line that their DSL service is on - without any problems.

- - -

Having said that, I have to admit that I can't test this scenario directly. My DSL service is supplied by COVAD (because Bell Atlantic claimed that I was too far away from the CO to get DSL), and until recently Bell Atlantic wouldn't let third-party DSL services run on BA's existing phone lines. BA forced COVAD to obtain (and pay BA roughly $20/month for) a new "phone line" to my house that has no voice service on it. The FCC has since forced the phone companies to treat third-party DSL suppliers the same way they treat their own in-house DSL suppliers, so this wouldn't have happened if my COVAD service were being installed now.

[WillGolfForFood]

Oops - I see that b_line12 has already addresed this issue. Maybe I should read the entire thread before responding to a particular message next time.

[Una Persson]

Originally posted by JonF:
A mistyping? DSL provides a fixed IP address. I am pretty sure cable does also.


Actually, DSL provides a Dynamic IP address with the base package. To get a static IP address costs much more per month, since they assume the real reason you would want a static IP is to run a Web server. Don't know about cable though.

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The Prince: "Did you kill Jahamaraj Jah?"
Lady: "Yes."
The Prince: "My Gods! Why?"
Lady: "His existence offended me."

[handy]

I was hoping by now there would be some of those internal DSL modems [$100] & $20/month dsl [not always on]. Anyone seen anything happening in this area?

ba.internet newsgroup has tons of messages on DSL. ba=bay area [SF]

[Crystalguy]

Originally posted by B_Line12:
Besides that BellSouth Provides Dial up Service along side the ADSLl service you have both choices available.

Okay, I had a BellSouth account before I got ADSL, so my dial up account is still active. As I do have a second phone line and a second computer, I use the dial up number with that machine when ADSL goes out. After the last ADSL outage, I called the "Technical Support" people at (888) 321-ADSL and asked specifically if I could use the dial up connection with the computer that is connected to ADSL when the ADSL service was down. The person I spoke with was adamant that I could not and that damage would result if I did.
For what it is worth, I telecommute for a company on the west coast of Florida and the whole point of my having ADSL was for staying constantly connected to their network. I don't know if that is relevant or not.

[Crystalguy]

WillGolfForFood said:

The ADSL service on your phone uses high-frequency signals that are completely ignored by the voice portion of your phone system. That's why you can use your phone at the same time as you're using your DSL service. The presence or absece of ADSL should have absolutely no effect on a voice-line modem.

I did not mean to ignore your question. I was told this by a "Technical Support" person for BellSouth FastAccess.



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Crystalguy

[Crystalguy]

Originally posted by WillGolfForFood:
Oops - I see that b_line12 has already addresed this issue. Maybe I should read the entire thread before responding to a particular message next time.

Yeah, I guess I should too.



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Crystalguy

[Jo3sh]

Here are the questions to ask the telco and cableco reps:

-- What is the max bandwidth I can get with this plan?
-- What is the minimum GUARANTEED bandwidth?
-- How much does it cost per month?
-- What is my recourse if I do not get my guaranteed minimum?
What do I have to do to prove that I am not recieving my guaranteed bandwidth?

Get the answers to all of the above, in writing. Then, you can compare apples to aplles, instead of brochures.

I, as a customer of PacBell DSL, get 384 kbps GUARANTEED, and a max of 1.5 Mbps. In neighboring towns, where GTE is the DSL provider, the guarantee is only 10kbps, which is about the same as a 14.4 modem. Slow, in other words.

My guess is that the cable companies will not be very willing to guarantee you naything. This for me (well, and the fact that, since we don't use TV cable, I'd have to buy that service, too) was the dealbreaker.

I am very satisfied with the DSL line, but I should not that my experience is by far the most positive of anyone I know. Proceed with care, and don't jump before you're comfortable with the numbers.

[rowrrbazzle]

I have had a cable modem for about 6 or so months and except for the first two months it's been pretty reliable. There had been a $250 installation fee! When they finally dropped it, I signed up.

If there's some problem at their end, they will credit me for each day that I can't connect - about $1.30/day.

I did have a problem when I couldn't connect for a week. The signal to the TV was also degraded, so the two problems were probably related.

When I signed up, DSL was not generally available. If it had been and the prices and reliability were close, I would've gone with DSL just so the cable company wouldn't get any more of my money.

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"No," he replied, and smiled seraphically, as was his wont.

[JonF]

Actually, DSL provides a Dynamic IP address with the base package. To get a static IP address costs much more per month, since they assume the real reason you would want a static IP is to run a Web server. Don't know about cable though.

It may depend on the provider. When I got my DSL from Flashcom, I specifically asked if I got a fixed IP (I just wanted to know). I was told yes. I wound up with the 768/384 Solo Surger package, but I have no reason to believe that it's different with the slower access version. I do indeed have a fixed IP.

They should not be assuming that I will be running a Web server, because my temrs of service explicitly forbid running any kind of server, including NAT.

I was at a freind's house last night, and he has Media One. He gets his IP from a DHCP server. It has changed twice in the past two years.

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jrf

[Crystalguy]

Once again my ADSL line was down this morning. It is now up and running and as soon as I was able to contact Technical Support, I did and I asked again about using the dial up connection when ADSL was down. The guy I talked to said, basically, "Hell, yes, and whoever told you not to did not know what the hell he was talking about."

So, I regret posting as truth what now appears to be totally false information. But a Technical Support person did tell me not to do it, originally.

[Strider]

After i got my DSL from Pacbell, my girlfriend convinced her mom to get high speed access. Her mom, being cost concious as she is, decided with a cable modem. They too had to buy a modem but installation was free. About a month later they cancelled their service because it was about the same as their old AOL connection, in other words, BUTT SLOW! They then got a DSL connection and they are whipping along like i am. Right now in the San Francisco Bay Area Pacbell is doing DSL for 39.95 a month, free modem, free installation. BUT here's the kicker. You have a one year service contract. And since Southwest Bell owns Pacific Bell i assume, ususally a bad idea, that this applies to their DSL as well. Also, as far as static vs. dynamic, my girlfriend had a dynamic one with cable and also a dynamic one with DSL. I have a static one with DSL because i got mine in the beginning when all they had was static. I much prefer static to dynamic, but thats because i run a server. As far as speed goes, i have gotten up to 2.5 megs a second, but that was before they imposed a Max speed law of 1.5. When Pac-bell installed it they brought up a web page that could tell you how fast your connection is. Does anyone know of such a web page? Also,if you are researching cable i would ask your cable provider, if they will tell you, how may people are on your node, and what the max of your node is. If you have 250 people on your node and they max is 275, then from 8am to 9pm your speeds are gonna suck. and thats my 2 cents.
-n

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"Oh my God! Space aliens! Don't eat me, I have a wife and kids! Eat them."
Homer Simpson

[JonF]

When Pac-bell installed it they brought up a web page that could tell you how fast your connection is. Does anyone know of such a web page?

Free Online tests (http://www.dslreports.com/doconcern)

MSN Speed Test (http://www.computingcentral.com/topics/bandwidth/speedtest50.asp)

The Bandwidth Meter (http://www.2wire.com/dlp/dlp_bandwidth.html)


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jrf

[Crystalguy]

Strider, the Tech Support guy I talked to yesterday gave me this: www.dslreports.com (http://www.dslreports.com) . Maybe this is the webpage you meant. Hope it helps.

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Crystalguy