If we die for sinning, what is sin?

[Iyyob]

From what I read from the Bible the answer is found in 1 Yahchanan ( John ) 3:4.
Sin is breaking the Law.
Looking up this word Law it says the Laws found in the Torah.
Those Jewish Laws given by Moses.
Now the Christian religion tells us that those Laws were nailed to some cross and are no longer to be kept.
So is the Christian religion teaching us to die?
If this is true what should we do with those lying preacher boys?
I think tar and feathering them would be a great place to start.
What do you folks say?

Iyyob

[Guinastasia]

Da'hell?

What are you suggesting, exactly?

:confused:

[Mangetout]

I think I might have been asleep for the part where you filled in some of the huge gaps in your logic, particularly the bit between the fifth and sixth line.

[Polycarp]

Yes.

We are to die to self and live a new life in Christ. That's baptism and conversion and metanoia.

But I do have to agree with Mr. Snow Pea that the OP is a strong contender for Most Incoherent OP of 2003!

[Stomp]

If we commit a sin then go to confession and god forgives us, doesn't that mean we can commit many sins and as long as we confess we can just keep on sinning and confessing and as long as our plate is clean before we die then we will still be accepted by god into the great afterlife? (heaven or what have you)

[Polycarp]

Originally posted by Stomp
If we commit a sin then go to confession and god forgives us, doesn't that mean we can commit many sins and as long as we confess we can just keep on sinning and confessing and as long as our plate is clean before we die then we will still be accepted by god into the great afterlife? (heaven or what have you)

Small problems with that analysis, Stomp:

1. Degree of goodness or badness is not the admission ticket to Heaven -- nobody's "good enough to get in" according to Paul. What is, is putting one's trust in Christ and letting His sacrifice pay the admission price.

2. A requisite ingredient for a good confession is repentance -- which implies an intent not to go on sinning. Though of course people can fall into temptation and sin again, the "revolving door" idea of sin/confess/be forgiven/sin/confess/be forgiven... won't work because repentance is absent.

[Apos]

Degree of goodness or badness is not the admission ticket to Heaven -- nobody's "good enough to get in" according to Paul.

That's the scam a lot of exclusive clubs in New York have running. Nobody deserves to come, perhaps you'll be invited out of the good graces of some incredibly snooty guy. Builds major interest in the club. Of course, these parties feature a lot more cocaine that I expect heaven would. :)

Seriosuly though: If nobody's good enough to get in, isn't that pretty obviously by God's explicit design, and not the fault of humanity? When you've got a 100% not good enough rate, it strains credulity to claim that it's by some failing of people's ability to choose. And what do we make of the people in the OT who, apparently, were good enough to get whisked away into what the NT unavoidably has to retcon into its version of Heaven?

[Renob]

Christian theology teaches that all of us are sinners -- the doctrine of original sin -- and that no one is good enough to get into heaven on his or her own efforts. That is why you need forgiveness to purge your sinful nature.

Of course, there is the raging debate about whether someone can choose to seek forgiveness or whether God must choose whom to forgive. I'll leave that to another thread.

[Guinastasia]

Originally posted by Stomp
If we commit a sin then go to confession and god forgives us, doesn't that mean we can commit many sins and as long as we confess we can just keep on sinning and confessing and as long as our plate is clean before we die then we will still be accepted by god into the great afterlife? (heaven or what have you)

As a lapsed Catholic, let me field this one-this is called the sin of presumption. If you confess, but aren't sincere, then no, it's not okay. See, you're supposed to confess with the idea of NOT doing it again. Confession is a way of expressing your guilt and resolving to do better.

It isn't like, oh, hey I like cheating on my wife, but I don't want to get in trouble, so I'll just go to confession after I do it every time.

Doesn't work that way.

[Iyyob]

Seems to me that the Scriptures say the soul that sins will die.
Don't sound like heaven to me...what do you think of that?

Iyyob

[Mangetout]

I don't really know what to think, but fortunately, someone will be along shortly to tell us, in the meantime, please could you explain how you get from:

Now the Christian religion tells us that those Laws were nailed to some cross and are no longer to be kept.
to
So is the Christian religion teaching us to die?

Clearly your mind contains the link to bridge these two statements, please share it.

[Iyyob]

Mangetout

Very simple, the Scriptures say we should live by the Laws found in the Scriptures.
The Christian preachers say we don't need too.
Whom should we believe The Scriptures or the Christian preachers?

Iyyob

[Freyr]

Originally posted by Iyyob
Mangetout

Very simple, the Scriptures say we should live by the Laws found in the Scriptures.
The Christian preachers say we don't need too.
Whom should we believe The Scriptures or the Christian preachers?

Iyyob

So, Iyyob, when are you converting to Orthodox Judeaism?

To take a more serious note on this, which Christian preachers are saying this? Where are they saying this? To whom are they saying this? Context is everything.

[Father of Loki]

Originally posted by Apos
That's the scam a lot of exclusive clubs in New York have running. Nobody deserves to come, perhaps you'll be invited out of the good graces of some incredibly snooty guy. Builds major interest in the club. Of course, these parties feature a lot more cocaine that I expect heaven would. :)

I came across a beer like that: http://www.arrogantbastard.com/news/3litre2002/design4/design4.gif

[Mangetout]

Originally posted by Iyyob
Mangetout

Very simple, the Scriptures say we should live by the Laws found in the Scriptures.
The Christian preachers say we don't need too.
Whom should we believe The Scriptures or the Christian preachers?

Iyyob Ahhh, I see it now; you're saying that Christians who say the law is now superseded are putting us at risk of judgment under the law if they are wrong?

I suppose it all depends on the point of view; (warning, vast and possibly unacceptable oversimplification ahead):
From the Jewish perspective, Christians disregard the fullness and importance of the law and are chasing after a false messiah.
From the Christian perspective, Jews are slavishly following laws that do not save and are ignoring the messiah.

Who is right? Depends on who you ask.