Why can't people just use Christ???

[counterattackii]

I think it is rather ignorant to leave Christ out of Christmas, and using X-mas instead. Are people so afraid of pissing someone off with the name of the holiday that it was STARTED FOR having Christ in it? Granted, in general Christmas means Santa Claus, but still.... has Separation from Church and State really gone that far? I find it ridiculous...

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Ignorance isn't bliss. It is just another way of shooting yourself in the foot.

[muffinman]

I have to agree with you... Ignorance is not bliss, cuz you don't seem to be very happy in that state.

Hey... Don't go crazy, I'm just playin around!

X-mas as a shortened version for Christmas originated in the early church.originated with early Greek Christians. X is the first letter of the Greek word for Christ: Xristos. Later, the word X-MAS came to mean "Christ's Mass" Besides... how you write the word is not that big a deal. There are too many real problems in the world to give something like this a second thought.

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I heard a knock at the door of my heart, but it was a vacuum cleaner salesman!

[handy]

Xmas is the original form & it's most excellent. Christmas is the modern form & it has a second definition [or used to]:
Ki•riti•mati \ke-"ris-mes—sic\ or formerly Christ•mas \"kris-mes\
island (atoll) in the Line Islands; largest atoll in the Pacific area 234 sq mi (608 sq km), pop 674

(C)1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster, Incorporated. All rights reserved.

[neuro-trash grrrl]

"Why can't people just use Christ???"

...for all your stain-removal needs!

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"That's entertainment!" —Vlad the Impaler

[Elmer J. Fudd]

I use Christ every morning. Hey Ma, just one cavity!

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Elmer J. Fudd,
Millionaire.
I own a mansion and a yacht.

[OpalCat]

I write xmas because a) it is shorter and b) I'm not a Christian and I'd rather not use Christian words in a holiday if I don't have to. To me xmas is a holiday for being nice to everyone, thinking of those less fortunate than yourself, and giving presents. In our house, Christ has no part in it and I don't want him to.

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--
Teeming Millions: http://fathom.org/teemingmillions
"Meat flaps, yellow!" - DrainBead, naked co-ed Twister chat
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com (http://www.opalcat.com)

[Spiritus Mundi]

I tried to use Christ, but it gave me a rash and I decided to think for myself instead.

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The best lack all conviction
The worst are full of passionate intensity.

[SanibelMan]

Christ isn't looking forward to his next birthday (http://www.theonion.com/onion3544/jesus_birthday.html), appearently.

But you can now try his salvation in a gel (http://www.cbsradio.com/MP3/salgel.mp3) form! (MP3 Link) Now available in Razzle-Dazzleberry!

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SanibelMan - My Homepage (http://members.macconnect.com/~jonkleinow/)
I could be doing something, but... why?

[SanibelMan]

(grumble)

Let's try that again:

Christ isn't too happy about his upcoming birthday: http://www.theonion.com/onion3544/jesus_birthday.html

But his salvation does now come in gel form!: http://www.cbsradio.com/mp3/salgel.mp3

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SanibelMan - My Homepage (http://members.macconnect.com/~jonkleinow/)
I could be doing something, but... why?

[GuanoLad]

Anyway, as we all know, Christmas was stolen by the Christians. It was perfectly happy being a pagan ceremony for so many other peoples, like Saturnalia, and MidWinter's Festival, and stuff like that.

I'd prefer to think of Christmas as a family occasion, when you gather together and have a good time, eat loads of stuff, and give gifts to the little kids (if that's your thing). Outside of that, it sucks.

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-PIGEONMAN-
Hero For A New Millennium!

The Legend Of PigeonMan (http://www.hotkey.net.au/~guanolad/pigeonman/) - updates every Wed & Sat. If I can be bothered.

[lvick]

For the same reason some people can't use science fiction; they can't suspend disbelief.


Ho Ho Ho,
Larry

[Koxinga]

Sung to the tune of the "Battle Hymn of the Republic":

Jesus does his shopping at the Johnson Grocery Store,

Jesus does his shopping at the Johnson Grocery Store,

Jesus does his shopping at the Johnson Grocery Store . . .


Jesus Saves! Jesus Saves! Jesus Saves!


DHR

[Guy Propski]

I use Xmas for the same reason I use IIRC, WAG, and FYI--it's shorter.

Besides, do you honestly think saying Xmas instead of Christmas is going to cause people to forget who the holiday is about? Like, maybe it's really Malcolm X's birthday we're celebrating?

[pldennison]

I think it is rather ignorant to leave Christ out of Christmas, and using X-mas instead.

Blame the early Christians. They started it.

Are people so afraid of pissing someone off with the name of the holiday that it was
STARTED FOR having Christ in it?

Are people so stupid that they don't realize that "X" is not the English letter "x," but the Greek character "chi," corresponding to the "Ch-" sound? Do they know they're ranting over something started by Christians? (P.S.-by "people" I mean you, counterattackii.)

Granted, in general Christmas means Santa Claus,
but still.... has Separation from Church and State really gone that far?

What the hell does "Separation from Church and State" have to do with it? Is there some law mandating use of "Xmas"?

I find it
ridiculous...

That's apparently because you aren't real bright.

[Enright3]

Shouldn't this be in Great Debates?

Enright3

_______________
Jesus is coming.
Everybody look busy!

[Koxinga]

Like, maybe it's really Malcolm X's birthday we're celebrating?

Are you referring to Malcolm the Tenth?

DHR

[TheNerd]

Well, I usually write "christmas", because it's longer, seems more correct, and I like big words. :)
But as an athiest, I celebrate only the materialistic aspects of the holiday, and when I feel a need to emphasize that, I'll write Xmas.

And yes, I do celebrate the materialistic nature of the shopping frenzy, the spending of hard-earned money on gifts. To me, xmas is all about coming down to the tree in the morning and opening up those gifts.

[GOD]

Xmas should only be used by adults.
Gmas and PGmas are appropriate for kids, while Rmas may be used by kids if accompanied by a parent or guardian.

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

I typically use "Xmas" simply because it's a lot shorter than the proper name of the holiday: Jesus H. Christmas

[Persephone]

God, you really need to post more often. Every time you do, you make me laugh. But I suppose that's what a good God is supposed to do, isn't it?

BTW, I never knew that the X in Xmas was actually a Greek thing, and wasn't simply a removal of Christ from the word Christmas. Pat yourselves on the back--you've eradicated a little ignorance! Thanks!

[moriah]

Cristi: BTW, I never knew that the X in Xmas was actually a Greek thing, and wasn't simply a removal of Christ from the word Christmas. Pat yourselves on the back--you've eradicated a little ignorance! Thanks!

May we now call you Xi?

Peace.
------------
"Put the 'Crist' back in 'Cristi'!"

[moriah]

OpalCat posted: I write xmas because a) it is shorter and b) I'm not a Christian and I'd rather not use Christian words in a holiday if I don't have to. To me xmas is a holiday for being nice to everyone, thinking of those less fortunate than yourself, and giving presents. In our house, Christ has no part in it and I don't want him to.

Sorry Opalcat, but according to Jesus...

Mt 25:31-40 -- "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.' Then the righteous will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?' And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.'

In other words, because you practice compassion for those in need, Christ is present in your holiday and you get to go to Christian heaven, and you are celebrating Xmas in the true Christian spirit (maybe even more so than many Christians). Congratulations!

Peace.

[Persephone]

May we now call you Xi?

Hey! I like that! But tell me if it has any strange meanings before you do, okay? My Greek is obviously a little rusty.

[elelle]

Well, I got a herd of goats here, who I love and treat with compassion, and if we're Left out, I don't get it? Splain, please?

[Demo]

elelle, it didn't say where the goats went.

The sheep got the kingdom, yeah, but the goats got to PAR-TAY!

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"Teaching without words and work without doing are understood by very few."
-Tao Te Ching

[neuro-trash grrrl]

I now find myself in the unusual position of correcting God.

I realize you must be awfully busy this time of year, but you must realize that they're calling it "NC-17mas" these days...

ZOT!!!

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"That's entertainment!" —Vlad the Impaler

[pldennison]

See that, Opal? You get to be Christian even when you don't want to! How conveeeeenient.

[WIGGUM]

My
Greek is obviously a little rusty.

Maybe you should use a little Greece. :)

[Atrael]

<laughing so hard I'm crying>....Very good shot Wiggum.......lol :)

[PurpleCrackwhore]

I look forward to this time of year the most because no matter where I am, there is always some arrogant bible quoting Christian who asks this same question, only to learn that the X in Xmas symbolizes his/her beloved God and they finally have to admit that maybe...just maybe... they don't know everything there is to know about their own religion. I recommend a class in Religious Symbolism for you counterattackii...it may open your eyes to alot of things about your chosen religion.

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"Only when he no longer knows what he is doing, does the painter do good
things." --Edgar Degas

[counterattackii]

I did not know that that's what the X is for.
Excuse me, pldennison, if I am not on the same intellectual level with YOUR infinite wisdom. *rolls eyes* It is not my fault that my parents always told me that. *Runs off to do battle with parental units....*

Wash, rinse, maim.

[OpalCat]

In other words, because you practice compassion for those in need, Christ is present in your holiday and you get to go to Christian heaven, and you are celebrating Xmas in the true Christian spirit (maybe even more so than many Christians). Congratulations!


Don't be an idiot.
Anyway, I'm religious and believe in a god etc, but I don't label my god "Jesus" or his long bearded, robed dad.


Jesus is credited with a lot of good stuff in the NT, I've never doubted that. However, Christianity as a whole reflects veeeeery little of that.


I did not know that that's what the X is for. Excuse me, pldennison, if I am not on the same intellectual level with YOUR infinite wisdom. *rolls eyes* It is not my fault that my parents always told me that. *Runs off to do battle with parental units....*


I find this particularly amusing given the use of the word "ignornant" in the OP...


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--
Teeming Millions: http://fathom.org/teemingmillions
"Meat flaps, yellow!" - DrainBead, naked co-ed Twister chat
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com (http://www.opalcat.com)

[counterattackii]

I admit it - I was ignorant on this topic. Next time- a little research prior to posting. I apologize, and now I am off to get gauze for my foot... *ow*...

Wash, rinse, maim. (well, maybe not the last one...)

[sunbear]

So if Christmas is to celebrate the birth of Christ, why does the year start several days later?
The church calendar always was goofy to me. Christ is born, then there's Carneval etc etc and Easter.End of Christ. What do you do with the rest of the year? All sorts of useless saint days.

[Jophiel]

I will admit though that non-Christians celebrating Christmas but "not wanting to bring Jesus into it" struck me as a little odd and insulting.

A lot like me saying "I think I'll observe Hannukah this year. Oh, I don't believe in the Jewish junk -- I just like the idea of eight days of gifts."

If you want a nice non-denominational reason to put up a tree and give out Pokémon dolls, make a holiday out of the Solstice. And don't bother me with the "it used to be a pagan holiday" junk. Thayt's not the issue. Christmas is a Christian holiday. If you want to observe pagan holidays, knock yourself out. Just call them what they are.

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"I guess one person can make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn't."

[Gaudere]

Heh. I didn't know that I could tweak Christians by celebrating Christmas. Well, this Sunday, me and my agnostic/atheist/deist/Hindu side of the family are going to celebrate Christmas early, and we are going to open Christmas presents and drink wine and have a fine old time and not mention Jesus at all. Holidays change; you mentioned yourself that it was once Mithrasmas, then Christmas, and now it is still called Christmas but it is a secular holiday for many non-Christians. I don't see any reason to make up a new holiday when I can use one that already suits me just fine. If non-Jews in a predominately Jewish country had a history of celebrating Hannukah, I wouldn't worry about that either. Christmas has been changed from a wholly religious holiday to one that can be secular as well, and I don't see any reason to turn back the clock.

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"Happiness is nonetheless true happiness because it must come to an end, nor do thought and love lose their value because they are not everlasting."
- Bertrand Russell

[Jophiel]

Actually, it doesn't bother me at all what anyone does with it. I was just making a point. Namely, to use my own example, that it would seem so un-PC to bastardize Hannukah into a secular holiday, but since Christians are the majority, no one really cares if they get their holiday taken over. On the other hand, if the Christians cared that much, they'd of tried harder to make Christmas more.. well.. Christian.

I guess it's what you make of it.

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"I guess one person can make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn't."

[evilbeth]

Why can't people just use "Happy Holidays?"

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The margarine of evil

[Gaudere]

I don't think it is so much that secular sorts "stole" Christmas as it is that there were so many Christians around that it was more circumspect even for people who did not believe to celebrate the holiday. Christianity secularized Christmas simply by making it "weird" (or suspicious, "anti-Christian", evilly-atheistical or heretical) to *not* celebrate it. If this was a predominately Jewish country, and we all got 8 days off of work for Hannukah and were bombarded with Hannukah symbols and songs since before Thanksgiving, I'd bet secular sorts would celebrate Hannukah too. Frankly, I'm not about to turn down a holiday where people try to be nicer and I get to give and receive gifts (and drink and party with friends and family).

[Little Nemo]

OpalCat were you the poster on the AOL board who had the sig line "I don't have any problems with Jesus. It's his fan club I worry about."?

[Rich Hall]

Jophiel: Even for the average Christian ("well I don't know if there is a God, but I'm hoping there is one.") Christmas and the routine is 1. Buying presents 2. Santa myth 3. small prayer at Christmas dinner. 4. attend church for feel good experience (no guilt trip to be inserted into sermon). 5. Watch tv and pretend to work the days until New Year. 6. watch tv through new year.

I've read many places where Jesus' birth was supposedly September,the Jewish New Year. Its just celebrated in December because it's a good way to break up the awful cold weather dreariness,and the farmers had extra food from the harvest! Wish they had a celbration like that in January!

I've read many places where Jesus' birth was supposedly September,the Jewish New Year. Its just celebrated in December because it's a good way to break up the awful cold weather dreariness,and the farmers had extra food from the harvest! Wish they had a celbration like that in January!

[matt_mcl]

I don't know, I just can't get used to hymns playing in bookstore muzak systems. Let's get a little bit of Wyrd Sisters here, folks. A little Yule carol. Yeah... :)

Anyway, ubiquitous Xmas celebrations really brown me off. How would all the Christians feel if everyone got whipped up into a furor over Hanukkah every year? But since it currently seems to be several different holidays (Christmas, Hanukkah, Yule, ...help me out here!) arranged around the same astronomical event, let's call it what it is. Solstice. (I'm happy to note that most schools now call them Winter Break and Spring Break rather than Christmas and Easter breaks.)

Now I have to go. I'm working over my midwinter holidays. :)

[OpalCat]

Nope, I never had that sig.

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--
Teeming Millions: http://fathom.org/teemingmillions
"Meat flaps, yellow!" - DrainBead, naked co-ed Twister chat
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com (http://www.opalcat.com)

[Kat]

If this was a predominately Jewish country, and we all got 8 days off of work for Hannukah and were bombarded with Hannukah symbols and songs since before Thanksgiving, I'd bet secular sorts would celebrate Hannukah too.

I imagine if the US were historically a predominantly Jewish country, Hannukah might get less attention than it does now. From what I gather, Hannukah is a lesser holiday that got "upgraded" due to its proximity to Christmas. What's the SD on that?

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Your Official Cat Goddess since 10/20/99.

"I get along well with everybody." --I.M.F.

[Persephone]

Kat, what you just said pretty much is the SD. My mom's SO is Jewish, and he told me pretty much the same thing.

[Gaudere]

You're right; we'd probably have big Passover parties. But I did say if Hannukah *were* a big deal, we (secular sorts) would celebrate it. (<--weaseling out of too-hasty post) Incidentally, I know of some Jews who don't like that Hannukah got "bumped up" simply because it's approximately the same time as Christmas.

[Little Nemo]

So anyone up for a Kwanzaa party?