Can anyone here explain Australian Rules Football? [Archive]

Drum God

04-25-2003, 04:58 PM

Recently, our cable system started to present FoxSports International. I've come to enjoy watching Australian Football, but I can't figure out what they're trying to do. I went to the official Australian Football League website (http://afl.com.au) and found the rules (or "laws"), but they don't really explain the passion of the game. They give definitions and dimensions and such.

Last night, I watched Sydney vs. Hawthorn. It appeared by the score that Hawthorn really owned the game (or "match"), but I really wasn't sure which team was which. At one point, an official stopped the game and a Sydney player had what seemed to be an unchallenged kick to the goal (which he scored). The announcers seemed to think this was a significant turn of events, as it put Sydney back in the game. I never understood what entitled Sydney to this free kick. Upon scoring, sometimes the official would signal with one arm, the other arm, or both arms. And they look so serious! Whose idea is the hat?

The score was really baffling as well. It was a small number - a smaller number - a much larger number. Huh?

The game looks like a lot of fun and things move quickly. It makes rugby look like it's for sissies. These guys are running full bore at each other with no apparent safety equipment. The ball gets thrown, bounced, and kicked. I don't understand when or why you would throw, bounce, or kick. The kicks were really interesting. The camera would catch the guy kicking, then immediately swing over to where the ball would fall. In most American games, the camera follows the trajectory of the ball. The Australian camera work made me wonder what was going on that I couldn't see.

Is this game really popular in Australia? The stadiums seem large and the crowd sounds boisterous, but when the camera pans the stands, the stadium seems oddly empty.

I'm eager to learn so that I may better understand what these guys are trying so hard to do! In return, I'm willing to try to explain baseball's Infield Fly Rule.

HeyHomie

04-25-2003, 05:20 PM

A real Australian will be along in a moment to tell you more. I, however, can only relate my experiences in college.

We had a guy from Australia on our floor, Jason was his name, who introduced us to "Aussieball," as we called it. Jason modified the rules a bit for us, since we only had a soccer field (an Aussieball field is considerably bigger, and it's oval-shaped, IIRC), didn't know how to measure meters (we used yards (or "yahds," as Jason called them)), and weren't very good at bouncing the ball off the ground-something that apparently every Australian boy learns to do before kindergarden (Jason let us get away with holding it in our hands and touch in on the ground).

Imagine American football- the idea is to get the ball into your goal, which the opponent defends. In our modified game, we used the existing soccer goal as the "inner" goal, and we stuck posts in the ground about a yard out from the edges of the inner goal to form the "outer" goal.

Once any player got the ball, he could run with it for 15 yards. After 15 yards he had to do one of three things with it: 1) bounce it off the ground, 2) pass it to another player, or 3) attempt to score. When you have posession of the ball, the opposing team can try to tackle you, so frequent passing of the ball (or the ability to outrun a rabbit, as my roomate "Spanky" had) was definitely encouraged. If you had posession of the ball and you were a big meaty oaf (like me) it was harder for the opposing team to tackle you. If you were tackled, the opposing team got posession where you fell.

Passing worked like this: you had to hold the ball in one hand and sort-of punch it with the other hand. Throwing it was definitely illegal.

If you kicked the ball into the inner goal, you got six points. If you passed it into the inner goal, you got a smaller number of points. If you kicked it into the outer goal, you got a certain number of points (less than 6), and if you passed it into the outer goal you got only 1 point.

Apart from our modifications, we played pretty much according to the Australian professional rules.

My two shares of Enron stock.

HeyHomie

04-25-2003, 05:27 PM

Oh, by the way: here's a funny story regarding Australian rules football.

The first day I met Jason, he was watching an Aussieball game on the TV in our dorm's lobby area (his mum had taped it and mailed it to him). After exchanging greetings and pleasantries, I asked him which team he was rooting for. Well, his eyes got about this big [*holds thumb and index finger about 4 inches apart*] and asked: WHAT?????!!!!!!

Eventually I learned that "rooting" is an extremely vulger slang term for sexual intercourse in Australia.

Drum God

04-25-2003, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by HeyHomie
Oh, by the way: here's a funny story regarding Australian rules football.

The first day I met Jason, he was watching an Aussieball game on the TV in our dorm's lobby area (his mum had taped it and mailed it to him). After exchanging greetings and pleasantries, I asked him which team he was rooting for. Well, his eyes got about this big [*holds thumb and index finger about 4 inches apart*] and asked: WHAT?????!!!!!!

Eventually I learned that "rooting" is an extremely vulger slang term for sexual intercourse in Australia.

I'll be sure to remember that. Often, I end up watching these games while my wife is lying in bed next to me. Maybe I can root and "root" at the same time. :eek: ...Or maybe not.

TheLoadedDog

04-25-2003, 05:41 PM

Real Australian here, but don't look at me, mate. I won't be able to explain a thing about it. :D That's because I'm geographically challenged with regard to AFL (ain't so popular in my hometown).

There are several types of football played in Australia: Soccer, Rugby Union, Rugby League, and Australian Rules. They all have their followings, but the last two are the biggies. Traditionally, New South Wales (Sydney) and Queensland have been the big Rugby League states, and the others played AFL, with the state of Victoria being that game's epicentre. That has changed a little, as the popularity of each game has grown a little outside of its traditional state (eg. the game you watched had Sydney in it). This is good for both games of course, but historically it is something of a shame because it is killing of a very Australian model of having major league sport played by teams representing individual suburbs. The original League competition was an intra-city Sydney affair, and Melbourne had a similar set-up with the AFL. In the old days there was even a geographical requirement for players - you had to live in your team's suburb. Of course, these days there are million dollar contracts, massive advertising, players are bought and sold... The quaint intra-city model is being replaced by a more US-style inter-city one, in both games.

As I said, as a Sydneysider, I know next to nothing about Australian Rules, and you'll need a Victorian to come along and explain it properly. I'll give it a very basic shot: Imagine American football played by ballet dancers. No? Okay... Cross American football with basketball, and you'll have an idea. It's a fast, fluid, and athletic game, with less rough and tumble than Rugby League or US football. It even has elements of basketball in the rules (you can only run a certain number of strides before you must bounce the ball off the ground, IIRC. - aah cool. I see that's been mentioned on preview).

Folks from non-AFL states disparagingly call it "Aerial Ping Pong" and "Ballet Dancing", and the AFLers reply by labelling Rugby League "Running Wrestling" etc. I won't get into that though; AFL does look like a bloody good game. It's just that I don't really understand it.

Spoons

04-25-2003, 06:26 PM

I'm no Australian--but I've been in the stands at the Subiaco Oval cheering for the West Coast Eagles.

It looks like mayhem, but it's really quite simple: get the ball between the two centre posts and it's a goal--six points. Get the ball between the outer posts and the centre posts and it's a behind--one point. Scoreboards show goals and behinds and a total: thus 3-2-20 for the Eagles (for example) means three goals (18 points) and two behinds (2 points) for a total of 20 points.

Other than that, it's the marks to watch for. This occurs when a player catches the ball before it hits the ground. Then, the action stops and he gets the chance to kick or handball (that is, the punching referred to earlier) the ball to another player. Then, play continues.

I found it to be an exciting game where the action never stops, and in all my times in Australia, I followed the game--and specifically, the Eagles, since Perth was where I spent most of my time. Watch it enough, Drum God, and you'll get the hang of it.

Richard Pearse

04-25-2003, 06:40 PM

In addition to the above, I would say that the unopposed shot at goal that one player had was due to a mark as described above.

Agback

04-25-2003, 07:35 PM

G'day

I'll do what I can, but I'm from the Rugby and League-playing part of Australia, and I'm not thoroughly versed in the intricacies of Aussie Rules.

The aim at Aussie Rules is to kick the ball between the central pair of uprights at the other team's end of the ground. That is a goal, and it is worth six points. There are a few sorts of near-miss that are called 'behinds' and that are worth one point. One way to score a behind is to kick the ball between one of the centre uprights and the outer upright next to it. Another is to knock the ball through the goal with your fist. Another is if one of the defending team touches the ball and it goes through the goal. The goal umpire signals a goal with a peculiar gesture of both hands. He signals a behind with a gesture that explains how it was scored--a one-handed half of the 'goal' gesture signals a behind that has gone between a centre and an outer upright. A complete miss is signalled by fanning the hands over one another at waist-level, palms down. A team's score is listed as three figures: the number of goals, followed by the number of behinds, followed by the total points (=6 times the goals plus one times the behinds).

You are allowed to carry the ball a short distance, after which you must kick it, drop it, or hit it with your fist: it is permitted to drop it and then catch it again if it touches the ground. If you are tackled holding the ball you must drop it. You may not throw the ball, so it is passed from player to player by kicking or punching ("hand-balling") it.

You may grab another player and tackle him, but you must not strike or kick him. There are restrictions preventing you from running into him in certain ways that are particularly dangerous.

If the ball is kicked and a player catches it 'on the full' (ie. before it hits the ground) the play is awarded a 'mark'. He is allowed to back up a little way and run in to the spot where he caught the ball, and I think there is a time limit, but basically he is permitted to kick the ball from the spot where he caught it without interference.

A large part of the tactics of Aussie Rules Football is to break free from the opposing player who is marking you, and then, if you have the ball, to kick it to a team-mate who is also 'in the clear', so that he can take a mark and then make a kick (for goal or for another team-mate closer to the goals) without interference. A mark is a big advantage. So, at any time, everything that is going on within kicking distance of the ball is important. And so, although the game televises reasonably well, you get a much better idea of what is going on if you are actually at the game.

When the ball is sent on a long floating kick there is often a struggle at the place where it is set to land, in which members of both teams trying to get into position to take (or spoil) a mark. That's why the camera operators are trained to televise the play in the landing zone rather than the ballistics of the ball.

I'm not sure about substitution rules, but basically every player is expected to play out the whole game (which is played in four quarters). Defensive specialists are stationed in the 'back' half of the field, and offensive specialists are stationed in the 'forward' half of the field, but the play is likely to switch from offensive to defense with startling rapidity, far too quickly for an offensive team to be replaced with a defensive team, even if the rules allowed.

There are six officials: one on each goal, one on each sideline, the umpire out on the field, and the scorekeeper (off).

Aussie Rules is fast-moving and fluid. It is played over the whole field, with the play affected by everything that is going on within 50 metres of the ball.

Thirty years ago Aussie Rules was played in Victoria, South Australia, Western Australia, and Tasmania, while in New South Wales and Queensland Rugby was played by amateurs and Rugby League by professional and semi-pros. But since then the Victorian Football League has changed its name to "the Australian Football League", expelling Melbourne clubs, admitting South Australian and Western Australian clubs, and establishing franchises in 'enemy' territory such as Sydney. Similarly, the NSW Rugby League has changed its name to "the Australian Rugby League", expelling Sydney clubs, admitting Queensland and New Zealand clubs, and establishing franchises in 'enemy' territory (eg, Melbourne). Despite all this frantic effort, Rugby League remains more popular than Aussie Rules in the North-East, and Aussie Rules remains more popular than Rugby League in the West and South. So a game between two popular teams that are high in the results table and well matched, played in Melbourne on ANZAC Day will fill a 110,000-seat stadium to overflowing and draw a million TV viewers. But a game played under lights, between two unpopular teams, in Sydney on a weeknight will only attract a few thousand spectators.

The players do not wear much protective gear aside from mouthguards, boots, and perhaps jockstraps. The uniforms are skimpy and tight (to avoid giving opposing players an easy hand-hold in tackles). This, combined with the fact that Aussie Rules players are taller and less squat than Rugby or League players and show the effects of fewer facial injuries, makes Aussie Rules good ogling for those who are inclined to large athletic men.

That's about all I know.

Regards,

Agback

Lampokey

04-25-2003, 08:01 PM

Well the best way to understand the game is to keep watching.
I did not understand it when I first began following it in 1996.
At first it looks messy but eventually you come to appreciate what's going on.
It's traditional to slate the umpires buy , by and large , they do a good job.

Now can anyone please explain the rules of cricket to this Englishman?
Second thoughts, dont't bother - Robin Williams was bang on the mark when he said "Cricket is Baseball on Valium!"

If he sees any Australian Rules , he will surely declare ""It's Gaelic Football on speed"!

Swagman

04-25-2003, 10:47 PM

Originally posted by Lampokey
At first it looks messy but eventually you come to appreciate what's going on.

I've been watching it on and off for near on 10 years and I still can't work it out, I really can't understand the appeal, apart from taking a high mark there seems little by way of skill but each to there own and the whole of Melbourne seems to think it's the only game on earth so I won't argue with them.

Duckster

04-25-2003, 11:12 PM

I only began to understand the game after attending a few games and having the rules explained to me during the game. In essence, the ball is constantly in motion and may only be "passed" to another play by kicking -- hence, it really is football -- or a hand pass by holding the ball and hitting it with a fist, and only then as a lateral pass.

A kick through the taller inner posts is six points; through the smaller out side posts is one point (called a behind).

There really are no timeouts in the game. For the time a ball is "dead" during a game, that time is tacked on to the end of the period. It makes for interesting moments when the clock winds down to zero and the game goes on; only the refs know how much time remains at that point.

What truly amazes me is the ability of the players to kick, whether distance or at an angle. I've witnessed 60-meter kicks through the posts as well as players facing in the wrong direction kicking back and through the posts. Why Aussie Rules players are not drafted by the American NFL is beyond me. An Aussie Rules player on a USA NFL team could return the art of the drop kick and change the NFL forever. I could see 70-yard drop kicks through the goalposts no sweat.

Aussie Rules players are probably the fittest athletes in the world. A few years back some university attached a GPS to the players of one team to measure just how fit. When plotted on a computer and played back, on screen, it reminded me of those old Family Circus cartoons where the kids goes everywhere but directly from A to B. The startling stats that came out of the research was an average Aussie Rules players run a distance equivalent to half a marathon for every game! When you consider a season is 22 games, that means a top player is running 11 marathons in 22 weeks!

That said, go Port!!

BTW, is Sam Newman still being an ass on The Footy Show?

Monty

04-26-2003, 01:26 AM

BTW, the officials will use one hand to signal a behind, two for a goal. Unlike the action on the field, the officials are quite sedate when they do this.

phraser

04-26-2003, 01:56 AM

Despite all this frantic effort, Rugby League remains more popular than Aussie Rules in the North-East, and Aussie Rules remains more popular than Rugby League in the West and South.

That said, the Brisbane Lions (from the mainly rugby following state of Queensland) have been premiers two years in a row and are looking to make it a third!

Go Lions!

Princhester

04-26-2003, 04:46 AM

Originally posted by Duckster
In essence, the ball is constantly in motion and may only be "passed" to another play by kicking -- hence, it really is football -- or a hand pass by holding the ball and hitting it with a fist, and only then as a lateral pass.

Almost. Actually, a handball can go in any direction.

Princhester

04-26-2003, 04:54 AM

Originally posted by Drum God
Upon scoring, sometimes the official would signal with one arm, the other arm, or both arms. And they look so serious! Whose idea is the hat?

The goal umpires are kind of a running joke, or maybe that should read, they should be seen as a running joke, but in Aussie Rules mad Victoria, they are seen as normal. It's just one of those odd traditions of the game that they act like robots.

Don't ask me why.

Originally posted by Swagman
I've been watching it on and off for near on 10 years and I still can't work it out, I really can't understand the appeal, apart from taking a high mark there seems little by way of skill but each to there own and the whole of Melbourne seems to think it's the only game on earth so I won't argue with them.

I've only been following for about the last 4 years, when I became friends with a footie mad Victorian who had moved up here. I'm only now beginning to see where the strategy and skill are.

It helps if you view the game as very very heavy handed basketball. A very large part of the skill is in getting clear of your marker, dodging and jinking and figuring out where the play is likely to go, so that you can be there when the ball comes etc.

stringy

04-26-2003, 05:16 AM

Sam Newman is still being an ass (or, as I prefer "arse") on The Footy Show. I wonder if he has anything else to live for?

Jimoen was on The Fat a week or two ago (general sport show on the ABC), and he was saying that Aussie Rules is great because most games only give you points for getting the ball in the goal, but Aussie Rules will give you a sympathy point for nearly getting it right.

I'm still new to the Aussie Rules love. It's taken me quite a while to get the hang of it, but it's well worth the effort.

Go Eagles! Go Dockers! And failing that, Go Lions!

And Collingwood can shove the goals posts where the sun don't shine.

blackhobyah

04-26-2003, 07:09 AM

Quote from Agback:

" The players do not wear much protective gear aside from mouthguards, boots, and perhaps jockstraps. The uniforms are skimpy and tight (to avoid giving opposing players an easy hand-hold in tackles)."

Hmmm. So that's what they've been telling you? Back in the fifties my uncle captained a notorious Australian Rules team, and according to photos did it in knee length baggy shorts and a loose pullover thing.

Therefore I'm not completely convinced that the very tight shorts of the modern game are not related to the financial woes of football in the eighties and nineties, and the belated recognition, by players and management alike, that a not insignificant number of their fan base are women (and gay men for that matter).;)

Now all the women I know with a passion for football care deeply about the finer points of play, but none of them are blind to the aesthetic possibilites of extremely athletic young men tackling each other whilst wearing very tight gear and a layer of slippery mud. :D

Perving on the footy is one way of passing a winter Saturday afternoon in Melbourne.

woolly

04-26-2003, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by Duckster
Why Aussie Rules players are not drafted by the American NFL is beyond me [/B]

Darren Bennett (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/3099/bios).

... and Bennett, while a fair lump of a lad, and a handy player with Melbourne, wouldn't have been categoried as anything exceptional. If you are looking for somebody who really can kick a ball, then Geelong's Ben Graham would be a fair example.

Ell

04-26-2003, 09:56 AM

Long suffering Sydney Swans fan here. Looks like everything has been said though.

buckgully

04-26-2003, 12:25 PM

Fox Sports World periodically plays a show called "Australian Rules Football Explained" or something like that. It's written for American sports fans just getting into Aussie rules, and I found it to be very useful explaining just what is going on.

I'm not sure when it's on, though, since I have Tivo and it just recorded it one day.

One thing I hate is the way FSW edits the broadcasts to fit into the timeslot. A lot of times you'll see almost all of the game in realtime, and then with five minutes left in the slot they'll just compress the last 20 minutes of the game -usually the most interesting part- into highlight clips.

Princhester

04-26-2003, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by stringy
Jimoen was on The Fat a week or two ago (general sport show on the ABC), and he was saying that Aussie Rules is great because most games only give you points for getting the ball in the goal, but Aussie Rules will give you a sympathy point for nearly getting it right.

Which is probably the oldest Aussie Rules joke in existence.

Duke

04-26-2003, 07:36 PM

Heh, no one's explained this part yet, so I'll do so. That strange oval-shaped field? Those coats the umpires wear that look like lab coats? Holdovers from cricket. Aussie Rules was originally designed as a way of keeping cricketers fit during the close season.

Drum God

04-27-2003, 12:49 PM

Thanks to everyone for the helpful responses. I had no idea that Australian sports were so regional. Do school kids play Aussie Rules? Here in USA, nearly every teenaged boy has the opportunity to play football, baseball, soccer, and other sports. Most try these things at least once and most schools (even financially-strapped ones) spend a huge amount of money and effort fielding a football team.

AFL seems so much rougher than rugby. Guys just running full-bore into each other. I'll have to watch for the finer points of the game.

stringy

04-28-2003, 02:07 AM

Originally posted by Princhester
...probably the oldest Aussie Rules joke in existence.

Damn. I probably haven't heard it before 'cos until last year I'd never really paid attention to the game. As soon as I heard the word 'footy' I just tuned out. Ah, well...

Princhester

04-28-2003, 02:22 AM

I was actually quite disappointed with Jimeon for making this joke because I usually find him to be quite original.

The usual formulation is that Aussie Rules is a softies' game because you get a point for missing.

Drum God, school sport opportunities vary. At least when I was at school, there was the opportunity to play soccer, aussie rules, rugby league, cricket, tennis, baseball, hockey, tennis and probably others that I've forgotten. But (strangely for such a sport mad nation) it was not taken as seriously as it seems to be taken in the US, at least in the sense of the school's reputation riding on the prowess of its sports teams. However the principal at my school was notably anti sport.

Private schools would offer rugby union instead of league. And they do consider their reputation to ride on their sporting prowess, to at least some extent.

As to the heaviness of the game, opinions vary. I've played a bit of both AR and RL. The former can be heavier, in that as you say someone can run a long way before crashing into you at full tilt. But that happens less frequently, and the object is often to wrap you and the ball up, not to drop you to the ground, hard.

In Rugby, the tackling is much, much more constant, and the object is to drop you to the ground hard, but it tends to occur off less of a runup, I wouldn't underestimate it. I would call rugby heavier overall, though I know Victorians would say otherwise.

leechbabe

04-28-2003, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by TheLoadedDog

In the old days there was even a geographical requirement for players - you had to live in your team's suburb. Of course, these days there are million dollar contracts, massive advertising, players are bought and sold... The quaint intra-city model is being replaced by a more US-style inter-city one, in both games.

I've been wondering about this - do players now have to live in the same state as their team or for example could a Brisbane Lions player live in Melbourne but play for Brisbane?

woolly

04-29-2003, 09:42 AM

There would be no rule, but it would be unusual circumstances. Coaches and clubs tend to prefer the team trains together. One of those male bonding things. An exception was Simon Minton-Connell who played with Sydney while domiciled in Melbourne for at least one season. Chris Langford of Hawthorn was based in Sydney in 1996.

Drum God

05-01-2003, 01:44 PM

So where you live is really important? In US professional sports, it doesn't matter where you live or even if you live in the USA. Many prominent players in American sports are from all over the world. The hottest basketball sensation right now is Houston's Yao Ming, all the way from China.

I'm a bit confused about the difference between Rugby Union and Rugby League. Are the rules markedly different?

Is safety ever an issue or controversy in Australian sports? Right now, there is discussion that American football may be too dangerous. Here in Central Texas, a young man suffered a paralyzing injury while playing in the state championship game. Both he and the boy who hit him (in a legal block) are devastated. There is a strong push to make equipment such as helmets even safer. Is there much of a push to make Australian sports equipment safer? Both rugby and Aussie Rules seem to have minimal protective gear.

The word "premier" has been mentioned a few times. Is this the league "champion" -- the overall winner?

Australia strikes me as a fascinating place. It seems that the culture is so different than America and Europe. I hope one day that I can visit.

Princhester

05-01-2003, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by Drum God
So where you live is really important? In US professional sports, it doesn't matter where you live or even if you live in the USA. Many prominent players in American sports are from all over the world. The hottest basketball sensation right now is Houston's Yao Ming, all the way from China.

Not really. It used to be, as TLD said. Now it's all very professional and there is a draft etc

I'm a bit confused about the difference between Rugby Union and Rugby League. Are the rules markedly different?

The differences are subtle but significant. You can certainly see that the games have the same origins. I suppose the most significant difference is that in Union, when you are tackled you must let go of the ball, although of course you try to let it go back to your teammates behind you, not to the opposition. Almightly pushing and shoving then occurs around the tackled player as each team tries to get the ball. In League, when you are tackled you get to keep the ball, play stops (very, very briefly by American standards: for perhaps 5 seconds) the teams reform, the opposition backs off 5 yards, and you start again.

Is safety ever an issue or controversy in Australian sports? Right now, there is discussion that American football may be too dangerous. Here in Central Texas, a young man suffered a paralyzing injury while playing in the state championship game. Both he and the boy who hit him (in a legal block) are devastated. There is a strong push to make equipment such as helmets even safer. Is there much of a push to make Australian sports equipment safer? Both rugby and Aussie Rules seem to have minimal protective gear.

No. In general, there is a view here that protective gear is for pussies. I am not espousing that view, you understand. But there you go.

However, what has been happening is a crackdown on certain types of dangerous tackles (spear tackles, head high tackles), which very severe penalties (suspension for significant portions of a whole season, for example) for such conduct.

The word "premier" has been mentioned a few times. Is this the league "champion" -- the overall winner?

Yes.

Tony Barber's Underwear

05-01-2003, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by Drum God

I'm a bit confused about the difference between Rugby Union and Rugby League. Are the rules markedly different?

It may be a hijack, but I can answer this one.

As legend has it, Rugby began at the Rugby School in England, when William Webb Ellis "picked up the ball and ran with it". Until 1995, rugby union was a striclty amateur game (although there were some players who allegedly received payments).

In the early 20th century, miners in the north of England requested compensation from their clubs in the event that they were injured playing rugby. The RFU refused, and the professional rugby league was born.

League is only really played at a high level in Australia (by far the strongest League nation) and the north of England, and parts of NZ.

The main differences in the modern games include :
Points - Rugby gives 5 points for a try, 2 points for a conversion, 3 points for field goals and penalties. League awards 4 points for a try, 2 points for conversions and penalties, and 1 point for a field goal.
Number of players : League has 13 players per side. Rugby has 15 men per side - 2 extra forwards called "flankers" or "breakaways".
Lineouts - Rugby has a player (usually the hooker) throw the ball into 2 lines of opposing forwads when the ball reaches touch (goes out). League has a scrum.
Scrums : League scrums are, for all intents and purposes unopposed, while rugby scrums are an artform (bet you can guess what position I play)
The breakdown : The biggest difference between the sports is at the breakdown (when a player is tackled). In league, once a player is deemed to be tackled, he 'plays' the ball between his legs unopposed to another player. Each team has a 'set' of six tackles in a row before the ball must be kicked or turned over to the opposition. Rugby breakdowns are more technical - each side's players contest either a ruck (if the ball is on the groun) or a maul (if the player with the ball is on his feet), where they try an push each other off the ball.

That is a fairly simple breakdown of the differences. Rugby is perceived as more technical and pedantic than league, but I prefer it as a sport to play and watch.

BTW, last weekend, the USA qualified over Spain as the final entrant in the Rugby World Cup in Australia later this year. If you get a chance, watch a few games. It is the biggest sporting event in the world this year, and only stands behind the FIFA World Cup and the Olympics in terms of international interest.

- Bubba.

everton

05-02-2003, 05:55 AM

This is a matter of speculation, but arguably the use of protective equipment encourages more dangerous play? There are occasional complaints about the dangers of rugby up here, though, usually arising when there is a serious injury in an amateur or schools game (I've heard a couple of cases of serious head or spinal injury for instance).

When the League version was created, there was a lot of bad feeling between the two sports. Until the '90s you were banned for life from playing the Union version if you had ever played League, or even trained with League players.

Recently, those strict rules were abolished and there has been a lot of bridge building between the two sports. Many players have switched back and forth between the two and the skills involved are broadly similar enough to allow that to happen pretty seamlessly.

Tony Barber's Underwear: it's debatable whether the Rugby Union World Cup is really No.3 in interest (I'm sure a couple of other competitons would make that claim), but I agree it's worth recommending to an American audience, especially if they're already gridirion fans.

woolly

05-02-2003, 08:10 AM

Rugby Union ... a thugs game played by gentlemen.
Rugby League ... a gentlemans game played by thugs. :D

Cliffy

05-02-2003, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by Lampokey
Now can anyone please explain the rules of cricket to this Englishman?

What the hell!

The fielding team has several players on the pitch at one time. (11?) One of them, the bowler (the man with the ball, analagous to baseball's pitcher) tries to knock down the wicket (a precariously balanced contraption made of three sticks stuck in the ground and two bails set on top of them) by throwing or "bowling" the ball towards it. If the ball hits the wicket and knocks down the bails, it's an out (aka a wicket, but I'll continue to use the baseball terminology to avoid confusion).

The batsman (from the other team) stands in front of the wicket and protects it by swatting away a bowled ball with his bat. When he does so he and his partner (the only other dude from his team who is on the field) run back and forth along a straight strip of ground in front of the wicket, scoring a run each time they make it from the starting point to the safe spot at the other end of this strip. However, while they're running, they're vulnerable. If someone on the fielding team gets his hands on the ball and then knocks down the wicket by throwing the ball at it -- or by just hitting it while he's holding the ball -- then that's an out, too. (Unless the batsman and his partner can get back to base before the bails are disloged.)

The batting team scores four runs if the batted ball rolls off the pitch before it's fielded and six runs if it is hit hard enough that it clears the pitch before it lands. A ball caught in the air is an out. Also, if the batsman doesn't bat the ball but blocks it with his body, that's an out -- as long as the ball would have hit the wicket if unobstructed. Conversely, if a ball is thrown wide so that there's no chance it could hit the wicket and the batsman has no opportunity to put it in play, that's worth a run, IIRC.

Six bowled balls is an over, and after some number of overs a new bowler must step up from amongst the men on the field. The outgoing bowler becomes a fielder until it's his turn to bowl again. Another important person on the fielding team is the wicket keeper, who catches the bowled balls. If he misses it and the ball gets away from him, IIRC the batsman and his partner can score runs just like it was a batted ball. (Similar to the dropped third strike in baseball.)

When a batsman gets out, he's retired, but his replacement and his partner continue; the teams don't switch sides back and forth as in baseball. Once the batting team gets ten outs against it, its innings are over, and then the switch is made. The former fielding team now has its own ten outs to beat the number of runs established by the team now in the field. Scores for an innings are typically well over 100, and it is uncommon but not incredibly rare for a single batsman to get 100 runs.

Since the first side's innings don't end until the tenth out, the game could go on for an undefined number of overs, and games do last more than a day. However, teams also play matches with a defined number of overs (I think I've seen 40, which seems to me pretty short were the teams playing a full match). In this case the innings only last that number of overs -- or ten outs, whichever comes first. That's why you'll sometimes see scores reported as 116-6 to 110-3; that means one team got 116 runs in its innings and only 6 outs. My understanding is that in these matches, as long as your team doesn't drop out due to being gotten out ten times, the number of outs doesn't matter, so in that example the team with 116-6 would be the winner despite the fact that it got out twice as often as the other team. (But I may be wrong about that -- hey, I'm a yank and I think I've done well enough so far.)

--Cliffy

Tony Barber's Underwear

05-03-2003, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by woolly
Rugby Union ... a thugs game played by gentlemen.
Rugby League ... a gentlemans game played by thugs. :D

I always thought that it was soccer that was classed as the thug's game played by gentlemen.

Originally posted by evertonTony Barber's Underwear: it's debatable whether the Rugby Union World Cup is really No.3 in interest (I'm sure a couple of other competitons would make that claim), but I agree it's worth recommending to an American audience, especially if they're already gridirion fans.

It may be debateable, but the television viewing audiences were estimated between 3-4 billion people for the 1999 world cup, which makes it a pretty big event.

Cite 1 (http://www.business.nsw.gov.au/business.asp?cid=327 )
Cite 2 (http://www.wru.co.uk/vsite/vcontent/page/custom/0,8510,4781-125577-126884-17196-57562-custom-item,00.html)
Cite 3 (http://www.worldcupweb.com/WCrugby/history.asp)

- Bubba.

Rodney

04-25-2012, 10:58 AM

http://leeannkhoh.suite101.com/australian-rules-football-a95753

Read this

Rodney

04-25-2012, 11:00 AM

http://leeannkhoh.suite101.com/australian-rules-football-a95753

Malacandra

04-25-2012, 11:16 AM

So it's played by zombies then?

bordelond

04-25-2012, 11:22 AM

Went and looked at the AFL article on Wiipedia to see what teams are currently in the league.

Wow, St. Kilda must be the Chicago Cubs of Australian Rules Football -- 115 seasons, one championship (1966). Wonder how many times they finished second or lost title games?

Drum God

04-25-2012, 02:06 PM

http://leeannkhoh.suite101.com/australian-rules-football-a95753

Read this

That helped a lot.

So, if I'm tackled, I jump up and immediately dispose of the ball (handball or kick)? The other guy doesn't simply take it away from me? What if he wrestles it from me and successfully gets it out of my hands?

What if my kick doesn't go fifteen meters? Is the field marked somehow so that we can all agree on how far fifteen meters is?

I don't get this "mark" thing. So, my guy has been tackled and he kicks the ball more than fifteen meters. I catch it cleanly. I get a free kick, but I don't want to kick it. I want to run with it (bouncing it every fifteen meters). Can I? What if my guy kicks the ball and the someone on the other team catches it cleanly? He gets a free kick, but I don't understand why he wants to kick it instead of running like a madman.

To score, can I kick the ball anytime I think I'm close enough to make a goal? Can I get right up to the goal line? Am I likely to get clobbered there? In American football, strict rules protect the kicker because he is very vulnerable with one foot down, one leg extended in the air, and his junk hanging out. In Aussie Rules, if I am in the act of kicking, can I be knocked to the ground? Do other players get kicked in the face as someone tries to get a kick off before getting tackled?

mnemosyne

04-25-2012, 02:57 PM

I have now watched two games - including one last night (well, morning; it went until 3:30am!). It's insane, but so much fun! The fluidity is a little bit like hockey, where you can pass and check with abandon and the game doesn't really stop. The similarities to soccer and football are enough to begin to piece the game together while watching. I've seen a bit of rugby (I'm pretty sure always union) and have a vague understanding of those rules, so add it all up and I can begin to sort things out. I don't know that I'll seek it out, but I will definitely watch it when I stumble upon it!

Both games I've seen have involved Collingwood, so I found myself cheering for them last night simply because I vaguely recognized a few of the players. Also, Steele Sidebottom. You gotta love that name!

I think last night's game was the ANZAC day one; there was some sort of trophy and medal ceremony afterways. The crowd was nuts - so emotional over mistakes and the opposition scoring - great atmosphere. Is the stadium always split in two with fans from each team filling half? Do teams share stadiums?

Is there any part of the game that has a "home field" advantage (other than possible crowd support?). In hockey you get your bench closer to your defensive zone for 2/3 periods, and you get last change for substitutions before every puck drop so you have the advantage in matching players against each other. I can't see anything in the Aussie Rules that seem to give an advantage one way or the other, but I'm not sure.

OldGuy

04-25-2012, 03:42 PM

In hockey you get your bench closer to your defensive zone for 2/3 periods, and you get last change for substitutions before every puck drop so you have the advantage in matching players against each other.

Note that the former is not really a home field advantage as the visiting team also has its bench closer to its defensive zone in periods 1 and 3.

Gary "Wombat" Robson

04-25-2012, 03:43 PM

Thread moved to the Game Room from GQ.

mnemosyne

04-25-2012, 03:55 PM

Note that the former is not really a home field advantage as the visiting team also has its bench closer to its defensive zone in periods 1 and 3.

Heh you're right. Weird that I thought of it that way - I knew this! Thanks for pointing it out...silly me!

Princhester

04-25-2012, 05:42 PM

So, if I'm tackled, I jump up and immediately dispose of the ball (handball or kick)? The other guy doesn't simply take it away from me? What if he wrestles it from me and successfully gets it out of my hands?

Respectively: no, maybe, and he would get the ball (although this seldom happens).

If you are tackled you must release the ball. If you don't release the ball the opposition is awarded a penalty: a free kick. However, what makes it hard for the tackled player is that there are only two acceptable means of releasing the ball: kicking it or handballing it. You know what kicking is, but handballing it is punching it away with your hand or fist. So throwing the ball away or even just dropping it when tackled will result in a penalty against you.

Generally, on tackling the tactics are that the tackled player tries to get the ball away by kicking it or punching it, so that they aren't caught with the ball. They can try to break free of the tackle but this tends to be low percentage. It's better, if you are going to be or are in the process of being tackled to get the ball away to a teammate if at all possible. Meanwhile, the tackling player's tactic is to try to wrap the tackled player up with their arms precisely to prevent them getting the ball away so they get a penalty in their favour because the tackled player didn't release the ball, or a penalty in their favour because the tackled player drops the ball without kicking or handballing it.

What if my kick doesn't go fifteen meters? Is the field marked somehow so that we can all agree on how far fifteen meters is?

If it doesn't go fifteen metres then catching it won't win a free kick and play simply continues. The referee will yell "NOT FIFTEEN" or similar so that players know it wasn't a mark. There are no markings. The referee just uses his judgment.

I don't get this "mark" thing. So, my guy has been tackled and he kicks the ball more than fifteen meters. I catch it cleanly. I get a free kick, but I don't want to kick it. I want to run with it (bouncing it every fifteen meters). Can I? What if my guy kicks the ball and the someone on the other team catches it cleanly? He gets a free kick, but I don't understand why he wants to kick it instead of running like a madman.

Yes, a mark is awarded for catching on the full any kicked ball that travelled more than fifteen metres no matter who kicked it.

Yes you can just keep running rather than take your free kick if you mark it. This is called "playing on". Players will play on if the situation suits. However, bear in mind that once someone kicks, both the player who is the intended recipient of the kick, and the opposition will sprint to the place where the ball is coming down. So almost always if you take a mark there is an opposition player only a few steps away (if that) and if you play on you will probably just be tackled.

The reason why players take kicks from marks is the same reason why in WWII the Allies flew bombs to Berlin rather than driving them there in trucks. AFL players can kick 60-70 metres with pinpoint accuracy. When you are awarded a mark you are given a free opportunity to gain substantial tactical advantage and/or gain 60-70 metres by kicking to a teammate (resulting in another mark and another opportunity). It's usually a no brainer.

To score, can I kick the ball anytime I think I'm close enough to make a goal? Can I get right up to the goal line? Am I likely to get clobbered there?

Yes, yes and yes. As you approach the goal the defenders become more concentrated and your chances of not being clobbered and/or totally surrounded and hassled decrease as you approach the goal. So the usual tactic is to kick for goal any time you can get the space to do so when in range.

In American football, strict rules protect the kicker because he is very vulnerable with one foot down, one leg extended in the air, and his junk hanging out. In Aussie Rules, if I am in the act of kicking, can I be knocked to the ground? Do other players get kicked in the face as someone tries to get a kick off before getting tackled?

Hell yes. The opposition will place their bodies on the line to smother any attempt to get a kick away cleanly. Actually, kicking people in the face doesn't happen much. The tacklor will be aiming to wrap up the kicker's upper body (tacking the legs is forbidden).

Princhester

04-25-2012, 06:49 PM

I've just realised that what I've written is at best incomplete and at worst positively misleading in that I don't mention the "prior opportunity" rule. Rather than attempt to explain that, there is a wikipedia article on the subject (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holding_the_ball).

Drum God

04-25-2012, 09:06 PM

Askance

04-25-2012, 11:19 PM

Yes. If you wrap him up so tightly he is deemed to not have had a realistic chance to dispose of the ball in a legal way, it's a wash and the referee does a ball-up (yes, that's what it's really called). If he had such a chance and did not, you had a fair tackle and it's a turn-over - you get a free kick.

The core of many, of not most, of the rules is that the game should be allowed to flow freely and not have stoppages if at all possible. AFL is I believe the only comparable sport where the officials cannot send a player off for any reason whatsoever - any penalty stronger than a 50 metre free kick is left to the judiciary next week.

rhysf

04-25-2012, 11:50 PM

Both games I've seen have involved Collingwood, so I found myself cheering for them last night simply because I vaguely recognized a few of the players. Also, Steele Sidebottom. You gotta love that name!

Also playing for Collingwood in that game was Tyson Goldsack.

Is the stadium always split in two with fans from each team filling half? Do teams share stadiums?

The cheer squads for each team will usually fill the space behind the goals, but other than that, supporters are generally intermingled. The nine teams based in Melbourne share two stadiums. They used to have a ground each but I guess it became financially unsustainable.

The only real home-ground advantage is when a team has to fly interstate to play their opponents.

Princhester

04-26-2012, 12:16 AM

So, if I'm tackling someone, I want to also prevent him from legally disposing of the ball. I should try to grasp him in such a way that he is stuck with the ball whether he wants it or not. However, he must have a reasonable chance to properly dispose of the ball.

Is that about right?

Actually it's a bit more complicated than that. OK, it's a lot more complicated than that. There is quite a complicated decision tree involved.

Even before a tackle happens, any player with control of the ball is in one of two states: (a) has had "prior opportunity" to dispose of (ie pass or kick away) the ball, or (b) has not had "prior opportunity" to dispose of (ie pass or kick away) the ball.

So someone who has received the ball, run a bit, bounced it and is in the clear obviously has had "prior opportunity". Someone who received the ball 2 seconds ago while surrounded by opposition and while physically off balance has not. And of course in between is a certain amount of gray.

OK. Now this person is tackled.

If the tacklee is in a state of having had prior opportunity, they must make a legal disposal (ie effective kick or handball) immediately. If they don't do so they will be penalised for holding the ball even though once the tackle commenced they were physically prevented from legally disposing of the ball. And if they drop the ball ie dispose of it but not legally, they again will be penalised. In other words, tough shit, you should have disposed of it before you were tackled, because you had prior opportunity.

Contrastingly if the tacklee has not had prior opportunity, then when tackled they are required only to make a genuine attempt to dispose of the ball legally. As long as they are attempting to get the ball away legally, they won't be penalised for not doing so. This doesn't mean the tacklee gets to keep the ball even though they held the ball when tackled. It just means that if they drop the ball (ie dispose of it in a way that is not usually legal) or physically can't release the ball, they won't suffer any penalty. In the former case, another player will grab the ball and play will continue. In the latter case, there will be a ball up to restart play.

Basically, what it comes down to is that if you could dispose of the ball but choose to keep playing and get tackled you are in the shit. If you get tackled when you couldn't have disposed of the ball beforehand then you won't be able to continue to hold the ball, but you won't be positively penalised.

mnemosyne

04-26-2012, 12:51 AM

Also playing for Collingwood in that game was Tyson Goldsack.

Really? My inner-child is giggling like an idiot at that. I noticed another guy named Ugle too... I'm imagining something like a hockey line of Ugle-Sidebottom-Goldsack and laughing like a loon.

I think I need to get some sleep... this probably isn't really as funny as I apparently think it is, is it? :p

Hari Seldon

04-26-2012, 08:32 AM

Incidentally, Canadian football, while similar to American, does award a single point for a missed field goal--provided it is not run out of the end zone. Essentially, what is a touchback in the US, is a single point (called for some reason a rouge) in the CFL. Another difference (although I have seen it happen only once) is that it is legal to kick a ball from the open field. But it might be useful to import an Aussie rules player for that.

The one time I saw it happen was at the end of one year's Grey Cup game (national championship). The game was tied and with time running out, one team tried a field goal from about the 30. The goal was missed but the defensive player who fielded it was going to be tackled inside his end zone (the end zones were 25 yards deep--I think they are now 20) and punted. The player who fielded that punt punted back to try for a rouge. It didn't go out the end zone and a defensive player punted it out again. This time the punting team didn't give the team receiving the punt (that is, the original team that attempted the field goal) a 5 yard zone to field the punt (required under Canadian rules) and a penalty was called. The original team got the ball after a five yard penalty and this time successfully kicked a field goal to win.