Dearest Eve

[Quasimodem]

Let me start by saying that I have followed your threads ever since I joined SDMB, and have always found them humorous and enlightening. Every time I saw a thread with your name I clicked on it, because I knew it would bring a smile to my face and make me wonder about the lady who lives in New York and what she might be like.

I'm not good at pitting people, and I would rather you didn't think of this as such, because I like you, and I consider you an asset to our community.

So let me cut to the chase and tell you what's bothering me: Your "gallows humor" regarding the death of the poor guy in this thread:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=192795&perpage=40&pagenumber=2

and again here:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=194298

Eve, please understand me here, okay? If it isn't your intent to make light of these peoples' deaths, then please clarify, because in addition to me you have other fans on SDMB who seem to be taking what you say as license to post cruel comments.

I have always maintained that I'm not very good at getting my point across, but this is just something I needed to say, and I hope you will accept it in the spirit with which it is intended.

Thank you for reading this, and I willl be happy to peel you a grape anytime!

Quasi

[samarm]

I too was suprised at Eve's comments. I don't know her, but I'm aware she has a good reputation on these boards, and I enjoy reading her threads. Seems out of character. IMO its not really a big deal, but I did think the joking about Katharine Hepburn's death was unnecessary.

[monstro]

The thing about gallows humor is that some people will not appreciate it, while others do. When the story came out about the baby in the washing machine, I showed the article to a coworker and we couldn't help but to giggle over the craziness of the situation. Another coworker scolded us.

I have nothing to contribute to this thread, I just realized.

[Bill H.]

I for one was very amused by Eve's comments. And I also felt sad for the people who passed. I don't see these as mutually exclusive.

[BoBettie]

OK, now I really HAVE seen everything. Frankly, I thought they were both very funny. Out of character? For Eve? Please. I hope she never stops. It isn't as if she is there screaming "ha ha- I'm so glad he/she's dead!" Lighten up.

[Dijon Warlock]

Originally posted by monstro I have nothing to contribute to this thread, I just realized. [/B] On the contrary, you hit the nail on the head, I think. People cope with and react to death in different ways. One person's cup of tea may not be someone else's. That's all.

[fruitbat]

For what it is worth the comments cited above did not come close to offending me. They were in fact funny if you can believe that. As our capacity for finding offense increases our ability to laugh at the human condition seems to evaporate rather quickly.

[LolaCocaCola]

I am definitely in the lighten up fer crying out loud camp!

Katherine Hepburn lived a full, long life - she died at the very ripe old age of 96 and not in some unforseen, tragic way!

Comedy is, after all, tragedy revisited.

None of us in that thread meant her any disrespect.

[Fiver]

I ditto Bill H. and Zette's sentiments.

[Jester]

I dunno, I can pretty much see where Quasi is coming from on the Katharine Hepburn thread.

Oftentimes, the first couple posts or so of a thread will pretty much set the standard for tone during the rest of the thread. So I was, if not offended, certainly fairly confused when I clicked on what I thought would be a thread to share fond memories of Hepburn's work, like most of the other threads dedicated to the deaths of prominent figures have been.

All of a sudden, after reading the first couple posts, I felt like if I was going to post anything in memorium of Ms. Hepburn to the thread, I was obligated to also make a joke about how she might have died. Hence, I didn't post anything. I know that the thread has since moved on from that tone, but it was a bit jarring, and I can see where people would get offended.

[spinky]

Mods, can we have special versions of all the forums for people who are offended easily?

[masonite]

Aw, you're pitting Eve over a bit of gallows humor? And very kind humor at that.... I can just see Kate Hepburn dying in a skiing accident at age 96! It's practically a compliment to her.

Death would be so much more unbearable if we weren't allowed to joke about it at all. Give Eve a pass on this one.

[manhattan]

Wait -- was either of these people a golfer?







And are you sure there's no way I can collect the $200 on my way to jail?

[fruitbat]

I can only hope that when I go everyone will know that it is quite alright to make any kind of joke you want about me.

Mods, can we have special versions of all the forums for people who are offended easily?

And to ntucker that is sig worthy. It would make things a lot easier if the easily offended could just stand up and identify themselves before hand. At least we could know which threads we have to tiptoe through.

[Queen Tonya]

There's nothing wrong with laughing about death, it's life-affirming, or is that sex.. :scratches head:


I wasn't offended in the slightest by any of the comments in the two linked threads. Especially the comments about Ms.Hepburn, they were in the spirit of a bit of fond conjecture on a dearly departed friend, not mean spirited at all. Chill.

[Primaflora]

Oh for fucks sake Quasimodem and Zenster! Humourless gits.

[porcupine]

Considering that she started both of the threads, I really doubt the intent was to make light of the deaths. Eve starts a lot threads in Cafe Society when a movie celeb dies (unless someone sneaks in ahead of her), and if you read her posts for context in the Windshield Death thread, I think it's pretty damn obvious she doesn't find the death itself amusing.

I personally found both comments funny, though, and don't think this merits a pit thread.

[Elza B]

Katherine Hepburn died? When?

(I have nothing to contribute either, other than Eve's always struck me as having an offbeat sense of humor - it's never offended me.)

Ava

[Larry Mudd]

I'm sure Ms. Hepburn would have appreciated Eve's quip -- hardly a "dark" sentiment.

"Taking her work home with her" -- that's dark. Funny as hell, too. Sometimes, you have to laugh.

[Largo62]

Will you easily offended people please lighten up!! I'll bet Kate herself is having a good laugh over some of the remarks (though probably not mine). Eve didn't insult the late, great Kate or her memory. Overall it was a pretty good thread.

[stuyguy]

Hey Quasi, you forgot this story from our recent Green-Wood Cemetery tour:

Cemetery Tourguide: Now all of you have heard of the firm Dun & Bradstreet, right? Well, the man in that there grave is Mr. Bradstreet.

Eve: And now he's done.

As for me, I think Eve is the pisser of all pissers. I love her gallows humor. In fact, when I kick it I want her to MC the festivities and dance on my grave. Dance, girl, dance!!!

[I was hoping this thread was going to be funny, but apparently it's not. Quasi, you're a pooper. Lighten up.]

[rsa]

Gallows humor -- Yes.

Being a jerk -- nope.

No harm, no foul.

[Quasimodem]

I wrote what I wrote with what I thought was respect for Eve. I had a problem and I voiced it. No one called her a jerk. In fact, I do not remember using a derogatory name at all in my OP.

If I didn't expect disagreement or correction with what I write I wouldn't post here at all, because this site is all about fighting ignorance, and I sometimes feel that I am as ignorant as they come.

I stand behind every word I wrote. Especially the fact that I like Eve. That's it.

Quasi

[Ukulele Ike]

Well, I would have been all for giving Eve the benefit of the doubt over her callous joking about Kate Hepburn, if she hadn't been so darn weepy and mournful in those Lester Maddox threads.

[Zebra]

I do feel that Eve steps over a line sometimes. But I would rather read stuff by a person that sometimes offends me then read stuff like the pretty pony party all the time.

[rsa]

Originally posted by Quasimodem
No one called her a jerk. In fact, I do not remember using a derogatory name at all in my OP.

Not at all. And I apolgize if I gave the impression that I suggested that you said any such thing. You did not, and the OP was as gentle as it could be. My reply was just my off-the-cuff remark after a brief perusal of the threads in question.

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

[Q.E.D.]

Originally posted by Primaflora
Oh for fucks sake Quasimodem and Zenster! Humourless gits. I think you mean Jester, seeing as Zenster has not said a word in this thread.

[jayjay]

Like others, I saw the ski accident comment as being in the nature of a compliment. I could certainly see Ms. Hepburn on the slopes at 96. The woman had an iron rod for a spine and the work ethic (carried over into life in general) of a Cotton Mather. Practically the last thing I'd ever have predicted the woman to die of would have been simply old age.

[samarm]

But he did in the Katharine Hepburn thread.

Can I just say that I can finally see the how Eve's jokes are appropriate. I never said anything bad about her, I just chimed in saying that I originally thought it was bad taste. I have had time to reflect and can now see I overreacted slightly. This pit can be scary... please be gentle with me!

[Salem]

Quasi, I don't actually agree with you as I understood that Eve was actually making light of the way the headline was posted (Dies at 96, cause of death unknown...) but at the same time, I have to say that this was one of the cutest (oh, I guess guys would hate that term), well kindest then, pittings that wasn't one of the fake pittings that I've ever read. I've never had the urge to say "awww' in the pit before. (Not that I ever say much of anything in the pit, mind you.) And I mean that sincerely as a compliment.

[Primaflora]

Zenster responded in a singularly humourless way in the original thread. Sorry I should have been clearer when I first posted.

[ageless6]

I cried when I heard about Hepburn, but I admit that the quip about her falling off a guy named Harley made me giggle.

Anyway, I think all of Eve's threads should be boycotted from now on. She's obviously a black-humored force for evil. And this would give me a chance to post to her one-on-one. Maybe I can yet break down her self-imposed law about having no sex. So everyone (else) just ignore her, okay?

She's the Devil transgendered, I tell you. UNCLEAN! Stay away! I'll wrestle with her for all your souls...or some other very good reason.

[Anamorphic]

"Life does not cease to be funny when people die, anymore then it ceases to be serious when people laugh" - George Bernard Shaw

[ageless6]

PS:
Put samarm on the rack. Ignorance of the way you really feel is no excuse on our board. Changing your mind in public is the worst kind of exposing of one's self.

Weakness is strength, and we won't stand,sit still,crouch, or roll over for either one!

[ageless6]

samarm:

Damn, I forgot again. Sometimes (as with Eve et al) people take what I consider to be obvious sarcasm seriously. So...

[Zoe]

One of the first insights that I had into Eve was when she noticed that someone had spelled Katharine Hepburn's name correctly. Not everyone would notice that.

Is it the remark about the skiing accident that was offensive? When I read it, that was the first time I've smiled since finding out that she was gone.

Anyone who has read her autobiography would know that she has always loved humor and pranks. I can't think of a more fitting way to begin a thread about her on the day of her death. And I can't imagine that she wouldn't have been the first to laugh. To me it was clever and appropriate, given who the lady was.

Eve is responsible for what she posts and nothing else. Eve did it with style and some others didn't.

I'm sorry that you were offended, Quasimodem. But Eve's post was helpful to me. It's just a difference in what we see as disrespectful.

[Zoe]

From Katharine Hepburn's autobiography, Me

(Speaking of Spencer Tracey)


What was it about him that fascinated me? Well, that is not a difficult question to answer. He had the most wonderful sense of humor. He was funny. He was Irish to the fingertips. He could laugh and he could create laughter. He had a funny way of looking at things...

[3trew]

Some time back, an editor of the National Lampoon died in a rock climbing accident. One of the staff did a cartoon that was in, objectively, the worst possible taste. They ran it because he would have loved it.

It was a picture of a signpost on the edge of a cliff. The sign said "Doug Kenney Slipped Here".

I suspect Ms. Hepburn was of the same mind.

[Kalhoun]

Eve has a dry sense of humor. Big newsflash, huh? I don't think she was being disrespectful to Kate; her comment was a slam at the writer (cause of death unknown -- riiiiight).

It's pretty obvious Katharine has had her foot on the "Big Banana Peel of Life" for some time now. Her death isn't sad, per se. She'll be remembered fondly. But jeez, she qualified for Geezerdom a loooong time ago. We all knew it was coming. She herself said she had a wonderful, lucky life. And now she's gone. Such is life.

[Ethilrist]

I just hope that when I die, there's something about it that's funny that people can use to lift their spirits.

[Zebra]

I don't thing Eve is trying to make light of these people's deaths. She is making light of DEATH ITSELF.


Who organizes the graveyard tours?

Eve


Who is the first to post when someone dies?

Eve

Even if that person is some movie 'star' from 80 years ago and she is the only person who has ever heard of them.

Eve is on a first name basis with Death. (I believe she calls him Danny) I hope when I die Eve tells the board about it.

[istara]

Isn't Eve a published expert on classic Hollywood matters?

Ditto zebra's post. Eve is the last person to deliberately slur a great screen legend. If she is making fun of death itself, so be it. Katherine Hepburn was an amazing, strong and forthright woman and I'm sure she'd be the first to laugh at her own gallows humour.

[Knowed Out]

Just because somebody dies doesn't mean they're exempted from criticism or horseplay.

This is the same woman who said "Afraid of death? Not at all. Be a great relief. Then I wouldn't have to talk to you."

As for the dumb bitch who drove with the homeless guy's corpse on her windshield, how can anybody NOT make jokes about that? Nobody could purposely try to do the most stupid thing ever done and come up with that.

Think you can increase the thickness of your skin by a few microns, Quasi?

[Lute Skywatcher]

Quasi? Jester? If anyone ever invites you to a New Orleans-style funeral, y'all might want to decline.

[moriah]

Oh, c'mon. You'd have to expect gallows humor (and devilishly clever humor at that) coming from Broadway's Le grande dame (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=290990#post290990).

The spirit of Dorothy Parker lives!

[Kn*ckers]

To have a sense of humor about life and yet not have one about death is hypocritical.

To my mind, it is not insensitive or cruel or otherwise inappropriate to make comments such as those in the linked threads. On the contrary; those in the Hepburn thread were singularly appropriate given the particular personality of the subject, and I applaud Eve and those who followed her lead as honest, insightful people, and good examples to us all.

Sometimes, a good joke is the most respectful tribute we can pay the dead. I can only hope to be so honored when I die.

[Jester]

Well, I guess I'm a humorless git, but I don't really see why. I didn't say that I was outraged, or call for Eve's head on a platter. I didn't even completely say that I was offended; I was mainly just a bit surprised that the thread had started off with a tone that was much different than I was expecting, and I could see where Quasi was coming from.

Usually I'm all for gallows humor, and this is the first time that I can ever recall having an adverse reaction, no matter how minor, to one of Eve's posts. I generally will open a thread simply because it has her name on it, knowing that I'm in for a good time. I guess that, for whatever reason, and maybe it was just the mood I was in, this particular one rubbed me the wrong way a tad. Obviously those who feel that way are in the minority, but hey, it was my first impression of the thread, and I posted as such.

[Miller]

Two things:

If there is anything certain in this world, it is that everything that has ever lived will one day die. Every creature that has ever swum, crawled, walked, flew, oozed, or crept over the surface of this Earth is going to die. It is the single most egalitarian subject in the world. If we can't joke about death there is, quite literally, nothing at all we can joke about.

With that in mind:

There is nothing at all tragic or sad about a ninety-six year old dying. She beat the average by a good fifteen years or more. That's not tragic, that's fucking amazing. Dying young is a tragedy. Dying old is a triumph.

[Otto]

Originally posted by Zebra
Who organizes the graveyard tours?

[B]Eve


Who is the first to post when someone dies?

Eve And who coaxes the blues right out of the horn?

[xcheopis]

Who controls the British crown?

[masonite]

Who holds back the electric car? Who made Steve Gutenburg a star?

[neofishboy]

Originally posted by Otto
And who coaxes the blues right out of the horn?
SHAFT!


Sorry.....reflex.

[Early Out]

This just in: Generalissimo Francisco Franco is Still Dead!!!

[NothingMan]

Just when you think it couldn't get any colder in the PIT. . . theres this love letter of a "rant".

Damn it man wheres the cussing ? The insults ? The bile being tossed around like slimy frisbees ?

Its a sad day. Sad, I tell you.

[Shirley Ujest]

Y'know, she has an uncanny ability to be the first to announce when somebody dies.

It's kinda creepy.

Omigosh!

Maybe...Eve is the Grim Reaper for Hollywood.

[moriah]

Eve, who do you have in the Dead Pool? What's your 2004 picks?

(cf. Here (http://www.stiffs.com/) {make sure your status bar is active} & Here (http://www.youbettheirlife.com/).)

Peace
----------------
This just in: Members of the SMDB arresting for insider graving.

[Slip Mahoney]

Good for Eve for refusing to respond to this stupid "pit" thread.

[TheLoadedDog]

Yes, I guess this thread must indeed be dissapointing to some of the regular pitizens. Quasimodem voiced an opinion which he guessed would be unpopular. He did it politely, and with respect for the subject of the thread. Sorry guys, no trainwreck, eh? Maybe if you're lucky, there'll be a car accident outside your place this afternoon. You'll be able to gawk at that instead.

If being a humourless git includes not thinking "felchwad" is funny, then count me in as just such a git. Quasimodem remains a poster I hold in the highest of esteem. An utter gentleman.

[Ice Wolf]

Seconding TheLoadedDog's comments, there. Quasimodem was stating his opinion as to what he thought of two instances of humour he personally found questionable. Now me, I have a fairly gothic sense of humour, so stuff like that washed over me and left no trace.

But calling people "humourless gits" is pretty stupid, just because your opinion and sense of humour differs. A fairly pointless statement, really.

Quasi, keep the faith, man. I know you're doing a lot of positive thinking about how this board could be nicer and kinder to folk. Good on you. :)

(Oh, yeah. I like Eve's posts very much. Hard to come across such dry humour these days. She's a gem.)

[Zoe]

Otto:
And who coaxes the blues right out of the horn?

Laaammmme...

[Primaflora]

Nah, calling people who are being po-faced and humourless gits isn't pointless. Up there on the high moral ground you like to occupy, it might seem pointless but I felt it had a point. Eve was being held to the standard of humour which Quasimodem and Zenster felt was appropriate. Those standards differ.

But so nice of you and TLD to drop in and critique my posts ;)

[TheLoadedDog]

Aah ok. And here was I thinking you were considering the humourlessness an industrial issue. Good to see you're willing to share.

[Ice Wolf]

Originally posted by Primaflora
Nah, calling people who are being po-faced and humourless gits isn't pointless. Up there on the high moral ground you like to occupy, it might seem pointless but I felt it had a point. Eve was being held to the standard of humour which Quasimodem and Zenster felt was appropriate. Those standards differ.

But so nice of you and TLD to drop in and critique my posts ;)

Your point is, I take it, that your sense of humour is different from theirs? Thanks for sharing that, Primaflora. Because "standards" differ, those you don't agree with are "gits"?

Interesting.

[Primaflora]

No, but those who attempt to control the expression of humour fall in my category of gits. YMMV. There's humour here which I don't find funny or I don't find to be in the best of taste but I'd classify myself as a humourless git within that context if I started a pit thread to tell the person how tasteless they were.

If you're feeling particularly persnickety you can probably do a search on my name and find posts where I've expressed my inner humourless git so I'll save the hamsters and say that in advance.

Industrial issue? TLD, I'm not following what you mean. Do I want to?

[TheLoadedDog]

Aah, my apologies. I was employing humour. Was having a friendly dig atcha, cobber, along the lines of somebody else's being humourless is encroaching on your territory, which was why you seemed upset.

It's a larf, innit?

[Ice Wolf]

Orig. by Primaflora
...those who attempt to control the expression of humour ...


Um ... how so? Someone who comes up and says they, personally, find an expression or sentence or paragraph jarring and in their own opinion in bad taste, and suddenly they're attempting to control the expression of humour?

Aren't you attempting to control their expression of opinion by calling them "humourless gits"?

[Primaflora]

Goodness me, TLD. Humour was it now? A friendly dig at me?

Friendly? Were you labouring under the misapprehension that I would automatically think you were being friendly to me? I'm willing to acknowledge that you and IceWolf are having digs at me but let's not pretend it's in a friendly fashion.

[kambuckta]

Who's up for a beer you lot? My shout, provided you shut up the bitchin', OK?



:rolleyes:

[jayjay]

Goodness...it's All-In Australia/New Zealand League Professional Wrestling!

Well, it would be an interesting sport... :p

[TheLoadedDog]

Well, actually Primaflora, my first post was directed at everybody who had participated in the pile on against Quasimodem. I chose to quote a term you had posted, rather than somebody else's, because it best summed up the position I wished to oppose. If I had wished to simply have a go at you for personal, non-SDMB reasons, I have other avenues available, and I would have done so before. In fact, being aware you might have viewed my taking an adversarial view in a Pit thread as a personal attack, I chose not to quote you directly. Not because you're my favourite poster, but because you deserve that courtesy anyway. You'll also see by my use of plural terms, my reply was directed at more than one person. In fact, if anybody would have reason to guess I was singling them out, it'd probably be Slip Mahoney, not you.

Well, I tried humour. I tried sarcasm. Both of those things seem to have whooshed you utterly. I will now keep this simple, and I will also no longer do you the courtesy of treating this thread at face value. You obviously are taking a broader view, judging by your uses of phrases like "the high moral ground you like to occupy", so I am no doubt free to do the same.

You're right about the "friendly dig". I'll explain it very slowly for you. I. Don't. Like. You. It. Was. Sarcasm.

Primaflora, you have always struck me as a singularly bitter, morose, and sad individual. Your posts are characterised by their humourlessness to the point where you could bloody well trademark it. You are incredibly judgemental, and your overbearing air of superiority (esp. in any thread remotely to do with children) makes me want to puke.

Pillock.

Feel free to have the last word if you like. I won't be replying. I'm off to have kambuckta's beer.

[Primaflora]

Well ::shrug:: it's mutual, mate. You've pretty much struck me as a pillock incapable of directly dealing with people when there's an issue which could have been solved clearly by direct communication for a long time now. But I guess you've managed it now. Things are very clear.

Cheers.

[TheLoadedDog]

Sorry, I just have to reply to add that I'm surprised you of all people can say that with a straight face. You are utterly shameless.

[Primaflora]

So I'm guessing my triumphant return to the bosom of G'dope is out of the question now and in the future?

I'll live, I'm sure.

[TheLoadedDog]

That's a cheap shot and doesn't belong on the SDMB. You are free to post on G'Dope as long as you don't break the G'Dope rules (again). The fact that you probably will choose not to is something I'm quite comfortable with though.

[Miller]

Originally posted by TheLoadedDog
Yes, I guess this thread must indeed be dissapointing to some of the regular pitizens. Quasimodem voiced an opinion which he guessed would be unpopular. He did it politely, and with respect for the subject of the thread. Sorry guys, no trainwreck, eh? Maybe if you're lucky, there'll be a car accident outside your place this afternoon. You'll be able to gawk at that instead.


I love the irony of this statement juxtaposed with TheLoadedDog's later posts in this thread.

[TheLoadedDog]

Well mate, not being a Pit regular, I may be a bit rusty on the etiquette in here, but it wasn't me who got personal or brought in off-board stuff in the first place. I tried to defend myself gently at first, but as the barbs kept getting fired at the same steady rate, I was compelled to crank up the defence a bit.

My own fault: every now and then I seem to forget why I don't come to The Pit.

[Ice Wolf]

Originally posted by Miller
I love the irony of this statement juxtaposed with TheLoadedDog's later posts in this thread.

Come on, Miller. At that point, TLD was in a peacemaker role, while emphasising regard for both of the real sides to this thread in the first place -- the comments made by Eve in other places, and the opinion of Quasimodem. He kept stuff as objective as possible, while the author of the phrase he quoted just got more miffed.

Yes, I used the word "stupid", in respect of a judgemental attitude which I felt was out of place and as jarring to some as the statements criticised.

And then, other crap was dragged in. If you want to class anything from TLD's posts as "ironic", then also look further afield here. Start from Primaflora's first post in this thread, and work your way down.

[Arnold Winkelried]

Isn't it possible for SDMB posters to discuss a subject without dragging in all the emotional baggage from other threads? Let's try and keep off-topic personal tiffs out of non-related discussions, OK?

[SkipMagic]

Originally posted by Zoe
Laaammmme...

You're damned tootin'!

Or he is, at any rate. ;)

[erislover]

Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried
Isn't it possible for SDMB posters to discuss a subject without dragging in all the emotional baggage from other threads?That's precious. :p