I May End Up Voting For A Pornographer [sigh]

[Zenster]

Let's look at the alternatives: Gray Davis (democrat):

This guy makes republican fund raisers look like girl scouts selling cookies door to door. You'd have to peel back an inch thick layer of C-notes before anyone could even begin to grease his palm. He has had the nerve to hit up some of the most poorly paid professionals in the entire state (teachers). This hack is so busy endorsing campaign contribution checks, he probably hasn't signed a bill into law for months. Top everything off with the fact that he has all the charisma of a wilted celery stalk and there's no way I can possibly vote to retain him in this trainwreck-of-a-state's highest office.

Arnold Schwarznegger (republican):

You would think that California had long ago learned its lesson about actors running for office. Alas, this is not so. Tonight's Leno show will reveal the sordid truth. We can only hope that Arnie will stick with his strong suit, weight lifting. The remaining field of alternatives have all the appeal of moose turd pie. Also ran contender from the previous gubernatorial election, Bill ("flip flop") Simon has changed positions on important issues quicker than a two bit whore looking at a hundred dollar tip. Besides, I would rather pay double to eat all my meals at McDonald's for the rest of my life than vote republican even once.
So, what are we left with? Larry Flynt (smut peddler):

Does anyone else get the feeling that, just maybe, a pornographer might exhibit a greater sense of morality than today's current crop of politicians? Sadly, even someone liberated enough to overcome any aversions to the politically seditious nature that photos of naked people represent can still harbor severe conflicts of interest. Here is an excerpt (http://www.msnbc.com/local/KNBC/A1722892.asp) from a recent news article:

"The registered Democrat, civil libertarian and free speech advocate said he'd solve California's budget woes by expanding slot machine gambling. His holdings include several casinos.

"California is the most progressive state in the union," said Flynt, 61. "I don't think anyone here will have a problem with a smut peddler as governor."

You've got to know that I'm overjoyed at the prospect of a governor who wants to promote expansion of gambling when he already has a substantial stake in several casinos. This makes about the same sense as having Pat Robertson determine the separation of church and state.

Do any other California voters have some informed opinions? [sigh]

[Toddly]

What a terrible time to want the Governors job. 38 billion in the red. How much success are you going to have? Hopefully the choices will grow from your meager list. I guess Bill Lockyer is going to wait until the next regular election to make his run. He would win in a minute. This state is a mess at the moment.

[Toddly]

What a terrible time to want the Governors job. 38 billion in the red. How much success are you going to have? Hopefully the choices will grow from your meager list. I guess Bill Lockyer is going to wait until the next regular election to make his run. He would win in a minute. This state is a mess.

[rjung]

At this point, aside from saying (again) that Darryl Issa is a poopy-head, there isn't much to do, is there? I'd rather the recall not go through at all, but at this point, I'm holding out hope the Dems might run a good candidate for the ballot.

But as Toddly said, who really wants the job at this point?

[Publius]

Ordinarily, I would support either Senator Feinstein or Richard Riordan for the governorship. They're both extremely capable political leaders, and they seem like decent people to boot. Ironically, though, I don't want them to win precisely because I like them so much more than most politicians out there: as Toddly and rjung pointed out, anyone who governs California at the moment is just asking to get screwed.

Naturally, then, we should support the candidate who has the most experience in the field of getting screwed. Flynt for Governor!

[kiwiboy]

While being in the red makes the job harder, look on the bright side - whoever wins has a ready made excuse for whatever goes wrong on their watch. Loved Zenster's appraisal of the candidates though.

A quick question - How can Arnie run? Wasn't he born in Austria. Or does only the President have to be a native-born American.

[TeaElle]

The native-born rules only apply to the national executive, kiwiboy.

For the record, Schwarznegger isn't announcing until Wednesday night's Leno, unless there is a change I'm unaware of.

Any way you slice it, California is screwed, hard. Whoever runs and wins the office is going to be screwed, hard. However, I'd be lying if I didn't say that it feels like a great big "you reap what you sow" kind of situation from where I'm sitting.

[Revtim]

You say "pornographer" like it's a BAD thing.....

[Zenster]

Originally posted by rjung
At this point, aside from saying (again) that Darryl Issa is a poopy-head, there isn't much to do, is there? ... You mean Darryl ("prior weapons arrest and Nazi memorabilia vendor") Issa? This weasle makes Bill Simon look like a stand-up kind of guy.

[lightingtool]

I feel terrible saying this, but I'm probably not going to vote. I can't think of a single person who's running that I would want to be in charge. Buncha maroons.

[Syntropy]

lightingtool, you aren't alone. This will be the first time I've sat out on an election since I turned 18. I just think there are so many other things all that money could be going toward, (schools spring immediately to mind), and thta this is a horrid, horrid waste of our time and tax dollars. It's downright depressing. Although, I really liked Ahhnult's bill. I even voted for it.

[jjimm]

I only just heard what's happening in California. Please somebody explain how in the name of sweet f_ck the governor managed to make that kind of debt out of a budget surplus? It's simply staggering.

[AskNott]

Yes, California is soooooo screwed. In 2000, when Americans were pretty much happy with the way things were going, Enron and other robber barons created an artificial energy shortage in California and high gasoline prices nationwide. It will probably never be possible to prove that all of that was done to elect a Republican president and vice president who came from the Texas oil business. It sure was mighty darned convenient. That's all I'm saying. It sure was mighty darned convenient.

[CrankyAsAnOldMan]

I'm with RevTim--what the hell is so wrong with pornographers? Granted, I don't immediately see how working in adult media production prepares one for sound political leadership, but your objections don't seem to be about his lack of qualifications but rather because "smut-peddling" is inherently awful.

I'm glad we have smut-peddlers. I enjoy some good smut, and so do millions of other degenerates just like me.

[Publius]

Originally posted by jjimm
I only just heard what's happening in California. Please somebody explain how in the name of sweet f_ck the governor managed to make that kind of debt out of a budget surplus? It's simply staggering.

In all honesty, I don't believe it was the governor. It has a lot more to do with the Legislature and, unfortunately, the people.

In 1990, California voters passed Proposition 140, which limited members of the Assembly to three two-year terms and members of the Senate to two four-year terms. The idea was that we'd be represented by citizen-legislators who cared more about representing local constituent interests than about being career politicians. Instead, we've been left with one of the most dysfunctional legislatures in the country.

Term-limited legislators lack institutional memory, institutional pride, and all the other fruits of experience reaped by the institutional legislators of the pre-term limits era. Today's representatives are generally more interested in securing a job after their stint in the Legislature than they are in making the Legislature work. They generally have very little understanding of how the state legislative process works, and very little time in which to learn. Most of them don't even bother to try; they leave the tough decisions to whichever special interests hold the most power over them. Lobbyists aren't term-limited, after all.

To make matters worse, the initiative process has interfered with the budget process in other ways. The people have, for example, passed propositions sharply limiting state tax revenue (Proposition 13, 1978) (http://www.cbp.org/1997/9704pr13.htm), but have also passed others requiring that certain percentages of each budget be devoted to certain pet interests (Proposition 98, 1988; (http://www.cbp.org/2000/qh000701.html) Proposition 49, 2002) (http://www.smartvoter.org/2002/11/05/ca/state/prop/49/) . The legislature is surprisingly restricted in its ability to both raise taxes and cut spending, which is obviously going to cause problems in all but the best fiscal environment. There's simply not enough unappropriated money to go around.

The Legislature must take the blame for the immediate budget crisis, in my opinion. The people, however, share the blame for creating the current dysfunctional legislature, and for interfering far too much in its legislative process with far too little understanding of what the consequences will be.

[Tars Tarkas]

I'm thinking of voting for Flynt as well. This recall is a joke, and i can't think of a better fitting punchline than to have Larry Flynt take over, just because the shock would kill thousands of hard core republicans.






And i might be able to score some vagina pictures from the governor if i go to the capital....

[Saxman]

Although I assumed I'd never vote anything but Democrat, if there are no credible Democrats on the ticket, I'll likely vote for Arianna Huffington -- she is really quite an impressive political thinker. Check out her columns on Salon.com or other publications...

[Skydive101]

Republican checking in, I'm voting for Flynt.

[Giraffe]

I'm a Democrat who thinks Davis is a corrupt bastard, but I'm voting against the recall. It sets a very bad precident in my opinion -- we just had an election and Davis won. The recall should be used to get people out of office immediately who are caught breaking the law, not as a do-over when your guy doesn't win the election.

I still get to vote for the replacement, though, so I might vote for Larry Flynt. But only if he promises free issues of Hustler to every registered voter.

[aaslatten]

People who think it couldn't happen would do well to remember Gov. Ventura.

I'd be worried about Flynt's health, though. He looks like hell.

[gotpasswords]

Two other folks that have filled out the forms to get themselves on the ballot are comedian Gallagher and Libertarian Ned Roscoe.

Roscoe's an interesting one. He's the president of a chain of discount shops called "Cigarettes Cheaper!" and he's been an outspoken critic of government for ages. His gas pumps had stickers on them saying "Taxes are a waste!" listing the percentages and where they go to. He's also fought vigorously to repeal Prop 10 and the 50-cent per pack tax on cigarettes. He's likely to win on that aspect alone if he promises to save smokers a butt-load of cash. Non-smokers have also had a chance to see that those tax revenues haven't exactly been put to good use.

Back before the web was born, Mr. Roscoe printed commentaries on his shopping bags - IIRC, he called them bagitorials: editorials printed on bags. Feel free to also call them rants or screeds.

As for Gallagher, (http://gallaghersmash.com/index2.htm) I'm hoping he's joking.

I heard on the news last night, that 340 or so people have picked up the paperwork to put their name on the ballot. If even 10% of them follow through, we're going to have one humongo ballot. It's so simple to do - IIRC, it takes either 10,000 signatures and $3,500, or $10,000 and no signatures.

[Tars Tarkas]

they said it was $3500 and like 65 sigs. so i could run if i wanted to blow $3500 and spend an hour in front of safeway getting sigs.

[Sam Stone]

From The Daily Show:

"Larry Flynt says he has a plan to balance the budget in California without raising taxes. No details of the plan were available, but experts say it probably involves showing the inside of a woman's vagina."

[SuperNova]

Adam Corrolla's been making jokes about running for Gov. for the past month on the radio. I hope he runs...

[Tuckerfan]

Originally posted by aaslatten
People who think it couldn't happen would do well to remember Gov. Ventura.

I'd be worried about Flynt's health, though. He looks like hell. You know, Gov. Jesse "The Body" Ventura's considering a run for the White House, don't you?

[Violet]

Originally posted by lightingtool
... Buncha maroons.
:confused:

[constantine]

Originally posted by Giraffe
I'm a Democrat who thinks Davis is a corrupt bastard, but I'm voting against the recall. It sets a very bad precident in my opinion -- we just had an election and Davis won. The recall should be used to get people out of office immediately who are caught breaking the law, not as a do-over when your guy doesn't win the election.
I absolutely agree. I am no fan of Gray Davis, but the whole point of representative government, of course, is that we don't hold a statewide plebiscite every day, and we don't get mob rule.

The idea behind the recall process (when it was instituted way back when) was to put more power into the hands of the people, and to avoid the machine politics of the big (and small) eastern cities. BUT in fact what this recall proves is that a small well-funded minority can hijack the process and get a "redo" when they don't like the result. And remember that if there is a recall, the winner of the election for the new governor is whoever gets the plurality of votes. There is no requirement that the candidate get a majority. If you look at the arithmetic of this, it is shocking. Less than 2 million signatures required to get the recall on the ballot, and then, if the recall goes through, the winning candidate probably only needs 20% or so of the votes cast.

[Violet]

Originally posted by constantine
I absolutely agree. I am no fan of Gray Davis, but the whole point of representative government, of course, is that we don't hold a statewide plebiscite every day, and we don't get mob rule.

Also against the recall although not happy with Gray.

[BraheSilver]

Am I the only one thinking about voting for Tom McClintock, or is there some sordid history that I don't know about? He seems pretty solid from the interviews I've heard.

[Governor Quinn]

Well, BraheSilver, McClintock's reputation is that he never saw a government service he didn't want to privatize, all the way down to streetlights. In addition, many members of his own party still begrudge him for how he acted during the last budget crisis, when he was no help to Gov. Wilson.

[Atrael]

I don't know. Say what you will, but Larry Flynt did build a multi-million dollar bussiness, that has been around for ...what, 20 years?

I think that makes him just as qualified as a lot of other people that run, and sometimes get elected.

Of course, I don't live in California....;)

[Giraffe]

Originally posted by Tars Tarkas
they said it was $3500 and like 65 sigs. so i could run if i wanted to blow $3500 and spend an hour in front of safeway getting sigs. I think a good trick would be to run 10-20 candidates with the same or similar names as a candidate you don't want to win. Thus, if you really hate (e.g.) Richard Riordan, you'd fill the ballot with Richard Reardon, Richard Neardon, Dick Riordan, Pritchard Peerdom, etc. You'd either have to find people with those names or have people legally change their current names, but hey -- California's a big state. I'm sure you could come up with whoever you needed. :p

[Zenster]

The only logical sticking point I can see is that it will cost extra millions of dollars to hold the recall measure right away. Davis has legitimately pointed out that a statewide presidential primary will be held in March and that may be the best time to do this. Anyone else have a read on this? There does seem to be an odor of a small, dissatisfied political minority stirring up trouble. Sadly, the unctuous stench of well oiled political machinery wafting from the governor's office is much more noticeable.

[rjung]

Originally posted by Zenster
There does seem to be an odor of a small, dissatisfied political minority stirring up trouble.
It certainly doesn't help dispel the illusion when Darrel Issa was spearheading the recall effort, his answering machine announced that it was for the "Issa for Governor campaign." :rolleyes:

Sadly, the unctuous stench of well oiled political machinery wafting from the governor's office is much more noticeable.
Yeah, but the voters voted for Davis anyway last year. Just because some Republicans got bratty at losing another election is no reason for a recall.

[Mr. Miskatonic]

I can sort of see both side sof the issue in this matter. On the one hand, I feel like the whole recall thing is like a kid on the playground who just muffed a flyaball that scored 4 runs screaming "do over! do over!".

On the other hand, I can see why that kid on the field feels like the school bully made him drop the ball by whacking him on the back of the head just as he was about the catch the ball.

The question is where is the wrong and who is too blame? Its painfully obviosu that Davis meddled with the Republican primaries to get a weaker candidate to run against. Knocking the real threat, Riordan, out of the picture so that the weaker and abysmally inadequete Simon was the Republican's sole white hope.

This does lead to the dilema: Who is at fault? the manipulator or those who so easily let themselves be swayed? you can argue either way.

Davis's other evil trait in the election was his total poo-pooing of the idea that there would be any state budget deficit to worry about. The one thing Simon got right in his campaign was how the fical situation was actually very dire. "Twaddle" said the Davis camp, and California fell for the lie. After all, Simon was a hysterical ninny who complained about Davis's fundraising tactics in the worst way possible. Of course, mere hours after the election was over Davis all but admitted the lie and said we've got a budget problem.

So who is at fault? Davis for lying or California for buying his lies?

I dislike the idea of this recall, but not for the idea that it will 'set a bad precedent'. Recall efforts have been numerous in the past and the vast, vast majority of them have failed miserably. This one had quite a head of steam to it, and it kept on going. It might have been self-serving politicos that stareted it, but it was maintained by the sheer frustration and arrogance of Davis. This kind of emotional steamhead doesn't build up easy, and won't be easily pulled again.

Davis made several mistakes along the way that actually helped the recall vote. He ginored at first, which was probably the correct thing to do, but he also ignored the problems as well that led to it. Then he tried to use legal tricks to get the movement dismissed, which seemed more like trickery than any real politcal effort. He claimed he would defeat it by painting it as a right-wing conspiracy, which even if correct is not the tactic people want to se out of Davis right now. Even democratic leaders are telling him to behave this time around.

For it or against it, its going to happen now. I likely won't vote for Davis. So I think I'll find a nice fringe candidate to waste my vote on. Heck I did that in the 2000 presidential election. It was an act of protest.

[X~Slayer(ALE)]

Originally posted by Toddly
What a terrible time to want the Governors job. 38 billion in the red. How much success are you going to have? This state is a mess.
Daaamn, then electing Larry Flynt is going to make sense. If he puts up all the surveillance videos of pornographers, celebrities, politicians and mobsters on a pay-per-view website, California would be in the black in 6 months!

[Giraffe]

Originally posted by Mr. Miskatonic
Its painfully obviosu that Davis meddled with the Republican primaries to get a weaker candidate to run against. Knocking the real threat, Riordan, out of the picture so that the weaker and abysmally inadequete Simon was the Republican's sole white hope.Actually, I thought the worst part was where he put every single Republican voter in a headlock and forced them to vote for Simon over Riordan. That was really scummy.

[Dogface]

Don't worry. Democrats have promised that they'll finance their own recall if a Republican wins.

That way, everybody can play the same game again in a month or two.

[Tars Tarkas]

Originally posted by Giraffe
I think a good trick would be to run 10-20 candidates with the same or similar names as a candidate you don't want to win. Thus, if you really hate (e.g.) Richard Riordan, you'd fill the ballot with Richard Reardon, Richard Neardon, Dick Riordan, Pritchard Peerdom, etc. You'd either have to find people with those names or have people legally change their current names, but hey -- California's a big state. I'm sure you could come up with whoever you needed. :p

Goog tip! This better happen again 25 years from now in whatever state i'm living in, i'll own that election!

[BobT]

It's interesting how many more threads came up on the California recall once Schwarzenegger got involved.

California politics hasn't had this much attention since Upton Sinclair ran for governor in 1934!

[Giraffe]

Originally posted by Tars Tarkas
Goog tip! This better happen again 25 years from now in whatever state i'm living in, i'll own that election! Why 25 years? :confused:

[Zenster]

Originally posted by BobT
It's interesting how many more threads came up on the California recall once Schwarzenegger got involved ... I always try to post early and avoid the crush. Schwarznegger's participation only steels my resolve that the recall should be unsuccessful (for any republican candidate, that is).

[MovieMogul]

Here's another CA resident who hates Gray, didn't vote for him, but will be voting against the recall.

As for my for his replacement, Flynt is looking like an increasingly promising choice: Plenty of business experience (much more than Arnold), and it would be the best irony possible for a Republican-led coup to result in a figure they hate even more than Davis winning. Plus Flynt has plenty of demographics covered: he's disabled, a big Freedom of Speech advocate, and the classic "joke" candidate--you know a lot of people will vote for him because it's almost irresistable not to. He has huge name recognition, and you can bet he'll be making the rounds of talk shows. Although he's obviously self-interested (and not free of conflicts of interest), I also don't see this as a stepping-stone to greater political aspirations; in fact, I trust his intentions more than I do some of the other high-profile "legit" candidates. My politics may align a bit more with Arianna, but I think Larry's got a better shot at it.

[ivylass]

Question...how can you vote against the recall?

The recall is going to happen. You're either not going to vote or you have to vote for another candidate. And since Davis isn't going to be on the ballot, you can't vote against the recall by voting for him. Or am I missing something?

Wasn't Flynt the one who said we should all pray that Bill O'Reilly dies painfully from a brain aneurysm (sp)? WTF is up with that nonsense?

[Moirai]

Well, there is one candidate running who at least has some experience- Cruz Bustamante, our current lt gov. He has broken dem ranks and announced.

Arnold is not the only wierd candidate- Gary Coleman ("whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis?") is running, and the 99 Cents store chain is offering to pay the $3499.99 fee for anyone 99 years old who wants to get on the ballot.

Arianna Huffington just doesn't interest me. Jack Kemp would, but there are only a couple of days left to declare and he probably won't involve himself in this mess. I might have voted to Riordan or Feinstein, but now I have no idea.

One thing I do know- nothing good will come of this recall. I understand that Willy Brown, the infamous mayor of San Francisco, has already said that if the recall happens, he will immediately call for a recall of Davis' replacement, and then a recall of that replacement, ad infinitum, so that CA is stuck having recall elections every six months. I assume this is just to be a prick, because it sure as hell will hurt our state even more than the Davis recall.

[Moirai]

Originally posted by ivylass
Question...how can you vote against the recall?

The recall is going to happen. You're either not going to vote or you have to vote for another candidate. And since Davis isn't going to be on the ballot, you can't vote against the recall by voting for him. Or am I missing something?

IIRC, the first question on the ballot will be something like "Do you want to recall Gray Davis?" You can vote "no."

If enough people vote "no," there will be no recall.

[MovieMogul]

There are two votes:

(1) Do you vote to remove Davis from office? Yes, he has been recalled (hence, the election), but if 50.1% vote "No", then he stays.

(2) If 50.1% vote "Yes", who would you like to replace him. One can still vote No on (1) and still have a preference for a replacement.

I have no idea what Flynt might have said about O'Reilly, but if he did, I would bet O'Reilly threw the first punch.

[ivylass]

Oh, so this recall effort was just to get the initiative on the ballot. Gotcha.

I'm sorry, but praying for someone to die painfully and slowly of a brain aneurysm? That's just sick.

Good luck, California, and as a Floridian, thanks for taking the country's mind off that whole hanging chad thing.

[Tars Tarkas]

Originally posted by Giraffe
Why 25 years? :confused:

by then i'll have the money and clout. Hopefully me and some friends can take over a state Huey Long style.

[Syntropy]

And now, the flipping moron that started the whole flipping mess is pulling out (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/08/07/national1620EDT0668.DTL) of the flipping ballot!!

[Chefguy]

Originally posted by Zenster
The remaining field of alternatives have all the appeal of moose turd pie. [sigh]

Recipe?

[Marvel]

I'm in Ohio, but I'd vote for Flynt just because he's such a no b*llsh*t fella with a "screw if they can't take a joke" attitude that you can rest assured he's not lying to ya. Sure couldn't make the state's situation worse!

Patty

P.S. I think the guy who started this whole recall mess (Issa) was planning all along to just get the politcal ball rolling (must've known he couldn't win) and then pull out after Ah-Nod said he'd run. I wonder if Jay Leno is going to give equal TV time to the other candidates (just thinking about FCC regulations here).