Walt Disney's "SONG OF THE SOUTH"-Forbidden to be Shown?

[ralph124c]

I recall seeing this old Disney film,many years ago. Somebody told me that due to the film's portrayal of black people, Disney had decided to avoid releasing the film to video. Is this true?
I remember that one of the main characters (Uncle Remus) had a very deep, resonant voice-who was the actor who portrayed the character?

[dead0man]

James Baskett (http://us.imdb.com/Name?Baskett,%20James).
And yes, Disney won't re-release it on VHS or DVD in the US because of the racial stereotypes. I saw it as a kid in my home on film and all I remember was the "blue bird on my shoulder" part at the end. It looks like you can still get it in Germany (http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/external-search/302-4392509-9148053?tag=imdb-de&mode=video&keyword=B00004RM2X|B00004RO2K).

[the O-man]

Here's the FAQ of a "Song of the South" website that you may find helpful:
http://www.songofthesouth.net/faq/index.html

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

BTW, some more info on James Baskett (who also supplied the voice of Br'er Fox).

He had earlier played lawyer Gabby Gibson on the "Amos 'n' Andy" radio program. (More on the "Amos 'n' Andy" connections, later.) He also was only 42 or so during the filming of "Song of the South," and was actually in poor health, suffering from a bad ticker, and eventually died of heart disease when he was 46 or so. Already by 42, his hair was white--not just dyed for the movie--as I have seen photographs of him before "Song of the South."

Other "Amos 'n' Andy" connections:

Horace "Lightnin'" Stewart supplied the voice of Br'er Bear.
Johnny "Algonquin J. Calhoun" supplied the voice of Br'er Rabbit.
Roy Glenn, who did many guest appearances on radio and TV, supplied the voice of Br'er Frog.

(Also BTW, I have a copy.):D

[crinklebat]

On the "Friend Like Me" Sing-a-Long Songs video released with Aladdin, there were clips from Song of the South that went along with the song (I think it was "How do you Do"). Seeing them helped me to understand why they weren't selling videos of the movie, but it also made me want to see it. How'd you get your hands on a copy, Mjollnir?

I think it's one of those things, like the WWII propaganda videos starring Donald Duck, that the vast majority of the youth of America just won't ever get to enjoy. Alas.

[vivalostwages]

If you call up a friend of mine who does legal clearance for Disney, she'll tell you the company's policy on this film: They will not release it to anybody who requests it, no matter what the reason is, nor will the company ever likely release it to the public again, because (officially) they are uncomfortable with the content; and (off the record) they are afraid of a backlash.

[BobT]

Wow! And I saw this in a theater when I was just a wee lad. I was a little too young to "appreciate" the racism.

[Walloon]

Song of the South, set in the 1870s a decade after the Civil War, may be the most socially realistic movie Disney ever made. All the white people in the story think the world revolves around them and their problems. The black people live in poverty, and are ignored or condescended to by the white adults. The black characters make do with what little they have, and they have a rich oral folklore culture.

Bring back Song of the South!

[Fern Forest]

Well, people <choose one> (die/get fired/retire/"explore other options") and then other people wonder what the first group of people were thinking in the first place. I imagine a few CEOs down the line and the story will change. Although Eisner seems pretty well entrenched but thankfully the stock is performing poorly. Hopefully when he goes the new CEO will be much more open to their film vault and not let so many of their big films languish outside of the DVD format. I shake my fist in their direction.

I was lucky enough to be one of those to catch this in the theaters in 1986 when I was 12. I enjoyed it a lot.

[Lute Skywatcher]

obligatory SNOPES link (http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/sots.htm)

[Captain Lance Murdoch]

What about Peter Pan? I don't see how anyone can sit through that without cringing at the film's depiction of Native Americans.

[Freudian Slit]

Yeah, that was pretty bad. But they weren't Native Americans. If anything, they'd be Native Never Landers. Which I guess makes pirates and lost boys immigrant Never Landers.

People have also complained about the cats in "Lady and the Tramp" and the birds in "Dumbo" which I don't really find that offensive....

[Keith Berry]

Plenty of bootlegs available, on VHS, DVD, and VCD. Disney should just suck it up and release it, along with a disclaimer.....it's no more offensive than the racial stereotypes in Gone With The Wind.

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

It was released on LD in Japan and on VHS in Britain. I have a legal copy of the British version, which I had converted to NTSC. That's how I got my copy.

[bup]

This may be off the OP, but I just have to chime in - the movie's not good. The cartoon parts within the movie are cool, and I hope they are released by themselves in some format, but the overall movie kind of bites.

Uncle Remus is the only likeable human character in the thing. If the bull hadn't injured the bratty kid, I was going to.

[80sHairMetalMaven]

I agree that SOTS should be brought back...stupid Disney for keeping it (and thousands of other great films)hidden in their danged 'Vault'.:(

IDBB
resident Disney freak

[Keith Berry]

Originally posted by I_Dig_Bad_Boys
I agree that SOTS should be brought back...stupid Disney for keeping it (and thousands of other great films)hidden in their danged 'Vault'.:(

IDBB
resident Disney freak

Can you give some examples of other films they are holding? I'm not up to speed with Disney's history.

[Walloon]

The only remaining feature that Disney has never released on home video is the wartime documentary Victory Through Air Power (1943), an Academy Award nominee for its score.

[Redboss]

Here in Australia, song of the South pops up on cable TV the Disney Channel quite often. It was on last week I think and sometime the month before.

I started to watch it but it is SO TEDIOUS!

The live action is painfully slow and obvious, and hollywood hokum at its most lifeless worst.

The animation segments are ugly, both to look at and to listen to. There's so much screeching and regional accents, that the effort required to unscramble what's being said is exasperating, given that not much is worth listening to. I lasted about a third of the way in.

Interesting that Disney feel okay about showing it here. It doesn't deal in racial hatred, but is offensive in its shallow, patronising stereotypes, and I suspect that I were an African American I would be really irritated by calls for its re-release. I do not think it's any kind of loss to the North American public.

But I will now be scanning the TV listings for "Coal Black and De Sebben Dwarves"

Redboss

[Redboss]

...apologies for my poor proofreading. Eeeps.

R

[Fenris]

Um...Redboss? I don't know if I'm misreading you, but you do know that the cartoons* are exceptionally faithful reproductions of several stories of one of the best black writers of the 19th century, right? I mean, the dialect in the cartoons is just like it is in the Joel Chandler Harris (Uncle Remus) stories, as is the plots, etc. And I've seen analysis that say that Bre'r Rabbit vs Br'er Fox and Bear is supposed to be a slaves vs whites allegory (I don't see it myself).

I mean, feel free to dislike it all you want, but I don't see how reproducing black literature can be "shallow, patronising" and stereotypical.

On the other hand, if you're talking about the live action stuff between the cartoons, well... < coughs > umm.....

Fenris

[CalMeacham]

The only remaining feature that Disney has never released on home video is the wartime documentary Victory Through Air Power (1943), an Academy Award nominee for its score.



Try finding a copy of Der Fuehrer's Face or The Story of Menstruation.

[80sHairMetalMaven]

Well,yes, I was talking about that and the fact that Disney likes to put a movie out in theatres, keep it there for a few months and then when it finally makes it to video/dvd, they only keep it on shelves for a very SHORT period of time (ex."Beauty and the Beast,sp. ed..total time in stores..2 mos)before 'retiring' it to the Vault for an absurd length of time. There are a few Disney movies I'd like to own on DVD but I can't get them because they are in the Vault right now.:( That or they haven't released the movies I'd like to get on DVD yet for whatever reason(ex. Lady and the Tramp,Cinderella,The Black Cauldron) and the videos aren't available either due to being in the Vault.

IDBB

[Daniel]

IDBB: I have definitely seen a DVD copy of The Black Cauldron in stores. It was insanely expensive (just like all other Disney DVDs), so I left it there, but it is certainly possible to find on DVD.

Sooner or later, I will go back there with enough money in my pocket to once again join my old friends Taran and Gurgi . . .

[Tasha Yar]

I also found it rather dull. The cute animal cartoon segments are funny but the film itself is flat. The little rich white boy really was very annoying too. It's kind of a trivial complaint but the kid just got on my nerves so much.

It's no Mary Poppins (a film I do enjoy, very much), that's for sure. Of course, that's just my opinion.

[80sHairMetalMaven]

Daniel--What store was THIS at?:confused:

IDBB

[Arden Ranger]

The Black Cauldron is available on DVD from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004R99W/qid%3D1043251597/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/104-1033184-9808728)

[Walloon]

Originally posted by CalMeacham
Try finding a copy of Der Fuehrer's Face or The Story of Menstruation.

Note that I said Disney features.

[Walloon]

P.S. The Story of Menstruation was a short film Disney did for hire for International Cellucotton Co. in 1946. Disney doesn't own the film. Disney did a lot of contract work like that over the years, especially in the health sciences field: Hemo the Magnificent (directed by Frank Capra, no less!), Understanding Stresses and Strains, numerous others.

[John Carter of Mars]

‘Tis a fool indeed that would enter into dispute with Loki’s great wolf, Fenris, but here goes:

Joel Chandler Harris, author of the Uncle Remus stories that Song of the South is derived from, was a white man who lived in the Atlanta, Georgia area. The fables were written in the 1870’s.

Harris did a great deal of fieldwork to get the stories and dialects of area black persons accurate.
The stories themselves are African-Americanized versions of tales that originated in Africa. Reputable researchers have identified West African precursors for over two thirds of the two hundred “Uncle Remus” tales.

The current (Jan/Feb 2003) issue of Oxford American magazine discusses Joel Chandler Harris, his literary works, and the Song of the South movie at length. Their article also includes discussion about the racial implications of the stories, both past and present, pro and con.
I would recommend that anyone who has a serious interest in this subject check out the magazine story.

www.oxfordamericanmag.com

Back-Back, dammed wolf!

[Guinastasia]

As a kid, my mom subscribed to this Disney Storybook thingy for me, and I have TONS of books from Disney-based on the movies and short cartoons.

I had quite a few Bre'er Rabbit books, including one where he jumps in a mess of tar and twigs and stuff and chases after the Fox and the Bear and scares the bejeezus out of them.

They were always my favorite as a kid-was that in the movies?

[tmwster]

I saw the movie when I was little, and loved it. I think I must have had the record album and books, too, because I remember the songs and B'rer Rabbit stories. But when I saw it again as a college student, in the 1980's, I remember feeling a little shocked and offended at the blatant stereotyping. I also recall leaving the theater feeling that the quality of the movie was really lousy.

But what great songs... zippity doo dah...

[Fenris]

Originally posted by John Carter of Mars
‘Joel Chandler Harris, author of the Uncle Remus stories that Song of the South is derived from, was a white man who lived in the Atlanta, Georgia area. The fables were written in the 1870’s.
:eek:
He was white?

Jeez. I sure got that one wrong! :eek:

Thanks for the info! :)

[Gyrate]

Originally posted by Walloon
Disney did a lot of contract work like that over the years, especially in the health sciences field: Hemo the Magnificent (directed by Frank Capra, no less!), Understanding Stresses and Strains, numerous others. The Great Bird of Memory craps on my head again -- I remember Hemo! Man, I used to love those films. Toot, Whistle, Plunk and Boom (http://www.teemings.com/shorts/disney/years/1953/tootwhistleplunkandboom.html) was a particular favorite.

[80sHairMetalMaven]

jr8--if you love Toot Whistle Plunk and Boom--go buy yourself a copy (if'n ya can find it!)of Fantasia 2000. It's in the "Bonus Features" section of that DVD.:)

IDBB

[Gyrate]

Woohoo!

[Jonathan Chance]

And if anyone can tell me when 'Aladdin' will be out on DVD I'll wash your car.

[whiterabbit]

Lady and the Tramp is out on DVD -- my brother found it for my mom's last birthday. However, he had to get it online somewhere and paid $40 for it. I think it's been withdrawn so it's REALLY hard to find.

[Moirai]

I was shocked when I saw Dumbo as an adult, just recently. My mom got it for my 3 year old son to watch, and we were all horrified at the racial stereotyping of the "blackbird", etc. I imagine the reaction would be the same if I saw Song of the South now.

Of course, what was perhaps even more horrifying was that none of us (including my parents) remembered being horrified back in the day...

:(

[Arden Ranger]

Originally posted by whiterabbit
Lady and the Tramp is out on DVD -- my brother found it for my mom's last birthday. However, he had to get it online somewhere and paid $40 for it. I think it's been withdrawn so it's REALLY hard to find.

Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/offering/list/-/B00001QEE6/all/ref=sr_pb_a/104-1033184-9808728) has Lady and the Tramp for 29.77. One copy listed as imported. Everything else is 49.00+

[CheapBastid]

Releases (http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=221908)Aladdin has never been available on DVD. It has been tagged as one of the ten Platinum Edition titles, with an initial expected release date of 2003. However, it appears that The Lion King and Aladdin have switched order, so the release is currently expected in 2004.

[Daniel]

Originally posted by I_Dig_Bad_Boys
Daniel--What store was THIS at?:confused:

IDBB

CDWorld on Rte 46, westbound direction, next to the Toys 'R' Us in Totowa, NJ. They used to have great prices but I think they went up (still, they have some good sales every now and then, and they stock some DVDs that can be otherwise hard to find).

But hands off The Black Cauldron! It's mine! :mad:

[raz]

Why the heck is the Lady and the Tramp DVD so expensive? Disney just pisses me off like that. Prices for a stupid movie go sky-high because they only make a "limited number" of copies. They could just sell more and make more money off of it.

And I've seen "Song of the South" on Ebay a few times, and I've never seen it go below 60 bucks.

[rowrrbazzle]

Originally posted by Walloon
Disney did a lot of contract work like that over the years, especially in the health sciences field: Hemo the Magnificent (directed by Frank Capra, no less!)As far as I can tell, Disney had nothing to do with Hemo. Shamus Culhane's company did the animation. Disney did the last Bell Science film, The Restless Sea.

The Bell Science Series was great, though. I have all the videos. Hemo is the best, and Our Mr. Sun is second. The science is dated, but the Capra entries are still excellent in capturing the wonder of science, especially using Beethoven's 9th at the closing.

[80sHairMetalMaven]

roadkiller--join the club.I am pissed as hell at Disney for such tactics.Believe me if I could strangle Eisner with my bare hands and force him to change the policy I would.;)

IDBB
*note I am not advocating the strangulation,with bare hands or otherwise,of Micheal Eisner.Strangling him is a dream of many,many Disney fans.**

[ralph124c]

Regarding the animated scenes in SOTS: they are very crude by today's standards,but I liked the psychidelic-colored landscapes that James Baskett strolled through (with "Mr. Bluebird on my shoulder"). How was this done? Did they simply shoot the actor against a colored backdrop?
Damn, wish I could get holdof a copy!

[80sHairMetalMaven]

I think that's how it was done, but since IANAFE,I don't know. More than likely they used 'green screen' and shot the actors against a green backdrop and added the colored background in later.

IDBB

[Fern Forest]

How expensive are they? I mean "The Black Cauldron" can be found on Amazon for only $20.

The reason "Lady & the Tramp", "The Little Mermaid", "101 Dalmations" and "The Jungle Book" are all so expensive on DVD is that they were only released once, in 1997, as part of a set. These were all limited edition releases. You can only find them used and you'll have to hunt around to find a decent deal. I know, I've got every DFLAF on DVD that's been released. Although I ate a lot of crow to buy "Saludos Amigos" due to a slight edit, "Make Mine Music" due to a major edit, "The Sword and the Stone" due to being full screen *raspberry*, "The Aristocats" ditto and "The Fox and the Hound" ditto.

This page has the rest of the Platinum series (http://members.lycos.co.uk/pixararchive/Disney/ComingUp/FutureReleases.php). And that still leaves out "The Rescueres" and "Sleeping Beauty" both of which have been available in Europe and elsewhere for quite some time. Well damn it! Europe just got a 2nd edition of "Sleeping Beauty" with a "Deluxe Collector's Edition." There may even be a 3rd edition but I'd be willing to bet that there 3 disc box set just includes the first edition. And we don't even have a release date. *raspberry*

[Walloon]

Originally posted by EJsGirl
we were all horrified at the racial stereotyping of the "blackbird", etc.

I've seen Dumbo and am at a loss to understand what the PC is about. What's the racial stereotyping? Those blackbirds were great!

[Loopus]

Originally posted by Fenris
:eek:
He was white?

Jeez. I sure got that one wrong! :eek:

Thanks for the info! :)

In Life on the Mississippi, Mark Twain describes him as "undersized, red-haired, and somewhat freckled." His young fans, who gathered at Twain's friend Cable's house to meet him, were shocked and disappointed to discover that "Uncle Remus" was white.

So it's at least a long-lived misconception. :)

[Dangerosa]

It is my understanding that Disney will allow Song of the South to be viewed for academic purposes - although back when I took a college Art History class on Disney, the prof - Karal Ann Marling - tried to get a copy to show us and they wouldn't release it for class.

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

If this movie is ever released in the *States, one scene that probably won't make it is the one with Uncle Remus and Br'er Frog. . . smoking. [Insert Creature of the Black Lagoon music here]

*Hey, if the Bucs can win the Super Bowl--anything's possible.

[TWDuke]

Pardon me for bringing up something everyone may already know, but the Splash Mountain ride at Disneyland is based on the Uncle Remus stories as told portrayed in "Song of the South."

[ioioio]

The video of "Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah" is available on a Disney Sing-a-long video (link follows). The editorial review is interesting in light of this thread.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/6300276554/qid=1043694337/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-1158318-7711241?v=glance&s=video

[vivalostwages]

Originally posted by Dangerosa
It is my understanding that Disney will allow Song of the South to be viewed for academic purposes - although back when I took a college Art History class on Disney, the prof - Karal Ann Marling - tried to get a copy to show us and they wouldn't release it for class.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can double check with my Disney corporate legal dept. friend who does these clearances, but I'm sure she said that they won't release SOTS even for educational purposes. Anything else, you could probably get.

[The Punkyova]

Originally posted by rowrrbazzle
As far as I can tell, Disney had nothing to do with Hemo. Shamus Culhane's company did the animation.

[major hijack] Shamus Culhane? As in Chico Marx's son-in-law, Shamus Culhane? Which company was this? I didn't know that he had an animation company. Any and all information would be really appreciated by this Marx Brothers fan.[/major hijack]

[rowrrbazzle]

Originally posted by The Punkyova
[major hijack] Shamus Culhane? As in Chico Marx's son-in-law, Shamus Culhane? Which company was this? I didn't know that he had an animation company. Any and all information would be really appreciated by this Marx Brothers fan.[/major hijack] Yes, he was married briefly to Chico's daughter Maxine. (I didn't know that before now.) His short-lived company (http://us.imdb.com/List?production-companies=Shamus%20Culhane%20Productions&&tv=on&&heading=18;produced+by;Shamus%20Culhane%20Productions) did only 3 of the Bell Science Series and "Showdown at Ulcer Gulch", which is supposed to be awful.

The Disney connection is that Culhane was previously one of Disney's major animators.

[Isaac Cashman]

"Der Fuehrer's Face" won an Oscar. It used to be on T.V. in the 50's as part of the "Disnyland/Wonderful World of Color" Salute to Donald Duck.

Disney should be ashamed of keeping it `` In The Vault ''!

Can one get an un-censored version of "The Three Little Pigs". I find the oicture of "FATHER" (a football and a ham) more offensive than Big Bad Wolf pretending to a Jewish Peddlar.

Note: I am Jewish.

An intereting question: What percentage of the public was offended by the following when :The Three Little Pigs" firs came out? What percentage of the public finds it offensive today?

The Picture of the piglets _lustily_ rooting at the dugs of "MOTHER".

[GuanoLad]

I recently bought "The Black Cauldron" from Amazon.

What an awful movie. No wonder it was a failure. Bad acting, huge plot holes, boring animation, stupid annoying creature sidekicks.

Trust me, it ain't anything worth pining over.

[CheapBastid]

Originally posted by Isaac Cashman
[BCan one get an un-censored version of "The Three Little Pigs". I find the oicture of "FATHER" (a football and a ham) more offensive than Big Bad Wolf pretending to a Jewish Peddlar.[/B]You can sort of get it now as it is included in the limited release DVD 'Silly Simphonies Disney Treasures Tin' . I watched it the other day and don't recall the Wolf being a Jewish Peddler, but instead more of a Fuller Brush Salesman.

[Walloon]

The voice of the Big Bad Wolf was redubbed. In the original, he had a Yiddish accent. In the redubbed version, he was a Fuller Brush salesman, without the Yiddish accent.

[MovieMogul]

It looks like it may be coming out on DVD (http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/articles/showarticle.php?ID=1313)! :eek: :cool: Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Indeed.