What? No Frddy vs. Jason thread? *SPOILERS*

[bouv]

OK, I admit that I say this movie last night, and I also admit that I was very excited to do so...but I was kinda dissapointed, and here's a few reasons why:

The acting was HORRIBLE!! Freddy was the best among them! And that girl from Destiny's Child made me cringe with EVERY LINE! I relaize they were going for the stereotypical "ghetto" girl, but it was too forced. And the script itself was not a gem, either. I mean, I didn't expect much, and I got even less than that. Lines such as:
"Wait a minute...Freddy was killed with fire, Jason was killed with water..how can we use that against them?" WTF? Who says that? And the one thing that annoyed me more than anything else:

THE SHOCKWAVE FROM THE PROPANE! Since when does propane explode with a blue wave of force? Christ! Here's a tip for the F X guys: Don't take tips from the special edition of Star Wars, ok?

Now on to the stuff I liked:
The intro. I have never seen any of the Nightmare movies, so it was actually nice to to find out the backstory to Freddy, and the whole concepot of getting the naked girl skinny dipping out of the way in the first ten minutes was brilliant.

Some of the shots were pretty good, too. The cinematograhper (sp?) deserves credit. The one with Freddy jumping out of the water was amazing, and Jason walking out of the lake was pretty good, too.

Questions left unaswered: Who actually won? As my friend put it, "Jason walked out of the lake with Freddy's head! He clearly won!" Wheras I say, since Freddy winked, he won, cause he's not actually dead, just biding his time before he kills (well, not kill, since both are essentially immortal, but you get the idea) Jason.

[MyFootsZZZ]

A question. Are their still teens getting naked for no reason? Or is that Horror movie trait dead now that the production companies are looking for more 'well known' actors who probably would never disrobe in front of the camera?

[Tuckerfan]

You know that the guy who directed this is also responsible for Bride of Chuckie, don't you?

[Krokodil]

Yeah, the're still getting naked for no particular reason. And yeah, they all look like they got their silicone implants from the same cosmetic surgeon.

God, the whole movie was so slapschticky I expect F and J to fight Adam West and Burt Ward next time around!

[Fibber McGee]

Just got back and here's my own review of the film. First the non-spoilery stuff:

On a scale of one to four, with one being blah and four being Holy Shit![/b] the first two thirds of this film are definately one-star material all the way. The plot exists solely to Freddy and Jason interacting, but that doesn't matter because that no more or less than expected. The characters are all uninteresting nonentities who mostly exist just to get stabbed, but that's nothing new or unexpected either. What was unexpected is that none of Jason's killings or Freddy's dream sequences with the exception of the stuff involving at the beginning and end of the film are in the least bit creative or original. Jason is all hack'em up, hack'em up, machete, machete. Freddy's bits cover ground gone over time and time again in previous films: the boiler room, Freddy's house, the little girls with their creepy jump-rope song, etc. Each does get one interesting bit after repeatedly and viciously stabbing one victim in the back as he lay in bed, Jason then folds him up in the bed like a sandwhich, and there's a cool dream sequence where Freddy appears to a Jason Mewes wannabe stoner character in the form of a hookah-smoking caterpillar but it's far too little far too late.

Thankfully the film picks up in a major way in the final act as we finally get down to the meat of the matter, the pure hack 'n' slashy goodness of a full-on no-holds-barred F vs. J slugfest, and for a few minutes there all is good and right in the world as we're treated to as fine a display of mutual ass-kickery with occasional gore as I've ever seen. The bit in the dream world with Freddy gleefully exploiting Jason's troubled past, reducing him to the frieghtened and cowering child within, was especially effective.[/spoilers]

[spoilers]Unfortunately those boring ass non-Freddy and Jason meat puppets refuse to go away. A couple of them survive and get into the middle of the big grudge match, ensuring that no definate conclusion is in the offing. Though the film ends with the arresting image of Jason emerging from the waters of Crystal Lake holding Freddy's decapitated head (a neat trick with no hair to hold on to) Freddy's head quite literally tips a wink to the audience, so there is no winner, though Frddy definately dished out more ass-whoop than Jason, even in the real world. Freddy totally owning Jason in the middle of an abandoned construction site is the best sequence in the entire film.

On whole, I'd give this film two and a half stars. A relatively entertaining time at the movies for slasher fans, mainly for the big Freddy vs. Jason fight, but if you're only a casual fan, I'd suggest giving this one a miss.

[Fibber McGee]

Originally posted by Krokodil
Yeah, the're still getting naked for no particular reason. And yeah, they all look like they got their silicone implants from the same cosmetic surgeon.

God, the whole movie was so slapschticky I expect F and J to fight Adam West and Burt Ward next time around!

Actually I've heard rumors suggesting Micheal Myers will figure into the next installment, and with the Texas Chainsaw Massacre franchise apparently now under New Line's control I wouldn't rule out an appearance by Leatherface either.

[Menocchio]

For a movie that was essentially an answer to a geeky argument about two horror francises that had both long ago descended into cheesy self-parody, it was brilliant.

Complaining about bad acting, or plot holes (to a certain extent) is like arguing about unrealistic conflict dynamics in the WWE. You're missing the point. It's a movie made for one prupose: to watch a guy in a sweater with knives on his fingers go toe-to-toe with a disgruntled goalie with a machete. And by the criteria, it satisfied.

Although I admit, the Jason Mewes wannabe and not-Beyonce were grating, especially when she was mocking Freddie. C'mon! As is often the case in these movies, the victims talked too much. Character development is imporant in other genres, but here, we don't care who you are, but how you die. The subplot with the heroine's father and boyfriend was also too drawn out and unnecessary.

Still, it was a masterpiece of the Dead Teenager genre. The best I've seen since the first Scream. The setup, how these two came together and why they're in conflict, was very well done, and both monsters had great characterisationa nd a proper amount of menace.

Was it scary? Not hardly.
Was it, in a general asthetic sense "good"? Eh. Maybe.
Was it entertaining? Hells yes!

As for the ending: It ended the only way it could. A draw, with enough so that partisans on both sides could claim victory. Me, I say Freddy won. He dominated, of couse, in the dreaming, and was holding his own in the physical plane until he was blown up, then distracted by, then finished off by the meddling kids. Jason, it should be noted, "died" without need of a third party delivering the coup de grace. Yes, he was in fewer pieces when the credits rolled, but Freddy's come back from worse.

Oh, and yes. There is gratuitous nudity which, of course, leads to certain death.

As for a sequel, Mike Myers, while scary as hell, is redundant with Jason around. Leatherface ain't nothing without the rest of his family (Did I see Michael "Armageddon" Bay's name attatched to the credits for the new TCM? Say it isn't so! I'm willing to tolerate cheese but even I have limits!). No. The sequel can only have one addition to the mix.

I think you know who I'm talking about.
Jason vs. Freddy

vs. Bruce Campbell.

That would be so sweet.

[Fibber McGee]

Non-Beyonce dissing the Fredster was annoying, though it did set up one of the biggest laughs in the film

Any, it's not bad acting or paper-thin plottage that bothered me, it's that Jason's murders and Freddy's dream sequences, the meat-and-potatoes of these two franchises, are for the first two-thirds of the film totally covered ground. Those first two acts of the film were boring and in a genre where bad acting and non-enistent plots are expected, being boring is the only real cime.

And you're totally right about the point of the movie, too bad so little of the film actually focused on that point.

Admittedly, and entire hour and a half of Freddy and Jason slugging it out would have gotten old fast, but that's no excuse for the first 2/3 being a boring retread.

[Fibber McGee]

As far as other movie maniacs horning in on the action is concerned, I actually had an idea for a film centering around a hell-based tournament of movie slashers, with almost the entire film focusing on what we wanna see: famous movie killers whuppin' on each other.

Each battleground would also be littered with the usual cannon-fodder, just to get some good ol' fashioned killin' in with our fight-night action.

Such a film could actually be pretty cool I think. It'd also make an awesome fighting game.

[Incubus]

I was a little disappointed, though there were some parts that I liked.

I didn't like the way Jason looked, I really wish they'd stuck with Kane Hodder. I didn't like the fact that Jason had this zombie-mullet thing going (since he didn't have any hair left in the latter Friday the 13th movies) and there was too much focus on his eyes. One thing I found Jason appealing was that he had a soulless appearance- you see his hockey mask but there are no visible eyes inside the eye holes, just darkness. This to me felt 'ghostly' while they way the made Jason in this movie was more 'zombie'.

I did like the fight scenes, especially the one in the Boiler Room where Freddy gave Jason a telekinetic pelvic thrust into the pipes. It would have been cool if they had shown Freddy seeking out Jason in hell, though.

[Hey, It's That Guy!]

Originally posted by Menocchio
The sequel can only have one addition to the mix.

I think you know who I'm talking about.
Jason vs. Freddy

vs. Bruce Campbell.

That would be so sweet.

I've actually heard a rumor this is already in the works: Ash vs. Freddy vs. Jason. But nothing is official, and Sam Raimi and Bruce Campbell haven't commented. I don't like horror/slasher/gore movies and won't bother with this F vs. J, but I'm a big Bruce Campbell mark, and even I would see that movie.

[levdrakon]

With a movie like this I really don't care about spoilers so does anyone feel like explaining to me how exactly freddy & Jason hook up?

How did they end up in the same neighborhood? Does Jason dream? Does Freddy come to the physical plane & encounter Jason?

I can see how Jason would want to kill Freddy, he wants to kill just about everybody he encounters. What made Freddy want to go after Jason? I thought Freddy liked to go after more or less innocent teenagers.

[Max Torque]

Well, levdrakon, I'll explain as best I can.

The movie opens with some exposition by Freddy. The gist is, Freddy was pissed because the Elm Street kids have forgotten him. And since no one fears him anymore, he's too weak to invade dreams and kill people.

So, somewhere in hell, Freddy finds Jason. Freddy resurrects Jason in the physical world (or, more likely, strikes a deal with his hosts to have Jason resurrected) to do some killin'. Freddy figures that the deaths will be blamed on him (Freddy), people will fear him again, and he'll then have the strength to do some murderin' of his own.

What made Freddy want to go after Jason is, Jason turned out to be a bit more difficult to control than he figured. Jason just keeps on killin' kids, which means that kills are being stolen from Freddy. So, Freddy realizes, he's gotta take this Jason feller out before there's no one left for him to kill.

Since "spoiler" is in the title, I didn't bother to put any of this in spoiler boxes. If someone comes into a thread with "spoiler" in the title and gets all huffy about spoilers therein, well, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

[El Elvis Rojo]

I actually saw a sneak preview of it last week, and I found it to be absolutely great!! I mean, yeah, the acting sucked, the plot was rather lame, and there really wasn't much to it, but I really liked the way they tied the two of them in together, and the fights between the two of them were absolutely awesome!

I admit, Freddy didn't do anything really fantastic, which made me a little sad. I did like the caterpillar bit, but I think it would have been perfect if, instead of just blowing a puff of smoke in his face, he blew out a word, like "Boo" or something. You know, to make the reference really hit home.

One of my favorite bits is that, after watching Jason wander around the rave hacking people apart, the kids jump in the van, hightale it out of there, and then just drop everyone off at home like it's not big deal. "Man, can you believe he just killed all those people while on FIRE? This is terrible...well, see you at school tomorrow!" What the fuck was THAT?!?!

I also love the whole bit with Jason's dream how they try to make Jason out to be a sympothetic "victim". Awww, poor baby was made fun of by the other kids for being a freak...his ruthless killing sprees really aren't his fault, we should help him." I was half expecting there to be a touching moment between Jason and the main chick where he saves her and doesn't kill her because he remembers her trying to help him in his dreams while he's drowning.

But in the end, the fight was a draw. Unless we go by points, in which case, Freddy kicked Jason's ass ten times till next Tuesday!

As for a sequel starring Ash, all I can say is "Ain't gonna happen!" Aside from the occassional video game voiceover, Bruce is done with the part of Ash. Do you really think Evil Dead 4 hasn't come out because there's not enough of a fan base? Nope! It's because Bruce is sick of being Ash. Go check out his website and read around, you'll see it plain as day.

[Anniee]

"As is often the case in these movies, the victims talked too much. Character development is imporant in other genres, but here, we don't care who you are, but how you die."

And that is the genius of the Final Destination movies! :)

[Cat Fight]

I thought the whole "talking too much" was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek. Maybe I'm reading too much into the movie (which I loved- it wasn't amazing, more violent than scary, but just as I expected it to be), but everyone was laughing out loud when the kids were sitting around, figuring out what happened ("Gosh, Freddy must have sent Jason to Elm Street to kill for him, etc." plus the aforementioned water and fire bit). And while I really don't care for horror flic nudity, that over-the-top naked chick at the beginning was classic! And the scene where Kia is about to give Jason mouth-to-mouth? Who came up with that one?
Favourite line, by far,

That goalie was pissed!

[Cormac36]

Did anyone else notice the amazing adjustable cleavage of the main female character? In some shots they are one size, in the next seen they are either larger or smaller. No rhyme or reason.

All in all it was a great movie. Better than I expected actually.

[Gozu Tashoya]

Draw? What's all this talk of a draw? Much as I wanted Fred to win, IIRC he really had no chance in hell at the end.

As I remember it, by the end of the fight he had been literally diarmed and had gotten impaled by his own claws and arm. The only reason the kids delivered the finishing blow was because Jason decided to go for a swim and let the kids have the glory.

Way I see it, if we're going by style points then Freddy wins hands down. If we're going by "most body parts still attached to your body at the end of the fight" Jason wins by two arms, two hands, and six fingers.

Of course it would've all been a moot point if Freddy didn't spend so much time dicking around when Jason was snoozin'.

[shy guy]

At the risk of being too much of a horror fanboy...

... that movie fucking owned.

I loved the tounge-in-cheek opening with the girl skinny dipping. In fact, I thought this movie poked fun at itself a lot with the stereotypical characters (nerdy guy, ghetto girl, stoner) and situations (rave in the middle of a cornfield), and I absolutely loved it.

About all I wanted from this movie was for it to earn its R rating with some cool, gory teen deaths (folding bed! flaming jason rave slaughter!!) and a brutal throwdown between the two stars, and I got everything I wanted and then some. Damn but that was cool. Easily the most fun movie I've seen all summer.

And Jason won, so nyeh ;)

[Max Torque]

Damn straight, Jason won!

My favorite line: Freddy's frustrated, "Why won't you DIE?!"

[levdrakon]

Originally posted by Max Torque
Well, levdrakon, I'll explain as best I can.

The movie opens with some exposition by Freddy. The gist is, Freddy was pissed because the Elm Street kids have forgotten him. And since no one fears him anymore, he's too weak to invade dreams and kill people.

Thanks!

But isn't that kinda lame? In the first Freddy movie, I'm assuming no one even knew who he was 'til he started killing, right? Why do kids have to fear him first?

Anyway, I wanna see the suped-up Jason X some more. That was cool.

[Fibber McGee]

Originally posted by levdrakon


But isn't that kinda lame? In the first Freddy movie, I'm assuming no one even knew who he was 'til he started killing, right? Why do kids have to fear him first?



Don't go down that route, otherwise you might start asking questions like why a guy who murdered young children when he was alive chooses to only enter the dreams of teenagers.

It isn't meant to make sense, just go with it . . .

[RandMcnally]

If anyone doesn't mind telling me, what is the backstory behind the two characters? I've never seen any of the movies, so could someone clue me in?

Thanks.

[levdrakon]

Originally posted by Fibber McGee
Don't go down that route, otherwise you might start asking questions like why a guy who murdered young children when he was alive chooses to only enter the dreams of teenagers.

It isn't meant to make sense, just go with it . . .

But I know the answer to that one! Wasn't he getting revenge on the parents who had found about what he was doing and killed him? I think he was pissed cause they kept it secret or something. So he started killing their kids.

[Menocchio]

The movie did a decent job at recapping both histories, I thought. Both backstories have been complicated by revelations in sequels that are ignored by subsequent sequels, so I'll just give you the bare bones version.

Jason was a rather deformed kid that drowned when his camp consuelors were too busy partying to supervise him and the other kids. His mother was killed after she went on a killing spree against pot-smoking oversexed teenagers. He then rose from the grave (and grew into the mammoth we know and love) for revenge against teenagers in general when they dare to approach his camp. He's super-strong and can't be permanantly killed, wheich is why Freddy used him, since he can come back from pretty much anything.

Freddy Kreuger was a child murder that was arrested, and then released on a technicality. The local parents took matters into tehir own hands, and burned him alive. He came back to murder their children in their dreams. In dreams, he's more or less omnipotent, but is somewhat vulnerable to lucid dreaming techniques or other psuedo-psychological mumbo-jumbo type stuff. He can also be pulled into waking reality by a sleeper holding him while being awakened, and is a tough, but ultimately defeatable person.

Anyway, I saw the match must be called on account of interference. I say Freddy was winning before the propane tank blew and he turned his back on Jason to deal with the kids. Remember Jason collapsed ("died", I think, as much as Jason can die) after only what Freddy did to him, Freddy needed the kids to finish him off, and still got the last wink.

[Revtim]

I agree with Max Torque; "spoiler" is in the title, you have been warned.

I think I'd give the battle to Jason. It was over before the girl made her coup de grace; Freddy had lost. He had been impaled with his own arm. That's gotta be a win on points, if anything.

Ah, but Jason was hacked with own machete, you might say. He wasn't hacked to point of being "killed" though, which I think Freddy was (as much as either of them get killed).

Even if the girl wasn't there, Jason would have come back in better shape than Freddy, and took him apart.

[Revtim]

Originally posted by Menocchio
Jason was a rather deformed kid that drowned when his camp consuelors were too busy partying to supervise him and the other kids. His mother was killed after she went on a killing spree against pot-smoking oversexed teenagers. He then rose from the grave (and grew into the mammoth we know and love) for revenge against teenagers in general when they dare to approach his camp. Did he rise from the grave then? I though he had not quite drowned as a kid, and grew up in the woods.

I could be wrong, this is how I remember it being explained in part 2, but it was very long time ago that I saw it.

[Alzarian]

So does Freddy vs. Jason make up the official count of the two series? In other words, is this movie both:

Nightmare on Elm Street VIII: Freddy vs. Jason

and

Friday the 13th Part XI: Freddy vs. Jason

This is important to know, as the next Jason movie for example will either be considered the 11th or 12th movie in the series, and I'm sure something cool is cooking for Friday the 13th Part XIII, and I just want to know if i have to sit through one or two more movies to get to it...

[MeanOldLady]

Haven't seen the movie, but am I the only one thinking it's about 15 years too late? All of the teens who cared about these movies in the 80s have lost interest long, long ago. I would have seen this movie in half a heart-beat in 1989. Now the only way I'd watch it if it were on HBO and I were with a group of friends with whom I could trash talk the movie... after some serious drinking.

[shy guy]

Haven't seen the movie, but am I the only one thinking it's about 15 years too late? All of the teens who cared about these movies in the 80s have lost interest long, long ago. It was #1 at the box office this weekend, so it was apperantly not too late.

[HPL]

Does it really matter who won? It's quite obvious that no matter who "dies", both will be back in their respective sequels. Both have died so many times (8 times for freddy, 11 times for Jason) and come back that to assume either is down for the count is stupid.

The only question is: Who will kill each dumb teenager and how?

Having seen bits of both series, I've always liked freddy a little bit more. You don't have to be stupid to be killed in a NIGHTMARE movie, just fall asleep(and everyone has to eventually). FRIDAY movies seems to be more of the Stupid Teens who have sex and go swimming in the middle of the night (or should I watch more?).

That and Freddy kills people in Amusing and occasionally disturbing ways. Cheesy, sure, but etertaining.


Actually, I've love to see Ash vs. Freddy vs. Jason, but I know it would never happen.

[Tars Tarkas]

This movie made more money this weekend than the last chapters of each of the franchises did their entire run combined!!!


And it Ruled!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My theater was 40% kids, and everyone was cheering during the kills, and people were yelling at the screen at the moron heroines! Plus, during the final scene where Jason emerges from the lake with Freddy's head, the crowd was out of their seats cheering, and went even crazier when Freddy winked! One of the most enjoyable theater experiences since Star Wars 2 opening night!

[BwanaBob]

My favorite part was when the movie doors were locked, the theatre was hermetically sealed, and the gas was pumped in.

No more movie goers - no more sequels to dreck movies.:D

[Fibber McGee]

Originally posted by levdrakon
But I know the answer to that one! Wasn't he getting revenge on the parents who had found about what he was doing and killed him? I think he was pissed cause they kept it secret or something. So he started killing their kids.

Well yeah, but he killed all of them off a long time ago. So why is he still going after teenagers?

[Fibber McGee]

Originally posted by BwanaBob
My favorite part was when the movie doors were locked, the theatre was hermetically sealed, and the gas was pumped in.

No more movie goers - no more sequels to dreck movies.:D

Right, because being forced at gunpoint to watch dreck movies must be such a bitch for you. ;)

[Max Torque]

Originally posted by Fibber McGee
Well yeah, but he killed all of them off a long time ago. So why is he still going after teenagers?

As luck would have it, I reviewed all the Nightmare on Elm Street movies last Halloween (the reviews are still in my LJ) in very in-depth fashion, and they're still fairly fresh in my mind, so I feel qualified to comment on this. But, this isn't what the "spoiler" in the subject line is for, so I reckon I'll box it.

In Part 1, Freddy was going after the kids of the adults who killed him. Plain and simple, it was revenge. He's pretty much doing the same thing in Part 2, with the added twist that he's trying to be reborn into the physical world by possessing the body of a strangely effeminate teenage boy.

So, by Part 3, there's only a handful of "Elm Street kids" left. Luckily, one of them is Kristen, who has the ability to pull other people into her dreams. Thus, the remaining kids can whup up on Freddy as a group. In Part 4, however, this works against them; Kristen pulls her friend Alice into her dream when she (Kristen) gets killed. Her power passes to Alice, who Freddy then uses as a vessel to pull in and kill more kids.

You'd figure by Part 5 people would've stopped hanging out with Alice, but they haven't. This is the one where Alice gets pregnant and Freddy uses her unborn child's dreaming to kill people even while Alice is awake. Man, are they stretchin'. And Part 6 is just a total mess; they make up yet another Elm Street kid, the ability to pull others into your dreams is apparently commonplace, Freddy gets his powers from some weird skele-sperms, there's this whole thing with Freddy's daughter... it's just awful. Part 7 is kind of an aberration that doesn't fit into the regular chronology very neatly (kinda like Jason X, but it's better than any of the other Nightmare sequels, IMHO.

Anyway, Freddy's killing began with limitations, but they've played so fast and loose with those limitations that now pretty well anyone is fair game. The old rules no longer apply, and no one really seems to care. Frankly, that's fine by me; the more they try to concoct some scheme to stick to the rules, the more of a mess the movie seems to be.

As for why he goes after teenagers rather than little kids, here's the scoop as I see it: Freddy, as we know, was a serial killer during his life. While alive, he apparently killed very young children, probably because they were easy targets. After his death, he preyed upon teenagers simply because that was how old the Elm Street kids (that is, the children of the Elm Street parents who killed Freddy) were at the time he was able to come back. And he's stuck with teenagers (mostly) ever since. Odds are, he figured out that teenagers are more fun to kill, and they're just as easy to kill when you're a dream-demon as little kids are when you're alive. So, he goes after teens now.

[cbawlmer]

Cat Fight, I totally agree with what you said. The talking-too-much part was vital to the movie, because it's a direct parody of all those other movies. My husband and I nearly choked from laughter when the female lead got to the line about how things had been like this "ever since my mom died". Of COURSE her mom died! She wouldn't be allowed into the film without meeting that criterion.

And yes, the goalie line was really funny.

The idea that they were going to give Jason mouth-to-mouth was hysterical, as was the fact that their plan included duct-taping Jason down, putting him in their van, and taking a little road trip. That's one I haven't seen before. :)

[shy guy]

My theater was 40% kids, and everyone was cheering during the kills, and people were yelling at the screen at the moron heroines! Plus, during the final scene where Jason emerges from the lake with Freddy's head, the crowd was out of their seats cheering, and went even crazier when Freddy winked! One of the most enjoyable theater experiences since Star Wars 2 opening night! I know! It was the same in my theater.

The audience literally erupted with laughter when the scene with the skinny dipping girl came on, and everytime the teens did something stereotypically horror movie-esque. There were gasps and screams when someone got hacked to bits, and tons of cheering when Freddy and Jason finally fought. It was a great experience.

I only wish I could have seen this movie when I was like, 10. Because as much as I love it now, back then it would have been hands down the coolest thing on the face of the planet ever.

[Fibber McGee]

Originally posted by Max Torque
As for why he goes after teenagers rather than little kids, here's the scoop as I see it: Freddy, as we know, was a serial killer during his life. While alive, he apparently killed very young children, probably because they were easy targets. After his death, he preyed upon teenagers simply because that was how old the Elm Street kids (that is, the children of the Elm Street parents who killed Freddy) were at the time he was able to come back. And he's stuck with teenagers (mostly) ever since. Odds are, he figured out that teenagers are more fun to kill, and they're just as easy to kill when you're a dream-demon as little kids are when you're alive. So, he goes after teens now.

But that's not how most serial killers work. I don't believe for a second that Freddy targeted young children because they were easy targets or would change his entire M.O. purely for the sake of convenience.

Freddy kills teenagers because teens are always the targets in movies like this, simple as that. You can try to apply logic to it as you've done, but it falls apart with even a cursory examination because slasher movies have never made sense, with the longer franchises having nothing in the way of consistent logic or continuity. For me, it helps to think of each film as an entirely seperate entity that just happens to feature characters that have appeared previously in other films.

And oh yeah, there was a Nightmare on Elm Street part 2? I always thought they skipped right to part three . . . :p

[Max Torque]

Originally posted by Fibber McGee
And oh yeah, there was a Nightmare on Elm Street part 2? I always thought they skipped right to part three . . .
A common misconception! Having sat through and analyzed all of the Nightmare movies thoroughly, I can say definitively that Part 2 is not the worst in the series. That dubious honor belongs to Part 6. As I put it in my review of Part 6:
I'd forgotten just how bad this movie sucked. It more than sucks, it creates its own field of suck. Other movies that don't normally suck begin to suck when placed too close to this one. And it sucks more than other movies that would otherwise suck equally, because this one sucks in three dimensions.

Part 4 was bad, but you didn't have to prevent people from seeing it. Part 5 was so bad that you should actively prevent people from seeing it. Part 6, this one, is so bad that you should kill people who express intent to see it, because clearly such people have no regard for their own health or sanity, and are very likely too stupid to live.
However, I do find it very odd, in retrospect, to see just how much blatant homoerotic imagery there is in Part 2. You have to wonder what they were thinking. Someone was on a mission, methinks; it can't be an accident.

[Fibber McGee]

It's true, part 2 isn't totally irredeemable. Although it all but abandons the dream sequence killings that are the heart of the series, that bit at the beginning with the school bus teetering on a rock spire over a pit of fire was pretty damn cool and right up there with the best dream sequences of the entire series.

[Odinoneeye]

Was New Nightmare #7?

The genius of that one was that it really understood the audience. Instead of a teenager trying to save themself and their friends, it was a mother trying to save her baby.

I saw the original when I was a teenager and New Nightmare came out when my son was about 4 months old. It really hit home how Wes Craven knew where his original audience would be.

[erislover]

I thought this movie was a riot. It was pretty much exactly what I expected it to be, except I figured out the entire plot about ten minutes into the movie and didn't need it explained to me by four seperate characters. Still, I wasn't expecting an intellectual screenplay, just mayhem. Well worth the admission price in my book.

And IMO Jason thought he was pulling his mother's head out at the end, we knew it was Freddy, though...

[Hamlet]

Quick question to anybody who wants to help out an one-time fan. What is the scoop with Jason? I vaguely remember the killer was his Mom, and then him, and then some other kid he possessed, and then..... well, they lost me. Now, I know logical coherence and internal consistency are a lot to ask from this particular genre, but could somebody let me know who Jason is, what his backstory is, and how is it that he is nigh buy indestructable? Thanks.

Hamlet, who saw Elm Street and Dream Warrior in the theater way back when.

[levdrakon]

Originally posted by Max Torque
However, I do find it very odd, in retrospect, to see just how much blatant homoerotic imagery there is in Part 2. You have to wonder what they were thinking. Someone was on a mission, methinks; it can't be an accident.

Can't remember if I ever saw Part 2. Of what homoerotic imagery are you speaking?

Yeah I saw Freddy vs. Jason yesterday - didn't think I was going to but a buddy wanted to check out a newly remodeled theater. What a fun movie!

[cbawlmer]

This review from the always-hilarious X-Entertainment site will explain all you need to know about the homoeroticism (and homophobia) of NoES, Part 2: Freddy's Revenge:

http://www.x-entertainment.com/articles/0774/index.html

Enjoy!

[Zebra]

So is this basically the American version of Godzilla Vs. Mothra?

I like the fact that they brought the T and A back. Big time.

I liked when not-Beyonce was ragging on Freddy, especially the end of that bit.

[Max Torque]

Originally posted by levdrakon
Can't remember if I ever saw Part 2. Of what homoerotic imagery are you speaking?
I better box this, just in case:


The lead character has the gender-neutral name "Jesse", and he screams like a girl. A lot.
Close-ups of Jesse's pelvis as he butt-bumps his drawers closed during the "unpacking" montage. He also does a "yankin' my crank" dance step during this.
Exchange between Jesse and his close friend Grady (who we see more of in the movie than Jesse's girlfriend): "Do you remember your dreams?" "Only the wet ones."
Yet another exchange: Jesse - "Something is trying to get inside my body." Grady - "Yeah, she's female and she's waiting for you in the cabana. And you wanna sleep with me."
And then there's the major stuff, like the scene where Jesse wanders away from home at night, winds up in a "leather bar", and is caught there by his coach. Coach appears to be a regular.
Right after that, Coach gets killed. Here's how: some jump ropes drag him into the shower and tie him to the pipes. He is then stripped naked, and wet towels whip his pasty middle-aged male ass (with close-ups) before Freddy gives him the glove.
In total, there are two shots of male ass (Grady pulls down Jesse's pants during a baseball game. Oh that kid!), and no breasts.

Stuff like that. I didn't really pay much attention the first time I saw it, when I was like 13, but watching it again now...yikes. Not the usual way a slasher film is made.

[Silentgoldfish]

Originally posted by Odinoneeye
Was New Nightmare #7?

The genius of that one was that it really understood the audience. Instead of a teenager trying to save themself and their friends, it was a mother trying to save her baby.

I saw the original when I was a teenager and New Nightmare came out when my son was about 4 months old. It really hit home how Wes Craven knew where his original audience would be.

Yup. It was a very good movie, I think. It really overcame the source material in a very Blair Witch-ey way, and was IMO better than the first one (and all the others, since everyone says they're worse; I've only seen Part 1).

Originally posted by Hamlet
Quick question to anybody who wants to help out an one-time fan. What is the scoop with Jason? I vaguely remember the killer was his Mom, and then him, and then some other kid he possessed, and then..... well, they lost me. Now, I know logical coherence and internal consistency are a lot to ask from this particular genre, but could somebody let me know who Jason is, what his backstory is, and how is it that he is nigh buy indestructable? Thanks.

Hamlet, who saw Elm Street and Dream Warrior in the theater way back when.

As far as I know from websites read out of curiosity, when I realised I've never actually seen a Friday the 13th movie: In the first movie his mother's doing the killing cause she thinks he was drownded, in the 2nd he wasn't really waterlogged and kills everyone that killed his mum. 3 and 4 are similiar and in 4 he's killed as well. In 5 there's an imposter, I'm not too sure about that one since all the websites pretend it never existed. In 6 he's brought back to life as a zombie, so his indrestructibility from there on out is because he's undead.