Car Shopping: Prius vs. Forrester

[Peg]

Your opinion please!

I'm in the market for a new car and will likely buy before the end of the year. The car I purchase should be good for commuting with enough space for gear. I like to go camping, my fiancee snowboards and would love to have a car with a rack for toting his gear around. Also, my fiance has a 4-door sedan vehicle and I don't want to "repeat" that. And I cannot stress enough that I do NOT want an SUV.

It's basically down to 2 models, the Toyota Prius and the Subaru Forrester.

For a long time I've wanted a hybrid car. I admit that while the look and mileage of the Honda Insight is very attractive, its size isn't. That thing is tiny! So we looked at the Prius and I like that. I heard that Toyota is coming out with a Prius hatchback, so I will certainly get that if I go with the Prius. I currently drive an Acura Integra and like the 40/60 seats and load capacity. My concerns with a hybrid is (1) maintenance issues & cost, and (2) will it have enough power to go up the mountains? Granted we don't do this every day, but I loathe to be the person who holds up 10 cars because my car can't zoom up the roads.

The second option is the Subaru Forrester. This seems to be a very solid car, but I'm less than enthusiastic about the gas mileage. Actually, I'm pretty appaled at all the gas mileages of the cars I looked at. 20MPG on the highway is considered good these days?! Crud. Anyway, I've never driven a car this big, but it seems to handle quite nicely. I don't know if this is all that great a commuting car, however. Anyone know if the continual 4WD is a problem?

I'd appreciate your thoughts and especially experience with either cars.

[N9IWP]

There is also a Honda Civic Hybrid. My main problem with hybrids is the trunk space (and the rear seats don't fold down)

I too am displeased that most new cars don't get better milage than my 10 year-old Geo Prizm which by no means is a huge car, but does have folding rear seats and enough room for what I need.

I wish Subaru made 2WD cars, because I kinda like the outback sport (or whatever the miniwagon is) but want better milage.

Brian

[Dangerosa]

I drive a Forester, and I'm thinking about trading it in in the next few years for a Prius.

The Forester does drive nice. It sits and drives more like a car than an SUV, even a mini SUV. It has been very nice since I got it when my son was a baby, and I haven't had to do a lot of bending to get the kids in and out. The hatch is great for strollers and groceries and golf clubs. And the 4 wheel drive makes Minnesota winters much more pleasant. I've had it four years and haven't had a problem with it.

But I don't like the mileage either. I commute 28 miles each way to work - and that's my primary driving. I don't want a hybrid yet - I want to wait and see how they hold up with maintence costs (and how they handle the Minnesota winter). I also still have my kids in carseats, and having a four door and room for carseats is really nice.

In another two years, both my kids will be out of carseats and the Prius (and other hybrids) will have a record I can evaluate.

[jacobsta]

While I personally wouldn't ever get any of these types of cars (I currently own a Toyota Tundra Fullsize Pickup)- I think for the type of thing you want to do, something like the volkswagon Jetta wagon is going to be ideal- The space you need, combined with exceptional gas mileage. Although, don't overlook small "SUVs", which tend to get unfairly lumped together with behemoths like the Hummer H2- vehicles like the Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4, or Ford Escape Hybrid, which also are fairly environmentally friendly and allow you to lug a reasonable amount of gear.

[Sunspace]

Wait for the '04 Prius. It's gonna be a knockout in the looks department, at least according to the article and picture in the Toronto Star I read...

[Heart On My Sleeve]

I have a Prius and I love it. The maintenance costs are actually very low. You only have to get oil changed every 7500 miles. I have not paid any more (possibly less) for maintenance than any of my other cars. And of course, I save big on gas.

I've had the car for almost 3 years, I got one of the first in the general public U.S. in October 2000.

I live in northern Illinois and it handles fine in bad weather. I'm not getting the mileage as advertised, but I spend a lot of my time going 70-75 on the freeway, which is not optimal.

Pick up is okay, and I've never driven it through the mountains. You should check out http://www.evworld.com/databases/evj_list.cfm?vehicleid=1 to see if there are any journal entries for people living in the mountains.

I've driven this car so many places since I'm a regional road warrier and it has been so very reliable and comfy.

As for space, it has been fine for me. It's been compared to the Camry in size, I'm not sure about that. I do carry tons o' junk around with me, and the trunk is probably bigger than most compact cars, but it's not THAT big.

I've seen pics of the new Prius and it looks bigger than the current one...

GOOD LUCK. Of course, I hope you go with the Prius, but I hear many great things about that Subaru (sp?).

[Brynda]

We drove a Forester through a Michigan winter and loved it. It feels much more stable in bad weather than other cars I have driven. Other than that, I have noticed the AWD; it drives like a car.

[minor7flat5]

Looks like some fairly competant unbiased observers agree with your taste:
Consumer Reports says that your Prius is recommended over the Honda Insight.

When evaluating Insight:
It rides stiffly, handles less nimbly, and has a very noisy cabin. The battery pack hogs a lot of what would be trunk space. . . . The Honda Civic Hybrid and Toyota Prius are far more practical choices among hybrids.
The Prius received the highest rating for reliability and satisfaction, and was not evaluated for depreciation, the only other main category. It received their "Recommended" stamp.

This month, they did a review of small SUVs that included Subaru Forester, Honda Element, Mitsubishi Outlander, Kia Sorento, and Pontiac Aztec. In the end, the Forester came out on top above the rest. Both the Forester and Element received the "Recommended" stamp.

It appears that you cannot go wrong with either choice. I am very interested in Forester owner's input since I am considering one for my wife.

I agree with folks about the crappy milage of cars. My '95 Saturn four-door sedan gets 42mpg on the highway. I would like to see more of this type of efficiency in new cars.

[Geoduck]

Since your fiancee and you enjoy outdoor activities, an AWD vehicle like the Forrester seems to better meet your needs. Wagons, like the Forrester, are more functional vehicles--you can fit more stuff and more types of stuff in them.
Unless commuting is your primary purpose for purchasing a new car and your budget is lean(get a used rental car instead), I don't think gas mileage is all that big of a deal.

The Forrester looks far nicer than the dorky Prius does, too.

[Peg]

Thanks for all your thoughts. I really appreciate it, and am comforted that both cars are rated highly in their categories.

Ponder ponder ponder....

[Contrary]

Here's another vote for the Honda CRV -- yes I know that one wasn't on your list, sorry. But I have had mine since November and I love, love, love it.

[JungleLove]

I have an '01 Forester.
I love how it rides, the rear hatchback & compartments.
I really like that its center of gravity is lower because of the??? what do you call it.... horizontally-opposed engine? It corners well & doesn't feel as unsteady as a RAV4.

If there was one thing I would change it would be the gas mileage.
And in the '01 model the back windshield wipers only have intermittent speed, but Subaru gave it more speeds after that year.

I keep thinking my next car will be a hybrid, but I hear they cost more than non-hybrids, so maybe not.

[Laughing Lagomorph]

I drive a 2000 Forrester which we bought new. It is my primary commuting car, about 25 miles each way. Maintenance costs have been reasonable, no major problems. I love the All Wheel Drive (different from 4 wheel Drive, BTW) which was one of the main reasons we got it. I would swear we average more like 22-24 mpg but I have never calculated it rigorously.

The main drawback, for us? The interior is smaller than ideal, now that we have a kid. Seriously, neither me nor my wife is that big, but when we pack for a long weekend the interior gets pretty tight, what with the toddler seat, stroller, suitcases. The back seat is not spacious under any circumstances. Of course, my wife could pack lighter...yeah right!

For our next family car we are considering something like the Buick Rendezvous, which is ugly as sin but a decent compromise between price, size, and mileage IMHO. Then I would drive something smaller for commuting.

Peg, you know what our previous car before the Forrester was? Acura Integra. Spooky, huh?

[Ludovic]

I just need to say at this point, the Prius has, quite possibly, the worst car name ever created. I'd buy one, though, if I wanted a car that mad me think of painful, ceaseless erections.

[minor7flat5]

Originally posted by JungleLove
what do you call it.... horizontally-opposed engineA Boxer engine.

Cool! Didn't know it had one.

[Rocketeer]

Take a look at the Suzuki Aerio (http://www.suzukiauto.com/sr03/aeriosdn/features.html). Loads of interior space, enormous trunk, $2000 rebates. Available in an AWD version (requires automatic transmission).

Just bought two, one sedan and one hatchback. Nice little car, might be what you need. Mine gets 30 mpg on my (mostly rural) commute. Only downside is that it's a little unstable in crosswinds (slab sides).

[racekarl]

Come on, the Prius ain't that bad of a name, the Aerio and Nubira are far worse... ;)

The OP's decision is an odd one, given how different these cars are in their missions.

Geoduck was spot on in his/her recommendation that you pick based on how you anticipate using the car most, since there is so little overlap in what these cars are good at. If you most need a commuter car, get the Prius hands down. If you really really want to be able to haul stuff and go offroad at all, then the Forrester is your car. Either way you've picked a good pair to choose from.

Geoduck however was way off with the recommendation of buying a former rental car. Seriously folks, don't ever do that; there are few cars that are more poorly maintained and more thouroughly abused than rental cars.

[ptr2void]

Originally posted by minor7flat5
I am very interested in Forester owner's input since I am considering one for my wife.
We got a 2003 Forester XS last August and we love it. My wife wanted a RAV4, but I got her to test drive it and she liked it. Now that she drives it every day on a 90+ mile commute (put about 17K miles on it), she loves it, as does everyone in her family. It's great in the winter weather. We'll probably get another if I ever get a new job.

As far as gas mileage goes, I'd say we get around 25 mpg highway (where it's driven primarily).

Maintenance-wise, I ran into a problem a couple of months ago where the inhibition switch/wiring harness was going bad, so it was difficult to shift out of park. The dealership fixed it under warranty and provided a rental car free of charge and without a hassle.

Nitpicks:
1. I wish the rear hatch window opened for long cargo.
2. Remote gas cover release is somewhat of an annoyance, as is its location on the passenger's side (I prefer it on the driver's side...just seems more natural to pull up on the right side of the island).
3. Cheap plastic steering column cover, noticeable when the keys are bouncing off of it.
4. Should've got the cargo nets to prevent groceries and the like from moving around in the back (there are two grocery bag hooks, but that's not really enough for a full load).

[Peg]

Originally posted by racekarl
The OP's decision is an odd one, given how different these cars are in their missions.

I know, and that's what makes the decision difficult. I want it all - a car with trunk space for stuff and a dog, but with good gas mileage. Mr. Peg-to-Be is trying to convince me that we need three cars - 1 each for commuting and a third for play, but what the hell??! We have no kids and don't anticipate on having kids for a while (barring suprises, anyway). I don't see the point of having 3 cars. IMO, it's just another needless expense.

Perhaps it's time to pull out the pro/con list...

Originally posted by
Peg, you know what our previous car before the Forrester was? Acura Integra. Spooky, huh?

:) I do like the Integra. Too bad Acura's getting rid of it.

[racekarl]

Too bad Acura's getting rid of it
In name only though. The RSX and TSX fill the same position in the lineup...

[thingnumberone]

I also own a 2000 Forester here in Colorado. I absolutely love the car, and consider it the most reliable car I've ever owned. I drive about 40 miles each way to work, and get about 25 mpg with quite a bit of stop and go traffic. We've packed suitcases for 12 people into the back area (with the back seats down) - the cargo space is unbelievable. My only nitpick is that I wish I bought it in a manual versus automatic transmission. Going up into the Colorado mountains gets tough on the automatic (although I can keep up with the traffic). I understand the manual transmission is much better for power than the automatic. And having AWD is nice when it's snowing.

I'd definitely buy another Forester, and recommend it for anyone with a need for a car version of an SUV.

[Morbo]

I bought a 2003 Forester XS last November. My commute is 35 miles one way, mostly highway but some hilly San Francisco streets as well. I love it. They must have improved the gas mileage, b/c I keep a log of the mileage I get (I'm a geek) and I average in the high 20's. In fact, last week I got to 30mpg. (But I drove in on fumes). Mine is a 5-speed, certainly the Automatics get slightly worse.

My favorite thing about it, other than everything already mentioned by others, is the sunroof. The sunroof is HUGE - it goes halfway into the back seat. Cruising up Hwy 1 with all the windows down and that big sunroof open is nice.

My only complaints - no Seek button the radio, and it's not as fast as my last car. But neither am I. :)

Originally posted by ptr2void
2. Remote gas cover release is somewhat of an annoyance, as is its location on the passenger's side (I prefer it on the driver's side...just seems more natural to pull up on the right side of the island).

:confused: Mine is on the driver's side...

[Testacleaz]

I know that this is not one on your list but you might want to check out the Volkswagon New Beetle TDI. Now before everybody freaks out let me say that this car fills a lot of your needs. It uses diesel but is extremely clean burning, I was told that it rated as a green vehicle by the dealer (take that for what it's worth, it is after all coming from a car salesman). My wife and I own a 2001 and love it. We traded in a four-wheel drive Suburban on it. It gets the stated milage of 43 mpg. Oh and it's an automatic so I have to assume that the standard tranny will get the 49 mpg tha VW claims. There is a tremendous amount of leg room up front. I am 5' 10" and still have plenty of head and leg room. We have two boys ages 9 and 7 and they have tons of room in back. Adults would be a little uncomfortable on a very long trip but short trips, no problems. The hatch will hold a surprising amount stuff and you can fold down the back seat for even more space. You can get some really cool-looking roof racks for holding all kinds of bulky items. The car comes standard with electric windows, locks, and the remote open switch for the feul tank is on the driver's side (tank is on the right). I have also seen a Bug running around here in Savannah that has a receiver hitch that she has a bike carrier on.

Well that was a bit long winded but I think you might be very pleased with the New Beetle TDI if you check it out. Well that's my 2 cents for what it's worth.

[Tortuga]

To semi-second Testacleaz, the VW TDi is a wonderful thing. We have a 2003 Jetta Wagon TDI and absolutely love it. It's so much cleaner and quieter than "traditional" diesel engines that it almost doesn't compare. Plus you can fill it with Biodiesel and be completely independent of OPEC etc. The range is 710 miles highway, and the wagon has more than enough room for our dogs and backpacking stuff. VWs come with a ton of stuff as standard that you have to put on as options with other makers. It comes with a base roof rack, and we ordered it with leather (multi function steering wheel, yummy smell), cold weather package (heated seats, heated washer nozzles), ESP (an anti-slip electronics thang), and the Monsoon stereo (nice sounds) and even with all CA taxes, tire fees, etc. got it for thousands less than you will pay for the Prius or Forrester. We really love the wagon, tons of room, but it sounds like you could get by with the Golf TDi too. www.Tdiclub.com has forums and a FAQs sheet that will make a believer out of you.

With the Prius, you have to buy special tires, the horsepower is weak, and the body is based on the Echo, which, IMHO, looks like a little tin cat toiletbox.
The TDi requires no special tires, and after your first, 5,000 mile break-in oil change, only needs 10,000 mile increment oil changes. The diesel engine has a LONG life (500,000 miles is not unheard of), the cars are SOLID, has more horsepower (apparently more than the spec sheet says even, as TDI club members have dynoed and found more with no mods) and just kicks ass. Hmmmm....what else? VW has good financing right now, and the TDI is less trendy and harder to steal than the Prius.
I don't know too much about the Forrester, as fuel mileage was my major point when I was researching, but the TDI wagon is front wheel drive and can't accept chains (we have to buy some outset tread things called a spider or somesuch) but there are many TDI owners who live in snowy areas who swear by the ESP on the forums.

Geez, can you tell we really love our wagon? It seems to have made a car salesperson out of me...one caveat, however, the VW TDI is awesome, the dealers are not. Generally uninformed and math-impaired, we did all the dealing over the phone.

One more thing: Consumer Reports gave the TDI a bad reliability rating based on outdated info--the window regulators and relay 109 have been fixed and the coilpack issues are inapplicable to the TDI.

Happy research!

[Tortuga]

P.S. I live in a very hilly region and definitely don't hold anyone up (unless they're tailgating me at prime deer-wandering-into-the-roadway time) and the wagon is a joy to drive on our twisty, hilly roads. Shifting is very smooth, suspension the same... I think the dogs and I are going to go for a spin right now.

[ptr2void]

Originally posted by ptr2void
2. Remote gas cover release is somewhat of an annoyance, as is its location on the passenger's side (I prefer it on the driver's side...just seems more natural to pull up on the right side of the island).
Originally posted by Dooku
:confused: Mine is on the driver's side...
That was not the most well-constructed sentence! I meant that the fuel filler door is on the passenger's side. :smack:

[racekarl]

I meant that the fuel filler door is on the passenger's side
hijack:
And you should be thankful for this rather than annoyed. It is, after all, a safety feature. Those thoughtful engineers have realized that the most dangerous fuel-filling situation would occur if you run out of gas on the road and are forced to fill from a jerry can. With the fuel filler on the passenger's side, you will be standing away from passing cars (in the US). Despite the fact that they drive on the left in Japan, thoughful Subaru has swapped the filler for the US to keep you safe and all you can do is complain ;)

/hijack

[badmana]

The 2 cars mentioned aren't really in the same class so I'm a little confused how you came down to those 2.

Other cars to consider (in more the forester class) would include the Matrix AWD, Aerio AWD, Focus or the Mazda MP5.

I have the Matrix XRS (only FWD) and it's great but not very good on gas. If you need the space, the AWD Matrix is a good bet (and it's much cheaper than a Forester). The 123 HP engine is much better in gas than my 180 HP engine and hey, it's a corolla so it's reliable.

Check out carpoint.com for more choices.

[Morbo]

Ah, that makes sense now ptr2void. My fuel door is also on the passenger side.

[Tortuga]

So who'd you pick?
This thread needs an update. ;)