How would you make Ash from AoD as a RPG character?

[Incubus]

I watched Evil Dead II/Army of Darkness again lately, this time during a midnight showing at a local theater. During the course of both movies, I noticed that Ash got posessed by the evil not once but twice (well, three times if you count the 'mitosis' thing in Army of Darkness). Almost other character that got possessed was usually dispatched very quickly-no chance of saving them it seemed. (Well except Sandra...I guess getting a spear in the gut will snap you out of that whole 'possesed' thing) Of course, every time Ash got posessed, there was some convenient device on hand to help him snap out of it all by himself, but because it happens so much, it makes me feel like he almost had a 'resistance' to posession, or at least unnatural luck on his side when he did get posessed.

So what would Ash be like if he was a AD&D character? Or a Vampire:The Masquerade character? I'm not too keen on the rules of those games so I couldn't think up what he would be like in those games, but I'm sure some dopers could be very creative with the concept.

[Incubus]

Well, here's what Ash would be like if he was a character from Warhammer 40,000:

Ash (HQ)

Weapon skill: 6
Ballistic skill: 6
Strength: 4
Toughness: 4
Wounds: 3
Initiative: 6
Attacks: 4
Leadership: 9
Armor save: 5+

Weapons: Close Combat Weapon (chainsaw), Shotgun

Special Rules:

Independent Character

-Ash wields his shotgun with one hand, and it counts as a close combat weapon for assault purposes. Because of this, Ash gets +1 attack for having 2 close combat weapons.

-Ash gets a 2+ invulnerable save vs wounds inflicted by daemons.

-When ever a Chaos psychic power is used against Ash, he may ignore its effects by taking a psychic test of his own and passing.

-Ash, and any squad he is leading, is considered fearless in close combat vs Daemons.

[Munch]

I dunno much about role playing, but I'd have to give him a pretty low Intelligence, but also give him a special saving throw for ingenuity, possibly a Gear Head-type Feat to enable him operate/create technology. In fact, I'd give him a very low Int. score. He's suprisingly stupid for someone who knows a great deal more than anyone on the planet (not alot of medieval types who can fix a car engine).

[ultrafilter]

As far as AD&D goes, I'd say that Ash has respectably high strength, decent dexterity, a remarkably high constitution, low intelligence, high wisdom, and decently high charisma.

Maybe something like this, using 2e scores?

str 13
dex 11
con 18
int 5
wis 17
cha 14

[El Elvis Rojo]

It's been a long time since I've played any roleplaying games, and even then, it was Vampire, which doesn't equate well to human characters much. It's got a six point scale. Still, I think he'd be a little above average in strength (about a 3), rather low in intelligence (about a 1), yet his dexterity and stamina would be crazy high (about a 5). He's a deadeye with riffles, and is apparently apt enough with weapons he's never seen to be able to train an army.

Plus, he's also going to have some sort of LUCK bonus. I mean, shit, if it weren't for luck, he'd be dead to rights straight from the beginning.

[Bryan Ekers]

Where does his "groovy" bonus fit in?

[godzillatemple]

High strength, dexterity, charisma, and constitution.

God-like luck.

Negative intelligence (if such a thing is possible)

[godzillatemple]

Hmmmm....

On second thought, that should be "God-like luck, but cursed so that it alternates between good and bad."

He has the worst luck in the world when it comes to getting into bad situations in the first place, but then manages to escape those situations largely by dumb luck.

So here's my breakdown:

strength 12
dexterity 16
constitution 18
intelligence -5
wisdom -10
charisma 16
luck bonus +- 100

Barry

[Balance]

We can flesh him out a bit with 3rd edition skills and feats (with an extra background feat from Arcanum). Some of my numbers may be a bit off, as I don't have my rulebooks on hand at the moment.

Race: Human
Class: Fighter
Level: 13

HP: 120
AC: 10 + 2(DEX) = 12
Base Attack Bonus: +13/+7/+1
Melee Attack Bonus: +14/+8/+2
Missile Attack Bonus: +15/+9/+3

Abilities

Strength 13
Dexterity 14 (It's reduced because he lost a hand.)
Constitution 19 (Sawing off your own hand without passing out? Yikes--serious fortitude save.)
Intelligence 4 (This is about the minimum for intelligible speech.)
Wisdom 10 (He's a fool, but he's obviously not taking heavy penalties on his will saves.)
Charisma 16 (Groovy)

Feats

Born Under a Sign (Arcanum--critical successes and failures are both more spectacular than normal, e.g. quadruple damage instead of double.)
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Reload
Shot on the Run
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (stump chainsaw)
Dodge
Power Attack
Cleave
Run
Iron Will
Weapon Focus (shotgun)
Weapon Specialization (shotgun)

Skills

Bluff 4 + 3 (CHA) = 7
Intimidate 4 + 3 (CHA) = 7
Alchemy (explosives) 1 - 5?(INT) = -4
Diplomacy (salesman) 2 + 3 (CHA) = 5
Jump 2 + 1 (STR) = 3
Climb 2 + 2 (DEX) = 4
Tumble 4 + 2 (DEX) = 6
Craft (weapons) 3 - 5 (INT) = -2

Special Weapons

Stump Chainsaw--
Damage: 1d10
Type: Chunky kibbling (Slashing)
Critical: 17-20/x3
Weight: 8 lbs.

Shotgun--
Range Increment: 5'/15'/25'
Damage: 1d12/1d8/1d6 (by range increment)
Type: Smithereening (Well, piercing, I suppose.)
Critical: 19-20/x2 (Criticals are only possible within the closest range increment.)
Special: The shotgun provides a +3 to Ash's missile attack bonus and may hit one additional target for each range increment beyond the first.
Weight: 6 lbs.

[Chronos]

You knew, of course, that somebody was going to nitpick. An ability score of 4 is only a -3 penaly, not a -5 (you need a 0 or 1 to get a -5), and for most creatures (humans included) Climb is a STR skill, not DEX. And in 3rd edition, range increment is a single number, not the separate short/medium/long of 2nd. And you're short a Feat: Remember, humans get a bonus one. I'd add Great Cleave: He levels zombies left and right repeatedly, right?

And no, I don't happen to have my rulebooks handy... Why do you ask?

[Darwin's Finch]

I'm not sure why everyone thinks Ash is stupid. He's brash, frequently cowardly, and lacking in wisdom, perhaps (he is, after all, a loud-mouthed braggart from the future!), but not really of moron-level intelligence. He forgets the wise-man's words (in AoD) because he's not interested in hearing his explanations, not because he's too stupid. He's at least smart enough to take a JC-level chemistry class, and understand "alloys and compositions and things with molecular structure" - and he's able to make gun powder by reading his textbook!

I would give him maybe a 9 Intelligence on a 3-18 scale, and give him a 6 or 7 Wisdom. Alignment-wise, I'd put him more towards Chaotic Good (he's basically a good guy, but more interested in saving his own hide than anything else). If he's got the chain-saw hand, I'd give him more or less normal strength; if he's got the mechanical hand, I'd give him Ogre Strength (18/00 in 1st and 2nd Ed. AD&D rules) in that hand.

[Lord Ashtar]

Originally posted by godzillatemple
So here's my breakdown:

strength 12
dexterity 16
constitution 18
intelligence -5
wisdom -10
charisma 16
luck bonus +- 100

Barry

I have a quibble with your intelligence score. My understanding of the INT score is that it is booksmarts. I highly doubt that someone with a score of 5 would be able to understand a Chemistry 101 book well enough to make gunpowder. I'd probably write him up like this:

strength 12
dexterity 13
constitution 15
intelligence 12
wisdom 9
charisma 16

-LA

[Lord Ashtar]

Excellent simupost, Darwin's Finch!

[Darwin's Finch]

:D

[Balance]

Originally posted by Chronos
You knew, of course, that somebody was going to nitpick. An ability score of 4 is only a -3 penaly, not a -5 (you need a 0 or 1 to get a -5), and for most creatures (humans included) Climb is a STR skill, not DEX. And in 3rd edition, range increment is a single number, not the separate short/medium/long of 2nd. And you're short a Feat: Remember, humans get a bonus one. I'd add Great Cleave: He levels zombies left and right repeatedly, right?

And no, I don't happen to have my rulebooks handy... Why do you ask?
Yah, I knew someone would nitpick. That would be the reason for my disclaimer and the quizzer by the -5 penalty for intelligence. I just plain screwed up on Climb, and I should know better, since my current character is a rather acrobatic sorcerer who uses it all the time.

As for feats...hrm. I know I counted the human bonus feat. So a human fighter gets:
1 (base feat) + 2 (bonus feats for class and race) + 1 feat per 4 levels after first (general) + 1 feat per 2 levels after first (fighter bonus feats). That gives us 3+12/4+12/2=12 feats. Oh, right--Weapon Specialization is a separate bonus. I was counting it against feats. Yeah, Great Cleave is a good one to add.

I made the range increment business up for the shotgun, since the weapon's characteristics don't really fit the standard range rules too well. I suppose you could just call it a 10' increment weapon, but I might back the damage down to a d10 for the closest increment. I was trying to model the shotgun's devastating effects at extreme close range while severely limiting its longer-range capabilities.

[Johnny Bravo]

Hmm.

Don't forget his ability to wield two swords at once.

[ultrafilter]

The damage on the chainsaw ought to be a little higher for 3e, I think.

Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I think that Ash is pretty smart, but he's got low wisdom (although he does have high willpower).

[Balance]

You could be right about the chainsaw, ultrafilter, but that's why I made the criticals so nasty on it. Not many things crit on a 17-20, and I can't think of any of those that do triple damage. A normal hit will only do 4-13 points of damage...but with Ash's Sign feat, his criticals with it are horrific. Signs adds two steps to the crit multiplier, so if he backs up a threat, he does about 20-65 points of damage. That's ugly. Still, I could see changing it to something higher--maybe 2d8--and backing the crit down to x2? That would give him damage ranges of 5-20 for normal hits and 20-80 (yikes) for crits. His average hit will be about 12 points, which should generally drop a bottom-rung undead creature. I would also say that a chainsaw automatically bypasses damage resistance against slashing damage, and possibly some other resistances. I'd probably treat it as a +1 weapon for resistance purposes.

I set Ash's intelligence score so low because of his lousy memory and his often idiotic behavior, but I see everyone's point about it. Maybe it should be wisdom 3, intelligence 11 (or thereabouts). Of course, that screws up his will saves. Maybe a Sheer Cussedness feat that lets him use his charisma bonus on will saves instead?

[ultrafilter]

There was a 2e supplemental book that split the scores in half. I'd have to go dig it up, but it's probably the right way to approach this. Ash is a damn fool, but his willpower is impressive.

To be completely realistic, the chainsaw should do more damage (maybe 2d10?) and have a higher critical hit rate, but for play balance, what you have is fine. How about 1d4 + 6, though? It seems unlikely that a chainsaw would do low damage.

[ultrafilter]

All right, I think I remember the names of the split scores, although not the effects.

Strength was split into stamina and power. Stamina basically determined how much the character's speed suffered at a given percentage of max encumbrance, and power was everything else.

Dexterity was split into aim and balance. Aim affected the hit rate of a character's ranged attacks, and balance affected the AC bonus.

Constitution was split into health and toughness. Toughness determined hp bonuses and regeneration rates, while health affected diseases and stuff like that.

Intelligence was split into memory and reason. I don't recall any details on the effects.

Wisdom was split into intuition and willpower. Again, I don't remember the details.

Charisma was split into appearance and personality. Appearance affected reactions (maybe) and personality affected the number of followers a character would get.

So maybe this is a little better description:

Ash
13 power, 16 stamina
15 aim, 11 balance
18 toughness, 10 health
8 memory, 12 reason
5 intuition, 18 willpower
14 appearance, 8 personality

[Balance]

I remember the supplement you're talking about, but I didn't like the split-score business. IIRC, it split intelligence into something like Memory/Reasoning, which doesn't really help much. I think I'd rather go with the feat approach.

Sheer Cussedness
Prerequisites: Charisma 13+, Iron Will
The character is extremely stubborn and may resist effects that require a Will save through sheer force of personality.
Benefits: The character may replace the Wisdom bonus to Will saves with his Charisma bonus.
Special: The character will never consent to be the subject of any mental magic or effect, even if the effect is benign. This includes healing magic or psionic abilities intended to cure mental disorders. In the event that such an ability is used on the character, he must make a Will save as if the effect were hostile.

You know, I wonder if Dragon would be interested in a full workup of AoD characters and items? They've done similar things in the past.

[Miller]

As for feats...hrm. I know I counted the human bonus feat. So a human fighter gets:
1 (base feat) + 2 (bonus feats for class and race) + 1 feat per 4 levels after first (general) + 1 feat per 2 levels after first (fighter bonus feats). That gives us 3+12/4+12/2=12 feats. Oh, right--Weapon Specialization is a separate bonus. I was counting it against feats. Yeah, Great Cleave is a good one to add.

You get feats every three levels after first, and ability bonus every four levels. And weapon specialization is, indeed, a feat, albiet one only available to fighters. So, if Ash is a 13th level fighter, he should have 1 for being human, 5 for being a thirteenth level character, and 7 for being a thirteenth level fighter. 13 feats all told. However, Shot on the Run requires Mobility. I'd replace Run with Mobility, and upgrade Cleave to Great Cleave with the extra feat.

I'd also argue that Ash has a high Intelligence but a low Wisdom. Actually, his Intelligence should be freakishly high, since he's able (with the blacksmith's help) to create an advanced cybernetic hand out of 14th century materials. However, he has the common sense of a baked ham. He never listens to anyone else's advice and is always plunging recklessly ahead. I'd say his Int should be around 20, minimum, but his Wisdom should be any higher than 6 or so. Plus, in the second movie, he comes pretty close to going completely insane, and blows his Will save v. having his hand possessed, which suggests to me that he's got some penalties for a low Wisdom.

[Balance]

Well, I have my books now, but I'm going away for the weekend. Maybe I'll have time to rework him properly, based on the feedback here. If so, I'll post the results on Monday.

[Lord Ashtar]

Originally posted by ultrafilter
All right, I think I remember the names of the split scores, although not the effects.

Strength was split into stamina and power. Stamina basically determined how much the character's speed suffered at a given percentage of max encumbrance, and power was everything else.

Dexterity was split into aim and balance. Aim affected the hit rate of a character's ranged attacks, and balance affected the AC bonus.

Constitution was split into health and toughness. Toughness determined hp bonuses and regeneration rates, while health affected diseases and stuff like that.

Intelligence was split into memory and reason. I don't recall any details on the effects.

Wisdom was split into intuition and willpower. Again, I don't remember the details.

Charisma was split into appearance and personality. Appearance affected reactions (maybe) and personality affected the number of followers a character would get.

So maybe this is a little better description:

Ash
13 power, 16 stamina
15 aim, 11 balance
18 toughness, 10 health
8 memory, 12 reason
5 intuition, 18 willpower
14 appearance, 8 personality

The book I think you're pulling this from is Player's Options: Skills and Powers. If that's the case, you're going to have to redo the above scores. You're only allowed to split off by two points in each direction. For example, if you have a Strength score of 12, the max either Power or Stamina can be 14.

Man, and I haven't played in years!

[ultrafilter]

I haven't checked in a while, but I thought it said that in most cases, the scores should be off by no more than two. Ash is an exceptional individual, so he gets to be the exception.

[Odesio]

I'd make him a 200 point character in a highly cinematic game of GURPs.

Marc

[Incubus]

Wow, I'm surprised nobody took into account his ability to resist/overcome possession (or is that what a Will Save /cussedness would save against?)

I think his biggest advantage would be constitution, maybe also endurance. Ash takes an enormous amount of punishment, and a lot of it is protracted ordeals.

[HPL]

Now I've got an urge to Play Fallout 1 and 2 again with a character named Ash, trying to emulate the character as closely as possible.

Can it be done with the SPECIAL system?

I'm thinking High Constitution, decent intelligence, medium to high perception(his gun skill seems to be pretty good), high endurance, low charisma, High luck, high agility, high strength. Probably have to use an editor to make it work, because there aren't enough points to go around.

Of course, then you have perks and skills to worry about.