Power Off/Power On

[CheapBastid]

Up in the Server Room I noticed a tech that powered off a misbehaving server and then powering it right back on. He may have been punishing that box out of frustration, but I'm from the school that waits a good amount of time (6-30 seconds depending on the cost of the machine) before powering on a computer that I just powered off. The reasoning was to allow the drives to spin to a stop (or something like that).

Anyone have a definitive answer on how long one should wait when power cycling a Computer?

[SingleDad]

It really doesn't matter much any more. Back in the bad old days of cheap power supplies and motherboard construction, you wanted to wait at least a couple of seconds for things to settle down.

The technology is more forgiving now. It's no longer necessary to wait before re-powering a computer.

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Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

[PVonAtark]

Another thing worth mentioning. I personally leave my computers on almost continuously. The reason I do this is because of the miniscule risk of a power surge causing damage. I only turn machines off if I know that I will not use it for a week or more.

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"All men spoke of his prowess...except for a couple of people in his home village who though he was a liar, and quite a lot of other people who had never really heard of him." -Terry Prachett - The Light Fantastic

[bantmof]

I am typing this on a computer that I have owned since about 1989, and which has not been off for more than about 10 total days in that entire span (most of that while waiting for a replacement power supply a few years back, as well as the odd hard drive or memory upgrade).

A few times during that span it has crashed hard enough that I can't reboot it from the keyboard, and I have taken to toggling the power switch off and on as quickly as possible - I guess taking perhaps 1 or 2 tenths of a second. By doing it that way I can preserve whatever files I had on the ramdisk when the machine comes back up. So far my rapid power cycling has not caused any detectable harm, for what it's worth. Not that I'd recommend the practice.

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peas on earth

[handy]

An interesting question that I recently asked a HD manf. He said that in theory leaving it on or turning it off should be equivalent in how long things last. But that in practice, it was better to turn things off at night.

[CheapBastid]

Handy -

Regarding the General Power State, I'm of the school who keeps the things running all the time as well (rather than shutting down each night). The question is, when the machine is malfunctioning and needs to be powered down, how long before powering it back on?

[Odieman]

If you want a to see a good fight go to a techie site and ask if you should leave your computer on or off. It is equivalent to (and about as easy to answer definitively )as the origin of the whole nine yards
Keith

[Odieman]

Delete one "a" and insert one "." at your discretion please.
Keith

[ATTGuy]

I struggle with this repeatedly. My family was a "if you leave the room, turn of EVERYTHING" family, so I have a hard time leaving my computer on. But I was also told to leave a computer running to extend its lifespan.

Is the cost of the electricity I use by leaving my computer on more or less than the cost of repairs if something breaks when I'm turnign it on and off? I don't mind telling you I'm torn up inside about the whole business.

[ATTGuy]

make that, "if you leave the room, turn OFF EVERYTHING". How's my proofreading?

[handy]

A PC with power saving on [Okay, you put it in 'Stand By' instead of turning it off] uses about 50 watts of electricity. 15 watts for the PC, 35 for the monitor. You can check the power requirements & multiply by your electric statement to find out how much it costs to leave it ON.

In theory the computer should work as long as if you turned it on & off quickly as if you waited, but in practice, a computer would last longer if you waited a few seconds for things to spin down.



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"'How do you know I'm mad' said Alice.
'You must be, ' said the Cat, 'or you wouldn't have come here.'"

[manhattan]

::Test Post:: Please ignore this post. If there are multiposts above, please ignore them too.

[Ringo]

To address the OP, as SingleDad observed, computer equipment is much more forgiving and efficient these days, so the wait isn't necessary. That being said, I had it drilled into me years ago to wait, so I usually do, anyway.

Now to the tangent - I leave'em running usually, with backups that take all night or big plotting jobs that similarly run into the night often going, and with an auto defragger set to do its thing @ 2:00 AM every day, and with oft used files left open continuously. I also have them on UPSs. If I know nobody will be around for several days, I'll shut'em down.

Now I am curious about bantmof's post. You can toggle the power switch and get a reboot while preserving the contents of a ramdrive? What OS are you using?

Secondary tangent underway...

[bantmof]

You can toggle the power switch and get a reboot while preserving the contents of a ramdrive?
Yep, but only if I do it _very_ quickly. I am just guessing there's a big enough capacitor in there somewhere to keep the contents of memory alive for a few tenths of a second. The ramdisk I'm using allocates a small key in an absolute location pointing to the root of the ramdisk's filesystem in memory. If the system is rebooted, it then looks for that, does some validation checks, and uses its old filesystem. It's handy, although these days the sheer performance of hard disks and huge caches has pretty much obsoleted anything it may have once been good for. But some part of my brain is stuck in the 80's and still likes to use it.
What OS are you using?
That particular system (not even my oldest one ;-) ) is running AmigaOS3.1. (Told you it's ancient!) I don't even bother with ramdisks on my PC.

On the topic of leaving things on vs. nightly shutdowns, I don't really know which is better, but I've had pretty good luck over the years with running things continuously. But who knows. Maybe I've just gotten lucky.

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peas on earth

[techchick68]

Personally, I avoid the quick power off/on if I don't have a reset button. There are occasions where I need to get a computer up and running as soon as possible so I have to, but avoid it as much as possible.

There are moving parts in there, much like a car, the more you power off and on, the more wear and tear you put on the parts.

My thinking is, if you power off a system and reboot without giving it a chance to stop spinning (the hard drive) you are asking it to reverse too soon, again, like a car -- specifically an automatic transmission.

As for leaving it on, I leave my computers on as much as possible. Computer parts are stronger and more tolerant than they once were but still contain parts that shouldn't have too many heat and cold cycles.

Well, thats my opinion.

[stolichnaya]

Odieman, I swear when I read that I heard an old friend's Italian grandmother:
"If you want-a to see a good fight-a..."



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stoli

"There's always a little dirt, or infinity, or something." -Feynman

[inertia]

smilla: "it wastes more energy powering them up." I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but that's just dumb.

[handy]

I have power saving on everything, even then it uses about $7 more electricity per month if left on all the time.

On another computer, a laptop, it has hibernation. So, turn if off for a week, then push a button & it comes on instantly fully loaded. Yep.

[VaHermit]

I have had a computer of one sort or another in my home for about 20 years. Some of the first ones..Timex Sinclare 1000, Radio Shack color computers etc. told you to allow at least 15 seconds between power-down/reboot to let the capacitors fully discharge before socking them again. I still follow this advice as a matter of habit, counting 1001,1002 and so on even though I think technology solved this problem years ago.

As far as leaving them on, I do. The cost is pennys per month. Wear and tear on the equipment is essentially nill, most electronic componants that are going to fail will do so within the first hundred hours or so- a period known as burn-in, anything living after that should last forever, or so I am told, thats why savvy buyers will leave any new equipment running day and night till the warranty runs out...if it survives this, it will probable last for years.

As far as computers though, I do shut down and reboot about once a week as a matter of course, after a few "fatal errors" the cummulative effect seems to slow down the system and a cold boot seems to restore the speed.

[VaHermit]

Oh yea, as a side note to the "allowing the disk to quit spinning" group, wrong.. as an industrial maintenance tech. with an electrical cert. I can tell you that it requires more draw (surge) to start a motor from dead-stop than it does to restore speed to one that is already moving. In the latter case, most of the work has already been done by the momentum of the spinning armature.

[CheapBastid]

I'm sorely disappointed. Many opinions, the "leave it on all the time" hijack, but no hard evidence! Someone restore my faith in the Teeming Millions.

I would think that the lightning fast power off/power on cycle (on that old Amiga) would be similar to a brownout and I would avoid it. There are UPS systems and Surge Suppressors to avoid what you're intentionally subjecting your machine to.

[Shadenwawa]

I always learned that it is both more wear and tear on the parts AND more power to start them from scratch every day. So I leave mine on too.

Also, when I reboot its usually 'cause of a problem, so I want to make sure that the RAM clears completely. I've been told that it takes a couple of seconds for the RAM to clear completely (correct me if im wrong) so I usually wait about 10 seconds to be safe.

No hard evidence tho. Sorry.

[smilla]

I just argued something like this with a firend. I too come from a household where my parents have programmed me to cut off everything if I'm not using it. I even leave the lights off if I'm not studying, and my room doesn't get a lot of sunlight. The friend with whom I was arguing says that newer computers don't need to be turned off, because it wastes more energy powering them up. On one hand, this makes sense, on the other hand, isn't it a drain to leave any appliance running 24-7?

On a similar note, how young does a computer have to be to be left on constantly? I got my dinosaur in 1995, and it only has 75 mhz. Not exactly cutting-edge technology.

[VaHermit]

Shadenwawa,

The speed of your computer is measured in Megahertz. Hertz being "cycles per second", mega meaning millions. Therefore, if you have a 350Mhz processor, it means that your clock/generator sends 350,000,000 electrical pulses per second through the bus-lines of your computer, each of which changes the state of each bit of memory to on/off, high/low, 0/1 or however you wish to percieve it. I can't picture a number like this in my mind (the nearest is Scrooge McDucks uncountabillions of dollars for those of you who are old enough to have read Donald Duck comix)

Suffice to say, memory in the computer does not need time to clear, at least not time as we can concieve it, neither you nor I can hit a key or turn the thing off/on fast enough to make any difference so far as RAM is concerned.

[handy]

Most of the static stuff in the computer shouldn't be effected too much in a quick on/off situation.

Its the hard drive that you need to be concerned about. I already said I talked to Western Digital about it above.

Electrical items STILL have some electricity in them when you turn them off & turning them back on right away could, but usually doesn't, makes a minor flood.

The best way to get ANY electrical item back when its working weird is to unplug it for one minute & plug it back in. This resets any electronics inside. vcrs, tvs, answering machines, etc. This DOES work.

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"'How do you know I'm mad' said Alice.
'You must be, ' said the Cat, 'or you wouldn't have come here.'"