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Iago
03-12-2000, 05:36 PM
I'm usually pretty good with these things, but I'm baffled by the end of this movie. Spoiler to follow.
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Okay, I pretty much had it up until the end. So who was the girl, his "guardian angel"? An emissary of the devil or something? Was she the devil? I wish my first post could be something less mundane, but here we are. Anyone with any insight, I anticipate your response.

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I done run for president.
Didn't win, though.

AuntiePam
03-12-2000, 07:16 PM
I have no clue. Haven't seen the movie. Probably won't.

But I hate to see someone's very first post go unanswered.

We'll bump this back up and see if any of the folks who've watched the movie have an answer for you. The movie's been mentioned on a couple of threads. So far, it seems those who saw it are as puzzled as you, or just plain disgusted.

Iago
03-12-2000, 11:49 PM
Thanks, AuntiePam. I was feeling left out there for a minute.

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I done run for president.
Didn't win, though.

Tymp
03-13-2000, 10:16 AM
Iago,

You will not go unanswered!

I saw 9th last night and, like you, lost the purpose of the girl. Sadly, I am not fully convinced that the movie deserves thorough analysis. Since you have asked, I will venture these guesses.

Option A: She is the devil. She was with him always, comforting him in his less than honorable pursuits. She was whatever he wanted, provided that he pursued evil. (ďIf you say so . . .Ē)

Option B: She is the hellhound, Cerberus. I donít have much to back up this theory. I just got the feeling that we were supposed to think of her as some kind or guardian. The only specific things that come to mind along these lines would be the engraving of her character in the book and the beastly contortion of her face and flesh during the apocalyptic sex scene (all movies should have one). If you recall, the engraving carried an image of her seated upon a three headed dragon-thingy. For me, thatís close enough to suggest the three headed hellhound.

Then again, I could be insane.

Iago
03-13-2000, 02:40 PM
Arnold, that is what I was looking for. All Hail MPSIMS!

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I done run for president.
Didn't win, though.

Avumede
03-13-2000, 03:50 PM
SPOILERS ALERT!

I thought this movie was incredible. The ending was very thought-provoking, and definately one of the more eerier endings I've ever seen. What does it mean? He summoned Lucifer himself, whom (I think) you can see in the window of the castle in the last scene.

About the woman, I'm still not sure about that. A succumbus, perhaps?

But here is what I was thinking about... we already know at least three of the drawings of the book have direct relevance to the main character's quest. (The "Death from Above", the hanging man, one and the final one). I wonder, do all of them? Do the drawings in fact depict the plot of the movie, in a symbolic way?

I think there is much more to this movie than meets the eye.

AuntiePam
03-13-2000, 08:48 PM
So Arnold -- would you recommend this book?

It's been talked about on a one-list (SciFi, I think) and people were raving about the author.

AzRaek
03-14-2000, 12:09 AM
Was I the only one who saw that hanging guy picture and immediately thought of tarot cards? Most of the engravings had Rider-Waite symbols.
I knew she was the devil. Blondes are trouble, I told my SO as we left the theater, and this film proves it. Plus, the socks! What's the deal there?
I kinda wanted Johnny Depp to turn out to be the devil. He had the vandyke beard and everything.

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I mis-wasted my youth.

Ophanim
03-14-2000, 01:48 AM
Here's a thought... it's just a DUMB ASS movie!!! By the way, why was the "Kingdom of Shadows" so DAMN bright?

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MY FISH IN NO WAY RESEMBLE A VAGINA!

Kisses!
Ophy

Arnold Winkelried
03-14-2000, 01:52 AM
I haven't seen the movie, but I've read the book upon which it was based (The Club Dumas, by Arturio Perez.) In the book, the young girl is Lucifer. She is often shown as surrounded by light (Lucifer = bearer of light.)

Arnold Winkelried
03-14-2000, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by AuntiePam:
So Arnold -- would you recommend this book?

It's been talked about on a one-list (SciFi, I think) and people were raving about the author.I thoroughly enjoyed the book. It was one of my favourite readings from last year. If you like Umberto Eco's novels, you'll like this novel. In "The Club Dumas", the "satanic" plot is only half of the story. There is also a mystery surrounding an original hand-written chapter of "Les Trois Mousquetaires."

Ophanim
03-14-2000, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by Avumede:
I thought this movie was incredible.


I think there is much more to this movie than meets the eye.

Ok, no, it was a stupid movie... Lucifers signiature was LCF for Gods sake!

Im sure there is more to this movie, its missing an ending, thats gotta be somewhere. And Im sure the plot is somewhere in there too.



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Where's my side of FUN!?

Kisses!
Ophy

Sigmundex
03-14-2000, 10:35 PM
Well, I guess I have to see the movie, if for no other reason than not being able to avoid looking at a car wreck out the window when you go by. I just finished reading El Club Dumas, and thought it was a really good book. Very coincidentally I'd just finished reading The Three Musketeers before picking up El Club, the Club Dumas plot has a lot to do with the Musketeers novel. As for me, I imagined Anglina Jolie in the role of the girl, but then again I'd like to see her in ANY movie, any time. :-)

Avumede
03-15-2000, 04:09 PM
Ok, no, it was a stupid movie... Lucifers signiature was LCF for Gods sake!

Im sure there is more to this movie, its missing an ending, thats gotta be somewhere. And Im sure the plot is somewhere in there too.


Well there is a certain amount of intentional cheese in the movie. For example, the recurring number "666", even as the millionaires password! The movie does have
some jokes like that. Like at the end, the
wild eyed "look! I'm sticking my hand in the fire, and yet I feel nothing! " part. C'mon, this is not an entirely serious movie.

And you want a plot? Just watch the movie, it's quite simple and linear. A leads to B leads to C. What movie did you see?

As far as the ending, if it had been all wrapped up in an explainable little ball, it would have lost it's magic. Do complain that 2001 has no ending?

lvick
03-16-2000, 01:18 AM
The girl was played by Roman Polanski's wife. I guess the way her eyes kinda lit up could be interpreted as supporting the theory that she was Lucifer, although it seemed a fairly straightfoward job, guarding a mortal, for the big D to get up for.

MagicalSilverKey
05-07-2000, 10:09 PM
I am aware this is an older thread, but I had to comment on this film. I just watched it Friday night. If you haven't seen the movie, TURN BACK NOW! Spoilers ahead! This is intended ONLY for those who have seen the film!

I agree with the idea that the film has many deeper and hidden meanings. And as for the ending... hmmm. Here is my interpretation of the film. I have not read the book.

The blonde woman, the Ninth Gate, and the ending - what they mean:
(A) The woman is an angel, but she is a "fallen angel," or demon if you prefer. This explains her ability to float and her bizarre shape shifting at the end.

(B) I do not believe that, in the film, she is the devil. If you look at the final engraving closely, you will see that the woman is riding naked upon the back of a beast with seven heads, reading from the book, and opening the doorway to the Kingdom of Shadows. I find this to be prophetic of Revelation. The woman is a servant of Satan, sent to protect and seduce Depp. Why? There can only be one reason. The Devil must "need" something from Depp; he is valuable, the chosen one. Note: This is why the woman kicks the "albino" guys ass. He is expendable, of no use to Satan or his plan.

What is it Satan needs from Depp, you ask? His seed and the engravings. He is to impregnate the woman with the child who will become the antichrist. Note: In the book of Revelation, the Antichrist arises from Europe, which is where the majority of the film takes place. However, Depp & the woman can not, channel the power to spawn the child of Satan, until he has solved the puzzle of the engravings. The Ninth Gate is Depp, himself. Depp has already silently solved the puzzle in his mind when Balkan's plan fails & he becomes toast. Depp shoots him, and takes the engravings. He and the blonde have sex just afterwards. The prophecy becomes fulfilled.

The woman is the "key" to opening the doorway to the Kingdom of Shadows. The engraving supports this theory because it depicts her opening the doorway, not Depp. This is why she gives him the final authentic engraving. Note: Another interesting fact is one of the LCF engravings shows a bearded man holding two keys, approaching a doorway. Depp has a beard, has the woman (one key), and has all the engravings in the end (second key.) Coincidence? I think not.

(C) What we see in the very final scene of the film, is NOT the Ninth Gate. The bright light represents Lucifer, the angel of light. Depp has fulfilled his purpose on Earth and is allowed to enter "the Kingdom of Shadows," or Hell. Where he will be removed from "the danger from above."
Note: God, not Satan, is trying to kill Depp. The "danger from above" engraving has great symbolism in the film: the falling scaffold, "albino" guy at the top of the stairs by the river, the burning library on the second floor of a building, Depp falling thru the floor, with Balkan standing above him as the floor burns. Another interesting note: One of the engravings depicts two men playing chess. The two men in the picture may represent Satan and God, and all of the film's characters are the pawns of their game.

I think this is a brilliant, intellectual film, one that when viewed again, reveals something you did not catch the previous time. The small slices of "cheesiness" we are fed through the film only add to it's charm, another symbolic gem. We, the audience, are but mice being led through a maze of complex puzzles and subtle clues, just as the characters are. The elusive ending is deliberate, to cause us to think, to solve the puzzles. If we solve the "maze", we get our slice of cheese, but not at the end of the movie. The true denouement of the film comes after we leave the theater. I applaud Mr. Polanski. This is a work of art, even if it is not perfect.

This film review was written by,
Alan A. Minne a.k.a. MagicalSilverKey

Nacho4Sara
05-07-2000, 11:50 PM
My interpretation of the movie (not quite as advanced as Mag's) was that the woman was the devil, and she is trying to "convert" Depp because Satam needs him. Proof? The last card had her "riding" a serpent. Then she "rides" Depp in the sex scene. So she is working with the devil and Depp must be brought to Satan's side.

Im 19, so I automatically assume it relates to sex. Sorry :)

shadowcrown
03-24-2013, 08:11 AM
I joined this site just to put my two cents in on this topic.

There was a time that I thought the girl may have been the devil. As mentioned earlier the girl The girl does ride dragon with seven heads. The dragon is beast that appears first in Revelation 13. It is the master of the two beasts. This I always felt symbolized that she herself was the devil for reasons that she rode upon the dragon like a cowboy on a horse. The cowboy is the master of the horse and so likewise the girl is the master of the dragon controlling it as she sees fit.

I suppose it does make some sense to think of her as a servant or a choice "Student" of the devil as she refers to herself as a student. If she is a servant of the devil she would be among the highest ranking demons of the devil as she is allowed to sit on the dragon that represents the devil.

I always felt that Johnny Depp's character Dean Corso was chosen. All the other owners of the books seemed to have a wealthy greedy obedience to the cause with the hope and faith that they would one day be rewarded. Although Dean Corso was slightly greedy he had a decent gentleman's quality about him. I always felt that the ending with the doors opening as he approached was symbolic of being fully welcomed into the ninth gate. He would be the one to receive equality.

Edward The Head
03-24-2013, 08:55 AM
Wow, a zombie devil, I think that's a first. Reported for forum change.

Cicero
03-24-2013, 08:58 AM
Zombie? It's only 13 years old!

twickster
03-24-2013, 09:28 AM
Old enough to date back to before there was a Cafe Society. Since there is one now, though, I'll move it thither (from MPSIMS).

Tangent
03-24-2013, 09:42 AM
Resurrections are on the rise (pun intended). Must be spring break.

Broomstick
03-24-2013, 08:44 PM
I would have attributed it to Easter, but whatever.

Ferret Herder
03-25-2013, 07:13 AM
Since - now that it's in Cafe Society - resurrections are OK, then I'll throw in my 2 cents. I read the book that the film is based on, The Club Dumas, and in that book, (mildly spoilery) the Girl was a fallen angel who'd rebelled (it says above she was Lucifer, but I don't recall if she was - I thought she was just depicted that way because of once-angelic light, and thought I recalled she said she rebelled with him) and had wandered alone ever since. She had become deeply lonely, then fell in love with Corso during the course of the book.

The only plot to summon the Devil was by the book collector who'd hired Corso, Corso didn't enter Hell, and the movie omits (for understandable timing reasons) the plot about writings by Dumas.

The book is just vastly superior, plus I think fans of literature-related mysteries and suspense books will like it. It's kind of like Dan Brown done well, with smaller-scoped conspiracy.

yy82
05-09-2013, 09:35 PM
The movie is quite simple, really. Lucifer, in the movie, is a woman! LCF has fallen in love with Corso. This is why Corso is the chosen one. At the end, they consummate their love in the flesh. Because of this, LCF lets him enter her kingdom to reign with her.
Watch how LCF kisses him; her kisses say it all. Watch how LCF is hurt when Corso accuses her of doing things against him. She is so in love! Because LCF loves him, she protects him.
LCF is quite passionate, as many women are, particularly when in love.
LCF as a woman simply made the movie more interesting; it gave it a twist!
Corso was authentic in his pursuit for the gate. He didn't hope to gain anything except the solution to the riddle, unlike the others who wanted godhood. He was authentic.

the_diego
05-09-2013, 10:21 PM
I interpret the story as simply the-throne-goes-to-the-one-who-didn't-ask-for-it. God, how many stories like that have you read?

Knight Racer
08-12-2013, 05:30 PM
Hello,first time posting.I had watched this movie on cable 4 or 5 times this week alone.Seen the movie many years ago and it was very interesting to say the least.I was always curious about the girl and finally googled it to come to this page.I liked MagicalSilverKey answer to this question the most.My own theory was that picture of the hoar of babylon on the serpent/dragon of 6 or so heads.It triggered the memories I had of the omen movies.Lucifers child raised in Rome etc.Its said somewhere along the lines that the whore dies I think,betrayal not sure by Lucifer.Maybe she came to Earth to stop the prohpecy,switched the final picture with a counterfeit but along the way she fell in love with Curso.So she gives him what he's after.Giving him the picture was the only way she coul have made sure he could find be with her forever in her world.

Bryan Ekers
08-12-2013, 05:39 PM
Nacho4Sara is now 32. When he turns 33... the prophecy will be fulfilled!

DustinO33
10-31-2016, 07:19 AM
Looks as though Magical Silver Key said it best.. I read many forums about this movie, the ending in particular.. There were a few posts here that explained it better than many reviews from those who claim they knew the real meaning.. With that being said...

Sara is a girls name Bryan Ekers..

When he turns 33?

At least you did the math right? Oh, wait .. :smack::smack::smack:

Stay cool out there!

#reeclectObama2016 .. Srsly, ik trump won't win but Hillary isn't a lot better than him. Okay, later guys! Glad the initial question was answered as that was a tough ending to comprehend! What a great movie! And now I must read the book! Ramble over!!

Foggy
10-31-2016, 07:57 AM
A confused 16yo zombie.

IvoryTowerDenizen
10-31-2016, 08:05 AM
DustinO33 As you're new to the boards I wanted to let you know that political commentary is out of place in this forum and unrelated to the topic of this thread.

Checkout the Elections forum for political discussions instead.

Thanks.

Since this is a 16 year old zombie thread, so I think I'll lock it. Feel free to start a new thread on the subject.

Looks as though Magical Silver Key said it best.. I read many forums about this movie, the ending in particular.. There were a few posts here that explained it better than many reviews from those who claim they knew the real meaning.. With that being said...

Sara is a girls name Bryan Ekers..

When he turns 33?

At least you did the math right? Oh, wait .. :smack::smack::smack:

Stay cool out there!

#reeclectObama2016 .. Srsly, ik trump won't win but Hillary isn't a lot better than him. Okay, later guys! Glad the initial question was answered as that was a tough ending to comprehend! What a great movie! And now I must read the book! Ramble over!!