gimme the SD on the Atkins diet

[jormundgondir]

I'm looking for horse's mouth info on Atkins- people who have tried it and had results, be they good, bad, or ugly-- anecdotal warnings about how your wife's brother's housekeeper's hairstylist ate 80 devilled eggs and four pounds of bacon a day on it and developed heart disease are discouraged; i'm looking for critique and commentary on a realistically "healthy" approach of fish and veggies and eggs and stuff.

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

http://www.animalrights.net/articles/2003/000165.html

This cites an April 2003 study of Atkins in JAMA, which says basically that it works by restricting calorie content. I went to the JAMA website, but you have to pay bucks for the actual text of the article. But that was their conclusion.

[newcrasher]

I have been on it since January 1, 2003 and I have lost 45 pounds. I have about 15 pounds to go, but Atkins encourages you to lose the last bit slowly.

It works for me and my cholesterol has IMPROVED in every way.

The examples in the OP would not be things you would do if you were following Atkins.

If you are looking for critique and commentary you should probably have put this in GD or IMHO, and not here. This forum is for questions with factual answers like 7, New Mexico, green, Walter Raleigh, and 1812.

[ultrafilter]

If you want the SD on Atkins, you should read the Atkins book. There's a lot more detail than most soundbites will give you.

I haven't seen the text of the AMA study, but there's research dating back to at least 1981 demonstrating that total caloric intake is not the only factor in body mass/composition changes. Read this article (http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/leaneating_1.htm) (part 2 (http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/leaneating_2.htm)) for more details. As a high-protein diet, Atkins definitely takes advantage of the high cost of digesting protein, and for many people, there's more to it.

[jormundgondir]

Yeah, I have the book and glossed through it last night-- I just want to take what Mr Atkins himself says with a box of salt. After browsing the web for real data, I guess you're right that there still isn't any definitive factual answer, good or bad, that I can be asking for, so IMHO is where it should be.

So far it seems like there is proven data that it is good in the short term; what I could use more of is data, even anecdotal, on long-term effects, especially from people who wholly abandon the diet after awhile, or go softcore. Thanks for the info thus far!

[ski]

I only did the "induction" phase (2 weeks long), and lost about 4 pounds. Since then I have lost another 5 or so. I run a lot, too, though. That's really all I wanted to lose though, maybe a little more.

It worked, but it sucked. Especially trying to run during those two weeks, with low carb intake and high energy requirements! I always felt hungry.

Now, I've adopted a more reasonable plan (to me, anyway) of keeping my carb intake relatively low (maybe 30-40 % of the US RDA) and running a lot. I feel a lot better and am still losing weight.

[panache45]

I've been on Atkins since January. I've lost about 35 pounds and 5 pants sizes. I've reached my ideal weight, and am now on the "maintenance" level.

I have type 2 diabetes, and my blood sugar had been 200-300 before the diet. Now it's 100-120 (normal) and steady. I no longer have to take insulin. My blood pressure is normal now, and my cholesterol is still a little high, but less than half what it used to be. And I have more energy than I've had in years.

But the most amazing thing is that I no longer have cravings and binges, like I always did. This was not true for any other diet I've ever been on.

I wouldn't advise going on this diet without reading the book. You can't just start eating all the steaks and bacon you want; you also have to exercise and take lots of supplements. Plus, there are 4 stages of the diet, and too many people stay on the first stage, lose the weight, then go off the diet entirely, and gain back the weight and then some. It's not a diet that you go "off;" rather, in time, you work your way up through the levels, adding more carbs, and stay at "maintenance" and your ideal weight, for the rest of your life.

It's not a diet to screw around with, but if you do it intelligently, it can literally save your life.

[Live Better Electrically!]

I'm reviving this two-weeks old thread because I just found it. As you can tell by my registration date and post count, I'm a very occasional contributor to the STMB. Anyway, here's my testimonial:

I was clinically obese and went on the Atkins diet in 2002. I lost 61 pounds, and now I weigh less than I did as a senior in high school (I'm in my thirties). I'm actually skinny now, and it has been amazing to see how differently I'm treated by strangers. Overweight people face a lot of prejudice.

I was attracted to Atkins because diabetes runs in my family, and low-carb diets are necessarily low-sugar diets. Low fat diets failed for me in the past because I was always hungry, but Atkins allowed me to learn portion control without suffering from nagging hunger by satisfying my appetite with fats.

I have maintained my current weight for nearly a year, and I know that I won't gain it back. I feel a complete sense of control over my weight that I have never known before. I still avoid sugar and high-carb food most of the time, but I eat what I want in reasonable quantities. I believe that portion control is the key, and Atkins was the method that got me there.

[antechinus]

Pass on the anecdotes.

You will hear much argument for and against these sort of diets. IMHO a balanced diet and exercise is the healthiest.

I have read articles saying that although the Atkins diet can lead to dramatic weight loss, it can lead to kidney disease, heart attacks, cancer and brittle bones.

From Nutrition Australia (http://www.nutritionaustralia.org/Food_Facts/FAQ/popular_diets_p1_high_protein.asp), who I consider to be fair and balanced.


It would probably be fair to say that the safety and effectiveness of the Atkins Diet may be best described as 'unresolved'.

However, until convincing evidence becomes available from well-designed and long-term trials, the imbalance of protein, fat and carbohydrate in the Atkins Diet, and its lack of dietary fibre, mean that it would not be appropriate to recommend this diet.


For guidelines on sensible, healthy eating: NHMRC (http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/publications/synopses/dietsyn.htm)

Advice from Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (http://www.atkinsdietalert.org/)

[Live Better Electrically!]

I have read articles saying that although the Atkins diet can lead to dramatic weight loss, it can lead to kidney disease, heart attacks, cancer and brittle bones.

I'd like to see documented cases in which that has happened--I don't believe there are any. The problem with critics of the Atkins diet is that they chronically misrepresent it. For example, there is no lack of dietary fiber as your citation claims. The average American diet is imbalanced because of the overload of refined carbohydrates. The bottom line is, being overweight for life is far more unhealthy than going on the Atkins diet for a while.

[RyanV]

Restricting your body and brain's most useful energy source isn't the way to go. Why are most of the people on Atkin's losing so much weight? Because they ate like S**T beforehand. They have a lot of weight to lose! Now when you drop the McDonald's before bedtime, the chips before bedtime, the soda's etc. etc. etc. of COURSE you will lose fat! And most people on diet's tend to do more physical activity, contributing to more fat loss.

All I'm saying is don't get so caught up in the Atkin's diet. The key to SUCCESSFUL weightloss is not supressing your insulin, but keeping it steady. Carb's stimulate your insulin production, so you can't tell me ~20 grams of carbs daily is enough to keep it steady. No way.

The way the Atkin's diet produces results is so basic it makes me laugh when someone praises it. But then again I envy all the $$$ the promoters have made from it.

[Live Better Electrically!]

Why are most of the people on Atkin's losing so much weight? Because they ate like S**T beforehand.

I disagree, based on my own experience. I ate very healthy foods before losing weight with Atkins, but I ate too much of them. I stopped going to fast food restaurants for a long time (after reading The McDonaldization of Society and Making Fast Food), and haven't had a soft drink in over a decade. Different diets work for different people. Zorba Paster, the Wisconson Public Radio physician and radio host, was once an ardent low-fat diet booster, but on the basis of recent research acknowledged that low carb diets work well for some people, and more power to them. In the face of an obesity epidemic in America, why knock "basic" results, if they are indeed results?

[bibliophage]

Originally posted by jormundgondir
I guess you're right that there still isn't any definitive factual answer, good or bad, that I can be asking for, so IMHO is where it should be. Then I'll move this thread to IMHO. Sorry for the delay.

bibliophage
moderator GQ

[Agback]

G'day

I haven't been on the Atkins diet, but on a somewhat less extreme low-carbohydrate diet described in the book Protein Power by Eades & Eades. I am writing in the hoe that you will find my experience useful anyway.

I used to weigh 127 kg. My waist was 47". My blood pressure was moderately elevated, cholesterol 6.8 mmol/l, and my liver enzymes were elevated (the result of fatty change in my liver). I tried a conventional low-fat high-complex-carbohydrate diet and moderate exercise. I was often hungry, craved sweet and starchy foods, and found it more than I could manage to stick to the diet. In two years I lost 10kg.

Then I tried the low-carb diet, plus a course of chromium supplements. I got to eat food I like. I was never hungry. I ceased to crave sweet and starchy foods. I dropped 9kg in the first fortnight, and a little under 1kg/week after that. My blood pressure and cholesterol are now normal, and my liver enzymes are now normal (indicating a reversal of the fatty liver I previously suffered). I don't know what my LDL:HDL ratio was, but now it is a healthy 3.0. I had a kidney function test in case the high protein diet threatened my kidneys, but my kidney function has remained perfectly healthy. Now I have a 36" waist and according to the blood tests I'm as healthy as a horse. Today I spent several hours in menswear stores buying a new outfit in size M. Tomorrow my XXL stuff goes to the Salvation Army.

By the way, my diet has not been short of dietary fibre. Aside from my daily ration of protein I have been eating mostly green leafy vegetables. Lettuce, rocket, cabbage, bok choy, choy sum, silverbeet, and spinach are all low-carb, as are broccoli, pumpkin, cauliflower, cucumber, and celery.

Who can say whether this diet worked by lowering my insulin and raising my glucagon, thus signalling my adipose tissue to release rather than storing fat and switching my biologically active tissue over to a fat-burning metabolism, or by reducing my energy intake? I think it probably lowered my energy intake by means of the endocrinological and metabolic changes. But who cares? It was easy, it was satisfying, it is proved to have been healthy, and it worked spectacularly.

Regards,


Agback

[Morgainelf]

I'm a very, very newbie to Atkins. I started last Tuesday (8/26) and have lost 7 lbs so far. I didn't eat like total "crap" before, (very little fast food, chips, candy, etc.) I did eat larger portions than I should, and I don't exercise. I started with about 40 lbs to lose.

So far, I basically don't care whether Atkins is working because I'm eating fewer calories, or if it's because I've kicked into "ketosis" as Atkins claims. It doesn't matter to me. I'm eating much less because my appetite is under control. The food I'm eating is satisfying, and I haven't had any processed food in a week. I can't imagine that skipping the bread with my sandwich and eating more leafy greens to make up for it is unhealthy. I haven't added more fat to my diet. I'm probably eating a bit more protein rather than pasta. I'm also being vigilant in taking a multi vitamin, plus extra vitamins C and E.

I just hope the weight loss continues. But truly, I'm feeling very good, have gotten past the lack of energy I had the first few days, and feel that this is something that I can stick with.

[DeadlyAccurate]

Originally posted by RyanV
[B]Restricting your body and brain's most useful energy source isn't the way to go.

It's not the only source of energy your body uses, nor is it necessarily the best. If you're overweight, you want your body to use your fat stores, not the carbohydrates you ingest.

Why are most of the people on Atkin's losing so much weight? Because they ate like S**T beforehand. They have a lot of weight to lose! Now when you drop the McDonald's before bedtime, the chips before bedtime, the soda's etc. etc. etc. of COURSE you will lose fat!

Yes, you're correct, but you're underestimating the ability of low carb diets to ELIMINATE cravings for those foods.

And most people on diet's tend to do more physical activity, contributing to more fat loss.

Incorrect. I do 6 hours of exercise a week and have for 7 years. I've lost 37 lbs since Jan 1.

All I'm saying is don't get so caught up in the Atkin's diet. The key to SUCCESSFUL weightloss is not supressing your insulin, but keeping it steady. Carb's stimulate your insulin production, so you can't tell me ~20 grams of carbs daily is enough to keep it steady. No way.

Yes and no. The low carb diets do keep your insulin steady, which is the key to successful weight loss. As you said, carbs stimulate your insulin production. High carb foods spike it, causing you to crave more carbs, feel false hunger pains, and eat more than you should. Good low carb foods like vegetables keep it steady. And the ~20 grams of carbs is only during induction. It helps you flush the carbs from your system so you can stop the cravings. My breakfast this morning was a very high fiber hot cereal (12 carbs per serving, 10 of which were fiber, for a net of 2 carbs which actually affect your blood sugar). I had to stop and think if I even ate breakfast this morning, because I just don't think about food all the time any more.

The way the Atkin's diet produces results is so basic it makes me laugh when someone praises it. But then again I envy all the $$$ the promoters have made from it.

The fact is, it does produce results, and it does it in a way no other diet I've tried has: eat whenever I'm hungry; no cravings; no false hunger pains (except during TOM, but that's the exception rather than the rule now); steady weight loss; no apparent loss of muscle (for the first time in my life, I can do a push-up); and less concern overall about food.

[DeadlyAccurate]

Oh, and to cover a point you might bring up when I point out that I can now do a push-up, at 19 I weighed 115 lbs and couldn't have done a push-up to save my life. Now (age 29) at 157, I can do one (a real one, not on my knees). I'm female, in case that wasn't obvious.

My husband has also been on the diet and he can now do 15 push-ups, more than he's ever been able to do in his life.

[lachesis]

the myths that Atkins relies on portion controls are pretty much a crock.

i've been on Atkins since about the beginning of June, when my mom came to visit and gave me a copy of the book. during the Induction phase i lost at least 5 pounds. to date, it looks like i'm down about 17 total since then. my husband willingly joined me on the program, and has made major advances also.

our basic program is reducing the carbs. period. portion control? you joke.

we eat meats that are prepared in appropriate ways: broiled, baked, occasionally fried. if breaded, it's using a mix of the Atkins Bake Mix and an equal portion of seasoned bread crumbs, plus herbal seasonings. veggies are buttered (or soft-margarined, actually--squeeze-soft margarines are nearly as low on carbs as butter) and seasoned; we've never been big on sauces there. cheese, eggs, bacon... << sings >> Heaven, I'm in Heaven.... this is a terrific plan for natural carnivores like myself.

what we HAVE dropped are all the starchy sides -- no more potatoes, rices, pastas, breads. when i initially read about the diet, i was sure that part would kill me. i loooooove rice; mashed potatoes are always yummy; bread is my "comfort food". i was just amazed at how quickly they came to mean nothing to me anymore; no cravings, no big temptations when i'm shopping.

the change in shopping habits, however, is a headache at times. now i have to read all the labels to figure out the carb load on anything i haven't already re-incorporated into the new lifestyle (and it is going to be a LIFESTYLE. people need to stop thinking of it as a diet). that, and buying some of the specially-formulated low-carb products (which of course equate to "more expensive than regular off-the-shelf versions"), whether they're under the Atkins label or any other "low-carb friendly" makers. thank Og some of the local grocery stores are starting to put low-carb sections in now, in addition to their Natural/Organic stuff.

IF we eat less, it's because we're satisfied by the amount and things we are eating -- NOT because we're only allowed "so much". i simply don't last on deprivation-based diets.

i have a desk job that's quite sedentary, although caring for our horses helps offset that a fair amount. my husband is similarly deskbound, but his energy levels have gone up enough that he's actually using his workout equipment down in the basement (after all this time).

i try to keep from evangelizing about the Atkins plan, simply so i don't annoy everyone. but i'd heartily recommend it as a means of getting control over your weight and probably your overall health.

[ZipperJJ]

Since you're asking for anecdotes I'll chime in. I'm sick of "fighting" with the uninformed about Atkins so I'll just post my personal experience.

I'm 24 year old woman and weighed 315 lbs this February. I've been doing Atkins since then, exercising regularly, eating a completely balanced diet (including whole grains and fruits, thx) and I have lost 65 lbs in 6 months. I'm now "thinner" than I have been in 6 years.

My blood pressure is still 120/74 (it was always good). My cholesterol had never been checked until about 2 months into Atkins and it was slightly high then. However I've been told by both my support group (check out www.talkinglowcarb.com ) and my doctor himself and it's also in the Atkins book that it takes about 6 months for cholesterol levels to normalize.

If you want more anecdotes from people who have actually been on Atkins and other low-carb lifestyle plans for a good while, check out the message board I linked to above. Also see the personal story of the woman who runs www.lowcarbluxury.com - she has been on Atkins for over 4 years now and says her new way of eating has saved her life for sure.

[Live Better Electrically!]

our basic program is reducing the carbs. period. portion control? you joke.

I know that carb reduction alone can accomplish weight loss to a point, but my friends who have tried this approach invariably hit a plateau well shy of their ideal weight. A common but erroneous claim is that Atkins is an all-you-can eat diet, but Atkins himself didn't promote that view, and the multi-phase diet he created ultimately leads to a portion-controlled, moderate carb diet.

Reaching a point where you can eat less and be satisfied with eating less is definitely a process of acclimatization, and I know from experience that Atkins can facilitate that process. But I think dieters have to see that eating less food than they did before--not just different food--is the overarching goal, otherwise I doubt their ability to lose the weight and keep it off.

[Laurasia]

My mom did the Atkins thing (and just about every other fad diet that I can think of). She was on it for just a few months and lost about 20 pounds. She was thrilled, until she ended up in the hospital after collapsing in her office after her aerobics class. She was kept in the hospital overnight because her heart was beating irregularly and she was dizzy, but basically she was okay (though it was quite frightening for all of us). The doctors simply observed, but never really gave us any answers. We have no idea if the Atkins diet had anything to do with it, but she dropped the diet right after that and gained the weight back. Eventually, she moved onto The Zone diet, which takes a lot of work but seems to be more balanced. While on the zone she has lost more than she did on Atkins. My mom's an active woman who, in her mid fifties, walks in the morning and takes exercise classes at the gym of the university where she works during many of her lunches (keeping right along side 20 year old college students too!). The heart thing could have been, and probably was, totally unrelated to Atkins, but it was enough that she stopped.
As for me, I'm a vegetarian and I think I would simply starve on Atkins! No thanks for me, I'd rather just try to eat healthy and exercise regularly.

[antechinus]

Originally posted by Live Better Electrically!
I'd like to see documented cases in which that has happened--I don't believe there are any.
Sure, from a quick google, I found here (http://www.sundayherald.com/36238).

Recently the government-funded Medical Research Council condemned the diet as 'pseudo science'; and claimed it could lead to kidney damage in some people.


I am thinking of promoting the AnTeChINuS diet: spiders, insects, lizards and worms - and baby wrens on Sundays.

Could be some money in it.

[FairyChatMom]

I considered and rejected Atkins in favor or the South Beach diet. Atkins struck me as more extreme than I was willing to follow, and I watched some friends and family members flail and fail on that program. I read the entire South Beach book before starting the program, having a past full of Weight Watchers, "grapefruit diet", "hardboiled egg diet", weekly-shot-in-the-butt-near-starvation diet, low fat, and who can remember what else I tried. The book made sense, and Dr. Agatston made some easily verifiable claims.

First and foremost to me - cravings for sweets was supposed to disappear after 2 or 3 days. And they did! I have one serious sweet tooth - love my candy and ice cream and pastries, but honest-to-goodness, after 2 days, I was walking past the candy machine at work without a glance. Someone brought donuts to work, and I had to pass the table half a dozen times - never even opened the box to see what kind were in there. This from the person who would have snagged 3 in the past. So this impressed me from the start.

Second was the claim that there would be a lot of belly fat loss. Well, I've already had to retire 3 pairs of jeans, and there are probably 3 more pair I could get rid of, but I haven't gotten any replacements yet.

Third - it's really easy. The first two weeks were a challenge, as is any lifestyle change. But I'm in phase two now, and it's become second nature. I'm eating lots of fruits. I'm really enjoying whole grain breads (got some killer good rye last night) and I've found some sugar free ice cream bars that are tasty and just enough to make me think I'm getting a treat.

I've eaten out several times and it's lots easier than when I did Weight Watchers. I've also found that I am satisfied with lots less food than before. I got myself a candy bar a couple of times, but a small bit of candy is quite enough for me now. I still find that hard to believe.

I started on July 6. I've dropped about 23# so far and I've been sleeping better than I have in a long time. When I go for my annual checkup in January, I'll have a full blood workup then, and I can't wait to see how my cholesterol and triglycerides have changed. (That's the main reason I did this - losing the weight is nice, but my dad's sudden death by heart attack made me consider my own mortality.) So, there's some anecdotal info about an Atkins alternative. I'll shut up now.

[Avarie537]

My husband and I started Atkins on May 5. We've both lost over 30 pounds each. I've still got a few more to go, but he's down to what he weighed when he graduated high school (he's 30 now). He's gone from a tight 38 to a comfy 34. I was struggling to get into 14s, and now I've got 10s that are too big.

For anyone who wants factual, clinical information regarding low-carb diets, please check out www.lowcarbresearch.org. I used cites from two studies found on that page for a persuasive speech in favor of low-carb diets. The biggest problem with low-carb research is that no truly long-term studies have been done. The NIH is looking into starting up a five-year study here soon.

My personal favorite low-carb website is www.low-carb-friends.com. They've got BBs, a recipe room, links to sites where you can buy stuff, etc.

As for all of the claims of kidney failure, heart attacks, cancer, etc., I must say "cite?" The government-funded Medical Research Center "claiming" things means nothing to me. The medical community has been condemning low-carb diets for years. If they change their tune now, they will have a lot of egg to clean up.

[slight hijack]
As far as mentioning the "food pyramid," I would ask that you read the article from Scientific American found here (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0007C5B6-7152-1DF6-9733809EC588EEDF).
[/slight hijack]

[Hanna]

I've been eating Atkins since June - 33 pounds gone.

A lot of people are under the misconception that Atkins is all meat, cheese and eggs - that simply isn't true. I never eat eggs and bacon. Breakfast for me is usually leftover vegetables from the night before. Lunch is a salad with tuna, chicken or ham diced on top. Dinner is 4-6 oz. of protein (fish, chicken breast or steak, I usually grill it), with a side of vegetables. If I want a snack, I have fresh or frozen berries. How can eating like that be bad for you? And there are carbs in Atkins, but the majority should come from vegetables.

Cravings for sweets and junk food - gone.

Heartburn - gone

Energy - way up!

I also totally cut caffeine out, and it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I don't miss it a bit. I also don't miss eating sugar, flour, or potatoes. I survived a whole weekend with 6 pieces of sugary sweet birthday cake in my fridge, and I wasn't even tempted to take a taste.

The great thing is, if you do Atkins correctly (start with induction for at least two weeks, and add carbs back in the proper way) it is super easy to do. I am not hungry betweeen meals, and I am satisfied eating a lot less food that I used to be.


Being overweight isn't healthy, I'm happy I found something I could do about it (and stick with!) before it was too late for me.

[Live Better Electrically!]

antechinus wrote:
Sure, from a quick google, I found here.

Thanks for trying, but, again, this article makes the claim that the diet could cause kidney damage without offering any evidence that it ever has.

Critics continue to misrepresent the diet. The way I eat is very similar to a diabetic diet. Considering the skyrocketing rates of adult-onset diabetes, isn't it common sense that reducing the amount of sugar in your diet is a healthy choice? And by sugar I also mean excess refined carbohydrates and starches. We may quibble over what constitutes an excess, but the recent attempt to revise the food pyramid--in part because supposedly heart-healthy low fat diets often allow for a pancreas-busting overabundance of carbohydrates--shows that Atkins addresses some serious dietary concerns.

[Neeps]

Can anyone answer the question about whether the Atkins diet is good for those who have just been diagnosed with type II diabetes?

I would have thought that controling your insulin release with food, and in the process losing the weight that contributed to the diabetes in the first place, could only be a good thing.

My father, however, was told not to do this by his doctor, and go on a regular low-fat diet (something he has tried before without success). I have been on Atkins for about 3 months and lost 12lb (about half what I want to), and suggested that he try it.

He doesn't want to go against medical advice, but I am worried that the advice is outdated. Anyone know of any papers, research etc?

He really needs to lose the weight. He does no excersise, as his knees hurt from carrying too much weight, and I am worried about him. I think that he would find Atkins easy, and would love for him to do it if it were safe.


I have been doing the diet, and

[Neeps]

Oops, ignore that last sentence.

[Khadaji]

I have had some very good results on it. However, as in all diets, if you revert back to your previous habits you will gain weight.

At first it wasn't too bad, but after 6 months I began to crave carbs. I think though that there are enough to new low-carb snacks that this would be lessened for me.

[Tomcat]

Did it from January to June and lost 30 pounds. I started to add carbs back into my diet (fruit, the occasional piece of toast, small side of rice or potatoes) and the most amazing thing happened- the weight didn't come back! After losing the weight my diet pretty much consists of eating normally, but avoiding pasta, rice, bread and potatoes. I do eat them now and then though- I had pizza last weekend and had a few potatoes with a curry the other day. My diet now is the "avoid the side dishes" diet. But I've been right around 82 kilos for 3 months of not following the diet strictly, so I think I'm good to go.

I still have a little paunch that I want to get rid of, so I am thinking of going back on the strict diet again in January and have a flat stomach for next summer. But I am now fitting into my old 34's and feel great. I'm on this diet for life, it's cool.

-Tcat

[DeadlyAccurate]

Originally posted by Neeps
Can anyone answer the question about whether the Atkins diet is good for those who have just been diagnosed with type II diabetes?

I would have thought that controling your insulin release with food, and in the process losing the weight that contributed to the diabetes in the first place, could only be a good thing.

My father, however, was told not to do this by his doctor, and go on a regular low-fat diet (something he has tried before without success). I have been on Atkins for about 3 months and lost 12lb (about half what I want to), and suggested that he try it.

He doesn't want to go against medical advice, but I am worried that the advice is outdated. Anyone know of any papers, research etc?

He really needs to lose the weight. He does no excersise, as his knees hurt from carrying too much weight, and I am worried about him. I think that he would find Atkins easy, and would love for him to do it if it were safe.


I would hesitate to give medical advice to anyone, especially one with a serious condition, so keep in mind that I'm not a medical professional. But anecdotally, many diabetic people on the lowcarbfriends message board who've been on this diet have been able to control their diabetes with diet and exercise. Perhaps he could contact the Atkins Center or one of the centers for one of the other low carb diets (like the South Beach Diet FCM mentioned) and get some advice on who in his area he could speak with about this.

[Neeps]

Thanks DeadlyAccurate for that. All the stuff that I had read was anecdotal as well, but I guess with no long term studies on low carb diets, the information I would like just isn't out there.

[antechinus]

Originally posted by Live Better Electrically!
antechinus wrote:


Thanks for trying, but, again, this article makes the claim that the diet could cause kidney damage without offering any evidence that it ever has.


This site (http://www.atkinsdietalert.org/consumer.html) has many references to epidemiological studies of the health risks presented by a high protein diet.

Here is a healthy diet recommended by dieticians (http://www.health.gov.au/pubhlth/strateg/food/guide/index.htm).

Of course a diet high in refined carbohydrates is bad for you. Dieticians recommend complex carbohydrates and avoiding refined sugar.

If you eat lots of lollies and drink soft drinks you are a good candidate for mature onset diabetes.

[Hanna]

You are aware, antechinus , that the PCRM (the people who put out that website you linked to) are animal rights activists, aren't you? Of course they will say that high-protein is bad for you, and offer their own vegan way of doing it. Take a look at their "Healthier Choices" link.

[cajela]

Well, without very many cites yet, but at least a few, this is what I've read & heard.

Some of the arguments its proponents raise are strawmen: nobody will argue that cutting out lollies, cakes, donuts and soft drinks is at all bad for you. Any sensible diet will do this.


The Atkins diet can indeed work for weight loss, for several reasons:
1. Restricting calories will always help weight loss.
2. Eating meat and fat does seem to give a sensation of fullness, which helps someone keep an otherwise restricted diet going.
3. Low carb diets deplete glycogen in liver and muscle tissue, which binds water. (So a high proportion of the weight loss is meaningless and very quickly regained.)
4. Actual research has shown that a high protein diet can help with weight loss.
5. Actual research has shown that dropping potatoes, white bread and some other carbs can help with weight loss.

What actual research?
The particular high protein diet tested by the CSIRO is NOT the same as the Atkins diet. Here's a start:
http://www.ihf.com.au/content/showpagenum.asp?Page=5323

The thing is, it seems, that you can eat foods other than protein that also make you feel full. Complex carbs are among these. The low GI diet sems to be the latest thing in medically endorsed diets, and this one suggests (similarly) dropping potatoes and white bread - but replacing them not with protein and fat, but with other low GI complex carb foods such as sweet potatoes and wholemeal bread.

This is the CSIRO page - complete diet included:
http://www.csiro.au/index.asp?type=division&id=Human%20Nutrition

Some of the problems with the Atkins diet are serious:
My partner's family is very prone to bowel cancer, and irritable bowel, so keeping up the fibre is seriously important. My family has a lot of heart disease. Saturated fats seem like a bad idea to me. Both of these seem to be a problem with this diet.

Now, whatever you think of the PCRM site's recommendations instead (and I concur in the suspicions) they do at least have an analysis of the sample menus for the three stages of the Atkins diet taken straight from the book. So you can look for yourself. (They cite Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution (pp. 257-259)). It is low calorie, but also low fibre - until you get to the maintenance level which seems a bit saner. It is also indeed high in saturated fats. If anyone has the book they can confirm or deny whether this is accurately cited.

[Live Better Electrically!]

cajela wrote:
It is low calorie, but also low fibre - until you get to the maintenance level which seems a bit saner

Atkins strongly recommends fiber supplements during the induction phase, which the PCRM didn't take into account. I ate wheat bran. For most people the induction phase lasts only two weeks, so whatever its nutritional deficiencies, they are very temporary. Induction is a "baptism by fire" exercise to get people off their old high-carb diets. I haven't seen anyone argue that Atkins is unique for encouraging people to give up donuts and cake. He does encourage dieters to become aware of other forms of sugar that people often don't consider, which I think is worthwhile.

Taking a long-range view, the maintanence level is, ultimately, the diet, and should be the focus of criticism. Too many people look at the induction phase and portray that as the entire eating plan. My complaint with the PCRM's evaluation of the Atkins diet is that they pull out three possible menus out of a wide range of choices, and use them to represent the diet as a whole. The quality of most people's diet varies from day to day, and eating a menu like that on occasion wouldn't be especially harmful, but that isn't how I eat, and I doubt many people eat that way day after day.

The various kinds of fat are worth discussing, but we should also put things into perspective. If dieters who have failed year after year (and I was one) successfully lose weight with Atkins and keep it off, we should ask a couple of questions. First, which is worse, being clinically obese for life or eating more fat than many nutritionists recommend? Most sources I've read cite obesity as the paramount health concern. Also, once you're thin and in control of the way you eat, you can tweak your diet if you have concerns about fat or meat-eating or whatever. You have learned weight control, and congratulations! Second, is it better to discourage obese people from using a diet that could work for them because a "healthier" diet exists that does not work for them?

[LVBoPeep]

Hi,

On the fiber issue- the diet actually encourages being aware of your fiber intake for two different reasons- one is if you don't ingest enough fiber, you will have some digestion issues and secondly, you can substract fiber grams from any carb count, thus being able to eat more filling portions of veggies and allowed grains (like flaxmeal-if thats a grain). For example, I have keto hot cereal for breakfast in the mornings , took some getting used too but with sugar substitute and a pat of butter, its quite tasty. The cereal has 12 g. of carbs in a serving- over half the "allowed" carb count for Atkins Induction- but it also has 10 g of fiber. So I start my day with a dose of fiber to keep things going, have a generous and healthy breakfast and only use up 2-3 g. of my carb count. Since I have generous amounts of raw & cooked veggies, and/or salad for lunch and dinner- I find that I have no problems at all with fiber intake. I am always surprised at how many people I come across that aren't aware of this formula of figuring out effective carbs- they are the ones who are the examples people like to point too when they say Atkins followers aren't eating enough veggies (I'm eating more than ever) and are just eating meats, eggs and cheese. Without the fiber intake formula, carb intake is severely limited on Induction- but by using the formula, even Inductionees get generous amounts of healthy veggies.

I have been on Atkins for 8 months (stalled for a few, because I was being stubborn about cream in my coffee). Yes, people do have weight loss plateaus- thats true of any diet. What people have to realize is that heavier people burn more energy- they can lose more weight faster. I'm 35 lbs lighter, so just moving around doesn't burn as much of fat or calories as it did when I started- so naturally things will have to be tailored, exercise levels adjusted, etc to continue losing weight at a decent rate. Personally, I don't mind the slower weight loss- if its slow I know its not water and I will have fewer strech/weight loss marks. I'm very satisfied in the diet, I don't cheat because I don't care if I ever eat another potato or piece of bread (NEVER thought that I would say that). I feel great, my blood sugar is stabilized- the main reason I don't cheat is that I remember how awful I felt after a high glycemic meal. Actually, I remember how horrible I felt every day eating a "low fat" teriyaki bowl with rice. Low fat shouldn't weight you down and make you feel like a nap. Instead I have a salad w/ cheese and lean deli meat or leftover chicken and veggies for lunch- and feel energized, not sleepy.

For very heavy people, I think they can do the heavy meat/cheese thing, with some veggies, and lose alot of weight. I think for people who have trouble controlling their appetite- a diet where they can eat huge portions of something and lose weight is a start. Its less dangerous than maintaining an obese body condition. I think if they stick to it, the way the diet is tailored to add healthy carbs and control cravings will develop into a healthy lifestyle for them. The key though is getting started- when you have that hunger/blood sugar/craving cycle going, its very hard to stop it on a low fat diet. I have lost lots of weight on low fat diets but never learned to control my body's cravings- I was always hungry but just learned to "control myself". Now I don't have to control anything, my diet does that for me and I actually have to make an effort at times to eat enough food for the day. When I do reach my ideal weight, I look forward to a healthy diet that will satisfy me and give me the tools to recover from a venture outside of the diet. I have a planned cheat on my b-day in Nov- Thai Buffet :). But I'm confident that I can do that, eat reasonably then (still won't endulge much on noodles & rice) and have a structured plan of returning to my diet. No other diet has done that for me- it was always "just eat less (fat, calories, etc)"- no real information on how to maintain that in the face of carb induced cravings.

[kate22]

Originally posted by Live Better Electrically!
But I think dieters have to see that eating less food than they did before--not just different food--is the overarching goal, otherwise I doubt their ability to lose the weight and keep it off.

Some people get food cravings due to carbs raising their blood sugar levels. That is why some people need to stick to a low carb diet to keep levels low and reduce craving for high carb foods.

Although I haven't seen studies yet, I'm hoping someone is studying children who have a family history of diabetes. I believe that's why some children gain weight in childhood. They tend to be addicted to carbs from the start.

[NurseCarmen]

I did the induction phase for 2 weeks, lost 14 pounds. Then one day I woke up and felt as if I had broken my foot. I figured I injured it somehow exercising, but the pain was way worse than any break I had ever had. I went into the emergency room, since it was a Saturday, and hobbled around for a couple hours till I could see the doc.

Some background. I'm male, 36, exercise regularly, never had any major health issues (other than the demon nicotine, which I quit 10 months ago).

The diagnosis? Gout. Gout!!?! I said. What the hell is gout? Isn't that something that they bitch about on the Golden Girls? What's next? A goiter? Unknown to me, gout can be a side effect of atkins. It hurt like hell. I bought and ate a twinkie on my way home. I've gained ten of the pounds back. I keep convincing myself that it's muscle. (some of it actually is).

[Live Better Electrically!]

kate22 wrote:
Some people get food cravings due to carbs raising their blood sugar levels. That is why some people need to stick to a low carb diet to keep levels low and reduce craving for high carb foods.

I agree completely, but my point is that those food cravings led to overeating. So when people switch to a low carb diet, the goal should be to stop the cravings and eat less, not continue overeating but with different foods.

[antechinus]

Originally posted by Boscibo
You are aware, antechinus , that the PCRM (the people who put out that website you linked to) are animal rights activists, aren't you? Of course they will say that high-protein is bad for you, and offer their own vegan way of doing it. Take a look at their "Healthier Choices" link.

No, I didnt notice the animal rights link - I did not thoroughly check out the site - just looking for easily accessed citations. Thanks for pointing it out though. Hey I'm all for eating meat (since this is IMHO), but those references are still to respectable journals.

Point remains - a balanced diet is a healthy diet (this includes only very small amounts of refined carbs) whereas diets that concentrate on specific food groups present certain risks that people should be aware of.



These discussions raise a couple of questions.

Did those of you who went on an Atkins diet eat a lot of sweets (like candies and coke every day) and lots of other refined carbs such as pastries and white bread?

Did you have much minimally processed cereals in your diet or have lolly breakfasts like fruit loops or coco pops?

I hope this does not sound condesending - I am genuinely curious.

[LVBoPeep]

Hi,

I can answer for myself- no I didn't eat alot of sweets- I have never been much for sweets except on special occasions. Before Atkins I rarely if ever ate breakfast during the week, on weekends usually 1 breakfast sandwich or half an omelet. So not much on cereals- if I did buy cereal it was Honey Bunches of Oats, but only ate it on weekends.

I drank diet coke, have for years.

I did eat a fair amount of wheat or sourdough bread, but not daily and not in large amounts.

Even when I wasn't diet, I was always conscious of fat content and would tend to choose lower fat options if given a choice. I was also a "low fat" stir fry and teriyaki bowl queen. I would also often make huge pots of chicken soup w/ egg noodles- also low fat- to eat throughout the week during the winter. Dinner was usually a lean meat, a veggie and a starch. Now the main difference is that I leave out the starch, start every morning with a healthy breakfast and don't bother with the noodles & bread- just the soup.

[Hanna]

I never ate breakfast, most days I didn't eat until 5-6:00 PM. I ate way to much junk, not necessarily sweets (barely any, as a matter of fact), but not good food choices. Not many vegetables at all. No sugary soda, either, I've been drinking diet all of my adult life. I loved bread though, but didn't eat it daily. I know for a fact my problem was more lack of exercise, but combined with poor food choices and the sad fact that I'm nearing 40, extra poundage creeped up on me.

Shedding the extra weight has made it easier for me to do the exercise of choice (biking), and I also finally had the nerve to join a gym. I feel lucky I am still healthy after all my years of eating junk, but until recently my weight was never a problem for me. Eating high-carb foods is generally easier and quicker, although with a little prep beforehand, eating lo-carb can be just as easy.

[Rushgeekgirl]

I was most definitely addicted to carbs, and the withdrawal (Induction) showed it. It was not easy for me at all.

I've lost 45 lbs. on Atkins since February, but that's not even the main thing.
I have never been able to not "cheat" on a diet. I've never remained on one for more than a day. I have absolutely no desire for junk food anymore. I drink water all the time instead of my six pack of Dr. Pepper. Splenda is even getting too sweet. I don't crave starches. I eat what I know I need and stop.

I don't eat an enormous amount of meat (good since Atkins ISNT ABOUT eating enormous amounts of meat!). I might have bacon some mornings, some tuna or chicken for lunch. I don't really like red meat so much so that's out. I eat Nature's Own lowcarb bread every day, take a fiber supplement (recommended by most doctors regardless of your diet...according to my own). I eat salad, my beloved spinach, some cheese and eggs here and there. Nuts of all sorts. And I'm completely satisfied. I went from 20 to 40 grams of carbs per day without any actual stalls; it's slowed down some because I'm getting closer to goal and because I am a human and thats how people lose weight.

Okay I'll buy maybe the calories might have something to do with the weight loss. I don't care what it is. I just got my cholesterol checked and it's lower than it was six years ago. I have POTS, and my symptoms have decreased, especially the postprandial tachycardia and dizziness. I just feel great. About ten years younger, making me barely drinking age!

Most importantly, the lost weight has encouraged me to get out and move. I exercise every day after painting for eight hours...in the heat...in Memphis...blahblah ;)

Heh...some old dude at the park told me the other day "You stout but you sho got some fine lookin legs".
Hey, I take my compliments where I gets em!

Here's what it comes down to for me. You can bitch about it all you want, but It beats how I ate before (closer to that "enormous amounts of meat, in addition to enormous amounts of carbs).

[Live Better Electrically!]

I mentioned some of my eating habits from my "fat days" earlier in this thread. I haven't drank soft drinks in over a decade (I drink unsweetened ice tea), and certainly didn't eat junk food all the time. I tried to eat low fat foods, but ate too much of them. I had Grape-Nuts cereal with skim milk for breakfast almost every morning (now there's a carbohydrate feast) and would be starving by mid-morning. Inevitably that would prompt a snack of some sort, usually fat-free pretzels, which were supposed to be my diet aid. Again, tons of carbs. No amount of pretzels would curb my appetite--they only made me more hungry. I just read a newspaper article in which a low-fat diet guru recommend fat-free pretzels as a good snack for dieters. Those things are bad.

For other meals I ate a lot of pasta, rice and vegetables, and came pretty close to being a vegetarian. I'd have second and sometimes third helpings at meals. I unwittingly ate prepared foods loaded with high fructose corn syrup, including my "healthy" whole wheat bread. I would indulge in too many opportunities for "treats" at weddings, birthday parties, office parties, etc. Looking back, I see where I was overeating at almost every turn, but I wasn't being unusually gluttonous--I was eating the way most people in America do.

[antechinus]

Thanks for the replies.

Remember, those pre-packaged and processed foods contain (in general) lots of sugars and salt.

[piaffe]

Has anyone successfully used Atkins simply to be healthier *without* losing weight? What you all are reporting sounds very attractive--more energy, no candy cravings, etc.--but I don't want to drop any pounds.

Also, how affordable is the Atkins plan?

[DeadlyAccurate]

Originally posted by antechinus
Thanks for the replies.

Remember, those pre-packaged and processed foods contain (in general) lots of sugars and salt.

You're telling Atkins dieters that? :)

I could've written LBE's post, except I drank diet soft drinks rather than tea. Actually, I still drink diet soft drinks; I just drink more water now.

I had given up cereal about two years ago, because I LOVE the stuff, especially the super sweet kids' cereals. I ate one serving of meat a day most days. Breakfast was usually a sandwich or toast. Lunch was chicken noodle soup and a sandwich, or two sandwiches, or leftovers from dinner the night before. Dinner was usually a pasta something-or-other (like Hamburger Helpers or spaghetti). Unfortunately, that led to eating more carbs later as false hunger pains and carb cravings hit. I snacked a lot between meals, usually more carbs, and the cravings were intense.

Now half the time, I eat dinner and don't have anything else all night but water. Sometimes I'll snack on nuts, a pickle, some sugar-free candy or something, especially while watching a movie or playing a computer game, but if I get busy, I can easily forget to think of food. Some days I forget to eat lunch or breakfast (it's bad to skip meals, so I try not to do this). You wouldn't believe what a strange feeling that is for me.

FTR, most women have mentioned that they still get false hunger pains and food cravings during TOM, and I've noticed that about myself. It's so nice to know the effect is temporary.

[DeadlyAccurate]

Originally posted by piaffe
Has anyone successfully used Atkins simply to be healthier *without* losing weight? What you all are reporting sounds very attractive--more energy, no candy cravings, etc.--but I don't want to drop any pounds.

Also, how affordable is the Atkins plan?

You could follow the maintenance part of the plan, which is the part where you eat the amount of carbs needed to maintain your weight, but you could also simply eliminate most starches and sugars and replace them with meats and vegetables without having to follow a strict diet. In other words, eat more whole foods (the outer edges of the grocery store aisle rather than the inner aisles) and fewer pre-processed foods. And drink more water. Choose sugar-free breads instead of the other stuff.

I don't know if it's a good idea to go on induction to clean your body of carbs if you don't need to lose weight.

I found Atkins more expensive, because around here, vegetables and meats are more expensive than pre-processed foods like Hamburger Helpers. But I admit I do tend to buy better cuts of meat sometimes. But the biggest thing to consider is that you have to go to the grocery store more often (because vegetables don't last as long as a box of pasta) and you have to cook a lot (I always try to cook enough for multiple meals to save time).

[LVBoPeep]

Hi,

If you are interested in Atkins for healthy living, the Atkins For Life book is really good- it has alot of good recipes and menu plans for maintainance level. I think at that level you are essentially just cutting out the "junk"- starches in small doses but mostly whole foods- veggies, meats and it gives good examples of the appropriate kinds of grains.

As far as cost- I'm a single girl so its hard to compare how I eat compared to grocery shopping for a family. My grocery bill is about $50-60 a week , $40 if I need to cut corners. Actually, its lower now than when I started Atkins- I think when you first start you buy more so you have more options and don't feel limited- but once you get used to the diet, your appetitie decreases and you have picked out which snacks you like, which dinners you enjoy, etc. Cuts of meat can get expensive- but buying things like large turkey breasts and roasts can last me a lot longer. Another plus is that you do more of your own food preparation- I went from my daily fast food (usually teriyaki bowl or sushi) to the occasional Wendy's salad- also have cut out diet coke to cut caffeine so no more big soda bills and daily cash for snacks and drinks. If I figured out what I used to spend every day at work, and compare it to how much I spend now in groceries, I think the amount I spend for food would be the same , if not lower now.