Jessica Lynch a hero?

[furnishesq]

I give Jessica Lynch (the rescued American POW) a lot of credit for joining the miltary and going off to war. I am sure her experience in Iraq was horrifying.

But is she a HERO? Does she deserve this mythic praise she is receiving?

What exactly did she do to qualify as a hero? (I equate serving in the military as HONORABLE)

What about the men and women who have seen real hand to hand combat over there and will not receive the same recognition.

Is this fair to them? -- I think not.

I would contend Jessica Lynch is getting too much attention and too much praise for what she actually did.

Your thoughts?

[Airblairxxx]

I'm with you--I salute her for serving in the Armed Forces; I despise the knuckleheads and crooks who put her and 200,000 other servicemen and -women in Iraq under dubious pretenses; and I think that whomever is seeking to lionize her for what she did is doing so for purposes other than to honor her conduct while in Iraq.

[MrTuffPaws]

I think the reason she is a hero, is that she happened to forget everything about the incident. A true hero in the eyes of the propaganda machine.

[rjung]

I don';t have a problem with the folks in Jessica's hometown calling her a hero and celebrating her return.

I am slightly disturbed, however, by her well-wishers who cites her rescue and return as an act of God. What about the various Iraqis and Americans who put their lives on the line to get her back?

[Bryan Ekers]

I'm more inclined to treat the guys who rescued her as heroic, though later reports are leaning toward the idea that the rescue wasn't really all that dangerous.

[Chefguy]

Coincidentally, I started this same thread, which is over in IMHO.

[msmith537]

IMHO, the story, while interesting, has been blown out of proportion and done to death. Yes, it is a heartwarming story, just like the Scott OGrady story was a few years back (the guy who crashed in Bosnia and lived on bugs for a week). It is a story perhaps more suitable to a Lifetime movie of the week than a Jerry Bruckheimer/Michael Bay Explodofest staring Kate Beckinsale and Josh Hartnet (with Michale Biehn as General Franks).

I think that we are a wussier people then we were a few years back. Our "heros" are no longer the Segent Yorks or Audie Murphys. We no longer value the rugged, tough Marine who wades ashore under heavy fire and punches a Nazi in the face.

[Aldebaran]

It is known that she didn't do anything else but being in an accident, got captured and got treated very well in an Iraqy hospital. I find the story of her sudden "amnesia" which prevents her from recalling that very touching.


I have a few questions related to this:

How come Americans are in such a great need to create heros all the time?
Why has the US population such an asthonishing admiration for this whole military business and for those who wear that military uniform by their own choice?

Those people go in the army voluntarely and they know - since the USA always has to have some wars as long as they aren't fought on their own territory - that they risk to be in combat situations sooner or later.

Yet they are already made into heros because they make a living by learning how to kill... And when they then actually go somewhere to do the killing, they become saints.

I think you must be American to get this.
I certainly don't get it, but then that is for me the same with every exaggerated US patriotism. (I'm not alone in this... The vast majority of the non-US world certainly looks at it with a partially amused amazement)


Salaam. A.

[Palo Verde]

Unlucky... yes. Fortunate... yes. Heroic... nah.

[Quack]

I agree with you all, but I think the publicity will fade away pretty quickly. I mean, how often do you hear about ex-POWs from Korea or Vietnam or the first Gulf War?

[MLS]

Originally posted by MrTuffPaws
I think the reason she is a hero, is that she happened to forget everything about the incident. A true hero in the eyes of the propaganda machine. You are obviously uninformed and inexperienced with traumatic stress syndrome. My father was involved in a near-fatal auto accident many years ago. He never, for the 60 years between that event and his death, regained the memory of the days immediately *preceding* that accident. Non-physical trauma can cause memory loss, too. I myself remember absolutely nothing about the months following my mother's death. Nothing at all; it's like that period of time never happened. A psychologist told me that it's not uncommon for the brain to simply cease recording, in a sense, while everything perceived is just too painful to deal with.

To Al Debaran: How does the fact that a person volunteered to knowingly put himself in mortal danger for the benefit of others make him less brave than if he were a conscript? Some of us admire people who will do that, and respect the sacrifices they and their families make. Many consider firefighters, who volunteer to put their lives on the line to save the lives and property of others, to be heroes.

I also am puzzled by your implication that Americans are alone in needing and wanting heroes. My impression is that most if not all cultures and nationalities do so. I'm trying to think of one that does not honor military and others who perform brave and memorable deeds, and I am coming up empty. Among European heroes we have Churchill and DeGaulle among the first who come to mind. I'm not knowledgeable enough about Asian history to know who is a hero in China and Japan, but I am sure they exist. Was Ho Chi Min a hero to the Vietnamese? I imagine the kamikaze pilots were heroes to the Japanese. Russians honor the heroes who defended Moscow and Leningrad. Certainly the Red Baron was a hero to the Germans of WWII.

I suppose if you look among true pacifists such as the Society of Friends you will not find military heroes, but such examples would be quite rare. Even among pacifists, perhaps they consider those who perform brave but non-violent acts to be heroes. Perhaps you can enlighten me with an example of a nation that does not honor those it considers heroic.

[Netbrian]

I'm still mildly unclear on why she, and not the other prisoners of war, is regarded as a hero, and they are an afterthought.

[MLS]

Personally, I think they are all heroes. Jessica is a symbol.

[msmith537]

Originally posted by Aldebaran
It is known that she didn't do anything else but being in an accident, got captured and got treated very well in an Iraqy hospital. I find the story of her sudden "amnesia" which prevents her from recalling that very touching.


It's a lot more than you or I did.



Originally posted by Aldebaran
Why has the US population such an asthonishing admiration for this whole military business and for those who wear that military uniform by their own choice?


There are a number of reasons:
-One of them is because the people in our military are there by their own choosing. They are not a bunch of rabble pressed into service
-The are are able to achieve a level of discipline and physical training that most people can't comprehend.
-They believe in something greater than themselves and are willing to risk their lives defending it
-They kick ass

I mean who should we choose as our heros? Some millionare who was gifted with the ability to toss, catch or kick a ball? Some cynical, opinionated dirtbag with a home made sign who has taken up the cause of the week? A school teacher who would rather pass an illiterate kid than deal with him in summer school?

I mean lets face it. Most people are fat stupid pussies who lead dull uninteresting lives. My admin freakin complains every day about everything. Half the people I know have their day ruined if they get stuck in a subway for 5 minutes. We live in a world where if you bitch and complain long enough, someone will make your big bad problem go away. These people jump out of airplanes and live in a world where their buddies might get blown up tomorrow for delivering auto supplies to the wrong map coordinates.





Originally posted by Aldebaran
Yet they are already made into heros because they make a living by learning how to kill... And when they then actually go somewhere to do the killing, they become saints.


I don't know which part of that statement to correct first.

Out of curiousity, is there anything you would be willing to kill for?


Originally posted by Aldebaran
I think you must be American to get this.


You know, the Japanese used to consider being captured by the enemy one of the worse disgraces.


Personally, I don't think she is being treated as a war hero. I think the media can't decide if they want to treat her like little girl who fell down a well and was rescued or a female Bradock: Missing in Action Part V.

[Ruby]

I just posted this in Chefguy's thread in IMHO, but it bears repeating here.

According to the military,

http://books.usapa.belvoir.army.mil/cgi-bin/bookmgr/BOOKS/r600_8_22/3.13

3.13 Bronze Star Medal

a. The Bronze Star Medal was established by Executive Order 9419, 4 February 1944 (superseded by Executive Order 11046, 24 August 1962).

b. The Bronze Star Medal is awarded to any person who, while serving in any capacity in or with the Army of the United States after 6 December 1941, distinguished himself or herself by heroic or meritorious achievement or service, not involving participation in aerial flight, in connection with military operations against an armed enemy; or while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.

c. Awards may be made for acts of heroism, performed under circumstances described above, which are of lesser degree than required for the award of the Silver Star.

d. The Bronze Star Medal may be awarded for meritorious achievement or meritorious service according to the following:

(1) Awards may be made to recognize single acts of merit or meritorious service. The lesser degree than that required for the award of the Legion of Merit must nevertheless have been meritorious and accomplished with distinction.
…


As much as we can appreciate her service to our country, clearly she does not fall in the category of "hero".

[BillyGnos]

Survival is not heroic. Hero is a word that in my opinion should only be bestowed upon those who knowingly risk their lives for the sake of the greater good. Jessica Lynch simply survived a war zone.

[Andy]

Originally posted by Netbrian
I'm still mildly unclear on why she, and not the other prisoners of war, is regarded as a hero, and they are an afterthought.

Her 'rescue' was caught on film
She's good looking

[kambuckta]

Jessica was a POW, who was 'rescued' whilst being given medical treatment for her injuries in an Iraqi hospital.

Hero?

No.

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally posted by msmith537
I think that we are a wussier people then we were a few years back. Our "heros" are no longer the Segent Yorks or Audie Murphys. We no longer value the rugged, tough Marine who wades ashore under heavy fire and punches a Nazi in the face.

I dunno, I bet a lot of people gained new admiration for Buzz Aldrin after that Sibrel incident.

Granted, Aldrin is Air Force, not Marines, and Sibrel is just a putz, but still....

[antechinus]

Originally posted by MrTuffPaws
I think the reason she is a hero, is that she happened to forget everything about the incident. A true hero in the eyes of the propaganda machine.

She did not forget everything, as we now know from her recent appearence in front of the press, she said she remembered saying "I'm an American soldier, too".

[msmith537]

Originally posted by BillyGnos
Survival is not heroic. Hero is a word that in my opinion should only be bestowed upon those who knowingly risk their lives for the sake of the greater good. Jessica Lynch simply survived a war zone. [/B]

Aren't you kind of contradicting yourself here? I think I understand what you are saying - why is she any more or less a hero than any other soldier who came under fire?

The answer - she's "camera friendly"





And I have newfound respect for Buzz Aldrin. But he comes from a generation where if you mouthed off to someone, you expected a punch in the face.

[Latro]

msmith537,
It seems like you feel that anyone who joins the U.S. milirairy automatically receives hero status with the signing of the contract.

That would explain the confusion here over the word 'hero'.

[istara]

She's a "hero" because she's young, female and pretty.

What saddens me is that while she was probably brave, and undoubtedly suffered, there are probably hundreds more soliders and civilians displaying far more "heroic" actions, and suffering far worse brutality, whose stories will go unnoticed.

Frankly, Lynch did not do anything outside the call of duty.

[msmith537]

Originally posted by Latro
msmith537,
It seems like you feel that anyone who joins the U.S. milirairy automatically receives hero status with the signing of the contract.

That would explain the confusion here over the word 'hero'. [/B]


I think the confusion is that we all have our own definition of "hero" and there are varying degrees of "heroism".

There are "heros" who are people we look up to as role models.
There are heros who by virtue of circumstance survive a terrible ordeal.
There are heros who do great things or demonstrate great sacrifice.

I would say that people who join the military aren't necessarily "heros", but they certainly deserve credit for taking on what most of us would consider a distasteful and dangerous task.


I think Lynch's story would have been a lot more remarkable if the rest of the POWs weren't released a week later. It kind of gives it a sense of "big deal..so she was rescued by commandos instead of spending another week in a hospital."

[urban1a]

I was going to start a thread similar to this, but I'm glad someone beat me to it.

My 'complaint' is that Jessica was delivered home in a blackhawk helicopter. Now, I'm sure that she wasn't the only one. I'm sure that the DOD provides a chaffeur driven blackhawk for every returning wounded soldier.

Still, it seemed to be to be more 'grandstanding' and 'political' than necessary.

Bob

[Dogface]

Originally posted by Aldebaran

Yet they are already made into heros because they make a living by learning how to kill... And when they then actually go somewhere to do the killing, they become saints.

I think you must be American to get this.

One word:

"Jihad".

Another word:

"Fatwa".

No, I think that many non-Americans are quite happy to glorify bloodletting. Indeed, we must never forget under any circumstances, whatsoever, no matter what, that Palestinians danced in the streets to celebrate the attack on New York City.

Bloodymindedness is not a uniquely American trait, no matter how much liars would have us believe otherwise.

[tracer]

Originally posted by istara
She's a "hero" because she's young, female and pretty.
Bingo.

I remember the CNN reports of the huge search-and-extraction operation the military underwent to get her back. Would they have put out so much effort if Lynch had been male? Doubtful.

[MLS]

Are you sure, tracer? Seems to me that unless the entire Black Hawk Down story (not just the movie) is complete and utter fiction, at least some branches of the military will go to rather extreme lengths to leave no one behind. Don't you think that all necessary measures would be taken if they had a tip as to the whereabouts of the soldier (Streiker?) still missing from Gulf War I?

[Kimstu]

msmith: We no longer value the rugged, tough Marine who wades ashore under heavy fire and punches a Nazi in the face.

Really? We seem to have quite a crush on the firefighters and police officers who run into collapsing skyscrapers to try to rescue people from a horrible death. Is that a "wussier" thing to do than punching a Nazi?

[Icerigger]

remember the CNN reports of the huge search-and-extraction operation the military underwent to get her back. Would they have put out so much effort if Lynch had been male? Doubtful.

I don't believe this is correct, remember Scott O'grady the F-16 pilot that was shot down over Bosnia. O'grady was made into a hero complete with medals against his wishes. Good press for the military.

[Latro]

Don't you think there is a wee difference between people trapped behind enemy lines and people already captured?
Let alone a POW being treated in a hospital.

[OliverH]

Originally posted by msmith537


There are a number of reasons:
-One of them is because the people in our military are there by their own choosing. They are not a bunch of rabble pressed into service


Which does not make them in any way whatsoever exceptional.


-The are are able to achieve a level of discipline and physical training that most people can't comprehend.


That's because that level of discipline has previously been found profoundly unconductive to civilized warfare.


-They believe in something greater than themselves and are willing to risk their lives defending it


Which does not make them in any way exceptional.


-They kick ass


So what you say is that what makes them exceptional is that their means of articulation of choice involves physical violence?

Wow. The Neandertal around the corner here was full of such heros.


I mean lets face it. Most people are fat stupid pussies who lead dull uninteresting lives. My admin freakin complains every day about everything. Half the people I know have their day ruined if they get stuck in a subway for 5 minutes. We live in a world where if you bitch and complain long enough, someone will make your big bad problem go away. These people jump out of airplanes and live in a world where their buddies might get blown up tomorrow for delivering auto supplies to the wrong map coordinates.

And would probably sh*t into their pants when asked to work in a level 4 biosafety lab.

The fact that half the people you know are morons who have nothing to live for says something about you, but is totally irrelevant to the point you tried to reply to.

[Dogface]

Level 4? That doesn't take guts. It's not like we're talking about an active hot zone, after all. The only thing that would really bother me is that I hate having my blood drawn, but if it's in the job description, I'll do it.

[stick monkey]

To the OP...

She did her job. It's a job I wouldn't like, and hopefully will not be forced to take. It (in my book) earns her respect, but doesn't make her a hero.

To Alderbaran's question:

Us americans (in general) like to paint rosey, optimistic, idealistic pictures of our world. We are rich fat and happy, so everyone else has to be, right?

We still tend to see our military in the same light as the veterans of the revolutionary war. We tend to think of them as shedding their blood for freedom and democracy. And while I think that many of the people who join the military join for that reason, In my experience, most just join to better their current situation (the collegiate benefits, or the 'easy' money/training, and the boost to the resume'). It's something that I personally commend anyone for trying (am big on self-improvement) and give them appropriate respect for doing.

However the gods' honest truth is that for the most part they are providing an unnecessary and often unwanted function in the modern world; and are unfortunately often pawns in heinous acts perpetuated by those in power.

In short we wear blinders in this country, just like everywhere else in the world.

[tracer]

Originally posted by MLS
Are you sure, tracer? Seems to me that unless the entire Black Hawk Down story (not just the movie) is complete and utter fiction, at least some branches of the military will go to rather extreme lengths to leave no one behind.
True -- but as Latro pointed out, the gy in Black Hawk Down was trapped behind enemy lines but not yet captured. Jessica Lynch was captured.

I seem to recall there were 6 other people with Lynch when she was captured -- yet the operation was advertised as the campaign to rescue Jessica Lynch, not the campaign to rescue 7 captured folks. (Whatever happened to the 6 people that were with her? Were they rescued too?)