The Jedi are scamming you!

[tracer]

Citizens of the Galaxy, I'm afraid to say you are the victims of a thousand-generation-old scam. "The Force" is nothing but an imaginary energy field, concocted as feel-good nonsense for members of the Jedi Order and as a way for the Jedi to consolidate their theocracy.

Read all about it at http://www.netcom.com/~rogermw/force_skeptics.html

(Well, okay, you can't really read all about it on that webpage, because the damn thing is still under construction, but you'll get the general gist.)

In an age that has seen the miracles of Bacta tanks, repulsorlifts, hyperdrives, and the Death Star, why is it that we still feel the need to believe in hokey religions and ancient weapons?

[The_Peyote_Coyote]

To paraphrase P.T. Barnum: "There's a sucker born every nanosecond." :D

[Dewey Cheatem Undhow]

Why should the Jedi be any different from George Lucas?

[tracer]

At least George Lucas doesn't cut off dissenters' hands with a light saber (http://members.tripod.com/~Adam_P_B/starwarshands/).

[Osip]

Originally posted by tracer
At least George Lucas doesn't cut off dissenters' hands with a light saber (http://members.tripod.com/~Adam_P_B/starwarshands/).

Oh and how do you what excatly goes on at skywalker ranch?

there are less stories coming out of that place than neverland ranch. Lets face it Lucas has the help SCARED!

[Bryan Ekers]

Y'know when that guy in Trainspotting was loaded on heroin, he believed he was a Jedi...

[tracer]

He's not the only one: http://www.jediism.org/
(The scary thing is, those guys are serious about it.)

[BraheSilver]

Sir, I have run into these Force freaks on more than one occaision, and have lived to tell the tale.

Testimonial: I lost seventy-eight straight hands at Sabacc the other day. The big winner? Some squeaky dink with a nerf-tail haircut and a big brown robe. Everytime I'll get set for a perfect twenty-three, he'd say something like "I need to change my position, my cloak's getting folded," and just like that I'd find that I'd thrown my best cards to the heap completely without realizing it. Probably explains why he didn't pay for a single round of lomin-ale all night too.

Another: Last month Davin and I were out on a routine air patrol of the compound with the rest of the guys, and some spice-sucker hops out of the trees in the goofiest little repulsorcraft and starts spraying the skies with blaster fire. Now we're not new to the concept of being shot at, so Davin forms up on my seven and we sweep off to the left to come at this guy from behind. Jeeve and Splatley are weaving around to distract him, the sirens start wailing, and all our automated defenses go on full bore. The autoturbolasers are firing, Davin's firing, I'm firing, and this guy jinks that craft around like all our shots are slower than a Hutt mating. I mean, I'm rated silver for close-range atmo combat in the TIE, and I know for a fact Davin's parents had him tinkered with as a kid to give him reflexes (I've seen him blasting fish as they hop out of the ocean when we go surface-skimming at half-speed), but we just can't hit him. The way he's weaving around, it's like he knows we aren't going to him and is just playing around to make us lose our cool. Sure enough, Jeeve gets frustrated and comes after him way way too fast, and the little ship pulls some kinda maneuver I'd never seen and Jeeve gets plastered right in the port collector array by one of our surface turrets. He went down in a spin and didn't recover.
So with Jeeve gone, this little craft (now that I think of it, I think it may have been one of those sporty jobs from the Corporate Sector) goes right behind Splatley and puts one good shot into his engines, and ol' Splat is left with his repulsors and no steering or throttle control - he shoots straight out of the furball, and we didn't see him until three days later when he walked back to the gates with his helmet in one hand and his flight stick still in the other. By this time Flight Command figures this guy's a real threat, so they start closing the dome to the compound, but right before it shuts, he slips the ship in there and we're left buzzing around feeling like idiots because we can't do anything. Right before the dome shut on him, I got a quick look into his canopy. What did I see? Brown robe. I heard later that the pilot managed to wipe out half a platoon of stormtroopers and stole our key codes for the month before disappearing into the forest.

So don't tell me that there's no Jedi. If you're inferring that the entire third wing of Crimson Squadron is a bunch of no-skill farmboys who can't hit a single intruder, you'll be glad I'm only here on holo instead of in person. Worse yet, you dishonor those who fell to their wicked powers.

Rest in peace, Jeeve. We'll blast that Jedi scum yet.

[brianjedi]

I simply will not stand by and listen to this blatant character assassination. You, sir, are not fit to be wampa food.

[Jedi mind trick] The Jedi are not a scam...Buy Amway...Oswald acted alone...Cecil Adams really exists...[/Jedi Mind Trick}

[tracer]

I'm not saying the members of the Jedi order don't have finely-honed combat skills and some dirty tricks of hypnotic suggestion.

What I am saying is that you don't need "the Force" to explain any of it. It's all a bunch of simple tricks and nonsense.

[Bryan Ekers]

Just give me a blaster by my side.

[Kat]

Jedi Schmedi. Who needs the Force, I got me a Wookiee... ;)

[Snooooopy]

I knew those Australians were dangerous ...

[SPOOFE]

In an age that has seen the miracles of Bacta tanks, repulsorlifts, hyperdrives, and the Death Star, why is it that we still feel the need to believe in hokey religions and ancient weapons?
Because Ysalamiri can't counter the effects of a repulsorlift...

[Captain Amazing]

Don't try and frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, brianjedi. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to find the Rebel's hidden fort..."

[SPOOFE]

What I am saying is that you don't need "the Force" to explain any of it.
Except for the titanic Force-storms that Palpatine summoned... or the mindwashing of potentially trillions of beings when he buried the Lusankya underneath Coruscant...

Remember, the Force is an ability that (midichlorians aside)Palpatine managed to quantify with his little "Force-detection paddles", introduced in KJA's Jedi Academy Trilogy.

[brianjedi]

Hey, Captain Amazing.

<click>

ssssshhh---hummmmmmmmmmm

Perhaps my lightsaber will change your opinion on this "ancient religion."

[Alcibiades]

We never war-gamed this at the Imperial Stormtrooper Academy.

[ResIpsaLoquitor]

C'mon. How do you explain the Shroud of Dagobah? The image on there looks EXACTLY like Yoda would have at the moment of his death.

And where's the body?

[kplmonkeypants]

yeah... ummmmm.. jedi's suck... and so does star wars anything with a big hairy retard as a character is a STUPID MOVIE!!!! well that is just my opinion on george lucas's "vision"...

peace out,
-Kiel-

[tracer]

Originally posted by SPOOFE
Because Ysalamiri can't counter the effects of a repulsorlift...
Oh, that[/] Jedi claim would surely convince the non-believer. "The Force is real, and I can prove it by [b]not using any of my powers within 4 meters if this Ysalamir!"

The Jedi are themselves gullible to their own misguided beliefs. They believe their "powers" won't work near an Ysalamir, so the get a kind of psychological "paralysis" around them that prevents them from thumbing their hidden repulsorlift controls. It's plain old voodoo, just like their own ability to influence the "weak-minded" only in reverse.

[tracer]

Originally posted by SPOOFE
Except for the titanic Force-storms that Palpatine summoned... or the mindwashing of potentially trillions of beings when he buried the Lusankya underneath Coruscant...

Remember, the Force is an ability that (midichlorians aside)Palpatine managed to quantify with his little "Force-detection paddles", introduced in KJA's Jedi Academy Trilogy.
Palpatine, Palpatine, Palpatine. The guy's an Evil Emperor! You gonna believe everything he says? I suppose if he told you that the first Death Star was just a rumor, and that he blew up Alderaan with his mind, you'd believe him too!

"Force storms" can be duplicated with existing technology. Mindwashing can be done with any number of drugs. Force-detection paddles can say anything their designers want them to say. Han Solo was right: It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.

[tracer]

Originally posted by brianjedi
I simply will not stand by and listen to this blatant character assassination. You, sir, are not fit to be wampa food.

[Jedi mind trick] The Jedi are not a scam...Buy Amway...Oswald acted alone...Cecil Adams really exists...[/Jedi Mind Trick}
Uh huh. And why don't you take James Randi up on his million-dollar Jedi powers challenge then, huh?

Oh, right, I forgot. "James Randi was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force." That's the Jedi Order's standard answer for everything, isn't it?

[elf6c]

I am disturbed by your lack of faith. . .

[tracer]

You'll notice that all of Vader's "telekinetic choking" victims all had to be aware that Vader was choking them. It's just like voodoo: If you believe that those pins being stuck into the voodoo doll really can hurting you, you'll feel the pain -- but not if you don't know that the voodoo ceremony was performed. Vader has such an intimidating presence that he could probably convince someone to keel over and die just from suggesting it.

[ResIpsaLoquitor]

How does an 9 year-old human boy win a podrace without the force? No other human could do it.

[Miller]

Originally posted by SPOOFE
Because Ysalamiri can't counter the effects of a repulsorlift...

Yeah, that's always the excuse. "Oh, sure, I can leap twenty feet straght up in the air and parry blaster bolts anytime I want. What? Do it now? Umm... There must be a ysalamiri somewhere in this room!"

[BuckleberryFerry]

Originally posted by elf6c
I am disturbed by your lack of faith. . .

NITPICK!

It's acutally Your lack of faith disturbs me.

/NITPICK!

[tracer]

You sure you don't mean, "I find your lack of faith disturbing"?

(Not that it matters. Of course Vader would find someone's lack of faith disturbing. Non-believers might expose him for the charlatan he is.)

[Earthling]

Uhhh...

I just sent Princess Leia my bank account number (http://www.davidchess.com/words/log.20021004.html#20021009). Have I been scammed? What should I do now?

[tracer]

HEH! That's beautiful, Earthling!

[tracer]

Originally posted by ResIpsaLoquitor
How does an 9 year-old human boy win a podrace without the force? No other human could do it.
That pod race was rigged. Two Jedi bet everything they had on the oucome of the race. Whenever there are Jedi involved, you can bet there will be dirty dealings afoot.

[Alcibiades]

Originally posted by Earthling
Uhhh...

I just sent Princess Leia my bank account number (http://www.davidchess.com/words/log.20021004.html#20021009). Have I been scammed? What should I do now?

Now that is clever.

[elf6c]

Doh!!!

And according to IMDB, its:

Darth Vader: I find your lack of faith disturbing.

http://us.imdb.com/Quotes?0076759

[Hijacky goodness]Of course I ran across this old favorite:

[R2-D2 and Chewbacca are playing the holographic game aboard the Millennium Falcon.]
Chewbacca: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrgh!!
C-3PO: He made a fair move. Screaming about it can't help you.
Han Solo: Let him have it. It's not wise to upset a Wookiee.
C-3PO: But sir, nobody worries about upsetting a droid.
Han Solo: That's 'cause droids don't pull people's arms out of their sockets when they lose. Wookiees are known to do that.
Chewbacca: Grrf.
C-3PO: I see your point, sir. I suggest a new strategy, R2: let the Wookiee win.

[/Hijacky goodness]

[tracer]

And notice, Chewbacca doesn't need "the Force" to pull anybody's arms out of their sockets, either!

[BuckleberryFerry]

Originally posted by tracer
You sure you don't mean, "I find your lack of faith disturbing"?

(Not that it matters. Of course Vader would find someone's lack of faith disturbing. Non-believers might expose him for the charlatan he is.)

Aw, DAMMIT! :head to desk contact repeatedly:

[Second Star to the Right]

Originally posted by kplmonkeypants
yeah... ummmmm.. jedi's suck... and so does star wars anything with a big hairy retard as a character is a STUPID MOVIE!!!! well that is just my opinion on george lucas's "vision"...

peace out,
-Kiel-




You don't believe in the Force, do you?


:)

[Tuckerfan]

Originally posted by tracer
He's not the only one: http://www.jediism.org/
(The scary thing is, those guys are serious about it.) As a friend of mine said after looking at that site, "Getting laid will fix that."

[Marley23]

The Jedi are scamming me? Bullshit. George Lucas is scamming me. I paid $8 to see Attack of the Clones and probably that much to see The Phantom Menace. He owes me at least $20 plus damages to my brain from watching that crap.

[Michael Ellis]

Oh great, the Dark Side ressurected this thread.

[SPOOFE]

The Jedi are themselves gullible to their own misguided beliefs. They believe their "powers" won't work near an Ysalamir, so the get a kind of psychological "paralysis" around them that prevents them from thumbing their hidden repulsorlift controls.
Gimme some positive evidence that it was done by repulsorlifts, dude. Gimme some explanation for precognition. Gimme some explanation on the mechanism that allows Jedi to deflect blaster bolts.

That's how the skeptic works, yo. We have the evidence of Jedi performing miracles. YOU have to provide counter-evidence. So far, you're just giving me vague assumptions on how it MIGHT be done - "Yoda used a repulsorlift!" Okay, it's possible he did. Where was this repulsorlift? What evidence do you have that he used it?

None.

How did Cihlgal (or however her name is spelt) heal Mon Mothma from a nanotech virus? Sure, you might claim that she was in cahoots with the Imperial commander that infected the Chief of State... but now you're getting into the realm of nutcase conspiracy theorist.

No, check that. You've gone well beyond the realm of conspiracy theorist, buckaroo. Is it incredible? Sure. But extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Frankly, I'm well-satisfied by the evidence that's come to light.

Palpatine, Palpatine, Palpatine. The guy's an Evil Emperor! You gonna believe everything he says?
Nope. But I'll believe the trillion or so people who witnessed it.

"Force storms" can be duplicated with existing technology.
Yeah? What technology would that be?

Face it, Tracer, you're just one of those naysayers who spout contrarian indoctrination just for the sake of getting attention. Sure, it might be possible that the Jedi simply have access to technology that is miniaturized beyond the realm of anything else available anywhere else in the galaxy... sure, it might be possible that they've managed to make this technology magically undetectable to any sort of scanner... sure, it might be possible that they've learned how to shrink repulsorlifts down to molecular size and learned how to give them infinite power sources... but frankly, your alternate theory sounds FAR more implausible than the assumption that these select few possess access to some supernatural ability.

(Note: Take this post seriously at your own risk.)

[tracer]

You're right when you say that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. But where is this "extraordinary evidence" FOR the Force? Huh? You might be satisfied by the "evidence" that's come to light, but need I remind you of how many cults-of-personality there have been in the history of the Galaxy that turned out to be nothing more than the product of a gullible public? People were "convinced" by Uri Geller's stage magic tricks, too.

The Jedi wouldn't need to shrink repulsorlifts down to molecular size -- just down small enough to hide in a robe. Have you seen how big and floppy those Jedi robes are? You could practically hide a TIE fighter in there!

Plus, let's not forget just how much of public opinion is swayed by stories of the Jedi's "powers." How many of these stories do we know actually happened? Sure, we've all heard about how the Jedi used their powers of telekinesis to fight great battles, but when was the last time you actually saw a Jedi levitating an object? Were you standing close enough that you could tell there was no repulsorlift involved? Hmmm? And have you ever seen a Jedi deflect a blaster bolt with his light saber, other than in one of those "streetcorner demonstrations" on the streets of Coruscant that are all staged with carefully choreographed blaster shots?

And I remind you again that no Jedi has ever won James Randi's million-credit prize for demonstrating real Jedi powers.

[smiling bandit]

But where is this "extraordinary evidence" FOR the Force?

Well, for one, the fact that they can actually do everything the brochure says they can. And no one has yet found evidence for any other interpretation.

Sure, we've all heard about how the Jedi used their powers of telekinesis to fight great battles, but when was the last time you actually saw a Jedi levitating an object?

Yesterday. Probably will see it again today.

What, you think all those Jedi kids cook for themselves? Nosirree, bob, they need some parental guidance and some good food. PLus, none of the Jedi ever want to take them to play Blurnsball. Anyway, they are always levitating the ketchup and forks. Kids! Can't live with 'em, can't sacrifice 'em to the dark side.

And I remind you again that no Jedi has ever won James Randi's million-credit prize for demonstrating real Jedi powers.

That would more probably be due to the fact that the Jedi are in a galaxy far, far away and have not, to my knowledge, ever heard of James Randi. Aside fom the fact that the last Jedi I met would be horrifically old by now. PLus, who cares about a paltry million creds? They are state employees, man, everything's on the company card!

[Guinastasia]

I'd like to know-can one use the Force to scratch one's back?

[brianjedi]

Guin, yes. Yes I can.

[Guinastasia]

Cool. Pirates!

(See if anyone gets this!)

[Kantalooppi]

I suppose if he told you that the first Death Star was just a rumor, and that he blew up Alderaan with his mind, you'd believe him too!

What, you believe Alderaan was really blown up?

Come on. It's all a Jedish conspiracy.

[smiling bandit]

Humorous non-in characternote: According to the original Role Playing Game from WEG, Darth Vader was about strogn enough to actually move th death tar himseolf, and the Emporer, frankly, didn't need that big superlaser to blow up planets, either. :)

[SPOOFE]

The Jedi wouldn't need to shrink repulsorlifts down to molecular size -- just down small enough to hide in a robe. Have you seen how big and floppy those Jedi robes are? You could practically hide a TIE fighter in there!
A directed repulsor-tractor beam capable of lifting an X-wing would be far larger than Yoda himself. And we all saw, in footage that was approved by the Director-God himself, Yoda lift an X-wing with relative ease.

Care to explain that, my dear sir? How that level of miniaturization was accomplished?

And I remind you again that no Jedi has ever won James Randi's million-credit prize for demonstrating real Jedi powers.
You want me to believe that, over the course of 25,000 years, nobody has challenged a Jedi to prove his or her abilities? Sorry, buckaroo, but again... your alternative is far more incredulous than the possibility that they do have supernatural powers.

[tracer]

Originally posted by smiling bandit
Yesterday. Probably will see it again today.

What, you think all those Jedi kids cook for themselves? Nosirree, bob, they need some parental guidance and some good food. PLus, none of the Jedi ever want to take them to play Blurnsball. Anyway, they are always levitating the ketchup and forks. Kids! Can't live with 'em, can't sacrifice 'em to the dark side.
You're saying you actually do childcare work at one of the Jedi training compounds?

Ooh, tell me, is it true what they say about young Jedi who start to learn the force but are later judged to be too "risky" to continue their training? Do they really grind them up and serve them at the next meal as a "lesson" to all the would-be dissenters among them, or do they just quietly drop them into Coruscant's garbage incinerator system?

[tracer]

Originally posted by SPOOFE
A directed repulsor-tractor beam capable of lifting an X-wing would be far larger than Yoda himself. And we all saw, in footage that was approved by the Director-God himself, Yoda lift an X-wing with relative ease.

Care to explain that, my dear sir? How that level of miniaturization was accomplished?
From The Force Skeptics Page (http://home.netcom.com/~rogermw/force_skeptics.html):

"The one exception to this has been Yoda's demonstration of lifting an entire X-Wing fighter out of a swamp on Dagobah. An X-Wing fighter is certainly too heavy for a miniature repulsorlift to carry. But Yoda is known for his smooth-talking wiles, and it would be a grave mistake to assume that someone as crafty as this notorious Jedi Master didn't have a trick or two up his short sleeve. What trick did he pull? Well, isn't it obvious? An X-Wing fighter has its own built-in repulsor lifts! These built-in repulsors are what allow the X-Wing to hover-taxi into position for takeoff. (Military footage of the initial stages of the assault on the first Death Star at Yavin show this repulsorlift taxiing repeatedly.) Yoda's message of the Force isn't for the educated critic, it's for the gullible layman who may be ignorant of the fact that X-Wing fighers have their own high-powered repulsorlifts. While Yoda was standing on the shore and stretching out one hand toward the X-Wing fighter, his other hand (which the casual viewer would have been too distracted to notice) was thumbing a remote-control device that turned the fighter's repulsorlifts on. Voilá! A 'miracle'!"

[smiling bandit]

Ooh, tell me, is it true what they say about young Jedi who start to learn the force but are later judged to be too "risky" to continue their training? Do they really grind them up and serve them at the next meal as a "lesson" to all the would-be dissenters among them, or do they just quietly drop them into Coruscant's garbage incinerator system?

There aren't any failures that I ever saw. They are pretty demanding of their entries. You have to have just the right biological profile. And then they give you very intensive training. At any rate, I have seen some of the elder Jedi who quit, and they were simply allowed to walk away.

If you ever get a chance, apply to work there. They don't really care who you are or what you do so long as you get things done. Come to think of it, they don't interact much with anybody. They are really Ivory Tower types. Could probably do with a bit more history classes. But the kids are great.

was thumbing a remote-control device that turned the fighter's repulsorlifts on. Voilá! A 'miracle'!"

Yoda happens to have a remote control device that works on any fighter craft in the galaxy, including those built long after he went into monastic asceticism? And he teaches Luke to use it without actually lettig him in on the secret?

And you think "the Force" is harder to swallow?

[smiling bandit]

Ooh, tell me, is it true what they say about young Jedi who start to learn the force but are later judged to be too "risky" to continue their training? Do they really grind them up and serve them at the next meal as a "lesson" to all the would-be dissenters among them, or do they just quietly drop them into Coruscant's garbage incinerator system?

There aren't any failures that I ever saw. They are pretty demanding of their entries. You have to have just the right biological profile. And then they give you very intensive training. At any rate, I have seen some of the elder Jedi who quit, and they were simply allowed to walk away.

If you ever get a chance, apply to work there. They don't really care who you are or what you do so long as you get things done. Come to think of it, they don't interact much with anybody. They are really Ivory Tower types. Could probably do with a bit more history classes. But the kids are great.

was thumbing a remote-control device that turned the fighter's repulsorlifts on. Voilá! A 'miracle'!"

Yoda happens to have a remote control device that works on any fighter craft in the galaxy, including those built long after he went into monastic asceticism? And he teaches Luke to use it without actually letting him in on the secret?

And you think "the Force" is harder to swallow?

[tracer]

Originally posted by smiling bandit
There aren't any failures that I ever saw. They are pretty demanding of their entries. You have to have just the right biological profile.
None, whatsoever? Every single kid they accept for apprenticeship makes it all the way to Jedi Knight? No padawan ever, say, "succumbs to the dark side"?

Or is that just what they tell you? I'm sure with the number of training facilities across the Galaxy that some Jedi apprentices are reassigned from one facility to another during their training years. You could be eating any one of these "reassigned" padawans in that hamburger in your hand right now!

At any rate, I have seen some of the elder Jedi who quit, and they were simply allowed to walk away.
Sure, after they've had the years of brainwashing. (Except for the few who decide to spill the beans, whom the Order conveniently accuses of "falling to the dark side" and has to "destroy" -- with no witnesses, of course.)

Yoda happens to have a remote control device that works on any fighter craft in the galaxy, including those built long after he went into monastic asceticism? And he teaches Luke to use it without actually letting him in on the secret?

And you think "the Force" is harder to swallow?
In between the time Luke's X-Wing crash-landed on Dagobah, and the time Yoda "levitated" the fighter out of the swamp, he would've had plenty of time to mail-order the right kind of remote control device from ACME.

[smiling bandit]

None, whatsoever? Every single kid they accept for apprenticeship makes it all the way to Jedi Knight? No padawan ever, say, "succumbs to the dark side"?

Not that young. But honestly, there aren't very many of them, and the Jedi do have the whole galaxy to pick from.

Or is that just what they tell you? I'm sure with the number of training facilities across the Galaxy that some Jedi apprentices are reassigned from one facility to another during their training years.

There is only one facility.

You could be eating any one of these "reassigned" padawans in that hamburger in your hand right now!

Heck no! We only use the finest Grade A+ Nerf meat in our patties!

Sure, after they've had the years of brainwashing. (Except for the few who decide to spill the beans, whom the Order conveniently accuses of "falling to the dark side" and has to "destroy" -- with no witnesses, of course.)

I still send letters to a few of them. Two retired to get married and live the quiet life on some far-off farming world. One of them settled down to live next to my Aunt. I think he's got the hots for her! When it comes down to it, most Jedi leave for one of three reasons:

1) Conversion to utter evil.
2) Disatisfaction with the Jedi's monastic principles and the Republic
3) Sex

Guess which one has been the most popular?

Sure, after they've had the years of brainwashing.

Well, the Jedi and staff did kind of raise them completely. I'm not sure that counts as brainwashing.