Disney's Music Man with Matthew Broderick [Archive]

drewbert

02-16-2003, 09:35 PM

(Note: The Music Man is just about the only musical I've ever liked.)

While it wasn't awful, I think this new version just felt flat compared to the Robert Preston version. So many of the characters in the original movie were so wonderfully over-the-top: Mayor Shinn was a ridiculous blow-hard, Winthrop had a Daffy Duck-like litttthp... even the alto in the barbershop quartet stole a scene. Nearly everyone in town was a caricature, in a fun way. I didn't feel that in this new version.

Plus, Broderick felt too... well, young to be a seasoned, experienced con-man.

I'll agree that it looked great, though.

LifeOnWry

02-16-2003, 09:43 PM

It's awfully hard for anyone to fill Robert Preston's shoes. He played the role so sincerely insincere. As much as I love Matthew Broderick, he seemed too sweet and innocent to carry it off.

LOVE the costumes. Why don't ladies wear hats anymore??

Fibber McGee

02-16-2003, 09:55 PM

Matthew Broderick's sweet and innocent appearance is exactly the thing that could make him a great con man, too bad he doesn't have the acting chops to really sell it. Other than him though, I really enjoyed it.

Guinastasia

02-16-2003, 10:06 PM

I wanted to watch it-since I LOVE those kinds of costumes, but Matthew Broderick makes me want to retch.

Garfield226

02-16-2003, 10:47 PM

It was just so....uninspired. The cast seemed like they were phoning it in. I can accept differences between the two movies. I saw the stage version of it a while back, and it's quite different from the original movie, but it was still pretty good. This version though...it just seemed like the characters (mainly the main characters) were only going through the motions, performing the bare minimum to get paid.

There were a few bright spots. I didn't mind the guy who played Marcellus Washburn. There were a few other minor characters who weren't bad. I was thinking during the quite lengthy 76 trombones number (the first one, in the school), man, it would've been really fun to have been an extra in that.

Singing and dancing: it's what I do. Well, not so much the dancing...but a bit.

Exapno Mapcase

02-16-2003, 10:58 PM

Amazingly, baby-faced Matthew Broderick is 40 years. Which makes him almost as old as the 44-year-old Robert Preston was when the original movie came out.

I only saw the last hour, but Broderick did nothing to impress me.

Quasimodem

02-16-2003, 11:01 PM

When you think of Robert Preston having to lip-sync the Trouble... tune in the film, it makes you appreciate the production all the more, since the pre-recorded song and lip movements are so exact. I haven't seen Mathew Broderick in Disney's version, but then I don't need to: for me Preston will always be The Man. Some things you just shouldn't mess with.

Quasi

Quasimodem

02-16-2003, 11:06 PM

Forgot to add something: I respect Mr. Broderick as a fine actor, but in The Music Man he just "doesn't know the territory!"

:D

Q

amarinth

02-16-2003, 11:58 PM

I love the Music Man. It's one of the few shows that I'll listen to straight through - every song, every time. It's simply wonderful.

The Robert Preston version (even though it does fall into cheesiness from time to time) he's wonderful. The town's people are great, the visual jokes are there.... Hermione Gringold. Shirley Jones... the dancing is beyond words.

I didn't think they'd match it. But I thought it would be better than my "well, it didn't completely suck." (how did they get into a classroom in the middle of 76 trombones? What was that? Why was that? Why were they so friendly in "You ought to give Iowa a try"? Why was Marcellus not dancing with his girlfriend in the Shipoopi? (Actually he did very well, and he also had a daunting predecessor) Why did it take Broderick 'til halfway through "the sadder but wiser girl" to develop a personality? And what was with the "let's not show their feet and do a bunch of quick choppy cuts during the dance numbers" editing? What happened to "great hawk"?)

The costuming was pretty. Sets were nice. Still - I wanted more.

Rilchiam

02-17-2003, 12:21 AM

I'm sorry, but the Robert Preston/Shirley Jones version is just too special to me. I missed all the little bits, like the anvil salesman finally dropping the case on his foot in the closing credits. (Though I did appreciate seeing Patrick McKenna, woohoo!) And the three-shot of Marion, Winthrop and Hill after the "Wells Fargo" number. And why did so many scenes, like Marion and Hill on the front porch, and the final conflict, take place during the day?

And, not to put down Broderick or Chenoweth, but they didn't match Preston's slick cool or Jones' passion. Which could be forgivable if they'd interpreted the characters in some new and interesting way, but they didn't. Agree with drewbert about the supporting characters.

Kallessa

02-17-2003, 12:26 AM

I liked it! Made me fall in love with The Music Man all over again. Maybe I'm just tired ofthe classic version--it didn't hold my interest the last time I tried to watch it (but then, I'm not overly fond of Shirley Jones).

Fenris

02-17-2003, 06:03 AM

Brodrick barely managed "competent" during most of the musical, but I gotta say his "Sadder But Wiser Girl" was the one moment he had a legitimate "A different, equally good interpretation" moment. He was just excellent in that one number. If only he would relax and perform that well in other numbers.

Chenoweth rocked, but she always does.

The mayor was inappropriately creepy. The mayor's wife had absolutely no personality whatsoever.

Marion's mom couldn't decide whether she was trying to be the mom from the movie or not.

The "Marion the Librarian" number sucked so badly that, had it been even a tiny bit worse, it coulda collapsed in on itself and become a black hole. Repeat after me: "camera tricks are NOT a substitute for coreography". Why is Hill teleporting around the library? Can't he dance? What's with the stupid, inappropriate scene from Cinderella that was inserted? Why are they waltzing? Where was the stolen kiss and the slap? It should be one of the two show-stopping moments. Instead it was an embarrassed-for-them moment.

Why isn't "The Shipopi" Marcelles's big number? Hill and Marion stole it. And why was "Three Blind Mice" inserted into the middle?

What was with the smoking car during the "Rock Island" number at the beginning? I've been in mansions less luxurious. And why wasn't anyone (except the balding guy) bouncing in time to the train's motion?

And the camerawork was sooooooo damn obviously desperate to not duplicate ANYTHING the movie did (except during the Rock Island number which was slavishly copied) that they had some really REALLY stupid camera choices: the obvious one was during the "Lyda Rose"number where, instead of the simple split-screen that the movie used, they seemed to think that "Holy Socks, Batman! We'll use a "Tilt the camera" technique that was stale in the '60s! Then we'll superimpose a left-tilted Marion over a right-tilted barbershop quartet so all you have is a big, ugly, unwatchable blur on the screen!" :rolleyes:. I understand that you don't wanna imitate the movie shot-for-shot, but c'mon. You can go too far in the other direction too. (The aforementioned three-shot of Marion, Winthrop and Hill after "Wells Fargo" was another "We CAN'T do what the movie did so we'll just make an inferior choice" moment)

Why was Tommy Chilas's expression changed: Great Honk!=Funny. Jeezum Crow! (or whatever it was) = Not funny.

I liked the revised ending where it's (presumably) a year later with "Hill's Music Emporium". That really worked for me.

I also loved the fact that they lost the atrocious "Being In Love With Love" song (which just sucked) and put back in the original (and far superior) "My White Knight".

Overall, except for Brodrick (who just is too damn stiff in musicals: listen to him in "How To Succeed in Business Without Really Trying". He's got the same problem) and the Mayor (c'mon guy: you're not playing the sherriff in "Cool Hand Luke"!), it was a nice try that did some things well (Chenoweth!!!!!!) and some things horribly.

Overall, a nice try.

Fenris

RealityChuck

02-17-2003, 08:06 AM

I think that "The Music Man" is a cast-proof musical. It's hard to screw it up.

I agree that Broderick didn't quite have the chops -- a bit too lightweight and innocent looking to be Harold Hill. I didn't watch the whole thing (I changed to the Simpsons), but the first hour was done well, with a few little nitpicks (what was with the background music in "Rock Island"? It only detracts). Chenoweth was superb, though.

TV time

02-17-2003, 08:31 AM

Someone should have told Broderick that "con man" stands for "confidence man". He had none. With Preston I would have bought instruments and uniforms from him in an instant (and I don't even have kids), but with Broderick, I doubt that he could sell a $300 toilet seat to a Pentagon purchasing agent. In regards to the other things, I agree with almost everyone who has written - just no magic.

I might add that I was surprised that so much of Broderick's dancing was done by a double. I realize that he is a busy man and cannot be expected to be able to do as many of the dance steps as Preston or any touring company Harold Hill, but I felt a bit cheated that the director had to resort (especially evident in "Marion" scene) to long shots, quick cuts, low lighting and strange angle shots to avoid making it clear that it was not Broderick doing his own dancing. What it did for me, at least, was indicate that it was indeed not Broderick.

TV

kunilou

02-17-2003, 08:52 AM

For this musical to work, I have to believe that Harold Hill was the most exciting thing ever to hit River City, that people would pay just to SEE him, much less sign their kids up for his band. Robert Preston did that for me, Matthew Broderick didn't.

Shirley Ujest

02-17-2003, 10:30 AM

Just a FYI about the Original:

When The Music Man was on broadway, it was smash hit.
Naturally, Hollywood wanted to put it to film, and many leading men were considered.

The Powers that Be wanted and picked Cary Grant.

Cary Grant, having seen Robert Preston on stage, said, (paraphrasing) "There is only one harold hill and his name is Robert Preston."

I agree completely.

Eve

02-17-2003, 10:34 AM

Another minor point that irritated me--and I only watched a few minutes; just long enough to get irritated. Why did they have a black actress as one of the mayoresses' friends? And a black couple at the sody fountain? Yes, it's very nice that they are giving minority performers a break; but all I could think was, "that never would have happened in a small Midwestern town in 1910!" If they were so determined to be p.c., why not throw in a lesbian couple, and make the Mayor Asian?

All it did for me was to break the little believability it had: "This is not the Midwest of 1910; it's Hollywood in 2003."

Roadwalker

02-17-2003, 11:06 AM

I wish Buddy Hacket could have reprised his role. Imagine that.

StGermain

02-17-2003, 01:31 PM

Back in the '70's I saw Dick Van Dyke in a touring production of "The Music Man". He was great! He brought the energy and good-natured slyness of Professor Harold Hill (I almost wrote Henry Higgins).

I didn't watch the Matthew Broderick version. It seemed like a train wreck from the start.

StG

a35362

02-17-2003, 01:34 PM

It wasn't bad. It was a Disney TV movie. I enjoyed it. Broderick does seem awfully stiff and uncomfortable, though. And he has no singing voice!! Jeez.

Velma

02-17-2003, 01:41 PM

I taped it because I was watching Simpsons and am disappointed to hear so many people say it's not very good. I'll still watch it, though. I was in a stage production of it and it's such a fun show to do (I was one of the "Grecian Urn" ladies:). )

The ads for it made me all excited, I thought Broderick would make a pretty good Hill.

StGermain, I've always thought Dick VanDyke would make a good Harold Hill. He has that quick wit.

LurkMeister

02-17-2003, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Shirley Ujest
Just a FYI about the Original:

When The Music Man was on broadway, it was smash hit.
Naturally, Hollywood wanted to put it to film, and many leading men were considered.

The Powers that Be wanted and picked Cary Grant.

Cary Grant, having seen Robert Preston on stage, said, (paraphrasing) "There is only one harold hill and his name is Robert Preston."

I agree completely.
The way I heard it was that Cary Grant, in turning down the part, said that not only would he not play Harold Hill, but if they cast anyone but Preston in the part he wouldn't even go see the movie.

My wife's continual comment throughout the movie was that Broderick was "too young" to be believable in the part; he didn't look like he could have been pulling this sort of con for as long as the backstory implied. And I agree with most of the comments made about the characterizations being too bland.

And was anyone else bothered by the fact that Marion was inexplicably accepted by the "pick-a-little" group during the Fourth of July festival planning? Unless I missed something, it seemed like all of a sudden she was "one of the girls," with the Mayor's wife even doing a modified reprise of the "lump of lead as cold as steel" verse. Don't remember anything like that in the original movie.

Oh, and both my wife and I would have killed to see Dick Van Dyke play Professor Harold Hill.

japatlgt

02-17-2003, 04:58 PM

"FOUR SCORE..."

Cary Grant in a musical?

I havn't seen the latest version yet and probably won't. MM is one of my favorites and yes, there couldn't possibly be another Harold Hill. MATTHEW BRODERICK!!!!! All I can say is I hope they had fun.

"FOUR SCORE..."

pricciar

02-17-2003, 05:13 PM

BobT

02-17-2003, 05:34 PM

According to the IMDB, Cary Grant never starred in a movie that has the "genre" of "musical" except for two shorts, in which I think he is just playing himself.

Cary Grant did sing "Puttin' on the Ritz" in one film, which I remember seeing from "That's Entertainment".

Rilchiam

02-17-2003, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by japatlgt
"FOUR SCORE..."

"...andsevenyearsagoour---"

Julius Henry

02-17-2003, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by BobT
Cary Grant did sing "Puttin' on the Ritz" in one film, which I remember seeing from "That's Entertainment".

That was Clark Gable doing "Puttin' on the Ritz." Cary Grant sang -- well, spoke -- "Did I Remember" to Jean Harlow in "That's Entertainment."

censored

02-17-2003, 05:58 PM

I saw The Music man on Broadway a few years ago and Craig
Bierko played Harold Hill - I thought he was great at it.

Trigonal Planar

02-17-2003, 10:22 PM

I liked the "doesn't know the Territory" opening number with Patrick McKenna. But after that, all I could think was cheap highschool production...

Baldwin

02-17-2003, 11:10 PM

Seemed kind of lackluster, as if they were afraid to cut loose. Even the dialogue seemed subdued; a musical needs everything a little exaggerated. My girlfriend gave it half an hour, then got out her DVD of the Robert Preston movie.

If I had been casting a tv production, I would have considered Treat Williams. Seriously.

Rilchiam

02-17-2003, 11:20 PM

Originally posted by Baldwin

If I had been casting a tv production, I would have considered Treat Williams. Seriously.

Can he sing?

Spavined Gelding

02-17-2003, 11:26 PM

As an Iowan, The Music Man occupies a place in my heart second only to the New Testament, or maybe the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem at Carnegie Hall. My first date with Mrs. Gelding was to a lecture at the University by Meredith Wilson.

I knew we were in trouble in the opening number, the Rock Island piece, when Walt Disney Inc. thought it necessary to intersperse the singing with shots of the locomotive drivers so that you would understand that the cadence of the train wheels matched the "Cash for the merchandise, cash for the button hooks * Cash for the cotton goods, cash for the hard goods * Cash for the fancy goods * Cash for the noggins and the piggins and the frikins * Cash for the hogshead, cask and demijohn. Cash for the crackers and the pickles and the flypaper. * Look whaddaya talk, whaddaya talk, whaddaya talk, whaddaya talk, whaddaya talk? * Wheredayagitit? * Whaddaya talk? " lyrics---which can be found here (http://www.endresnet.com/mmlyrics.html[/url) incidently. What Disney did was dumb down the whole production. I hated it. Give me back old Robert Preston.

Annie-Xmas

02-18-2003, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by Rilchiam
Can he sing?

Treat sang in the movie Hair .

voguevixen

02-18-2003, 11:11 AM

I didn't make it very far, and I have no prejudice against movie re-makes or anything. Music Man is one of my faves but this was so...BLAH!

Did anyone else think it was too "brown?" I mean this is the era of HDTV and Digital Cable and they make a 3 hour movie that looks like everyone is covered in mud?

RilchYou MUST see the movie Hair!

BiblioCat

02-18-2003, 11:56 AM

For nostalgia, get the movie GodSpell.
It has an incredibly young and all but unrecognizable Victor Garber (who played the mayor in this version of The Music Man) playing Jesus.

Talk about a movie that Does Not Age Well.

ECJones29

02-18-2003, 12:15 PM

You guys are so cool! I didn't think anyone cared about this sort of thing except me and my friend RMW.

It's awfully hard to follow in the footsteps of anyone who made an acting role his or her own, such as Yul Brynner, Rex Harrison, etc. I didn't have super high hopes for Broderick going in, so wasn't too disappointed.

As for Robert Preston, the Washington Post interviewed him shortly before his death. Lively, amusing stuff as you might expect. (He was making an HBO movie in Richmond at the time.)

And the headline? "Robert Preston with a 'P' and that rhymes with 'C' and that stands for "Cool."

MovieMogul

02-18-2003, 12:18 PM

Eve said: Another minor point that irritated me--and I only watched a few minutes; just long enough to get irritated. Why did they have a black actress as one of the mayoresses' friends? And a black couple at the sody fountain? Yes, it's very nice that they are giving minority performers a break; but all I could think was, "that never would have
happened in a small Midwestern town in 1910!" If they were so determined to be p.c., why not throw in a lesbian couple, and make the Mayor Asian?
I only saw 15 minutes before I had to change the channel, but I noticed this too. Personally, I think this is perfectly consistent with the idea that this was no better than a high school production, where you have to scrounge up every available semi-talented person, at whatever expense to historical accuracy.

Of course, that's a fair standard for High School. What was ABC's excuse (since it certainly didn't appear to help this thoroughly anemic production)?

swingchick

02-18-2003, 12:32 PM

I played Marion in a production of Music Man, so I was very critical of her in the movie. I didn't enjoy her voice. I thought her tones sounded too modern.

jsc1953

02-18-2003, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by Spavined Gelding

I knew we were in trouble in the opening number, the Rock Island piece, when Walt Disney Inc. thought it necessary to intersperse the singing with shots of the locomotive drivers so that you would understand that the cadence of the train wheels matched the "Cash for the merchandise, cash for the button hooks * Cash for the cotton goods, cash for the hard goods * Cash for the fancy goods * Cash for the noggins and the piggins and the frikins * Cash for the hogshead, cask and demijohn. Cash for the crackers and the pickles and the flypaper. * Look whaddaya talk, whaddaya talk, whaddaya talk, whaddaya talk, whaddaya talk? * Wheredayagitit? * Whaddaya talk? " lyrics---which can be found here (http://www.endresnet.com/mmlyrics.html[/url) incidently. What Disney did was dumb down the whole production. I hated it. Give me back old Robert Preston.

The director of the film version made the same mistake, only worse--this is about the only thing in which the Disney version was an improvement. Not only did he intercut shots of the locomotive during Rock Island--in case you didn't get that the couple with the pitchfork looked like Grant Wood's American Gothic, he put a picture frame around them. And he intercut real chickens with the ladies' hats during Pick-a-Little. Whadda hack.

Thanks for the lyrics. I love that number!

You can talk, you can talk, you can bicker you can talk, you can bicker bicker bicker bicker talk talk talk...

Largo62

02-18-2003, 08:54 PM

I actually watched the whole thing. Masochist, I guess. Production values seemed good, but entirely, well, Disney. I didn't mind Chenoweth, and I really like her voice, but comparisons to Shirley Jones are impossible not to make. Jones had maturity and flair (even at age 19) that Chenoweth lacks. I did like the use of My White Knight instead of Being In Love (which was written by Willson especially for Shirley Jones to sing in the film version).

There were some things I liked about Garber's Mayor Shin, but he's no Paul Ford. Molly Shannon should have used some of her SNL over-the-top performing skills. In this piece she seemed to be sleep walking.

The kids who played Tommy and Zineeta were just fine. I like the kid that played Winthrop, too. Marion's mama was okay, but she couldn't decide whether to use an accent or not.

Marcellus was okay, but not funny. He, too, seemed a little young for the history he was supposed to have had with Harold Hill.

With Eve I was a little bothered by the PC use of blacks as a traveling salesman (the Rock Island number) and friends and neighbors of white Iowans in 1910. It's sweet, and it fits just fine in 2003, but it isn't accurate in context. But that's Disney.

Then there was Harold. From the Trouble Right Here In River City number on I kept getting this vision of a deer in the headlights. Broderick's baby face might inspire confidence, but the attitude of the seasoned con man, to say nothing of the experienced roué, was completely missing. Bland as eggs without salt and pepper. I kept wishing for the resurrection of Robert Preston.

Overall I would put this film with most remakes. It's okay if you didn't see the original, but Eisner and company could have spent the money better on another project...something, you know, original.

If anybody ever remakes Casablanca I won't give it so much as a glance.

BobT

02-19-2003, 01:42 AM

According to the IMDB, Shirley Jones was 28 when "The Music Man" was released. She was pregnant during the filming of that movie also.

Largo62

02-19-2003, 01:45 AM

Originally posted by BobT
According to the IMDB, Shirley Jones was 28 when "The Music Man" was released. She was pregnant during the filming of that movie also.
I stand corrected. No wonder she seemed mature.

jsc1953

02-19-2003, 10:28 AM

"Rock Island" in the Disney version had lyrics that weren't in the movie--something about sanitary wrapped crackers replacing the old cracker barrel. What's the story--was this a restoration of Broadway lyrics that didn't make the movie?

Re: PC-ness....I think this was the same production company that made "Cinderella" with a black Cinderella (Brandy) and a Filipino Prince. So they're all about Diversity. Which is fine--historical accuracy isn't what makes or breaks a musical for me.

ElvisL1ves

02-19-2003, 10:32 AM

Ye Go-ods. If you can't make a better movie than the original, don't do it - and the original is unimprovable in any way. The Marian actress was just as good as Shirley Jones, but no better, and everyone else was worse. I just got the Robert Preston DVD to clear the memory of this lifeless crap from my brain.

It seemed like the entire cast was over-rehearsed, going through too many takes, to have any energy or enthusiasm left over. They all seemed to conscious of getting their steps and words right. Perhaps a movie musical needs to be cast with stage performers, accustomed to getting it done right the first time, not with TV/movie actors.

The inappropriate casting of Matthew Broderick, apparently as a self-indulgent star turn for him, was by the same people who let Glenn Close play Nellie in "South Pacific", and it worked about as well. I won't waste time on any more of these.

ElvisL1ves

02-19-2003, 10:34 AM

Oh, one more thing: They needlessly continued the polite fiction that Winthrop is Marian's much-younger kid brother, when we all really know (don't we?) that he's really her love child by Miser Madison. How else would Marian truly be "sadder but wiser"?

jsc1953

02-19-2003, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by ElvisL1ves
Perhaps a movie musical needs to be cast with stage performers, accustomed to getting it done right the first time, not with TV/movie actors.

The inappropriate casting of Matthew Broderick, apparently as a self-indulgent star turn for him....

I'm not going to defend Matthew Broderick (I thought he was pretty lifeless), but I do have to point out that he IS a stage actor, coming off successful runs in The Producers and a revival of How to Succeed in Business... Even though we may all think of him as Ferris Bueller.

amarinth

02-19-2003, 11:31 AM

She's not.

Or have I been wooshed?

ElvisL1ves

02-19-2003, 12:10 PM

I'm suggesting that Meredith Willson "cleaned up" the story a bit for Fifties sensibilities. Harold's true attraction to Marian, unlike all the other spinster music teachers he had dealt with, never made sense to me, especially in light of his song about liking his women experienced. But if Marian met the bill in that regard, being really sadder but wiser, it also makes more sense than the huge age difference vs. her "brother".

ElvisL1ves

02-19-2003, 12:20 PM

Also, Winthrop's grief over his father's death two years back fits in well with the timing of Mr. Madison's death.

Don't bother telling me I need a life. I already know.

RTFirefly

02-19-2003, 01:44 PM

Elvis - I gotta agree with you about Winthrop.

jsc - it's not that we think of Broderick as Ferris, it's the baby face that does it. He looks more like he's 23 than he looks like 40.

I thought the Disney production was pretty good, but Broderick didn't have a prayer of being Harold Hill. He doesn't have the voice for the songs that require some power and brassiness in the voice ("Trouble", "76 Trombones"), and apparently body doubles did his dancing. If you can't sing and you can't dance, then this just isn't your part.

I grew up on the Robert Preston version, but it's been decades since I've seen it. I think it's time to see if the library's got a copy.

a35362

02-28-2003, 01:40 PM

Just FYI...

Turner Classic Movies will be showing the Robert Preston/Shirley Jones version on Monday, March 3rd at 8/7c, as part of their annual 31 Days of Oscar programming (every single movie they show in March was at least nominated for an Oscar in some category).

Plus they'll have Chitty Chitty Bang Bang on Tuesday, and North by Northwest on Wednesday, and Bells of St. Mary's on Thursday, and Sergeant York on Friday, and...

Ceejaytee

02-28-2003, 02:06 PM

1. I was and am disappointed with the casting of Shirley Jones as Marian. Barbara Cook is Marian. Who the heck decided she wasn't film-worthy? No one sings like Barbara Cook.

2. Craig Bierko was excellent on Broadway. I have a crush on Robert Preston, but I thought Bierko was great. Why didn't they just film the cast of the Broadway production? Bierko has tons of soap opera fans who probably would have watched it.

3. I didn't watch this production--Matthew Broderick just seemed like bad casting to me. He's likeable and all, but too lightweight for this role. From what you've all said, I'm not sorry I missed it.

DrDeth

02-28-2003, 04:23 PM

But the question is "WHY"?! When they do some film, and get it down great, fantastic, and wonderful- WHY try again? I have heard they are going to re-do "Guys & Dolls". Sinatra was great, and the whole cast- there is simply no way to make it better.

Now- there are quite a few Damon Rinyon stories that didn't get any treatment on the big screen- or a poorr treatment-. Do one of those instead.

Isn't there a shred of original thought anywhere in Hollywood?

Fenris

02-28-2003, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by DrDeth
But the question is "WHY"?! When they do some film, and get it down great, fantastic, and wonderful- WHY try again? I have heard they are going to re-do "Guys & Dolls". Sinatra was great, and the whole cast- there is simply no way to make it better.
:: Fenris's head explodes ::

Sure there is: Make a movie of "Guys and Dolls", as opposed to the "Let's toss out tons o' stuff from the Broadway play 'cause it's too hard and let's butcher the songs to give Frankie more to sing" version from the movie.

Um...IMO, Sinatra sucked. He's got a great voice and he's wonderful in a number of other roles (he was killer good in "On the Town") , but he's so incredibly inappropriate for Nathan that it's not funny. In addition, he was shoehorned into a bunch of songs that he didn't belong in, (Why in the world is he participating in "Guys and Dolls" which is about Benny and Nicely commenting on Nathan's cluelessness. Or in "The Oldest Established" which is also about other people talking about Nathan.)

Sinatra also isn't nearly able to pull of the Jewishness of the role that Nathan's character demands. It's clear that in "Sue Me", Sinatra has no idea that he's supposed to be saying the Yiddish word "Nu" (meaning "So what?") rather than the word "New" (Meaning not much in this context). You don't have to be a Zero Mostel to play Nathan, but a hint...just a little one...of some clue would be appropriate.

Brando, for all that he couldn't sing, was able to pull of Sky by sheer coolness.

In any event, beyond the butchery of Loesser's brilliant score to give Sinatra more to sing, they left out four or five songs in the movie.

An actual movie of the musical is a fantastic idea.

Fenris

Rilchiam

02-28-2003, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by Fenris
In any event, beyond the butchery of Loesser's brilliant score to give Sinatra more to sing, they left out four or five songs in the movie.

Argh!

When I was a wee one, my mom used to sing "Bushel and a Peck" to me all the time. I love you/A bushel and a peck/A bushel and a peck and a hug around the neck/Hug around the neck and a barrel and a heap... So when I finally got a chance to see the movie, I was all excited to see that number...

"What? Why are the singing this dumb song, this alphabet thing? Where's Bushel and a Peck?"

"They must not have thought it 'worked' on screen."

"Phooey on them."

amarinth

02-28-2003, 07:38 PM

Canadagirl

02-28-2003, 09:31 PM

I've never seen the one with Robert Preston- amI missing something?

Rilchiam

02-28-2003, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by Canadagirl
I've never seen the one with Robert Preston- amI missing something?

YES.

Fenris

03-01-2003, 12:05 AM

Originally posted by Canadagirl
I've never seen the one with Robert Preston- amI missing something?
YES

(sense a trend? ;) )

Fenris

kaylasdad99

03-01-2003, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by Canadagirl
I've never seen the one with Robert Preston- amI missing something? Only if you're interested in seeing The Music Man done with a Harold Hill that you could trust to con River City out of its collective britches.

In other words, YES!

Broderick looked like he might have been comfortable playing the role of Nancy's boyfriend George in Pollyanna, but he simply can't pull off a middle-aged predatory grifter, always looking over his shoulder for the whistle-blowing type who happens to remember him.

amarinth

03-01-2003, 01:30 AM

Originally posted by Canadagirl
I've never seen the one with Robert Preston- amI missing something? yes!

ElvisL1ves

03-01-2003, 01:19 PM

Ye Go-ods, yes.

Not only are you missing Robert Preston in the definitive performance, you're missing Hermione Gingold and Paul Ford as Mr. and Mrs. Shinn, Buddy Hackett as Marcellus, and Ronnie Howard's screen debut as Winthrop. Any of the above are enough reason to watch. You'll be humming "Seventy Six Trombones" for days afterward, too. It's on DVD for US$16.99.

Spoons

03-01-2003, 02:39 PM

Okay, so The Music Man with Matthew Broderick is not so great, if the comments here are anything to go by.

I'm kind of sorry to hear that. We missed it when it was on TV recently; when is it coming out on DVD?

The reason I ask is because the train scenes were filmed not far from where we live. The train itself is a heritage-tourist train that runs on weekends between Stouffville and Uxbridge, two little towns in Ontario.

Anyway, my wife and I took it last year; we know a lot of people who volunteer their time and railroad expertise on it, and we finally got around to riding on their train. You can imagine our consternation when instead of boarding the York-Durham Heritage Railway in Stouffville, we got on the Rock Island Line. And when the train had travelled the twelve miles to the other end of the line, we were pulling into River City, Iowa; instead of Uxbridge, Ontario. Complete with all the crates and whatnot on the platform. Our railroad friends explained that their Uxbridge station and the train itself were being used as a location for a movie.

Anyway, in spite of the not-so-great-reviews that it's getting from the Dopers, it would be kind of fun to see it, just to see how the Uxbridge location looked in the final film. Will it be out on DVD, or is it already? Anybody know?

Fenris

03-01-2003, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by ElvisL1ves
Ye Go-ods, yes.
You mind you phraseology!

Mayor Fenris Shinn

LurkMeister

03-01-2003, 05:41 PM

Great Honk!

I'm sorry, I don't know what came over me. I'll just curl up with my DVD and be quiet.

Lute Skywatcher

03-05-2003, 09:22 AM

I watched the 1962 movie the other night and thought of this thread. Disney should have hired someone who had experience in playing characters who got others to go along with him against their better judgment. Dan Ayckroyd comes to mind. Professor Harold Hill as an upbeat version of Elwood Blues would probably have been an improvement!

Jinx

03-05-2003, 10:31 AM

I love Disney, but I have to admit...Disney should leave the musicals alone! Ne touche pas! (Do not touch!). And, as for Matthew Broderick, he's just an overrated actor. He ranks up there with Michael J. Fox, another overrated, no-talent who's ego is too big for this universe... although I regret to hear about his illness in recent years.

When push comes to shove, Broderick's no-talent abilities come shining through in his role as Prof. Hill. Anyone could play the lead in Wargames or Farris Bueller, etc. It just goes to prove that to play Professor Hill means you gotta have heart! ...Miles and miles and miles of heart...oh, sorry! That's a different musical...damn those Yankees! ;)
- Jinx