Worst Discworld novel ever

[js_africanus]

I just finished Night Watch and I must say that it is the worst of the lot. Granted, that's like saying that Kate Moss is the ugliest supermodel--so let's take it with a grain of salt. It was too focused. It completely lacked the entertaining backdrop of goofy yet real characters that fill out the other books. And it was considerably less humorous. Very good: important themes well handled, gripping plot, etc. I especially liked seeing the living Reg Shoe--he reminded me alot of Chumpsky. Ha! Probably could have done more with Vetinari. Vimes is a good leading man, but he needs a better ensemble behind him to really make it a I'd-rather-read-than-sleep book. This may be the first Discworld novel that wasn't.

It could have been more like Small Gods where the philosophers, for example, provided ample amusement threaded into the plot. I like Pratchett because he's so creative and fun. This book could have been set anywhere and been written by, well not anybody, but it lacked that certain something.

Yeah, there's other threads about it. I just couldn't pass up the thread title....

[Miller]

I agree with everything you said, but that all made it one of my favorites. I liked the more sombre tone. Lately, I think Pratchett has been in danger of slipping into self-parody. He needed to reign it in a little, and the time travel idea gave him the perfect excuse, returning to a darker but simpler, less cosmopolitan Ankh-Morpork. I'd like to see him follow some of the characters from that era in future books. Maybe even the young Sam Vimes! Although Pratchett'd probably have a stroke from trying to keep the continuity straight.

My least favorite Discworld book is, well, either of the first two. They weren't as deep or as clever as his later books. Pretty generic "fantasy comedy" novels. He didn't really hit his stride until Pyramids.

[Lamia]

I didn't really care for Eric, but I've never read it in its original, graphic novel format, only as a pure-text novel, so I hesitate to criticize too much.

Night Watch is a different, more serious, less fantasy-based kind of Discworld novel, but I still enjoyed it a lot. I can see how some Discworld fans might not like it, but it is a well-written novel.

[El Elvis Rojo]

Personally, I really didn't like Eric, either. I didn't read the graphic novel, but I doubt the art work would have helped that the plot was rather "Eh," there was no real conflict, and the ending was incredibly anticlimactic. Oooohh, they climbed up a bunch of stairs out of Hell then..." I love all of Rincewind's other stories, but this one just seemed really dull.

[RealityChuck]

I liked Night Watch. It's less funny and is pretty much a serious novel in Discworld clothing, but Pratchett has been moving in that direction and it was an enjoyable adventure.

The worst was probably Moving Pictures. The humor was flat and there were no serious undertones to carry it. He definitely hit a lull around this time, but picked up as he began to write more about the watch.

[SmackFu]

I haven't read Night Watch yet, so no opinion on that. I liked Eric.

I don't really care for the ones that just try to skewer a whole subject, without a good underlying story. And the worst of those is The Last Continent. The island bit is pretty good, but the main plot sucks. Gratiuitous obscure Australian references just don't do it for me. Most of that book is just random stuff happening to Rincewind, and he doesn't even act in character. For example, that whole thing with the digging up water for the animals. That's not the Rincewind I know.

[ftg]

Ditto on "Last Continent", in general the Wizard/Rincewinds are the worst.

When even I can 2nd guess a better plot while reading a book, it's bad. Obviously, in a land without rain, there are no thunderstorms, so no lightning. There are no Igors! So bring in an Igor, put him on a roof holding metal and presto, lightning, rain, big finale. That's the way Discworld really works. How could the guy not think of introducing an Igor?

[photopat]

I thought Night Watch was excellent. I also enjoyed Eric, although it isn't in my top 10. I think the Watch and Witch books are generally my favorites, but I love the Librarian, so any book with him in it gets high marks.

[Urban Ranger]

I like The Last Continent. Rincewind doesn't always run away, mind you. Sometimes he tries to do the right thing.

But I think Prattchet has been slipping. I couldn't finish ones like Maskerade because they become to inane to me. Maybe I could take a look at Night Watch

[Master Wang-Ka]

Huh? Maskerade at least had something resembling a plot.

The Last Continent was FUNNY, sure... but wherethehell was the plot, the story? It pretty much just seemed like another "Rincewind on the loose" story, but this time with no real plot, pacing, or organization...

[Infectious Lass]

I agree that The Last Continent was just about the worst-the Rincewind books do tend to be the weakest, trouble is he is a pretty 1 dimensional and unsympathetic character. Once you have done the running away thing once you've really done it all!

Maskerade was one of my favourites though, IMO it's one of the best ones! Its theme of true self, and how you can unsuccessfully try to hide it is subtle and worthy of 'proper literature' (whatever that is :D )

[smiling bandit]

Personally, I really didn't like Eric, either. I didn't read the graphic novel, but I doubt the art work would have helped that the plot was rather "Eh,

Then you need to take a look. I am never going to get over the sight of the deaf Mad Hamish, confined to a wooden wheelchair/sled, with

horrible nasty brutalizing mutilating meleeweapons sticking out of every spare inch!

That one image alone makes it good.

[LoN]

Originally posted by Infectious Lass
I agree that The Last Continent was just about the worst-the Rincewind books do tend to be the weakest, trouble is he is a pretty 1 dimensional and unsympathetic character. Once you have done the running away thing once you've really done it all!



Ehhh... he's street-smart... knows some languages, knows when to run away, can even be brave (i read Sourcery, and he ends up the hero)... a bit inconsistant, but not one-dimesional. I like him alot as a protagonist, in fact. He grows on you.

[photopat]

Originally posted by smiling bandit
Then you need to take a look. I am never going to get over the sight of the deaf Mad Hamish, confined to a wooden wheelchair/sled, with

horrible nasty brutalizing mutilating meleeweapons sticking out of every spare inch!

That one image alone makes it good.

You're thinking of [The Last Hero]. A truly excellent short Discworld book. The mix up of the food and paint was hilarious, as was Rincewind advising the Librarian on how to move on the moon.

"No, no, I said small steps. Not giant leaps."

"Ook."

[js_africanus]

I read The Last Hero on a flight back from England right when it came out (I think). It was good.

I disagree that Pratchett is (was?) falling into self-parody. For example, in The Truth the printing press never took on a life of its own--although the book kept hinting that was what was going to happen. Then it really would have been a sort-of parody of Moving Pictures at the very least.

I think it's funny that Miller can agree on every point I made and come to a diametrically opposed conclusion. There's no accounting for taste, as economists like to say. Least of all not mine. Like I said before, just because I thought it was the worst of the lot, I didn't think Night Watch was bad. I would recommend it to anyone. Indeed, it may be a good intro to Pratchett because it is, IMO, less idiosynctratic and more accessable.

The Discworld leaves alot of room for new vistas to be explored. Look at Pyramids & Small Gods. Neither of those are really related to any other book. I don't think young versions of extant characters makes for good reading--except Vetinari. I think he could carry a book set in the Snapcase administration. I also think Vimes's revolutionary ancestor (who killed the king) could carry a book. I'd also like to know whatever happened to Esk. Either way, I hope to see more Pratchett-ness. That's what makes me turn the pages. I gave up on fiction a long time ago because I kept thinking, "Who cares? Somebody just made this up." Then I was introduced to Pratchett. He's probably about the only fiction I've read since '95. Some Russian short stories should be included. Zuckerman's op-ed pieces in US News & World Report are certainly pretty outrageous fiction. But that's it. Good plots aren't that hard to find. Good plots infused with clever humor, goofy quasi-Copenhagen physics, bad puns, characatured yet real characters, inter alia are hard to find.

To me Pratchett, like Grant Naylor's Red Dwarf (www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0451452011/qid=1042243366/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/103-5330216-3707849) is what Douglas Adams wanted to be.

p.s. Does anybody know why the British versions of Pratchett's books have such great covers while the American ones universally suck? That really pisses me off.

[Voyager]

Hmm, "Last Continent" was the first Pratchett book I read, and I loved it. Got me started on him.

Haven't read Night Watch yet, but my least Favorite if Fifth Elephant - though I agree with the general consensus on Eric.

As for Last Hero "It's full of elephants!" was enough to make me love that book.

[SmackFu]

But js_africanus, they also cost 7 pounds instead of $7. The UK covers are better, but I wish the US ones were at least consistent, instead of randomly changing between the two styles.

[Gyrate]

Least favorite: Eric, although I've not read the graphic novel version. I found Pyramids annoying, although I couldn't say why now and I should probably go reread it.

Maskerade is much funnier if you know anything at all about opera and how it's produced. The reality is so ridiculous that Pratchett didn't have far to go in that regard.

[banks]

Least favorite Discworld book- without a doubt, Lords and Ladies. Dissapointing, all around. The Lancre character set is probably my least favorite, and in LaL Pratchett really seemed to lack the luster most of his novels have.

I've really got a thing for the Unseen University character set... I noticed a number of posters above cite them as their least favorite. They are by far my favorite. The resonate so deeply with the people that actually inhabit modern academia that Pratchett has barely scratched the surface of their humor potential.

Also, js_africanus, check your local Border's Books for the British-Cover versions of the novels. They carry many of them in both cover styles. But be prepared for some major sticker shock- the Brit art versions are $13.99 each at my local Borders.

[js_africanus]

Originally posted by SmackFu
But js_africanus, they also cost 7 pounds instead of $7. The UK covers are better, but I wish the US ones were at least consistent, instead of randomly changing between the two styles. We should find his American publisher and beat him up. It's not just Pratchett fans who get screwed in the deal. Compare this cover (www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0767906438/qid=1042246955/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/103-5330216-3707849?v=glance&s=books) with this cover (www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1841155683/qid=1042246995/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_2_1/202-2807684-7668666). One of the first things I did when I went to Britain (Britian?) was to find this book. Sometimes we Americans just plain suck.

banks, thanks for the tip. I've seen some, some I already had. :( I'm with you on the UU faculty. I love Ponder wanting to split the thaum. And hex! I can't get enough of that machine.

You didn't like the Stick and Bucket Dance (web.syr.edu/~rsholmes/morris/pratchett.html)?:)

[TheRealJohnPeat]

As a long-standing TP fan his books had slowly been becoming an 'oh look - there's another one' thing until I read The Truth.

It's his best work since Mort (which is his best work ever) and so I'm currently looking at my copy of Night Watch with trepidation as, for the first time in years, I may be disproportionately disappointed :)

In keeping with the thread title - the "Witches Triology" are the worst TP's by far - I barely got through those...

TTFN

JP

[Einmon]

If I really had to, I would vote for Eric, no reason really, it just did not really strike a memorable note with me.

The second one I did not enjoy as much was Soul Music. Though I was happy to read about Susan again, there were a little to many puns of the "elvish" kind in it to be enjoyed wholeheartedly. I almost kept waiting for TP to acknowledge readers who sent in puns...

[pesch]

This is a tough question. Each has their strengths and weaknesses. Mort is probably the weakest as far as plot is concerned, and reading the comic didn't help matters.

What I like best about Pratchett is that he seems to have a pretty good command of a wide variety of subjects. I don't claim any expertise, but my impressions and knowledge of Australia, rock music, opera behind the scenes and university politics seem spot on with his. I've spent a number of years in journalism, and he's nailed the excitement and limitations of the profession in The Truth. Knowing that he's getting the facts right contributes greatly to my enjoyment of these books.

He's also capable of writing a book with very different shadings. People expecting the funny Pratchett to show up may not react well with something more thoughtful like Feat of Clay. Those who like quick slam-bang pacing will probably cry (like I did) through about the first two-thirds of Small Gods. I persisted through blind faith that, by the end, TP would make it worthwhile; and by the gods, he did.

I read a lot, and I'm hard on a lot of authors, but Pratchett has so worked his way into my affections that I willingly read and enjoy everything he's written. He's earned my free pass, alongside Mark Twain and George Macdonald Frasier (may be a few others, but can't think of them at present).

[Lamia]

Originally posted by js_africanus

p.s. Does anybody know why the British versions of Pratchett's books have such great covers while the American ones universally suck? That really pisses me off.

The only explanation I can think of for the American covers I see most often, the ones that are mostly one color but with some kind of iconic representation of the theme or title of the book, is that they make the books look less like fantasy novels. Some people might be ashamed to read a book with a colorful cover showing trolls, dragons, warrior women, etc.

Such people, of course, are idiots. I'm not ashamed to be seen reading a fantasy novel, as long as the cover isn't of the cheesecake variety that Pratchett himself alluded to in The Light Fantastic. And the UK Discworld covers are unquestionably far more attractive than the American ones. At the end of my trip to London I spent my last few pounds buying Discworld novels in the bookstore at Heathrow rather than have them changed back into dollars, so I'm now the proud owner of three Discworld British editions!

[Smeghead]

Originally posted by pesch

I read a lot, and I'm hard on a lot of authors, but Pratchett has so worked his way into my affections that I willingly read and enjoy everything he's written.


Well put. I enjoy them all, frankly. I just finished Night Watch and thought it was great.

[Badtz Maru]

I've only read one of the Discworld books (the second one), and the version I bought had very colorful cover art, with about every major character riding on the luggage in a rather nice painting.

[GuanoLad]

There are three I don't really like as much as the others.

Hogfather took the whole "Oh God of Hangovers" thing way too far, and generally I disliked most of the characters Susan meets. Takes most of the fun out of it, I think.

Lords and Ladies was just not up to par for a Witches book. I've loved every other Witches book, including my favourite Discworld of them all, but this one just didn't ring the bells for me.

Interesting Times just failed to grab me at all. The cultural stabs seemed kind of tryhard, and the idea of seeing TwoFlower again didn't really fill me with interest, so I went in with a halfhearted feel anyway. And there is such a thing as too much of the Luggage.

My favourites include, in this order:

Maskerade is just excellently written from go to whoa, the characters are spot on, the references are brilliant. As someone who has worked in Theatre (it was small and localised, but it operated just like any other theatre, from ego to backstabbing, from success to failure) I found it totally perfect in every detail. Love it.

Men At Arms was the first Murder Mystery, and I loved the change of pace from the 'huge powerful magic gets awoken and takes over Ankh Morpork' angle that was getting a bit samey. Great characterisations, and more Carrot/less Vimes, which I prefer.

The Truth is a lot like Men At Arms, in that it's quite a change of pace, and the new characters were very likeable. Not so sure about the increasing use of Igors and Vampires lately, but they were funny at least.

Small Gods I have warmed to. Initially I didn't like it at my first reading, but it's grown on me since.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Wang-Ka
The Last Continent was FUNNY, sure... but wherethehell was the plot, the story? It pretty much just seemed like another "Rincewind on the loose" story, but this time with no real plot, pacing, or organization...

The plot is the wizards messed up things during The Creation and it was up to Rincewind to fix it. Of course, it would be better if he didn't just do it accidentally.

[Zsofia]

I totally agree with everybody who hates The Last Continent, but I'm shocked that there's no vote for the couple books around it - there was a period there where his books relied far too heavily on the jokes, with cobwebs of plot there to take him from joke to joke. Likewise, the problem with the first few books is that there's too much overdetermined story with not enough character and humor work. He's gotten better, and I very much liked Night Watch, but didn't much care for The Truth. Jingo rather blew, except for the inclusion of old favorite characters and the lucky exclusion of Rincewind, who can choke on his own blood for all I care. Also, you can't really write a book about Carrot. Carrot is not funny. Other people around Carrot are funny, but Carrot himself is a bit of a snooze.

And don't nobody be talking smack about Maskerade. I read it while I was an intern at an opera house and thought it absolutely hilariously funny.

[photopat]

Okay, see, Lords and Ladies[b] is one of my favorites. [b]The Truth has gotten better with readings, but at first it was one of my least. On the whole, I haven't found any of the books to be bad, rather, some are just not as strong as others. Maskerade was good, and so was Jingo, but LaL and Guards! Guards! are both stronger. I also thoroughly enjoyed The Fifth Elephant.

Like the Simpsons, the Discworld is going to cause a lot of disagreement, but I'm always glad to see so many people here love it.

[js_africanus]

Originally posted by photopat
Like the Simpsons, the Discworld is going to cause a lot of disagreement, but I'm always glad to see so many people here love it. I couldn't agree more.

[Zumpel]

I've felt similar to TheRealJohnPeat.... the books started to loose their interest for me (but still bought them of course, as one never looses hope).

With the Night Watch I feel Pratchett's back again, writing in a settings he's comfortable with and on a topic he feels is important. That really shows. There mighnt laugh-out-loud stuff, but you still get a genuine grin on your face, which isn't hard to get with the matter fealt with in the book. Not a comedy, but a very satisfying read because of that.

[Charlie Tan]

I like them all.

The wizzards (sic!) are great. The banter and ongoing jokes are beautifully paced and lined out. Under the surface, Pterry mostly gets in quite a few deeper things. Interesting times take a very good look at politics and heroism, as does Jingo in the Watch series. Which also has a lot of fun things to say about cultural clashes. Rincewind was not so much fun in Last Continent, but the faculty was totally hilarious.
The witches are fun too, and even though I didn't get it at first, Granny W and Nanny Ogg are great characters. The Death/susan series is also fun. So how to pick the least good?

From the Witches - Lords and Ladies. Granny and Nanny are fun, but the plot really is so-so.
The Watch - no particular book, but I'm getting tired of the theme where evil men plot to overtrow Vetinari and Vimes saves the day. I read the Watch series more for character and fun, than for plot. And Angua.... mmmmm.
The Wizards - Sourcery leaves me cold.

But overall, the worst in the series - plot, character, jokes - is Thief of Time. Had not Susan been in the book, it would've been a huge disappointment.


Woff, bloody woof.

[js_africanus]

Originally posted by The Gaspode
And Angua.... mmmmm.Had to have the breastplate hammerd to fit, and the helmet barely contained the thick curly blonde hair. Yep. :homer:Angua...mmmm...drool:homer:

[Scruff]

Well, I didn't care for The Last Continent nor Jingo. Both of those felt almost as though they were written by someone else -- the characters didn't quite ring true.

In Jingo, for instance, I'm not sure that I see The Patrician doing bazaar magic in a Tommy Cooper voice, and the whole story just didn't quite work.

In The Last Continent, which I just finished last night, I didn't get the Rincewind character at all. Now he's not my favorite, but even the dialog with the wizards felt un-natural.