Do you find anything wrong with eating lamb or veal?

[cainxinth]

I’ll eat just about anything if you cook it right. Plant, animal or fungi, there are very few things I wouldn’t try at least once, but for some reason I am uncomfortable with lamb and veal. I have no objection to raising cattle for slaughter, and I’ll eat a three-egg omelet without shedding a tear for the potential embryos I just consumed, but the thought of cooking and eating an infant just gives me the willies.

[Snooooopy]

So McDonald's new Lamb McNuggets don't interest you in the least? :)

[AntaresJB]

I really really like veal. I've never had lamb. If I really stop to think about where my meat comes from, yeah, it kinda makes me sad. But it's how life works. People are built for eating meat. We breed and raise these animals for food purposes. So yeah, it's sad that it's a baby and didn't really get to live very long, and I would never be able to kill, slaughter, or so all that to an actual animal myself... but I am a consumer, I am a carnivore. And they are yummy.

[Potter]

When you are eating lamb, you are not eating the tiny, fluffy, 'gambolling' lamb but instead a small, young sheep which isn't halfway as cute, and has had an enjoyably free-range life in a field somewhere for a fairly decent length of time. The problems some people began to have with the ethical nature of eating veal was not due to the fact it's the flesh of a very young animal (which in the case of veal, unlike the lamb, it is), but with methods used to produce the majority of veal during the last few decades - without wishing to go into too much detail (it's not terribly pleasant), 'factory-raised' veal meant that the animal was removed from its mother after a couple of days, tethered in a tiny stall without sunlight, water or any space to move around in. The calf would be force-fed a liquid diet and would not leave the pen until taken for slaughter. This method produced the palest flesh, which was attractive to consumers.

However, there is more and more truly 'free range' veal available these days, although the flesh will generally be darker and less tender/have a coarser texture. The effects of the vegetarian and ethical eating movements are beginning to be seen in farming methods, although it's a slow process - a small but significant proportion of consumers are now willing to pay a little more or purchase a less-'standardised' product if they are aware the farming methods used were as humane as possible.

:looks around: oops, sorry, I appear to have mistaken this with Great Debates...

I love roast lamb, especially with rosemary-mint jelly and a huge pile of french beans and parmesan-roast potatoes. However, I don't eat veal because I got so used to disapproving of its production methods that it's just no longer a part of my diet, and I wouldn't want to eat it unless I have purchased the raw meat myself and was sure it was from an ethical source. I have no problem with eating flesh but I like my meat to be happy!meat wherever possible.

[I am Sparticus]

Only if its overcooked. Yummy.

[Eliahna]

I have no problem with it at all. While I've heard of people disliking veal (my mother for one), this is the first time I've ever encountered the concept of feeling odd about eating lamb from a non-vegetarian.

Roast lamb is pretty standard fare in my family. Veal is not, because of the reasons Potter lists - cruel treatment to produce the most desirable end result.

[JohnT]

No.

[istara]

I cannot understand the thrill of veal. Pale, tasteless meat is to me a waste of money. Give me well-aged beef any time.

Lamb is fine, but to be honest the tastiest "sheep-meat" I have ever eaten is mutton in the form of a bihari kebab at a Pakistani restaurant here. Spicy and so long marinaded it is butter-soft, almost like pate.

I don't care at what age an animal is killed as long as it doesn't cause undue distress to the mother (ie killing an unweaned five-day-old infant) and as long as it is killed humanely, and has lived its life in humane conditions.

[everton]

According to this SDMB Staff report (http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mlamb.html), lamb is technically the meat of a sheep that is less than one year old. I'll leave it up to your conscience to decide whether that's old enough, but I can confirm that the animal is fully-grown by then.

It tastes delicious In My Humble Opinion.

[Crusoe]

I think I'd be a hypocrite if it bothered me (although I'm not accusing anyone else of that).

[The Great Unwashed]

If anyone cares I've ranted on this before, one could probably search a find it, if one cared. But let me hijack this just a little.

[Little Hijack]It is the single most surprising fact of this world that the slaughter of animals for our eating pleasure is so unquestioningly accepted. I believe that it is stark proof that we are capable of embracing self-reinforcing delusions in order to suit ourselves. Of course, I say "we"...[/Little Hijack]

[Really Big Fucking Hijack] "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat" Genesis 1:29

Can anyone tell me what that is meant to mean?

BTW after "the fall" God says (I paraphrase) "You're so fucked-up already you might as well eat flesh now."[/Really Big Fucking Hijack]

Anyway, enjoy your dinner.

[everton]

I'm sure we could think of more surprising facts if we cared to.

If you feel the need to use the Bible as a culinary guide (I don't), you need to read Leviticus, or any of these other references (http://bible.christiansunite.com/est.cgi?action=Search&terms=food).

[The Great Unwashed]

Originally posted by everton
I'm sure we could think of more surprising facts if we cared to.

If you feel the need to use the Bible as a culinary guide (I don't), you need to read Leviticus, or any of these other references (http://bible.christiansunite.com/est.cgi?action=Search&terms=food).

On point one, er, go on, name some.

On point two, er, I don't, my conscience is my guide, I am in fact a God-fearing, Evangelical Atheist. I only dropped that quote in because I'm surprised that the ever-so-ethical-religious among us, hardly ever bring that up.

I am easily surprised, obviously.

Did I sense some defensiveness in your pithy post, I wasn't sure if the "if we cared to" bit wasn't some subtle, coded attack?

[smiling bandit]

More like your hijacking this post to espouse your own little vision, whilst calling people "deluded".

[everton]

Originally posted by The Great Unwashed
Did I sense some defensiveness in your pithy post, I wasn't sure if the "if we cared to" bit wasn't some subtle, coded attack?
No defensiveness, no attack, just an opinion (just as yours is an opinion). It seems to me that the only one on the attack is you. It also seems very strange to rely on a Biblical quotation to criticise eating of meat in a thread where nobody has declared an interest in their ethics based on the Bible. Even stranger for an athiest to do it.

BTW, there's no entry in the Guinness Book of Records for "single most surprising fact of this world", nor, I suspect is there ever likely to be. But I'll take a punt that somebody being a God-fearing Athiest might make it into the top three.

[The Great Unwashed]

Originally posted by smiling bandit
More like your hijacking this post to espouse your own little vision, whilst calling people "deluded".

A propos Do you find anything wrong with eating lamb or veal?

Yes! IMO it is the consequence of delusional thinking.

Better?

[UrbanChic]

I have no problem eating either. I often use a mixture of veal and beef to make my beef stew. It goes over very well.

We had lamb for lunch this past Saturday. It was nummy.

[Ukulele Ike]

...but it doesn't address the OP. Which is asking specifically about eating lil' kiddie animals. Your problem seems to be with meat in general.

[Jane D'oh!]

I never cook lamb or veal at home, so when I go out to eat, the first thing I look for on any menu is lamb or veal. mmmmmm

No, I have no problem eating either, if they are prepared well (which is why I don't attempt to cook either.)

[Jervoise]

Obligatory Simpsons reference (http://www.snpp.com/episodes/2F01.html):

Bart: I'll have a Brain Burger with extra pus, please.

Marge: Bart!

Homer: Eyeball stew.

Marge: Homer! We just got here and already I'm mortified beyond belief by your embarrassing behavior.

Bart: I was just ordering a cheeseburger, Mom. They have violent names for everything here.

Marge: Oh, I see. All right, hmm... I'll have the Baby Guts.

Waiter: Lady, you disgust me.

Lisa: Mom, that's veal.

Marge: Oh...

[Homebrew]

mmmm ... Veal Marsala .....


mmm .... Gyros ....




Nope. No problems here.

[The Great Unwashed]

Originally posted by Ukulele Ike
...but it doesn't address the OP. Which is asking specifically about eating lil' kiddie animals. Your problem seems to be with meat in general.

Er, yes it does! Lamb and veal are specific cases of a more general question. My position is unaltered by the specificity.

And, what problem?

[irishgirl]

don't eat veal, because the crating of calves is cruel.
same reason i don't eat battery chicken or the eggs produced by battery hens.

i eat irish lamb, beef and pork, mostly because i know the animals get to spend much of their lives outdoors, in fields and are humanely slaughtered.

[Bricker]

Love lamb. Happy to eat it. I'm at the top of the food chain, ya see.

[smiling bandit]

[quote]Better?[quote]

Not much. Please elucidate on exactly how and why I am deluded for not particularly assigning any intrinsic moral value to animalkind. Better yet, please start a Great Debate on it, or at least a MPSIMS.

[The Great Unwashed]

Originally posted by everton
No defensiveness, no attack, just an opinion (just as yours is an opinion). It seems to me that the only one on the attack is you.
The OP asks for opinions (and please note, Mr Bandit, that this is IMHO), that amounted to "for" or "against", well I'm against, that is the extent of my scathing, snarling rottweiler attack. Ooh I'm nasty.

It also seems very strange to rely on a Biblical quotation to criticise eating of meat in a thread where nobody has declared an interest in their ethics based on the Bible. Even stranger for an athiest to do it.
It was certainly off-topic, I even marked it up as a Big Fucking Hijack -- call it an aside, if you will. I can see no strangeness that an atheist might quote the bible, if that interests you start another thread.

BTW, there's no entry in the Guinness Book of Records for "single most surprising fact of this world", nor, I suspect is there ever likely to be. But I'll take a punt that somebody being a God-fearing Athiest might make it into the top three. Someone's irony may be failing -- I'll check mine and get back to you.

[everton]

What would have been the most productive approach here?
Offering a straight-forward sensible rationale as to why eating lamb or veal is unethical
Striding in with your big, red ranting trousers on and quoting the BiblePersonally I only read rants for comedy value, if at all, so I hope you won’t mind if I don’t search for your previous contributions on this subject. We're still waiting for an explanation of your point of view, or an explanation of why you disagree with the other opinions. Without that, surely you can't be surprised that some people think your contribution is unwelcome?

[Peach]

If God didn't want us to eat animals he wouldn't have made them out of meat!

[nashiitashii]

The New York Times had a good article (http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/10/magazine/10ANIMAL.html) in their weekly magazine yesterday that touched on subjects like animal slaughterhouses and the meat/poultry industry these days.

I personally don't have a problem with eating any kind of meat as long as it tastes good to me; unfortunately we've got some horrible methods of raising edible livestock in America these days. It actually makes an argument for both sides of the coin IMO.
-indigo-

[Mockingbird]

As a member of PETA(People Eating Tasty Animals), I feel it is my duty to eat anything lower on the food chain that is delicious.

Stupid people should watch out as well.

:D

[Rhum Runner]

Love meat, but won't eat veal. No problem with lamb though. I object to the way veal is raised. Not an entirely consistent position, I'll grant you, but there it is.

[Ferret Herder]

My husband eats meat but won't eat veal in the US. Apparently in Italy (from what we'd read), veal calves are not penned up but are basically "free-ranging", and so when we've traveled there he's enjoyed it. He likes veal but is too disturbed by the way in which it is produced in the US. (Similarly, we buy eggs from free-range chicken farms, where hens can lay in nests rather than battery cages.) He eats and enjoys lamb; in fact we just got back from a Greek restaurant where he had lamb and artichokes. He also hunts deer for the venison.

I'm a vegetarian, and eat no animal flesh of any kind. I also do not push my views on others, and cook meat for him.

[Kat]

Naw, supposedly people don't taste that good.

[Kat]

Oh, I should put mine down, too. I have no problem eating lamb, but I don't eat veal.

[LindyHopper]

Maybe, but not enough to stop eating them. I went through a no-veal period about 10 years ago, but I'm feeling much better now.

And to rephrase Peach: If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them so tasty!

Anyone who thinks veal is tasteless hasn't had good veal. Or doesn't want to (not that there's anything wrong with that). There's plenty of tasty veal out there (particularly in chop form) for those who want it.

I'll eat free-range chicken when I can find it (although I do live in Montana, so that's not often), but that's not because of any ethical considerations, but because it simply tastes better. There's a Hutterite colony a little bit away from here that raises the most delicious turkeys, ducks, geese, and chickens. Yummy.

So yes, unregenerate carnivore checking in. :shrug:

[Angel of the Lord]

I have no problem eating lamb; then again, as I come from a partly-Greek family, that's no surprise. Veal, on the other hand, I don't eat, for the reasons mentioned above.

Funny story (kinda): Once we were at my grandma's house, and I mentioned in a conversation that I don't eat veal. At this point, I'd never had veal--it's not something we really have in my family. So, of course, I didn't know what it looked like. That night, my mom made an unidentified roast. I asked her what it was, and she said pork. So I took a small piece (I find pork gross, but that's a matter of personal taste). A minute later, after I'd taken a bite, my dad comes into the kitchen and asks, "what's for dinner?"

My mom, of course, answered, "veal." Boy, there was one pissed off Angel in the house that night.

My mom also made ham the day I finished dissecting a fetal pig in AP biology. I think she likes to torture me.

[Burnt Sugar]

Lamb is my favourite meat. Yummy! Especially roast. *Drools*

I don't eat veal. I may have tried it in a restaurant once. Maybe. I eat beef though. I don't really see veal around that much. I have no idea how either are raised around here.

[The Great Unwashed]

Originally posted by everton
What would have been the most productive approach here?
Offering a straight-forward sensible rationale as to why eating lamb or veal is unethical
Striding in with your big, red ranting trousers on and quoting the BiblePersonally I only read rants for comedy value, if at all, so I hope you won’t mind if I don’t search for your previous contributions on this subject. We're still waiting for an explanation of your point of view, or an explanation of why you disagree with the other opinions. Without that, surely you can't be surprised that some people think your contribution is unwelcome?

Look, this thread isn't exactly brimmimg with "straight-forward sensible rationale", unless you count "yummy", so don't feel you can guilt me in this respect. There's nothing like a rant from me, just a couple of more or less topical observations, so don't characterize it otherwise.


Some thoughts:


AntaresJB admits that they couldn't slaughter any animal for their eating pleasure.

This is my position, trapped on an island with cows a-plenty, and vegetables a-plenty, I'd eat the vegetables. Starving, I'd kill and eat my grandmother.

Then I realised that this is exactly my position, I live on an island (abundant with cows and vegetables), albeit a fairly big one.


Crusoe said "I think I'd be a hypocrite if it bothered me"

Well, it bothers me. I'm no hypocrite, so I eat no meat.


I ask the question, trapped on an island, with cows or veg, where do you start? How about dolphins or veg? Or dog and veg? Or grandmother and veg? I mean she's not going to put up much of a fight, and there's some good chewin' still left in her.


Show of hands please, how many on this island are creeping up to that cow right now with a big rock in your hand, salivating?


Because do you know what I have to say?


Put that rock down and stop slavering at my granny!

[Judith Prietht]

I live for meat. I don't eat veal much because I'm sort of on a budget, but I'll be making an herb-crusted rack of lamb on Thanksgiving. I'm salivating thinking about it.

[Fretful Porpentine]

Lamb, yes. I don't buy veal or order it in restaurants, for the same reasons others have mentioned, but I'll certainly eat it if I'm invited to dinner at someone's house.

[AHunter3]

'Unwashed, your granny's probably old and stringy and not marbled enough to taste good.

Killing for the purpose of eating is OK. Killing for 'sport' (whatever that may mean) or out of malice is cruel and horrid.

All things being equal, I'm in favor of the current cultural ban on cannibalism. It would be inconvenient to have to worry about being preyed upon by my own species.

But I do think that if you're going to kill people, you should eat them.

[DaToad]

First, I'm omnivorous, so there isn't much I don't (or won't) eat.

Herb crusted rack of lamb? Oh my, what a delight. So, Judith Prietht, how you doin?

I'm with LindyH, there is plenty of good veal to be had if you know where to look.

Bye the way, beef, veal, and pork, mixed together (Grandma Toad's recipe) make the best meatballs ever. Braised lamb with portabella mushrooms in wine sauce....

[everton]

The Great Unwashed:
Well your last post was fairly incoherent, but at least we seem to be making some progress.

Other people can answer for themselves about hypocrisy or whether they want to add something to “yummy”. But in mentioning ranting, I was referring to this remark of yours:
If anyone cares I've ranted on this before, one could probably search a find it, if one cared. But let me hijack this just a little.
As far as “topical observations” are concerned – where are they?

Of course there’s no law stopping an atheist quoting Genesis as a work of literature, but if I was quoting it in a thread about ethics I’d do it for one of two reasons: 1. because I considered it to be the authoritative word of God (and therefore a worthwhile ethical source) and because it supported my case or 2. because I knew that the people on the opposite side of the argument trusted Genesis, and yet my quotation undermined their case.

You’re an atheist, so reason 1 is a non-starter, and you’ve got no reason to assume that anybody else here is relying on Genesis for their ethical position, so reason 2 falls down too. Your quoting Genesis was not a topical observation, or even “an aside”, it was a waste of time. You then offered the point of view that eating meat is “a consequence of delusional thinking”, which doesn’t even make any sense. Perhaps you’d like to qualify what you meant by it?

And now you’re drawing a moral equivalence between a cow and your granny. Maybe she’d be OK with that, but it’s an unsustainable argument unless you’re prepared to consider a similar moral equivalence between your granny and a rat, a fish, a worm, a leech etc. There’d come a point at which you’d have to draw the line, and that’s the same dilemma faced by anyone who considers eating animal flesh.

Human society does not generally consider humans and animals to be morally equivalent. If it did the courts would be full of cats being tried for murdering mice. Instead we take it upon ourselves to decide what responsibility we have towards animals, and act according to our conscience.

I don’t notice many people – even militant vegans – adopting the Jainist practice of wearing a gauze mask to avoid breathing in tiny creatures. We all have a place to draw the line.

Personally I have no problem with the fact that an animal might die to feed me, but I do have a problem with the fact that the animal may have suffered during its life. I calculate the degree of suffering (insofar as I’m aware of it) and make a judgement about whether it’s acceptable or not. Your judgement puts a line in a different place, and of course that's fine – there's no need to boil up about it.

Personally, I wouldn’t go deer hunting or work in an abattoir for the same reason I wouldn’t be a vet or a dentist – it’s a matter of squeamishness, not morality. When it comes to drawing the line, I suppose there are two considerations: I wouldn’t kill an animal that I considered to be “too much like a human” (so that would exclude dolphins and dogs) and I wouldn’t force an animal to live a miserable life (so that scuppers battery poultry and crated veal). Additionally, as you’ve said yourself, you have to modify your ethics according to your circumstances, and starvation would be less preferable to eating human flesh, as some aeroplane passengers have discovered to their dismay. But starvation or not is not the only reason to make that choice.

This is a serious enough topic, and I know from conversations with vegetarian friends of mine that there are religious, ethical and health-related reasons why people might choose not to eat meat. But petulant remarks about rottweilers and the like just make you seem childish and are going to convince nobody.

[The Asbestos Mango]

I won't buy veal- mom does sometimes, because I mentioned that venison is available at Wild Oats and no matter how many times I explain to her that venison is dear and veal is a calf that has been tortured, she can't grok the difference between the two meats. I do go ahead and cook and eat it, but it definitely is not my first choice of meat. I would buy it if weren't for the aforementioned inhumane conditons the calves are raised under.

I do love lamb- I like to cook it in a sauce made of Foster's Lager, soy sauce, garlic, rosemary, basil and sage. Yummy. I like it a bit on the rare side, mom likes hers well done.

Most of the objections I hear to eating venison, lamb and rabbit (which I am also fond of, but don't eat very often) are purely emotional (How can you eat Bambi?) I have no such qualms. I'd have to be pretty desparately starving to actually kill a cute animal, but once it's out of the fluffy wrapper, it's game ball.

Of course, once I've verified that a particular food is not something I'm allergic to, I'll eat just about anything as long as it's been killed and properly cooked. I seldom eat prime rib because the first time I had it, (at a very expensive restaraunt) it was served up so rare that I wanted to send it back and ask them to pleas kill the cow, and I still have kind of an "eeewwww factor" about it, even if it has actually been cooked.

Sole exception- I love raw oysters.

[Ferret Herder]

Originally posted by Thea Logica
Most of the objections I hear to eating venison, lamb and rabbit (which I am also fond of, but don't eat very often) are purely emotional (How can you eat Bambi?) I have no such qualms. I'd have to be pretty desparately starving to actually kill a cute animal, but once it's out of the fluffy wrapper, it's game ball.


That's one thing I forgot in my post - my husband hunts deer (for meat only, not trophies), but won't hunt rabbit. He's heard a wounded rabbit before, and says it screams more like a human child rather than what you think a rabbit might sound like.

[kanicbird]

I see something wrong in not eating it

[Caffeine.addict]

I'll eat veal if it is being served at someone else's house, but at home or at restaurants I usually get something else.

I love lamb and order it whenever I go to an Indian, Greek, Turkish or Morrocan restaurant. I don't eat it at home a lot since it is rather difficult to properly prepare it.

[LindyHopper]

Originally posted by DaToad
Bye the way, beef, veal, and pork, mixed together (Grandma Toad's recipe) make the best meatballs ever.Oh, now you're just making me salivate. You're right; that's the best mixture, not only for meatballs, but for Italian meat sauce in general. But you should add some sausage too...:)

[Monster104]

MMMMM....MEAT!

Veal and Lamb are both very, very tasty if cooked properly...

[The Great Unwashed]

Originally posted by everton
The Great Unwashed:
Well your last post was fairly incoherent, but at least we seem to be making some progress.


You patronizing arse Everton!

[smiling bandit]

He is not incorrect, however.

Wow, this is turnign into aPit thread really fast. You still have not justitified your position, Unwashed

[Ukulele Ike]

Please do not post direct insults in forums other than the Pit.

Thenk yew.


-- Uke, Special Guest IMHO Moderator

[Judith Prietht]

This thread feels like it can be all things at once:

I lost my post on lamb and veal--why?: ATMB
How do lamb and veal get to the dinner table?: General Questions
Morality of raising and eating lamb and veal: Great Debates
Recipes for lamb and veal: Cafe Society
Do you eat lamb or veal?: IMHO
The last time I ate lamb or veal: MPSIMS
You suck for eating lamb or veal!: The Pit

[norinew]

Hubby likes lamb, I do not. I enjoy the flovor of veal parmagiana or veal carbonara, but find the meat too expensive to actually buy. A rather amusing aside: I was at least 20 before I realized that veal were baby cows. For way too many years, I thought "veal" was an entirely separate animal :)

[agentfroot]

A friend once said, "I always thought mutton was uber beef." I just had to share that.

I like veal and only eat it when my parents serve it, but I prefer not to think about what I'm actually eating...

[Narile]

I love both veal and lamb. I do try to get free range veal when I can though for the same reason that I try to by most of my meats kosher or as kosher like as possible. (Kind of hard to find kosher pork yaknow. ;) ) The animals suffering should be as minimal as possible before it is slaughtered. That said, I have no problem with slaughtering an animal and eating it...mother nature is a bitch, and I'm not much nicer.

[manwithaplan]

Originally posted by irishgirl
i eat irish lamb, beef and pork, mostly because i know the animals get to spend much of their lives outdoors, in fields and are humanely slaughtered.

Irish cattle are kept outdoors in the summer months. Sheep are kept outdoors pretty much all year round. But unless you're buying pork which is specifically labelled as being produced from free range pigs (for the want of a better phrase), the overwhelming likelihood is that your dinner was produced in an intensive piggery, with little or no outdoor access for the animals.

[shelbo]

I do find something wrong. Lamb chops are too damn expensive, that's whats wrong!

[The_Peyote_Coyote]

Not in the least, although I am careful about meat consumption because I suffer from gout.

[Blown & Injected]

As mentioned, veal is good and tasty. Never had veal that was without much flavor. Although the mistreatment of animals is not cool, I will continue to eat veal. - go ahead and bust my chops.

Hunting dear just means that the animal has had the best possible free life available for that animal. Then in a blink of an eye... seems like a better way to go. It was not just born and bred for slaughter.

Since God stuff was mentioned: A friend told me that the bible says animals were put on Earth for our use. I personally don't know, or try to keep up, about them God type things.

[elfkin477]

I like meat. But I don't knowingly eat lamb, veal, piglet, cornish hens (which despite fancy the name are simply baby birds), seafood or wild game.

Do I have well thought out reasons for this? Nope. It is sort of like this: Fish taste terrible, and they live in their own floating poop. Wild animals are sort of noble and free. Baby animals are cute, and nothing should die a virgin(not that I ask if the older animals got to screw before eating a steak. I know the steers didn't, but they didn't really have that option). But hey, I don't really need to justify not eating them, so why bother putting more thought into it? I don't have any moral objections to other people eating these animals, per say, as long as they accept I'm not going to.

[Flowerchild]

When I was little ( 6-10) my dad made veal cutlets once a month or so, and I loved them..... until i went to visit my aunt and she told me what veal was. at the age of ten, the only thing I could say was "Ewwwwww." I always thought it was some kind of tough chicken. ( then again I was so little that everything tasted like chicken, come to think of it everything still tastes like chicken!"

[jonpluc]

Ill eat pretty much any meat you can find in your average grocery store. I have a few observations of other peoples food views that always seem contradictory to me. First are the non veal eaters that think that keeping a veal in a little pen to keep them tender is cruel. To me its no different than having chickens stacked on top of each other 3 or 4 thick at your average commercial chicken pen. True, some would say that why i dont eat chickens either but ill bet youd find a suprising # of people that will eat chicken and NOT veal for just that reason.Also as to the "cruelness " of the veal pens i had a farmer once tell me that humans transfer human feelings onto animals when it may not nessesarily be that way. His arguements were that calfs felt safe and secure in thier pens and the "being jailed" feeling is a human construct. Who knows if this is true or can be proven one way or the other but there ya go. And there are the" no babies" eaters. Can you define what a baby shrimp looks like as compared to an undersized adult?? I cant and all ages are delicious to me. One big baby lobster is the same to me as a tiny adult but yet there are a large # of people who still eat meat and seafood, but dont eat "babies" that give none of these issues a second thought. Why is the age of a food important <aside from cullinary issues> in determining wether it should be eaten or not?? Seems rather arbitrary to me.

[Czarcasm]

The Great Unwashed, if you wish to preach, do so in Great Debates.
Everyone else, please give your position without reacting to the honest opinions of others(that is what we do here at IMHO, after all), then move on.

[everton]

I suppose this could count as a reaction, Czarcasm, but I hope you’ll let it pass since it isn’t critical in any way…

Flowerchild – scene in the Restaurant of the Future:
[Me] Wow, grilled Martian!!? What does it taste like?
[Waiter] Like chicken sir.
[Me] So how much is the chicken? …er, I’ll have the chicken then.

[cainxinth]

I apologize also, Czarcasm. I hope you’ll allow me a minor nitpick.

<hijack>
jonpluc, two things. One, aves are a step below mammals on the evolutionary ladder. They lack a cerebrum, which is believed to be responsible for higher-level thinking and memory. There are some very smart birds like parrots, but in general chickens aren’t the brightest creatures. Hence the expression, "bird-brained." That doesn't make mistreatment of chickens in commercial farms any less severe, but I guess I just assume penning is worse on a mammal than a bird. I’m open to correction on that. Second, caged mammals exhibit very clear symptoms of duress, like pulling out their hair, pacing, lack of appetite, failure to groom themselves or even take care of their young. This is in reference to zooed animals that receive amazing care and treatment. I can't imagine penned calves waiting for slaughter aren't experiencing similar problems. Jail may be a human construct, but that doesn't mean animals can't grasp it.
</hijack>

That said, I have absolutely nothing against people who eat veal. I’m the only one in my family who doesn't, I was just wondering what the doper opinion was.

[HPL]

Originally posted by The Great Unwashed


I ask the question, trapped on an island, with cows or veg, where do you start? How about dolphins or veg? Or dog and veg? Or grandmother and veg? I mean she's not going to put up much of a fight, and there's some good chewin' still left in her.



Cows and veg, I'd kill a cow, get some veggies, cook both up and have a nice balanced meal, smoke the rest of the cow or something to preserve it, live off the remainder of the cow and any veggies I picked until the meat ran out(probably take a while) and I needed to kill another cow.

Dolphins and veggies, probably just veggies until I figured out how to catch a dolphin( Unless are special "Land-Dolphins"). Though if they turn out to be too rubbery, then I'll skip it.

Dog and veg, eat the veggies and hope the dog agrees. Now if were a bunch of wild dogs as the only other signifcant mammel on the island, then I'd probably have dog every once in a while, if I could kill or trap them.

Grandma, I ain't eating grandma.

[HPL]

I don't think I've ever had Veal or lamb but I have no moral or ethical problem with it. I eat chicken, I eat beef, I eat deer, I eat sea food, etc, so I really don't see the difference between eating lamb and eating a cow. I'd probably eat monkeys if I had too(They're cute, they're funny and they're tasty:D). I'm not going to eat bugs, and even shrimp makes me a little leary (even though I love shrimp) but I don't see a moral problem.

I also don't have a problem killing the animals myself if I have to, but I do not hunt for sport.

[Fenris]

Originally posted by irishgirl
i don't eat battery chicken or the eggs produced by battery hens.

Pardon me "battery" chicken?

I've never heard the term.

Fenris

[everton]

Originally posted by Fenris
Pardon me "battery" chicken?
Don't worry - it's nothing to do with electricty. It's a term we use over here for chickens (and other poultry) that are kept in stacks of small, wire-frame cages (http://www.tamucc.edu/~sencerz/anim-chickfarms.htm).

They're controversial because they're unsanitary and the birds have practically no freedom of movement.

[everton]

A second look at that link suggests that it was an American site anyway, so apparently the term is in use your side of the water too.

[Fenris]

Thanks.

I've always heard 'em called "Factory farms"

Fenris