Two Time Heart Lung Transplant Patient an Illegal Alien?

[ivylass]

According to this (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/michellemalkin/mm20030221.shtml) opinion piece, Jesica, the heart-lung transplant patient at Duke University who had the wrong type organs implanted, is an illegal alien.

I have been unable to verify this. The article refers to "other news outlets" but maybe I'm typing the wrong words in Google.

As a parent, if I had to do something illegal to save the life of my child, I would do it in a cold second.

Apparently there is some resentment toward illegal aliens coming here for complicated surgery and the taxpayers being forced to foot the bill. The article implies US citizens can die while illegal aliens get treatment and transplants.

As I understand it, UNOS is blind. Whoever needs it the most, gets it.

I think the problem here is not illegal aliens coming here for treatment. The problem is they are not able to get quality medical care in their own country. Jesica was obviously unable to have get the transplants in Mexico, so her parents brought her here. Illegally, yes, but dammit, they were trying to save her life.

I would suggest the problem be solved along the lines of the old adage, "Give a man to fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime." We need to help these countries develop their medical know-how and technology so they can perform these complicated surgeries themselves. The conjoined twins from Guatemala(?) had to come here to be separated. How much less trauma would it have been on them and their families if Guatemalen doctors had been able to perform the surgery? After all, you don't see a lot of Japanese coming here for organ transplants.

When I say "We need to help," I do not mean we as taxpayers. I'm suggesting pharmaceutical companies, private charities, or perhaps Doctors Without Borders voluntarily help these countries develop medical technology necessary to do these delicate surgeries. Perhaps a charity or company can sponsor 100 Mexican or Guatemalan citizens who show promise to come here to be trained as doctors and surgeons and return to their country to practice.

Will this work?

And BTW, is there such thing as a medical visa, so a non-citizen can come here for medical treatment without fear of deportation?

[Fixed link. -- MEB]

[X~Slayer(ALE)]

Any person who thinks its right to deny a life saving operation to a child just because she happens to have born in the wrong country need to have their citizenship revoked.

Do they want the doctors to check for citizenship papers (which americans born in the USA do not have) before treatment?

do they think it is morally justifiable, politically correct or legally advisable to let the child die rather than spend the money?

[Scylla]

There are not many countries that are able to do what we are able to do medically. Legally 5% of transplants may be performed on foreign nationals . Part of the reason for this limit is simple math.

Foreign nationals coming onto our soil are getting organs from Americans. However, there are no methods by which Americans can recieve organs from foreigners.

Each foreigner that comes in dilutes the transplant pool.

It's sad to consider that by offering to do good to others we can reduce the chances of American citizens receiving the benefits of their own generosity when in need.

[ivylass]

X~Slayer, if the first surgery had gone well, we would not know Jesica existed. She would have been one of the 5%.

[Bob55]

Originally posted by X~Slayer(ALE)
Any person who thinks its right to deny a life saving operation to a child just because she happens to have born in the wrong country need to have their citizenship revoked.


I feel terrible for this girl but there are horrible stories throughout the world everyday - I think we should take care of our own first. I'm sure there's a 7 year old American girl with taxpaying parents out there who needs a heart or lung transplant but isn't going to get one b/c 2 were used on an illegal immigrant.

[MsRobyn]

I don't trust Michelle Malkin; her columns tend to knee-jerk conservatism, and on some occasions, I have called her facts into question. Citing "other news outlets" doesn't cut it for me; they could be reliable, or they could be specious. Without naming sources, I have to write the whole column off as a conservative rant, especially given her rather purple prose.

I just looked at the most recent stories on cnn.com and msnbc.com, and was not able to find any reference to Jesica's legal status. The msnbc article mentioned that she moved from Mexico to a relative's home in Kentucky to get medical care.

Legal status aside, let's not forget that the reason she needed two sets of organs was because the transplant surgeon made a mistake. He did not bother to type the organs prior to transplant, assuming they had already been typed.

I think that basic human compassion should override "public policy" in this case. This little girl is probably going to die because of the malpractice committed by the transplant surgeon. I don't think it matters one whit whether she's here legally or illegally.

Robin

[monstro]

I thought her medical bills were being paid by a private benefactor, not tax money.

[Tamerlane]

Let us note that foreign visitor does not actually equal "illegal immigrant". Otherwise we would have the INS deporting Japanese tourists right and left in San Francisco.

Unless this operation is being paid with U.S. tax dollars, it seems to me to just be an issue of the market responding to need, if you're a laissez-faire type ( which I'm not, necessarily, but just to throw out the argument ). The issue of whether there is a desperate shortage of transplant material, where nationalism should intersect with that if there is, and how the waiting list works are separate points from the "illegal immigrant" thing.

But frankly I kind of hate the idea of being jingoistic with children's lives. To the neediest first, IMHO.

- Tamerlane

[GusNSpot]

Just having the correct blood type is not the ONLY criteria for getting a donor organ. It just ain't that easy and many people die waiting for a SUITABLE organ even when there are some organs of the right blood type out there. And sometimes organs go to waste because no one is in need at the exact time one becomes available because they do not match those that are in need.

[leander]

According to this AP article (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030221/ap_wo_en_ge/na_gen_us_transplant_error_13):Hospitals may place non-U.S. citizens on their transplant waiting lists and must give them the same priority level as citizens, but can perform no more than 5 percent of their transplants on non-citizens, said [United Network for Organ Sharing] group spokeswoman Anne Paschke.

[Primaflora]

There's a little boy from my city currently in New York undergoing treatment for leukaemia which is not available in Australia. It's costing the family over a million dollars to try and save his life. There's been no question of saying he was an illegal alien. Like Jesica he's in the US paying for treatment which may or may not save his life. If Jesica were Australian and not Mexican, would this kneejerk columnist have written what she did?

[BURNER]

If her family is paying the bills for the operation, then by all means she should get it. Like Primaflora said, the kid from her city cant get whatever treatment he needs at home. The point was also made that the childs parents were paying for the treatment with their own money.

If the money is comeing from American tax dollars, then this kid needs to take a hike. I agree with the sentiment put forth by Bob55 , that we should take care of our own first. If you look at your countrie like it was your family it makes more sense. You wouldnt donate your kidney to your next door neighbor if you little sister needed it, would you? In the same sense we shouldnt care for others before we care for our own.

[Eva Luna]

Originally posted by ivylass



And BTW, is there such thing as a medical visa, so a non-citizen can come here for medical treatment without fear of deportation?

The regular B-2 visitor (aka tourist) visa is also legitimately used for coming to the U.S. for medical treatment, or for accompanying a minor child who is coming to the U.S. for medical treatment.

The catch is that it's a strictly nonimmigrant visa category, meaning that if the consular official who looks at your application doesn't believe you have sufficient ties to your home country to motivate you to go home at he end of the validity period of your visa, he/she is not likely to approve you application.

I don't know anything about this family's circumstances back home, but the kind of ties that would be useful support for a visa application are lots of family members back home (the closer, the better), a good job, property, assets; basically, anything that will tend to prove that you have something to go back to. So people from countries with a lower standard of living than the U.S. generally have a more difficult time getting visas.

I'd also be surprised to learn that only 5% of organ transplants can be performed on non-citizens; I hope they mean transplants are limited for people who are not residing legally and permanently in the U.S., rather than just for non-citizens. Why should permanent residents, refugees, and asylees be treated differentially for this purpose?

[Eva Luna]

Oh, and one more thought; donor organs come from anyone who donates an organ upon dying in the U.S.; I'm sure some non-citizens end up donating organs into the U.S. pool. I bet some donor organs even come from people not legally present in the U.S.

[syncrolecyne]

Having lived in Mexico, I know that there are indeed hospitals in Mexico that can perform cardiopulmonary transplants. Maybe not enough to serve 100 million people...but Mexico has many skilled physicians and modern facilities, it is not as ass-backward as many Americans seem to think. Mexico's problem is not backwardness (as Guatemala), it is horrendous inequality. Mexicans who can afford it stay in first world hospitals, ordinary Mexicans will crowd the public IMSS hospitals.

Personally, I think it's Mexico's shame that Jesica was probably compelled to go to the United States for this transplant when Mexico indeed has the technology and resources to do this - just not the will to make life better for the majority of its citizens.

Also, Jesica was 13 or so when she came here. Unless she is a teenage runaway, it was not her choice to be an "illegal" anything, and as someone mentioned, a wealthy American financed her stay in America and this operation - which if it had not been so terribly botched - would not have caught anyone's notice (except maybe Malkin's), and would not have resulted in the loss of two sets of donor organs.

[ivylass]

Originally posted by syncrolecyne
Personally, I think it's Mexico's shame that Jesica was probably compelled to go to the United States for this transplant when Mexico indeed has the technology and resources to do this - just not the will to make life better for the majority of its citizens.



syncrolecyne, could you explain further? Is there no such thing as health insurance in Mexico?

[ivylass]

Originally posted by Eva Luna
Oh, and one more thought; donor organs come from anyone who donates an organ upon dying in the U.S.; I'm sure some non-citizens end up donating organs into the U.S. pool. I bet some donor organs even come from people not legally present in the U.S.

I thought the hospital needed permission before organs could be harvested. How would they get that from an illegal alien?

[istara]

The thing about transplants like this is that they are hugely risky, and as far as I can work out, every one carried out is yet another major learning opportunity for medicine.

So anyone undergoing these procedures is as much *giving* something to medicine, as they are taking from it.

[Eva Luna]

Originally posted by ivylass
I thought the hospital needed permission before organs could be harvested. How would they get that from an illegal alien?

I assume the same way they get it from anyone else. I can't imagine any decent-sized hospital, especially one in an urban area, without Spanish-speaking staff and/or access to translators and interpreters.

Besides, many people illegally present in the U.S. have relatives, and potentially next of kin, who are U.S. citizens or permanent residents. Having a relative who is legal isn't always enough to give a person a basis for permanent residence, and even if the family relationship qualifies, it takes time to jump through INS' hoops. Quite a number of "illegal aliens" are waitiing for INS approvals that would make them lega.

[Bob55]

Update: Sadly the young girl died (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49328-2003Feb22.html). On top of that the parents didn't donate any of her organs, not even the heart/lungs she received.

[Eva Luna]

Would her organs have been of any use to anyone at this point? I imagine they've been through quite a lot, and I imagine there's a limit to how much stress one can put organs through.

Any medical folks care to comment?

[Polycarp]

The SF Chronicle story was the first I'd heard of any "illegal alien" status for Jesica, who lived about 15 miles from me. (I never met her.)

The county I live in took her to their hearts, and started up a program akin to Habitat for Humanity where houses built with donated lumber and materials were sold in the high real estate market around here to raise money for critically ill children -- called the Jesica's House Program. Here's a website (http://www.4jhc.org/housepicgallery.html) on one of the houses. Here's Jesica making handprints (http://www.startribune.com/images/embed/3665779_55359.html) in the patio of the first Jesica's House, located about ten miles northeast of us and about eight miles northwest of Tygr and Jkayla.

I'd be extremely surprised to find that someone had not arranged for a "compassionate visa" for the kid and her mother, given the circumstances.

[fixed links --Gaudere]

[Governor Quinn]

Speaking as the grandson of an organ donor, I don't believe that they allow you to re-use donated organs.

(If they did, someone would have come around to take back Mickey Mantle's replacement liver.)

[Duckster]

A child in a foreign country is very ill and needs medical care in the United States. Can I bring this child to the US for treatment?

Families sometimes contact us to ask how they can bring a child to the US for needed medical treatment or how they can adopt a foreign-born child who is here in the US for temporary medical care.

There are non-profit organizations which make arrangements to bring children to the United States for medical treatment. These organizations make arrangements for the child's medical treatment with physicians and hospitals as well as for volunteer families who care for the children during their treatment. These organizations also arrange for the child's travel to the United States and the issuance of a medical visa to allow the child to enter the US for treatment, not for adoption.

Families who hope to adopt children who are in the United States on a medical visa should realize that US immigration law requires the child to return to his or her homeland. If the child is legally free for adoption according to the laws in the foreign country, the family can then begin adoption proceedings there according to the laws of that country. The prospective adoptive family must comply with the adoption laws of their State of residence, US immigration law, and the laws of the foreign country. Families should check to ensure that the child meets the "orphan definition" criteria in US immigration law so that they do not proceed with an adoption in the foreign country, only to find out that the child does not qualify for the issuance of a an orphan visa. Source: http://www.calib.com/naic/faqs/eight.cfmA person seeking Medical Treatment in USA can apply for Visitor Visa(B2 Visa) for treatment purpose. The requirement for this is same as for Visitor Visa. Please refer Details on the requirements visitor visa requirements.

In addition to these following must be produced:

a)A valid statement/letter from a doctor or institution concerning proposed medical treatment

b) Written confirmation from the medical facility that arrangements have been completed for treatment and where and from whom treatment will be received;
c) An estimate in writing from the facility or physician of how much the proposed treatment is likely to cost;
d) Proof that financial arrangements for payment of estimated expenses have been made;
e) A physician's statement estimating the length of time required for the treatment. Source: http://www.path2usa.com/VisitorVisa_Medical.htm

In reviewing various US Embassy sites around the world, the information above appears accurate.

[Hermann Cheruscan]

Well, at least surely her liver, kidneys, and corneas could be donated, if not the heart and lungs. And what about skin, there a dozens of people in RI who desperately need skin transplants.

Whats up with the parents refusing to donate? You would think they would be eager to. I must say that the parents decision not to donate are making a lot of people say "See, look, gimme gimme gimme"

[Ring]

How many young children in the world need organ transplants to stay alive? Should we put them all on the waiting list? If not why not? They’re all young children aren’t they?

[Ring]

Originally posted by Ring
How many young children in the world need organ transplants to stay alive? Should we put them all on the waiting list? If not why not? They’re all young children aren’t they?

Just to clarify -- I really don’t know how to answer those questions. Where do we draw the line? Children are children, people are people, and yet we certainly can’t be the world’s medical provider of last resort.

[JRDelirious]

And, BTW in referencde to some comments above, may I point out, "non-citizen" IS NOT THE SAME AS "illegal alien". For the purposes of that 5%, or for the donors placing organs into the availability pool.

I mean, really... As mentioned before, had the initial transplant gone right, we would never even have heard of it. I'm going to presume, until somebody produces actual evidence, that her immigration situation was within the bounds of normalcy.

In any case, with organ donations it should be a simple matter of precedence of the greater need. Have we really grown so resentful and begrudging??

BTW, the mistake may be jeopardizing someone else's life -- whoever could have been the right recipient of the original organs did not get them!

[JRDelirious]

Well, Ringo, it's not a "universal provider" situation, it's an "open MARKET" situation. Since in the USA medical care is allocated on the basis of ability to afford, rather than by state-mandated rationing, anyone who can afford to get treatment at a US hospital (and get the proper visas to be here) will be taken care of. It's not like just anyone can show up on ourt shore and demand extraordinary treatments "just because."

[JRDelirious]

Er, sorry, that should have read Ring. Darn fingers...

[pkbites]

Originally posted by X~Slayer(ALE)
Any person who thinks its right to deny a life saving operation to a child just because she happens to have born in the wrong country need to have their citizenship revoked.



So now we're revoking citizenships based on politcal positions and what someone thinks? Mr. Ashcroft....is that you?

[Darwin's Finch]

Originally posted by JRDelirious
I mean, really... As mentioned before, had the initial transplant gone right, we would never even have heard of it. I'm going to presume, until somebody produces actual evidence, that her immigration situation was within the bounds of normalcy.

Not that I have an opinion one way or the other, but there is this, from a Yahoo! news story (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=514&e=2&cid=514&u=/ap/20030223/ap_on_he_me/transplant_error):

Relatives have said her family paid a smuggler to bring them from their small town near Guadalajara, Mexico, to the United States so she could get medical care.

Presumably, the services of a smuggler would not have been required had her immigration been on the level. Assuming, of course, that the relatives are telling the truth.

[Polycarp]

Okay, let's assume for the sake of argument that this is the truth -- that a woman, knowing her daughter is dying of a rare heart condition, brings her to the U.S. for medical care, and doesn't play by the rules in bringing her across the border.

So that makes her an illegal alien at the moment she crosses the border.

Now, considering we have this guy who is willing to help finance a major medical procedure for her -- do you really think he's not going to hire a good lawyer to regularize her status into that of a legal resident alien? In a state where nearly 15% of the population was born in Mexico, or to parents who were? Where problems with visas and such are a near-daily occurrence?

And just how many children who need heart transplants do you think are trying to get into this country, anyway? I haven't seen any flames of the INS for turning away 100,000 critically ill children at one fell swoop. If there's five a year who fit the situation of Jesica, I'll be quite surprised.

[syncrolecyne]

Originally posted by ivylass
syncrolecyne, could you explain further? Is there no such thing as health insurance in Mexico?

I am not sure if I understand. You mean government health coverage? Yes, there is a system of public health care for those who cannot afford private care, but the waiting time for basic procedures (much less a complex operation that admittedly has been performed only a few times) is quite long. It is geared more toward essential health and emergency care.

http://www.healthaffairs.org/freecontent/v21n3/s8.htm