Recommend a computer RPG, or make fun of me for asking

[NE Texan]

Does anyone have any recent recommendations for a computer RPG? I haven't played a good one in ages, and I'm hoping someone knows of the perfect one that I've missed out on. Besides wanting to play a new one myself, my wife is looking at going in for surgery soon, and will be going stir crazy at home while she recovers – it would be great if I can surprise her with a gift of a game she would like to give her something to do that isn't strenuous.

Just to narrow it down some, my wife and I both tend to like games that are stat-based, non-action RPGs (not first person shooters, so much) with a lot of plot and puzzles. I like both fantasy and SF genres, while my wife tends to like only the fantasy genres. We've both loved the Might and Magic series quite a bit, and the Ultima series. Wizardry was my favorite back when the original came out, but over the years we've kind of lost interest. I've loved the Fallout series, but my wife doesn't like the SF. We both like the Final Fantasy series (my wife more than I), although we get bored by the movie interludes. We both liked Planescape:Torment. She liked Baldur's Gate, I wasn't as impressed. Arcanum looked neat, but my wife thought it was so-so. (I haven't had the time to finish it.) I suppose I could go on, but that's probably enough info to give some ideas of our tastes. Oh, and we're not looking for anything on-line. At all.

If you know a great one that doesn't fit my recommendations exactly, well, maybe post it anyway, and it will help someone else. It seems to me there just aren't as many computer RPGs out these days. Feel free to make comments to (explain this/disagree with this/rant about it/be grateful for it) from your POV.

Let's see – asking opinions, but it's about a computer game. IMHO or Cafe? (Flips mental coin) Heads – Cafe it is (for the computer game aspect - I'm fairly certain I've seen posts about computer games directed to Cafe). Apologies in advance to the mods if I've chosen poorly and they have to move it – I did my best.

[Athena]

Have you seen Morrowind? Probably the best single player RPG I've ever seen, ever. I've played most of the ones you list (Wizardry 1 waaaay back when!) and Morrowind wins over 'em all.

[soulmurk]

If she liked BG, she would enjoy BG II: Shadows of Amn, and its expansion: Throne of Bhaal.

I'm not as up on them as I used to be so take my suggestion with a grain of salt, but BG II was my favorite.

[NE Texan]

Originally posted by Athena
Have you seen Morrowind? Probably the best single player RPG I've ever seen, ever. I've played most of the ones you list (Wizardry 1 waaaay back when!) and Morrowind wins over 'em all.

Sounds like you liked it! Tell me more.

I have this vague memory that when Morrowind came out, it was kind of buggy. Help me refresh my memory - is this (a) me misremembering, (b) it was buggy but it's fine now, or (c) it's buggy, but it's still enjoyable.

Also, how does it play? Turn-based combat, or real-time? (We have a large preference for turn-based, as we're not good at action games, but occasionally we'll get over it.) Lots of plot and NPC's to talk to, or mostly combat?

[NE Texan]

Originally posted by soulmurk
If she liked BG, she would enjoy BG II: Shadows of Amn, and its expansion: Throne of Bhaal.

I'm not as up on them as I used to be so take my suggestion with a grain of salt, but BG II was my favorite.

You know, when BG II came out, I suggested it, but my wife didn't like BG quite enough to get the sequel. However, it's been long enough, it's cheaper now, plus there are fewer games out there competing, so I'm willing to reconsider. BG II was your favorite? Was it a lot better than BG, or just slightly, and why?

Thanks.

[D_Odds]

I'll second Baldur's Gate 2. That's the most replayed game I own. There are some very nice user mods out there. BG 2 is my favorite because it took all the good parts of BG and improved them. Character interaction with NPCs is better - their personalities are more thoroughly fleshed out (and Minsc is back and more hilarious than ever). Quests are more coherent (usually). You get to toss around some serious mojo and wield some k.a. weapons.

Morrowind is top-notch, but it plays much like a first-person shooter (FPS) RPG. It's not like other FPSs with RPG elements likes Deus Ex or System Shock 2. It's first and foremost a RPG, and unlike FPSs or other RPGs, you can get so powerful so easily that nothing can truly harm you (other than the all-too-frequent crash to desktop after not having saved for the past 90 minutes). Morrowind was not as buggy as Bethesda's previous game, Daggerfall, but still had some problems. Many were fixed, but I still experience some crashes (especially when I'm trying to do too many things too quickly); not enough to turn me off of the game. A warning - you need a good system to run this game.


Icewind Dale plays like a better version of many console RPGs (IMO), although if you are looking for character interaction, you are out of luck. It's based on the BG engine, only you create the entire party rather than pick up NPCs. I haven't tried ID 2 yet, but I hear it is as good.

I've heard good things about Arx Fatalis, and it's on my shelf to be played soon.

Wizardry 8 is good.

I've heard bad things about the latest Might & Magic entry (number 9, if memory serves) and about Pools of Radience; considering my limited gaming time, that was enough to keep me away from these.

Hope this helps.

[HideoHo]

Actually, the previous games in the Elder Scrolls series (Morrowind being the 3rd) were pretty buggy, but I've yet to have any problems with this one. It's very stat based, the action is easy enough, and the biggest part is there's a LOT of user made downloads for it that plug into the main story of the game, to allow you more options/weapons/spells/locations plus allow you to change the difficulty of the game or even add monsters and dungeons.

It's very free form, however. There's a story and it gently guides you towards it, but you never have to follow it and this bothers some people who play. It's certainly worth a purchase (especially since I saw it used for 20$ and the expansion used for 15$)

John

[KidCharlemagne]

I thought Morrowind was terrible. If your into stat based RPG's you won't like this one even though it has stats. The combat is ridiculously easy. I liked Icewind Dale 2 which is a stat/combat heavy take on bg2. You would also probably like Wizardry 8. Stay away from Morrowind.

[Rabid_Squirrel]

Fallout I and II have a great plot and atmosphere, and it's fairly old so it should run on any modern computer and cost stuff-all. Lots of dialogue, turn-based action and multiple solutions for quests. Only problem is it's post apocolyst setting, which may not be to your taste.

You could try Neverwinter Nights. Personally I found the plot and general 'feel' wafer thin compared to BG, but there are some great user-made campaign modules and the 3rd edition rules are fun. Monks kicks ass.

[ArrMatey!]

I'll have to second that one. I find NWN pretty engrosing (granted, I only play it for a few hours a week as I have my games saved on someone else's computers), and some of the player-made modules are -really- nice (try Penultima City- It's awsome and quite funny)

[Tarantara]

A favorite that I've played to the end several times. Cool graphics. You have to be careful not to let your "Humanity" level fall if you want the "happy" ending.

[soulmurk]

Originally posted by NE Texan
You know, when BG II came out, I suggested it, but my wife didn't like BG quite enough to get the sequel. However, it's been long enough, it's cheaper now, plus there are fewer games out there competing, so I'm willing to reconsider. BG II was your favorite? Was it a lot better than BG, or just slightly, and why?

Thanks.

I thought it was a big improvement over the first BG, and at the time I didn't think that that was possible.

They switched over to 3rd edition AD&D rules, which means the re-introduction of two of my favorite classes: the monk and the barbarian.

They also brought back the race of Half-Orc. Make a H-O Barbarian and watch the severed limbs fly...

Bonuses to BG II include but are not limited to: characters start at roughly 6th level, Imoen kicks more ass than ever because she begins as a dual class (keeps all her great thieving abilities, and is now training to be a mage), deeper character interaction with your group members (including several love interest story lines), more detailed quests and the ability to gain strongholds, dragons!, level restrictions are not restrictive (if you get the expansion, you can reach 20+, depending on class, and gain new abilities unique to 3rd edition rules called feats), character kits (like Archer and Mage Slayer, among many others) to customize your main character further, and the introduction of a slew of new spells (including a whole new pantheon of protection and anti-protection spells which adds a whole new level of complexity to deciding how to fill those memorization slots).

Other than that (and I'm sure I'm forgetting some things), it's pretty much just like the first BG: non-linear storyline, good graphics, good voice acting, etc.

If she wasn't too into the first one, she probably won't be all that much more into the 2nd one, despite all the improvements, but it still carries my recommendation :)

Good luck, good gaming, and I hope the surgery goes smoothly :)

[Athena]

Originally posted by NE Texan
Sounds like you liked it! Tell me more.

I have this vague memory that when Morrowind came out, it was kind of buggy. Help me refresh my memory - is this (a) me misremembering, (b) it was buggy but it's fine now, or (c) it's buggy, but it's still enjoyable.

Also, how does it play? Turn-based combat, or real-time? (We have a large preference for turn-based, as we're not good at action games, but occasionally we'll get over it.) Lots of plot and NPC's to talk to, or mostly combat?

It occasionally crashes to desktop on my system. By "occasionally" I mean maybe once every 3-4 hours. I'm obsessive about saving, so that hasn't bugged me much. Other than that, no bugs that I know of.

It's not turn-based, it's real-time. However, you *can* pause during combat and do stuff like rearrange spells or get a different weapon - that makes a difference for me, I don't know if it does for you. It's not nearly as nerve-wracking combat wise as a FPS. For what it's worth, I really don't enjoy FPS, and I don't consider Morrowind anything like an FPS.

Morrowind's big draw is the plot and NPCs. You literally can play for days and days without even touching the main plot line. One of the cool things about the game is that everything is "real". Those books in the bookshelf over there? You can pull them out and read them. The dishes on the table aren't background graphics - you can pick them up, steal them, rearrange them, whatever you want.

There's also a ton of skills. One of my favorite is Alchemy. You can find books about Alchemy, then go out and gather the necessary herbs, minerals, and animal parts. Combine them and make potions.

Combat is fairly easy, as people say. That doesn't bother me much - the plot is rich enough, and there's enough to do that combat isn't the main point. There's also enough "hard" encounters, at least in my opinion, that combat doesn't get too horribly dull.

Lots and lots of clever riddles to solve, quests to do, etc. etc. NPCs with personalities. And don't forget the graphics - this game is absolutely beautiful. You can sit and watch the sunrise and be dazzled if you want. The cities are complex and interesting.

I need to go play now...

[Atrael]

Have you thought about The Myst games? While not really fantasy RPG's, the are heavy puzzle intensive. Other than that, I second Morrowind, except to say that if you pick up the expansion (Tribunal), I wouldn't load it untill you've played through the main game for a while. As I understand it, once you have the expansion loaded, it automatically trigers a series of events in the game, with no way to really aviod them. So you can find yourself trying to play the expansion at level 1. Not a good thing. There are also some great user mods out there for Morrowind. It was shipped with the constuction set the developers used to create the game originally, and the users have been curning out some great stuff.

Maybe she might like some of the stratagy type games? Age of Mythology can be a good way to loose a few hours. Although I can never beat the thing on anything other than easy.

Good luck, and I hope she feels better.

[NE Texan]

Lots of good suggestions here. Let me briefly reply to the major points, and I apologize in advance if I miss anyone.

Several good recommendations on BG2 – I do think I'll look into this one. I remember that one thing my wife found annoying about BG was the combat system; if that's been upgraded to DD 3e, it may be improved. Also, she hasn't played BG lately, so she may feel differently. It at least sounds like it's worth a try.

D_Odds and KidCharlemagne: Icewind Dale sounds like it doesn't have enough story that we'd enjoy it, so I'm going to give it a pass for now. Thank you for giving me the information, though.

D_Odds, on Might and Magic 9: We played this one (as we've played all of them). Personally, I think it's the weakest of the M&M series from MM6 onwards (which all have very similar software engines). However, I still enjoyed it, and like it better than a lot of games out there. My wife says it was better than Arcanum (which, as I said earlier, I haven't had time to play, and can't comment on). I don't have any information on Pool of Radiance, though.

Rabid_Squirrel, I have both Fallout 1 and 2, and loved both of them – I agree, they're great games. My wife doesn't like the post-holocaust setting, though, so doesn't care for them. If they made a fantasy game in this style, it would be perfect. If they made a Fallout 3 (and Fallout Tactics isn't it), I would buy it in a heartbeat for myself.

[NE Texan]

Atrael, thanks for the suggestions of other types of games, but I'm particularly looking for RPG's. The ones you suggest are either genres we're not out of games in yet, or ones that my wife isn't interested in.

For example, we also really love strategy games. We've got just about all of the Heroes of MM series, Age of Wonders, I think we have WarCraft somewhere, I liked Master of Orion II (although my wife didn't), and we have a few others whose names I can't remember. However, we have a couple that we haven't finished yet. We found some "campaign-only" versions of HOMM3 on the discount rack, and haven't played them all. My wife recently got the expansions to HOMM4, which she enjoys for a while, but then she gets tired of playing that type of game. She's been specifically looking for an RPG lately, which is why I'm trying to surprise her with one. (And I don't fault you for not knowing that, - your suggestions were good ones.)

As for the graphical adventures – I really liked the Myst games. (In fact, I have all 3). My wife didn't care for that style, though. I did – I've been playing that style since Zork, as the games grew and slowly added graphics.

In fact, we can see a theme here, which highlights part of the reason I'm having trouble finding games. I have little time, but like a wider variety of games. My wife has much more free time, but only likes a narrow type of game. Consequently, she runs out of games, and I generally don't – I can always try to catch up by playing the last one she got, that I haven't had time to play yet. Or I pick games she doesn't like off the discount rack (I got the 2 fallout games together for under $20) way after they've passed their prime in the market.

In addition, it's been my perception that companies just aren't making many RPG's these days. And those that do, are either adding action elements and gearing them towards the FPS crowd, or moving towards MMORPG's. Those may both be profitable for the companies involved (I don't know for certain, but I would hope that's the rational expectation), but they aren't the types of games we enjoy, and it leaves a big hole in the RPG market. (IMHO). Which means that we have to work harder at finding the few games that are out there that we enjoy.

Hey, where did this soapbox come from? Can someone help me down from here? Please?

[NE Texan]

Thanks to everyone who has responded so far. I see that a lot of people are talking about Morrowind, but I'm getting some mixed messages here, so I'm going to ask some stupid questions in the hope that I'll get some smart answers. (To forestall the obvious: I checked their official website, as well as a few review websites, and couldn't really get a clear picture through the marketing hype.)

Let's start with plot.
Athena: "Morrowind's big draw is the plot and NPCs. You literally can play for days and days without even touching the main plot line."
HideoHo: "There's a story and it gently guides you towards it, but you never have to follow it and this bothers some people who play."

I think we would be counted among the people who would be bothered if you don't have to follow the storyline. I'm not really looking for a completely free-form world. On the other hand, some games are really heavily linear, coughfinalfantasycough, and go overboard in the other direction. So please expand on this aspect. For instance, if I put the game down for a month, and come back to reload my game, is anything in the game going to remind me what the characters' goals were? Is it possible to accidentally run across pieces of the plot out of order, that won't make sense then, and can't be redone? Or is it simply that, at any time, the characters can go off to (get stronger, do side quests, horse around) and can come back to the main plot at any time?

The crashes worry me – crashing to the desktop every few hours sounds extremely frustrating. Closely related to this point – is this a game you can save anywhere, anytime, or only at set locations?

Athena points out that combat is real time – which is a big minus for me. However, if you can pause at any time, that's somewhat mitigating – similar to some of the later Ultima games, perhaps? What I really want to know is, since we don't have the fastest mouse fingers in the West (or, in our case, in the NorthEast), are we going to be beaten in combat so many times that we'll be too discouraged to continue playing? HideoHo and KidCharlemagne indicate that the combat is easy, which far from being a negative factor, is a positive factor for us if it's a real-time combat game. I have to ask, though – easy by whose standards? Is it only easy compared to a real FPS, or is it easy as in, hard to die even if you are lousy at action games?

And overall – how's the dialogue? How are the NPC's? Do they react cleverly to PC dialogue? Are their multiple conversation trees? Do they change based on events in the game (ie, programmed to act as if "aware" of what's happened in the world)?

[D_Odds]

Let me help you on Morrowind, which I am currently playing with the expansion pack [/i]Tribunal[/i]

You don't have to ever enter the story. You can enter story-line specific places, but without certain triggers, you won't break the story-line (for example, you can't pick up an object to complete an early main plot quest until you are given that quest). One exception is for murdering psychopaths - you can kill key figures to the plot, without whom you cannot finish the game storyline. The game will tell you if you have done so. You can continue playing, you just can't finish the main plot. At just about any point during the main plot, you can leave it to do other things, like take over the thieves' guild, and return at your leisure. I don't think there are any timed quests related to the main plot, strictly from memory.

Crashes can be annoying. However, you can quicksave at any time, even in combat. Combat is real-time, although you can pause (necessary for choosing spells or finding potions) during combat. However, it does not need any kind of quick reflexes and unless you power through the game in the shortest time possible, by the end you can easily beat anything you encounter. Combat is indeed very easy - no comparison to FPS, and little in the way of tactics (basically, do I kill the bad guy with magic or might). See enemy, choose offense, click left mouse button to hit enemy. Repeat until enemy is dead. Tactics means not throwing fire spells at Flame Atronarchs. There is a very annoying enemy - not dangerous after your first few levels, just very abudant - Cliff Racers. They're big flying birds that prevent you from hitting autorun and going to make a cup of coffee. I've heard of, but not installed, user mods that can remove them (because their tails are useful in potion making.

The journal system in the main game was a mess, but the expansion included an upgrade that will let you see any quests you are currently undertaking, so you could go away and return and pick up where you left off.

Icewind Dale has an incredibly rich, but linear, story. What's different from Baldur's Gate is that you create the entire party, so there is no banter or strife amongst the party. There are no Minsc nor Edwin nor Xan nor Tiax. This is like Might & Magic and Wizardry, where you create the whole party, but IMHO much better. If you like those games, and liked the gameplay of Baldur's Gate (and if you are a fan of the Spine of the World depicted in Salvatore's Drizzt books), I heartily recommend Icewind Dale.

[lno]

If you'd like to try your hand at an older game, Dynamix's Betrayal at Krondor was a turn-based RPG that I absolutely adored. Part of it was that at the time I was a fan of Raymond Feist's fantasy world in which the game is set, I'm sure.

The game was released by Sierra as freeware when the sequel Return to Krondor was published in 1997. You can find it as a free download scattered across the web. (Note that it is emphatically not abandonware. Sierra said "Here, take it, and why not buy the sequel?")

[Tapioca Dextrin]

Boo says:

Buy Balder's Gate II. It's a lot better than number one. Turn based or not, it's up to you. When they say multiple story lines, boy do they mean it. Open ended game play? Maybe not 100%, but it's about as close as you can get. The NPCs in your party do pretty much their own thing. Some parts of the game are only available to certain characters or NPCs.

[Gravity]

Have you looked at the Diablo games? I know that they're kind of old, and definately a bash-to-advance game, but I liked Diablo 2 quite a bit.

[Gravity]

Oh, and my wife and I are quite sim-happy. I've always like sim games. Some dark-ages type sims that you might like to try are Majesty and Dungeon Keeper 2.

I adore the dungeon Keeper games. So delightfully evil.

[Fibber McGee]

All the games I'd have reccomended have already been mentioned. There is one game you should definately look out for in the future though as it sounds like it might be right up your alley, though since it isn't out yet, I obviously can't really reccomend it.

The game is The Temple of Elemental Evil. It's from Troika, the team that did Arcanum. It's based on Gary Gygax's Greyhawk campaign setting, updated to 3rd Edition D&D rules, and it looks to be a straight stat-based RPG with turn-based combat.

Here, I'll let GameSpy tell you all about it. They'll do a better job than I.

http://www.gamespy.com/previews/february03/toeevil/

[D_Odds]

Dungeon Keeper 1 and 2 were a great deal of fun, and quite funny. However, they're not RPGs (not that you indicated they might be, just that is what the OP is looking for). Still, any game where you can slap around Dark Mistresses can't be bad :D (let the misogyny labels fly)

Tapioca, while I will never bash BG II, no game is as open ended as Daggerfall (The Elder Scrolls 2 with Arena being 1 and Morrowind as 3). BG II is a bit linear, especially after Ankthala, but is still my favorite RPG. So many different NPC configurations for so much fun, plus lots of really good fan mods greatly enhance its replay value.

[KidCharlemagne]

It's just that Morrowind's combat is mindless not that it's like an FPS. Do you like the pause action combat of D&D games? On looking back I see you didn't like Baldur's Gate (I was thinking of BG2). Baldur's Gate was just mowing a big tedious black lawn. Definately get BG2 you will LOVE it. It's the only game I got a strategy guide for - and it's the best one ever written for a game. The character kit's are so fun. There is NO doubt that this is the one for you.

[Fibber McGee]

Also, let me reccomend Septerra Core, a console style RPG for the PC which I thought was fun. A good game, not great, but worth playing. Of course, you'll have to go digging in the bargain bin to find it these days which might make it hard to find, but at least its cheap.

[Ol'Gaffer]

Originally posted by Fibber McGee


The game is The Temple of Elemental Evil. It's from Troika, the team that did Arcanum. It's based on Gary Gygax's Greyhawk campaign setting, updated to 3rd Edition D&D rules, and it looks to be a straight stat-based RPG with turn-based combat.



:eek:

Greatest. Module. Ever.

[soulmurk]

I remember that one thing my wife found annoying about BG was the combat system

Unfortunately (in her case; I personally never had a problem with it), the combat system itself has, to the best of my abilities to determine, not undergone any major changes.

The overhead, 3rd person view is the same; everything is real time unless you either set it to auto-pause at certain cues, or hit the space bar whenever you want to pause; casters still have a tendency to disregard personal safety when trying to accomodate line of sight for their uber-bestest-fry-em-up spells; bows and other ranged weapons have been toned down (if you had two or three archers in BG I, you were pretty much unstoppable); and the ability to cast 9th level mage and 7th level cleric spells (as well as the introduction of more powerful weapons/items suitable for higher level characters) of course alters combat, as well as higher level NPC's using their abilities appropriately. I love how they did dragons combat properly--wing buffet, spell, spell, spell, breathe, tail, spell, wing buffet... you get the idea.

What specifically did she not like about the combat system? Was it too awkward or not requiring enough strategy or... ?

Sometimes I felt that some of the battles were too easy (but really, how much strategy do you need to blast a tribe of kobolds or an unthinking golem?), but I challenge myself by not continuing past a fight/plot advancer unless I can make it through without ever having a single character die.

[NE Texan]

lno, the Krondor games were definitely good ones. I still have them around somewhere. Packed in a box in the basement, like as not (we've moved since we played them). Definitely the right type of suggestion, though.

Gravity, definitely not interested in the Diablo games, or similar, sorry. We've looked at them before - too much action, not enough plot/story for our tastes. I know they're extremely popular with other people, though, so I'm sure they're not going to miss us.

Sims, on the other hand... hmmm. My wife was really into Sim City and SC2K sometime back. Do you (or anyone else) want to give me more details on Majesty or Dungeon Keeper 2? I've got an open mind, just don't know much about them.

Tarantara, I didn't ignore you earlier; but I wanted to do some research and find out more about Vampire: the Masquerade. Unfortunately, their web site was kind of unhelpful at telling me what the game was like, and I didn't have more time at lunch to look at other sites. If you'd like to add some detail, I'm interested; otherwise, I'll look for more sites on the web this weekend.

Fibber McGee, Septerra Core rings a bell - I know that I've seen that in stores, and at least picked it up and considered it. I can't remember exactly why we don't have it, but we don't. Wanna say more about it?

soulmurk, it was very unfair of me to state that my wife wasn't thrilled by the BG combat system, without telling you why. Unfortunately, I can't correct this, because I don't remember the details. I do know that she didn't firmly dis-like the game, just that she didn't like it as well as others we've played. At any rate, I'll be asking her to remember what she thought about it, because I am leaning towards getting BG2. (Which is not to say that I won't get others as well, so that's not the end of this thread!)

I'm also still considering Wiz8, and after D_Odds' advocacy post, I'm reconsidering Icewind Dale. I had been under the impression it was light on plot/story; apparently that's not the case? KidCharlemagne indicated that it was combat heavy. I don't necessarily need character interaction within the party, but I am interested in interaction between the party and NPC's. Let me ask this: how much of the IceWind Dale story gets moved along because you kill things, and how much because you talk to the right people or solve things?

Hmmm. Why am I responding to all these people in the same post, instead of padding my post count by doing it separately?

[NE Texan]

Oh, and Fibber, The Temple of Elemental Evil sounds way cool - I'll look at that web site this weekend also. I still remember playing the Village of Hommlet module in pencil&paper D&D some mumble years ago, that was SUPPOSED to be a lead-in to the module "The Temple of Elemental Evil", which never materialized during the years I was playing. The lead-up was cool, though.

[NE Texan]

Oh, you know, I don't think I had connected Morrowind with Arena until this point. I think that if I had seen them written as Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind and Elder Scrolls 1: Arena, more often, I probably would have made the connection, but maybe not.

Anyway, I remember having Arena. We both played it for a while, couldn't see the point, or any plot, got bored, and gave up. I'm still a little concerned (from above descriptions) that would happen in Morrowind, as well, although it seems less likely.

It's academic, though - I just checked the system requirements, and it's not going to run on our PC. So I think I'll file Morrowind in the back of my mind (under "M", for "Maybe"), until the day comes that we replace the computer (which I know we'll do at some point, but not this month).

[D_Odds]

Icewind Dale gets triggered by NPC contact...afterall it is your job to save the Ten Towns. There aren't a lot of side quests, and most are at the beginning (so that you can toughen up from level 1). There is an expansion pack, Heart of Winter, and a free, very large, scenario download, Trials of the Luremaster. The latter is more puzzle-based; I'm sure there were puzzles in the original, just not many. There is significant NPC (but not party NPC) interaction throughout the game. It is more combat-oriented than Baldur's Gate, though not by much, and it is the same combat engine.

Dungeon Keeper is a fun and fulfilling god-sim. In it, you play the ultimate evil. You build subterranean dungeons, attract minions, and battle to defend your realm from other dungeon keepers and those pesky heroes (such as you play in M&M and Wizardry). Our local best buy has both games for about $10.00.

[D_Odds]

Yes, you need to configure 4 top-of-the-line video cards in an array to get a good framerate in Morrowind. Running it on a mainframe probably wouldn't hurt.

I never played Arena, but I think that Morrowind is easier to stay on course than it was in Daggerfall. It certainly is nowhere near as buggy as even the patched Daggerfall, probably due to its dual development for the XBox.

While this is certainly not an indictment of Wiz 8, I put it down after awhile to play HoMM 4 and replay Morrowind, this time with the expansion pack. And I much preferred Icewind Dale, which (the more I compare) has more NPC interaction.

[D_Odds]

Yes, you need to configure 4 top-of-the-line video cards in an array to get a good framerate in Morrowind. Running it on a mainframe probably wouldn't hurt.

I never played Arena, but I think that Morrowind is easier to stay on course than it was in Daggerfall. It certainly is nowhere near as buggy as even the patched Daggerfall, probably due to its dual development for the XBox.

While this is certainly not an indictment of Wiz 8, I put it down after awhile to play HoMM 4 and replay Morrowind, this time with the expansion pack. And I much preferred Icewind Dale, which (the more I compare) has more NPC interaction.

[ISiddiqui]

I do think you will enjoy Wizardry 8. I just played the demo, but it seemed really good. But I didn't have the time or money at the time to get it, and when I did, Morrowind was out :D.

[Chronos]

A word of warning concerning Baldur's Gate II: When making the game, they had to make some assumptions about how you played the original, so they went with what most folks did. If you played it differently, you might not like some of the "inconsistencies". For instance (no real spoilers, since you learn all this in the first five minutes or so), Imoen is dual-classed to mage, which means that she's not a super high-level thief like she was when I played, and Dynaheir (the mage accompianing Minsc) and what's-his-name the fighter who was married to Jaheira are both killed off, since apparently most folks playing the first one got tired of them. Also be advised that it's not third edition rules, it's second edition rules hacked to vaguely resemble third edition (3E didn't come out soon enough for them to be able to program it into the game, but they had some hints as to what was coming)

I've heard plenty of good things about Neverwinter Nights, by the way, but it's definitely geared towards online play, which you said you didn't want. If you play solo, your party will consist entirely of one main character and one henchman.

[Gravity]

Yep, D_Odds has it right about the Dungeon Keeper games. You are the evil overlord. You build your dungeon to attract certain creatures. You build more rooms to train the creatures and things like: If you build a library, you will get warlocks. The warlocks will make spells that you can use. If you build a workshop you will get trolls, the trolls use the workshops to make traps that will defend your dungeon from those pesky hero attackers. You go through scenarios to build up enough to beat the particular boss hero of the chapter that you're in. When that's done, you can either go on to the next scenario or keep playing in your little dungeon. The graphics are better in Dungeon Keeper 2 than in 1, and there are more monster types that you can attract.

Majesty is like this: you have a kingdom. There are a few hovels, one guard tower and your palace, basically. Then you play through senarios where you have to build up to beat the bad guys. Build a marketplace to get money, build a warriors guild to get fighters, build a temple to get healing spells and such.

These are both bargain-bin games now, as they've been out quite some time, and the system requirements are pretty low. Both are very fun if you like sim type games at all. I love them both.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

My two cents:

I hated, hated, hated Wizardry 8. The storyline was the hokey blend of fantasy/scifi that annoys me no end, and the combat in the game was horrifically slow. If I was attacked by three groups of nine wasps (a common occurance), it might take each wasp five seconds to resolve its action. 5x27=135 seconds, over two minutes, for the opposition to resolve its turn. Often I'd get in a fight, then I'd get up, go to the bathroom, go grab myself a drink, pick up a book, and come back to the computer --- and I STILL wouldn't be able to take my turn in combat yet. It drove me bonkers, and I eventually quit playing it.

Baldur's Gate II, OTOH, was great: in terms of character interaction, it's second only to Planescape:Torment in my experience. You can have long involved conversations with your party members, opening up side quests, falling in (and out of) love, and generally having a blast. Some of the side quests are tragic and awful; some are hilarious (viz. the Red Wizard's side quest). The game is extremely long. If you start to get bored in the first section, remember that you're not obligated to complete every side quest: remember that you know how to move the game forward whenever you want.

Icewind Dale was fun, but I disagree that the storyline is especially rich. I found it to be pretty stock fantasy gaming storyline; nothing happened in it that surprised me.

I'm playing Neverwinter Nights now, and it's reasonably fun, although the single-player storyline isn't particularly rich. There's really only one compelling character in it. I've not tried any of the user-created modules for it, but I've heard good things about them; indeed, the main strength of the game seems to be its customizability. Will your wife be able to use a fast internet connection? She may want to look into NWN, then.

And one recommendation that's a little out of your requested field, but I'm gonna make it anyway: Deus Ex, while primarily an action shooter, has a better roleplaying storyline than most roleplaying games do. I'm not normally a big fan of FPS games, but Deus Ex is a brilliant exception to that rule. You can probably get a copy for cheap now, and you might want to give it a try. But it is definitely outside of your requested field.

Oh -- and Betrayal at Krondor rocked! Find it for some awesome retro fun!

Daniel

[Wyld Stallyn]

...or make fun of me for asking

You dork!

sorry, no one else did it yet

ok, back to playing emulated FF1 on Nesticle, with the ill-advised party of 2 fighters and 2 thieves.

[NE Texan]

Originally posted by Chronos
If you played it differently, you might not like some of the "inconsistencies".
That wouldn't bug us at all - we're used to it from all the Ultima games, after all.
Also be advised that it's not third edition rules, it's second edition rules
Uh... yeah... Well, I've never really seen either 2nd or 3rd edition rules on paper, only derivatives of them in the computer games; and the difference will still be considerably smaller than the difference between any of these games and the non-D&D based ones, so that won't bug us in the least. In fact, we may not notice it in that context at all.
I've heard plenty of good things about Neverwinter Nights, by the way, but it's definitely geared towards online play, which you said you didn't want.
Nope, definitely not. Online play seems to be "the wave of the present", but it's just not to our tastes. It's really a bummer to us that the games all seem to be going to on-line only series (our favorites, after all, were the Ultima and Might and Magic series).

We also thought Chronos Trigger was fun. ;)

[Tapioca Dextrin]

And if you are tempted by Dungeon Siege, just say no. Gods preserve us was that a stinker. Pretty, but P U ! IMHO, of course.

[lno]

If you liked SimCity, you may want to pick up Tropico, which is, uh, erm... SimCuba, basically. You are able to pick certain qualities of your leader (unless playing in a pre-built scenario), like Paranoid, Installed by KGB, Scholarly, Flatulent, Capitalist Rebellion, and so on.

It's amusing, and the game plus expansion (Paradise Island, put together to form the Mucho Macho combo) is $30 at Amazon. You may be able to find it cheaper locally.

Few things as fun as hearing your advisor say "Good morning, el Presidente. May I say you are looking particularly powerful today?"

Or deciding that a certain political opponent has become too uppity, and sending armed guards to shoot her down in the street and then invalidating the next election...

[NE Texan]

Originally posted by Wyld Stallyn
You dork!
Cite? ;)

Actually, I put that there to encourage tangents about whether there were or were not plenty of good RPGs out there, but what the heck. It wouldn't be this board without someone calling names. (snif) I feel so included. (snif)

ok, back to playing emulated FF1 on Nesticle,
Oooh, I remember FF1 on the Nintendo. Long time ago. (At least, it's probably the same game, I know they played some tricks with the numbering between the Japanese versions and the American versions.)

[ArrMatey!]

Originally posted by lno
If you liked SimCity, you may want to pick up Tropico, which is, uh, erm... SimCuba, basically. You are able to pick certain qualities of your leader (unless playing in a pre-built scenario), like Paranoid, Installed by KGB, Scholarly, Flatulent, Capitalist Rebellion, and so on.


Flatulent?!?! :eek:

Do I wanna know how that affects the game?

[Tarantara]

"Kindred:The Embraced" was a short-lived but excellent TV series that can give you a taste of the game. The game begins with our hero, Cristof, a mortal crusader in medieval Prague. He falls in love with a nun, Anezka, who is nursing him back to health from a battle wound. The first part involves ridding the silver mines of a Vampire and her minions. Once this is done, Cristof is "embraced" by the leader of the Bruja vampires. There are several different clans of vampires: Bruja, Ventrue, Gangrel, Tzimisce, Nosferatu, Cappadocian, Giovanni, Malkavian, Tremere, and Lasombra. As you progress, you acquire more ally characters in your group. Each clan has unique spells or "discipines" that increase in strength with experience. Using them expends blood, which must be replenished from mortals or other vampires. If you drain a mortal to the point of death, you lose "humanity," which has repercussions down the line. (sort of a "catch and release" policy.)
As you acquire treasure, you can buy better armor, weapons, and magic items. The plot ranges through Vienna to modern London and the New York. There are many "mini-quests" within the larger quest of finding Anezka. Sunlight, of course, will inflict damage on your characters. They will all follow the main character's lead unless they are instructed to hold their position. The graphics are 3d.

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by Tarantara
A favorite that I've played to the end several times. Cool graphics. You have to be careful not to let your "Humanity" level fall if you want the "happy" ending.

Feh, it's not really an RPG. It's more like Diablo with some fancier graphics and pre-generated characters. Keeping your humanity up was easy, you just had to choose the obviously non-monstrous conversation option when it gave you a choice, which is about 5 times in the entire game.

I recomend Arcanum - it can be played turn-based, has a huge world, an interesting setting (the industrial revolution has come to a typical fantasy world), good story, and an awesome character generation system.

[Badtz Maru]

There is an upcoming game that looks good, too. I believe it's called 'Lionheart'. It's got a fantasy setting, but with a historical background - during the Crusades someone gathered together certain artifacts that opened a door between our world and one inhabited by spirits, elves, monsters, etc. The game is set in the 16th century, you meet many historical figures (like Shakespear) from that timeframe, but the world is very different - there is a powerful Christian/Muslim alliance that is the result of the opposing sides joining forces to drive back the supernatural invaders after they were released, some countries have been taken over by non-humans, etc.

It has a character generation system similar to that used in the Fallout games and Arcanum, and is supposed to be very open-ended.

[Kivick]

I am an RPG gamer at heart. THo my favorite is city building (My wife and I love Sim City 4)

*ducks the geek targeted rotten eggs*

Diablo 2 with Lord of Destruction Expansion: My wife and I have been playing this since it originally came out. It is an excellant RPG I love it for its "American" feel (no purple hair heros with over sized swords). It is great for team work, has stats, TONS of items and magic but is action oriented. Can be played on a LAN or over the internet. (Side story: A while back my wife and I were having trouble and we slightly fought about who would get the magic items we found on Blizzard's Battle.net Realms.) Worse thing is you need 2 copies to play on Battle.net at the same time.

Never Winter Nights: Is IMHO the biggest dissapointment in the history of video games. Not that it is a bad game but that I had been reading about it for 3 years before it was released and had such high hopes for it. Still a great game tho. 3rd edition rules action oriented but can pause in mid action to figure out what to do next.

Dungeon Seige: Another dissapointment but fun for a while

Morrowind: A great game but single player only. IMHO this ruined it for me. That and the fact that I always felt like I was just running from town to town never really accomplishing anything.

[Rabid_Squirrel]

Ahh, Diablo II. It's usually a frenzied rush as me and my flatmate massivly twink our characters, powergame through it and chomp throught the monsters in a mad rush to be the first to pick up the uniques items.

Hey NE Texan, forgot to mention The Underdogs (http://www.the-underdogs.org/). Has heaps of abandonware games you can download on it, and you'll find a lot of old-school titles there.

[NE Texan]

Thanks for all the great suggestions. If I may be so bold as to nudge the topic space a little:
Originally posted by Rabid_Squirrel
You could try Neverwinter Nights. <clip> ... but there are some great user-made campaign ...<clip>.
Originally posted by DanielWithrow
...the main strength of the game seems to be its customizability. Will your wife be able to use a fast internet connection? She may want to look into NWN, then.
Originally posted by Eric_Balrog
<wrt. Diablo - snip>...Can be played on a LAN or over the internet.

I know it's easy to miss in my OP, and again in one of my later replies, but I'm really not interested in on-line gaming. At all. Won't buy one, won't play it. Let me now add to that, that I'm not very interested in games that aren't good enough out of the box, but have these great user-generated modules... No, I'm just looking for a single-player, single-computer game that's fun to play on installation. On the other hand, if you want to make those recommendations in case someone else reads the thread, I don't really object (and couldn't enforce it if I did). I just wanted to let you know that's not what I'm looking for.

(Back on the soapbox again)
I understand that online gaming is really popular, but does that mean that they can't still make single-player games anymore? I seem to be in an ever-dwindling minority here, but I really prefer that if I spend money on a game, you can play it out of the box - it doesn't need user expansions or an internet connection. Not that there's anything wrong with those games, they just aren't what I'm willing to spend my money on.
(Done with the lame rant, and back off the soapbox.)

By the way, I mean no offense to the quoted posters, who I appreciate giving their thoughts - I just used their posts as a jumping off point for a general statement.

[NE Texan]

I'm beginning to wonder if I have Diablo mixed up with some other game, so I'm going to ask for clarification.

Gravity and Eric_Balrog both suggested Diablo (specifically II) as a good rpg, and Rabid_Squirrel mentioned that he's played it, also. I was under the impression that Diablo was a "shoot-em-up" game - you go through progressive levels killing everything in sight, without interacting with NPC's, solving quests, or having much of a story. Do I have the description of the game wrong, or am I just running into the (already-known) fact that different people have different ideas of what an RPG is? Because if I have the summary of the game correct, it's not really what I have in mind when I ask for an RPG recommendation.

I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong - please correct me if I have the description of the game wrong.

[NE Texan]

Badtz Maru, thanks for the recommendation of Lionheart - I'll definitely look into that, along with Fibber's suggestion of Temple.

In fact, we'll probably get a new computer sometime within the next year (my son's computer died, and I'm having trouble finding an adequate replacement for the power supply, so there's a certain amount of pressure to just buy a new one and hand down the old one). That'll probably be the right time to buy the latest and greatest games, and rethink Morrowind (and see if I can find a copy of Ultima 9).

Arcanum was a good suggestion - but one we have. My wife finished it. I looked at it, and want to start it next time I have free time (like that happens). I can see that it's the technology part that turned my wife off, but that doesn't bother me.

Miscellaneous replies:

I'll definitely be looking into BG2. I'll probably look for Wizardry 8, and Dungeon Keeper.

I'm leaning away from Majesty - not that it sounds bad, but it seems like it's in the same vein as the HOMM series, and we're not finished with/tired of those yet.

Still pondering Vampire and Septerra Core.

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by NE Texan
I'm beginning to wonder if I have Diablo mixed up with some other game, so I'm going to ask for clarification.

Gravity and Eric_Balrog both suggested Diablo (specifically II) as a good rpg, and Rabid_Squirrel mentioned that he's played it, also. I was under the impression that Diablo was a "shoot-em-up" game - you go through progressive levels killing everything in sight, without interacting with NPC's, solving quests, or having much of a story. Do I have the description of the game wrong, or am I just running into the (already-known) fact that different people have different ideas of what an RPG is? Because if I have the summary of the game correct, it's not really what I have in mind when I ask for an RPG recommendation.

I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong - please correct me if I have the description of the game wrong.

It's classified as an action/RPG. There are quests given at various points (mostly 'kill Zaknar' or 'return my pub sign stolen by demons'), and there is a background story, but most NPCs you can interact with are all gathered in town levels, and the vast majority of the game is going through random dungeons killing hordes of monsters to build up XP and get random loot to use or sell back in town. The action part is because you have to click on the monsters you have to attack, hit hotkeys for special attacks or items, all in rather fast-paced realtime combat. It's probably got more story to it than a lot of early true RPGs (ala Wizardry), but that's not the point of the game. Diablo 2 allows you to hire NPCs who will follow you around and help you fight, but doesn't change the gameplay much otherwise.

It's not my cup of tea, but it does have RPG elements, especially when people start playing online.

Morrowind has some action elements too, but the game is relatively slow-paced in combat and it doesn't require much skill to click attack while facing your enemy (though ranged combat, whether bows or spells, may require leading a running target from time to time). It has a LOT more role-playing elements, though, and your success in combat has a lot more to do with your characters skills and equipment than your skill at clicking. Unfortunately, it sounds like your system probably couldn't run it. Look into it in a couple of years when a system capable of running it is cheap and the game is in the bargain bin, it's got a LOT to it.

[Lute Skywatcher]

Originally posted by Badtz Maru
It's classified as an action/RPG. There are quests given at various points (mostly 'kill Zaknar' or 'return my pub sign stolen by demons'), and there is a background story, but most NPCs you can interact with are all gathered in town levels, and the vast majority of the game is going through random dungeons killing hordes of monsters to build up XP and get random loot to use or sell back in town. The action part is because you have to click on the monsters you have to attack, hit hotkeys for special attacks or items, all in rather fast-paced realtime combat. It's probably got more story to it than a lot of early true RPGs (ala Wizardry), but that's not the point of the game. Diablo 2 allows you to hire NPCs who will follow you around and help you fight, but doesn't change the gameplay much otherwise. Don't forget the spellcasting elements, especially those of the sorceress. Neverwinter Nights and Diablo II share some elements, such as being able to hire companion NPCs and the point & click attack style but NWN has many more quests. Your companion NPC will also drop hints of a quest specific to that particular NPC but won't reveal the entire quest until your character is strong enough.

[NE Texan]

Originally posted by Badtz Maru
It's [ie. Diablo] classified as an action/RPG. (...)
Morrowind ... has a LOT more role-playing elements, though, and your success in combat has a lot more to do with your characters skills and equipment than your skill at clicking.

You've nailed it, Badtz Maru. I'm not the least bit interested in games where your success has more to do with your skill in clicking than in your strategy in building your character. Or, to put it another way: I'm only interested in computer RPG's that are NOT action/RPGs. (Don't worry - plenty of other people like them, they're not going bankrupt from losing my business.)

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

I realized you weren't interested in online gaming, but I didn't realize you weren't interested in games that require customization to be fun. My bad.

I just finished playing Neverwinter Nights, and I enjoyed it reasonably well. Again, it's not a great storyline, but the graphics are pretty, and character customization is a lot of the game's fun. I recommended getting modules online because I've heard that some of those modules have good stories on top the good character-building engine. I rarely play any games online myself, and don't buy games that depend on online play.

Diablo2 DOES have a fair amount of character customization: every time you go up a level, you get to choose different skills from different skill trees, and finding a good balance of ksills (some of which cost magic and some of which don't) is part of the game's challenge. You can make a necromancer who focuses on blowing up the corpses of the dead, or who focuses on bone-daggers, or who focuses on golems, or who focuses on raising the dead to serve his bidding, for example. There are a lot of ways to play the game.

Deus Ex, another action/RPG, is somewhat similar. You gain the ability to customize your character at several points through the game, and you can choose to play stealthily or mechanically or guns-blazingly or in a few other fashions.

I forget if I said this above, but Vampire: the Masquerade had (for me) incredibly boring game play. It and Wizardry 8 both suffered from the ultimate weapon problem: both games had tactics you could achieve fairly early on that were much better than any other tactics for nearly every battle. I much prefer games that require different appraoches to different encounters. And Vampire is as much of an action game as Deus Ex: it's (I think) a third-person real-time action game.

Have you ever played the old Escape from Monkey Island games, or Full Throttle, or Grim Fandango? These games are all brilliant. Although you don't really build a character in any of them, they're funny, story-driven games, kinda like Zork except with a much better sense of humor.

Daniel

[Lute Skywatcher]

Originally posted by Rabid_Squirrel
Hey NE Texan, forgot to mention The Underdogs (http://www.the-underdogs.org/). Has heaps of abandonware games you can download on it, and you'll find a lot of old-school titles there. Careful with abandonware links. The copyright owners of the games listed there might start enforcing their copyright.

[Lute Skywatcher]

Originally posted by NE Texan
(Back on the soapbox again)
I understand that online gaming is really popular, but does that mean that they can't still make single-player games anymore? I seem to be in an ever-dwindling minority here, but I really prefer that if I spend money on a game, you can play it out of the box - it doesn't need user expansions or an internet connection. Not that there's anything wrong with those games, they just aren't what I'm willing to spend my money on.
(Done with the lame rant, and back off the soapbox.) Same here. I don't really have any time to invest in an online game so I avoid those. I especially avoid ones where any sort of fee is involved (e.g.: EverQuest, Motor City Online). Neverwinter Nights and the Diablo series can be played either way but those who do play online will probably get the most enjoyment. Those who play Diablo I or II online will collect better equipment quicker than solo players without using a cheat program to speed up the process. There are also solo player add-ons for NWN. Morrowind and Dungeon Seige have map editors too but I don't know much about them. I believe the editor for Dungeon Seige has to be downloaded from its website.

[DrDeth]

Diablo is fun. But it is far more hack n slash than anything like "roleplaying". Baldursgate had some more roleplaying elements. Icewind dale had almost none.

Daggerfall was very interesting. I liked the quests & the open ended design. However, the bugs made it impossible to finish.

For fun, with more roleplaying, and some great humor, I can steer you towards the "Quest for Glory" series (Sierra). Ok, the first, although a classic, is dated, and a bit stereotypical. The last one, with romance, etc gets very close to a real roleplaying game.

[DrDeth]

Left off... but start with #1, and play them through. You can likely buy them as a set, I suggest it.

[Badtz Maru]

If you get Neverwinter Nights, you can try my module, Deke's Dungeon Crawl (http://nwvault.ign.com/features/reviews/data/1026158289632.shtml). It's pretty silly, but lots of people like it, and you get to kill a character named after my soon-to-be ex-wife. ;) It's pretty dated, but when I finished it (about a month after the game came out) it was somewhat ahead of the curve as far as features and size go.

[Asperity]

Mmm, old-style RPGs. Most of the ones out lately have a bit too much in the way of reflexes required to be much fun for me. Baldur's Gate II was better after I turned on all the "pause game here" options, but still a little annoying. And then most of the other newish ones won't run on the machines I've got right now at all, so I can't offer opinions there.

My suggestion for something recent that's more like the old Ultima games would be the Avernum series or anything else from Spiderweb Software (http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/). Those are lots of fun (and cheap, too), with a big honking world full of characters and places to explore and stuff to do. The graphics aren't all that exciting, but they're not painful to look at. The demos aren't stingy, either, and there's plenty of good gameplay just in those. Anyway, that's where I get my single-player RPG-with-interesting-story fix now that there's not really anything on the non-shareware market comparable to, say, Ultima 6.