Warning! Foul language herein!

All this news about the Cursing Canoeist in Michigan* left me with a question: Who decided that the F-word or S-word were so offensive that uttering them is abhorrent?

I don't have an OED but, as far as etymology, Merriam-Webster gives me:

Fuck -- akin to Dutch fokken to breed (cattle), Swedish dialect fokka to copulate

Shit -- (assumed) Middle English, from Old English scite; akin to Old English -scItan to defecate

Now, I think a college prof told me one time that curse words goes back to the Normans after they invaded England. What ever the heck language the Normans spoke became *the* language of England. And whatever the heck language the conquered people spoke (Angles? Jutes? No idea here) was considered barbaric and therefore offensive to the Normans. The "rhymes-with-puck" and "rhymes-with-spit" curse words came from this "barbaric" language.

Now this was explained to me about 7 years ago and I think it's apparent that my knowledge of both European History and Linguistics approaches zero. Has this been discussed before? Anyone have any ideas? Was my old college prof full of "scite" or what?

* If you haven't heard of the Cursing Canoeist, check out

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/od/ story.html?s=v/nm/19990612/od/cussing_ verdict_1.html

Alphagene

[NOTE: Broke up the url so it wouldn't supersize the page. your humble TubaDiva]


[Note: This message has been edited by TubaDiva]

All this news about the Cursing Canoeist in Michigan* left me with a question: Who decided that the F-word or S-word were so offensive that uttering them is abhorrent?

The Illuminati (English branch) get together every ten years to determine which words are determined to be offensive. The list is published in their magazine.

Either that, or "society" decides what words are offensive. A consensus develops to that you can say "butt" on TV, but not "ass." Why? Sunspots, maybe.

The list of offensive terms changes with time. In Shakespeare's time, "to occupy" was highly suggestive and so offensive that the verb was no longer used. "Bloody" was highly offensive for many years in England, though no one seems to know why (some connection with menstruation has been made, but that's all speculation. Bill Bryson's THE MOTHER TOUNGUE [Read it!] suggests that people just decided that they'd start using "bloody" as a swear word).

It's speculated that "fuck" has remained taboo for so long because of its similarity to "suck." Of course, now you can say "it sucks" on TV, but not if it begins with an "f."

"Shit" was at one time perfectly respectable (as were a lot of semi-taboo words like "fart" "arse", etc.). You're right about the Norman invasion -- English (Old English, I believe) was the language of the lower classes. The upper classes spoke French and looked down upon the "uncouth" speakers. (This doesn't explain "Fuck," since it entered the language well after the Norman Conquest.)

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www.sff.net/people/rothman (http://www.sff.net/people/rothman)

Much to that jamoke's chagrin, the law in Michigan says it's offensive.

Frank Zappa once said "The USA is a nation of laws - poorly written and randomly enforced." Rest in Peace, Frank.

Frank Zappa once said "The USA is a nation of laws - poorly written and randomly enforced." Rest in Peace, Frank.
You'd better watch that kind of talk, son, or I'll have to inform the Central Scrutinizer.

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President of the Vernon Dent fan club.

Bit odd indeed. You can say and write fornication, sodomization, cunnilingus and fellatio to your heart's content but you'll be BEEPed or ###ed as hell if you happen to say or write some real nasty word like ass. Hypocritical to the max.

Strangely enough, I was thinking just a couple of days ago of posting on the exact same subject. Just who ARE those arbiters of good taste? And do they think for a minute we're imbecile enough to conclude that because we don't hear it on T.V. or radio, that we don't see it on the Internet, then it'll magically disappear on the street and in real life?

BTW, Nickrz, thinking of retiring on your salary as moderator ;) ?

Bit odd indeed. You can say and write fornication, sodomization, cunnilingus and fellatio to your heart's content but you'll be BEEPed or ###ed as hell if you happen to say or write some real nasty word like ass. Hypocritical to the max.

Strangely enough, I was thinking just a couple of days ago of posting on the exact same subject. Just who ARE those arbiters of good taste? And do they think for a minute we're imbecile enough to conclude that because we don't hear it on T.V. or radio, that we don't see it on the Internet, then it'll magically disappear on the street and in real life?

BTW, Nickrz, thinking of retiring on your salary as moderator ;) ?