How to kill evil Nazi Groundhogs

I Live on a farm. I have horses. I have fields. I have groundhogs. They dig holes which endanger the horses (broken legs), and destroy portions of the fields so that tractors can not run over them without danger of ground collapse (which means I get less money for renting them.) Some of these "Ground Grizzlies" can get quite large and agressive. Both my wife and I have been chased, and our two dogs have both needed stitching up after an ill-advised tangle with these menaces of the dirt.
They have fangs, claws and sharp teeth.
Groundhogs are monsters.
I have tried the "Hadagoper" poison bombs which didn't work even after repeated applications (and yes I followed the directions to the letter.) One of our farmers has even poured gasoline down a hole and lit with a match. (I won't go into the details of that fiasco but suffice it to say that geniuses don't plow fields for $5.50 an hour. Fortunately all the hair on the side of his body holding the match did eventually grow back.) I have poured water into the holes unitl they overflow to no effect (maybe the Groundhogs in this area know Scuba. I have parked myself ontop of a hill with a good book and a scoped rifle and murdered groundhogs by the hundreds but their numbers are legion and they breed prodigiously. I have filled their holes with huge rocks and dirt, but their tunnelling skills are legend and I feel that they laugh at such puny mehtods.

My damn shed is leaning where the undermined a whole side of it, and I can't take it any more. I WANT WAR! I want to commit Genocide one these foul creatures so that they will begone and trouble me no more.

Vengeance will be mine!!

Help ME! Please! How do I make them die horribly? How do I "Wipe them out. Wipe them all out" -Darth Sidious. I have asked before but gotten no response. Are my cries for justice to fall on deaf UNCARING EARS? OR, is there a Mercenary of Marsupial Murder out there willing to share his malicious methods (yes, I know Gopers aren't marsupials , but it sounds good?)

Dare I even go to the extreme of invoking The Great One Himself. Yes. Here me Cecil I am willing to pay the dark price and suffer the wrath of your cutting wit. Just help me. Please.

One caveat: No _Caddyshack_ jokes. Please.

[Cardinal]

yeah, my dad had to finally haul his old .22 out of the attic once to off the gopher, and that's in the city. It managed to still cover itself over with dirt on the way back down, with a slug in its chest.

Have you tried poisoned food? Or would the dogs or something else eat it? Or get a bunch of cats? They excel at catching things I would have thought they'd have no chance at. Just my $.02.

[Diceman]

On the The Home & Garden Network, Paul James, the Gardner Guy, recommended firing up a riding lawnmower or somesuch and piping the exhaust into the holes. You could try it with a tractor, or better yet, any diesel engine you might have access to. I have no idea how well this works. Our garden's never had anything worse than dandelions.

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--It was recently discovered that research causes cancer in rats.

Dave. Thanks for the thoughts. Poisoned food doesn't work. Know why? Because Groundhogs have both cunningly evolved dietary habits and incredibly an incredibly discriminating sense of smell. They are, get this... vegetarians. Not only that but they are also pretty paranoid, because they only eat roots ands such that they dig up themselves (their Mamas must a taught em not to take tubers from strangers,) also, their sense of smell is too acute for us to be able to "Slip them a Mickey" in the form of poison I got most of this from the back of the Hadagopher box.

As for cats. Heh. Heh. I have cats. Maybe I am not describing these villanous creatures well enough. These things are kin to Wolverines. They can get to be over twenty pounds of gristly fury!. Did I mention the GREAT BIG *$#&ing FANGS! The Teeth that BITE, The Claws That Catch. Did I mention that their hide is tough they are practically bulletproof. I exagerate not at all when I tell you that unless you are either very close, or lucky enough to get a head shot a .22 bullet will often simply bounce off a groundhog's hide. I have personal knowledge of this fact.
One of my dogs is an Irish Wolfhound named Corwin. He weighs 125 pounds, and has a head like a shovel. His kind are why there are no wolves left in Ireland. Too bad for him the groundhog he messed with was smarter than him. It stood its ground and when Corwin attacked it chattered its teeth together, charged and leapt onto Corwin's face. Tore him up good enough that one of its bites sunk through the bone and directly into a sinus. That recquired surgery and left me with a $250 vet bill and a great big dog who's afraid of groundhogs. It's embarassing. I don't what kind of cat you have, or are referring to but unless it's a lion are something there ain't no pooty cat I ever heard of who'd mess with a creature like I'm describing.

Diceman:

The lawnmower sounds like a good idea, but I don't think it would work. The Hadagopher bombs that I referred to in my previous post are like this: You cover all the holes except for the two farthest away from each other so the fumes will permeate the entire warren. You light the wick of the Hadagopher bomb, drop it into a hole and Run! You only do this on a day when the wind isn't blowing towards habitations, and you stay over a hundred yards away for two hours because Hadagopher is an intense Smokebomb containing DEADLY POISON! (I have no idea what kind.) The box has all kind of warnings and stuff on it that says it might kill you if you don't follow the directions.
I don't know if they built up an immunity, if they have gas masks or what. I am pretty damn sure that I followed the directions. I can only report that Ground Grizzlies continue to inhabit these warrens, and that I have seen them with my own eyes the day after treatment. Their activity remains undiminshed. In light of these facts, I am skeptical that a little carbon monoxide from a yard appliance can outdo the sheer destructive force of Hadagopher. Who knows though, might be worth a try.

I have big problems here and I require drastic solutions as all conventional methods have failed.

[threemae]

I think you are jumping way ahead of yourself here, you have to get your hands on some plutonium first.

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You know, doing what is right is easy. The problem is knowing what is right.

--Lyndon B. Johnson

Threemae.

You may be right. Too bad for me that Plutonium is not available at the local Agway.

It also occurs to me that Gophers live underground and might be able to survive the subsequent fallout, which would be ironic because I (and you if you live close by,) probably wouldn't.

Unfortunately there is an international agreement against underground nuclear explosions, so I can't take them out that way without being in violation of SaltII or something.

While I am attempting to be humorous about it, my problem with groundhogs is very real, I'm not exagerating about the dogs, the Hadagopher, the .22 bullet or being chased. While I am not adverse to a drastic solution, I do draw the line at nuclear holocaust.

[eggo]

screw poison bombs, use dinamite! use one with a (very) long fuse, cover all but one hole, light the fuse, ram the bomb as far into the hole as you can get it and run like hell! it might take several tries but the will be killed by: a) the blast itself. or b)they will go deaf from the shock wave.

if that doesn't work, get a snake. a big snake. some kind of constrictor, that will go into their burrows and eat their young (pretty picture huh?) afterwords, you can kill the snake with relitive ease.

eggo

[Surgoshan]

Start digging up the whole area and kill all the little fuckers. One at a time with a sawed off shotgun blast right in the face. BAM

Two good suggestions. This is my fault though. Perhaps I should have been clearer in my original post. One of the reasons I need to get rid of the groundhogs is that they lessen the value of the fields. Dynamiting the old alfafa crop isn't going to win me any points with my renters. I also would prefer not to blow myself up i.e. the farmer with gasoline in my first post. I also have the suspician that when a groundhog senses activity near his hole he goes pretty deep and far into that hole. That is the only way I can explain their survival of the gasoline and Hadagopher campaigns. I would hate to blow up my property only to find out the gopher was beyond the blast radius, or hanging out in some gopheresque fallout shelter.
As for the giant snake? Well again we are talking about 20 pound varmints here that I need to exterminate. I don't have access to any snakes large enough to handle a meal like that. I seem to remember that snakes need to eat only once or twice a week. They become torpid if you attempt to feed them more than that. At that rate a snake won't even put a dent in the population. Still, if you or anybody else out there has a giant anaconda ,you are welcome to come out to my place and stick him down a gopher hole to see what happens.

As for digging up all the holes, we are talking about over ninety acres of alfafa, with warrens spread over most of that. That's a lot of digging, and would do as much damage as the dynamite. It might be practical in a couple of areas where there is a concentration of gopher holes though. I wonder if the warrens are interconnected. THat would be a bummer. Dig up a whole area just to have the them take the gopher equivalent of the subway to the other side of town.

I need an espert in Gopher behavior to tell me how to go about these things. Someone experienced in Groundhog combat.

Maybe there is some kind of crop I can plant that gophers hate so much it will make them leave. If somebody out there knows of one please let me know. Maybe some chemist out there knows of a special groundhog poison not available on the open market. Maybe some biowarfare guy can give me some fleas I can drop down a hole that will spread gopher-plague, and kill them all. Maybe there are some quirks in their behaviorial or breeding makeup that I can exploit somehow to lure them to their death.
I do know that sometimes they are aggressive, at others they go deep deep into their burrows at the first sign of activity.

I don't know what the answer

This is a problem that I have had for sometime. I have given it considerable thought and have tried most if not all of the obvious solutions. That is why I am asking for help. I need a groundhog mercenary, or somebody who has won their own war with these vile creatures, and is willing to pass on their strategies. I need a giant intellect that is willing to match wits with the subtle minds of these subteranean rodents.

[funneefarmer]

Have the coyotes moved into your area yet ? I live just one state north of you and am a dairy farmer. Coyotes have reduced the woodchuck population in this area, not much mind you, but some. Have you got any rotten meat and bones hanging around ? Dump them around the holes and possibly coyotes will hang around more often, you can even use coyote calls if you like.

Frankly I don't think those smoke bombs last long enough. My family used to use the same process of plugging all but the 2 farthest holes. Then build a large fire on top of the hole that is the highest altitude. Then a couple feet next to the other hole build a nice smokey fire. The fire on top of the high hole pulls the smoke through from the other smokey fire. Both of these fires should be kept going for several hours. A nice long lasting smoking is what those little buggers need.

I still think the best bet is shooting 'em, may I suggest a larger caliber ? Pay the local high schoolers for each one they kill with a rifle ($5 each ?). Just make sure they shoot them on your property and they are very careful and responsable hunters.

[Harmonious Discord]

I have encountered a groundhog in a field. I would compare them to a badger, if that helps the people telling him to use cats.

I think anything less than a grizzly bear is going to lose the battle.

I agree that a 22 is not going to take out a groundhog. At least use a deer rifle.

Bear traps by the entrances, and I do think it would have to be that large and strong of a trap.

Carbon monoxide? Maybe. How long does it take to completly fill the tunnels in a field? Days?

High voltage and lots of amperage? Yes, but the method of application. Build your own version of a bug zapper for over the holes perhaps?

[Phil Saoud]

In urban areas the standard advice is to kill the grubs that the groundhogs eat. Once they're gone, the groundhogs will start hanging out at your neighbor's place. However, I don't know how practical it is to spray grub poison over the amount of land that you are describing.

[special]

is it too naive to ask, have you talked with anyone at your local extension office?

as for using carbon monoxide, i would think if you wanted to try that, you might get more done faster if you used a regular-sized tractor, maybe borrow a couple more from neighbors.

lordy, it ain't no disney movie out there, huh?

Funneefarmer:
Thank you for the excellent suggestions. There have been reports of coyotes around here, but I have no personal knowledge of their existence. I have mixed feels concernin their potential arrival as I've heard they can be formidable pests in their own right, and are carriers of rabies.
Yes, I now own an excellent rifle. After scoring a direct hit on a groundhog with a .22 and receiving nothing more than a dirty look from the mildly annoyed rodent I went out and purchased the ultimate groundhog assasination device. I have a Savage .223 bull barrel with a bipod and an 18 power scope. I spent part of every weekend this past summer inflicting long range death on the little SOBs. Even a mediocre marksmen like myself can take these monsters out pretty consistantly at ranges up to 250 yards. I have killed over 100 Gophers in this manner, and I cannot fully describe the murderous glee that fills my being with each successful shot. The problem is this: Groundhogs learn! I am at the point where after the first shot or so, the rest of the groundhogs retreat into their holes for several hours making wholesale slaughter in significant numbers impractical. I wonder what they do when they go down there. Do they discuss me in committee? I have fears that it is only a matter of time before they begin shooting back.
Your suggestion of smoking them out bears more thought. Is there some preferred material to be used down at the hole with the smoke. I want to kill them not merely give them a buzz, a cough or lung cancer?

Phil and Special:

Perhaps you did not read my previous posts. I have already explained why Carbon monoxide poisoning wouldn't work, and you present no evidence to the contrary.
I also mentioned that groundhogs are vegetarians. They eat sprouts and tubers, not grubs. Thanks for the thoughts though :)

[Rysdad]

I, too, had a dog that tangled with a woodchuck. Mine was an 85-lb shepherd/elkhound cross. Result: dead varmint but chewed up dog.

All I can offer is to say keep at it. Use all means available. If you make their lives miserable enough, they might move.

Alas, their offspring will probably come back.

PS- A friend told me a story about hunting the woodchuck that was ruining his garden. The end result was that it took a shotgun slug in the varmint's face to solve the problem.

Too bad they don't make industrial-sized, trained ferrets. Or burrowing wolverines.

Good luck.

[Ike Witt]

I can see it coming...The Groundhogs Day Massacre.

[Diceman]

You could to try the Vlad Tepis approach:
Kill a few with your rifle, then impale their bodies on stakes outside the holes. This technique kept the Turkish army out of Transylvania quite effectively. If you could make little iron "condemned man" cages to display their rotting corpses in, somuch the better.

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--It was recently discovered that research causes cancer in rats.

Hmm. some very good ideas here! Something especially appeals to me about the idea that Juicy Fruit could be the secret Achilles Heel to the Evil Groundhog Empire. It's just like the end of _Independence Day_. The President says "Juicy Fruit! That's their weakness! Get on the radio and get the word out." Cut to Will Smith dragging a giant Groundhog across the desert in his parachute.

The winter has been warm and there is groundhog activity out there. I will try both the wrapped and unwrapped varieties of Juicy Fruit and report back on results in one week.

As for staking out the corpses as a warning, well, I am already known as somewhat eccentric by my neighbors (having moved to the country from NYC 6 years ago.) but that might be pushing it.

Leaving dead carrion rotting in the fields brings another problem:

PTERODACTYLS!!!!

Oh sure the neighbors call them Turkey Vultures and say they are harmless, but you and I know better.

These giant winged creatures sense the rotting corpse of a groundhog (or any other creature for that matter,)and magically appear from nowhere to consume it. Then they disappear without a trace.

My theory is that somehow Pterodactyls from the Jurrassic period have the ability to sense the death of a creature in the future. They then travel through time, consume the corpse and return back to the Jurrassic period. I know this is true because there is no other way something that Big and Ugly could remain hidden 99% of the time yet still be keeping an eye on the fields for the occasional carcass. Therefore, (and try to follow my immutable logic here) they must be travelling through time. I have seen these things at relatively close range and believe me THAT AIN"T NO $%@*iING BIRD!!! Therefore they must be Pterodactyls.

I think I've gotten off the point here, but I hope that you will agree with me when I say that as much as I would enjoy Staking out The corpses of my slain Varmint Nemesi (Nemesisses?)the Constant Pterodactyl Threat makes it too much of a risk. They might mistake a napping horse for Big'un and carry it off or something.

I can't believe that there is a website which will actually sell me Strychnine coated seeds over the internet! They are cheap too! Perhaps I will store them in the spice rack. "Gee honey these meatballs sure are good what's the secret?"

Funneefarmer. Seriously. Thank you very much for the workable ideas. I will post results when I have them.

Any others are always welcome as it is always best to explore all possibilites before entering into combat.

"Heeeere Gopher Gopher Gopher. Niiice Gopher. I brought you some Juicy Fruit! Heh . Heh. Heh."

Oh another piece of information I have accumulated on Groundhog behavioral patterns is as follows:

If you mess around with there holes they seem to know and use or create another entrance/exit. I hypothesized this from my experiments with snares and deadfalls (which along with a Spudzooka I learned how to make on the internet. )

As I've mentioned groundhogs are pretty paranoid by nature, and I suspect they will distrust the Strychnine coated seeds. I hope there is something about Juicy Fruit that Drives them wild so they can't resist it! Wrigley could use that in a commercial. "Out of Varmints that chew gum four out of five surveyed prefer Juicy Fruit!"

A link provided by Funneefarmer tells a really great strategy for shooting groundhogs. When they see you they run for their hole, dive down it, turn around and stick their nose out to see where you are. THIS is the moment to shoot them.

I can't wait to try it.

[mipsman]

Have you been licensed yet by the government of the United Nations to hunt gophers?

[Harmonious Discord]

Grubs are eaten by moles. You treat the lawn to kill the grubs the moles ate. Moles leave the raised areas in your lawn.

Mipsman:
No. I do not posess a license from the United Nations to kill gophers. Curiously neither they nor Amnesty International appear to be to concerned with the inhumane treatment of Groundhogs. That is probably because Groundhogs are not human.
THis is an oversight which you may wish to correct. I suggest you contact both agencies and lobby for more stringent Varmint exterminator controls.
For the record, I am in posession of a valid PA hunters license which provides me with the Godgiven right to indiscrimately murder groundhogs at any time I feel like doing so as long as I feel that they doing property damage or are in any other manner pissing me off. So There!

Phobia:

Moles???

[Jophiel]

I have to vote for calling the local County Extension Office or the State/County Agricultural Bureau. Either of them should be able to point you towards methods of ridding yourself of these things, since that's what those offices do, among other things (but you knew that). They might offera better way to use CO2, biological controls (like myxomatosis is used to control rabbits), trapping or whatever. Don't tell me these things don't work - tell them and see what they have to say about it.

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"I guess one person can make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn't."

Al, don't be so quick to dismiss the exhaust gas idea. We used it on prairie dogs back in Oklahoma and it worked. You can't flood out the SOB's because of the way they build their tunnels. But the various exhaust gasses get to all parts of the tunnel. The CO2 is heavier than air and goes to the low parts. CO is lighter than air and gets to the high rooms (where they hid and laughed at your water.) We plugged as many holes as possible to find, dropped a tube from the tractor exhaust into a hole, sealed around the tube as well as we could, then we rode around the area on horses. When one of the little bastards popped up, we shot it and then went and sealed the hole. Like I said it worked well on prairie dogs, it might be worth a try on woodchucks.

BTW I have noticed that gopher and groundhog have been used interchangeably here, they are not the same.



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Sue from El Paso

Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted.

[PUNdit]

AARRGGH!! I did change the name! The last post was from me, not Majormd...

[funneefarmer]

From a search on www.alltheweb.com (http://www.alltheweb.com)
"kill gopher"

Came up with a message board entry...
http://www.topangaonline.com/wboard/messages/415.html

"My mother (73 years old and gardening in east Texas) claims that you can kill gophers by putting Juicy Fruit gum in their holes as bait. (she says it's gotta be Juicy Fruit --- nothing else will do). She claims that the gum blocks up their insides. An alternate school of Juicy Fruit gum gopher poison says that you should leave the foil wrapper on, since the foil is what kills them. I haven't tried it, yet, but who knows? If you try it, post here & let us know if it works."

[funneefarmer]

http://www.diypest.com/poisons.html

This site has seeds soaked with a strychnine solution. Don't know if they'll eat them but you could give it a try.

[funneefarmer]

And one more from Kentucky, should work just as well there though...
http://www.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/for/for44/for44.htm

[Ursa Major]

If you can get someone to plow your land for $5.50 an hour, that's probably the way to go. I don't know how deep the little monsters go, but plowing up the top couple feet would have to make them consider moving somewhere else. Follow the plow with a roller and at least the horses would be safe for a while.

Jophiel:
While I attempt to be homorous here, I do have a serious problem. The second thing I did after asking around locally was visit with my local Ag representitive whose receptionist handed me a general brochure about groundhogs and smokebombs and sent me on my way. They are much more interested in larger concerns than mine. Since I rent my fields out I have no say in what crops are grown, the crop insurance, the fertilization, or what pesticides are implemented. I do not buy farm equiptment nor need help in the financing thereof. I am a guy who walks in in his suit during lunch hour,who moved down here from NYC, and quite frankly they are not impressed with me or my dubious stature as a farmer to offer me any significant help. While my renters are very helpful and nice, and help maintain the fields, it is my responsibility to keep the fields clear of deadfall from the surrounding woods, and deal with the groundhogs with which I am plagued to an unusually large degree. Failure to do so results in less usable land for the farmers, and hence less rental income which I recieve, as well as danger to my horses, dogs and person.
I have used the Smokebombs to no observable effect whatsoever. The brand I used on several consecutive occasions was Hadagopher purchased at my local Agway. I followed the directions. Despite your request to the contrary I will tell you that they did not work. At all.
Myxomatosis which you allude to is a deadly disease of rabbits which is not completely understood, yet is nevertheless used as a pest control method against rabbits. Quite frankly it scares me, but has little bearing here as it is not contagious to groundhogs, nor is there any groundhog equivalent that I am aware of, (and I have looked.)
I have not been able to find anybody who knows anything about trapping groundhogs except for the reference to snares which I already made. As I mentioned, they seem to notice when their holes are disturbed, and just dig another one, avoiding the snare.

MajorMD AKA Pundit:

Hmmm. You raise an interesting point. Perhaps the poor effect of the smokebombs, led me to prematurely dismiss the notion of exhaust gasses in general. I am pretty sure that Gophers and Groundhogs are the same, I cite WWW.suite101.com/article.cfm/living_wildlife/20105 (http://WWW.suite101.com/article.cfm/living_wildlife/20105) as an example where they specifically use both gopher, and groundhog to describe the North American Woodchuck Mormota Monax with which I am specifically plagued (then again, that wouldn't be the first time a web-site was in error) What is the difference? Thanks for the good advice.

Note: I started this thread because I had exhausted the obvious solutions. I have received several excellent suggestions which I will try and then post the results for the curious.

I can't wait to try the Juicy Fruit.

Likewise the advanced sniping techniques.

I will probably order some strychnine seeds on Monday.

I was hasty in my dismissal of exhaust gasses and need to give it an honest try instead of assuming it won't work, because Smokebombs didn't.

If you know of anything I've missed please let me know. Otherwise this should keep me busy.

Thanks for the help and watch out for the Pterodactyls!

[PUNdit]

From Comptons Online Encyclopedia:

GOPHER. The pocket gopher is a gnawing rodent related to the squirrel and the prairie dog. In some places chipmunks and other small rodents are mistakenly called gophers. The gopher spends most of its life underground.
The gopher reaches about 18 inches (46 centimeters) in length. The body is covered with dense, soft fur. The eyes are small, weak, and nearsighted, and the tiny ears are hidden under the skin. Its huge front teeth, called incisors, protrude outside the mouth and are used for tearing roots and bulbs and for loosening soil when the animal is tunneling. Large fur-lined external cheek pouches are used for storing food. The name pocket gopher refers to these pouches, or pockets. The tail is short and bare and has a sensitive tip, by which the gopher feels its way when it moves backward through its tunnels.

Gophers are solitary creatures. The female has a single litter of two to six young in the spring or summer. The male does not stay with the family, and the young scatter as soon as they are weaned from their mother's milk.

Gophers are considered pests by farmers because they do much damage to gardens and alfalfa fields. They also injure the roots of trees and even ruin irrigation canals by burrowing into the banks of the ditches.

The word gopher comes from the French word gaufre, meaning "honeycomb." The name was given to the animals by early French settlers in North America because they honeycomb the ground with their burrowing. Pocket gophers are found only in the Western Hemisphere. They are most abundant in the western United States and in Mexico.Gophers belong to the family Geomyidae in the order Rodentia.

Quite different than the groundhogs I was familiar with in Maryland. Groundhogs spend a lot of time above ground and are huge. Gophers are more like moles and voles -- seldom are they seen above ground.





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"You can be smart or pleasant. For years I was smart.
I recommend pleasant."
Elwood P. Dowd

[Cooper]

Al - I've nothing to add that will help you, but I much appreciate the fact that you've made your plight readable and entertaining.

Good luck in the war.

Cooper:
Thank you. If you can't laugh about your problems what's the sense in having them?

Pundit:
Clearly you are a man who does his research and you have offered me much help, but I s spent the last half hour drinking beer and surfing the net and have come up with the following conclusions: Gophers and Groundhogs seem to be used interchangeably all the time as othe rterms such as Whistle pigs, Ground, Grizzlies,Woodchucks, and those %$^$%# SOB's.

Pocket gophers are something else entirely. They are small and wimpy looking and are not the fierce monsters I've been combatting.

What does this prove???

I have no idea, but we're probably getting humg up over a minor point.

Even though I said "Gopher" not "Pocket Gopher," I hereby concede the point, and will be more specific in my nomenclature in order to avoid confusion.

Clearly:

He would Gopher all that he could pocket.

I see why you raise the question, and while I don't have a box of smokebombs here now I can assure you that Hadagopher was specifically designed for groundhogs. I don't even think we have Pocket Gophers around here. Don't they live in North Dakota or something?

[N oR jVIaL]

Have you tried psychological warfare?
Put a boombox in their tunnel and blast them with Sex Pistols tunes, 24 hours a day. They'll either move or commit suicide.
Barry Manilow would probably work faster, but you might get in trouble with the SPCA for that.

[TBone2]

Alsmith, I sympathize with your plight. And I'll point out to all other readers that the critters of which you speak are GROUNDHOGS, not gophers or prairie dogs or moles. These bastards can and occasionally do tip the scales at twenty pounds or more, and between a groundhog and his hole is NOT a recommended position to find yourself in.

As a VERY experienced 'whistle-pig' eradicator, I'll share with you what I've learned over the years.

Gas bombs and other airborne poisons don't do diddly, other than drain your finances and occupy your time. Ditto for gasoline down the hole and baiting with poisoned food. Filling a burrow with water is probably the best 'non-violent' approach, but the water level has to be maintained for hours, and even then, death of the 'hog is not likely; his hasty abandonment of his humble home is the more likely result.

Snakes??!! Any snake large enough and tough enough to handle one of these creatures is more apt to be dangerous to much larger prey, like your dog or the kid next door. Cats are completely useless, even against very young 'hogs, and I've only seen one dog -- a HUGE German Shepherd -- that could consistently best a groundhog. (He did it by 'stealth' instead of a face-to-face confrontation. It's a long story....)

Crop selection is worth considering. Groundhogs are voracious vegetarians, but they are fairly selective, favoring greens, ESPECIALLY soybean plants. (Groundhogs travel for only two things, in my experience -- sex and soybeans.) Other favorites include grassy plants -- timothy and alfalfa, f'rinstance -- and many garden vegetables. Corn, on the other hand, holds little attraction for groundhogs once it's past the seedling stage.

But, in my experience, the direct VIOLENT approach is most effective. NOTHING works on a 'hog like the impact of a small bit of copper-clad lead traveling at hypersonic speeds.

And don't dismiss the lowly .22! I have successfully send hundreds of these critters to 'hog heaven' with my dad's old Winchester 290 autoloader at ranges up to 110 yards. I favor autoloaders at such close ranges because the sound of the bolt ejecting the spent casing and sliding home with a new cartridge gets lost in the crack of the shot. (Groundhogs, like most wild animals with excellent hearing, are less frightened by the sound of the shot from a rifle -- which is not terribly unlike natural sounds, such as thunder -- than they are by the 'unnatural' metallic racket of a rifle's action.) Stealth and careful shot placement are absolute necessities, however.

For years, I used a beat-up Remington 788 in .222 Rem. caliber, mounted with a Bushnell 3-9x scope. Before taking it afield, I spent weeks experimenting with different handloads, and found one that the rifle liked -- 5-shot, 100-yd. groups that I could cover with the tip of my index finger. With practice, I was able to score one-shot kills on groundhogs at ranges up to 330 yds. pretty consistently. In addition to accuracy, the caliber had the advantages of relatively low noise level and VERY mild recoil, mild enough that I was able to keep the 'sight picture' through the scope when shooting.

I like the suggestion of an earlier poster that you enlist the help of locals. I once had a pretty long list of farmers who would happily pay me $5 for every woodchuck tail I could produce from their fields. Those who raised horses and cattle were especially grateful!

------------------
I don't know why fortune smiles on some and lets the rest go free...

T

[aha]

Ok here is what you do: This has been tried before so I know it works.
You pass the word thoughout the groundhog community that you are taking all groundhogs to the movies and you are paying..also since they are nazi's it might help to pass the word that it is a WW2 film. After you get all the GH's in the movie then you buy them all popcorn. When they get thirsty from all the popcorn and get up to get a coke...you switch seats!
Then at first opportunity you sneak out of the theater and drive home!
Don't bother thanking me its ok.. :)

------------------
"Ward, You're upsetting the beaver."
Barbara Billingsley

Wishing you all the best with the rodents from Hell but also thanking you for the best read I have had for months. Good luck!

Wishing you all the best with the rodents from Hell but also thanking you for the best read I have had for months. Good luck!

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

<font size=6>Listen, goofs. FLOOD THEM OUT!
Pump LOTS of water down their holes, and shoot any that don't drown.

Simple.</font>

------------------
"Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you."----Jung

Tbone2:

Thank you for the excellent advice and sharing your experience I will try to put it to good use.

Aha:
Your idea might work except for the fact that the groundhogs already know me as their sworn enemy. Hmmm. How to spread the information without it seeming to come from me?

I think what I need is a MOLE in their organization. Heh. Heh. Heh.

seperately:

I like Barry Manilow so watch it Bub! ;)

I am tickled to death that some people have seen fit to compliment this thread. Thank you.

Bosda D'ichi of Whatever:

May I humbly suggest that before you use capitol letters and big fonts, that you at least make the effort to read the thread where you will find more than one excellent discussion on flooding. That helps avoid the embarassment you should now be feeling.

As for calling me a "Goof." Well now you've gone and hurt my feelings. Should I try to be big about this, or retaliate, embrace the Dark side, give in to my fury and risk being sent to the BBQ Pit for a flame war?

Better yet, I shall leave you to the swift and unerring justice of our Moderators. "Goofs," Man that's just pushing the envelope you'll have nobody to blame but yourself.

[Lord Jim]

al, I'll join the others in complimenting you on a very entertaining thread, while sympathizing with your plight, I have found this to be a delight to read.

To aid your quest, though, may I suggest you try a diplomatic solution. I'm not talking like aha's suggestion, "hey, come on guy's, let's go to the movies." I'm talking about a real truce. But, before you suggest it, you must prepare the area so that it is a reasonable solution.

First, totally devastate the area. Dynomite, poison, smoke, flood, or anything else you can think of. Then offer the truce, but the most important thing is to offer to rebuild their lost homes. You may be able to infiltrate some dogs and cats into their ranks but I wouldn't count on that. The reconstruction is the key. Offer to build them luxurious condos, and for god's sake build them above ground. Since there are always pockets of resistance, keep your options open to deal with them harshly. Once you have moved all the homeless groundhogs into the above ground condos, a few accidental ;) bombing strikes against the resistance should wipe out the civilian population in "Woodchuck Manor".

Anyway, good luck.

[N oR jVIaL]

"I like Barry Manilow so watch it Bub!"
-----------------------------------------------

Well ya see, there's your problem right there.
You've offended the RocK gods. This groundhog plague is just their wrath.
All you have to do, is to appease them, and the critters will leave.

Try this:
Draw a mustache on Donny Osmond's picture.
Put it inside a copy of Spin magazine.
Roll it up really tight.
Smack Keith Richards in the head with it.
Smoke half of it.
Then bury the other half in Rob ZomBie's front yard.
.... that should do it ....

(and if you get ahold of any records by the Monkeys, you might want to burn those ... just to be safe)

[PUNdit]

OK, I talked to a couple of friends of mine and got one more suggestion. I have never tried this and just offer it as something a desperate person might try.

I was you should get an iron bar about 4 feet long or so and bend it so that you have a 3 foot shaft and a one foot handle, and you should solder wires to it so that the neutral is closest to the bend, the hot wire is closest to the short end. Then, after a rain or thorough watering, you should stick the long end of the bar into the ground and then plug the wire into standard household current. Supposedly, this sends a current through the wet earth that ground hogs find uncomfortable and they will vacate. It also will cause earthworms to come to the surface, so if you are a fisherman you can collect them. I would wear insulated boots though. Actually I wouldn't do this on a bet, but if you are desperate it might be worth a try.

[TBone2]

We had something when I was a kid that caused groundhogs to be alarmed and earthworms (nightcrawlers) to appear.

We called it 'rain.'


------------------
I don't know why fortune smiles on some and lets the rest go free...

T

[PUNdit]

The only reason I brought it up is because you mentioned you had used Hadagopher poison bombs. If those things are designed to kill pocket gophers, they probably won't have much affect on ground hogs.

I had never heard the term whistle pigs but freely admit that Ground Hog and Woodchuck are interchangeable, which brings up the age old question:
How much wood would a wood chuck hog if a ground hog could hog wood?

[aha]

Ok just forget that last post I sent..I was just kidding after all we know that groundhogs don't go to the movies. Here is the real solution to your problem:

Give me your address and I will send my mother-in-law for an extended visit. She can bring her "Nazi" uniform. (I am sieg heiling even as I think about it now.)She can move in (temporarly) of course with the groundhogs. They will at first think it pleasant as she will buy a few cheap gifts for the groundhog babies and make a weak offer to pay for lunch and they will think she is one of them. After about three days however she will begin to get on the groundhog's nerves because they will have to endure the sight of her shuffling around the burrows in her bathrobe ( the one she has had since 66') and basically making a nusiance of herself in the groundhogs kitchen and constantly complaining about the heat or air in the burrows and fiddling with the burrow thermostat..and then GHs will begin to hint around asking stuff like.."are you driving back tonight?" and "when do you have to be back in tulsa?"( her hometown) But she will reply with vague terms like "umm what day is this?" and will remain undaunted. After about a week the groundhogs will be able to endure no more and go insane running screaming into the night like lemmings to the sea.

------------------
"Ward, You're upsetting the beaver."
Barbara Billingsley

[MrSCOTT]

Acquire you some huge speakers, stick then into the ground, and then blast a continuous noise that resonates with teh natural frequency of the groundhogs. This will cause them extreme distress in the least, and at best they with shake apart into a gelatinous goo that will be quite beneficial to the soil!

Ok seriously tho... what about those ultrasonic frequencies that certain rodents are said to hate? The ground is an excellent conductor of sound so maybe blasting some undesired noise into the ground will have some effect?

-MrSCOTT

[funneefarmer]

Well I've seen those outdoor spikes that use electronic means for moles. They don't seem to cover a huge distance though and we're talking acres here not a back yard. These might work on a mound to mound basis though.

I'm thinking decoys though. Lifelike female woodchuck decoys. Maybe some lipstick and a nice bushy tail. Get those Whistle Pigs whistling. When they come far enough out of their hole you give them the blow job they want, aim for the woody and chuck the remains.

[Boris B]

Here's my partly serious suggestion:

You've mentioned that the hogs tend to melt into the ground after you've shot a few with your .223. Have you considered a subsonic round? The .300 Whisper cartridge is touted as being a nice, heavy round with very little noise. If you wanted to go whole hog, you could even get yourself a suppressed weapon - registration is not all that hard, but there's a Federal transfer tax (I think it's $200) plus whatever your state charges.

Of course, it's not going to be as flat-shooting as .223, which might be a prohibitive concern. On the other hand, it will make all the rifle freaks in your area really envious.

I actually don't know if it would work. I mean, the groundhogs might be alerted by something other than noise, or they might have really good hearing. But it's a pretty neat idea. http://www.hessearms.com/hacal.htm

------------------
That which does not kill me just makes me really irritable

[Boris B]

I'm not sure I quite understand what creature you're dealing with hear. Is it the one featured in this link?
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com/Groundhogs.htm#Are Woodchucks Dangerous? http://www.geocities.com../SiliconValley/3694/grndhog.html

Those links refer to groundhogs/woodchucks, but from the pictures they look quite a bit smaller than grizzly bears, and seem like they would be less than a match for a mastiff, cougar, or human in hand-to-hand combat. I don't know, though, a friend of mine claims she was attacked by nutrias at one point, and another friend says he surprised that I had not been seriously injured when I drove a raccoon out of my yard by waving an axe and howling. Go figure.

[Boris B]

http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com/Groundhogs.htm
That link should work

[douglips]

You are all going to think I'm crazy, but I recall seeing a news article about a guy who had converted some kind of tank truck (septic tank truck?) with a vacuum cleaner to suck up groundhogs/prarie dogs. Apparently after slamming into a padded wall at close to 80 mph the little suckers were OK and could be released in a remote location or sold for food/pets/experiments.

The guy apparently had success in eradicating entire colonies.

I have looked high and low and can't find any reference to this on the web, so it's as good as a fairy tale at this point.

Spent an hour writing a post, computer got weird, tried to save it, rebooted, now it's all garbled. I suspect the sabotage of Marmota Monax who must have somehow figured we are getting close to an answer here. I will save it as possible evidence against them. Too bummed out over this to try and fix it right now, but will post it as si if anybody cares.
Douglips may be a genius. Has anybody else heard anything about this mythical Hog-sucker?

[Rysdad]

Whoda thunk that this topic would be the one to make me laugh out loud?

Pterodactls, shootin' woodies and hog suckers, oh my!

BTW...I share your loathing for varmints (see my "Ooooh I really, really hate squirrels!" thread).

Maybe a hog roundup is in order? Invite the Dopers over, arm them, then promise X amount of free beer for each ground hog dispatched. Judging by Guy Stuff, you'd probably get a hell of a response, and you might even get an FA-18 to drop high explosive ordnance.

------------------
"Sharpen your cutlasses. There may be skullduggery ahead." The Penguin

[Diceman]

I've heard about the groundhog sucking guy! IIRC his vehicle is, indeed, a converted septic truck. God only knows what the groundhogs think as they get sucked into a metal tank that probably still smells like crap :D. Sorry, I have no idea where one might find this guy, but you can rest assured that you didn't imagine him.

------------------
--It was recently discovered that research causes cancer in rats.

[Squee]

I was just re-reading this thread. Damn funny stuff! I am of the opinion that the exhaust gases will probably be your best bet. Will that have any negative effects on the soil? Carbon monoxide isn't good for animals, how good can it be for plants?

[EvilGhandi]

The truck mentioned is not a typical septic pumping truck but an unusually powerfull vaccuume truck known as a Vactor.

Back when I was in hazardous waste abatement, we used to use it too suck up contaminated soils and other heavy stuff that resisted cleanup by other methods. (read shovel and bucket)

The thing can indeed pull a fierce vaccuume (i don't recall how many inches of mercury)almost living up to the "suck a golfball through a gardenhose" test. Not sure how it would do over such a large area.

Check the local listing for vaccuume trucks and see if anyone will give you a quote. That is, if they stop laughing long enough after your query.

[Jvanhorn]

OK, wat I've got to say may be impractical, but not everything that has been said so far is paractical, so here goes.

When we were farming, one of the most effective means of groundhog disposal was oening the valve of the liquid manure spreader into a hole, and waiting at the other hole with a gun. (.22 definitely works at a range of 2-3 feet) Sometimes, the splash can be a problem, though.

I have, personally:

1. Stomped a woodchuck to death. (He was kicking my brother's ass)

2. Killed one with a rock.

We also owned a basset/beagle mix dog that would spend an entire day digging out a woodchuck, then kill it, and take it to the pond, to stand on it and hold it under the water. I've seen that dog climb a pussywillow tree after a woodchuck. Believe it. The dog must have had skeletons in his closet of some kind. He hated woodchucks desperately. And he wasn't really all that big, either, probably 40 lbs.

But this has been a very enjoyable thread.

Now that I don't farm, I kind of like woodchucks. :)

[Mr Thin Skin]

What about predator urine? You can buy stuff like Coyote urine.

How about a giant lightning rod? Put mother nature to work for you.

[moriah]

The benefit of the combustion engine exhaust is that it's smell, bad as it is, won't cause the 'hogs to run away from it like the poison smoke bomb. Carbon monoxide, once the other emissions have settled out of it will pool in in the upper varmint caverns. Being relatively odorless, the 'hogs will walk around in it, start getting drousy and then fall asleep -- never to wake up again.

Also, you can keep the engine running for hours at a time, and repeat daily -- something that the smoke bomb makes difficult.

Now, someone mentioned carbon dioxide in tandem with the carbon monoxide. I don't know how much CO2 is produced in exhaust, but if not a lot is produced, you may want to consider finding some CO2 tanks and sending it into the tunnels. As has been said, the CO2 sinks and will pool in low spots. And it is completely odorless. So, unlike water, they'll never know the dip in the tunnel is a death trap.

Also, you can get several cars, tractors, and whatnot all going at once all around the property. Remember, you need to keep this going for a few hours at a time, and maybe repeat a few times a week.

Peace.

[WIGGUM]

I know a guy who goes, as he calls it, (hog-huntin') with his pit bull. This dog is as nice as can be to humans, but you release this thing on a groundhog and it goes hog-wild. (Pun intended) But seriously, I've seen his dog tear into a groundhog, and it's over pretty quickly. So what you need to do is get yourself a pack of pit bulls and set'em loose. It's fun for the whole family.

[Mr Thin Skin]

You may also join rec.hunting or rec.guns and post questions there. They are mostly country folk who deal with varmits all day long.

[funneefarmer]

Another idea...

I seem to remember seeing a mole chaser that uses a small windmill to shake the ground a little and make living there uncomfortable.

Now let's upgrade this idea.

Build a windmill that will include two things to annoy the varmint. Let's say we build a relatively mobile windmill that will turn with a small breeze. Now with using cogs or pulleys make an apparatus that will make some noise and that will hammer on a pipe or piece of metal that can be put in the ground (or on the ground) that will cause some slight vibration of the earth.

The noise should preferably imitate the sound of your rifle ( take a ruler and hit it against a piece of rubber etc. ). This does 2 things, first it scares them inot leaving (okay maybe one or two of them), second it makes them think this sound is naturally occuring and a normal part of their environment (heh, heh, target practice).

The vibration probably will bother them to begin with, then wear off. It will imitate the shaking of vehicles and hopefully cover your movements.

[Eve]

Jiminy! And people say us city folks are brave—all we have to deal with is insane cab drivers, muggers and the occasional mime or performance artist!

This is beginning to sound like "Night of the Lepus!"

[Mr Thin Skin]

Eve, there are two kinds of varmits: two-legged and four-legged. You live in an ecosystem that supports the two-legged variety. Alsmith lives where the four-legged are predominate.

[ellis555]

how 'bout freezing their little punk asses? i've never tried this myself, but the vapor from liquid nitrogen sinks to the ground. so go out there in the winter (i assume they hibernate deep in their burrows) and start pumping N2 down their holes. they might get up to grab a few extra blankets, but hopefully they won't really notice the extra chill until it's too late. come spring, you can dig up a bunch of hogsicles.

ellis

The exhaust gas idea works, and it doesn't take a tractor or truck or bus. Just a little ole leaf blower.
My "gopher getter" was used successfully by a dairy farmer to rid his fields of groundhogs.
First thing to do is disassemble and remove the muffler from the leaf blower. You then use conduit to pipe the exhaust to within 2" of the blower intake.
Stick the blower outlet into the groundhog tunnel and seal around it. Cover and seal as many of the other holes as you can find. Start up the blower, and using the trigger lock set it to run at about half throttle.
You may then wait to see what happens, or go to dinner, whatever you please.
The CO produced by the engine is almost completely blown into the tunnel system, and there will not be a tractor or other vehicle requiring supervision. Not being able to afford CO detectors, the groundhogs will usually expire from being in a closed space with engine exhaust present.
You may go out and refuel the blower as many times as it takes to completely load the tunnel system with the deadly gas.
I originally designed the machine to eliminate some moles that made my lawn look like something out of a bugs bunny cartoon, but found that it works for anything that resides below ground.


------------------
FixedBack

"A dead thing can go with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it."~~G.K.Chesterton

N orJVI al:

Thank you for your suggestion. Your theory that my liking of Barry Manilow's music has somehow angered the Gods of Rock and Roll and that I must undergo ritual cleansing in order to remedy the situation was very insightful.

Unfortunately you are wrong Because:

A: Barry Manilow Rocks (he writes the songs that make the whole world sing,) and

B: Even if he dosn't (perish the thought) I somehow suspect the Gods of Rock and Roll would choose something other than Groundhogs as their vehicle of vengeance. I mean if it was Menudo digging holes in my fields I might agree with you, but Groundhogs?

Pundit:
Thank you again, for another excellent suggestion. I am certain however that electricity as you've described it wouldn't work (actually it would, but we are talking enough juice here to power a city block.) I have an electric fence and some knowledge of things electrical, so let me explain.

Lay an electrical fence wire on the ground, turn the fence on, and stand between the wire and its "ground" post. Feel anything? Nope.

Now hook the wire back back up and turn the fence on and grab the wire!

You are now on the ground doing what the locals call the "Funky Chicken." This by the way is considered great fun around here.

"Come here I want to show you something in the pasture"

"Okay, is the fence on?"

"No, look." He climbs through.

"Oh okay" Starts to climb throuh, accomplice lurking by switch turns fence on. Funky Chicken.

This is how the neighbors welcome the new guy who just moved down here from the city ;)

The thing is, when you grab the fence you are the only conduit to ground. You get hit with 100% of the juice. If you just pass it through the ground it gets diluted very quicky.

There is a "bug zapper" type contraption that I saw on the net for rats. Too small for hogs though.

Funnefarmer:

Your suggestion of Fellatio Interruptus Castration is far to horrible to contemplate.

AHA:

Though it's not in the archives here, (that I could find) I recall an article by Cecil debunking the use of Sonic repellents against rodents, and I'm not about to argue with him.

Boris B:

Yes these are GROUNDHOGS. MARMOTA MONAX. Not moles,mice,hamster,squirrel,chipmunk,shrew, nor wombat,vole,lemur,Opossum, or finch. They are the same vicious bastards that were responsible for Bill Murray's troubles in GROUNDHOG DAY and CADDYSHACK both (and don't tell me that's coincidence!)

The silenced .300 sniper-rifle you provided a link to looks very cool. Again I can't believe That I can by Sniper rifles and Strychnine coated seeds over the internet. Kind of scary. Now, who was that guy who called us "Goofs?"

I am not using giant lightning rods! It could take years for a strike.

The windmills might work, but that's getting kind of silly.

While your dog may be tough, mine have learned that Wisdom is the better part of valor as far as messing with Groundhogs goes, and have become sissies.

I think flooding will be difficult because the Groundhogs tunnel vertically and create chambers that would form air pockets. You would need to flood them long enough to use up the oxygen. I have a couple of 55 gallon drums a pickup and a garden hose. That ain't gonna cut it.

The idea of pouring liquid manure down their holes so that the have to swim through **** in order to escape only to have their ****ing heads get blown off by me, waiting at the exit with a shotgun does have a certain appeal.

I have no access to liquid nitrogen and would hate to kill myself figuring out how to pour it down a hole.

Eve:

I used to live in NYC and all I can is that at least the Groundhogs won't take your wallet, or shoot back. Yet.

Converting a leafblower into a groundhog euthanasia device sounds like an excellent idea. I was wrong to have dismissed exhaust gas out of hand because of my bad experience with Smoke bombs. I will try this if the Juicy Fruit and seeds doesn't work.

If that doesn't work I will launch a concerted multi-pronged attack in early spring in an attempt to decimate their ranks before they breed and spread.

While I might not be able to muster a horde of ruthless teenaged Marmot bounty-hunters armed with autoloading, and silenced sniper rifles (and would have second thoughts about having them run around what is essentially my back yard.) I should be able to put something together.

If that doesn't work I will get the Hog-sucker, build a windmill, Freeze some nitrogen and drink myself into a permanent stupor.

As far as posting at rec.hunters or something as has been suggested, well do you think they would have come up with Juicy fruit, Liquid Nitrogen, or electroshock therapy?

Thanks again, will post results as I have them.

[funneefarmer]

Cheap supply of liquid Nitrogen delivered to you directly can be found by contacting your local artificial inseminator. Frozen sperm (we're talking bull here, get your heads out of the gutter) requires a tank with liquid Nitrogen to keep frozen. Artificial inseminators and sperm salesmen (gives new meaning to cold calling for customers, hey?) usually deliver liquid nitrogen relatively inexpensively.

[torq]

How about liquid ammonia fertilizer? Not so much to freeze them as to poison them or drive them out.

[eggo]

How about liquid ammonia fertilizer? Not so much to freeze them as to poison them or drive them out.


or if you added desil to it you could blow them all to hell...oaklahoma city style.


eggo

[Crystalguy]

Greatest thread I have ever read. All I ever did was to shoot the little bastards. I favor the idea of exhaust fumes from a gasoline engine. But that means a lot of energy going to waste. Couldn't you use a sawmill or two? Or a new well that requires a pump? At least get some use from the motive source other than death, although that is satisfying.

[Gigoloman]

Alsmith-

Lets expand on the gas idea. Use a gas that is flammable but not combustible. Or a heavy gas. As some of us have seen matresses and furniture and household items create a thick "toxic" smoke about 12 inches of the ground. Other light toxics and smoke tend to be higher in the layers. Thats why people are advised to crawl out of fires but not to be too low to the ground.

Turns out the "low" level toxics are more deadly but arent as hot as high level gasses and smoke.

Use a heavy flammable gas and after it has been present for 5 hours or so (giving time to fill most spaces and be inhaled by rodentia) give it a match. A blue flame should be seen (like propane or low level heat) that should "chase" the gas trail. The flame will use all O2 thus suffocating some rodents if not all. The flame should incinerate some more (the inhaled gas in the lungs being flammable should internally roast a few too). Now you have a three pronged attack against an embedded or entrenched enemy.

Thank the army not me. Chemical weapons are mans biggest miscreation.

-G

PS mustard gas works too and is easy to make.
Chlorine bleach and ammonia used through a "fogger" are wonderful too.

[Diceman]

For a gas attack, exhaust fumes are good, at least in theory. Carbon dioxide (the main component of the exhaust, along with water vapor) will sink into the lower holes because it's heavier than air. This will asphyxiate any groundhog who doesn't move into a higher chamber. However those that do will run into carbon monoxide, which is lighter than air and poisonous (people who run their car in a closed garage find this out the hard way). The only option for beasts is to leave the tunnels, in which case you're standing around with your rifle.

------------------
--It was recently discovered that research causes cancer in rats.

[N oR jVIaL]

"I somehow suspect the Gods of Rock and Roll would choose something other than Groundhogs as their vehicle of vengeance. I mean if it was Menudo digging holes in my fields I might agree with you, but Groundhogs?"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

hehehehehe ..... you do have a good point there.
Maybe you need to play Alvin and the Chipmonks, backwards.

okay, okay... I'll try to be serious.
I read on one of the posted links, that they don't like to get very far from their den, to feed. I'm not sure what's growing in the area now, but you might want to consider an alternate crop.
I would suggest marijuanna. They will eat it. (trust me)
It shouldn't take very long for them to become so useless that they just sit around all day, pondering the secrets of the universe, enstead of digging.
.... no digging... no problem

..... well hey, I said I would try to be serious ... it's just so hard ...

[{:-Df]

Al,

I think perhaps your real problem is that you may have misidentified its cause. IF the root of your problem were that the woodhogs, groundchucks, etc., quote breed prodigiously unquote then guns 'n' gas would sound like a good solution.

But I think that you unkowingly put your finger on it in your 1/9 1:11am post: you're the New Guy From The Big City around there. The ag people sent you on your way, no doubt snickering behind your back...your neighbors see your suit and fall silent...only your renters are "helpful and nice." Uh huh. Look around! Do THEY have whistle pig problems? I thought not!

It's obviously a plot. Everyone is just waiting for you to give up and go back to the Big City. Your renters are even profiting from paying you less rent - and everyone is getting all that free entertainment. I'm sure that almost all of those Poor Richard's Wolverines are planted; they may even be paying them! It's so obvious!

So here's what you do: make friends. Throw a big banquet or something, get some overalls, maybe muss some hay into your hair, but mostly jest gitcherself accepted. Overnight you'll find that this nightmare will end, and the gophers will go back to whatever temp agency they work for.

Y'all'll get a good laugh from it, years from now, 'specially when some other slicker tries to move into the county and YOU do the same thing to HIM.

[ellis555]

you can get liquid nitrogen from industrial/medical gas supply companies. the one in my area (northern vermont) is merriam-graves (http://www.merriam-graves.com). according to the site, they have 15 locations in the north east.

enjoy

ellis

[special]

hey, al, altho you poo-pooed my first suggestions (& later decided they weren't so bad when one of the GUYS re-suggested the same stuff--not that i'm intimating gender bias or anything), i had another thought between giggles after {:-Df's post. (currently being a redhead instead of a blonde, i often get 2 or 3 thoughts in a row. honest.)

what do your neighbors do about this prob in their fields? assuming they aren't actually peeking out from behind the trees & also giggling. knowing for sure that you were the only city slicker around &, therefore, they were safe only in your fields seems a bit high level even for such obviously devious rodents. the groundhogs i mean, not your neighbors.

I have wronged thee. Will you forgive me. I dismissed your idea not out of gender bias, but because of a bad assumption: That the awesome destructive force of Hadagopher was A Priori Inherently superior to what comes out of an exhaustive pipe. Much to my chagrin it has been demonstrated to me that this is not the case, hence my retraction and apologies.

My neighbors almost exclusively shoot their groundhogs. THose that are familiar with my property tend to agree that I am unusually plagued with the foul varmints, and I have found shooting insufficient.

Perhaps my property represents some kind of Groundhog Mecca? I don't khow. My fields are gently sloping and are surrounded by woods and two ponds. Alfafa is currently planted in the fields. It is my understanding that this combination is "HOG HEAVEN"

Again my apologies. I stand humble and corrected. You were indeed the first to make the suggestion.

[TwistofFate]

Having enormously enjoyed the thread so far,
I would have one consideration. How would your soil react to having Liquid Nitrogen pored down it. whouldnt most of the Chemicals mentioned ave a detremental effect on soil pH level.

the Groundhog Sucker. it sounds so good. I want to buy some hog ridden land just to have a go at such a machine.

would lighting (and sustaining) a fire at most of the entrances to the warren (?) cause a vacum and suffocate them? and you could pop any of them coming out of an entrance with minimum effort.

any good to you?

[special]

awww, it's ok, ya big lug. come over here & let me straighten yer tie. (tie. like suit & tie? get yer mind outta the gutter.)

John:

Overfertilization with Nitrogen or ground poisoning represent a scorched earth kind of policy, and would not only adversely affect the land, but harm the drinkability of local water.

[Boris B]

Hey you guys, clarify what you mean by liquid nitrogen hurting the soil. I can't imagine problems what problems elemental (non-fixed) nitrogen would cause for soil, but there could be something I haven't thought of.

------------------
That which does not kill me just makes me really irritable

[TwistofFate]

sort of what I was thinking of.... cheers!
and you'd probably end up with a jailterm for the pollution thing

RE: Nitrogen

Try this out home. Pour a box of Miracle-Gro all in one place on your grass.

Watch the grass die.

Overfertilization is poison.



------------------
Often wrong,...NEVER in doubt!

[ellis555]

now, i wasn't really serious when i suggested the nitrogen bit, but i strongly disagree that it would cause any pollution. liquid nitrogen will go directly into vapor phase as it heats up. since the vapor is still extremely cold, it will sink at first (getting the little varmints). but once it warms up more, it will rise, dissapating harmlessly into the atmoshpere, which already contains plenty of the stuff.
the nitrogen from liquid N2 is neither a)going to be fixed by your alfalfa, nor b)going to run off into local streams the way nitrogen in fertilizer will.
it may not be practical, but it won't be poisonous. and it would be fun.

ellis

[EvilGhandi]

Got my latest Gardening magazine today.

A woman solved her problems with voles eating her tulip bulbs with an ingenious idea.

In between her tulip rows she tilled, get this, broken beer bottles into the soil. She plowed them in about 8"'s to a foot deep. Claims it has lasted 3 seasons with no return invasions.

Seems the little buggers disliked getting their paws shredded far more than they liked raiding her garden.

Since your raiders tend to strike from below, this might be a good passive solution. I was picturing channels 8" wide set up in a 12 foot grid. You could set out a test area before trying it out on the full acreage.

[funneefarmer]

That's a lot of beer, you better get drinking. I think you'll have to go deeper than that though. Might as well get one of those underground cable burying trucks and put in some underground barb wire fencing...

[TwistofFate]

Ellis,
Thank you for clearing up that point for me.
I was unsure of the effects of Nitrogen in Soil, (being more of a physics sympathiser than chemistry :) )

------------------
John Larrigan

"82.35% of all statistics are made up on the spot"--Vic Reeves

[barton]

alsmith:

>One of my dogs is an Irish Wolfhound named >Corwin. He weighs 125 pounds, and has a >head like a shovel. His kind are why there >are no wolves left in Ireland.

An excellent literary reference there in the name. I'll keep their woodchuck-vunerability in mind.

[jazzmine]

Here is a reference that says juicy fruit won't work:
http://www.globalgarden.com/Gardeners/Archives/vol.2/1517.html

Truthfully, this thread has been so much fun, that I'd be willing to come over, sit in lawn chairs, drink lemonade and watch. :)

trisha

[Scylla]

Barton:

Yes, first heard about them from that source
Love using that line

(alsmith was murdered, Scylla lives on)

[dgiddens]

If you type "prairie dog vacuum" into HotBot you'll get several articles about Gay Balfour, the guy in Colorado that invented the prairie dog removal system. His company is called "Dog-Gone," appropriately enough. I don't know if he has a vacuum big enough for a groundhog, though.

[Cooper]

I'm with Jazzmine. Come spring if your still infested I'll take a few days vacation, come on out and sit in a lawn chair. Only I want mine to recline, and I'd prefer beer over lemonade (but that should help provide you with the broken glass you need, right). I'd ask to borrow my dad's rifle as well, but something about beer and guns doesn't sit well with me.

[Doctordec]

Gee, a good old .22 Marlin with a CCI Stinger round took out the groudhogs in my backyard. The used to spook pretty easy and I found the best way to get them was to run full speed towards them rather than try to sneak up. Shotgun worked well also. Starting fluid is the ultimate varmint kill in my opinion. It's almost 100% ether, I think the vapor is heavier than air, and it's cheap. Buy a few cans, empty them into the holes, and plug as needed. I've used it to kill a raccoon in a garbage can but never needed it for groundhogs. Explosive as hell, too, so if the fumes won't croak the sum bitches, spray some more and toss a match down the hole. But wear your helmet !

------------------
"Hope is not a method"

[Scylla]

Yeah maybe we can get Cecil to come along.

dgiddens:

Thanks for the info here's the link http://www.schwarze.com/asforum/v1n1/v1n1prariedogs.html

got his phone # there too.

mentioned utility for pocket gophers, said nothing about Monstrous Ground Grizzlies. I question the ability of a machine to "suck" hard enough to to yank in one of these giants though. Am not familiar with Vac-all

[{:-Df]

the Groundhog Sucker. it sounds so good. I want to buy some hog ridden land just to have a go at such a machine.
It's so obvious, when the real answer finally arrives...

Your problem is YOU THINK YOU HAVE A PROBLEM. You don't! (At least, not if you can get over this obvious fixation with alfalfa...) Whatcha got there is what we in the industry call AN OPRAHTUNITY.

Gitcherself one o' them there Sucker Machines. Put up some concessions and a nice family picnic area. Put up a big sign - maybe on a hot air balloon - sayin' somethin' like Hog-Wild Heaven, Home of 500 Horses of Hog-Sucking Power and The Most Fun East of the Mississippi and charge people fer the ride! Your hot air balloon could double as another ride. Other possibilities for concessions and/or contests: Name That Sound! Fastest To Fifty. The Hog-Wrasslin' Pit. Live WhackaMole. With a little creativity you could be set for life.

...Just pray that you never run out of groundhogs!

Without a doubt, this has been the most fun, most hilarious thread I have ever read and/or participated in.
I am very aware of why I feel so much at home with the Dopers after seeing all the bordering-on-insane solutions they are coming up with for the ultimate demise of the "ground grizzlies". :D


------------------
FixedBack

"Moderate strength is shown in violence, supreme strength is shown in levity."~~G.K.Chesterton 1908

[Scylla]

Experimental data:

Very cold and windy.

No groundhog activity.

Juicy fruit remains intact.

The bastards are probably hibernating.

[douglips]

dgiddens, you rock my world.

I tried every combination of 'prarie dog', 'gopher' and 'groundhog' + 'vacuum' I could think of, and came up dry.

I still think this is the most ingenious application of atmospheric pressure ever. Reverse sprinklers be damned, Scylla, the atmosphere is conspiring to wipe out evil Nazi groundhogs!

[funneefarmer]

They're not hibernating, they're plotting. May I suggest the use of some listening equipment ? http://www.msvalves.com/leaksear.htm
It is actually intended for finding water leaks but I think we can make it work as a remote listening device. Now all we need is an interpreter.

[douglips]

Finally, thanks to dgiddens' help, I've found the original article I read a few years ago.

Prayer, then a dream, inspired giant vacuum to humanely suck up prairie dogs (http://www2.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/nation/090896/nation6_13769.html)

This is a way better story than the vacuum truck web site one. I think my work here is done.

[Scylla]

The link is cool, the princi-iple may be sound, but a four inch hose ain't gonna cut it.

These babies are BIG!

Douglips:

Now concerning the angular momentum of the prairie dog as it passes through the hose, which way will the hose rotate?

------------------
Often wrong.... NEVER in doubt

[NewtonsApple]

Who killed Alsmith and Why?

[Scylla]

Newtonsapple:

Alsmith got killed for three reasons.

1. Wanted another name first but messed up registration (e-mail portion)

2. Assasinated in Great Debates by the combined might of The Good Dr. Fidelius, and David B. in evolution without religion thread. (David B kicked the corpse repeatedly with unrepentant glee. This should tell you something.)

3. Got a little bit scared concerning some of the people and events occuring on this board, and decided a little more anonymity might be in order.

Documented this in MPSIMS under alsmith, dead so I wouldn't be misconstrued as a Multi-Personality Poster.

I am now wondering why I bothered.

------------------
Often wrong.... NEVER in doubt

[NewtonsApple]

Thank you for the explanation :)

I liked Alsmith I didnt want to lose him. David and some others do have a way of "assassinating" some folks. Yes I spelled it that way for a reason :)

Good to see you will be around though.

[Scylla]

Actually I rather enjoyed the asassination.

In all fairness there was nothing mean about it all.

I was horribly wrong in my assertions, and this was clearly proven to me.

I learned something I'd been in error about for years, and it opened up new knowledge, and another area of interest that was unknown to me, so I am not ungrateful.

One must not hold back when striking a blow against ignorance.

After reading portions of other threads I can sympathize with their actions.

I wish to mention this for the record, so that if in the future a certain party were to find his backyard suddenly inundated with a certain species of Marmota Monax....

(ummm. never mind)

Heh Heh Heh.

------------------
Often wrong.... NEVER in doubt

[Scylla]

Thanks for the compliment.

[Lord Jim]

I miss Al, too. he seemed like such a fun loving guy, could make light out of even the worst of problems. Much different than the guy that beat me up over in the Feynman Puzzle thread.
Just kidding. ;)
But really, what's wrong with the idea of soliciting help from the locals. This maybe the wrong time of the year up there, but before the groundhogs start scattering babies all over the place. (They are so hard to kill. They are so cute when they are little.)
I think you should go into town, to the local saloons, post a few notices around that you are going to give a can of beer for each dead groundhog that is brought to you, plus free hot dogs.
On the designated day, ice down the bed of your pickup and throw in about ten cases of beer, also, buy a package of hotdogs. The hotdogs are important because if gives you a real good reason to stay behind and handle the grill. No one's going to eat them, though, but you don't really want to be out in the fields at this time. The rest of the family may want to go visit Grandma.
I can see how you could easily take out about 240 groundhogs per party. Hell, I might even come up there and get me a few, too.

[Scylla]

You didn't think that instantaneous implosion was funny?

You need to see Deer Season around here to understand my fear of a Beer drinking/ groundhog asassination party.

We keep the horses in the barn, the dogs inside, and once or twice a season I have an unpleasant confrontation with an armed sometimes drunk belligerent hunter who doesn't feel that property lines apply to him.

I have a few very scary stories about this.

Something along the lines of hiring a few trustworthy local bounty hunters early in the season is probably in order though.

THanks.



------------------
Often wrong.... NEVER in doubt

[Lord Jim]

Oh, Scylla, of course, I thought it was funny.
But on the subject, take your chances, you may only need one party. If you can protect yourself and family and animals, you may have a two-fold solution in the making.
First you could rid yourself of a lot of groundhogs in a short period of time. (By the way, I forgot to mention, have some shovels availible, there is no telling to what extent they might go to for the beer.) But you may also get rid of a lot of menacing drunk hunters in the process.
Think about it. It's only one day or so. Maybe put the grill in the storm cellar.

[TBone2]

This board has been a hoot! I'm amazed and impressed with the bizarre and improbable suggestions for dealing with Al's problem.

Broken glass!!?? Maybe for voles, little critters smaller than field mice. Vacuum? The practical considerations are enough to blow that one away. Maybe with prairie dogs, who tend to congregate in relatively narrow tunnels, but not with Marmota Monax!

DO NOT underestimate the innate toughness of the groundhog!

Example 1: Around 20 years ago, I watched my dad nail a 'hog with a .22-250-caliber varmint rifle. The 'hog was DOWN. When I started to leave to dispose of the body, Dad said, "Son, take the .22," referring to the .22 rifle in the back of the pickup. "Dad, it's dead," I replied. "Take the .22," he insisted. I walked the 250 yards to the 'hog's hole and found it flat on its back, gut-shot. It was NOT a pretty sight, and the 'hog was, for all intents and purposes, dead. But the 'hog, not knowing this, greeted me with a rather menacing gnashing of inch-and-a-half long teeth. (Yeah, they're that long!) A quick shot to the 'hog's head resolved the situation....

Example 2: Not long afterward, I was poised with a .22 on top of a fencepost, with the idea of ridding my father of a particularly pesky 'hog. It was early in the morning, and the 'hog was totally unsuspecting. I caught him at a range of about 70 yards, standing upright and munching on my dad's soybeans. Taking careful aim, I squeezed off a shot. The 'hog dropped to the ground, and came galloping (at least as 'hogs can gallop) up the bean-row straight at me. To make a long story short, I dropped the hammer four more times, the last time when the 'hog was disappearing amongst the briers that fortified his home in the fencerow along the south edge of the field. After the 'hog vanished, and when it was plain that no others were about to volunteer, I went to see if I had done any damage. After considerable tracking, I found the 'hog, quite dead. I had hit him with all five shots. He had completed the last leg of his run for his hole with two bullet-broken legs, a flesh wound down his port quarter, and a slug-hole in one of his lungs. Only the last bullet -- smack through the side of his head -- had stopped him.

Not long after this episode, I traded Dad's trusty .22 for something with a bit more authority.

Gas don't get it. Glass will NEVER get it. Baiting is a joke, as is persuasion. Not even Barry Manilow will drive them out of their holes, even though Barry would drive me off the planet!

It's just so simple: high-velocity, small-caliber bullets fix everything!

Shoot me some email, Al, and we'll work this out!


------------------
I don't know why fortune smiles on some and lets the rest go free...

T

[TBone2]

This board has been a hoot! I'm amazed and impressed with the bizarre and improbable suggestions for dealing with Al's problem.

Broken glass!!?? Maybe for voles, little critters smaller than field mice. Vacuum? The practical considerations are enough to blow that one away. Maybe with prairie dogs, who tend to congregate in relatively narrow tunnels, but not with Marmota Monax!

DO NOT underestimate the innate toughness of the groundhog!

Example 1: Around 20 years ago, I watched my dad nail a 'hog with a .22-250-caliber varmint rifle. The 'hog was DOWN. When I started to leave to dispose of the body, Dad said, "Son, take the .22," referring to the .22 rifle in the back of the pickup. "Dad, it's dead," I replied. "Take the .22," he insisted. I walked the 250 yards to the 'hog's hole and found it flat on its back, gut-shot. It was NOT a pretty sight, and the 'hog was, for all intents and purposes, dead. But the 'hog, not knowing this, greeted me with a rather menacing gnashing of inch-and-a-half long teeth. (Yeah, they're that long!) A quick shot to the 'hog's head resolved the situation....

Example 2: Not long afterward, I was poised with a .22 on top of a fencepost, with the idea of ridding my father of a particularly pesky 'hog. It was early in the morning, and the 'hog was totally unsuspecting. I caught him at a range of about 70 yards, standing upright and munching on my dad's soybeans. Taking careful aim, I squeezed off a shot. The 'hog dropped to the ground, and came galloping (at least as 'hogs can gallop) up the bean-row straight at me. To make a long story short, I dropped the hammer four more times, the last time when the 'hog was disappearing amongst the briers that fortified his home in the fencerow along the south edge of the field. After the 'hog vanished, and when it was plain that no others were about to volunteer, I went to see if I had done any damage. After considerable tracking, I found the 'hog, quite dead. I had hit him with all five shots. He had completed the last leg of his run for his hole with two bullet-broken legs, a flesh wound down his port quarter, and a slug-hole in one of his lungs. Only the last bullet -- smack through the side of his head -- had stopped him.

Not long after this episode, I traded Dad's trusty .22 for something with a bit more authority.

Gas don't get it. Glass will NEVER get it. Baiting is a joke, as is persuasion. Not even Barry Manilow will drive them out of their holes, even though Barry would drive me off the planet!

It's just so simple: high-velocity, small-caliber bullets fix everything!

Shoot me some email, Al, and we'll work this out!


------------------
I don't know why fortune smiles on some and lets the rest go free...

T

[TBone2]

Geez, don't you hate it when some incompetent asshole sticks his ranting, raving post on the board TWICE?

Geez, I hate that!


------------------
I don't know why fortune smiles on some and lets the rest go free...

T

OK, I talked to a couple of friends of mine and got one more suggestion. I have never tried this and just offer it as something a desperate person might try.
I was you should get an iron bar about 4 feet long or so and bend it so that you have a 3 foot shaft and a one foot handle, and you should solder wires to it so that the neutral is closest to the bend, the hot wire is closest to the short end. Then, after a rain or thorough watering, you should stick the long end of the bar into the ground and then plug the wire into standard household current. Supposedly, this sends a current through the wet earth that ground hogs find uncomfortable and they will vacate. It also will cause earthworms to come to the surface, so if you are a fisherman you can collect them. I would wear insulated boots though. Actually I wouldn't do this on a bet, but if you are desperate it might be worth a try.

The device you describe will blow every fuse and/or trip every circuit breaker feeding the outlet you plug it into.
You cannot put the hot and the neutral leads on the same iron bar ANYPLACE! That is known as a dead short, and most electricity type things don't react well to it.
Now if you wanna electrazap the liddle darlins without tripping breakers, use two rods placed at LEAST 5 ft apart. There will be enough resistance through the soil to prevent 15 or 20 amps of current flow, and your breaker won't trip.
I wouldn't recommend standing on or touching the soil between or around the rods, though. You may be driven off along with your groundhogs. In fact, this whole scheme is decidedly more dangerous for the humans using it than for the groundhogs it is being used upon. :(
Based upon this observation, the whole idea should be scrapped.



------------------
FixedBack

"Misers get up early in the morning; and burglars, I am informed, get up the night before."~~G.K.Chesterton

[Scylla]

Fixedback:


ZZZZZAAAAAPPPPP!!!!!


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!


Now you tell me.

[TBone2]

I must admit that I tried the electrocution route once, but not with regard to groundhogs... they're much too large and too smart! My aim was to fry smaller rodents -- mice!

I started with the following materials: a piece of 1/2" plywood, approximately one-foot square, a piece of aluminum "flashing," about the same size, a few screws and nails, and a standard lamp cord ("zip" cord), bare wires on one end and a standard 110V plug on the other. Oh, yeah, also I had an old raggedy bath-towel.

I used tin-snips to cut the aluminum to two shapes: a hollow square of about 1-1/2" depth and a solid square with about 8 1/4" sides. I arranged the two pieces of aluminum and attached them to the plywood square concentrically, roughly so:

Where "P" = plywood and "a" = aluminum....

PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
P aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa P
P aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa P
P aaaa aaaa P
P aaaa aaaaaa aaaa P
P aaaa aaaaaa aaaa P
P aaaa aaaaaa aaaa P
P aaaa aaaaaa aaaa P
P aaaa aaaa P
P aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa P
P aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa P
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

(I'm just hoping my diagram gets posted in roughly the same design I had in mind.....)

At any rate, once I'd made the basic structure, I attached one of the "zip" cord leads to the outer hollow square of aluminum, and the other lead to the inner square of aluminum. I plugged the "business" end of the cord into the nearest wall outlet. I dampened the old towel and rolled it up and used it to surround the plywood square.

For bait, I used Cheez Whiz, peanut butter, bacon, and/or whatever came to hand, placed in small amounts at the center of the middle square of aluminum. Any rodent intent on stealing the bait would have to tread across the damp towel, thereby moistening its feet, then walk across the outer hollow square of aluminum (ground), then step across to the inner square of aluminum (hot), thereby comepleting a rather crude but SPECTACULARLY effective electrical circuit!

OH, MY! Ain't we got fun!

And, in the end analysis, the dead mice -- there were a great many -- died in a manner much more humane than any conventional trap would provide. In terms of a "size -jolt ratio," the mice had the same benefit that might be derived by an electric-chair victim who is inadvertently struck and killed by lightning. Same result, LOTS more voltage, amperage, etc.

This whole story reminds me.... Does anyone remember those hot-dog cookers that simply electrocuted the dogs, using house current? I remember one my ex and I had in the seventies that did exactly that.... the dogs were the connection between the ground and hot sides of a common household circuit. I remember that the dogs were tasty, and that we could thoroughly cook half a dozen in 30 seconds....


------------------
I don't know why fortune smiles on some and lets the rest go free...

T

[TBone2]

Well, forget the concept of even ROUGHLY trying to represent anything using ASCII characters on THIS board!

It was a small square inside a bigger, hollow square, OK? Email me, I'll send you a picture that CAN'T be cobbled up.



------------------
I don't know why fortune smiles on some and lets the rest go free...

T

[Scylla]

Tbone2

Would that work on a Groundhog, outside, in his hole.

It might take a lot of extension cord.

What if it rains?

If you put a cage around it so little kids can't kill themselves, you migh make a lot of money with something like that.

Do you have a picture of one in action that can be posted?

------------------
Often wrong.... NEVER in doubt

At any rate, once I'd made the basic structure, I attached one of the "zip" cord leads to the outer hollow square of aluminum, and the other lead to the inner square of aluminum. I plugged the "business" end of the cord into the nearest wall outlet. I dampened the old towel and rolled it up and used it to surround the plywood square.

For bait, I used Cheez Whiz, peanut butter, bacon, and/or whatever came to hand, placed in small amounts at the center of the middle square of aluminum. Any rodent intent on stealing the bait would have to tread across the damp towel, thereby moistening its feet, then walk across the outer hollow square of aluminum (ground), then step across to the inner square of aluminum (hot), thereby comepleting a rather crude but SPECTACULARLY effective electrical circuit!

OH, MY! Ain't we got fun!

And, in the end analysis, the dead mice -- there were a great many -- died in a manner much more humane than any conventional trap would provide. In terms of a "size -jolt ratio," the mice had the same benefit that might be derived by an electric-chair victim who is inadvertently struck and killed by lightning. Same result, LOTS more voltage, amperage, etc.

You want "electric chair" type results? Make the mousetrap with plastic tubing and for electrodes use machine screws in opposite sides of the pipe. For the power supply, I used the "stinger" out of a retired bug light.
The mice would crawl up the tubing to the top of a bucket, where the tube would angle down into the bucket and the electrodes would be at that point.
Mouse runs up the tube after smelling some delicious peanut butter. Mouse hits electrodes and fries. Mouse falls out of downward sloping tube into bucket. Wait for next "pore liddle mouse".
The thing worked great till the neighbors cat stuck his paw into the wrong end of the tube. Killed cat, incinerated paw. Caused a terrible stink(from cat AND neighbors)!


------------------
FixedBack

"Misers get up early in the morning; and burglars, I am informed, get up the night before."~~G.K.Chesterton

[Jackamus]

This is the funniest serious thing I've ever read, altho sunbear's onion stories run a close second.

Do you think you might take a second look at using dogs to help with this problem? I know yours are now considered sissies, but I bet they would really like a chance to redeem themselves. Maybe if they had a couple extra compadres to help them, they could do it.

We have some acreage also, but we have 6 dogs. By crackie, they will nail anything that moves out there. They are all mixed breed rescued strays, nothing alarming in there like pit bulls or such, and wouldn't harm a human other than the occasional knock-em-down-and-lick-their-face stuff, but they are hell on wheels when it comes to other animals on their turf.

They will spend hours digging out any kind of burrowing animals, and the teamwork they display in dispatching said animals is truly amazing. We don't encourage it, as we don't farm our land, but they seem to just do it naturally.

Anyway, it is just a thought, and something that wouldn't be environmentally harmful. If nothing else, they might make the nazis' lives so miserable that they would move to your neighbors' fields. The only problem I could foresee would be the possibility of them bothering the horses and I don't know what the likelihood of that would be.

See any merit in this idea?

[TBone2]

OK, about dogs....

My dad had dogs. My dad had 'hogs. The 'hogs tore the dogs new buttholes on a pretty regular basis. Admittedly the dogs' only stab at anything resembling teamwork occurred mainly at dinnertime....

My cousin had a dog that actually WAS effective against 'hogs, but this pooch was smarter than your average, uh, dog....

Bruno was a BIG German shepherd with a nasty temper and a mind (and mouth!) like a steel trap. As I mentioned in an earlier post, Bruno did his magic in "stealth mode."

A little background....

Around here, groundhogs generally construct their burrows with two entrances -- one is the "main" hole, and the other is sort of an "emergency escape" hole, seldom used. The main hole has a definite orientation, that is to say that it faces a particular direction, and the 'hog will emerge facing the same way 99 times out of 100. Typically, the main hole is backed by some structure that affords the 'hog a sense of safety from behind: a tree, bush, building, fencerow, etc.

Bruno had the unerring ability to "read" a groundhog's hole and determine which way the 'hog would be facing when he came up for fresh air. In his patented "stealth mode," Bruno would position himself "behind" the hole, looking down, and stand utterly stock still and silent, waiting. Sooner or later, the 'hog would poke his head out -- looking the wrong way -- and Bruno would reach down, clamp his jaws around the 'hog's head, snatch him out of the hole, and calmly walk away with the frantically struggling but helpless marmot dangling in a most undignified manner from his mouth. I never followed Bruno and prey to see the inevitable conclusion, but I bet it wasn't pretty.

In general, though, most dogs are pretty useless against 'hogs, particularly in a one-on-one confrontation. For one thing, the 'hog has the most to lose, knows it, and fights accordingly. For another, an adult 'hog's incisors, though designed for laying waste to vegetation, are easily large enough and powerful enough to REMOVE a dog's foot.

As for my six-pack mousetrap, I dunno. It'd take a BIG one to work on hogs and, as someone pointed out, a mighty long extension cord. My preference is still lead, administered in small doses at high velocity. ;)

------------------
I don't know why fortune smiles on some and lets the rest go free...

T

[chocolate]

OMG I am cracking up here! I shouldn't laugh because I realize these groundhog/gophers are terrorizing your field and tormenting you day in and day out. While I have much bigger problems like coyotes, mountain lions, wolves and grizzly bears tormenting me (they are eating all my cats!) I can certainly empathize with your war against the rodents!

I've read all these suggestions, and while some of them are quite interesting and very ingenious, I think the best thing for you would be to purchase the...


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[Shayna]

This thread has been absolutely hilarious, and I just couldn't let it die without asking - Scylla, have you tried any of the above suggestions yet? Has anything worked? Any more funny stories to relate regarding your recent efforts?

------------------
"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." - Anne Frank

[casdave]

Suggestion--

Is there such a thing a contraceptives for groundhogs.

Guess this is bound to raise a few eyebrows ,but seriously folks ,food laced with contraceptive agents is used for other species very effectively.

It is used for foxes but they are scavengers and are not fussy what they eat ,it has been done with badgers too.

I don't know if the use of pheromones would be effective but ,hey ,you might be able to save on half your ammo!

[funneefarmer]

Well we'll see what the folks over at Contraception Advisory Group Discussion Forum (http://www.worldzoo.org/cag/Default.htm) where I started a thread entitled "Marmota monax (woodchuck) contraception feasability".

It looks like there is a slow response time over there so don't expect to see any replies for at least a day or two. It also looks like they deal with a more exotic species cliental.

[Jorge]

1. Live-trap a groundhog.
2. Set up recording device.
3. Find former Salvadoran Army manual.
4. Torture hog.
5. Record sounds.
6. Replay at loud volume through small speakers strategically placed around colony.
7. Hunt stragglers.

[e999]

Hey, you're the man to help
so here's some help for ya.
&lt;ol&gt;&lt;li&gt;
Have you tried &lt;i&gt;electrocution&lt;/i&gt;?
My thought is, if they chew on
roots, well, put some wires in
that look like roots. Just
make sure you use a fuse-box.
&lt;li&gt;
Another idea: &lt;b&gt;sound&lt;/b&gt;. All mammals
have sounds they like and
dislike. Dogs for instance
hate a certain high-pitch
sound that humans don't hear.
Do the gophers dislike
a sound of a given frequency? Do some
research.
If they do, and if it's inaudible
then just play it 24 hours.
Whenever they come up for air
they'd jump back under again.
Over time, in theory, they might
just go away.
&lt;/ol&gt;
Hope this helps!

[Guy S. Tanzer]

Now, I'm just a city boy from Long Island here so be patient with me, I'm not a farmer by trade or descent. A freind of mine and I discussed a similar problem, that of killing fire ants which are just as useless and evil as groundhogs. We considered flooding the nests with liquid nitrogen. We also considered using liquid oxygen and throwing a match (or setting it off via electric).

I agree gasoline was probably not a great idea, back there at the beginning of the thread, but would a slower-burning liquid work? Suppose one mixed 20% gas, 80% kerosene? Setting fire to all the holes at the same time ought to cut off escape and burn up all the O2 underground. I don't know groundhog digging habits, but you might even be able to pressure-spray the mixture up the holes, or use an irrigation hose to get the mixture further into the nests...

[right said fred]

This is true story and not a drug induced memory from a viewing of "Caddy Shack."

About fifteen years back I was a caddy at a private club. We had our share of ground grizzlies on the course, and they would spend their evenings sunning in the fairways. One morning I nearly stepped on a recently deceased critter, and a closer inspection showed a Titleist embedded in its skull.

It may be a rather inefficient manner to rid such a plague, but it was obviously effective.

------------------
I watched my head rolling on the floor. It landed face up and a big tear came out of one eye. --Shirley MacLaine

[tracer]

Nazi groundhogs aren't really evil, there more sorta chaotic-neutral.

Except for the undead variety, of course.

[Happy Dave]

Douglips may be a genius. Has anybody else heard anything about this mythical Hog-sucker?[/B][/QUOTE]


yeah, its true. TDC or TLC had something about it recently. the guy sucks the varmints out of their holes and apparently exports most of them to asia where they are sold as pets, if you can believe
such a thing.


------------------
HaVe a GreaTFuL DaY......

[dvmarshall]

Ok this is how we do it in Kentucky: get a high powered rifle (I use a 30-30) and just blow the SOB's head off. I've killed many a groundhog this way. Usually they'll leave their hole to go and get some food, this where you make your move. Wait until they're around thirty feet from their hole; forget about stealth, just aim and squeeze off a round or two. Hope this helps.

[Osip]

Oh my Ground Grizzlys.

One question. What are your neibours growing as compared to you? It may well be they are growing something less savory to "lil dirt bastards than you are.They may be doing this knowing you have created a F***ing furball shangri-la and helped their vermin relocate to you lands.

From my own personal experience you have only two real choices.
1) Exaust fumes.
Cover the holes, drop the hose in, crank the vehicle(s) go fishing.
2)Invite all your friend here to come camping for a weekend. Supply beer, food a few tents and lots of Ammo.
Option 1 will work, after a few applications.
Option 2 might not work but I promise it will be a weekend you will remember.



------------------
Oh your from Wales?? Do you know a fella named Jonah?? He used to live in whales for a while.

[Strider]

Hey, I guess no one noticed but it has been about 3 months since this thread's OP. Do we have a verdict on what method worked the best, or is there still an infestation?? (sp?) I am truly curious to see what the results are of this little experiment. It has also been a blast to read.

-N

[foolsguinea]

Well, you won't like this, Scylla (Scylla? Scylla's a guy?)--but maybe you can't win this one. It may be beyond your power or authority to eliminate your groundhog population.

But you just need to adjust your worldview to accept that that's OK.

Ever see Twilight of the Cockroaches? The following assertion is made in that movie: From the cockroaches' point of view, the human race was created to provide a series of trials, the overcoming of which would strengthen the cockroach race.

What can we learn from this? If you just revise your point of view to one closer to the groundhogs' own, you may come to understand that to them, you are something like a mythical dragon of old. You are a large monster with terrible guns who hunts them, and the woodchucks who survive and endure in the face of this are the heroes of their marmot race. Songs in the woodchuck language will be composed about their courage, and if one of these four-legged Beowulfs manages to kill a dog, or even a man, he will be exalted to a place of high honor in their legends--the Woodchuck Eddas, presumably. It is a noble thing, the woodchuck's fight, even if it is against you, alsmith.

(Moment of Silence)

Then again, being considered the woodchuck equivalent of Grendel doesn't necessarily cheer a man up. But hey! That's only if one manages to get into your house and kill you. You'll be like one of those other monsters, that the mythic heroes didn't kill. Let's see, there were a couple: Charybdis and ...?

[Fungus Khan]

Well, it's gotta be a hell of a topic when people are registering just to reply.

Serious suggestions:

Have you considered poisoning food with antifreeze? It supposedly tastes just like kool-aid, at least enough to fool several cats, dogs, and small children a year. Maybe it'll be good enough to fool your 'hogs.

Also, there are several kinds of mole trap that work by impaling the mole when it disturbs the trigger. Maybe you could use the same basic idea, placed at the entrance of the warren?

Not-so-serious:

Use several air compressors to blow out the warrens. Practice your skeet-shooting as the little bastids come flying out.

Poison smoke and water didn't work? Why not try some nitrous oxide? It'd make the little gigglers easier to shoot, anyway.

During the winter, when they hibernate, buy a large, large, *large* amount of Ping-Pong balls. Use a leafblower to blow them all in there. Hopefully, when they wake up, it'll be too packed for them to dig and they'll starve.

For better or worse, them's my suggestions,

P.S.: foolsguinea-- Scylla isn't the monster. Scylla is the rock. On his good days, anyway.

[Omniscient]

How is it I'm just coming across this utopia of hilarity? Quite possibly the funniest thread I've read, up there with Cecils "piss shiver" and "circus peanuts" columns. alsmith/Scylla, I can't put into words how highly I regard you at the moment, you are now on my list of posters who's comments must always be read.

Anyways, I think the solution has been presented. I have the method of implimenting it.

Entitled: Doperfest PA - Ground Grizzly Genocide
Post thread inviting all dopers to spend a weekend night at your abode.
Select warm Summer evening for the event.
Dopers arrive em masse
Supplies: 2 puckup trucks, beer, ice, grill, comfortable chair, junk food
In front 3/4 of truck one's bed line with plasic and partition off, fill with copious amounts of beer and liquor and ice.
Place cooler full of food, grill, hose, and ammo in the remaining 1/4 of bed.
In second truck bed, load with eager Dopers armed with rifles and cameras and comfortable chairs.
Drive out to field and set up camp, begin drinking and shooting nazi ground hogs.
One group of individuals sweep the field plugging all GH holes, scaring them to the target main hole.
When sun sets, or ammo is exhausted plug any other holes except 2 opposite holes
Build large bon-fire near hole #1
Place hoses over two trucks exhausts and seal around hole #2
Start trucks, turn up radio.
Assemble dopers around bonfire.
Dance, drink, and debauch
Camp out
Wake up, vomit, start drinking
Hike back to house and get gas for trucks
Wake passed out Dopers and load into trucks for drive home.
Develop film, post on internet and make millions for the patented GH exterminating service

Whatya think? I'm in!

[Elmer]

Once I was hunting a wabbit, and I couldn't catch the wabbit, so I dwessed up as a pwitty pwitty wady wabbit,and the wabbit became awoused, and I caught the wabbit, and I put him in a wittle pit in my basement, and after awhile I skinned him, and sometimes, wate at night, I dwess up wike a pwitty wady wabbit, and I wook at myself in the miwwow, and I'm a pwitty pwitty wabbit.

You should dwess wike a gwoundhog. A pwitty gwoundhog.

[kaylasdad99]

Scylla:

Congratulations on being selected as a Threadspotting feature.

How is the vermin situation panning out three months after the fact?

An early comment, something to the effect that groundhogs only move for soybeans and sex, gave me the notion of the sacrificial anode approach. Briefly, if you attach a more easily corroded metal (say, zinc) in electrical contact with a metal that you want to protect (say, the steel superstructure of a submarine's main ballast tank) from a corrosive medium (say, seawater), the more easily corroded metal will be sacrificed to galvanic corrosion instead of the metal you want to protect. I'm not sure how applicable this would be to your situation, but selecting a few plots on your property to be planted in soybeans MIGHT have the effect of drawing the beasts away from areas that you are hoping for a little profit from.

[Rick]

I vote for the exhaust idea. The lungs on people (and other warm blooded creatures) have a much higher liking for CO than they do O2. AS I recall less than 1% CO will kill a human, so it stands to reason that this concentration will also kill a ground Nazi.
A couple of suggestions here. first use a gas engine, no diesel (more CO produced) Remember it's the CO not the smoke or smell that kills, CO is colorless and odorless.
Use a car or tractor that does NOT have a cat converter. (no reason to lower the CO content) if possible set the carb to run slightly rich (more CO!) Plug as many of the holes a possible and push the exhaust down one that is left and let her rip. If it is possible to get more than one car several exhaust pipes at different area would seem to improve you chances. I would let the cars run for a couple of hours.
Good luck
Rick

[Guy Propski]

Hey alsmith/scylla--I think you've received quite a useful list of suggestions. Now what we need is some closure. Can you test some of these methods and let us know what works? We're all dying to know! And you will be providing a great service in the fight to eliminate ignorance (not to mention groundhogs).

BTW, after reading your description of yourself and your surroundings--is the nearest town to you named Hooterville?

[Scylla]

I'm thrilled with all the replies! Thanks.

I feel so validated.

I've implemented some of the less violent ideas last weekend, and am planning on an Easter weekend massacre with some of the more workable suggestions. I will certainly post results, and possibly pictures. Heh Heh.

[skolix]

I get rid of our woodchucks with a "have a heart" trap (possibly spelled havahart) baited with peanut butter. I used to turn the trapped rodents loose on some nearby state land until I learned that it is illegal to transport a wild animal and cruel to the woodchucks as they will come into conflict with the current residents. Now I just shoot them in the trap. Once I kill a couple dozen of them it takes a year or two for the population to build back up. Reguarding poison, an article in the Northern Nut Growers Association newsletter once recommended a mixture of peanut butter and plaster of paris for squirrels but I never got around to trying it.

[ZenBeam]

Scylla, this isn't just about the Evil Nazi Groundhogs anymore: it's much bigger than that. It's about your neighbors, and your standing among them. It's about the pride of all city folk and former city folk everywhere.

Your neighbors are already talking about you. If you fail in this task, the locals will laugh behind your back, and perhaps in front of your back. The cause of city folk will be set back decades.

But if you win... It will be a victory for all mankind. They will tell of your tale for generations, when ever a person asks "did anyone ever defeat these groundhogs?" They will reply "Well, one fella came close. Went by the name of [Scylla]. Seven feet tall he was, with arms like tree trunks. His eyes were like steel, cold, hard. Had a shock of hair, red like the fires of Hell..."

The whole world is watching, Scylla. You must not fail.

------------------
It is too clear, and so it is hard to see.

[JAB]

Here's the diagram of the electric mouse trap from earlier in the thread, fixed so as to display properly.

Originally posted by TBone2:
I must admit that I tried the electrocution route once, but not with regard to groundhogs... they're much too large and too smart! My aim was to fry smaller rodents -- mice!

I started with the following materials: a piece of 1/2" plywood, approximately one-foot square, a piece of aluminum "flashing," about the same size, a few screws and nails, and a standard lamp cord ("zip" cord), bare wires on one end and a standard 110V plug on the other. Oh, yeah, also I had an old raggedy bath-towel.

I used tin-snips to cut the aluminum to two shapes: a hollow square of about 1-1/2" depth and a solid square with about 8 1/4" sides. I arranged the two pieces of aluminum and attached them to the plywood square concentrically, roughly so:

Where "P" = plywood and "a" = aluminum....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">code:</font><HR><pre>
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
P aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa P
P aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa P
P aaaa aaaa P
P aaaa aaaaaa aaaa P
P aaaa aaaaaa aaaa P
P aaaa aaaaaa aaaa P
P aaaa aaaaaa aaaa P
P aaaa aaaa P
P aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa P
P aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa P
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
[/code]
(I'm just hoping my diagram gets posted in roughly the same design I had in mind.....)

At any rate, once I'd made the basic structure, I attached one of the "zip" cord leads to the outer hollow square of aluminum, and the other lead to the inner square of aluminum. I plugged the "business" end of the cord into the nearest wall outlet. I dampened the old towel and rolled it up and used it to surround the plywood square.

For bait, I used Cheez Whiz, peanut butter, bacon, and/or whatever came to hand, placed in small amounts at the center of the middle square of aluminum. Any rodent intent on stealing the bait would have to tread across the damp towel, thereby moistening its feet, then walk across the outer hollow square of aluminum (ground), then step across to the inner square of aluminum (hot), thereby comepleting a rather crude but SPECTACULARLY effective electrical circuit!

OH, MY! Ain't we got fun!

And, in the end analysis, the dead mice -- there were a great many -- died in a manner much more humane than any conventional trap would provide. In terms of a "size -jolt ratio," the mice had the same benefit that might be derived by an electric-chair victim who is inadvertently struck and killed by lightning. Same result, LOTS more voltage, amperage, etc.

This whole story reminds me.... Does anyone remember those hot-dog cookers that simply electrocuted the dogs, using house current? I remember one my ex and I had in the seventies that did exactly that.... the dogs were the connection between the ground and hot sides of a common household circuit. I remember that the dogs were tasty, and that we could thoroughly cook half a dozen in 30 seconds....

[ZenBeam]

Credit for an extra ten posts to the first person to identify the quote in my last post.

------------------
It is too clear, and so it is hard to see.

[kjsheehan]

ZenBeam: That'd be the General Sherman episode, no?

Scylla: I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Vlad Tetris idea. Growing up in rural Indiana, I can remember the folks up the street hanging dead 'hogs on all their fences. Even if it doesn't drive away the 'hogs, the drunk hunters might be a bit more disinclined from arguing with you.

Alternate solution, also drawn from Transylvania: To rid a town of a vampire infestation, "You have to kill the *head* vampire." Maybe your problem is that you haven't yet been able to kill the *head* groundhog? Not sure how to identify the head groundhog, but I'll give it some thought today.

[Philologus]

I am a new poster here, so be gentle.
I would just like to point out one fact that seems to have slipped past most everyone's attention. That is the fact that gophers and groundhogs/woodchucks are two entirely different animals. Gophers are tiny, cute little critters, about mole sized, while groundhogs are the great, loathsome, lumbering creatures that destroy on a grand scale. I myself had a bad experience with a groundhog and a watermelon patch as a teenager, and after trying to shoot it, burn it out, etc., my Dad, brother and I just gave up. But good luck with your struggle against the marmots, anyway.

[ZenBeam]

ZenBeam: That'd be the General Sherman episode, no?

Yes. Nickrz, Manhattan, pay the man. :)

------------------
It is too clear, and so it is hard to see.

[Spoke]

Dammit, Scylla, you don't send a wolf hound in to do a badger hound's job! What you need are dachshunds, and lots of them!!!

From the AKC page on dachshunds:
The Dachshund was developed in Germany
more than 300 years ago to hunt badgers.

Any dog that can take out a badger can damn sure handle an overgrown chipmunk, sez I.

So here's what you do: Get a regiment of weiner dogs, send a platoon down each hole. Presto, no more groundhog problem! Wolf hounds are no good, see. They can't go down the holes. You've gotta hit these critters where they live!

We had a dachsund when I was a kid. That litttle bastard was utterly fearless. He would stand by the food dish and dare any of our several bigger dogs to take him on. None were up to the challenge.

One caveat. Since these are Nazi groundhogs, and the dachshund is a German breed, you might have to run a few background checks on your troops. Wouldn't do to have a turncoat in the ranks you know.

Oh, yeah. You say you lived in New York City? And now you've moved out into the country to do some farming? Keep Manhattan, just give you that countryside? Tell Eb I said hello.

[Cervaise]

Hey, since everybody else has posted ideas that range from practical to outlandish to truly warped, I figure I deserve a crack with a notion that qualifies as all three.

Allow me to present: The Rodent Oubliette.

1. Dig a pit maybe five feet across and twenty feet deep. Line it with bricks and concrete.

2. Seal the pit's opening so wandering children don't fall in. Leave the center open.

3. Make a chain-link or wire "tunnel" of sorts, shaped like a cross, four entrances, centered on the hole in the middle of the pit lid. The tunnel should be big enough for your 'hogs, but not big enough for children, dogs, etc.

4. Over the center hole, install a spring-loaded hinged trap door made of thick plexiglas or other slick surface.

5. From the ceiling in the center of the cross, directly above the trap door, hang a head of lettuce or succulent alfalfa or whatever the critters can't resist.

6. Wait.

In theory, the 'hogs will mosey over at the scent, go into one of the chutes, arrive at the center to reach the bait, and drop through the trap door. They'll get trapped in the mortared pit, and will expire.

Optional customization: Install a plexiglas window and flashlight hole to one side of the lid, so you can look down and keep track of how many critters you've bagged. If you want to go high-tech, put in a closed-circuit camera.

Drawbacks:
- May require experimentation as to the ideal bait/attractant.
- A fair amount of work to construct.
- You'll catch squirrels, cats, and other assorted wildlife.
- And finally, if it works as intended, after a while, the smell will be pretty nasty. You'd probably have to remove the lid, seal the half-filled pit with concrete, and set up another trap.

Advantages:
- After it's built, next to zero maintenance is required; you'll need only to freshen the bait periodically.
- Won't screw up your crops (liquid nitrogen), cut your feet (broken beer bottles), or pollute the atmosphere (running a combustion engine for two days solid).

And the #1 Advantage: Nothing will ever compare to the majesty of the Great Groundhog Pit-Wrestling Event. Print posters and tickets, and you'll be able to retire before we find out whether Teak Boy or the Dimwit Druggie is our next Fearless Leader.

------------------
Movie Geek Central -- Reviews, news, analysis, and more! http://moviegeek.homestead.com

[PAB]

I must say, this is a very amusing thread.

One thing I read, and I admit it sounds fairly disgusting, but that doesn't seem to be an issue here, is to take one of the groudhogs that you shot, burning the corpse, and sprinkling the ashes in every hole youe find on your propoerty. The smell of burnt flesh does not only disgust humans, but has the same effect on "varmints" and they leave the area.

The sugestions of a city dweller (this was a method for rats).

[Lizard]

Dear alsmith,

Having grown up in the country and met more than my share of city slickers, I found your problem amusing, even as I recognized its seriousness. The first thing people from NYC find out when moving to the country is that Bambi and Thumper don't really exist. Having said that, let me address your problem.
First: the final solution. Let your fields lay fallow for several years, and burn off the vegetation. Literally. Wait until a dry spell has set in and set the grass on fire, under VERY controlled conditions of course. Make sure only a small area (like 1/4 acre) is burning at a time, and have plenty of people with SuperSoakers or water buckets standing around. 90 acres could probably be done in a week, if you put in long days. This will remove the groundhogs' food supply, and make living on your land untenable for them.
If you can't do this, (which I realize is probably the case) you are left with an imperfect mix of temporary solutions. Besides shooting them yourself and inviting local hunters to shoot them around the clock (paying local kids $5 a carcass is a good idea), you should get dogs that are especially good at killing groundhogs. Size is not the answer. When I was growing up in rural Ohio, we NEVER had a problem with these critters, and our dog was a mutt named Sam that weighed about 40 pounds. (On a side note: Sam met her demise under the wheel of a pickup truck, and within 6 months we had groundhogs EVERYWHERE.) She just knew how to fight. I personally witnessed her kill a half-dozen groundhogs, a raccoon, several rats, even some mourning doves that were a little too overtaken with grief to realize she was getting too close. Believe it or not, smaller, QUICK, agressive dogs are much, much better at killing groundhogs than big ones. Bigger dogs are actually at a disadvantage. Admittedly, it sounds like the 'hogs you're dealing with are unusually large and aggressive. This comes from being well fed. You might want to think about training pairs of dogs to work together. This minimizes the risk to each dog and virtually insures the 'hog is a goner.

Good luck

------------------
DTL

[ZenBeam]

Cervaise's comment that "since everybody else has posted ideas that range from practical to outlandish to truly warped" got me to thinking. Perhaps when you make that bonfire to smoke them out, make it out of marijuana. Stoned groundhogs with the munchies ought to be easy targets, especially if you leave some nice food laying around outside their holes. And when the first gunshots are heard, they won't immediately scramble back into their holes. &lt;POW!&gt; "Whoa, what was that noise? &lt;POW!&gt; Oh, hey, peace man. Got any juicyfruit?"

------------------
It is too clear, and so it is hard to see.

[funneefarmer]

Originally posted by ZenBeam:
Perhaps when you make that bonfire to smoke them out, make it out of marijuana.

Why not just plant the stuff and let them eat the marijuana ? Ummm, you might be able to sell the excess. The groundhogs will keep the cops, and their dogs, from confiscating the evidence. Of course if they're eating the marijuana that might lower their fighting intensity. You might want to start breeding a more aggresive woodchuck. I suppose you could interplant some alfalfa instead but that would take valuable space from the marijuana plants. It's tough being a farmer nowadays.

[SamSam]

I couldn't get through the entire post, entertaining as it was, so I don't know if this has been suggested but here goes.

Have you tried coyote (or other predator) urine? I know that they are starting to use that here in Washington (State) to scare away pests. I can see how this might not work on Groundhogs especially considering the size of the infestation and the critters, but I thought it might be a good idea.

I know you are thinking: "where can I get coyote urine?" I haven't the faintest idea. It's possible that you might be able to buy some from pest control type people, however I have no idea if this is true or if there is even a way to obtain it besides finding a coyote and waiting for it to pee.

I also don't know if it works on groundhogs. I leave the research to other people with more time on their hands.

[Rysdad]

Originally posted by spoke-:
[B]Dammit, Scylla, you don't send a wolf hound in to do a badger hound's job! What you need are dachshunds, and lots of them!!!B]

Who knows? Those little weinermutts might work.

All I know is I grew up with a dog that was a German shepherd/Norwegian elkhound cross that had absolutely no fear of any living thing. This same dog damn near killed a 300 lb boar pig before the farmer and I dragged him off the screaming porker.

It took a woodchuck to teach him a lesson. Colonel (my dog) was chawed from end to end. He did manage to kill the 'chuck, but he left them alone after that. This is the same dog that managed to eviscerate a porcupine! (and got to visit the vet to have about a hundred quills removed from his face)

I'm really curious to see how your groundhog extermination exercise goes this weekend.



------------------
This is getting hard. Somebody relieve me. (A Wallian exclamation)

[sheerah]

Scylla,
Read the entire thread. Very amusing. Look my boyfriend the probation officer said he would gladly loan you the use of 90 or so of his current felon clients. If you do choose the doper route, e-mail me and we'll truck them up to you for the great gopher be gone of 2000. He also wishes me to relay that if several are mortally wounded during the massacre, he will not hold you accountable but will send you a gracious thank you note for thinning out his case load.
Good luck with your weekend mission. As a neighbor in WV, we're relying on you to keep the ground grizzlies up north instead of sending them our way.
Once again, good luck and God speed.

[christophercampbell]

In the Pacific Northwest we have a similar creature called a mountain beaver. It looks a lot like a groundhog, is about the same size, has similar habits, but it is rather more stupid and not nearly as vicious. They are very destructive and their holes are dangerous. Unlike groundhogs, mountain beavers can climb trees. (No one knows why they are called mountain beavers: they don't look anything like a beaver, and they don't live in the mountains. Go figure. I know of one encyclopedia that refers to the animal as a sewellel, but only an effete intellectual snob would use a word like that.)

Anyway, a typical mountain beaver tunnel system can reach more than 30 feet in depth and cover an area several hundred yards across. These creatures frequently dig new exits. They also collect round rocks, colloquially known as "mountain beaver baseballs" to plug up unused or dangerous sections of their tunnels. Any mountain beaver will have a large collection of these rocks on hand for emergencies. If you try to gas them, they will seal off the tunnel where the gas is coming in. I suspect groundhogs would do the same, since they have to be smarter than mountain beavers.

I finally eradicated mountain beavers from my property entirely. I got about a half dozen leaf blowers, the kind that exhaust out the blower nozzle. I also got several smoke bombs. I sealed off no holes, since I figured that any self-respecting mountain beaver could make a new hole in seconds anyway. Instead, I stuck a leaf blower in one hole. I watched for exhaust gas exiting any other hole and threw a smoke bomb in there or another leaf blower. I kept this up for several hours. Once all the initial holes were plugged with noxious fumes, I waited. As soon as smoke began appearing in a new spot, I went over there. If a mountain beaver made an appearance, I killed it on the spot and plugged the hole. After I got six mountain beavers this way, I waited a few more hours before turning off the leaf blowers.

I didn't see another mountain beaver for years.

Flooding them out might work, especially if you dropped M-80 firecrackers in the flooded holes. Water carries a shock wave quite well. But closing off the other holes will simply trap air spaces in the tunnel network, giving the occupants a place to escape to.

I tried using ferrets to chase the mountain beavers out, but the ferrets all mysteriously disappeared. The mountain beavers were not at all intimidated by predator urine.

Mountain beavers especially seem to love blueberry bushes. They will bite the bush off at its base with their inch-long teeth and carry the whole bush back to their tunnel. The whole effect is of watching a blueberry bush wander across the yard and then plant itself in a mountain beaver hole as the stupid animal tries to drag the whole bush inside. Did I say they were not very bright? The whole thing would be very comical if it didn't take a minimum of five years to get a decent sized blueberry bush. At least they won't eat rhododendrons or azaleas; these must be poisonous to mountain beavers.

[argyle87]

Al, it looks to me like the only course of action that will yield true results would be selling your farm to Cargill or some other faceless corporate giant, milking the suckers for all they're worth, and moving as far away from the farm as you possibly can!

------------------
"A witty phrase proves nothing." -Voltaire

[THespos]

Groundhogs? Though a city slicker, I did live in a Civil War-era farmhouse for a year while in college. We rented the house from a farmer who encouraged us to shoot the little bastards. He told me he messed up his tractor pretty badly after one of the front wheels ran over a woodchuck hole.

I have experienced the .22's lack of effectiveness against these little beasties. Unless you score a head shot, they scamper off and live to terrorize you at a later date. Woodchucks aren't invincible, though. 12-gauges work nicely. Use slugs. The last one I shot had its head neatly taken off. Sure, it's tough to control the population by killing them one at a time, but you can't do much better unless you can somehow gain access to military hardware (claymores?).

How about a soil aerator? Maybe a few laps around the alfalfa field would skewer enough of them to make a difference.

[JAB]

Oh well - I included the UBB tags to preserve formatting, but they seem to be getting ignored.

[Skott]

Just wanted to mention ahead of time that this has been a hilarious as well as informative thread. Using my imagination, though, I have a few ideas to share:

1. Don't try to drown the rascals. Instead, fill up their maze of tunnels with water and add piranhas down the tube. The major problem with this idea is keeping the tunnels filled with water long enough to keep all the fish alive… but if it did work, you could just let them die. I think fish are pretty good fertilizer.

2. According to this page (http://www.hoghaven.com/gfaq.htm), groundhogs will eat pizza, but it's not good for them. I don't know if that means heartburn or a deadly allergic reaction to cheese.

BTW, I love the quote from that page: "If more people would simply get to know us, they would recognize what wonderful and gentle creatures we are!" and "In digging our burrows, we improve the soil (by allowing more air and water to get underground, this helps break down the soil to form more valuable topsoil), and our abandoned dens provide homes for other animals including foxes and skunks. The latter two animals aid farmers by catching and eating millions of injurious small rodents and insects that are harmful to farm crops. So you see, we actually help the farmers!"

Riiiiight… (pinky lip kiss).

3. This page (http://www.wctech.com/hbt.htm) goes into detail about the various dangers to groundhogs. Apparently one of the greatest killers is hibernating too long. So, if you could somehow convince them it's still winter (stuffing lots of ice down their holes?), maybe the wouldn't make it.

4. Killing the young should be a priority, in my opinion. Groundhogs don't live that long, so shooting them only means your doing the job that mother nature would end up doing anyway. Since the young are so small, the idea of snakes, especially non-poisons ones (garter?), might not be a bad idea. They wouldn't have to be too big and could probably eat several without having to wait too long for digestion.

I have more ideas, but I think that's all I'll cover right now. :)

Scott

[Jpmjr_98]

Ah to kill Groundhogs. Nasty varmits.
I found the most effective method is to trap them with a have a hart trap. They love iceberg lettuce.
Bait the trap, let them consume and then have a hart. Take them out back and shoot them in the head with your 22.

This may sound brutal, but I can assure you, the 22 dispatches them quite quickly.
I usually dig a hole prior to the execution of the sentence. Seems like the groundhogs never get used this and keep on coming into the trap. While you never win the war, you can nicely manage the problem. Eventually, if you can get the pregnant females you can definitely make a dent in the populations.

As for gassing them, a neighbor grew up on a farm in Canada. A garden tractor doesn't do it. You need a big truck or other car sized vehicle. Put the hose in and let it run for an hour or so.

[edwino]

OK, this is not slightly non-apropos, but related, I spose.

From the "US Army Survival Manual FM 21-76"
(reprint of the Army Field Manual)

Page 7-26 (Using Wildlife for Food)

-Groundhogs/woodchucks/marmots -- Place a doubled-wire snare (figure 7-23) at the animal's hole so that you can sanre it entering or leaving its hole. Or, you can dig the animal out of its hole and hit it with a club or a rock. In digging out, when you get close to the animal, you can sometimes insert a belt with buckle or loop, which the animal will bite and hold onto. You can then pull it out. If you find the animal in the open, run it down; when it turns to fight, club or drop-kick it.

Gotta love the Army.

"US Army Survival Manual." Dorset Press, 1994.

[tremarcambren]

I know this may sound like a huge joke, but I mean this will all of the seriousness I can muster. Have you ever thought of closing the Alfalfa Farm and starting a Gopher Farm? You could sell their fur for money. Also, Justin, TX is between where I work and where I live, I'd be happy to drop some of their hide off for you, so those people could take a look. I bet it would make a really nice lace-up roper.

Then again, you would have those animal rights freaks knawing at you, which would be worse than the bite your pup sustained. They bear many similarities to Gophers (or whatever you want to call them, I'll refer to them as "Gophers.")
1. They hang around and cause problems. 2. You can try to gas'em, but they will always survive. In fact, I've seen some of them on television fighting and kicking while the gas is being applied. At lease Gophers are smart enough to lay low during "gas application."
3. I hear that it may take something a little stronger than a .22 to take them out, too. And finally...

4. I hear they both taste like Chicken.

In all seriousness, I think this is the best solution at this point. You could market your story, which seems to make things popular these days. Further, I have wasted valuable sales time reading all of the suggestions, Juicy Fruit?....c'mon....it would lose its flavor before it could become lodged and the gopher would be hunting for a napkin or tissue to spit it out in.

There is no way that you are going to beat these "SOB's". The term "cut bait" comes to mind. You are going to have to take drastic measures and they do not include an Alfalfa Crop. I will be more than happy to forgo my Alfalfa consumption for a year to someone who can actually stand the crap! Give it up...sell the fur!

[Mark Stevens]

Did you try contacting the manufacturer of the poisenous smoke bombs? They might like the challenge and could use your plight as a case study/marketing campaign.

[VaHermit]

My daughter, who is an unbearable vegetarian and animal lover (hope you're not reading this, sweetheart) adopted an orphaned woodchuck last year. He stayed with us for about four months until he took up residence under the house and began to incorporate phone wires into his diet, at which point we were forced to turn him loose (in a pasture, near a creek, and early enough in the year to assure him time to find a new apartment before winter). Actually, he was a lovable little critter and I wish him well.
Two things come to mind that may help you, one is Milk-Duds, he went crazy over them. As bait, I can't think of anything better (Friskies dog food runs a close second). The second thing I will always remember is how horny the little bugger was, his leg-humping would put any dog to shame, the harder you smacked him away, the more agressively he came back. He also had a tendency to chew your leg as he made love to it (he never drew blood but he nibbled hard enough to get kicked across the room a few times).
So I'm thinking... maybe if you hire a few school kids to walk through your fields with their pant-legs rolled up and a box of milk duds in one hand and a ball-bat in the other you might just end this once and for all, please...don't thank me, I live to serve.

[Spoke]

christophercampbell wrote:
Unlike groundhogs, mountain beavers can climb trees.

What makes you think groundhogs can't climb? We found one up a tree in our back yard one morning when I was a kid. He looked like it had been a rough night, and we assumed he was chased up the tree by a dog or other predator. (He was shaking, and looked really tired.) After resting in the tree for most of the morning, he eventually climbed down and wandered off.

[FrankGrimes]

I would build them some condos -- set up a huge mound of dirt with one-way glass windows so you can see in. Of course they wouldn't all move in, but the ones that did would be easily observed. That way you could study them, learn their weaknesses. You have to keep the enemy close.

Of course I don't know how they would react to one-way mirrors but it would be fun to try.

[Gazoo]

Going back a couple pages on this long, very entertaining thread, I believe I have the KEY to the problem. It was stated that the property may be on some sort of Groundhog Mecca, I got to thinking. "If you build it, he will come."
Instead of ridding the land of the little sh**s, entice them to come. Hell, your neighbors will be grateful. Then, when you have a few thousand or so, set up some bleachers, maybe a snackbar, and sell T-shirts!
"People will come, people will most definitely come!"

[mrblue92]

Seeing as these are Nazi groundhogs and you currently stand alone in defiance of this horrible menace, history tells us you must isolate yourself (like England) until you can convince your Allies to come to your aid. So:

1. Dig a moat around any of your territory that has not yet succumb to the evil groundhogs. Snipe at any interlopers who try an amphibious assault.

2. Make appeals to your larger, richer neighbors for funds and armaments, lest they be overcome as well. Of course, you will not be able stem the tide, and the groundhogs will foolishly run rampant over your neighbors' land to the East. Pigeons in league with the groundhogs will attack your neighbors in the West, and they will be forced into the conflict as well.

3. Your neighbors finally declare war on the Nazi's. The large neighbor to the East will grind out a massive ground offensive, and occasionally stop to wipe out a few of their own family members suspected of aiding the Nazi's. Meanwhile, your neighbor from the West will colloborate with you on an amphibious landing across your moat.

4. Assign Patton a tank division and watch the little suckers go squish under the treads. Then go nuke the pigeons, and it's Miller time!

[Scylla]

It is the eve of battle. Rather than respond individually to the mass of much appreciated suggestions on an individual basis. Let me tell you exactly where I stand, and what I plan.

I appreciate all the time and effort that has been addressed in the recent replies, however I feel that in case I should fall in battle this weekend, it is important that the knowledge I have be shared so that another may come to avenge me.

I guess the best place to begin is with my wife's phone call to me last week.

"The horse are being attacked by a Bobcat! Help!"

Well, I rushed home and of course there was no Bobcat in evidence. "Bobcat's are extinct in PA you know, are you sure that's what you saw?" I asked in my best condescending manner.

My wife described a weird catlike creature, tall and lanky with little or no fur, and tufts on it's legs. It entered the horse field chased the three horses who were terrified, and then exited into the woods.

"Yeah right, probably a wild poodle, or the neighbors housecat." (It's important to note that my wife, though highly intelligent, has an active imagination. She thinks Gone With THe Wind is a true story, and cries when she watches the Lifetime movie network) Anyway, I dismissed her sighting.

Last Saturday while mowing the grass, I observed a Bobcat enter the horse field and chase the horses who ran in terror. "Holy Crap!" I ran to the house grabbed my binoculars and again observed what appeared to be a Bobcat chasing the horses through the field.

I again ran to the house got my bullbarrel .223 with bipod, 18x scope and a bunch of ammo, and set off to ambush the creature. It had by then exited the horse field and set to aimlessly fidgetting by the edge of the woods.

As the expert marksman that I am, I carefully loaded my weapon set up the bipod and sighted on the hideous creature. I missed. The bullet landed behind the "Bobcat," who noting the impact ran in the opposite direction (towards me.) I fired again, and missed. Again. Miss.

By now the "Bobcat" had adjusted his trajectory and ran tangentially towards me about 30 yards off. Again, I shot. Hit. Center mass. It ran in a circle three times or so and took off over a hill.

One of my dogs, by the name of Bear caught wind of this activity and took off after the creature.

As I cleared the hill I could hear Bear yiping. I saw the vicious creature hissing and chasing my dog, who was now fleeing in panic. The creature had a hole the size of a softball in its gut but didn't seem to care as it chased my dog.

Suddenly it dove into a groundhog hole.

I finally got a good look at it as it peered at me malevolently over the edge.

It was a bald fox (probably fascist and most definitely evil.) Maybe it was sick, or maybe it had rabies, I don't know. I shot it in the head, poured gas and oil over it and buried it with the skid loader.

I take this as an ominous sign. I am not comforted by the fact that it sought refuge in a groundhog hole. Perhaps it is in league with the marmots? Is some kind of Axis being formed? Was it's horrible condition and ferocity testament to evil experiments by perverted groundhog scientists who had captured and tortured it earlier?

I fear the worst.

I checked the gum I set out in January (couldn't find it,) and set out more Wrigleys last Sunday in some of the holes that showed evidence of habitation. This gum was untouched. I found every piece (still tasty though. :) )

I must conclude that the Wrigleys defense upon which I had pinned so many hopes is nothing more than a fraudulent myth.

Here is my plan:

Tomorrow I set out small cups of antifreeze near populated holes.

I will then Take my 1948 SuperA international harvester (lots of exhaust)now equipped with some spare spouting cleverly engineered over the exhaust and attempt a serious fumigation at another choice location. I will stand by, not with my .223, but with my 12 gauge (loaded with slugs to splatter the beasties,) and a sidearm in order to pick off any potential escapees.

I also intend to visit Agway or the local Hardware store in the hope of procuring an extra large Hava heart trap (they didn't have one at Lowes.) If I am successful, I will bait it with Lettuce and milk duds, and see what transpires.

Saturday, I will park my pickup truck on top of the hill, bring a good book and my .223 and attempt to snipe as many of the bastards as I can before they overpower me.

I will give the corpses to bear in the hopes that he will develop a taste for fresh groundhog.

If I am at all successful, I will repeat this process the following weekend in the hopes of damaging the population before they breed and scatter.

If I feel particularly curageous and bloodthirsty I plan on mixing gasoline, oil, and laundry detergent, pouring it down their holes through a hose so it goes deep and setting it off with a lit roll of toilet paper thrown from a distance.

I thought about inviting all the dopers over for a get together/slaughter. Upon reflection, I decided that the fact that we can rarely have a civilized discussion in MIPSIMs without tearing each others throats out does not bode well for an armed and alcohol spawned get-together.

With my luck, only the trolls would show up all claiming to be Andros or DavidB or something until they got their hands on a gun and a beer.

So, that's my plan. I will of course take pictures, and report back should I survive.

Again, thanks so much for the funny and excellent suggestions. I'm sorry I can't reply individually, but there's been so many recently.

Wish me luck.

------------------
"Don't just stand there in Uffish thought!"
-The Caterpillar

[Scylla]

It was earlier suggested that groundhog pelts migh have some value. Their skin is pale, their hair very sparse and coarse. Not exactly what the latest Cosmo girl will be wishing for for Christmas.

Yes, I am a rock on my good days (nice catch on the reference fungus.) I hope tomorrow is one of them.

[Sledman]

Wow… how about…


Biological warfare.

What you need is a specially designed virus that attacks only groundhogs. Somewhere in the vast wasteland of government research this information must exist.

Realistically though I think shooting them is your best option. Now to get past the whole problem with them being alert to the danger associated with the crack of your rifle I would suggest working in pairs. Now your partner is of your own choosing. Remember a high powered rifle will allow you to sit some distance from the varmints.(Atop a grassy knoll…) Your partner could be a young lady to help you while away the time between shots with her feminine charms(Not to young though…otherwise Mark Chmura will start showing up and you’ll have a whole new set of problems). Anyway… another choice for a partner might be a buddy who like sports. You could rig up the game on a Saturday or Sunday, set up lawn chairs, a grill, the rifles and a spotting scope. Working in pairs also affords you the option of going for doubles where you both nail one of the little buggers. Ready 1, 2, 3 BANG!


Either way it’s a win/win situation. Nazi Groundhogs die and you get laid or Nazi Groundhogs die and you catch the game and have a good meal. I can think of worse things to do on a Saturday.

I would think that you would be able to find some neighbors and such from the area that just enjoy sharpening their shooting skills on some groundhogs. They get ready for deer season and you get rid of a nuisance. Personally the $5 tag seems high to me. I would think you could find some kid that would do it for $2 each. Hell, if you were closer I would do it for free.

Anything to keep the world safe for democracy!!

[ExTank]

I'm out of ideas. When all else fails, go with the flow.

If you casn't beat 'em, join 'em.

Become a Ground Hog Farmer. I'm sure the FDA will approve of the process of cutting beef with Ground Hog meat; just pay them enough money.

Or set yourself up as a "Processed Protien Substance" exporter, and ship their little carcasses of to third-world countries.

The only other solution that I can think of is to have your property declared as a Live-Fire Artillery Impact Area, and let your local National Guard Artillery units have at it.

Probably upset your neighbors, and not be very gentle to your land (not to mention your house, should they shoot "out of the box").

ExTank

[funneefarmer]

Originally posted by ExTank:

Become a Ground Hog Farmer. I'm sure the FDA will approve of the process of cutting beef with Ground Hog meat; just pay them enough money.




"We put the M (Marmot) in SPAM"
"We don't make the mystery meat, we make the mystery meat cheaper"
"Pork Bellies ?! Nah, the money is in Chuck Bellies."

[lachesis]

an entertaining thread, most assuredly, but also a serious problem.

my family also had the problem of groundhogs in a horse pasture (granted, on a much smaller scale--we only had a bit over 5.5 acres), but since we had a new foal in the herd, it certainly was cause for anxiety. fortunately, we also were blessed with a very protective collie. after futile attempts at plugging holes, she evidently understood that the varmints Were Not Welcome, and took action. apparently she'd post herself by one of the holes every chance she got (for a mostly indoors dog). over the summer she picked off the juveniles one by one, then proudly laid out Momma (or maybe Dad--i admit my knowledge of groundhog anatomy wasn't extensive) on our driveway for our admiration and praise. we were suitably impressed. and she was one of the gentlest dogs i've had the priviledge to ever know. {DAMN that Saint Bernard that killed her.}

Submitted For Your Consideration....

------------------
next one who says "Fates a bitch" gets whacked with my measuring stick.

[Far2Paranoid]

Gotta say this is the funniest thing I've read in a long time. But, Growing up on a farm in Upstate NY, I gotta say this. Paying the local kids $5/carcass definately works. Me and 7 friends took out about 300 of the damn thigns couple a summers ago. The weapon of choice, a 16 gauge shotgun with some nice slugs. Very little kick and one-shot-one-kill.

[Shadenwawa]

"I just wanted to say 'Good luck'. We're all counting on you."

[carnivorousplant]

Play "Ride of the Valkyries" as you begin the combat. Gives great moral courage.
Sure you can sell the meat. They have "ground chuck" next to the hamburger meat at Krogers.

[Scylla]

Rain and lightning all day today.


Tomorrow they die.

[JoltSucker]

I know you already have your plan laid out (looking at the weather map, you may have to wait another day), but instead of exhaust, I wonder if you could use Mustard Gas? Sure, you may have to clear it with the ATF and local law enforcement, and finding a supplier might be a problem, but it was sure deadly in the trenches of WWI.

[Skott]

Wow... I would take the fact that a bobcat is making itself at home in the caverns of groundhogs as a good sign. From what I understand, they would only do that if it was abandoned.

[Sterra]

figure out the frequency of some part of the groundhogs... then shatter them with the sound.

[CWN]

Hello, I am new here so please forgive if I err. How about claiming that the "hogs" are refugees from Cuba and your trying to grant them asylum and with any luck Janet Reno will send a squad of INS agents and wisk em away! You will be rid of the headache and the hogs will end up somewhere in DC- happy ending for all concerned- just a thought from this mornings news

[cornflakes]

Good luck! You might want to take a hint from what happened on Iwo Jima and Okinawa in WWII. Sure, you'll quiet some of the holes, but they'll just run through their tunnels and return fire on your flank or rear, or lob artillery from the opposite side of the hill. Have plenty of flamethrowers and satchel charges on hand, and expect heavy losses.

Seriously, I'm glad you're not using a diesel to gag them out; you wouldn't get enough CO with one.

[Scylla]

Rain again, Damn.

How do I find their frequency?

[TBone2]

Thanks, JAB, for showing the diagram of my electric mouse-fryer properly. How DID you do it?

Of course, back in those days, I inhaled...

------------------
I don't know why fortune smiles on some and lets the rest go free...

T

[sheerah]

Scylla, not sure if this would count as biological warfare, but here's my two cents.
There's a particularly nasty stomach virus going around right now in my part of the country. I know from personal experience (i.e. the last 48 hours!!!) that it is life-altering in that sufferers submit prayers to the Superior Being of being cured or dying just to alleviate the pain.
I would suggest you grab a couple of people afflicted with this latest bug and set them near the groundhog burrows. Through the least amount of contact (I guess it's airborn for I haven't had any closer contact with others afflicted with this terrible torment), you may be able to infect the whole legion. Trust me, for I know of what I write, the little buggars will be committing suicide just to get some relief. However, before they finally croak, their immediate vicinity may be quite messy or contaminated. Wear hip boots and a mask. Hope it goes well. Let us know.

[prince2003]

btw, bobcats are not extinct in PA, in fact they're talking about opening a limited hunting season on them again. it's being rather hotly debated right now, at least in my county anyway. has nothing at all to do with groundhogs but i wanted to set the record straight as a proud native.

[mrblue92]

I happened to mention your plight to my dad as we were driving by a vulture taking care of a roadkill groundhog... He said that he once saw on TV where they put propane (which is heavier than air) down their holes and lit them up. I neglected to ask how they ignited the propane without endangering themselves...

He also mentioned someone dumping turpentine (or some other flammable liquid) down a groundhog hole and lighting it, only to have the flaming hog run out and light the nearby wheatfield on fire.

[Whammo]

Thought this might be of interest!! Its from SNOPES... lets just call it... how NOT to kill a groundhog!

The Unkillable Gopher


Claim: In the process of attempting to get rid of a gopher, a trio of school custodians blew up their shack. Though all three janitors were carried out on stretchers, the gopher returned to the wild unscathed.
Status: True.

Origins: Just when you think every fantastic story is fabricated, you run into one like this.

On 3 April 1995, someone (probably one of the kids) brought a very much alive and healthy gopher to the janitor and two maintenance men at Carroll Fowler Elementary School in Ceres, California. The three guys decided to kill the gopher and took it into a small room where janitorial supplies are stored. They tried to off the critter by spraying it with a cleaning solvent used to remove gum from floors. (The solvent works by freezing the gum, thereby making it easy to scrape up.) Three cans were used on the condemned, but to no avail. The product didn't seem to faze the gopher one bit.

It is speculated that one of the men then attempted to light a cigarette in this tiny enclosed space. This is plausible because smoking on school grounds is forbidden -- this supply room is where any of the maintenance people would go to sneak a puff. As well, the janitor -- the one most badly injured -- was a smoker; his being at the centre of the blast and his neck wounds are consistent with this hypothesis.

As any sensible person would expect, there was one hell of an explosion, and all three men were injured. Sixteen kids were also hurt (mostly scraped knees and solvent inhalation -- nothing all that serious). The explosion took place at 8:10 in the morning, and classes at that school start at 8:25 -- given the number of kids milling around at that time, it's a wonder more of them weren't hurt.

In the aftermath of the explosion, the sprayed-down gopher was discovered unharmed and clinging to a wall. He was released back into the wild.

Of the three men, one was released from hospital that day, one was sent home a couple of days later, and the janitor (Carl) spent some time in the Burn Center in Stockton.

Barbara "obviously these guys had never seen Caddyshack" Mikkelson

Last updated: 30 July 1999


...And I am NOT making this up LOL. http://www.snopes.com/critters/cruelty/gopher.htm

[Sledman]

The damn Canadians are holding out on us.

The following info is from the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture Food and Rural Affairs http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/crops/facts/98-023.htm#groundhogs

Control
Winter is a poor time for groundhog control, as these pests hibernate in a sealed off chamber in the burrow.

The following are commonly used methods of control: Phostoxin, a fumigant, contains aluminum phosphide. In the presence of moisture, phosphide gas (phosphine) is released, which is claimed to be effective against groundhogs. When handling Phostoxin, a full face mask repirator with an acid gas canister should be worn and the use of cotton gloves is recommended. A second person with personal protective equipment should be assisting during the fumigation. Always consult the product label. This product is manufactured in tablet form. Rate of application is one tablet per hole. All entrances must be sealed to prevent the gas from escaping.
A Grower Pesticide Safety Certificate is required before Phostoxin can be purchased by a farmer. The policy with this pesticide also requires the user to take instruction on using the product before it can be purchased. (A Factsheet, Aluminum Phosphide for Groundhog Control, is available from the Ontario Ministry of Environment.)

Gas Cartridges are cardboard cylinders containing a mixture that burns slowly and asphyxiates the groundhog. The cartridge is placed in the burrow of the groundhog and all entrances must be sealed. Follow manufacturer’s instructions on the preparation and use of cartridges.

Trapping can be effective for groundhog control, however, it is time-consuming. The use of No. 2 steel traps (muskrat traps) are most practical. Traps should be checked at least twice a day and should be cleaned after each catch.

Shooting can be an excellent means of keeping groundhogs under control. However, it must be done regularly from spring to fall.

The Phostoxin sounds just nasty enough to work. You’ll have to check with your state regulatory agency about requirements because it is restricted use in the USA too. Maybe check with the county extension guys again. They might be a little more helpful if they find out you are going to begin conducting chemical warfare.


Information on obtaining Phostoxin can be found at the following site.

1999 Fumigation Service & Supply Catalog http://www.surf-ici.com/insectslimited,inc/FSScatol.htm

"You know, by god, I actually pity those poor bastards we're goin' up against. By god, I do. We're not just gonna shoot the bastard, we're going to cut out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy Hun bastards by the bushel....The Nazis are the enemy. Wade into them, spill their blood, shoot them in the belly."
George C. Scott from the movie PATTON

Good luck Scylla...We want you on that wall! We need you on that wall!!

[funneefarmer]

Just to toss another idea on the barbeque...
I was digging post holes while building fence and realized that there was a slight possibility of me penetrating a burrow with the hop bar (metal bar with one end molded to the shape of a pointed bulb). Now this would be a truly inefficient way of killing the woodchuck. Reminded me though that there are air power nailers and gunpowder charged nailers for cement use. Now with some slight upward alterations to either type you could have a nailer that would penetrate several feet into the soil and thus into the woodchuck while still in it's burrow. This would require the use of the aforementioned underground listening equipment or perhaps some high tech radar or heat detecting equipment. With a high speed, high power nailer and detecting equipment it seems you could have a killing machine that wouldn't require the hit or miss effectiveness of gas and wouldn't require the woodchucks to come out of the burrows.

Of course the neighbors might be confused watching you nailing the grass to the ground. If they ask tell 'em you were worried someone was going to steal the crops, so you're nailing it down.

[Scylla]

I killed 7 today.

Using Tbones advanced Groundhog sniping techniques (they run into the hole wait 20 seconds then pop their nose up. During the wait you sight in, and when they pop up... Blam!)

The antifreeze has been siting out for a week. there is still signs of activity at those holes, so who knows if it's doing anything?

The drainspout/hose contraption attacjed to the exhaust of my 1948 SuperA Farmall International Harvester contraption, actually scared 3 grooundhogs out of a single hole! THey came one at a time so I was able to shoot all 3. The exhaust on the tractor is foul, and it needs lead supplement added to the gas.

TOmorrow I will try to duplicate this on another hole to see if it wasn't a fluke.

[Grendel69]

Scylla/Al,
You are from New York. There is a certain someone in New York who could help you. He might have a lotta of free time on his hands real soon. He has the experience. No, not Bobby Valentine...The Big Man himself, the heir to Benito, Rudy Guliani. It would be one of the more inhuman stategies, but ya' gadda do what ya' gadda do.

PS Liquid Nitrogen shouldn't do much to the ground.

[Scylla]

Got 3 yesterday.

[Scylla]

Got 3 yesterday.

[mrblue92]

Don't let the groundhogs get in the red zone; I hear they have one heck of a field goal kicker.

[ellis555]

I hope the score never swings in the favor of the groundhogs.

-ellis

ps.
are you doing the Vlad the Impaler bit with their caracasses?

[funneefarmer]

"The Contraception Advisory Group works with captive/zoo animals and not free-ranging wildlife, so we aren't as well-versed in what might be best in those situations. I believe that Jay Kirkpatrick from Zoo Montana in Billings may have worked with woodchucks..."

His e-mail address is posted to the original reply over at the Contraception Advisory Group website.

[wolfman]

Okay I tried to read all the posts but I started to skim towards the end.

Anyway I have 2 suggestions inspired by this thread.

Is there a rodent-ologist out there who can give a quick summary of all of the vermin in question. Cause I kind of got lost exactly what was being talked about by some posters. What we always called groundhogs(alias prarie dogs, ground squirrels and gophers) are obviously not the fascists in question here.

Second, I would give serious consideration to the dog solution. Where I grew up there were a few old ranchers, who would rent out their dogs for badger hunting, so I'd assume there are dogs around trained to kill what ever is in your area, just look for the redneck-est bar around, full of grizzled old guys, and ask.

[BigJoe]

This thread was the best laugh I've had for a while.

The decreased body count in the second engagement seems like a good sign, but be careful. If these are NAZI groundhogs, they may be trying to fix your attention forward and hit your flank. That was a favorite of Rommel's.

[BigJoe]

This thread was the best laugh I've had for a while.

The decreased body count in the second engagement seems like a good sign, but be careful. If these are NAZI groundhogs, they may be trying to fix your attention forward and hit your flank. That was a favorite of Rommel's.

[Survivalkid]

Try cold rolled castor beans. The Castor plant is poisonous to moles and gophers. This has been the most entertaining thread that I've read in quite some time. Nazi ground hogs... too much

[Scylla]

In-laws were in town this weekend. Unable to hunt and kill (not even Groundhogs.)


I must redouble my efforts this weekend before they give birth and "scatter"

THe specific breed of Groundhog here (for he who asked earlier) is the the common North American Groundhog, Marmota Monax

[chique]

All right, 'fess up......who's been using some of the, um, more idiotic suggestions here?

http://www.startribune.com/stOnLine/cgi-bin/article?thisSlug=BURN16&date=16-May-2000&word=wurdeman&word=mark

(ooooh, hope that link works)

And, Scylla........you're in PA, right?

[chique]

All right, 'fess up......who's been taking some of the more...um...idiotic suggestions seriously?

http://www.startribune.com/stOnLine/cgi-bin/article?thisSlug=BURN16&date=16-May-2000&word=wurdeman&word=mark

(hope that link works)

And Scylla.......you're in PA, right?

[Scylla]

Yes, PA. I didn't take any recent trips either.

That propane thing is sounding better.

[abel]

Okay, so maybe I should be working on a history paper right now, but I just wanted to wish you luck with your gopher/groundhog/whistle pig fiasco. Our family owns a dachshund, and the breed definitely has spunk. However, I seriously doubt if it could take out some of the creatures you've described. It might be fun to watch, though. Hmm, maybe I could mail him to you in one of those packing cylinders... ? Nah.

My only advice would be to just stick to your guns... literally. It sounds like you're doing pretty well with them, and you don't want to spoil a good thing. Once again, good luck, and nail one of the little devils for me.

P.S. btw great thread, I read the whole thing and just about died laughing at some of the suggestions. thanks

[HappyGrad]

This has to be the SINGLE funniest thing I have ever read in my entire life. I wouldn't even know where to start in telling you how hard I was laughing.

How about starting a riot? Confuse them in some way. A confused animal is the saddest sight in the entire universe. Once they're confused, they'll turn on each other, and kill themselves. I wouldn't know how a dark creature would end up confused (maybe some kind of sensory hindrance?) and they'll tear each other to bits. Maybe a scent they don't like (not predator scent). It seems that the only thing that can hurt a species is its own kind.

I can't really guarantee that cause the only problem we have in the country/city border is tiny voles, which are swiftly taken care of by the neighbor's tabby. Bless that cat.

[ellis555]

Ol' Marmota monax has not been overlooked by the scientific community. Turns out that there are a number of little bugs that like to prey upon Nazis.

First, a general overview.

Kwiecinski, Gary G. Marmota monax. Mammalian Species ; Dec. 4 1998; v.0, no.591, p.1-8.
Caire, William; Sloan, Chris L. The woodchuck, Marmota monax (Rodentia: Sciuridae), in central Oklahoma. Proceedings of the Oklahoma Academy of Science; 1996; v.76, no.0, p.95.

A little germ warfare.

Brent E. Korba, Paul Cote, William Hornbuckle, Bud C. Tennant, and John L. Gerin. Treatment of Chronic Woodchuck Hepatitis Virus Infection in the Eastern Woodchuck (Marmota monax) With Nucleoside Analogues Is Predictive of Therapy for Chronic Hepatitis B Virus Infection in Humans. (http://hepatology.aasldjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/31/5/1165?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&titleabstract=marmota+monax&searchid=958862682037_7915&FIRSTINDEX=&search_url=http%3A%2F%2Fhepatology.aasldjournals.org%2Fcgi%2Fsearch&journalcode=hepatology) Hepatology 2000 31: 1165-1175
ZH Jin, GL Zhao, SS Ziong, PY Kou, LL Ma, HT Chen, JY Qi, QJ Ba, and K Mai. An experimental transmission of woodchuck hepatitis virus to young Chinese marmots. (http://hepatology.aasldjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/8/2/371?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&titleabstract=marmota+monax&searchid=958862682037_7915&FIRSTINDEX=&search_url=http%3A%2F%2Fhepatology.aasldjournals.org%2Fcgi%2Fsearch&journalcode=hepatology) Hepatology 1988 8: 371-373.

Some insight into their habits, or, "Know thy enemy, in order that tho might kill them better."

Ferron, Jean. How do woodchucks (Marmota monax) cope with harsh winter conditions? (http://biosis.lanl.gov/cgi-bin/w3vdkhgw?qryDDAy5_QW_;1996-199699052552) Journal of Mammalogy ; 1996; v.77, no.2, p.412-416.
Daniel, Janice C.; Blumstein, Daniel T. A test of the acoustic adaptation hypothesis in four species of marmots. (http://biosis.lanl.gov/cgi-bin/w3vdkhgw?qryDDAy5_QW_;1998-199900099602) Animal Behaviour ; Dec. 1998; v.56, no.6, p.1517-1528.
Bonenfant, Marjolaine; Kramer, Donald L. The influence of distance to burrow on flight initiation distance in the woodchuck, Marmota monax. (http://biosis.lanl.gov/cgi-bin/w3vdkhgw?qryDDAy5_QW_;1996-199699197612) Behavioral Ecology ; 1996; v.7, no.3, p.299-303.

Finally, someone who has done a little Marmota trapping in PA.

Brown, Elizabeth; Ropski, Steven J. A survey of the mammals of the Wattsburg Fen Natural Area and the Titus Bog Preserve. (http://biosis.lanl.gov/cgi-bin/w3vdkhgw?qryFDAnIi0._;1995-199698692018) Journal of the Pennsylvania Academy of Science ; 1995; v.69, no.3, p.111-114.


-ellis

All courtesy of those fine folks at http://biosis.lanl.gov
(I'm not sure if the site is accessible to the public at large, so some of the links might not work).

[Bluesguy]

After spending a day reading through this intriguing/entertaining thread, I couldn't resist registering and putting in my two pennies worth.
The original smoke method is actually oxide of sulphur, I have tried it on Ground hogs in my back yard. It did not work.
Borrowed a .22 and the Garden Nazu never showed up again until I gave the gun back.
Let it do it's business (destroy our vegetable garden) whilst giving it a zing with marbles and a slingshot at every sighting. It became a little sling shot shy.
Finally, Mother Nature took over that Winter, the coldest on record around here with hardly any snow cover and it never showed up again. I imagine it's fertilizing the soil under what used to be my neighbour's shed.
The dogs to use would be a duo of Fox Terriers, they have no fear, are smaller or the same size as the Ground Hog and absolutely merciless on Nazi rats, tomcats and even raccoons.
I used to have a couple way back and you should see them team up on a 3' sewer rat that scared the hell out of me. Not pretty for the rat.

Hopefully you're all done now.

[spodie]

I live in Texas, and we get our fair share of varmints, including 20-pound gophers. The farmers in these parts like to hire the locals to come out and shoot gophers, rabbits, burrowing owls, moles, feral hogs, and just about anything else that is being a nuisance. While you may kill 100 gophers over the course of a day's shooting, on several acres there may be a thousand more, multiplying day-by-day.

While we do enjoy picking off varmints, it does no good for controlling them. We have been contracted to try whatever means possible to get rid of the nuisance population. It seems that feral hogs and large gophers are the worst in this area. Poisoning killed a few hogs, but these creatures are very smart and learn that if one of their kind dies in a particular area, the whole lot of them moves on to other property.

The best short-term solution we came across was flooding. We would wait until after a heavy rain when there would be several feet of water standing in the bar ditch and use a commercial sump pump with a high output and a long, wide hose to fill the burrows with water. With a good pump, this might take a couple of hours. Just keep pumping the water until there's no more.

With the water filling the burrows and no gophers coming out, it's obvious they have high-and-dry pockets in case of flooding. This is where a pneumatic soil packer comes in handy. A pneumatic soil packer is similar to a jack hammer except not so violent and is much heavier with a large steel foot that jumps up and down, compacting the soil and collapsing the gopher's air pockets at the same time. You use this device around areas where you find covered-up holes and tunneling near the surface. As the air pockets collapse, the gophers will retreat to the nearest exit, which should be covered by a couple of cinder blocks. Unable to escape the water, they will drown, pups and all.

We have cleared many fields of big gophers using this technique. Another option, if the field is fallow, go rent the biggest steamroller you can find and roll over the field. This too will collapse the tunnels and air pockets, crushing them in the process. You can rent steamrollers at heavy-equipment rental stores (at least we can here). For any gophers that escape, have a few buddies with deer rifles and/or assault rifles to finish them off.

Recently, after hearing about a "groundhog vacuum" someone designed, we took several vacuum motors from an old abandoned car wash and built an enclosure on the back of a pickup. We mounted 3 vacuum motors to the top of the enclosure and sealed it up tight. We then attached a very large (12" diameter) heavy-duty hose to the pickup, started the motors, put the end of the hose down a gopher tunnel and waited.

After 10-15 minutes, we began hearing the thuds of gophers hitting the inside of the enclosure. It seems when they get caught in the vacuum, they ball up, hoping the menace will pass, but instead end up being sucked into the enclosure where there is no escape. Though these varmints are skiddish and wary, they are also curious, and when they see one of their comrades go flying by, they come out to look and get caught up in the suction themselves. DOH!

The first time we tried this, we captured 78 gophers in the enclosure, all alive, all scared to death. They ranged in size from 1/2-pound pups to a couple of 18-pound monsters (and a couple of tarantulas to boot). What you do with them at this point is up to you. We donned leather chaps, gloves, facemasks, and aprons and just manhandled them into a large dumpster where we incinerated them. Sounds cruel, but if you have a serious gopher problem, nothing is too cruel. Gophers cause millions of dollars worth of crop damage and cause horses and cattle to break their legs with their burrows.

A friend of mine, who thinks money is fun to spend, bought 2 loads of concrete (you know, 2 cement trucks full) and filled in the burrows as best he could with it. He had some BIG gophers - 22-25-pounders - and to this day has no gopher problems. He figured they suffocated in their air pockets, thinking that it was rain and would soon be absorbed. DUH! I suppose it all boils down to how much money you are willing to spend to get rid of the bastards.

Here in Texas, people go to great lengths and expense to do things. I was paid $5000 for the vacuum job, and about $1500 for drowning them on 2 different farms. And we still go out and pick them off with deer rifles on the weekends when there's not anything else better to do. All this may sound funny to you, but like I said, here in Texas, people go to great lengths and expense to do things. Traditional methods of extermination weren't working, so we decided to be creative with our methods and were successful. I hope this information can be helpful to you...

spodie

[spodie]

I live in Texas, and we get our fair share of varmints, including 20-pound gophers. The farmers in these parts like to hire the locals to come out and shoot gophers, rabbits, burrowing owls, moles, feral hogs, and just about anything else that is being a nuisance. While you may kill 100 gophers over the course of a day's shooting, on several acres there may be a thousand more, multiplying day-by-day.

While we do enjoy picking off varmints, it does no good for controlling them. We have been contracted to try whatever means possible to get rid of the nuisance population. It seems that feral hogs and large gophers are the worst in this area. Poisoning killed a few hogs, but these creatures are very smart and learn that if one of their kind dies in a particular area, the whole lot of them moves on to other property.

The best short-term solution we came across was flooding. We would wait until after a heavy rain when there would be several feet of water standing in the bar ditch and use a commercial sump pump with a high output and a long, wide hose to fill the burrows with water. With a good pump, this might take a couple of hours. Just keep pumping the water until there's no more.

With the water filling the burrows and no gophers coming out, it's obvious they have high-and-dry pockets in case of flooding. This is where a pneumatic soil packer comes in handy. A pneumatic soil packer is similar to a jack hammer except not so violent and is much heavier with a large steel foot that jumps up and down, compacting the soil and collapsing the gopher's air pockets at the same time. You use this device around areas where you find covered-up holes and tunneling near the surface. As the air pockets collapse, the gophers will retreat to the nearest exit, which should be covered by a couple of cinder blocks. Unable to escape the water, they will drown, pups and all.

We have cleared many fields of big gophers using this technique. Another option, if the field is fallow, go rent the biggest steamroller you can find and roll over the field. This too will collapse the tunnels and air pockets, crushing them in the process. You can rent steamrollers at heavy-equipment rental stores (at least we can here). For any gophers that escape, have a few buddies with deer rifles and/or assault rifles to finish them off.

Recently, after hearing about a "groundhog vacuum" someone designed, we took several vacuum motors from an old abandoned car wash and built an enclosure on the back of a pickup. We mounted 3 vacuum motors to the top of the enclosure and sealed it up tight. We then attached a very large (12" diameter) heavy-duty hose to the pickup, started the motors, put the end of the hose down a gopher tunnel and waited.

After 10-15 minutes, we began hearing the thuds of gophers hitting the inside of the enclosure. It seems when they get caught in the vacuum, they ball up, hoping the menace will pass, but instead end up being sucked into the enclosure where there is no escape. Though these varmints are skiddish and wary, they are also curious, and when they see one of their comrades go flying by, they come out to look and get caught up in the suction themselves. DOH!

The first time we tried this, we captured 78 gophers in the enclosure, all alive, all scared to death. They ranged in size from 1/2-pound pups to a couple of 18-pound monsters (and a couple of tarantulas to boot). What you do with them at this point is up to you. We donned leather chaps, gloves, facemasks, and aprons and just manhandled them into a large dumpster where we incinerated them. Sounds cruel, but if you have a serious gopher problem, nothing is too cruel. Gophers cause millions of dollars worth of crop damage and cause horses and cattle to break their legs with their burrows.

A friend of mine, who thinks money is fun to spend, bought 2 loads of concrete (you know, 2 cement trucks full) and filled in the burrows as best he could with it. He had some BIG gophers - 22-25-pounders - and to this day has no gopher problems. He figured they suffocated in their air pockets, thinking that it was rain and would soon be absorbed. DUH! I suppose it all boils down to how much money you are willing to spend to get rid of the bastards.

Here in Texas, people go to great lengths and expense to do things. I was paid $5000 for the vacuum job, and about $1500 for drowning them on 2 different farms. And we still go out and pick them off with deer rifles on the weekends when there's not anything else better to do. All this may sound funny to you, but like I said, here in Texas, people go to great lengths and expense to do things. Traditional methods of extermination weren't working, so we decided to be creative with our methods and were successful. I hope this information can be helpful to you...

spodie

[spodie]

I live in Texas, and we get our fair share of varmints, including 20-pound gophers. The farmers in these parts like to hire the locals to come out and shoot gophers, rabbits, burrowing owls, moles, feral hogs, and just about anything else that is being a nuisance. While you may kill 100 gophers over the course of a day's shooting, on several acres there may be a thousand more, multiplying day-by-day.

While we do enjoy picking off varmints, it does no good for controlling them. We have been contracted to try whatever means possible to get rid of the nuisance population. It seems that feral hogs and large gophers are the worst in this area. Poisoning killed a few hogs, but these creatures are very smart and learn that if one of their kind dies in a particular area, the whole lot of them moves on to other property.

The best short-term solution we came across was flooding. We would wait until after a heavy rain when there would be several feet of water standing in the bar ditch and use a commercial sump pump with a high output and a long, wide hose to fill the burrows with water. With a good pump, this might take a couple of hours. Just keep pumping the water until there's no more.

With the water filling the burrows and no gophers coming out, it's obvious they have high-and-dry pockets in case of flooding. This is where a pneumatic soil packer comes in handy. A pneumatic soil packer is similar to a jack hammer except not so violent and is much heavier with a large steel foot that jumps up and down, compacting the soil and collapsing the gopher's air pockets at the same time. You use this device around areas where you find covered-up holes and tunneling near the surface. As the air pockets collapse, the gophers will retreat to the nearest exit, which should be covered by a couple of cinder blocks. Unable to escape the water, they will drown, pups and all.

We have cleared many fields of big gophers using this technique. Another option, if the field is fallow, go rent the biggest steamroller you can find and roll over the field. This too will collapse the tunnels and air pockets, crushing them in the process. You can rent steamrollers at heavy-equipment rental stores (at least we can here). For any gophers that escape, have a few buddies with deer rifles and/or assault rifles to finish them off.

Recently, after hearing about a "groundhog vacuum" someone designed, we took several vacuum motors from an old abandoned car wash and built an enclosure on the back of a pickup. We mounted 3 vacuum motors to the top of the enclosure and sealed it up tight. We then attached a very large (12" diameter) heavy-duty hose to the pickup, started the motors, put the end of the hose down a gopher tunnel and waited.

After 10-15 minutes, we began hearing the thuds of gophers hitting the inside of the enclosure. It seems when they get caught in the vacuum, they ball up, hoping the menace will pass, but instead end up being sucked into the enclosure where there is no escape. Though these varmints are skiddish and wary, they are also curious, and when they see one of their comrades go flying by, they come out to look and get caught up in the suction themselves. DOH!

The first time we tried this, we captured 78 gophers in the enclosure, all alive, all scared to death. They ranged in size from 1/2-pound pups to a couple of 18-pound monsters (and a couple of tarantulas to boot). What you do with them at this point is up to you. We donned leather chaps, gloves, facemasks, and aprons and just manhandled them into a large dumpster where we incinerated them. Sounds cruel, but if you have a serious gopher problem, nothing is too cruel. Gophers cause millions of dollars worth of crop damage and cause horses and cattle to break their legs with their burrows.

A friend of mine, who thinks money is fun to spend, bought 2 loads of concrete (you know, 2 cement trucks full) and filled in the burrows as best he could with it. He had some BIG gophers - 22-25-pounders - and to this day has no gopher problems. He figured they suffocated in their air pockets, thinking that it was rain and would soon be absorbed. DUH! I suppose it all boils down to how much money you are willing to spend to get rid of the bastards.

Here in Texas, people go to great lengths and expense to do things. I was paid $5000 for the vacuum job, and about $1500 for drowning them on 2 different farms. And we still go out and pick them off with deer rifles on the weekends when there's not anything else better to do. All this may sound funny to you, but like I said, here in Texas, people go to great lengths and expense to do things. Traditional methods of extermination weren't working, so we decided to be creative with our methods and were successful. I hope this information can be helpful to you...

spodie

[spodie]

I live in Texas, and we get our fair share of varmints, including 20-pound gophers. The farmers in these parts like to hire the locals to come out and shoot gophers, rabbits, burrowing owls, moles, feral hogs, and just about anything else that is being a nuisance. While you may kill 100 gophers over the course of a day's shooting, on several acres there may be a thousand more, multiplying day-by-day.

While we do enjoy picking off varmints, it does no good for controlling them. We have been contracted to try whatever means possible to get rid of the nuisance population. It seems that feral hogs and large gophers are the worst in this area. Poisoning killed a few hogs, but these creatures are very smart and learn that if one of their kind dies in a particular area, the whole lot of them moves on to other property.

The best short-term solution we came across was flooding. We would wait until after a heavy rain when there would be several feet of water standing in the bar ditch and use a commercial sump pump with a high output and a long, wide hose to fill the burrows with water. With a good pump, this might take a couple of hours. Just keep pumping the water until there's no more.

With the water filling the burrows and no gophers coming out, it's obvious they have high-and-dry pockets in case of flooding. This is where a pneumatic soil packer comes in handy. A pneumatic soil packer is similar to a jack hammer except not so violent and is much heavier with a large steel foot that jumps up and down, compacting the soil and collapsing the gopher's air pockets at the same time. You use this device around areas where you find covered-up holes and tunneling near the surface. As the air pockets collapse, the gophers will retreat to the nearest exit, which should be covered by a couple of cinder blocks. Unable to escape the water, they will drown, pups and all.

We have cleared many fields of big gophers using this technique. Another option, if the field is fallow, go rent the biggest steamroller you can find and roll over the field. This too will collapse the tunnels and air pockets, crushing them in the process. You can rent steamrollers at heavy-equipment rental stores (at least we can here). For any gophers that escape, have a few buddies with deer rifles and/or assault rifles to finish them off.

Recently, after hearing about a "groundhog vacuum" someone designed, we took several vacuum motors from an old abandoned car wash and built an enclosure on the back of a pickup. We mounted 3 vacuum motors to the top of the enclosure and sealed it up tight. We then attached a very large (12" diameter) heavy-duty hose to the pickup, started the motors, put the end of the hose down a gopher tunnel and waited.

After 10-15 minutes, we began hearing the thuds of gophers hitting the inside of the enclosure. It seems when they get caught in the vacuum, they ball up, hoping the menace will pass, but instead end up being sucked into the enclosure where there is no escape. Though these varmints are skiddish and wary, they are also curious, and when they see one of their comrades go flying by, they come out to look and get caught up in the suction themselves. DOH!

The first time we tried this, we captured 78 gophers in the enclosure, all alive, all scared to death. They ranged in size from 1/2-pound pups to a couple of 18-pound monsters (and a couple of tarantulas to boot). What you do with them at this point is up to you. We donned leather chaps, gloves, facemasks, and aprons and just manhandled them into a large dumpster where we incinerated them. Sounds cruel, but if you have a serious gopher problem, nothing is too cruel. Gophers cause millions of dollars worth of crop damage and cause horses and cattle to break their legs with their burrows.

A friend of mine, who thinks money is fun to spend, bought 2 loads of concrete (you know, 2 cement trucks full) and filled in the burrows as best he could with it. He had some BIG gophers - 22-25-pounders - and to this day has no gopher problems. He figured they suffocated in their air pockets, thinking that it was rain and would soon be absorbed. DUH! I suppose it all boils down to how much money you are willing to spend to get rid of the bastards.

Here in Texas, people go to great lengths and expense to do things. I was paid $5000 for the vacuum job, and about $1500 for drowning them on 2 different farms. And we still go out and pick them off with deer rifles on the weekends when there's not anything else better to do. All this may sound funny to you, but like I said, here in Texas, people go to great lengths and expense to do things. Traditional methods of extermination weren't working, so we decided to be creative with our methods and were successful. I hope this information can be helpful to you...

spodie

[spodie]

I live in Texas, and we get our fair share of varmints, including 20-pound gophers. The farmers in these parts like to hire the locals to come out and shoot gophers, rabbits, burrowing owls, moles, feral hogs, and just about anything else that is being a nuisance. While you may kill 100 gophers over the course of a day's shooting, on several acres there may be a thousand more, multiplying day-by-day.

While we do enjoy picking off varmints, it does no good for controlling them. We have been contracted to try whatever means possible to get rid of the nuisance population. It seems that feral hogs and large gophers are the worst in this area. Poisoning killed a few hogs, but these creatures are very smart and learn that if one of their kind dies in a particular area, the whole lot of them moves on to other property.

The best short-term solution we came across was flooding. We would wait until after a heavy rain when there would be several feet of water standing in the bar ditch and use a commercial sump pump with a high output and a long, wide hose to fill the burrows with water. With a good pump, this might take a couple of hours. Just keep pumping the water until there's no more.

With the water filling the burrows and no gophers coming out, it's obvious they have high-and-dry pockets in case of flooding. This is where a pneumatic soil packer comes in handy. A pneumatic soil packer is similar to a jack hammer except not so violent and is much heavier with a large steel foot that jumps up and down, compacting the soil and collapsing the gopher's air pockets at the same time. You use this device around areas where you find covered-up holes and tunneling near the surface. As the air pockets collapse, the gophers will retreat to the nearest exit, which should be covered by a couple of cinder blocks. Unable to escape the water, they will drown, pups and all.

We have cleared many fields of big gophers using this technique. Another option, if the field is fallow, go rent the biggest steamroller you can find and roll over the field. This too will collapse the tunnels and air pockets, crushing them in the process. You can rent steamrollers at heavy-equipment rental stores (at least we can here). For any gophers that escape, have a few buddies with deer rifles and/or assault rifles to finish them off.

Recently, after hearing about a "groundhog vacuum" someone designed, we took several vacuum motors from an old abandoned car wash and built an enclosure on the back of a pickup. We mounted 3 vacuum motors to the top of the enclosure and sealed it up tight. We then attached a very large (12" diameter) heavy-duty hose to the pickup, started the motors, put the end of the hose down a gopher tunnel and waited.

After 10-15 minutes, we began hearing the thuds of gophers hitting the inside of the enclosure. It seems when they get caught in the vacuum, they ball up, hoping the menace will pass, but instead end up being sucked into the enclosure where there is no escape. Though these varmints are skiddish and wary, they are also curious, and when they see one of their comrades go flying by, they come out to look and get caught up in the suction themselves. DOH!

The first time we tried this, we captured 78 gophers in the enclosure, all alive, all scared to death. They ranged in size from 1/2-pound pups to a couple of 18-pound monsters (and a couple of tarantulas to boot). What you do with them at this point is up to you. We donned leather chaps, gloves, facemasks, and aprons and just manhandled them into a large dumpster where we incinerated them. Sounds cruel, but if you have a serious gopher problem, nothing is too cruel. Gophers cause millions of dollars worth of crop damage and cause horses and cattle to break their legs with their burrows.

A friend of mine, who thinks money is fun to spend, bought 2 loads of concrete (you know, 2 cement trucks full) and filled in the burrows as best he could with it. He had some BIG gophers - 22-25-pounders - and to this day has no gopher problems. He figured they suffocated in their air pockets, thinking that it was rain and would soon be absorbed. DUH! I suppose it all boils down to how much money you are willing to spend to get rid of the bastards.

Here in Texas, people go to great lengths and expense to do things. I was paid $5000 for the vacuum job, and about $1500 for drowning them on 2 different farms. And we still go out and pick them off with deer rifles on the weekends when there's not anything else better to do. All this may sound funny to you, but like I said, here in Texas, people go to great lengths and expense to do things. Traditional methods of extermination weren't working, so we decided to be creative with our methods and were successful. I hope this information can be helpful to you...

spodie

[spodie]

I live in Texas, and we get our fair share of varmints, including 20-pound gophers. The farmers in these parts like to hire the locals to come out and shoot gophers, rabbits, burrowing owls, moles, feral hogs, and just about anything else that is being a nuisance. While you may kill 100 gophers over the course of a day's shooting, on several acres there may be a thousand more, multiplying day-by-day.

While we do enjoy picking off varmints, it does no good for controlling them. We have been contracted to try whatever means possible to get rid of the nuisance population. It seems that feral hogs and large gophers are the worst in this area. Poisoning killed a few hogs, but these creatures are very smart and learn that if one of their kind dies in a particular area, the whole lot of them moves on to other property.

The best short-term solution we came across was flooding. We would wait until after a heavy rain when there would be several feet of water standing in the bar ditch and use a commercial sump pump with a high output and a long, wide hose to fill the burrows with water. With a good pump, this might take a couple of hours. Just keep pumping the water until there's no more.

With the water filling the burrows and no gophers coming out, it's obvious they have high-and-dry pockets in case of flooding. This is where a pneumatic soil packer comes in handy. A pneumatic soil packer is similar to a jack hammer except not so violent and is much heavier with a large steel foot that jumps up and down, compacting the soil and collapsing the gopher's air pockets at the same time. You use this device around areas where you find covered-up holes and tunneling near the surface. As the air pockets collapse, the gophers will retreat to the nearest exit, which should be covered by a couple of cinder blocks. Unable to escape the water, they will drown, pups and all.

We have cleared many fields of big gophers using this technique. Another option, if the field is fallow, go rent the biggest steamroller you can find and roll over the field. This too will collapse the tunnels and air pockets, crushing them in the process. You can rent steamrollers at heavy-equipment rental stores (at least we can here). For any gophers that escape, have a few buddies with deer rifles and/or assault rifles to finish them off.

Recently, after hearing about a "groundhog vacuum" someone designed, we took several vacuum motors from an old abandoned car wash and built an enclosure on the back of a pickup. We mounted 3 vacuum motors to the top of the enclosure and sealed it up tight. We then attached a very large (12" diameter) heavy-duty hose to the pickup, started the motors, put the end of the hose down a gopher tunnel and waited.

After 10-15 minutes, we began hearing the thuds of gophers hitting the inside of the enclosure. It seems when they get caught in the vacuum, they ball up, hoping the menace will pass, but instead end up being sucked into the enclosure where there is no escape. Though these varmints are skiddish and wary, they are also curious, and when they see one of their comrades go flying by, they come out to look and get caught up in the suction themselves. DOH!

The first time we tried this, we captured 78 gophers in the enclosure, all alive, all scared to death. They ranged in size from 1/2-pound pups to a couple of 18-pound monsters (and a couple of tarantulas to boot). What you do with them at this point is up to you. We donned leather chaps, gloves, facemasks, and aprons and just manhandled them into a large dumpster where we incinerated them. Sounds cruel, but if you have a serious gopher problem, nothing is too cruel. Gophers cause millions of dollars worth of crop damage and cause horses and cattle to break their legs with their burrows.

A friend of mine, who thinks money is fun to spend, bought 2 loads of concrete (you know, 2 cement trucks full) and filled in the burrows as best he could with it. He had some BIG gophers - 22-25-pounders - and to this day has no gopher problems. He figured they suffocated in their air pockets, thinking that it was rain and would soon be absorbed. DUH! I suppose it all boils down to how much money you are willing to spend to get rid of the bastards.

Here in Texas, people go to great lengths and expense to do things. I was paid $5000 for the vacuum job, and about $1500 for drowning them on 2 different farms. And we still go out and pick them off with deer rifles on the weekends when there's not anything else better to do. All this may sound funny to you, but like I said, here in Texas, people go to great lengths and expense to do things. Traditional methods of extermination weren't working, so we decided to be creative with our methods and were successful. I hope this information can be helpful to you...

spodie

[JBurton99]

Hey there, how goes the Nazi hunting?
I just started reading this the other night at work
and now my boss thinks i've totally lost it from
laughing so darn hard at some of these ideas.

I live in PA also, and happen to know the species
you are hunting. Nasty buggers they can be. Been
chased by a few myself, and can atest to the fact
they walk around with the red arm band with the
swastika on it, and the only really good way to rid
yourself of these book burning crumbs is to take them
out one at a time with your trusty rifle. I can also
atest to the fact that once you shoot, they all
disappear for a while, and have actually wondered
how to cut down on the noise. I recently asked a
Navy Seal friend of mine about silencers, and this
was his idea. It's possible to make a silencer for a
rifle out of a NEW, not used, Car Oil Filter. He says
that you drill a hole in the sealed end of the filter
roughly one inch across, then tap and die the end
of your rifle so the oil filter screws right on.
Since you have a scope on your rifle you don't need
the front sight of the rifle, and viola, instant $4.00
silencer. Although i have not tested this idea, it
does sound like a rather interesting and workable
one, since i no longer own any guns since i became
a father. The only draw back is that you have to
make sure the ammo you are firing is sub-sonic, or
it won't work. My Navy Seal buddy said that it does
work, but then again can you really trust a government
agent?? LOL :D

Happy Hog Hunting. If you need help, fire off an e-mail
to me, it's been a while since i hunted any Nazi Hogs,
and we could hit them with a two pronged attack, and
no beer allowed. Deadly enough out there with out
getting drunk, and having a sneak attack by the Hogs
go down on your watch.

[justwannano]

Conibear traps
The conibear trap a body holding trap also known as a killer trap is what I would use. Set them over the holes and in runs. Although I like to snare furbearers the groundhogs body is too streamlined to use them.
If you just want to have fun shoot them but if you are serious the conibear is the tool for you. Use the #2trap.The #3 is for beaver and is probably illegal to set except under water.They are expensive. The last ones I bought were $7 each. They are probably $10. each now.

I did enjoy reading this thread.

I used to work for the local coop and I've delivered Anhydrous Ammonia. One farmer used it to kill groundhogs from under his barn. Effective but not recommended. I almost hesitate to mention it here because it is dangerous stuff.It can kill you by breathing the vapors or burn you-thats what they call the freezer burn if it comes in contact with your skin.An anhydrous burn is really nasty.

[justwannano]

Make that 220conibear and 330 conibear instead of #2

[Marvel]

I just read this in Yahoo! News and immediately thought of this thread!

Patty


Oddly Enough Headlines
Wednesday June 7 11:19 AM ET

Crazed Beaver Terrorizes Farm

WINNIPEG (Reuters) - A Canadian farm woman is still shaking after a crazed beaver attacked her two giant Newfoundland
dogs named Bonnie and Billy, pinning them against a fence and savaging them.

``It pinned them. I never though beavers were capable of that,'' Sam Pshyshlak told Reuters from her Manitoba farm 60 miles north of Winnipeg.

``I've lost all respect for beavers. I never would have imagined this from a beaver,'' she said of the recent incident.

She said the beaver ``terrorized'' her dogs, which weigh nearly 200 pounds each.

``There was definitely something wrong with it,'' Pshyshlak said.

The thick pelts of beavers were once Canada's main export and the flat-tailed animal has long occupied a place of honor on the country's five-cent coin. Most Canadians see them as cute and industrious but farmers often regard them as a nuisance for the dams they build and the flooding they cause.

Pshyshlak said the animal that attacked her dogs weighed about 30 pounds and tore at Billy's leg and face.

``In the shed, the whole floor was pooled with blood,'' she said.

Pshyshlak said conservation authorities said they would try to trap the animal, although she said she hasn't seen hide nor hair of the beaver since the attack occurred.

[justwannano]

wondering what to do wiht your over abundance of dead groundhogs?

According to the Foxfire books you can make banjo heads from the hide.see foxfire 3

Just trying to be helpful.

I hate to see a valuable resource go to waste.

Oh and did you know that woodys are edible. kinda greasy though.

[Jenbo]

they're big, mean, it would be an even fight.

[fredicus]

Hi,
I'm from London, so I don't know anything about groundhogs,
and our polititians don't allow us guns, so I don't know much about them either,
But I'd like to vote for your trying Fungus Khans idea about blowers and skeet shooting :)
for whatever reason, I find that very amusing...

Never doubt a polititians instinct for self preservation

fred

[wiggidy]

For some odd reason I remember that a chicken's head cavity will implode with a sine wave at certain number of kilohertz.

Oddly enough this info came from a Borland Turbo C++ help file, it was explaining why computer speakers don't go above a certain number of kilohertz. It was a riot of laughter and ongoing bad wit in my computer class for weeks. The professor couldn't make it through a lecture with a chicken-head-imploding comment. But I'm digressing.

You could find out the same frequency for Groundhog/Gopher head cavities and take 'em out. Kinda far fetched. But a thought.

[tcburnett]

I keep waiting for someone to say this, but I suppose it's a forgotten art.

Go get yourself as many 30 minute road flares as you have Gopher holes. Light the flare (which doesn't need oxygen to burn), drop it in the hole and stomp down the earth so the fumes can't come back out. Throw a shovel of dirt on if you need to.

The flares will burn and emit a seriously toxic gas which will expand through the burrow system. If you see any smoke rising, throw a flare in that hole too and cover IT up.

The Gophers will retreat to the safety of their dens, which are engineered to be waterproof, but won't stop this stuff.
Once they decide they have to leave, they won't be able to get out. They will suffocate.

[USCDiver]

You know I was reading a book about Vietnam the other day and this seems quite similar to the VC's tunnel system during the entire war. So here's what I suggest - get some young (and small) farm boys from age 3 - 6 from the local schools - hire a retired "tunnel rat" from the vietnam war to train them and build your own crack fighting unit. Provide them with .45s, a flashlight, a garotte wire, and maybe a red headband like Rambo that could be used as a tourniquet. After a whole system has been searched, and all sensitive groundhog documents and maps have been discovered, either gas the hole and cement the entrance, or call in for an airstrike. Just remember - you're not fighting nazis miles from their fatherland - you're fighting determined little VC bastards trying to defend their homes and their families. Desperate times call for desperate measures - and i believe a crack tunnel rat unit of 4 year olds is desperate enough!

[Jester]

Okay, well, I am a newcomer here, and I have read just about the entire thread, laughing hysterically the whole while. I understand from many of the suggestions that chemical warfare on the nasty little buggers has been brought up, ie antifreeze and the like, but I would like to suggest an even better means of doing so.
See, from what I've read, it seems that your one problem with the antifreeze is getting the friggin things to ingest it, without knowing that you, their mortal enemy, has tampered with their holes. However, my Grandfather, old salt that he is, grew up on a farm, and offered a solution to your dilemma that doesn't involve putting cups of anything out.
According to him, you can go to a grocery/farm supply store, and pick up a bag/can/container of Red Lye. Now, I've never heard of it myself, but apparently red lye is a much stronger form of soap, which is also poisonous if ingested.
The next step, after purchasing the lye, is to sprinkle some around each groundhog hole you find. Since all you're doing is throwing some around, it shouldn't give the nazis any sign that their camp has been infiltrated. According to the groundhog guru, the hogs will come out of the hole, and pick some up on their feet when the walk over it. Since red lye is quite corrosive, it will irritate their skin, and they will, instinctively, lick the offending area to clean it, thus ingesting the poison. This, as one can imagine, is a painful way to go, especially if they drink water after ingesting it, which activates the soap even more.
Now, I don't know how valid this is, or if they still even sell red lye, but if you gave Juicy Fruit a chance, why not try this? If all goes well, you'll have an undetectable chemical weapon and a whole lotta dead 'chucks. That, then, is my humble advice, or, rather, my grandfather's. Whatever.

[carnivorousplant]

I used to know a girl named Marmota Monax.

[darkcool]

I can't believe someone hasn't posted this yet. When I lived in Taos,NM there was a guy there who had hooked a jet engine to some sort of industrial vacuum and would acually suck prarie dogs out of their holes.
Now I realise your critters are bigger, but I've seen this thing work. Trust me, if you can track this guy down his machine will rip 'em right out of the ground.
Similarly, Gay (Gary?) Balfour converted a 28,000 pound streetsweeper into a vacuum that can suck out prairie dogs with "tornado force winds". He calls it the Dog gone. All know is that he is somewhere in the heartland.

[mrblue92]

When I lived in Taos,NM there was a guy there who had hooked a jet engine to some sort of industrial vacuum...The "Taos Hum" explained!

[fierra]

I think the Canadians have overlooked something dead simple - they say that the not-so-little critters hibernate in one central den, sealed in. If you got some echo sensitive equipment it should be able to detect this underground chamber. Dig a hole/use a drill borer (kind used for geological samples) & then either pump cement or poisonous gas in there & get them in one go. Whole family gone & only one small known area of the filed full of cement (ie you don't risk damaging the plough on near to surface cement like the other guys tunnel/cement idea. Instead of being the worst time to hunt the groundhog, it could be your best...
Quick, cheap & sadly lacking in drinking parties!

[darkcool]

LOL, mrblue92. Very good.

[Jester]

You know, I was recently (5 minutes ago) reviewing this thread, and I realize that these Gophers have taken much more than alfalfa, ammo, and dignity from you, Scylla. I fear they may also be taking your soul. At the beginning of this war for humanity, everyone knew you as "Al," the nice, witty, groundhog-plagued city-slicker who worded his complaints well and often. Then, as the war moved along, campaigns became more desperate, and the hogs took over more and more land, Scylla emerged, a new general in the fight, whose replies to requests and suggestions became limited to one liners, using as few words as possible.

Now, of course, SOME people could blame this on the fact that one's time cannot be dedicated completely to hog-nuking, but I believe that, like the late FDR in World War II, (also against Nazis, conveniently enough), you are being worn down by your enemy's resistance. I hope that everyone on this thread realizes the sacrifice that Scylla is making for us, and joins me in praying that the Groundhog Genocide Campaign 2000 will be a complete success. <moment of silence>

That said, have you considered creating some sort of robot groundhog, to be sent into the den to destroy the enemy with it's laser eye beams?

Wait....I think that last paragraph just ruined my serious mood. Dagnabbit!

[captiandipsht]

Ive read about this groundhog sucking machine. I think i read it in "Maxim" magazine. I have a subscription and when i get a chance I'll flip through and see if i can find it. Or you could go to maxim's website and search it, maybe there is something there (Maximmag.com). I wanna see this through, I havent laughed so hard in a looooong time. And if you get this sucking machine, YOU BETTER VIDEO TAPE IT, and send it to Real TV!!! Good luck man. IF that doesnt work, I suggest Napalm.

[captiandipsht]

Another quick inexpensive way yo make a silencer is with a baby bottle nipple. You can buy them anywhere and are really cheap. Just stretch the nipple over the barrell of the gun and start Shooting. We've done this before just to see if it worked, it did, and a few sqirrels died. Give it a shot, you will have to change nipples every few shots, but like i said, its cheap.

[Scylla]

Yes, the price has been high. Once the alfalfa grew past a certain height the enemy could move unseen with impunity. I could no longer use the tractor exhaust contraption without ruining my farmers' alfalfa, I could no longer snipe them because they were unseen... watching me.

At long last the farmer mowed. I have seen heavy action since.

The pups are stupid, and easily disposed of. They see you, but figure if you are fifty or a hundred yards away, you can't hurt them. BLAM! I've sent countless to Valhalla in this fashion. Yes, I know they are only children, but they are tommorrows enemy, and I do what I must, though it takes a terrible toll.

Alas, the veterans among them are quite savvy. If I see them I usually only have split second to fire before they dive into their foxholes. When this occurs I gas the hole for an hour or so with the tractor. They must sense the gas, because occasionaly they make a break for it. I know leave one obvious exit uncovered, and set myself in a position to cover it.

I've spent countless hours in hellish conditions (in the back of my pickup truck reading a book and drinking beer,) waiting for these horrible creatures to sound the all-clear. When they come out of their holes I can get only one before they retreat, then I must wait another half-hour or more, or change my location.

Groundhog activity HAS decreased, but it is taking a lot of effort. Every groundhog that I kill now decreases next years breeding population, and I feel that I am slowly, singlehandedly (with the help of the SDMBers,) getting the upper hand.

My replies have been shorter, because a lot of the suggestions have been covered before.

The red lye sounds like a horrible death, and I can't wait to try it, if I can find the stuff. They had no idea what I was talking about at Agway, but we'll see.

....Waiting for VG day.

-Scylla, Al, or whoever I've become.

[justwannano]

Scylla AKA AL or whoever
Is there a groundhog season in your state? In Iowa it ends in september. Still haven't figured out why.
Groundhog makes a suitable coyote bait. Just in case you want to take your obsession to the next level.

[Jester]

Okay, well, if it helps, according to my sources, they keep red lye in with detergents and such, since it's a soap, and my grandfather says he's used it recently on his farm, so here's hoping.

[Ad Noctum]

I absolutely love the Skeet Shooting option, and think Al should try it
but I'd also like for Scylla or Al to try to copy what bill Murray did in Caddyshack, everyone remember the "freeze Gopher" scene?
he should grab a 25-06 (flat shooting, small, fast bullet) big-ass scope, and a 60watt Halogen flashlight, and dress all up in camo and go out..... that's what I do for Squirrels in Minnesota.... anyhow, best of luck

[Ad Noctum]

another thought, at the local McDonalds my friends and I like to throw Alka Seltzer at the endless supply of Seagulls and watch them fall from the sky.... quite sadistic, yes, funny, hilarious
maybe you could find a way to throw alkaseltzer down they little burrows and get the little Nazi McNasties with an inside job?

[Ad Noctum]

OK, I got this from my own little messed up head.... from the layout of the land and all, I gather that there are some hills around the fields (hills being natural, or roofs, or anything elevated) maybe you could put snipers up on the roofs, and wait a bit until all of the little Nazi McNasties have started moving around, and get a silent 123 count going, and on 3, everyone take a Snipe at them..... (make sure of course, there is no cross-shooting, and that everyone shoots pretty much on 3)...... but the only problem I have found it the relative lack of speech one must use, so hand gestures, or walk-abouts must be used.
Maybe there is a way to get the electric netting everyone was talking about before... maybe get a chain-link fence, but hook it up to voltage? maybe a Yacht Battery?

ah, I have recently seen in a Hunting Magazine a Picture of a Night-vision goggle that is as big as your thumb, with 2.5X vision for under $300 I got the thinking, you know, if they are under that much for a recticle, I wonder how much it would be for a Night-Vision Scope?

I've gotta come up with an outrageous idea instead of only real ones....

(P.S. the "freeze Gopher" Idea was REAL, not a joke!!!)

[KP235]

Hey Scylla,
I wanted to post to you and say, "thanks, man". I discovered this forum due to this thread being in threadspotting. I used to visit the Strait Dope to read Cecils colums, and Nazi Groundhogs turned me on to the message boards. Months later, I even registered. ( OK, so I was slow on that)
Anyhow, about the OP, here in northern Ohio we are having what seems to be a record year for the critters. I don't have a problem with them where I'm at, but they are a nusance on my Dad's property. He's been through many of the previously posted tactics, and the best solution so far is to simply plink them off when ya see em. I believe the head count is over 50 so far this year.
I also used to have a dog, who was no bigger than they were, who had a knack for taking them out. It was something to see. I sure miss that dog, but old age got to him.
Take care.

[andygirl]

One that I haven't seen posted... I don't know if this works for groundhogs, but I've found it to work for other rodents.

If where you live tends to be windy, bury a bunch of bottles in the openings of their burrows so that the wind blows across the openings of the bottles. The sound will resonate through their burrows and drive them crazy to the point that they leave.

It's not mass slaughter, but hey.

[Plavacek]

I could definately see a large amount of quick-dry cement administered by a pressure pump as a solution to the problem..Cement in winter, dig up in early spring. Yes, the field would be unusable, and thoroughly dug up for a bit. But this is war, man! I'm picturing you, standing in front of a Pompei-like cement sculpture with hundreds of NGH corpses forever encased, posing for local media..
You could probably even sell the thing to fancy art galleries. After all, if flies devouring a pig head is art, cemented ground hogs should qualify just as easily (but that's a completely different thread).