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SenorBeef
12-10-2002, 08:25 AM
I know most cops will give you at least 5 mph before they'll pull you over for speeding, but if they wanted to, could they pull you over for a 1 mph violation?

I assume there's some margin of error for their radar gear, and I'm thinking perhaps there needs to be a certain amount over the speed limit before a ticket can be given.

Or, perhaps, they can ticket you at 1 mph over the limit, but you could easily argue in court that their radar is off, etc. and get out of the ticket.

deathawk
12-10-2002, 08:33 AM
Can you? Yes. Will they? Probably not for reasons you note. However, if your ticket is for 1 mile over, your better bet is to have the speedometer calibrated by a licensed mechanic. The cops do have calibration tests they can produce regarding the radar, so I don't think that line is as easy as you think. While 1 mph over the limit is not the reason, you should consider that many states have a second class of speeding that is considered reckless driving. So being able to show the difference there is important.

Uncommon Sense
12-10-2002, 08:39 AM
Can they --- Yes, Will the judge throw it out ---- 99 percent of the time.

Typically (I know several cops) they will not engage you unless you are giong 6 over in a residential area, and 11 over on the freeway. `Course every cop is different so read the Disclaimer.

deathawk
12-10-2002, 08:40 AM
Meant to add this: In MD a few years ago they did have some "zero tolerance" campaigns where they did ticket anyone clocked over the limit. None of these tickets were thrown out as far as I am aware. If any were, it would have only been because someone brought spedometer calibration results with them to indicate that it could have been an error resulting from that, not the radar.

Speeding is Speeding, no matter how much over you are.

Mangetout
12-10-2002, 08:58 AM
It is rumoured that (here in the UK) they allow as much as 10% over to allow for calibration tolerances, but that doesn't mean you can drive at 77Mph in a 70 limit with impunity because if your speedometer is off, you could actually be doing 80+ when it only reads 77.

RickJay
12-10-2002, 09:04 AM
On freeways here in Ontario, I have NEVER heard of someone being pulled over for doing less than 120 km/h. The limit is 100. That's a wiggle room of 12.5 MPH.

jjimm
12-10-2002, 09:09 AM
AFAIK, speedo calibration is the responsibility of the car driver - so incorrect calibration iss no excuse in court. One would assume that cop cars have correctly calibrated cars, so, as Petit Pois says, 10% leeway WRT their speedo is given.

mazzer
12-10-2002, 09:15 AM
By the by, here in the U.S. at least, you can get a speeding ticket while driving under the posted limit. If the officer considers your speed to be unsafe under the current conditions (rain, snow, etc.), then he/she can ticket you. The speed limit is the maximum allowable under optimum conditions, so be careful not to take it for granted.

bordelond
12-10-2002, 09:19 AM
SenorBeef, my father was once actually pulled over and ticketed for going 61 mph in a 60 mph zone. It can happen.

BF
12-10-2002, 09:23 AM
AFAIK, speedo calibration is the responsibility of the car driver - so incorrect calibration iss no excuse in court. One would assume that cop cars have correctly calibrated cars, so, as Petit Pois says, 10% leeway WRT their speedo is given.Same goes for some jurisdictions in the US. If you get clocked doing 57 in a 55, get your speedometer calibrated and it shows it's off my 2mph, then you can be convicted of improper equipment, which probably means no points, but you're still paying a fine.

Meant to add this: In MD a few years ago they did have some "zero tolerance" campaigns where they did ticket anyone clocked over the limit. Correct. My father got a ticket on 495 near Indian Head for 56. The result of this campaign was that MD almost lost federal funding because they had the most ticketed drivers in the nation, or east coast, something like that. Needless to say, they chilled out, but their speed limit signs on 495 say STILL!! 55 MPH.

mrcrow
12-10-2002, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by Mangetout
It is rumoured that (here in the UK) they allow as much as 10% over to allow for calibration tolerances, but that doesn't mean you can drive at 77Mph in a 70 limit with impunity because if your speedometer is off, you could actually be doing 80+ when it only reads 77.
i second that
i had a car whose speedo was well out..probably more than 10% low
fortunately a friend who was tailing me in his mg asked why i drove so fast.
got the garage to check and re-do whatever and it was amazing the difference.
its funny how the numbers make it seem safe when it isnt.
my daughter got a nip for 35 in a 30 zone but it was a red light jump as well so i dont know if the speed was the criteria
i go along with the 10%
apparrently if you are doing over 30mph over the motorway limit it is instant loss of licence.:)

handy
12-10-2002, 10:05 AM
It depends on the Speed Zone Survey (California) too. If the survey says the safe speed is 30mph & they post a limit of 25mph & you are caught doing 26mph, your ticket would probably be thrown out.

skaterboarder87
12-10-2002, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by deathawk
[B]Meant to add this: In MD a few years ago they did have some "zero tolerance" campaigns where they did ticket anyone clocked over the limit. None of these tickets were thrown out as far as I am aware.

I'm guessing this "zero tolerance" event you speak of was actually referring to the procedure after you get pulled over, meaning the cops didn't give any warnings. If the cops were actually pulling people for only 1mph over, they'd have to stationed 24/7.

zuma
12-10-2002, 11:03 AM
Come on... no cop is going to pull you over for going 2 mph over the limit. Not gonna happen. Unless of course you are driving around in a crappy 20 year-old bondo-held-together car, a 1978 sedan with thumping stereo, or another suspicious vehicle.

If you are not driving in a suspicious vehicle, you have nothing to worry about. And a cop can find any reason to pull you over, no matter what your speed. If you are not driving a crapmobile and your tags are in order, you have nothing to worry about.

Rex Fenestrarum
12-10-2002, 11:07 AM
Well, in the state of Georgia only the State Patrol (acting as a direct agent of the state) can give you a ticket for going 1 mile over the limit - not that I've ever heard of anyone getting such a ticket.

On the other hand, all municipal or county officers (acting as a "delegate" of the state) CANNOT give you a ticket for such an infraction. In fact, if you look up the fine table for any city or county in Georgia, you'll see that the fines for speeding don't start until 11+ mph over the limit. Also, because the county or city cops are acting "indirectly" as agents of the state, any ticket they issue via radar is subject to regulations that don't apply to the State Patrol, such as the physical visibility of the officer, the incline of the area where you were nabbed and the aforementioned equipment calibration issue.

Your state should have something similar.

Bongmaster
12-10-2002, 11:18 AM
My girlfriend's aunt was ticketed in Spenserville Ohio about 8 years ago for doing 26mph in a 25mph zone. I was outraged, but she just paid it.

deathawk
12-10-2002, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by skaterboarder87
I'm guessing this "zero tolerance" event you speak of was actually referring to the procedure after you get pulled over, meaning the cops didn't give any warnings. If the cops were actually pulling people for only 1mph over, they'd have to stationed 24/7.

No it was for the violation itself. Not 24/7, but as another poster noted, they were camped out on 495 and other major highways and ticketing for any speed over limit. 1mph or 15mph - both got you pulled over. During rush hour and off peak. I forgot exactly why they stopped the campaigns per se., but BF's explanation sounds right for some reason.

Spoke
12-10-2002, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Rex Fenestrarum
Well, in the state of Georgia only the State Patrol (acting as a direct agent of the state) can give you a ticket for going 1 mile over the limit - not that I've ever heard of anyone getting such a ticket.

On the other hand, all municipal or county officers (acting as a "delegate" of the state) CANNOT give you a ticket for such an infraction. In fact, if you look up the fine table for any city or county in Georgia, you'll see that the fines for speeding don't start until 11+ mph over the limit. Also, because the county or city cops are acting "indirectly" as agents of the state, any ticket they issue via radar is subject to regulations that don't apply to the State Patrol, such as the physical visibility of the officer, the incline of the area where you were nabbed and the aforementioned equipment calibration issue.

Your state should have something similar.

Sort of correct.

In Georgia, county and municipal cops can't use RADAR to give you a ticket unless you are going at least 10 miles over the posted speed limit. They could, however, pace you to give you a ticket for going less than 10 mph over the limit. (That is, follow behind you to match your speed.)

The State Patrol can do pretty much whatever they want, including giving you a ticket for going 1 mph over the speed limit.

Regardless of legalities, virtually all cops in GA will give you at least a 9 mph "cushion" before ticketing you. The only exceptions would occur in circumstances zuma notes, where the cops are looking for a reason to pull over a "suspicious" vehicle.

Spoke
12-10-2002, 11:45 AM
Hmm. Didn't mean to sound snarky, there, Rex. Sorry about that.

Dread Pirate Jimbo
12-10-2002, 12:23 PM
Here's a whole mess o' things to mull over:

I have heard from a reliable source that in the early 70s, when police were just learning to work with radar technology, a police officer clocked an oak tree travelling at 25 mph. That led to a long period of time where police wouldn't ticket drivers who were just barely over the limit because the calibration of the radar was not considered reliable.

More recently, with much more sophisticated radar guns which are far more consistent and accurate, a cop friend of mine here in Calgary has told me that police here won't even look at you under normal circumstances until you're doing 16+ km/h over, not because they don't trust their radar, but because below that is only worth one demerit, and over that is a three demerit penalty--it's not worth their while to get you for such a minor infraction. However, Calgary police also run zero tolerance campaigns a couple times a year, with much publicity, so drivers are expected to be on their toes for a week or so.

The only speeding ticket I've ever received was a photo radar ticket for 17 km/h over. I sent the cheque within a half hour of receiving the ticket. My dad got pinched for 9 km/h over a few years back, on a section of highway where the posted speed slows from 100km/h to 80.

Oh, and I can corroborate Rickjay's note about Ontario speeds. I learned to drive while living out there and got yelled at more by my driving instructor for hovering around the 100 km/h speed limit than I did for staying in the flow of traffic at around 115. When I was there, you didn't dare stray below 110 on highway 401, unless you really wanted to be run over by a semi.

occ
12-10-2002, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by deathawk
Meant to add this: In MD a few years ago they did have some "zero tolerance" campaigns where they did ticket anyone clocked over the limit. None of these tickets were thrown out as far as I am aware. If any were, it would have only been because someone brought spedometer calibration results with them to indicate that it could have been an error resulting from that, not the radar.

Speeding is Speeding, no matter how much over you are.

Yeah, but the above wasn't law enforcement, it was politics. One mile hour over would likely (a) get you out of the ticket, and (b) get the cop a talking-to for wasting the court's time. Unless, of course, some silly zero-tolerance campaign is in progress, in which case all bets are off.

Man, is there a more wonderful phrase than "zero tolerance"? Definitely in everybody's best interest!

occ
12-10-2002, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by jjimm
AFAIK, speedo calibration is the responsibility of the car driver - so incorrect calibration iss no excuse in court. One would assume that cop cars have correctly calibrated cars, so, as Petit Pois says, 10% leeway WRT their speedo is given.

The calibration tolerance in question is that of the radar gun, not the speedometer. However, if speeding really were enforced at the 1-mile-per-over level, it might well be an excuse, since I'd guess the average car's speedometer is off by at least 1 mph, dependant on speed.

Max Torque
12-10-2002, 01:06 PM
What the federal government did... was declare, in 1974, a National Pretend Speed Limit of 55. This has been strictly observed everywhere except on the actual roads, where the real speed limit--the one actually enforced by the police--is a secret, unposted number ranging between 63 and 78, unless an individual police officer does not care for the way you look, in which case the speed limit is zero.-- Dave Barry

So, yes, you can get a ticket for one MPH over the limit. Doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

Not long ago, while driving to the law school to take a final exam, I noticed something that really pissed me off: cops were hanging out in the bus stops on campus, running radar. I can't believe that they were such pricks that they would take advantage of the fact that students would probably be speeding if they were running late for an exam, so that they could write tickets and delay them even further. That's about five kinds of mean.

Bearflag70
12-10-2002, 01:12 PM
California Vehicle Code:

22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.

22349. (a) Except as provided in Section 22356, no person may drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than 65 miles per hour.

22356. (a) [The Department of Transportation and California Highway Patrol may raise the speed limit to 70 MPH on certain highways and shall cause appropriate signs to be erected giving notice thereof.]
(b) No person shall drive a vehicle upon that highway at a speed greater than 70 miles per hour, as posted.

When these laws went into effect, raising the 55 MPH limit, the CHP implemented a temporary "zero tolerance" policy and issued tickets to drivers going 66 MPH.

In Conceivable
12-10-2002, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by bordelond
SenorBeef, my father was once actually pulled over and ticketed for going 61 mph in a 60 mph zone. It can happen.

My father told me the same thing happened to him. Of course he told me that when I was 15 and he was teaching me how to drive. He later confessed that it never happened. ;)

Not saying that it didn't happen to your father. But, I have never actually seen a ticket for 1 mile over. Can't a difference of 1 mile an hour be accounted for by having the wrong amount of air in your tires?

badmana
12-10-2002, 02:15 PM
According to speedometer error allowance by the manufacture you could easily fight a +/-3 kph (about 1.5 mph) ticket. Car speedometers are not designed by the car company to be absolutely accurate. 1-3 percent off is nothing special.

car and driver (http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/features/2002/april/200204_feature_speedometer.xml?keywords=speedometer)

and same site, different article (http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/features/2002/april/200204_feature_speedometer_tables.xml?keywords=speedometer)


One other point. When changing tires you will also affect your speedometer reading. There are too many variations to account for, so I doubt many cops will actually ticket someone for 1-3 mph over. Most judges wouldn't bother and would probably get annoyed at the police officer.

I have received a 145 over a 100 zone (about 90 over 60) that was shot down to less than 129 ($350 ticket down to $100) so I'd love do see what would happen with a 1 kph over ticket.

Eberfinn
12-10-2002, 02:16 PM
Here in Florida there is a law on the books that you cannot be ticketed for going 1-5 mph over the speed limit. This is due to the fact that in the small town of Waldo the local police was supporting the town finances by ticketing people for going over the speed limit by just a few miles per hour. You can recieve a warning and after three warnings you can then be ticketed.

samarm
12-10-2002, 02:43 PM
I'm sure I read somewhere that some vehicle manufacturers make their speedos so that when they read 50mph (for example) the car is actually doing 49mph.

Anyone else hear of this?

Pushkin
12-10-2002, 02:48 PM
I was pulled over by a cop who had me driving at 43mph in a 30mph zone with his radar gun. Apart from taking my name and address I was allowed to proceed. I was told it was only because I was below the 45mph speed limit for learner drivers in the UK.
Disclaimer: Speeding is never right kids, but it was at the edge of a small town with a very wide straight stretch of road so I doubt any harm would have come of it. I always slow down in suburbia and the town centres. Dangerous not to if nothing else.

elmwood
12-10-2002, 03:31 PM
Several years ago, I got a ticket in Kenmore, New York for driving 33 MPH on a street where the posted speed limit was 30. The judge wouldn't hear of dismissing the case for a de minimus infraction; other defendants in the courtroom were cited for driving 2 MPH over.

Buffalo's suburbs are notorious for draconian traffic enforcement, and the area has a national reputation for slow drivers. Residents are terrified to drive above the speed limit, especially on expressways; sweeps are conducted several times a month, and seeing 15 or 20 police cars lined up on the shoulder waiting to chase speeders clocked a few hundred meters away.

Mangetout
12-10-2002, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by samarm
I'm sure I read somewhere that some vehicle manufacturers make their speedos so that when they read 50mph (for example) the car is actually doing 49mph.

Anyone else hear of this? Certainly isn't the case in my car; on UK motorways, the emergency telephones are exactly a mile apart; driving at exactly 60mph (really difficult to do unless it's a flat stretch), it takes me exactly 60 seconds to get from one to the next (improving the accuracy of the test by measuring the total time taken to pass 5 of them).

handy
12-10-2002, 06:27 PM
" 22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property."

Yep, that's basically what a speed limit is. You can't drive faster than is safe for conditions. If its safe to do 26 in a 25 zone, well?

Bob55
12-10-2002, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by zuma
Come on... no cop is going to pull you over for going 2 mph over the limit. Not gonna happen.


Police in some nicer suburbs outside Orlando (Windimere, Bay Hill) are notorious for giving tickets to people going 32mph in a 30mph zone.

SenorBeef
12-10-2002, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by chriszarate
By the by, here in the U.S. at least, you can get a speeding ticket while driving under the posted limit. If the officer considers your speed to be unsafe under the current conditions (rain, snow, etc.), then he/she can ticket you. The speed limit is the maximum allowable under optimum conditions, so be careful not to take it for granted.

Is it arbitrary? I mean, if a few snowflakes are falling, can he ticket you for going 40 in a 40 if he deems it unsafe? Or is there some sort of objectivity built in?

Jet Jaguar
12-10-2002, 09:26 PM
I had a friend in college who was ticketed for 1 mph over, doing 36 mph in a 35 mph zone (the local cops had a habit of clocking students on the road coming out of the university's parking lot). He fought the ticket and got it dismissed because he found the legal allowable tolerance for a speedometer and that 1 mph was within the tolerance.

amarone
12-10-2002, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by spoke-
Sort of correct.

In Georgia, county and municipal cops can't use RADAR to give you a ticket unless you are going at least 10 miles over the posted speed limit. They could, however, pace you to give you a ticket for going less than 10 mph over the limit. (That is, follow behind you to match your speed.)

The State Patrol can do pretty much whatever they want, including giving you a ticket for going 1 mph over the speed limit.


I'd also heard that in Geargia the cop with the radar had to be visible for a certain number of feet - 500, I think. Can anyone confirm or correct that?

I got a ticket for 9mph over in GA, but it was a state cop (79 in a 70).

dqa
12-10-2002, 11:36 PM
I addressed this question in an old thread: Car color and tickets?? (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=104568)

In the late 90's a study was done of two months worth of tickets written by state troopers in New Jersey. Of the 10 tickets that were written for drivers going 56mph, 8 were written by a single officer.

Blown & Injected
12-11-2002, 01:13 AM
Marylander here. I remember the even one mph over is speeding deal. It is for real but only lasted for a short time.

The man around here will usually not even look at one doing 10 mph over - there are so many doing far greater and more stupid things.

ElwoodCuse
12-11-2002, 02:30 AM
I've been driving the Pennsylvania Turnpike and Route 81 for quite some time, and I've found that even 10 miles over the limit generally won't catch the attention of stateys, because they could care less if you are doing 75 in 65. They would rather pull over the dude doing 85 or 90.

mrcrow
12-11-2002, 06:23 AM
the problem in the uk is that when you get a speeding ticket you also get 3 points on your licence
10 and you can lose it.
paying up £60 is the least of the problem
also just for interest most of the speed cameras are empty of film for a lot of the time because it costs a lot to fill er up
they do an actual dummy camera with flashing lights only
the red light camera is always kept filled...:cool:

Spoke
12-11-2002, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by amarone
I'd also heard that in Geargia the cop with the radar had to be visible for a certain number of feet - 500, I think. Can anyone confirm or correct that?

Yes, that's true (http://gnsun1.ganet.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/pub/ocode/ocgsearch?docname=OCode/G/40/14/7).

There are several other restrictions on use of radar by local cops (as apposed to the State Patrol). The idea is to prevent small towns from setting up unfair speed traps as revenue-generating devices. More restrictions here (http://gnsun1.ganet.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/pub/ocode/ocgsearch?docname=OCode/G/40/14/6), here (http://gnsun1.ganet.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/pub/ocode/ocgsearch?docname=OCode/G/40/14/9), and here (http://gnsun1.ganet.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/pub/ocode/ocgsearch?docname=OCode/G/40/14/11). The latter code section provides for suspension of a locality's permit to use radar devices if it is using them for revenue-generating purposes rather than to promote public safety.

With regard to the OP's question, here's the code section (http://gnsun1.ganet.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/pub/ocode/ocgsearch?docname=OCode/G/40/14/8) governing how much margin for error local cops in Georgia must give when using radar. As I mentioned before, the State Patrol is not governed by these restrictions. Only local cops.

I got a ticket for 9mph over in GA, but it was a state cop (79 in a 70).

Unusual. Were you actually going 79, or were you maybe going a little faster, and the cop did you a favor and wrote your speed down a bit? Usually they won't stop you on the interstate unless you're at least 10 mph over the limit (or unless they're looking for an excuse to stop a "suspicious" vehicle).

amarone
12-11-2002, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by spoke-
Yes, that's true (http://gnsun1.ganet.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/pub/ocode/ocgsearch?docname=OCode/G/40/14/7).
Unusual. Were you actually going 79, or were you maybe going a little faster, and the cop did you a favor and wrote your speed down a bit? Usually they won't stop you on the interstate unless you're at least 10 mph over the limit (or unless they're looking for an excuse to stop a "suspicious" vehicle).
I believe that the 79 was accurate. I normally try stay within 10 of the limit and set the cruise control at 9mph over. I can't remember whether I'd set it that time or not - it was 5 years ago. The weather was good and the road was quiet. Maybe the cop needed to give more tickets to make his quota. I was certainly very surprised to be stopped.

redvett
08-11-2017, 03:24 PM
No you cannot. Vehicle MFR's in the USA are required by Federal law to be within +- 7 MPH when manufactured. You may be written up BUT you can fight and beat anything under 7 MPH.

markn+
08-11-2017, 03:47 PM
Zombies can be ticketed for driving at any speed.

However, nolo.com (http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/beat-ticket-book/chapter5-1.html) entirely disagrees with you:


In short, an officer can still ticket you for driving at or below the posted limit, if it is unsafe to do so. This is true in all states.

Emphasis added.

Chronos
08-11-2017, 03:49 PM
You can fight and beat a ticket for going 30 over. It won't often work, but you can try.

The only true answer to the GQ is that yes, you can get a ticket for any measurable amount over the limit.

CookingWithGas
08-11-2017, 04:19 PM
No you cannot. Vehicle MFR's in the USA are required by Federal law to be within +- 7 MPH when manufactured. You may be written up BUT you can fight and beat anything under 7 MPH.First, this is not factually correct (https://www.thrillist.com/cars/your-speedometer-is-wrong-speed-calibration-inaccuracy-in-german-american-and-japanese-cars). For ordinary passenger vehicles, there’s no law in the U.S. that regulates speedometers, but U.S. manufacturers (and most Japanese as well) subscribe to a standard called SAE J1226. Your speedometer reading must be within a range of plus or minus four percent off, but that’s four percent over the entire range of the speedometer, and that range can then be shifted in what’s called a bias.Commercial vehicles are required to be accurate (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/393.82) within 5 MPH at 50 MPH (10% at 50 MPH).

Second, you can't be assured of beating a speeding ticket based solely on the accuracy of your speedometer. Having an inaccurate speedometer does not relieve you from having to obey the law. Maybe some judges would dismiss it, but it's far from certain.

watchwolf49
08-11-2017, 04:37 PM
I can say with complete confidence that if you admit in a court of law that you were 1 mph over the lawful speed limit ... you will be found guilty of driving over the lawful speed limit ... please don't ask how I know that ... [ashamed look] ...

SamuelA
08-11-2017, 05:06 PM
You can get a ticket even if you weren't traveling over the limit and no measurement was taken. http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/06/visual_speed_estimates_by_poli.html

purplehearingaid
08-11-2017, 05:10 PM
I heard of someone getting a speeding ticket for going one mile over the limit.

I know someone that got 3 speeding tickets with a few months and he had to go to anger management classes. The police told the class if a police has to get out of their car in the rain or snow b/c someone is speeding they'll be pissed off and most likely give a person a ticket no matter how many miles they were over the limit.

Maeganspop
08-11-2017, 05:30 PM
I was once given a warning for going 31 in a 30. Should I have refused the warning and asked to be ticketed instead?

My thinking now is that the ticket would have been beaten easily. Maybe a week later after the warning I get clocked at 10mph over the limit. Since I have the warning on record, I may be less likely to get a warning for the 10mph over.

Can you even asked to be ticketed instead of receiving a warning?

Bear_Nenno
08-11-2017, 05:31 PM
Not in Florida. You can get pulled over and warned, but the penalty for less than 5 over is a warning per statute.

anomalous1
08-11-2017, 05:31 PM
Speed limit on the highways and expressways here are often limited to the 50-65 range in and around Chicago... everybody does 70-75. Streets the limit is usually 20-35. Everyone drives 35-40. Either the cops have better things to do, or they can't pull everyone over. God forbid I drive 30, people always pass me and I have had cops passing me (illegally/bike lanes) as well. Never heard of anyone being pulled over for doing 1mph. Even the speed traps here only give out a warning unless its 6-11 mph over the limit. I suppose it all depends on how bored the cops are too.

kunilou
08-11-2017, 05:38 PM
No you cannot. Vehicle MFR's in the USA are required by Federal law to be within +- 7 MPH when manufactured. You may be written up BUT you can fight and beat anything under 7 MPH.

I got a speeding ticket, had my speedometer checked, and it was off. The judge simply changed the charge from speeding to "non-working equipment." That kept me from getting points on my license, but I still had to pay the fine.

bob++
08-11-2017, 06:07 PM
There are a few wrong statements about UK speeding law above:

Technically 1mph over is breaking the law, but the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) suggests police forces don’t prosecute until drivers exceed a margin of error of 10 per cent of the speed limit to take into account driver concentration, plus 2mph for speedometer error. This is NOT law, but a guideline that will mostly be followed if speeding is the only offence.

You will not suffer an instant loss of a licence, even if you are doing 100 plus in a 70 zone. There are three levels of penalty - Band A is 3 points on your licence and a fine of around 50% of your weekly income. Band B means 4 to 6 points on your licence, or disqualification for between 7 and 28 days, plus a fine of 100% of your weekly income. (but only after a court hearing), and Band C – This is for the most egregious speeding. Band C means 6 points on your licence or disqualification for between 7 and 56 days, as well as a fine of 150% of your weekly income (court again). For Band A offences a speed awareness course may be offered instead of points and a fine.

All drivers who get 12 or more active penalty points are disqualified at court for at least 6 months.

Oh - and the emergency telephones are not exactly one mile apart, only approximately. No good for speedometer calibration.

Doug K.
08-11-2017, 07:32 PM
I'll feed the zombie by saying that I was given a written warning in Oklahoma for going 56 in a 55 some years ago. It was on a 4 lane highway (not an interstate), I had an out of state tag (no, he did not say "You ain't from around heah, boy"), and I had the cruise control set. My speedometer read 55 on the dot, and the trooper was going just a little slower than me. I maintained my speed and passed him (very slowly). He turned on his lights right after i pulled back into the right lane. He said I was going 56 and that there was zero tolerance for speed. I told him I had my cruise set at 55. He said my speedometer must be off and gave me a written warning.

Some years later when I got a GPS receiver I discovered that the speedometer is off, but the other way. When it says 55 I'm actually going 50. I have to set it at 66 to be really going 55.

ftg
08-12-2017, 08:34 AM
In my state:

Local cops cannot ticket you unless you are going over at 5 mph over the limit. This is to deter small town speed traps a tiny bit. State Patrol can nail you for 1 over.

But ...

No penalties kick in until you go at least 5 over. So you can get a ticket that is effectively a warning.

In addition, most forces have a "slop" allowance of 5 mph. So you can go almost 10 over on local roads.

All assuming otherwise average conditions, not a school zone, etc. YMMV.

Loach
08-12-2017, 09:17 AM
I can say with complete confidence that if you admit in a court of law that you were 1 mph over the lawful speed limit ... you will be found guilty of driving over the lawful speed limit ... please don't ask how I know that ... [ashamed look] ...

Oh yeah I've seen that played out in court.
"Your honor there is no way I was doing 40 in a 25. I looked down at my speedometer and it said 30."
"So you're defense is that you were speeding but not too much?"
"Yes?"
"Guilty."

I heard of someone getting a speeding ticket for going one mile over the limit.

I know someone that got 3 speeding tickets with a few months and he had to go to anger management classes. The police told the class if a police has to get out of their car in the rain or snow b/c someone is speeding they'll be pissed off and most likely give a person a ticket no matter how many miles they were over the limit.

It's not possible to get out of the car for speeding while it's raining if you never turn on the radar unit. Rookies.

I was once given a warning for going 31 in a 30. Should I have refused the warning and asked to be ticketed instead?

My thinking now is that the ticket would have been beaten easily. Maybe a week later after the warning I get clocked at 10mph over the limit. Since I have the warning on record, I may be less likely to get a warning for the 10mph over.

Can you even asked to be ticketed instead of receiving a warning?

You can always talk yourself into a ticket.

It depends on your state whether a warning is put on your record or if it available to another officer.

SamuelA
08-12-2017, 09:42 AM
I was once given a warning for going 31 in a 30. Should I have refused the warning and asked to be ticketed instead?

My thinking now is that the ticket would have been beaten easily. Maybe a week later after the warning I get clocked at 10mph over the limit. Since I have the warning on record, I may be less likely to get a warning for the 10mph over.

Can you even asked to be ticketed instead of receiving a warning?

Umm, what negative consequence did you face for the warning? Obviously the interaction was logged by the police officer, but it would have been logged even if you had gotten a ticket and then gotten the ticket dismissed. As a side note, I've gotten a ticket dismissed, and not only did it cost me an attorney's fee ($120), but also I still had to pay court costs ($80). So $200 - if I had paid the ticket immediately for a discount, it would have cost me less. (although it would have now been on my record and cost me higher insurance rates)

TSBG
08-12-2017, 02:06 PM
In CA I believe you have to not only be over the limit, but in the judgement of the officer, you have to be going so fast as to be hazardous to others. I think the intent is to prevent speed traps, and ticky-tack 1 mile over tickets.

CC
08-13-2017, 08:18 AM
I can say with complete confidence that if you admit in a court of law that you were 1 mph over the lawful speed limit ... you will be found guilty of driving over the lawful speed limit ... please don't ask how I know that ... [ashamed look] ...
Anecdote: While waiting in traffic court for my turn, I observed a young man pleading his speeding case. He had swerved and sped up to get around some sudden impediment and said that he "just barely" went over the speed limit for a moment. The judge said, "Ok, so you say you were speeding, and the policeman says you were speeding, and you want me to say you weren't speeding? Guilty."

Keeve
08-13-2017, 10:45 PM
I am very surprised that I didn't post this when the thread was new, and this happened 20 years ago. Well, better late than never.

It was sometime in the 1990s, and a reporter for the Newark (NJ) Star Ledger decided to look at every single speeding ticket written in NJ for that calendar year, and see if he could find anything interesting. As he expected, the tickets were quite varied, for all sorts of speeds on all sorts of roads.

He also found - as he expected - that there was an unusually large number of tickets for 14 mph over the limit, and he attributed this to the fact that the fine for a 15+ violation was much higher than the fine for a 14+ violation. He figured that a large number of police had mercy on drivers who were caught going around 20 mph or so too fast, and they fudged the numbers. Okay, nothing too surprising here.

What was surprising was that in the course of the entire year, exactly one LEO did write exactly one speeding ticket for a driver who was going exactly one mph over the limit. The reporter's curiousity went into overdrive, and tracked down the LEO to interview him. Would he still remember the incident? Yes, he surely did. There was over a foot of snow on the ground and it was still falling, and "this guy in an SUV is driving like he owns the road. You bet I gave him a ticket!"

My understanding was that if the SUV was going one mph UNDER the limit, he could theoretically ticket him for unsafe driving in such conditions, but that would be too troublesome to prove. But one mph too high was all he needed to bust him dead to rights.

Fotheringay-Phipps
08-14-2017, 11:22 AM
He also found - as he expected - that there was an unusually large number of tickets for 14 mph over the limit, and he attributed this to the fact that the fine for a 15+ violation was much higher than the fine for a 14+ violation. He figured that a large number of police had mercy on drivers who were caught going around 20 mph or so too fast, and they fudged the numbers. Okay, nothing too surprising here.More likely, the drivers went to court and plea-bargained the tickets down to 14 over. Prosecutors are very flexible about this type of thing. (I myself have done this, though I went for 9 over, just in case my insurance company distinguishes for 10+.)

yabob
08-14-2017, 12:13 PM
In CA I believe you have to not only be over the limit, but in the judgement of the officer, you have to be going so fast as to be hazardous to others. I think the intent is to prevent speed traps, and ticky-tack 1 mile over tickets.
Side note - at one time CA did allow another form of ticket seemingly simply for revenue generation. The last speeding ticket I got was several years ago. The cop who pulled me over pointed out that he was filling it out in such a way that if I mailed in the fine before the date, they wouldn't report it, so my insurance company wouldn't know about it. Sure enough, that seemed to be the way it worked. I later saw a news item that the state government was revising the rules so local jurisdictions couldn't do this, and making them report the damned things.

Rhodes
08-14-2017, 12:28 PM
I was pulled over by a gated community's rent-a-cop for driving 26 in a 25 zone. Lots of ranting and tough talk from the officer about how they have zero tolerance for such reckless behavior, but no ticket.

I was ticketed for driving 31 in a 30. It was a big fine, too, because it was a school zone. I drove through at 11:05 when the lights were not flashing, but the officer was kind enough to record the time as 10:59. If his clock was off by 6 minutes, how the hell was I supposed to trust his radar? I called the court and was told that there would be an additional $1400 charge if I disputed the ticket and lost, so I just paid up.

John DiFool
08-14-2017, 12:38 PM
Google the correct time, or get the time off of one of the official atomic clock sites (assuming this wasn't back in the Dark Ages before cell phones).

Rhodes
08-14-2017, 12:50 PM
Google the correct time, or get the time off of one of the official atomic clock sites (assuming this wasn't back in the Dark Ages before cell phones).
I was still in college, so must've been about 2002. And a phone screencap after 11:00 would not have proven that I'd driven through the school zone after 11:00. And even if the radar gun's log showed I was correct, I was still 1 mph over the speed limit, thus presumably would have been guilty and subject to the additional $1400 penalty.

Really Not All That Bright
08-14-2017, 01:37 PM
Not in Florida. You can get pulled over and warned, but the penalty for less than 5 over is a warning per statute.
Well, yes and no. A written warning issued under §318.18(3)(b), Fla. Stat., is still a "ticket," it just doesn't come with a fine. And this exclusion does not apply in school zones, where the fine is 50 mph. Finally, the exclusion only applies to penalties under state law. Counties and consolidated local governments may impose their own fines in addition to state fines under §318.18(13), Fla. Stat. (whether or not the state considers the initial infraction serious enough to warrant a fine).

Loach
08-14-2017, 09:20 PM
Side note - at one time CA did allow another form of ticket seemingly simply for revenue generation. The last speeding ticket I got was several years ago. The cop who pulled me over pointed out that he was filling it out in such a way that if I mailed in the fine before the date, they wouldn't report it, so my insurance company wouldn't know about it. Sure enough, that seemed to be the way it worked. I later saw a news item that the state government was revising the rules so local jurisdictions couldn't do this, and making them report the damned things.

That sure as hell would never happen in New Jersey. The state gets 90% of ticket revenue. They would never let a loophole take away their money.

CookingWithGas
08-15-2017, 07:55 PM
More likely, the drivers went to court and plea-bargained the tickets down to 14 over. Prosecutors are very flexible about this type of thing. (I myself have done this, though I went for 9 over, just in case my insurance company distinguishes for 10+.)What state was that? I have only been to traffic court once, in Maryland, 42 years ago. But there was no prosecutor. Just the judge, the cop, and me. You either pleaded guilty or not guilty, but there was nobody to plea bargain with. It wasn't L.A. Law.

SCAdian
08-15-2017, 08:32 PM
Most days, on my way to work I'm doing about 15-20 mph over the limit -- 70-75 in a 55 -- and I'm constantly being passed by other drivers. Don't believe I've ever seen a state trooper in the area.

pkbites
08-16-2017, 06:01 AM
There are a couple of factors to consider:

*What will the prosecutor charge? Currently no prosecutor will charge for only 1 mile over in my jurisdiction

*What will the judges convict at? Judges here will not convict speeding cites unless they are at least 12 over the limit. The exception is if there are other circumstances such as an accident or DUI, etc.

*What does the operators manual say as far as accuracy? Most of the radar/laser equipment I use say they are accurate within 0.5mph. But a few say 1 mph. In other words, how could I write you at 1 over if the manual says the unit could be off by 1. A smart attorney would get to see that manual in discovery and blow the case out of the water. Some of the older radar units said they were accurate +/- 4 mph which is where the 5 over standard came from.

So around here you wouldn't get tagged for 1 over. But given different circumstances and the right speed detection equipment it might happen elsewhere.

ftg
08-16-2017, 08:23 AM
What state was that? I have only been to traffic court once, in Maryland, 42 years ago. But there was no prosecutor. Just the judge, the cop, and me. You either pleaded guilty or not guilty, but there was nobody to plea bargain with. It wasn't L.A. Law.

I've done this ... twice. If you get under a certain level then it's no points that affect your insurance rates.

The first time was and the judge and me and the 2nd time was the ADA and me.

Fotheringay-Phipps
08-16-2017, 09:29 AM
What state was that?NJ.

The article I was commenting about was similarly written about NJ.

Corry El
08-16-2017, 10:07 AM
Most days, on my way to work I'm doing about 15-20 mph over the limit -- 70-75 in a 55 -- and I'm constantly being passed by other drivers. Don't believe I've ever seen a state trooper in the area.

Similarly a road I drive fairly often, Palisades Instate Pkwy in NJ and NY, 50 limit, lots of people doing 70, few less than 60. And there are often patrol cars waiting in 'hides' in the trees along the median (mainly on NJ side). They are obviously not pulling lots of people over for 10 let alone 1 mph over.

But I guess nobody asked the exact % probability everywhere you could get a ticket for 1 mph, just whether it's possible at all. Sure, but very rare I'd say from a driving career of 43 yrs when I've never been pulled over even for a warning about speed, and I usually go at least a few mph over on highways, more if I judge it safe both in driving terms and that I have a 'screen' of people in sight out in front of me going at least as fast. Although when outside my home area on lower speed limit roads I tend to go exactly the speed limit, unless/until it's clear everyone else is going much faster, then I might go a little faster. The anecdotes reflect the likely statistic (if we could ever get one) that getting ticketed a few mph over is a lot more likely on lower speed roads and particularly where protection of pedestrians is an issue, even aside from revenue grubbing.

Bear_Nenno
08-29-2017, 05:37 PM
Well, yes and no. A written warning issued under §318.18(3)(b), Fla. Stat., is still a "ticket," it just doesn't come with a fine. And this exclusion does not apply in school zones, where the fine is 50 mph. Finally, the exclusion only applies to penalties under state law. Counties and consolidated local governments may impose their own fines in addition to state fines under §318.18(13), Fla. Stat. (whether or not the state considers the initial infraction serious enough to warrant a fine).

Thanks for the clarification. Do you know of any local or county governments in Florida that have added a fine for 1-4mph over? I bet if anyone is doing it, Waldo is. Those bastards.

Really Not All That Bright
08-29-2017, 10:39 PM
Off the top of my head, I think Broward County and then a bunch of Waldo-esque shitkicker towns that happen to be near highways.

Bearflag70
09-20-2017, 07:50 PM
In CA I believe you have to not only be over the limit, but in the judgement of the officer, you have to be going so fast as to be hazardous to others. I think the intent is to prevent speed traps, and ticky-tack 1 mile over tickets.



Almost.

The basic speed law is what's reasonable under the circumstances with the posted limit serving as prima facie evidence of what's reasonable.

The MAXIMUM speed law is 65 MPH (unless posted 70 MPH). I recall when the MAX went from 55 to 65/70, CHP was citing drivers for 1 MPH over for a while to send a "strict enforcement" message to the public.


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redvett
09-20-2017, 10:43 PM
1 mph let alone 4-5 mph is not enforcement able. Tire diameter/rpm's per mile vary with MFR's tires in the same size. Take a size 235/55zr17 from Pirelli @ 768 rev's per mile and BF Goodrich 235/55zr17 will have a 766 rev's per mile. Error of the vehicle alone not counting tires will be around +-5-7 mph. Take in account law enforcement eager to meet ticket quotas and you have a SPEEDTRAP. Good honest law enforcement agency's wont ticket less than 10 mph.
Canada had a driver get a ticket recently for 1 mph and the ticket was rescinded.

Almost.

The basic speed law is what's reasonable under the circumstances with the posted limit serving as prima facie evidence of what's reasonable.

The MAXIMUM speed law is 65 MPH (unless posted 70 MPH). I recall when the MAX went from 55 to 65/70, CHP was citing drivers for 1 MPH over for a while to send a "strict enforcement" message to the public.


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Muffin
09-20-2017, 11:29 PM
0.6 miles per hour over the limit. (http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/driver-ticket-1-mph/2017/09/20/id/814770/)

Shagnasty
09-20-2017, 11:58 PM
I know this is a very old thread but it is still relevant. I got a ticket on Christmas Day in New Hampshire several years ago for going 80 miles an hour in a 65 mph zone during a snowstorm (in reality, it was closer to 90 mph but I think the NH State Trooper was trying to give me a break).

Judge all you want but all I was trying to do was get Christmas presents to my kids on their grandparent's farm as early as possible and I told the trooper that. I was pissed about the ticket even though it was completely technically justified so I fought it - for two years by using written deferments. I finally showed up in court when I couldn't do that any more and went through the plea agreement process. I rejected all of them because I wanted to be let off with nothing but they wouldn't let it slide quite that way unless I took my chances in court. That wasn't going to work so I settled for a plea down for 3 - 5mph over the limit. Pay your $40 fine downstairs - cash only and it won't affect your insurance rates.

I am not sure if New Hampshire has a classification for 1 mph over the limit but I can promise you that they do have one for 3 mph over.

Bones Daley
09-21-2017, 09:33 AM
1 mph let alone 4-5 mph is not enforcement able. Tire diameter/rpm's per mile vary with MFR's tires in the same size. Take a size 235/55zr17 from Pirelli @ 768 rev's per mile and BF Goodrich 235/55zr17 will have a 766 rev's per mile. Error of the vehicle alone not counting tires will be around +-5-7 mph. Take in account law enforcement eager to meet ticket quotas and you have a SPEEDTRAP. Good honest law enforcement agency's wont ticket less than 10 mph.
Canada had a driver get a ticket recently for 1 mph and the ticket was rescinded.

Reminds me of that 1974 TV movie "The California Kid" ...as I recall, a very young Martin Sheen blinded the deranged sheriff with science when the sheriff tried to ticket him for going one mph over the limit.

John DiFool
09-21-2017, 10:17 AM
Thanks for the clarification. Do you know of any local or county governments in Florida that have added a fine for 1-4mph over? I bet if anyone is doing it, Waldo is. Those bastards.

Waldo got busted several years ago, and their speed trap is no more. (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-town-infamous-for-speed-traps-disbanding-police-force/)

Bearflag70
09-21-2017, 04:41 PM
1 mph let alone 4-5 mph is not enforcement able. Tire diameter/rpm's per mile vary with MFR's tires in the same size. Take a size 235/55zr17 from Pirelli @ 768 rev's per mile and BF Goodrich 235/55zr17 will have a 766 rev's per mile. Error of the vehicle alone not counting tires will be around +-5-7 mph. Take in account law enforcement eager to meet ticket quotas and you have a SPEEDTRAP. Good honest law enforcement agency's wont ticket less than 10 mph.

Canada had a driver get a ticket recently for 1 mph and the ticket was rescinded.



I recall reading somewhere that tickets within a certain margin of error aren't really enforceable but I imagine lots of people just pay the fines.


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pkbites
09-21-2017, 06:54 PM
I recall reading somewhere that tickets within a certain margin of error aren't really enforceable

I posted this earlier:


*What does the operators manual say as far as accuracy? Most of the radar/laser equipment I use say they are accurate within 0.5mph. But a few say 1 mph. In other words, how could I write you at 1 over if the manual says the unit could be off by 1. A smart attorney would get to see that manual in discovery and blow the case out of the water. Some of the older radar units said they were accurate +/- 4 mph which is where the 5 over standard came from.


Tires and speedometer discrepancies are not a defense to a speed violation. In my 35+ years on the job every time I've seen someone come into court and tell the judge the reason they were speeding was because of their tires or their speedometer the judge has convicted them instead of an equipment violation. This is still a moving violation, it still goes on your driving record, the fine is the same, it still will affect your insurance rates. The only difference is you'll be assessed 2 demerit points instead of 3 or 4.

brujaja
09-21-2017, 07:24 PM
Come on... no cop is going to pull you over for going 2 mph over the limit. Not gonna happen. Unless of course you are driving around in a crappy 20 year-old bondo-held-together car, a 1978 sedan with thumping stereo, or another suspicious vehicle.

You mean like my friend's car who gave me a ride once, in which, unbeknownst to me, he had to put on the parking brake in order to stop?

We were *so* pulled over.