Ask the emergency vet tech [Archive] - Straight Dope Message Board

CrazyCatLady

03-12-2003, 03:14 AM

Drugs can vary widely in pricing from the distributor (generic vs. name-brand, discounts for buying in bulk, different dosages, etc.) and sometimes it costs a lot more for vets to get a product in their door than what the store down the street sells it for. That's why our clinic stopped carrying Iams food when grocery stores and Walmart started selling it. With the bulk discounts they were getting, they could make a profit selling it for below our cost.

Vets also have a dispensing fee they put on all prescriptions. This covers the cost of the vial and label, the time a technician spent filling the script and updating the record and doing client education, time spent reordering medications, etc. This varies from clinic to clinic and region to region, but it's generally in the $5-$10 range.

Another possibillity is that your vet charges more for medications so they don't have to charge as much for exams, vaccines, shots, and surgeries. It has to do with how clients tend to perceive value, and it tends to lead not only to increased client satisfaction, but greater company profits.

It sounds crazy, but Veterinary Economics (or maybe it was another journal) did an interesting article about it, showing that people were more willing to pay $20 per vaccine (3 vaccines in an annual check-up) than to pay $30 for an exam and $10/vaccine. The total is still $60, but in the first scenario, they're getting a free exam! Your friend's vet may have that sort of pricing system in place.

Human and veterinary drugs are indeed often the exact same thing (my old boss used to let us fill our own antibiotic prescriptions at work). However, the dosage is often very different, and that's something you have to check very, very carefully. You also have to watch for other active ingredients. Also, some tablets are not supposed to be split or crushed, so you might not be able to safely cut down the human pills. (Veterinary drugs are often non-coated for just this reason.) If this is something the dog will be on long-term, it's worth asking the vet about next visit.

catnoe

03-12-2003, 06:33 AM

I have a black tortoise-shell cat. On one of her back feet the pad is swollen.I noticed it about a year ago but for all I know it's always been that way. It does not cause her any problems, she doesn't limp or pick at it, when I touch it she yanks her foot back but she does that if I touch any of her paws. What's the deal with her foot?
One of my sisters used to work for a vet, she said it's just something some cats have but a second opinion never hurts.

teleute12

03-12-2003, 07:12 AM

I seem to have a pair of Jack Sprat cats - one's verrry skinny, and the other has an amazing belly on her. This is about the skinny one (although if you have any suggestions as to how to keep the fat one from being so fat, I'd like to hear them).

This might be a bit beyond your knowlegde, but - will cats not eat if they're upset/lonely? Because it seems that she's lost a bit more weight since I left home for college. What can my parents do to make her happier? And part B of the question, is that sometimes she'll start wheezing - like she's got something up her nose or something. She's done this for years, and I've noticed that sometimes she'll start to purr, stop to wheeze, and then resume purring and loving. Could this be allergies? Feline asthma? The vet we take her to thinks it's hairballs or something, but he's never heard it. Any thoughts?

mishaa

03-12-2003, 07:23 AM

Am I a total moron for taking my dog to the vet?

Maguire is 9 months old. I *thought* he had lost all of his puppy teeth. The other night, he was bleeding from the mouth, and it looked like he broke a tooth. Took him in, turned out it was another puppy tooth. Vet removed it and presented it to me - voila!

All of his teeth *look* like the big permanent ones, and I have quite a few of his puppy teeth saved......

So, did the vet and techs laugh at me after I left?

Dogzilla

03-12-2003, 08:01 AM

Do you have any secret vet tech tricks for preventing corophragia (poo eating)? Is it a problem for the dog, or should I just ignore it, since it apparently only grosses me out? (I've tried Adolph's meat tenderizer, cottage cheese, a product called Deter -- so far nothing works. He LOVES poo. I think he's related to Mr. Hanky.)

How 'bout gas? Anything I can give Mr. Stinky for that? (Preferably something OTC, or found in pet store.)

TeleTronOne

03-12-2003, 08:39 AM

I've often thought about getting into Veterinary Medicine, with a Feline Specialty (preferably). But the one thing that's always stopped me dead in my tracks is that I just don't think I could deal with having to euthanize an animal, even if it was ultimately for the best.

My question is just how often does this situation occur? Or do you find yourself mainly doing checkups, shots, etc?

Eve

03-12-2003, 09:00 AM

I asked my vet if I can have my cats cremated through them when they die—they said yes, they deal with a crematory, and if I want a "private cremation," they can arrange that, for more money, and I'll get my cats' ashes back. Hmmmm. Would I really get my cats' ashes back, or half of a poodle and a cigarette butt? Not that I'm suspicious . . .

DeVena

03-12-2003, 09:25 AM

We have 4 cats (and 1 sad, dejected dog who can't understand why the cats don't like her)

I noticed, after taking the youngest in for her first round of shots last year, that she had a lump where the injection was. I assumed it would go away but it hasn't. Also the other cats have similar lumps on their hind flanks. Is this norma.?

CRorex

03-12-2003, 10:15 AM

I've always wondered about squeeze cages. I know what you do with them once you get the animal in there.

But how in the heck do you get the animal in the squeeze cage in the first place?

I keep picturing a baboon being really upset when you force him into the squeeze cage... less so when you knock him out with an injection.

I'd ask the vet techs at work... but well... They're probably diseased

Stephi

03-12-2003, 10:28 AM

Dear CrazyCatLady

I'm worried about my cat vomitting. A friend of mine said it's a way to get rid of excess hair in her stomach, but I'm sceptical. It's not all the time, it's once a week maybe. Is this normal?

Hello Again

03-12-2003, 10:52 AM

I am not a vet, but I have a lot of vet tech friends. Also, I just had my cats at the vet last week.

I asked about their habitual vomiting (not just hairballs* but also undigested food). My vet who has been practicing for like 30 years said, in his experience, about 25% of his clients complain of habitual vomiting in their cats. Most often, the vomiting does not seem to have a cause that he can find. Sometimes a change of diet is helpful (my cats improved somewhat after switching to a "hairball control" formula). Mention it to your vet the next time they are in, but he may not find anything amiss.

*A hairball looks like a long clump of fur (usually about the color your cat is. ) If your cat is brown it might look like a poop.

Stephi

03-12-2003, 10:58 AM

Esme, my cat, is grey. And it doesn't look like there's a lot of hair in the vomit, which is why I'm a little worried. Otherwise, she's a perfectly healthy cat.

zev_steinhardt

03-12-2003, 11:11 AM

For a number of years, we've had hamsters in the house. One of our earlier hamsters turned up ill one Saturday night. He was lying down in his cage, with labored breathing. Even though my wife and I are not vets, we had a fairly strong feeling that he wouldn't last through the night.

Conisering that it was well past 11:00 in the evening (again, on a Saturday night), we were left in a quandry about what to do. We opened the phone book and called a place that looked like they were open 24 hours. They referred us to a vet hospital in Manhattan. We could have brought the hamster in and had him seen. Of course, there was guarantee for a recovery. Plus the fact that we would have been charged well over $200 to have him seen.

Part of the reason we do not have a dog is because at the time, we could not afford a dog. Even if we got the dog for free from a shelter, between vet visits, vaccinations, etc., the cost of caring for the pet would have exceeded what we could have afforded to spend on it. However, when we started with hamsters, we never even considered the possibility that we could spend over $200 on a vet visit. In the end (in a decision that I still feel *very* bad about to this day), we concluded that we did not have the money to spend on the hamster and we chose to simply make him as comfortable as possible in his cage. By morning he was gone.

I'm not telling this story over in order to gain sympathy, or to have people debate whether or not I was cold-hearted, cheap and selfish.

My question, very simply is, do people really bring $10 hamsters to the vets for emergency visits such as this (and as such, we should have brought him in), or have you never really heard of such a thing and I've been feeling guilty for all these years for nothing?

Zev Steinhardt

Velma

03-12-2003, 11:18 AM

A friend of mine had a dog that got in a fight with a porcupine. The dog ended up with quills in its face. After removing them, the fur on his face where the quills were turned gray. He also started to become aggressive towards people when he had never been aggressive before, to the point where he bit their child and had to be put down. Have you ever seen anything like this from a porcupine sting before? Do you know if there is something in the quills that could have caused this (aggression or the gray fur), or do you think he became aggressive because he was frightened from the encounter?

Also, do you have any general tips for us pet owners about when to call a vet if there is a problem, and how to behave once we get there (I'm sure you have lots of stories about pet owners!)

Thanks!

CrazyCatLady

03-12-2003, 11:51 AM

Oh, my, I go to sleep for a few hours and look what happens. Okay, folks, no pushing and shoving. Just wait your turn, I promise I'll get around to everyone.

Catnoe, she could have some sort of chronic inflammation, or it could be some sort of odd little genetic abberration. I've never seen that before, but I freely admit I tend to pay more attention to the sharp body parts, and those which are emitting bodily fluids. If it's normal for her, though, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

tele: Hell, yes, cats and dogs will stop eating when they're lonely, upset, or anxious. It's also possible that she has an underlying metabolic disorder like kidney disease, or maybe bad teeth. I'd have her looked at to rule out medical stuff first. As for the wheezing thing, I'd have to hear it before I could even venture a WAG. It also sounds like Fatty needs some diet cat food, and a strictly monitored amount of it. No snacks, no generous measurings, no "just a few kernels to hush him up." Your vet can set you up.

mishaa: No, you're not a moron. The staff might possibly have snickered a little, but I can guarantee that they like and respect you a hell of a lot more than if you'd just let your dog bleed for a while. Besides, we all recognize that it's a lot easier to see what's going on in a dog's mouth when you have trained staff to restrain him and extra lighting to point down his throat.

lachesis

03-12-2003, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Stephi
Dear CrazyCatLady

I'm worried about my cat vomitting. A friend of mine said it's a way to get rid of excess hair in her stomach, but I'm sceptical. It's not all the time, it's once a week maybe. Is this normal?

if the vomiting is worrisome but the vet seems to think nothing is amiss, try doing some monitoring on your own. possible things to consider:

* does the cat routinely throw up after eating a large quantity of food? (like right after being served a dish of canned food.) chances are, it could be triggered by simple overeating. this is not an uncommon reaction (although cats are supposedly not generally inclined to gulp down foods just because they're there, as a dog will). you can try reducing the amount of food presented, or split the amount into separate feedings.
* does the cat eat only one kind of food (dry, moist kibble, canned)? perhaps providing a variety will help. a dish of dry food during the day, a helping of canned food at breakfast or dinner time, maybe some moist kibble as another meal. sometimes cats don't chew dry food properly, and i suspect the large pieces don't get digested easily. (examining the evidence will give you a pretty good idea of how it's going in.) having a variety may cut down on the urge to "swallow and get it over with".
* how forceful is the vomiting episode? there's a biiig difference between the normal cat "urk" and projectile vomiting. (i'm pretty sure you'll know it if you see it.) overly forceful expulsion could be a sign of internal problems, which definitely rate a much more thorough checkup from the vet.
* does the cat have several episodes in one day? this could be a hairball-related sign sometimes. occasionally it doesn't want to leave without heavy persuasion. the final determinant, of course, would be the furry lozenge if and when it appeared.

i don't want to upset you unnecessarily, but i also had a cat who had frequent episodes of vomiting. i also mentioned it constantly to the vet, but never got much reaction. the cat was small to begin with, and never what you'd call plump. what seemed more annoying, though, was the fact that she'd eat eat eat, get sick, then go back and try to eat again. i got around that by switching to feeding her a small portion every hour or so, but she wasn't particularly thriving. finally, the poor little thing was starting to look much too scrawny. took her to the vet, they started heavy-duty testing and kept her for treatment. she went downhill very quickly. i declined to have her autopsied when it was over, but the general feeling was that she probably had some internal problems, possibly a tumor. (cancer seemed to run through her littermates. a half-sister lost half an ear to it before she died.) i'm always going to feel bad that earlier in the whole process i didn't stand there and yell and scream until they REALLY checked it out, when perhaps something might still have been done to catch and treat whatever was bothering her. (even though there's a possibility that absolutely nothing could have been done differently. the old "what ifs"...)

anyway, the long and short of it is: do your homework, gather concrete evidence, rule out possibilities, and if things still seem worrisome, then do whatever you need to in order to set your mind at rest.

lachesis
i still miss you, Canny

Stephi

03-12-2003, 12:23 PM

I asked the vet about it, and he said it was perfectly normal.

She tends to throw up right after eating, she'll throw up, and head straight back to her food bowl.

She only gets dry food.

She is also a fairly thin cat, but the vet said she's not under weight. She was 6.8 pounds at her last visit. She's two years old.

CrazyCatLady

03-12-2003, 12:37 PM

Dogzilla[b]: There was a thread about coprophagia just recently, and I gave most of the advice I had there. You might try different medications like ForBid, but I think your best bet is just limiting his acceess. The coprophagia may be related to his gas problems, as they can pick up all sorts of coliform bacteria and such. If he's eating other dogs' poop, he's at risk for picking up worms or viruses they may have, most notably parvo and hookworms. Try slowly changing him over to another sort of food, and see if that helps either problem.

[b]TeleTron, I'm going to skip you for a moment and give you your own special euthanasia post. It's a big topic, and I don't want to overtax the hamsters.

Eve: If your vet trusts this place enough to put his/her professional reputation on the line by using them, they're on the level. Every pet crematorium I've ever dealt with has gone to extraordinary lengths to make sure that owners get only their own pet's remains back. I would trust these folks at least as far as I would a human crematorium or funereal home, and probably a lot further.

DeVena: A little bit of inflammatory reaction in the injection site is pretty common, and it usually does go away. It's probably no big deal, but I'd mention it to the vet next visit so that it can be monitored every time you go in. Some research has suggested a possible link between repeated injections in a certain area and some types of tumor, but I'm not sure I buy it.

CRorex: I'm not sure what a squeeze cage is. If you can explain the term, I might be able to answer your question.

Stephi: Your cat could have hairballs in the stomach that aren't coming up, but instead continuing to irritate the stomach. She could also have some sort of virus or bacterial infection, or a physical abnormality of the digestive tract. I'd take her in and have her checked out.

Zev: Don't beat yourself up over it. Almost no one springs for much in the way of vet care for hamsters. Either they can't afford it, or they figure they could buy several new hamsters with that money, or whatever. It's hard when money starts coming into the picture, but it's a reality of life that you can't ignore. If you ever find yourself in that sort of situation again, though, a lot of emergency clinics will do humane euthanasia for free or a minimal charge. They don't do an exam or anything, just put the animal down so it doesn't suffer needlessly.

Velma: I don't know anything about porcupine attacks, so I'm not even venturing a WAG. A general rule of thumb, though, is that if you'd call your doctor for those symptoms in yourself, then for the love of God call the vet. (You just don't want to know. You really don't.)

CrazyCatLady

03-12-2003, 01:10 PM

Okay, now for the promised euthanasia post.

Euthanasia is the blessing and the curse of veterinary medicine. It's the final gift of love and respect and compassion we can give a suffering animal, and it's one of the hardest parts of the job. It gets easier, but it never gets easy. Never. You might develop the ability to joke about it, but it's still not easy. The jokes just keep you from going crazy.

It's like a human doctor losing a patient. The grief of the family, the frustration of not being able to do anything, having to be the one bringing up practical matters like disposal of the remains, it's all there. In some ways, though, it's even worse. Sometimes, you know you could pull this one through, if the owner only had the money to pay for treatment. Human doctors rarely if ever have to hold a patient in their arms during death.

As for how common it is, it depends on the sort of practice. In the specialty/emergency practice I'm in now, it's pretty common. By the very nature of the practice, a lot of our patients are in really bad shape when they get to us, and we put a lot of them down. Some nights, bad nights, we put down two or three or more during my shift. On Monday night we put down two in two hours (one was a long-term patient I'd taken care of in the ICU), last night we didn't do any.

Euthanasia was somewhat less common when I was at a day practice, where we did routine care. Even with routine care, though, you have a fair bit of cancer, age-related stuff, accidents, parvo, you name it. We might go for weeks without a euth, then do three in an afternoon. A lot of it depends on the age and general health of your patient population, and the amount your clients are willing to spend on their pets.

For anyone considering a career in vet medicine, I strongly suggest volunteering at a clinic or shelter. Actually, if you don't have some time in at a clinic, most vet schools won't even consider you very seriously for admission. I think you might be surprised at what you can and can't handle.

catnoe

03-12-2003, 01:22 PM

Thanks CatLady.

I do have a comment about barfing cats. Both my cats do it, one more than the other. My grey tabby started life as a Naples street cat, someone rescued her and I wound up with her. The Black tortoiseshell may have been a street cat but I doubt it, too people friendly when I found her waiting on me at the front door of my building, had to have had a home before me.

Street cats tend to eat really fast or else they don't eat. Being second banana, the black cat had to learn to eat fast after she moved in or the grey would hog the food. So I have two cats that barf.

So if a cat had to fight for food when young it's likely a barfer, very hard to unlearn.

CatLady, another question, black cat, Merlo, likes Yoplait yogurt and Jello brand pudding, among other people foods, it's not harmful is it? She has to try everything we eat, if she likes it she adds it to her want list. The grey, Bella, also wants to eat people food, but doesn't, she does like to sniff your breath to find out what you ate though.

I love my cats, but Merlo is my baby.

CRorex

03-12-2003, 01:32 PM

Squeeze cage:

A large cage with one 'wall' spring loaded and on a track. You stick an animal into it and you can push the wall on the track against the far side, in essence trapping the animal in place between the bars. You're basically squeezing the animal bewteen two parts of the cage.

I'm guessing its so you don't lose an arm when you're trying to inject a large/mean/powerful animal with drugs to knock it out.

I keep trying to figure out how you get a large primate into the blood thing in the first place. If the animal won't be passively injected with sedatives in the first place how do you calm down the critter enough to get it into the cage? It's not like you can pick up a 120lb baboon and toss it in.

CrazyCatLady

03-12-2003, 01:45 PM

Catnoe, I wouldn't give her large amounts of either thing, because the sugar and the milk can upset her tummy, but a nibble here and there won't hurt her any. We sometimes even prescribe plain yogurt for some intestinal problems. Usually, this is to repopulate the gut with good bacteria after antibiotic-induced diarrhea.

CRorex, I don't have any experience with primates, but a lot of animals will go in a cage a lot more readily than they'll let you inject them. You can also lure them in with food and stuff.

CrazyCatLady

03-12-2003, 06:33 PM

Oh, while I'm thinking about it, here are some general rules about when to call the vet, as requested by velma.

If you'd get yourself or your kids checked out for the same symptoms, call. If rectal bleeding is a big deal for you, it's a big deal for your dog. (Don't ask.)

If something just seems different, call. We may not tell you to rush right over, but it's better to check.

If your pet's appetite changes (this is part of why measuring food is a good idea) for more than 24 hours, call. Same for water consumption.

Basically, when in doubt, call. We'd rather talk you through something minor than have you ignore something big because you didn't want to be a bother.

When you come to the vet, please try to have your shit together. Have your dog on a leash, and your cat contained in some way. If you don't have a carrier, a cardboard box will work fine, too. Be as familiar with your pet's medical history as possible, and bring relevant records from other clinics when possible. This is especially important for visits to the emergency clinic.

Please don't try to restrain your own pet unless you're trained in animal restraint. This is not only to protect the vet or techs, but also to protect you and your pet. If Poopsie breaks loose from you and falls off the exam table, serious injury could result. Likewise, please don't stand nose to nose with your pet cooing at it. If we do something painful and he snaps, guess who's most likely to get nailed? Standing at the head and reassuring the animal is usually fine, but please maintain a safe distance.

A little basic courtesy goes a long way toward establishing goodwill among the staff. Don't whip out the cell phone and have non-essential conversations while we're examining your pet. We often have questions for you, and it pisses us off (not to mention throwing us behind schedule) to have to wait for you to finish up. If your pet makes a mess, let us know, and apologize. Don't bitch at the receptionist about the bill, or how hard it was to get an appointment that fit your schedule. It's not her fault, and she generally can't do anything about it.

Oh, and don't lie about when a problem started. If your dog is a walking rack of bones, we know he didn't start losing appetite yesterday, so don't tell us he did. That just makes us hate you. If you didn't notice, or you thought it would clear up on it's own, or you didn't have the money to come in, fine. Any of those things is better than being a liar.

vandal

03-13-2003, 12:42 AM

I've always had an interest in veterinary science and was very close to attending a veterinary school, but my interest in computers prevailed.

Anyway, I've been toying with the idea of a career change, and I'm curious to know how you got into this career, and what you did, if anything, before.

Also, if you don't mind answering, how is the pay? Is this something you see yourself doing for the rest of your life? What promotional and/or advancement opportunities are available?

And, in your progression to becoming a veterinary technician, would you do anything differently?

CrazyCatLady

03-13-2003, 01:49 AM

I wanted to go to vet school, and I needed some practical experience to have a snowball's chance of getting in. (It's quite a lot harder to get into vet school than med school. Think about that next time you're at the doctor.) I got on the alternate list three years, but never could quite make it over the hump, and I've just kind of stuck with it.

I contemplated a career change when we moved, but nothing was panning out (somehow all the offers of help finding a job evaporated once we were actually here), and the emergency clinic actually wanted me. So here I am.

To be honest, this isn't something to get into just for shits and giggles, 'cause the giggles can be few and far between. It's hard physical labor a lot of the time, and it's a rare day I go home without any piss, shit, or blood on me. It's also incredibly draining emotionally, and sometimes it's damn hard to find a balance between being involved enough to give every patient everything you have, and being detached enough to not have your heart broken constantly.

The pay varies by clinic, training, experience, and seniority. At the last place I worked, I started with limited experience and no formal training at $7/hour and no benefits. When I left two and a half years later, I was making $9.75/hour with vacation, sick leave, free insurance and free pet care. Some places pay more for certification, others don't.

Sometimes senior techs supervise the tech staff, do schedules, etc., and sometimes they double as office managers. It just depends on the individual clinic and how it's set up. Head techs tend to do more administrative stuff and less shit shoveling, but they still clean cages like the rest of us when needed.

Would I do anything differently? I don't know. Probably not. I worked out of the industry for a few months between teching gigs. (the "internship" I had wasn't paying the bills, and I couldn't work two jobs and take classes part time. It was killing me.) It was nice to know no one would piss down my leg 30 minutes into my shift, but I was miserable. I missed the physical and mental challenges of helping figure out what was going on with patient, and I missed the feeling of being needed. Most of all, though, I missed the animals.

hyperjes

03-13-2003, 03:08 AM

This might seem a little dumb....

I have a hamster. The hamham is somewhere between 3, 4 and 5 years old. (I got her from a school that no longer wanted her once she got Wet Tail. They were not sure exactly how old she is. The teacher made an educated guess. I got her fixed up at the vet and brought her home.) This week, she began to get sick.

Her eyes are stuck shut if I don't wipe them frequently with warm water. She is losing A LOT of weight. She seems to drag herself around rather than walk, often falling into awkward positions that she can't get herself out of. She seems to be breathing shallowly. She sleeps unless I wake her up. She will not eat unless I place food directly under her face, and even then she only eats sometimes and very little. I also can't get her to drink unless I put her right in front of her water bottle.

In short- I think she is dying. I have had her for several months now, and she's been very healthy. Frisky, friendly, etc. I have had mice, but they all passed away overnight, at ripe old ages. I think she is a Golden Hamster. I know their lifespan is 2-3 years. She has been like this for about 3 days. Are these normal "dying symptoms?" Is there anything I can do to make her more comfortable, aside from keeping her clean and helping her eat?

I guess it's silly to get this upset about a hamster, but she's been very sweet and we love her.

:confused: :( :confused:

CrazyCatLady

03-13-2003, 04:33 AM

I'm not sure what you mean by "normal dying symptoms" but it sounds like she's very sick indeed, and possibly dying. She could have some sort of infection (the runny eyes are what make me wonder about that) that could be cleared up with antibiotics, and the weakness and such are due to her lack of appetite. On the other hand, she could have cancer or some age-related rodent thing (my knowledge of pocket pet diseases is pretty sketchy, sorry).

If a trip to the vet isn't in her future, I'd suggest putting extra padding in her cage so if she does fall it's a little less uncomfortable for her. Keep her clean and dry and warm and try to feed her as much as you can. You might also call the vet who saw her before and see if they have any suggestions.

And, no, it's not silly to get upset about a hamster. You love her and she's become a part of your family. Anybody who doesn't get upset at the prospect of losing a family member is, IMNSHO, seriously fucked up.

hyperjes

03-13-2003, 05:15 AM

Thank you, CrazyCatLady. I've done quite a bit of research online. What I keep finding is mention of stroke, which apparently causes parts of the hamster's body to become paralysed or partially paralyzed. That is what I suspect about the "dragging" that she is doing. Her back legs don't seem to work properly. I think you are probably right about an infection in her eyes. On the other hand, I went to check on her shortly after my earlier post and her eyes seem to be slightly better. Maybe that will clear up on it's own if I keep cleaning them.

I would take her to the vet, but my husband is kind of opposed to taking her in, since she is rather elderly. Not that he has been at all heartless or unkind to her. We have had her in to the vet 2 times since we got her several months ago. Once for her Wet Tail, and another time to have a ping-pong ball sized cyst/tumor removed from her side. (The cyst thing healed up beautifully. I can't see or feel any signs of it, or anything similar, on her now. ) I would take her in, but her advanced age makes the outlook seem pretty grim.

On a good note- I did get her to eat a whole peanut a little while ago. That's the most she's eaten in days!:)

I really just want to make sure that she has every chance to get better on her own and is as comfy as we can make her. If she's on her way out, I want it to be as painless as possible.

Thank you for your help!

hyperjes

03-13-2003, 05:17 AM

Just a thought- I wonder if I couldn't pick up an antibiotic for her at the vet, without taking her in for a visit? I recall the antibiotic for Wet Tail being around $15. It couldn't hurt to give them to her, could it?

CrazyCatLady

03-13-2003, 05:40 AM

I'm not sure if the vet can prescribe that legally or not. You do have a valid VCPR, but he hasn't seen the animal for this particular condition. It doesn't do any harm to call them up and ask, certainly. The only harm I can see it doing to her is to give her diarrhea. Unfortunately, in her shape, a good bout of diarrhea just might finish the poor girl off.

hyperjes

03-13-2003, 06:16 AM

You might be right about the diarrhea. :( I guess I'll just have to call and see.

FairyChatMom

03-13-2003, 07:45 AM

Here's something that I wondered about recently, and I hope I'm way too early to actually have to deal with it (my dog is about 7 y/o). When a pet dies, can the vet's office take care of disposing of the body? We had one dog die but we had a large lot and there was plenty of room to bury him there. But where we live now, the yards are little and the water table is not too far underground (we back onto wetlands.) When the time comes, I don't want to be calling all over the place trying to find out what to do. And I don't want a burial vault or her ashes or anything - I'd like to know her remains will be handled properly.

Lynn Bodoni

03-13-2003, 09:42 AM

When a pet dies, can the vet's office take care of disposing of the body?

I've had to deal with this a couple of times, and my vet's office did. Yours may not. You might want to call NOW and check.

Euthanasia is the blessing and the curse of veterinary medicine. It's the final gift of love and respect and compassion we can give a suffering animal, and it's one of the hardest parts of the job. It gets easier, but it never gets easy. Never. You might develop the ability to joke about it, but it's still not easy. The jokes just keep you from going crazy.

That's about the hardest decision I've had to make...when to take the pet in to be put down. I waited too long in one case, and she suffered needlessly. At the same time, I don't want to have an animal put down too early.

Even when I was sure that it was time to put Midnight down (she was 19, had cancer, couldn't be operated on because of kidney failure) it was still VERY hard to say "it's time for her to go."

Miabella

03-13-2003, 10:03 AM

Hey CrazyCatLady, could you comment on the feline vaccination guidelines (http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/ce/vaccine1/felinevacc-01.pdf) from the Am. Assoc. of Feline Practioners?

I have 2 strictly indoor cats, ages 5 and 7, who I want to move to a 3 year vaccination schedule. They have no contact with other cats, and they are never boarded outside the home. They have been vaccinated annually since they were kittens, but now that they are becoming middle-aged, I have some concerns about over-vaccinating them. My vet is giving me a hard time about not vaccinating them annually, and I am seriously considering finding them another vet.

CrazyCatLady

03-13-2003, 02:16 PM

FCM every vet I've ever known has some protocol in place for disposing of a body. Some places send them out for group cremation (ashes not returned) at your cost as a routine thing, some simply offer it as an option. A lot of places, however, just let the sanitation department pick them up. I wouldn't race for the phone this very second, but I would ask what options they have the next time I was over there. Preplanning can make things easier when it is time to say goodbye.

Lynn, it can be a damn tough call to make and I don't envy anyone who's had to make it, especially more than once. My sympathies about Midnight. I'm sure she was a wonderful kitty and had a wonderful, well cared-for life.

Mia, I've never seen anyone use the vaccine protocols in that link. The protocols I've seen from the AVMA have called for 3-4 boosters 3 weeks apart, starting at 6-8 weeks and ending at 16 weeks or older. I'm not saying either is right or wrong, as one may be based on newer research than the other, just that it's so different from the protocols I've used that I don't feel qualified to have an opinion on it.

I see both sides of the coin here. You don't want to subject them to the stress of unnecessary trips to the vet (I'm not sure I buy the stuff about overvaccinating) and it's good that you're concerned enough about them to do some independent research. However, I see the vet's point, too. Not all vaccines are created equal, and they're generally not designed to last for 3+ years. If your cats ever found themselves outside (through accident, natural disaster, or human malice), they could be at risk.

Don't brush of the risk, either. Maggie, who hates the outdoors with a burning passion and struggles violently if you carry her near a door, suddenly took a wild hair to go catting around. It was summer, and we were grilling in the back yard, so we left the door propped open. After all, it's Maggie. She's sure as hell not gonna try to get out, right? Wrong, wrong, wrong. She was gone for hours before we even considered that she might be outside instead of hiding. She turned up at the door next morning, and has returned to her hatred of all things outdoor, but it did happen that once.

Miabella

03-13-2003, 03:17 PM

Thanks for responding, CrazyCatLady. As you probably realize, I'm not questioning the vaccine schedule because I am lazy or cheap with my pets. Completely the contrary, I want to make informed decisions about what is the best way to care for them, weighing the risks of each option. :)

I've known several cats who have been vaccinated annually without problem when they were younger, but then had a major reaction to vaccines when they got to a more advanced age. I realize that the immunization provided by vaccines does not last forever, but I would have to think that periodic titering would allow for boosters to be administered at greater time periods while maintaining functional immunity.

Zenster

03-13-2003, 06:50 PM

In a typically arbitrary snit of feline rage, my cat has bitten deeply into my hand. Enraged at this obvious attempt to interfere with his food supply, my wolf hybrid has promptly and indisputably clamped his jaws down upon a large and readily available catlike appendage.

Who do I disconnect from whom, and in what order, to minimize any further bloodshed?

Three possible scenarios come to mind:

Do I pry the cat from my hand, and risk that my wolf hybrid's state of anxiety over interdiction of his food supply may prompt him to trot off with the cat, now regarding him as nothing more than a convenient snack instead of his long time and treasured playmate?Or:

Do I force my wolf hybrid to release the cat first, risking that this may further entrench the already pernicious feelings of feline superiority my tom has and encourage him to repeat this foul assault on another occasion when my wolf hybrid isn't around to deter him?Or:

Do I reach for the nearest handy length of two by four and valiantly attempt to simultaneously club them both into unconsciousness with a well aimed two-with-one-stone sort of blow, thereby assuring that both of them receive equal treatment and skirting the perilous chance of either one perceiving some sort of preferential treatment that could start this vicious cycle all over again?

What's pet owner to do?

Hanna

03-13-2003, 07:08 PM

Miabella - I have three cats who are indoor only too and I agonize over this. I did have a problem with one of my cats (the oldest, Bo) a few years back. He developed a lump on the site where he gets the rabies vaccine. Luckily that turned out OK (after surgery) but it scared the heck out of me. We are getting the three year rabies now.

raz

03-13-2003, 08:31 PM

Hey CrazyCatLady! This thread is right up my alley! Ever since I can remember I've wanted to be a vet. I'm planning on going to K-State after 2 years of a community college (Allen County) not too far from me. I've volunteered at a vet clinic where my cousin works and actually am going back later this week!

Anyway, I was wondering if you could give me some advice for caring for my elderly cat. She just turned 19 this month and she's looking pretty bad. Things started getting worse just within the last year. She's lost a LOT of weight (probably about 4 pounds) and she has fur loss from the middle of her spine to her tail in a sort of triangular pattern. She also has small red scabs all over, especially in the patchy fur areas. She just got a visit to the vet last month, and I got some medication to put into her food once a day, and was told to change her diet so it included canned food to help her put on some weight. Can you think of anything else I can do for her? She's really on her last leg I'm afraid to say.

Oh and another thing. Callie was always a very quiet cat, but along the time she started losing all the weight and stuff, she started howling. I mean, this is LOUD. I can here her upstairs when she is outside. And the weird things is, she usually doesn't howl for any apparent reason. She'll sit in the middle of the kitchen and do it. She'll sit in the hall and do it. She does it when I let her inside and she does it when I let her outside. Any idea on why she is doing this?

CrazyCatLady

03-13-2003, 11:37 PM

Zenster, the pet owner grabs the cat by the scruff of the neck and makes him let go of the hand, then orders dog to release cat. The pet owner then beats the hell out of both dog and cat. No, you don't beat them, but you do make it very clear that their behavior is unacceptable.

Roadkiller, the first thing I wonder about in a cat that age is kidney failure, and a lot of her symptoms fit in with that. Has your vet done bloodwork on her? If she is in renal failure, she should be on IV or subcutaneous fluids. She should also be getting all the fluids you can get her to drink. We had a lady who swore by a lactose free milk drink for cats; she kept a kidney cat alive six months longer than we would have expected with sq fluids and CatSip. There's also a pet-safe ice cream called Frosty Paws that can be really good for getting some extra calories in her.

The skin stuff could be any number of things, and if your vet doesn't know, I'm sure not gonna take a guess sight unseen. The howling could also be a lot of different things. She may be in pain, she may have cat senility that makes her dysphoric and vocal, she may have a brain tumor. Or she could just be pissed off about something. Cats can be that way sometimes.

acrossthesea

04-06-2003, 07:03 AM

I know this is an old thread but I have a question: a couple of years ago I had a guinea pig that turned out to be pregnant when I bought her. I could tell she was after just a few weeks, but the vet swore she had "strange, large moving tumors" in her stomach. That's when I lost faith in that vet. So anyway she gave birth to 4 babies, nursed them, and then I gave them away except one female, which I let stay in the cage with her mother. Here's where it got wierd.

The baby, in the entire year I had it, never grew beyond the size of an adult teddy bear hamster. (Her mother was normal size.) She acted immature and would frequently pee blood. She and her mother got into odd dominance struggles that included climbing on eachother's backs, rubbing butts, and making purring, mating call noises. The mother would pull fur out of her daughter's back. I had no room for a second cage, or I would have seperated them.

As time wore on, it would get better, but the mother started losing patches of fur on her chest and stomach which never grew back. A giant cyst swelled up in her neck, popped, and whitish pus-fluid oozed out. I took her to the vet who gave her antibiotics, which didn't help. Eventually, because I was moving, I gave them away.

Any ideas exactly what went wrong?

80sHairMetalMaven

04-06-2003, 10:10 AM

Zev--IANA vet tech,but yes.We had a pair of $6 rats,Justin and Nicodemus. Last Sept when we went on vacation,Justin had an seizure caused by renal failure due to old age and was partially paralyzed. We took Justin to the vet we take our cats to (at the local Petsmart)and asked what our options were.We were more than ready to spend $200+ on hooking him up to an IV to get him rehydrated,drugs,whatever it took.But the vet told us to consider what his quality of life would be if we got him fixed up.In the end,we spent like $10 having him put down.
I also saw an episode of Emergency Vets on Animal Planet where a young girl spent a huge amount of cash to save her pet rat Mamarat from cancer.
So yes,Zev,people DO spend lots of money on vet bills(sometimes) for their little fuzzies.Just because they aren't a dog or cat or lizard or bird doesn't mean they are any less dear to the ones who love them.
IDBB

80sHairMetalMaven

04-06-2003, 10:30 AM

CCL--I just thought of a question.
We've had Buttercup since she was about 16 wks old.Adopted her from the N.Texas Feral group and she'd had all her shots and was fixed when we brought her home.Other than a slight upper respritory infection she had when we brought her home,she's been perfectly healthy.She is a strictly indoor cat and is never boarded outside the home.She is also extremely overweight.At her last vet visit,she weighed in at a whopping 16 1/2 pounds.The vet prescribe a low-cal,low-fat dry chow for her (can't think of the name..the vets sell it in their office,can only get by prescription).Unfortunately for both us and her,she refused to eat it.We couldn't put BOTH cats on the low-cal food because Rumpleteazer is at a perfect weight (6.8 lbs at last visit).We tried unsuccessfully feeding them at seperate times of day and even putting one in one room and one in the other,but as soon as we closed the door,Buttercup would refuse to eat and sit there and whine until we opened the door before running out the door to go eat the other 'normal' food (IAMS hairball control adult maint.form dry chow).
My question is...how can we get this fattie to trim down?At the last checkup,the vet said that in addition to possibly causing future heart problems (she is almost 2 now),this excess weight is really messing up a gland on her bottom which she can't reach to express herself when she poops(something I assume cats do normally.He said he had to express it for her while she was down because it was impacted or something from not being expressed normally.
I love my cat.I really do.She's sweet and loving and very forgiving.Just really over weight. Right now we have them both on IAMS hairball control adult maint. formula dry chow,which both cats really seem to like.
Also..how can I break Buttercup of a bad habit?She LOVES to splash water out of her waterbowl and we had to switch to a heavier bowl because she kept knocking the other one over.I've tried only filling the bowl 1/4 of the way but that's not really enough water for two adult kitties for an 8-10 hr period when CG and I are not home.Also..if the water level is TOO low in the bowl and Rumpleteazer actually has to stick her face in,she won't drink.I hate to think she'd get dehydrated because her sister keeps knocking water out of the bowl.:(

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