What exactly entails a tune up?

[caffeine_overdose]

I have had my pre-owned car for about a year now and people keep telling me I need to have it serviced or tuned up. What exactly does this entail, and how often should it be done?

[engineer_comp_geek]

Generally it means changing the spark plugs, adjusting the timing, and adjusting the fuel mixture. How often it should be done depends on your model of car. The owner's manual should give a recommendation. Some cars need a tune up fairly regularly, where others are designed to hardly ever need one.

If you don't get it done often enough the car will not run as efficiently, and may run a little rough. Every year is probably a bit too often for most cars these days, I would think.

On the other hand, if you are one of those people that treats their car as a big mystery machine (i.e. you never check the fluids yourself, etc) then a yearly health check is definately a good idea.

[Desmostylus]

Don't forget changing the oil and oil filter.

[Snooooopy]

And random parts of the engine are smacked on the side with a hammer, just for good measure.

[engineer_comp_geek]

Around here, "tune up" doesn't include things like an oil change. "Serviced" on the other hand generally means tune up, oil change, check and top off all fluids, and a general overall inspection (examine brakes and rotors, look for exhaust rust, check to make sure all the lights work, etc).

I would hope that you get your oil changed more frequently than once per year.

[Desmostylus]

"Service" and "tune up" have the same meanings here that you refer to. Maybe I just read the OP carefully.

[Desmostylus]

My last post came across too snarky. Left the smiley off the end :)

[handy]

caffeine_overdose, what car is this? make, model & year....thanks. That makes my job easier.

[Debaser]

Don't forget belts, and preventative maintanance. Having a serpantine belt snap on the highway can wreck lots of stuff under the hood and cost hundreds. Much better to have a mechanic notice that it's worn and replacing it for $50 first.

(I speak from experience).

[caffeine_overdose]

It is a '91 geostorm hatchback handy.

I guess my real question is can I do this myself or do I need to pay a mechanic to do it for me?

[aramis]

Not to be snide, but if you don't know what a tune-up is, you probably don't want to do it yourself.

While most tune-up actions are not really complicated, there are some aspects you want to have a little experience for. Things like looking at a belt and deciding whether or not it needs to be replaced. On a vehicle as old as yours, the tune-up may also require replacement of the distributor cap and spark plug wires. Again, not difficult but if done wrong it can cause trouble.

If you have a friend who's good with cars, see if you can get them to take a look at it and do the parts they can. Watch over their shoulder and ask lots of questions. Better yet, have them talk you through doing the actual work yourself.

[engineer_comp_geek]

I'm going to have to disagree with aramis, but this is kind of an IMHO.

If you buy a chilton's manual (or haynes) it will tell you step by step how to do the basic maintenance on the car yourself. I think that even a relatively mechanical newbie can do a tune-up and preventative maintenance on most cars. Just make sure you have some kind of back up just in case you do screw something up, like a good buddy who knows a lot about cars or if all else fails call the local garage to have it towed and fixed. It's pretty hard to make the car unable to run unless you do something like put all the spark plug wires back in the wrong order or disconnect the power to the fuel pump and not realize it.

My opinion - go for it.

[barbitu8]

Have it done by people who know what they are doing. Besides merely changing the spark plugs, the timing has to be adjusted and there are numerous other small things. I get my car tuned up only once a year. It's a Honda 94, and that's all that is recommended. However, I change the oil and filter every 3,000 miles. IMHO that's the most important item to be done for your car.

[handy]

"the timing has to be adjusted"

They should do that when you get a smog inspection. They do here in California.

Oil change topics are aplenty, but most seem to agree that doing it every 3000 miles isn't necessary.

I just did a Geo Metro, most Geo parts are pretty expensive & for some odd reason, they put in a lot of other parts on the brakes that I thought were not necessary. Thats why you do one side of the car first, then the other, so you can see where everything goes.

[barbitu8]

Originally posted by handy
"They should do that when you get a smog inspection. They do here in California.

Oil change topics are aplenty, but most seem to agree that doing it every 3000 miles isn't necessary.
Well, most people don't live in Cal. and get smog inspections. I agree that 3000 is not absolutely necessary, but it's cheap insurance. Some will argue that it is in heavy duty driving, and others say No. Definitely I'd change it before the 7,000 in the manual unless you do nothing but highway driving.

[Hail Ants]

If you buy a chilton's manual (or haynes) it will tell you step by step how to do the basic maintenance on the car yourself. I think that even a relatively mechanical newbie can do a tune-up and preventative maintenance on most cars.Why oh why would you think that? :)

Sorry, but a Chilton's does not a mechanic make. Not even just for tune ups. Maybe in the old days when everything was easy to get to and black boxes were non-existent.

On a Geo Storm for example, if you strip the sparkplug threads (which is easy to do if the head's aluminum & the plugs are hard to get to), guess what? Your 91 Geo is now junk! It will cost more to have fixed than the whole car's worth.

Contrary to popular belief Chilton's & Haynes are NOT really written for do-it-yourself-ers. They are written for semi-pro & back-yard mechanics who can't afford the thousand or two that Mitchell manuals cost...

[Blown & Injected]

Don't know much about the Geo, but it seems like most cars are now computer controlled. No distributer, timing is set by the computer - not much to do but change plugs and/or plug wires. Make sure all the sensors are set right and functioning properly - need a scan tool for this - not the type that just makes the service engine light flash codes.

Chilton's/Haynes may not make ya a mechanic but for something as simple as a tune up - go for it - IMO. But if ya can not tell what a crossthreaded plug feels like - well then maybe you should not go for it.

[MadScientistMatt]

I concur with Blown & Injected. On something like my '66 Dodge Dart, a tune up does entail adjusting the fuel mixture, timing, breaker points (well, my Dart doesn't have those now!) and a lot of other mechanical systems that need adjustment from time to time.

On something like a Geo Storm, the timing might be adjustable, but the fuel mixture data is sealed inside a chip and isn't something you can change by turning a screwdriver. Even the timing doesn't move much with today's electronic ignition systems. Realistically, the only one of the actual tune-up tasks (as opposed to basic maintenance items like belts) that remains is to replace the spark plugs, distributor cap, and rotor. This assumes your car has a distributor - some of the newer ignition systems don't use these, either.

[tsunamisurfer]

Originally posted by MadScientistMatt
I concur with Blown & Injected. On something like my '66 Dodge Dart, a tune up does entail adjusting the fuel mixture, timing, breaker points (well, my Dart doesn't have those now!) and a lot of other mechanical systems that need adjustment from time to time.

On something like a Geo Storm, the timing might be adjustable, but the fuel mixture data is sealed inside a chip and isn't something you can change by turning a screwdriver.

You're right. Changing the spark plugs on most cars is a no-brainer. If you can change a light bulb, you can change a spark plug. The timing or vavle settings in newer cars rarely need periodic adjustment, and the fuel mixture often cannot be adjusted.

Dealers will try to sell you a $300 60K service package, but you can do most of the work yourself, and what you cannot shouldn't cost you more than $80 elsewhere. Moreover, some of the important work that needs to be done at this interval (timing belt, transmission fluid change) isn't even included in standard packages.

P.S. I don't believe that stuff as to how cross-threading a spark plug will ruin a Geo storm. Any good mechanic can fix the problem in short order.

[Blown & Injected]

>>P.S. I don't believe that stuff as to how cross-threading a spark plug will ruin a Geo storm. Any good mechanic can fix the problem in short order.<<

Yep, Heli-Coil will do it

Lots of GM cars starting in the mid 80's are distributor-less computer controlled, fuel, even idle RPM's is set by the computer

[Rick]

There is a saying going around the car business.
"Ask 12 mechanics what a tune up is and you will get 13 answers."
So this is a real oily term, that means different things to different people. Read the previous posts if you have any doubt.

so I gotta ask why are people telling you that your car needs a tune up?
hard to start?
Runs poorly?
Runs rough?
BAD gas mileage?
Stalls?

New spark plugs, and an air filter might fix those problems, but more likely there is a problem with the fule injection system, that just throwing parts at it won't fix.
If you have been told that you need a tune up because of a check engine light then almost for sure new plugs aren't going to fix it.

Oh yeah, then there was the time that a dad decided to let his 16 year old son tune up his car. On the #4 plug, the kid forgot righty tighty, lefty loosey. he turned the plug clockwise with enough force that it broke off in the head! didn't ruin the car, but it did cost daddy a tow, 1 hour labor and some parts. About three times what we would have charged to install the plugs correctly the first time. so while installing plugs isn't hard, there is a down side.

[Rick]

And if fixing the fule injection doesn't do it, try the fuel injection. :smack:

[Gary T]

"Ask 12 mechanics what a tune up is and you will get 13 answers."

Yep.

The term "tune-up" is neither precisely defined nor consistently used. Essentially, it means what the speaker thinks it means--and I venture that the majority of folks who say it have only a vague notion, at that. Nowadays, it's pretty much an obsolete term, advertisements for tune-ups notwithstanding.

Before cars had electronic ignition and fuel injection, a fairly well-accepted concept of doing a tune-up was to replace the ignition points and condenser; set the dwell and ignition timing; replace the spark plugs; check the plug wires, distributor cap, and distributor rotor; replace the air and fuel filters; and adjust the carburetor mixture and idle. These items tended to wear out and/or get out of adjustment every 10-15,000 miles, so for most cars a tune-up was called for annually.

In those days, if a car was running poorly, getting a tune-up would improve, and often totally rectify, the performance 90+% percent of the time. Ignition timing routinely got out of whack as the points wore. Tune-ups, and sometimes just timing adjustments, were often done as repairs, not just maintenance.

Some shops would include more (oil change, battery service, etc.) in their tune-up, while some would include less (points, condenser, and plugs only). Some would offer a "major tune-up," adding to the package above a carburetor overhaul, valve adjustment, and/or replacement of wires, cap, and rotor. And one would occasionally hear the term used for other services, such as a "transmission tune-up." So even when it was a relevant term, it wasn't a clear and consistent one. To add to the confusion, many shops refer to major service packages as, for example, a "60,000 mile tune-up."

Nowadays, cars don't have points and condensers. Their job is done by electronic ignition systems, with no routine parts replacement or timing adjustment necessary (on many modern cars, timing adjustment is not even possible). Distributorless ignition systems don't have caps and rotors, and coil-on-plug systems don't have plug wires. Mixture and idle are not adjustable on the latest cars, and very seldom need adjusting on the somewhat older ones. What's left of the old tune-up is replacing the spark plugs and air and fuel filters.

Most cars call for plugs at 30,000 miles; if they use platinum plugs it's 60,000 (or for some of the latest models, 100,000). Air filters are generally called for at 30,000; fuel filters at 30 or 60K.

Avertised "tune-ups" (usually for less than $100) typically include replacing the spark plugs and doing related checks and adjustments, if any are possible. With modern fuel injection and electronic control systems, if a car is running poorly, a traditional "tune-up" is unlikely to correct the condition, maybe helping about 30% of the time. It's a maintenance procedure, not a repair.

I would suggest that the most helpful thing for the OP would be to have a thorough inspection of the car done, the type one should get before buying a used car. The idea is to learn what repairs are needed now or anticipated soon, and what maintenance is due (or past due or due soon). Then you'll know what your car needs, and can decide what you might want to tackle yourself and what to have done by a pro.

[handy]

If you got fuel injection, using a fuel injection cleaner is a great idea.

[barbitu8]

If you're replacing your own spark plugs, don't you need a spark plug socket (with a wrench) and a gapper? Or can you just tighten them by hand and trust the gap is correct?

Manufacturers now make cars so they are not easy to maintain yourself, even if there is less to maintain. The old air filter sat on top of the carburetor with the cover secured by a wing nut. No tools necessary. The air filter on my Honda is pressed against the body and secured with four bolts. When I tried to change it myself, I could not get one bolt back in as there was not enough room to maneuver with my screwdriver. It was a Saturday morning and I drove it to the Honda dealer. The service guy had a special tool for those bolts. He replaced the cover at no charge. Also, in the good old days, you could replace the oil filter just by reaching in from the top. No longer. I bought ramps to change the oil and filter and did so for years, but with oil changes on specials at $15 or less, it's not worth the trouble, especially when you consider how careful you had to be in first not driving over the ramps, then not getting the old oil on anything, and then driving to Firestone with your old oil for disposal.

[Gary T]

If you're replacing your own spark plugs, don't you need a spark plug socket (with a wrench) and a gapper? Or can you just tighten them by hand and trust the gap is correct?

Yes, you need a spark plug socket (of the correct size--there are two different sizes commonly used) and a handle (ratchet or breaker bar), usually one or more extensions, and sometimes a u-joint. And yes, you should make sure the plugs have the correct gap for your engine. Plugs generally come with the gaps set, but you cannot rely on it being the correct gap for YOUR engine, so check the gaps and reset them if necessary. Hand tight is never tight enough for spark plugs, they need to be properly tightened with a wrench.

On some engines, particularly certain V-6 arrangements, access to the spark plugs is limited. Changing them is sometimes quite a challenge.

[handy]

"If you're replacing your own spark plugs, don't you need a spark plug socket (with a wrench) and a gapper? Or can you just tighten them by hand and trust the gap is correct?"

I ask the guy at the store for the right gap when I buy plugs & they say they are already set. BTW, they only cost me $8 for 4.......only need to change them every 30,000 miles according to the smog guy on my 87 truck. The plugs have a little metal tip on them, sometimes you need the tip & sometimes you don't. Check the old plugs first.

[Rick]

Originally posted by handy
"If you're replacing your own spark plugs, don't you need a spark plug socket (with a wrench) and a gapper? Or can you just tighten them by hand and trust the gap is correct?"

I ask the guy at the store for the right gap when I buy plugs & they say they are already set. BTW, they only cost me $8 for 4.......only need to change them every 30,000 miles according to the smog guy on my 87 truck. The plugs have a little metal tip on them, sometimes you need the tip & sometimes you don't. Check the old plugs first.

Well first off, you have to get the old ones out. Spark plugs in general have a torque specification of between about 10 and 25 ft-Lbs. If you could undo a spark plug tightened to 25 ft-Lbs by hand then you would be the man.
Also it's only necessary to gap plugs if you are trying to do the job right. If you don't care, then it is just an accessory like the socket and rachet needed to remove the plugs......

[barbitu8]

That's what I thought, but someone (no names, please) said that if I could change a light bulb I can change a spark plug. Well, I've managed to change bulbs all my life without any tools, let alone a rachet wrench with a special socket and a gapper. In fact, my manual on light bulb changing warns not to use any tools. :)

[engineer_comp_geek]

If you are going to do your own maintenance you need a lot of special tools. Fortunately most of them don't cost too much. One thing you'll need is a spark plug socket, as mentioned, and a gapper. You'll probably get both of these for less than 5 bucks at the local auto parts store so I'm failing to see what the big deal is here.

If your car has a distributer then you'll want a timing light to adjust it. Again this isn't going to break your bank. If your car has some fancy electronically controlled ignition then don't mess with the timing.

You'll also need a brake spreader. When the brake pads wear down the cylinder is pushed in, and when you put the new pads in they won't fit unless you push the cylinders back out. They make a little hand tool for this that I can't remember what I paid for it but it was probably only about 5 to 10 bucks.

Some cars have torx screws holding the lights in. It's a royal pain in the backside to buy a screwdriver just to replace a light bulb, but then the screwdriver is only 3 bucks and that's less than the labor cost of having a mechanic put the new light on.

You'll also need something to catch the oil in when you do an oil change. You can get a container with a big top that opens and a side spout that you can use to empty it for about 5 bucks also. You should be responsible when you change the oil and take it back to the auto parts store and dump it in their recycle barrel (f they have one) or to the dump where they have a container for oil, or whatever applies in your area.

In the long run, the money you save more than covers the cost of the extra tools involved.

Changing the spark plugs and the oil filter on some cars can be a bit of a challenge. Sometimes you can get to the oil filter by popping out a panel in the wheel well. On my wife's old car I had to pop off a couple of vacuum lines so I could squeeze my arm down behind the engine from the top. It was a slightly painful experience and sometimes brought forth some fancy four letter words until I got enough grip on the filter, but it was easier than jacking up the car and reaching at it from underneath.

Which reminds me, if you jack a car up, ALWAYS put it on jack stands. Don't rely on just the jack to hold up the car. If the jack fails you get squished. I never get under a car unless it has 3 things holding it up, a jack and 2 jackstands. Jackstands will probably run you about 40 bucks, but they are well worth the investment.

One thing to keep in mind though is that if you don't enjoy this sort of thing, the aggrivation cost of doing it yourself will be more than the cost of taking it to a shop, especially for things like oil changes where you are only saving about 5 bucks. If you enjoy it though, you'll save yourself a fortune in the long run. You'll also be able to tell when your local mechanic is trying to screw you over, which unfortunately happens quite frequently.

[Gary T]

I ask the guy at the store for the right gap when I buy plugs & they say they are already set.

Trust me on this--the parts guy does not know what the gap is on those plugs in the boxes. He does not know whether the gap they are set to is the right gap for YOUR engine. He probably doesn't know that a given plug (by part number) may well be used in several different engines that have different gap specifications--it sure as hell can't be the right gap for all of them.

If you want the plugs you install to have the right gap, measure and adjust the gap yourself.

[Blown & Injected]

Originally posted by Gary T
I ask the guy at the store for the right gap when I buy plugs & they say they are already set.

Trust me on this--the parts guy does not know what the gap is on those plugs in the boxes. He does not know whether the gap they are set to is the right gap for YOUR engine. He probably doesn't know that a given plug (by part number) may well be used in several different engines that have different gap specifications--it sure as hell can't be the right gap for all of them.

If you want the plugs you install to have the right gap, measure and adjust the gap yourself.

That's the truth! At least most of the time. And even if the gap is/was right, if the plug gets dropped, it could close the gap.

[handy]

Okay, next time I ask them to check the gap but for 20 years its been right. Only VW plugs needed gapping.

[Gary T]

Originally posted by handy
Okay, next time I ask them to check the gap but for 20 years its been right. Only VW plugs needed gapping.

I got confused here. If you KNOW it's been right, then you have been checking the gap, correct? If you're checking the gap, why ask them to?

I have no doubt that the preset gap is correct for at least some applications, and that appears to be the case for your engine. My point is that it's not always going to be correct for ALL applications, and could change during handling as Blown & Injected mentioned, so it's not safe for everyone to assume that the plugs they buy will always be correctly gapped for their particular engine.

[handy]

"If you KNOW it's been right, then you have been checking the gap, correct?"

Naw, the cars work fine gapped the way they are from the box.

Maybe in the future I might check them just for fun. I have been getting Bosch plugs from the same guys for like 20 years. But vw plugs need to be regapped when I take them from the box, for some reason.