What to do with a sawed-off shotgun

[TV time]

Last night I was in a poker game and I won a saw-off shotgun. The fellow was not a very good poker player and I felt it was wiser for me to give him the $50 he wanted for it so he could keep playing rather than let him keep it and continue to lose and have a shotgun.

Anyway, so now I have a sawed-off shotgun. So what do I do with it? I know it is illegal so it is not something I am going to put over the mantle above the fireplace (actually, I don't have a mantle or a fireplace - so that was out anyway). Should I turn it into the police. I am then out $50 and that is not a prospect that I look forward to. I can't use it for hunting if I were to go hunting. Obviously, it has no range.

So what do I do with it.

[BF]

You say it's sawed off, how long is the barrel? An illegal sawed off shotgun has a barrel length of less than 18 inches. If it's 18 and 1/8 inch, it's not illegal.

[Exgineer]

Overall length also has to exceed 24 inches for it to be legal.

[Ringo]

The last time I needed to get rid of a sawed-off shotgun, I took it apart and cleaned everything and then my neighbor threw it in his front yard and we called the cops to report a mysterious shotgun in the front yard.

The cops came and made it go away.

I can't think of anything useful to do with an illegal firearm besides just get rid of it.

[BF]

FWIW, to directly answer the OP. If the stock and the shotgun is a halfway decent make and in good condition, I'd remove the barrel, hacksaw it in half and throw it away. Then I'd go buy a replacement barrel, which would probably run less than $100, easy. Then I'd either use it or sell it and recoup my investment.

[Johnny L.A.]

First measure it to make sure it's really illegal.

If it is, you can always lose it in a poker game. :D

[Crafter_Man]

I have a friend who found his father's old sawed-off shotgun in their attic. He lives near a small lake. Suffice to say, he's not in possession of the gun anymore...

[TV time]

From the shortened barrel to the homemade pistol grip, it is a total of 18 inches. Barrel length is 12 inches. It is definitely illegal.

Do some police departments still pay for turned-in weapons? I seem to remember some departments having "toys-for-guns" programs a few years back. Do they still exist? How would I find out without basically announcing that I have a questionable gun? And if I were to take in this illegal gun at one of these programs, would they arrest me for having it? Since it is so clearly illegal.

Ringo, your front lawn idea is looking very good, but I still hate to be out the $50 (I really sound cheap, don't I?).

[hajario]

I think that $50 is worth the story that you get to tell. You're going to have to ...uh... bite the bullet and dispose of the thing.

Haj

[Ringo]

Hmm..., I paid only $7 for the one I tossed, so it was less of an issue. I just didn't like having it around, and the way I got rid of it assured me that no random miscreant was going to lay hands on it.

[Rube E. Tewesday]

Put it in a bus locker, and call in a tip to the cops from a pay phone. Like someone said, you've got a $50 story. If you've got this thing hanging around, and the guy you got it from decides to screw with you by making his own call, you can be in for a world of hurt.

[mrcrow]

Originally posted by hajario
I think that $50 is worth the story that you get to tell. You're going to have to ...uh... bite the bullet and dispose of the thing.
Haj
i know us has guns etc but this one sounds like it is not made to hunt rabbits in the first place
in uk there is an amnesty for firearms but shotguns require a certificate of ownership and the police would need to know the previous owner.
when i shot i kept records of all the purchasers of my guns and their shotgun certs if they didnt have one. no sale....
i guess the poker game got a bit out of hand..??
btw all sawn off shotguns were once 'legal'..someone sawed them for a reason and not ballistically either.
i was told if you destroy the fore end it renders the gun useless
a gunsmith will always query a replacement fore end.
but this is uk:)

[Johnny L.A.]

mrcrow posted what I was thinking. Get rid of the stock and the barrel (ASAP!), and keep the rest. You can have a new barrel fitted by a gunsmith, and he can also put on a new stock or you can put it on yourself. Considering that there are some very inexpensive shotguns out there, it might not make sense to do this; but this is one way you can keep the shotgun and not have an illegal one at the same time. You can do a search to find out the value of an uncut shotgun to help you decide.

But be aware of this: The shotgun in its present state is illegal. You are currently in violation of federal law. You must get rid of the barrel and stock (or the whole thing) immediately. You don't need the barrel, so twist it off with a pair of Vice-Grips if you have to (after examining it to find out how it is removed, of course). If you turn it in to the police, they will want to know how you came by it. If you're not a good liar, then the guy who gave it to you will be in Trouble.

Again: Ditch the barrel and stock now. This is a public message board, and you don't want a BATF agent to say "I think I'll find this guy."

[Paul in Qatar]

If you remove the stock and the barrel, what exactly would be left except the memory of it?

[Johnny L.A.]

The receiver and trigger assembly. The receiver (or "lock", as I think they're called on shotguns) is the part that has the serial number.

[TV time]

Originally posted by mrcrow
i guess the poker game got a bit out of hand..??Nah, pretty typical. Periodically people will trade stuff to stay in a game. I will say that a couple of us sucked in some air when the guy came back after saying, "Wait a minute let me see if I have something in the car you guys will accept in trade" and he is carrying this gun.

In the past I have come away from poker games with a banjo, gum ball machine, CD player, bicycle and even a bust of Shakespeare.

Getting back to it. The lawn thing is looking better and better. Crafter_Man I would throw it in the local lake like your friend, but because of the drought we have been having, I'm not sure the water would cover it.

Haj, I had to acknowledge the wonderfully bad pun. So here goes, "Groan."

[stuyguy]

Ringo wrote:

"The last time I needed to get rid of a sawed-off shotgun..."

Obviously Ringo is not a man to be trifled with.

[Kalashnikov]

The patriotic thing to do is to clean and oil it without getting your prints on it. Then seal it and some shells in a waterproof container (pvc pipe is the usual thing) and bury it. Don't tell anyone.

You'll know when and if its time to (possibly anonymously) tell someone about it.

[sailor]

You can make a big hole on the side of each chamber and that would render it useless. You could also grind the firing pins down.

[GusNSpot]

Really, if you do not know what action it is? Pump, semi-auto, Win. Rem. Beretta? Find out and then maybe throw it away. Might be worth several hundred dollars and maybe a thousand with a legal barrel and a good stock. Know anybody that knows guns? And is a friend who won't turn you in or con you out of it? Can you look at it and then go to the gun shop and look in the Shooters Bible and see what you have? Have you priced guns lately? I wish I was rich enough to throw money away. Do what Johnny L. A. said, get rid of the illegal part now. Then check on what you got.

Of course there is no price on a great story either. Let us kno0w hat you do.....

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by Ringo
The last time I needed to get rid of a sawed-off shotgun, I took it apart and cleaned everything and then my neighbor threw it in his front yard and we called the cops to report a mysterious shotgun in the front yard.

The cops came and made it go away.

I can't think of anything useful to do with an illegal firearm besides just get rid of it.

I personally find this pretty irresponsible. If the police department later had to investigate a killing which involved a shotgun, the fact that they found a discarded and fingerprint-free shotgun in somebody's front yard might hurt or even destroy their case - i.e. they decide that the shotgun must be the murder weapon, but the person who really did it could not have been anywhere near your friend's yard. Also, what if they traced it back to it's original owner by it's serial number and an innocent person drew the attention of the police for a weapon they no longer owned?

[Crafter_Man]

Johnny L.A. is correct… make the gun disappear. Do not call the cops. They (or the BATF) will likely initiate an investigation, and you and your buddy could be in deep doo-doo.

And forget about the $50. Do you not understand the seriousness of your situation? You’re in possession of a felonious device and you’re worried about 50 measly bucks?

Wipe it down with oil and throw it in a pond.

[Crafter_Man]

Originally posted by TV time
The lawn thing is looking better and better.
No. Bad advice. Do not do this.
Crafter_Man I would throw it in the local lake like your friend, but because of the drought we have been having, I'm not sure the water would cover it.
Wipe it down with oil. Find a lake. Dump it.

[happyheathen]

This thread was posted 6 hours ago. That is more than enough time for a BATF agent to get your name and address.

Take a short drive over a bridge... just be sure no prints are on it.

[Tripler]

I actually had to dispose of a weapon like this, once.

Got a friend with a welding torch? Weld that chamber shut, cut it into little pieces, then scrap it. Hell, take a sledgehammer to it. Hacksaw. Anything.

Render that thing as inoperable as you can. Then get rid of it. No sense in passing it to some poor dumbass fisherman who snags it and pulls it out of the lake you dumped it in.

Tripler
Thermite grenade? I don't have any. Sorry.

[yo han go]

Not sure about issue here. Not American. Help me to uderstand that. So how would saw-off gun be more dangerous than not-saw-off gun? Not making sense...Why is that illegal in US of A.

[Jackmannii]

"Hell, take a sledgehammer to it....Render that thing as inoperable as you can."

Good advice. And trash it, not in a body of water.


And I would hate to be the guy caught transporting it to a bus station locker (as someone else suggested), in this day and age.

[Jackmannii]

Originally posted by yo han go
Not sure about issue here. Not American. Help me to uderstand that. So how would saw-off gun be more dangerous than not-saw-off gun? Not making sense...Why is that illegal in US of A.
Full-length shotguns are not that easy to conceal. A sawed-off can be stowed in a roomy coat pocket and then hauled out to rob your local retail store, make new and unwilling friends at some public establishment etc.
A nasty weapon at close range.

[KneadToKnow]

Originally posted by stuyguy
Ringo wrote:

"The last time I needed to get rid of a sawed-off shotgun..."

Obviously Ringo is not a man to be trifled with.
Not necessarily. I once read something about sounding more experienced than you are without lying. One of the tips (no joke) was whenever you were discussing something you had only ever done once, always describe it as "the last time" you did it.

Another hint: if several people around you are discussing a book you have not read (say at a dinner party), and one turns to you and asks if you have read it, reply, "Well, not in English."

And you know what, it worked really well for me the last time I tried it. Of course, that wasn't in English.

[Padeye]

Simple things like grinding the firing pins off won't render the gun legal. ATF is very strict that when destroying or demilitarizing a weapon it's done so it can't be easily repaired. Cutting the reciever with a torch or chop saw is best.

[Podkayne]

Originally posted by Crafter_Man And forget about the $50. Do you not understand the seriousness of your situation? You’re in possession of a felonious device and you’re worried about 50 measly bucks?

Hell, I'd say don't forget the $50--that's what means that you purchased an illegal firearm.

Apologies; have no advice regarding disposal of the weapon. Best of luck to you.

[yo han go]

IIRC, there are more (or same) deadly weapons, that are concealed easly than bigger cut-off guns, and are legal in US of A... Still, no sense to me... That kind of weapon only works at close range... So does my fist...:D

[yabob]

I can't use it for hunting if I were to go hunting. Obviously, it has no range.
Actually, if the barrel isn't shortened that much below the legal length, and the stock hasn't been modified, it has a defensible utility as a rabbit / quail gun. Range isn't an issue here, as you usually flush quail, rabbits or some other types of small game at very short range. The difficulty lies in being able to sight on and pot your fast moving quarry before it disappears again. A short barrel is less unwieldy, and helps with that. Also, at short range, the wider dispersal pattern makes it less likely that you will wind up with a bloody mess if you hit it instead of a nice quail for cooking with a couple pellets to be dug out of it.

Nevertheless, a barrel length under 18 inches is illegal, and a federal offense.

[DougC]

- - - Don't ditch it anywhere, and don't destroy it yet. If you have a local sporting goods/gun shop, you could phone them up and ask their advice on it, as to if it would be worth aquiring a new barrel and stock for. There's a slim chance the receiver might be worth more than $50, and if you explain how you got it and it's obvious you're asking how to make it legal again, they're not likely to turn you over. Of course, a new barrel and stock might cost a lot more than $50, but there might be somebody else who would want the rest of it. --Call a small local store though, not the area Sports Authority or Wal-Mart. They won't know, or may call it in.
- And you cannot simply "drill a couple of holes in it" and make it legal. Being "non-functional" and being "legal" are two different things. There's federal laws about this stuff, so common sense doesn't count for much here. That's why you need a local gunshop or gunsmith, they will know.
- I agree with "don't call the police"-- because if they hear about it, they have to move to obtain it and probably (though not necessarily) arrest somebody (it is a federal crime), and then you'll never know.
- If you want to destroy it (melt the serial # and render it forever non-functional) a welding torch is the way, but you have to know a friend that will do it. You can't just go to any local muffler shop and ask them to burn up a gun for you. -I personally would not toss it anywhere: the reason is that if anybody saw you toss it and they reported it into the police, you could be on the hook for anything that may have already been done with that gun, or anything that was done with a gun that looked like that.
~

[Muad'Dib]

Why are they illegal?

Why would someone saw off the barrel of their shotgun?

[Exgineer]

All right. We definitely need more information.

I'm going to assume that we are not dealing with a "pump" or autoloader here, because there is no way to cut either one down to the stated dimensions (18" overall, 12" bbl) and still have it actually function.

Therefore, we have a fixed-breech, top-break shotgun that is a)single-barrel; or b)side-by-side or c)over-under.

Even then, to cut the barrel(s) down to 12" you also have to cut the forestock. All the singles and doubles I've seen manufactured in the last 20 years or so have a take-down latch, which is recessed into the forestock. Cutting the barrel and stock down to 12" would take you through the latch.

Is the fore-end screwed on? If that's the case, you have an old gun, and it may have been cut before the 1968 Firearms Act. It might be grandfathered, but I don't know what the laws are like in Colorado. If there's a liscencing requirement, and the gun doesn't have a paper trail, you're screwed.

Basically, you have a "firearm" that was changed to a "handgun." Prior to '68 it was legal to cut down a long arm into a handgun, and it would still be legal if subsequent owners followed transfer laws.

So the questions are:

1) Was it legal to cut it when it was cut?

2) After it was cut, did previous owners treat it as a "handgun" and obey applicable law?

3) Can you prove any of this?

The best thing for you to do, IMHO, is cut the thing up into little, tiny pieces, and introduce it to the landfill.

Taking it to the police is only going to result in questions like, "Where did you get it, from whom did you get it, when did you get it..."

Dispose of it, but dispose of it responsibly.

[Exgineer]

Aw, crap.

I was going on memory, there.

I think it was the '68 act that defined what was a handgun and what wasn't, in addition to restricting mail-orders and interstate transfers, but I could be wrong*.

Can I get a little legal help here?

*This doesn't even begin to address state laws and local ordinances, you realize.

[TV time]

I hate to give any more information. I kind of feel that I am causing you guys to become accessories or something (Mods, if you feel this is the case you might close this down). But OK, it is a single barrel, with a top break and the breech lock is immediately above the trigger housing. FWIW, it was, and I guess is, for that matter, a Harrington-Richardson Shotgun.

Exgineer, I don't know the answers to questions #1 nor #2. As for #3. No.

Maud'Dib, it is illegal because it has no other purpose other than shooting people (sort of like assault weapons in that sense). It is useless for hunting and shooting skeet. The reason people would cut one down is that it makes it easier to hide and take into places where one shouldn't have weapons.

DougC, the nearest sporting goods store that carries guns is 85 miles away and I would prefer not to transport the thing. Rube E., The nearest bus station is also the same distance away. Anyway as has been mentioned, carrying a sawed-off shotgun into a bus station is not a great idea, at least not in my mind.

[norinew]

Bury it somewhere remote, deep enough that a metal detector will not find it, and forget you ever saw it. A sawed off shotgun has no value as a defensive or hunting weapon, there are much better guns for both uses that are legal, and the risk of keeping it is just to great. If I were you I would consider that 50 bucks the price of an education.

[BioHazard]

Long story here, it may help...

My grandparents were selling their house about 2 years ago, and the city they lived in required asbestos inspections for all houses over a certain age. The inspector came in and while he was checking the attic he found my great-great grandfather's shot gun up there. I don't remeber what make/model it was but it was a shotgun that was under the legal requirements for length, but that was because that was the way it was manufactured. It was a VERY OLD antique. The inspector mentioned it to my grandfather and didnt really say much about it. The next day, several ATF reps knocked on the door asking about it. They looked at the gun and gave him some type of "ticket" and said he had 78 hrs to turn in the gun or have a gunsmith alter it to either render it unusable, or be able to only fire a different type of shell.

My grandfather paid almost $200 to have it altered and when it came back it was so screwed up it couldn't close. Anyway he mailed something from the gunsmith and that was the end of the ATF problem.

[Crafter_Man]

Originally posted by DougC
If you have a local sporting goods/gun shop, you could phone them up and ask their advice on it, as to if it would be worth aquiring a new barrel and stock for. There's a slim chance the receiver might be worth more than $50, and if you explain how you got it and it's obvious you're asking how to make it legal again, they're not likely to turn you over... Call a small local store though, not the area Sports Authority or Wal-Mart. They won't know, or may call it in...
Um, my advice is to not tell anyone about this thing.

Do not in any way let the BATF know about this thing. Even if you render in inoperable, your name will be put on a list.

Bottom line is this: Keep your mouth shut and get rid of the damn thing. If you want to chop it up into little pieces and then get rid of it, fine. Just get id of it. Use your imagination.

[bdgr]

An H&R break open shotgun isnt worth much more than 50 bucks complete, and break open shotguns the barrel has to be hand fitted. Barrel is easy to remove though, just remove the forearm, and the barrel hinges down and off. Get rid of it, quick, and keep your fingerprints off of it.

[Johnny L.A.]

As I recall, Harrington & Richardsons are very inexpensive shotguns. I think you can probably buy a new one for $150 or so. I'd say it's not worth converting to a legal length, but that's your choice.

It probably has a screw-on barrel, so you can probably remove the barrel with Vice-Grips or by twisting it in a vice. The stock will be held on with screws. If you do nothing else, get rid of the barrel now! Don't just cut it off at the receiver, as any bit of it left could be considered a "short barrel". Remove it immediately. Then destroy it, if possible.

I should point out that I am not a lawyer, and do not know all of the laws that may be involved. But for damned sure, you've got to make it "legal" quickly.

I would not damage the serial number, because I think removing a serial number from a firearm is a federal offence.

If you decide to destroy the firearm, a cutting torch should do the job. Maybe you can rent one. But if you're going to go to all that trouble, try removing (and destroying) the offensive bits first.

This is very serious. I wouldn't even [i]touch a gun I thought was illegal, let alone accept it as collateral on a gambling loan. But now that you have it, the safest thing to do is to destroy the short barrel after removing it and remove the stock. In California it's illegal to transfer a firearm without going through a gun dealer. It wouldn't surprise me if Colorado has similar laws. If such is the case, then you can be in trouble for just having the receiver. But the main thing is to get rid of the barrel and stock.

Remove and destroy the barrel.

Get rid of the stock as well.

I know I'm repeating myself, but it is very, very important that you get rid of the gun or at least the offending parts immediately.

[handsomeharry]

first thing to do is speak in a different tense about a "friend" and use the term "hypothetically" a whole whole bunch. next thing, wrap it in a trash bag and go to some trash dumpster near you and pitch it in. make sure that there are no witnesses. let someone else be the hero at a poker party. lol

[DougC]

DougC, the nearest sporting goods store that carries guns is 85 miles away and I would prefer not to transport the thing.
- - - You don't have to take it there first, just phone them and say how you came to have it, and what they'd suggest you do with it. Gunshops don't make it a regular habit of turning over customers with semi-legal weapons; around where I live they just refuse to work on them, unless you want it repaired back to legal configuration--which they will -quietly- do, if it's possible. If it's not possible, they just say as much, and turn you away. .... Note that if they call the police or ATF, that casts a certain amount of suspicion on them also. ~ The only way to find out what to do with it is to ask someone who will actually know, and they will will be able to tell you if it's worth repairing and how much it will cost to do, or refer you to a gunsmith who can tell you. There's no need to panic, sawed-off shotguns are more common than many think: people find this sort of stuff in "grampa's estate" all the time.
~

[Crafter_Man]

Note to Moderators:

While I admit I have enjoyed participating in this thread, and am compassionate to TV time’s predicament, I must also urge for this thread to be closed ASAP. This is primarily for the benefit of the SDMB and the Chicago Reader, as I am confident your lawyers would not like what’s being discussed here…

[DrMatrix]

I agree.

This is closed.

DrMatrix - General questions Moderator