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View Full Version : When do words REALLY rhyme?


jsb5048
04-23-2003, 01:49 PM
Does the sound have be similar throughout the whole end of each word?

For Ex: Report and Torque?

The "or" sound is the same but would e e cummings say they really rhyme?

This is a huge debate at work right now. Any reference to the "rules" of grammar would be appreciated.

Earl Snake-Hips Tucker
04-23-2003, 02:29 PM
When the last accented vowel and the rest following it sound alike. From OED.

astorian
04-23-2003, 02:38 PM
No matter what we say, songwriters and poets are going to keep on pretending that "self" rhymes with "else," and that "lady" rhymes with "baby." So, what's the point of arguing about it?

bradwalt
04-23-2003, 02:38 PM
A good question - I particularly object to mis-rhymes in song lyrics: sometimes the rhyme becomes "almost" acceptable because of bad diction on the part of the singer.

But "REPORT" and "TORQUE" do not rhyme by any stretch of the imagination; neither do "PORT" and "PORK"

Captain Amazing
04-23-2003, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by bradwalt
A good question - I particularly object to mis-rhymes in song lyrics: sometimes the rhyme becomes "almost" acceptable because of bad diction on the part of the singer.

But "REPORT" and "TORQUE" do not rhyme by any stretch of the imagination; neither do "PORT" and "PORK"

jsb5048
04-23-2003, 02:54 PM
I don't think they rhyme either. Does anyone have a grammar text they can refernce or something!! Heated opinions are running around here like crazy. It's a slow day at work.

Captain Amazing
04-23-2003, 03:00 PM
<Sigh> What I meant to say there is that "Report" and "Torque" is an example of assonance, and "Port" and "Pork" and example of alliteration, both of which are kinds of rhyme.

Earl Snake-Hips Tucker
04-23-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by jsb5048
I don't think they rhyme either. Does anyone have a grammar text they can refernce or something!! Heated opinions are running around here like crazy. It's a slow day at work.

So OED wasn't good enough for you?

WordMan
04-23-2003, 03:19 PM
Earl (love the username, by the way),

Maybe our OP'er jsb5048 either didn't catch the reference to the Oxford English Dictionary, or didn't know what OED stood for.

I tried to find the OED definition online, but they only allow access by subscription. At Merriam-Webster they state:

: correspondence in terminal sounds of units of composition or utterance (as two or more words or lines of verse) b : one of two or more words thus corresponding in sound c : correspondence of other than terminal word sounds

And American Heritage had more or less the same thing.

I would stick with was Mr. Snake Hips Tucker cited from the OED. It is what I would think of - in terms of starting from the last accented syllable...

stuyguy
04-23-2003, 04:46 PM
Get yerself a copy of the Clement Wood's (ed.) "The Complete Rhyming Dictionary, The essential Handbook for Poets and Song Writers." Read the first few chapters and you'll learn WAY more than you ever thought there is to know about rhyming.

BTW, it is the rhyming dictionary that Stephen Sondheim swears by, and that's good enough for me.

And no, Report and Torque do not rhyme. Captain Amazing correctly called that "vowel rhyme" an assonance.