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View Full Version : Guys--Would you waste your time being friends?


Heart On My Sleeve
05-04-2003, 03:56 PM
If there was a woman you were attracted to who was unavailable, but she wanted to be friends, close friends, would you do it? And why?

msmith537
05-04-2003, 04:16 PM
Does she have hot, permiscuous friends?

flybynight
05-04-2003, 04:17 PM
Why not? Friendship is friendship - I've never bought into the "guys can only really be friends with other guys" thing. So long as the girl isn't your only love interest, of course. You wouldn't want to stay friends with someone for the sole purpose of hoping that, should their current relationship fail, you're going to be the one they turn to and finally all your "dreams" will come true. That just can't be healthy, and I've seen it happen all too often among young guys. If this is the case, I'd say no to friendship until you've moved on and aren't just "waiting" around till Mr. X is out of the picture.

Additionally, if you are implying that, as a guy, the only purpose of being friends with girls is hoping you will get a chance to sleep with them, then I have to disagree. Though this is often the case, it doesn't have to be. Girls can sometimes make great friends. So, I guess my point is, if I wasn't hopelessly in love with her and just waiting around until she realized how great I was, sure, I'd be friends with her.

Shakes
05-05-2003, 01:39 AM
Hmm, I have some female friends that are pretty hot and all we are is just "friends". But the deal there is I never tried to get with these girls becuase when I met them I had other shit going on.

Now if it was some chick I wanted to get with and she said she just wanted to be friends or close friends as the op states; then that would be an absolute NO. Why? Becuase some women (alot of women) wheather it be intensionaly or unintensionaly have a tendacy to munipulate guys in this type of situation. Besides I already have plenty of friends.

Having a female friend is just like having a girlfriend only except after listening to her bitch and whine about all her problems or boyfriend ills; shes still not gonna give you any puss for doing so. Jeez! Who the hell needs that? I can hang out with my guy friends all day and all night and not once will they ever say to me " You know shakes, I really need to talk about my feelings right now." :rolleyes:

Marley23
05-05-2003, 02:23 AM
If there was a woman you were attracted to who was unavailable, but she wanted to be friends, close friends, would you do it? And why?
Yes, it's absolutely worth it. I just like being around women more than guys, I tend to connect with them on a level that feels more substantial. I can hang out with guys and have fun, but that's how it is generally. My longest-lasting friendships have been with women as well.
That said, I don't hang out with the kind of gals SHAKES seems so annoyed with. ;) Okay, on occasion I have, but those aren't the ones I mean.
My best friend is a woman to whom I was attracted when we met. She was available (though interested in someone else), but she said she'd rather be friends. That was almost seven years ago, and until I met my present girlfriend, I'd have gone out with her if she'd wanted. Not that I expected it to happen. So obviously I think it's worth it.
Flybynight makes a lot of good points. I've hurt myself waiting for a girl to come around, and it's bad. But there's no need to close off 50% of the population as potential friends. :p

Phnord Prephect
05-05-2003, 03:40 AM
Have, Am, and Will. q;}

Badtz Maru
05-05-2003, 03:43 AM
Yeah, it's worth it to remain friends. You never know when there might be an opportunity to upgrade the relationship. She might pass out drunk, for instance...

Silentgoldfish
05-05-2003, 04:24 AM
Why not? I've got no real wish to fuck any of my male friends yet I don't blow them off...

calm kiwi
05-05-2003, 05:56 AM
There is the other side though. I have a male friend who has tried "passes" in the past and I have passed on the passes. He is a really good friend. A loyal friend. A fun friend. A friend I can count on. A friend I can confide in. A friend I want around forever.

but.......... part of me knows that he wants more. There is always a bit of of me holding back, being careful around him. I like my male friends to not fancy me (and that ain't hard for most). I do love this friend, I just wish we BOTH knew we will always be friends plantonicly because he means the world to me.

You figure out what that means to you :)

Mr. Excellent
05-05-2003, 08:32 AM
Already got a couple friends like that, actually. On one level, it kinda stinks - and the closer you get as friends, the harder it is to "upgrade" later. According to my human behavior class (a 100-level, watered-down psych class required of all undergrads, so HUGE grain of salt here) women really groove on *emotional* intimacy, emotional closeness. They can get that quite easily with a platonic friendship, so they have absolutely no reason to upgrade that. Whereas guys, of course, want that physical element, and so have a strong incentive to upgrade. What this means, of course, is that the women in question quickly (in my experience) stop thinking of you as a guy, and think of you simply as their friend. Which is cool, but then they'll say things ("Man, I had such great sex last night") or do things (Talk to you in nothing but short-shorts and a PJ top that's too small) that reminds you you're male - but it wouldn't do to say that. :)

Why do I do it, then? Well, ladies, you already know part of the reason - women tend to be smarter than men. On my dorm floor, there are very few women who cannot hold a very good political/philosophical conversation. There's only a few guys who can. So, it's a matter of common interests. (This does NOT mean I'm a girly-man, just means I'm cultured. or something like that.)

Also, as Marley pointed out, there is something in my relationships with my female friends that just makes them feel more substantial, and makes me feel more comfortable talking to them about personal issues that may come up.

Finally - a female friend is a wonderful, wonderful resource, a reference without comparison, worth her weight in gold. I mean, a girlfriend usually won't last forever, and when that relationship is gone, it tends to REALLY be gone. But friendship - ah, that has much more staying power. Which means that for a long time, your female friend can give you advice. Need to know what sort of cologne women like their men to wear? Ask! Need to know how women *want* to be propositioned? Ask! Sex question? In many cases - Ask!

Mr. Excellent
05-05-2003, 08:37 AM
Oh, and "Heart on My Sleeve" - I don't know why, exactly, but the combination of your username, May registration date, and low post count suggests to me that you registered to ask this question, or at least had it at the top of your mind. This isn't a hypothetical for you, is it?

So, here's my advice to you - be this girl's friend if you really, honestly can be her friend. As other posters have commented, that means no trying to get into her pants! If you're just hoping to be Rebound Man when her current relationship fails (which it probably will, most do), then you're being her friend for the wrong reason.

Phatlewt
05-05-2003, 08:48 AM
Good Advice, Mr. E.

I like being friends with women. It's a different kind of friendship than I have with guys, even when sexuality doesn't ever enter the equation. But, if I'm attracted to someone, especially someone who isn't attracted to me, or isn't available, it's not a very good basis for a friendship.

insomnia4AM
05-05-2003, 09:18 AM
Funny that this thread appears today because I had this question last night.

All of my closest friends are guys. Most of these friendships came out of an attempt at a relationship, and my personal experience is that it made our friendship better.

merge
05-05-2003, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by Heart On My Sleeve
If there was a woman you were attracted to who was unavailable, but she wanted to be friends, close friends, would you do it? And why?

Well, if you are attracted to this woman... then yes...
The good thing about attractive women is that they usually have attractive friends... and if they like you as a friend, then they will probably want to set you up with one of their friends...

If you feel more for this woman... like if you start to fall in love with her... then you would probably be better off not being close with her...

Mr. Excellent
05-05-2003, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by msmith537
Does she have hot, permiscuous friends?

Hmm. "Permiscuous"? Doubt it. "Promiscuous", though - well, there's some hope there.

Spelling Nazis get all the fun. Not to mention the ladies! :D

DougC
05-05-2003, 10:28 AM
If there was a woman you were attracted to who was unavailable, but she wanted to be friends, close friends, would you do it? And why?
- - - No.
- "As I Have Seen It", it isn't natural for a guy to want to "hang around" women unless there's some ulterior motive or unless the guy is gay. And any straight guy that tries to "hang around" a girl that doesn't want him looks lame (-in her eyes, as well as the eyes of others) and decreases his chances of hooking up with anybody.
~

cowgirl
05-05-2003, 10:29 AM
I had a friend called Dave. He was very cute and fun, and he had a girlfriend. We remained casual friends, enjoying each other's company, never crossing any friend/shag boundaries. It was just a pleasant casual friendship. I never thought of it as a potential relationship.

Several years on we were both single, and whaddaya know - we hooked up. It was brief (we were both moving to opposite ends of the earth) and lovely. I will always remember him fondly.

I think he had a wonderful skill of making friends with women and keeping them in an ambiguous zone - neither "just friends" nor "more than friends" - so that if future circumstances changed, a relationship would be possible.

Please remember, though (as calm kiwi points out) : women who have "friends" who are clearly interested in them can get very, very uncomfortable. Do not place any expectations on her. Do not tell her how you feel unless (a) you have a reasonable expectation that she feels the same way, and (b) you are prepared to lose her if she is not comfortable with the situation.

Optihut
05-05-2003, 10:44 AM
I tried to be friends with the women who turned me down, but so far it never worked out.

One time I couldn't stand her boyfriend and got into arguments about that, so we both decided it would be best to go our separate ways.

Another time I wanted to show that I wasn't interested in her anymore and ended up acting like a complete jerk, which in turn made her ignore me.

In both cases I am pretty sure that I am better off this way, because I have enough friends as it is, male and female alike, and don't really need to hang out with people, who'll only cause heartache for me.

Sublight
05-05-2003, 12:11 PM
From my own experience, I'd say 'yes, if...'

Yes, if, you can get over your attraction to her and actually think of her as a friend and not as someone you hope to go out with someday.

In high school and college, there were a couple of women who said "no, but I want to be friends" to me, and I saw it as a 'foot in the door' to her one day changing her answer to 'yes'. As a result, time that could have been spent looking for new romantic interests while at the same time having an good honest friendship, was instead wasted on making her feel awkward and me feel foolish (when looking back on my cluelessness).

Now, on the other hand, I'm married and not looking for anyone new. In my office, there are a number of women who are extremely attractive, but I know that there's no chance of a romance between me and any of them. Instead, we're good friends. Our friendship is an honest one, and it makes our office a much more pleasant place to work.

Stonebow
05-05-2003, 12:41 PM
um...nope.

as has been said, i can imagine that it can be uncomforatble for the girl, knowing that if she 'weakens,' it could be construed as an invitation for something more. I generally don't worry that going out for a good time with guy friends will end up with one of them on top of me. though it has happened. but that's another story.

the other thing is that for a guy, you're better off signing some sort of 'indentured servitude' contract so that at least you get something tangible out of it. in my experience, guy friends are generally kept on tap for moving, fixing stuff, building projects, etc. in return, they get to bask in the presence of a woman that they'd love to boff, but never will. a lot of the 'nice guys' that i know end up here, and people are always surprised when they go postal over the frustration over the whole thing. guys do NOT like ambiguous relationships, ladies.

Jadis
05-05-2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by Badtz Maru
Yeah, it's worth it to remain friends. You never know when there might be an opportunity to upgrade the relationship. She might pass out drunk, for instance...

I sure hope you're kidding, but....call me a tightass, but I don't find suggesting date rape all that funny. I'm weird that way, I suppose. :mad:

Contrary
05-05-2003, 01:01 PM
Well call me silly and a literalist but based on the way you worded your question, I'd say move on.

If you consider friendship with a woman a waste of time then don't bother, eh?

Beagle
05-05-2003, 01:28 PM
Of course. But, I'm married. It's a foregone conclusion I'll just be friends with any woman I meet. Maybe some day I'll get lucky and this hypothetical hottie will rape me. ;)

Seriously, women are actual human beings with interests and opinions and stuff? Who knew?

B. Serum
05-05-2003, 01:43 PM
Yes.

Aside from the initial "Hey, she's kinda cute!" reaction that hooks me in the first place, from that point on, it's all about the quality of our chemistry, the quality of our personal interaction. If she's got that, she's a kindred spirit and whether or not we get to date, she's a good friend and those can be hard to find. You will enjoy the time you spend with her if you just get past the romantic thing.

If you don't have that quality of personal interaction in the first place, then I would say don't waste your time dating her.

jeevmon
05-05-2003, 02:43 PM
Most often not, thanks to lessons in Real Life. I've done the hanging around and staying friends with someone I knew I was attracted to and who I knew was involved with someone else, and who I was hoping would break up with JerkGuy and hook up with me. That's a recipe for pain.

Usually it's the guy crushing on the girl, but at least one of my female friends is dealing with the same thing in reverse, so it is equal opportunity.

Ethilrist
05-05-2003, 02:46 PM
Well, there's a huge difference between being friends with someone who's unavailable and being friends with someone who has turned you down. The first one works, the second one tends not to.

Bear also in mind that, particularly once you're out of college, the ratio of unavailable-to-available is going to swing way over onto the side of unavailable, so you better develop the ability to be friends with women without getting involved with them if you want to have any female friends.

For some guys, that's not important.

Lizard
05-05-2003, 02:53 PM
It really depends. I didn't have a lot of experience being "friends" with women until the last few years. Before that, I pretty much wanted to screw every woman I was friendly with.
What made me think about it a little were some of the women I knew at my last job. They ranged in age from 23 to about 45, almost all of them attractive. The problem was, they were all married. The one who was 23 I got to be quite close with. If there was such a thing as "emotional" cheating, then she probably did it with me. She confided her problems with depression to me. She told me how she was unhappy with her husband/marriage/job, etc. I knew there was going to be no sex with her (we were both not the type to do that while she was married) but I really just. . . .liked her. If I had to do it all over again, I would've kept the friendship from getting that deep, and spared myself the frustration.

After this incident I sat and thought about all my relationships with women, and decided the following:

I WILL be friends with a woman if:
- She's so much older than me a relationship is out of the question.
- I don't find her even slightly attractive.
- She's married and has kids. I might lust after such a woman, but I would never act on it.
- I am in a serious relationship with someone else.
- She's single, and I'm single.

I will NOT be friends with a woman if:
- I'm single, and she is young, pretty, friendly, and attached.
- Our "friendship" consists of me listening to her talk about herself.

These rules cover every woman I've known so far in my life.

Lizard
05-05-2003, 02:56 PM
Damn! Switch "She's single, and I'm single" to the list of reasons I would not be friends with a woman.

BytopianDream
05-05-2003, 03:05 PM
I have done it and had great friendships with women.
I like having women friends, it makes life more interesting.

I mean really, I don't HAVE to do every women I ever meet ever.
Then who would I fantasize about?

Ura-Maru
05-05-2003, 04:22 PM
Short answer no with a ‘but,’ long answer yes with an ‘if.’

It’s quite possible to be real friends with someone you’re attracted to. However, pretending to be ok with ‘friends’ with someone you really want is not a good idea. It will cause frustration for you, awkwardness for her if she figures it out, and is pretty manipulative. It’s a bad situation all around.

And keep in mind that staying ‘friends’ may not be what she wants, either. ‘I want to keep it friends’ often means, ‘I don’t like you, but am trying to soften the blow.’ Also, it may mean ‘I want you to give me boundless emotional support and do me frequent favors, while I am not particularly interested in your problems.’ That’s not really a good situation, either.

That’s frequently the start of the ‘Amazing Double Boyfriend Routine,’ where she gets physical fulfillment from Boyfriend #1, and emotional fulfillment from Boyfriend #2. This is not good for anyone, except (arguably) Boyfriend #1.

Also, in my experience, the odds of ‘upgrading’ are not very good, anyway. While most women I know claim that they’d date friends, in practice, the only times I’ve ever seen it happen are when either the ‘friendship’ period was very short, or they were separated for a while just before the upgrade period. Well, and one Fuckbuddy Escalation that didn’t work out too well. And for some reason, it seems women are happy to ‘set up’ casual friends, but not close ones.

It also depends on what you mean by ‘friends.’ Staying part of the same social group but not being too close is probably your best bet if you’re hoping to snatch victory from the claws of defeat, as it were. It’s also more or less honest. And learning how to treat people you are attracted to in a ‘normal’ manner is a pretty useful skill to develop.

If you have it really bad, and don’t think you can be around her without thinking in Sinful, Evil Ways,TM the best thing to do is separate for a bit. Usually this kind of thing gets more manageable with time.

--
Fuckbuddy Escalation would make a pretty good final attack name, no?

av8rmike
05-05-2003, 04:47 PM
Would I? You've just described nearly all of my friends.

mipiace
05-05-2003, 04:52 PM
YEs, if you like her than it isn't a waste of time. Try getting to know her and acccepting her as a person and not just someone you want to put your tool in. I am a little irritated right now bwecause Iam in the sme situation. Met a guy who pretended to be sincere but since I don't want to fly across the country and become his new girlfriend (did i mention he is living with someone?) then I have injured him......GRRRRR makes me pretty darned steamy. As a matter of fact, I am going to the pit with this one.

sunstone
05-05-2003, 11:27 PM
My best friend for the last 25 years has been a very attractive female. She knows that I think she is attractive, and I know that she thinks I'm attractive, but we've never done anything about it for a variety of reasons.

She is smart, funny, ambitious, and totally in tune with me. And she would take it further if we wanted. But she is such a good friend I prefer to have that...this kind of friend is very rare!

It is sorta nice to just ogle her every once in a while...and she has to see me doing this...it is a bit of a joke with us.

Humans...such deliciously complex critters!

Blalron
05-06-2003, 02:52 AM
No, it's too painful to spend time listening to someone I am attracted to go on and on about how much she loves her boyfriend or has a crush on some guy.

Playing the role of Platonic Friend Man for too long, I have come to the conclusion that all it does is further exacerbate the cold harsh reality that my craving for a physical relationship isn't being fufilled. Being in the company of some beautiful attractive female whom I desire intensely, yet she doesn't feel the same way about me is torture.

Sure I'd spend time being "just friends"... that is, if I want to get blue balls and cry myself to sleep every night.

HPL
05-06-2003, 03:19 AM
I have a couple female friends. When I first met them, I considering the option of dating and got the idea that at least one of them was considering it as well, but I decided that due to certain reasons, niether would be people I'd actually want to date. So now they are friends(and one of them has since hooked up with someone else), and it doesn't bother me at all. It's probably because I'm picky, because pretty much every girl I've met and gotten to know well enough, there has always been some kind of dealkiller for a relationship in there, but it doesn't stop me from being friends.

Khadaji
05-06-2003, 09:53 AM
Yes. If I like a woman well enough to want to date her, why would I not like her well enough to be her friend? There is an old saying: After passion, friendship. I don't fully agree - I want both passion AND friendship.

However, if you are hoping that by waiting she will eventually want you - well, it may happen, but I think you are wasting your time.

Marley23
05-06-2003, 11:22 AM
the other thing is that for a guy, you're better off signing some sort of 'indentured servitude' contract so that at least you get something tangible out of it. in my experience, guy friends are generally kept on tap for moving, fixing stuff, building projects, etc. in return, they get to bask in the presence of a woman that they'd love to boff, but never will.
Just wanted to say I've never had this happen. At best we're attempting to say how an entire gender behaves, which gets kinda tricky.

mipiace
05-06-2003, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by cowgirl
I had a friend called Dave. He was very cute and fun, and he had a girlfriend. We remained casual friends, enjoying each other's company, never crossing any friend/shag boundaries. It was just a pleasant casual friendship. I never thought of it as a potential relationship.

Several years on we were both single, and whaddaya know - we hooked up. It was brief (we were both moving to opposite ends of the earth) and lovely. I will always remember him fondly.

I think he had a wonderful skill of making friends with women and keeping them in an ambiguous zone - neither "just friends" nor "more than friends" - so that if future circumstances changed, a relationship would be possible.



Holy shit - I swear I know that guy.....and he's good too isn't he?

Sock Munkey
05-06-2003, 03:40 PM
It's better if you have a GF of your own before trying to become friends with her.

rhinostylee
05-06-2003, 04:43 PM
I have never had a girl as a friend that I did not want to sleep with eventually, no matter how slim my chances were. Well, I guess I had a few, but I didn't really value the friendship at all. I know it sucks, but that's how it goes for me.

mipiace
05-06-2003, 04:57 PM
Well there is that When Harry Met Sally debate that a guy always wants to sleep with his femmale friends but a little chemestry doesn't hurt a friendship as long as you are mindful of the boundaries. If you go pining off for a relationship she has no interest is she is going to think you are pathetic.

Jack Sarang
05-06-2003, 06:09 PM
Nope. I can't be friends with women I'm attracted too. So no, I wouldn't waste my time, because I'd just end up frustrated with the situation.

Eva Luna
05-06-2003, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by jeevmon

Usually it's the guy crushing on the girl, but at least one of my female friends is dealing with the same thing in reverse, so it is equal opportunity.

You called? ;)

Seriously, some people can handle it and some can't. Even those who can't handle it with some people might be able to handle it with others. Call me weird (and I know jeevmon will; it's one of his favorite things to do these days, whether he does it out loud or not), but sometimes a person is special in such a way that I'm not willing to toss out the rest of the relationship, even if the romantic and/or physical attraction is one-sided.

This is also why I generally try to remain on friendly terms with exes. One ex, in fact, is often the first person I will call when I really want an honest opinion about any relationship issue. Sometimes the fact that we know each other so well is a huge advantage. Plus his wife is really cool. Of course, we broke up 15 years ago, which probably helps lend some ojectivity to the situation.

(And FTR, if he was talking about me, it's not entirely one-sided, a matter for which I have a certain amount of empirical evidence. Whether it pans out in the end is another story, but hey, sometimes a girl's gotta take her chances.).

And may I say that those of you who see no point in having a non-sexual, non-romantic relationship with a person of the opposite sex in general are really missing out? Just because your body parts were designed to fit into each other doesn't mean you have to fit them at every possible opportunity. There are other ways to hang out.

jeevmon
05-07-2003, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by Eva Luna
You called? ;)

. . .

And may I say that those of you who see no point in having a non-sexual, non-romantic relationship with a person of the opposite sex in general are really missing out? Just because your body parts were designed to fit into each other doesn't mean you have to fit them at every possible opportunity. There are other ways to hang out.

Well, I don't think anyone was suggesting that. The OP was asking about being friends with someone of the preferred sex to whom you are attracted. Which is different than just being friends.

(And, may I say Eva Luna, it sounds like you either know cowgirl's ex or a close relative.)

Zap_Rowsdower
05-07-2003, 10:14 AM
Yes, one can never have too many friends. When we first met, I was really interested and would have liked to have been more than friends. Now our relationship is almost sibling like, I treat her like a sister and vica versa, and the idea of it changing to a romantic relationship seems odd. However I occasionally remind her that both sides of my family have roots in Arkansas, but so far ;) all I get is a :rolleyes:.

Eva Luna
05-07-2003, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by jeevmon
Well, I don't think anyone was suggesting that. The OP was asking about being friends with someone of the preferred sex to whom you are attracted. Which is different than just being friends.

(And, may I say Eva Luna, it sounds like you either know cowgirl's ex or a close relative.)

Well, apparently there is indeed something about guys named Dave, at least in regard to my recent dating history. (Darn Old Testament!) I will note for the record, though, that my friend is currently single, and therefore (technically, at least) available. (Plus it hopefully means cowgirl and I aren’t talking about the same guy.) As for the rest, well, we’ll see how it turns out. Maybe I’m just too big a fan of delayed gratification for my own good, but I may well be willing to take a chance on this one.

It’s true that nobody has said outright in that thread that they don’t see the point I having friends of the opposite gender. Several have said that they find it too complicated and/or painful to have a non-romantic and/or non-sexual relationship with someone toward whom they feel romantic and/or sexual. Others have mentioned that well, they suppose they could handle the mixed feelings, but just didn’t see the point and/or didn’t think the endeavor was worthwhile. My mileage varies, as some of my best friends are exes. And you might be surprised if you knew how many mutual and/or one-sided attractions there have been among my close circle of friends. This kind of relationship may not be the societal norm, but hey, neither am I.