36 kids die in hot cars this year

[SpoilerVirgin]

Since (tragically) this subject comes up frequently in the Pit, I thought the Pitizens might be interested in this article (http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/08/26/child.heat.deaths.ap/index.html) about kids dying in hot cars.

I know linking to the article is more of an MPSIMS thing, but it's definitely a subject fit for the Pit. I feel sick every time I think about the negligence and stupidity that leads to these deaths, and even sicker when I think about the poor parents who turned their kids over to a daycare provider without knowing that it would be the last time they ever saw them.

Not the strongest of rants, but this stuff makes me more sad than angry. Maybe someone else can do better.

[World Eater]

I'm surprised it's only 36.

Fucking idiots.

[voguevixen]

This baffles me:
Fennell suggested placing reminders in the car, such as a bag of diapers in the front seat or a purse or briefcase in the back with the child.

"Put something that you have to have today in the back seat, where it's going to force to you check the back seat. Eventually, it becomes a habit," she said.

Yeah, if you can't remember something as insignificant as your own child, put something important back there: like your lunch!

I'm of the disturbing mindset that quite a few of these are not "accidents."

[Finagle]

I've done quite enough absent-minded dumbass things in my life to understand how this could happen. My thought is to propose a technical fix. How hard would it be to make an active or passive ventilation system standard (or optional) in cars so that they don't heat up to a zillion degrees?

It seems as though it would be fairly simply to engineer an air exchange system powered by solar cells that would pump enough air through a car so that it doesn't get much hotter than the outside air temperature. And you don't have to have a toddler in the back seat to appreciate this -- it's no fun getting into a 120 degree car.

[World Eater]

Originally posted by Finagle
I've done quite enough absent-minded dumbass things in my life to understand how this could happen. My thought is to propose a technical fix. How hard would it be to make an active or passive ventilation system standard (or optional) in cars so that they don't heat up to a zillion degrees?

It seems as though it would be fairly simply to engineer an air exchange system powered by solar cells that would pump enough air through a car so that it doesn't get much hotter than the outside air temperature. And you don't have to have a toddler in the back seat to appreciate this -- it's no fun getting into a 120 degree car.

There is no technology to prevent human stupidity.

There never will be.

[World Eater]

Originally posted by Finagle
I've done quite enough absent-minded dumbass things in my life to understand how this could happen. My thought is to propose a technical fix. How hard would it be to make an active or passive ventilation system standard (or optional) in cars so that they don't heat up to a zillion degrees?

It seems as though it would be fairly simply to engineer an air exchange system powered by solar cells that would pump enough air through a car so that it doesn't get much hotter than the outside air temperature. And you don't have to have a toddler in the back seat to appreciate this -- it's no fun getting into a 120 degree car.

There is no technology to prevent human stupidity.

There never will be.

[Elenfair]

You know, I never have forgotten my dogs in the car. Ever. I've had changes of plans and routes... and never EVER have forgotten my dogs. Never been so preoccupied that I've forgotten them in any vehicle.

Hell, they never stay in a car unattended, rain or shine, hot or cold or mild...

We're talking about your CHILDREN here. I don't understand how ANYONE could forget they've got their kid in the car, strapped in a carseat. I just... don't.

[Boo Boo Foo]

I'd agree with you there World Eater. As somebody wrote to myself about this subject in another thread recently...

Never leave your baby anywhere you wouldn't leave a million dollars sitting in the open.

Once you indelibly etch that particular philosophy into your head, it kinda becomes pretty obvious as to what you should do I rather think.

[World Eater]

Originally posted by Boo Boo Foo
I'd agree with you there World Eater. As somebody wrote to myself about this subject in another thread recently...

Never leave your baby anywhere you wouldn't leave a million dollars sitting in the open.

Once you indelibly etch that particular philosophy into your head, it kinda becomes pretty obvious as to what you should do I rather think.

That's funny, I really took that quote to heart as well.

Words to live by.

[Muldoon's Squishiness]

Originally posted by Finagle
I've done quite enough absent-minded dumbass things in my life to understand how this could happen. My thought is to propose a technical fix. How hard would it be to make an active or passive ventilation system standard (or optional) in cars so that they don't heat up to a zillion degrees?

It seems as though it would be fairly simply to engineer an air exchange system powered by solar cells that would pump enough air through a car so that it doesn't get much hotter than the outside air temperature. And you don't have to have a toddler in the back seat to appreciate this -- it's no fun getting into a 120 degree car.

If something like that does happen, it won't be for 15-20 years and only after the car companies have been dragged kicking and screaming into doing it, just like they were dragged kicking and screaming into adding anti-lock brakes and air bags to passenger cars.

Lee Iacocca is personally responsible for holding up the introduction of anti-lock brakes /air bags in domestic (US cars) for nearly 15 years. He was a vicious anti-saftey campaigner, which boggles the mind. Iacocca kept bleating about how adding airbags and anti-lock brakes would bankrupt the auto industry.

Sure thing, Lee.:rolleyes: :wally

[Arcana]

People this stupid should be prevented by the government from ever bearing children again.

[Lute Skywatcher]

Originally posted by World Eater
Fucking idiots. Yep, that's the cause in a nutshell. ;)

[Blonde]

Every summer in Texas - I think we're getting better at prosecuting in these cases, though. Maybe.

How in hell could you do it?? It's bad enough that we get the stories (3 that I can recall this year) of day-care workers forgetting about a child - but can you imagine forgetting your OWN child was in the car and walking off?

Here's the latest tragedy in my neck of the woods:


http://www.recordsearchlight.com/news/state/past/20030822state034.shtml

[Finagle]

Originally posted by World Eater
There is no technology to prevent human stupidity.

There never will be.

First of all, technology can certainly reduce the consequences of human stupidity, witness the airbag and the seat belt.


Second, I believe it's unjust and even cruel to put down all of these cases as stupidity. Theories of human cognition posit that many human responses are scriptal in nature -- that is, we go through our daily routine following what is essentially a built-in program that we build up over a period of repeating the same mundane tasks over and over. It's a very useful mechanism in that it frees the mind from having resolve known problems every day. The flaw is that it doesn't handle breaks in the routine very well. Get distracted, even a bit, and the mind goes back on autopilot.

My point is that this is a natural mechanism of the human mind that occasionally has tragic consequences.

[Finagle]

Originally posted by World Eater
There is no technology to prevent human stupidity.

There never will be.

First of all, technology can certainly reduce the consequences of human stupidity, witness the airbag and the seat belt.


Second, I believe it's unjust and even cruel to put down all of these cases as stupidity. Theories of human cognition posit that many human responses are scriptal in nature -- that is, we go through our daily routine following what is essentially a built-in program that we build up over a period of repeating the same mundane tasks over and over. It's a very useful mechanism in that it frees the mind from having resolve known problems every day. The flaw is that it doesn't handle breaks in the routine very well. Get distracted, even a bit, and the mind goes back on autopilot.

My point is that this is a natural mechanism of the human mind that occasionally has tragic consequences.

[LilyoftheValley]

What gets me about SpoilerVirgin's link is the following quote:

What many people do not realize is just how quickly cars and trucks can become stifling death traps.

What the hell? What rock have they been living under?

[Beagle]

Every time someone does this in Florida, I keep in mind that I've never left any perishible groceries in my car before. That explains why we are unable to become parents, we might have a fucking clue. Bitter, hostile, don't mess with me on this one. Just nod knowingly.

[Lute Skywatcher]

Originally posted by LilyoftheValley
What gets me about SpoilerVirgin's link is the following quote:What many people do not realize is just how quickly cars and trucks can become stifling death traps.What the hell? What rock have they been living under? I don't know but they seem to be related to the people who need every single warning spelled out for them. We went grocery shopping Monday and for the first time I noticed a big sign at the store's entrance. The sign warned against leaving pets and children unattended in parked cars.

[Skeptico]

There is no technology to prevent human stupidity.

There never will be.


"Everytime you think you've created an idiot-proof technology, they make a better idiot." -unknown

[Arcana]

People this stupid shouldn't be punished. But they should be sterilized.

[BoBettie]

I am of the firm belief that these are not accidents at all- they're parents killing children (or caregivers killing children) and should be prosecuted as such.

[World Eater]

Originally posted by Finagle
First of all, technology can certainly reduce the consequences of human stupidity, witness the airbag and the seat belt.

Witness how many people still fly through the windshield.

Besides the auto industry has to shell out buckets of money, passing the buck along to millions of consumers because of 36 cases?

More people die tripping off a curb, lets dump millions into developing a smartcurb!


Second, I believe it's unjust and even cruel to put down all of these cases as stupidity. Theories of human cognition posit that many human responses are scriptal in nature -- that is, we go through our daily routine following what is essentially a built-in program that we build up over a period of repeating the same mundane tasks over and over. It's a very useful mechanism in that it frees the mind from having resolve known problems every day. The flaw is that it doesn't handle breaks in the routine very well. Get distracted, even a bit, and the mind goes back on autopilot.

You can pontificate until the cows come home, because a rational person wouldn't even leave a quart of ice cream in a hot car let alone a child.


Leave kid cooking in car for 3 hours while you're at sears = fucking idiot of the highest magnatude.

This is a stone cold fact, don't try to debate it.


My point is that this is a natural mechanism of the human mind that occasionally has tragic consequences.

Leaving a child to broil in a vehicle is anything but natural.

[Finagle]

Worldeater, there are several different kinds of "kid left in car" cases. The ones where the parent is aware that the kid is in the car and knowingly goes off shopping or having their nails done, those I have no sympathy for.

The ones where the kid falls asleep in the back of the car on the way to day care and the parent goes to work not realizing that the kid is still there or the case where the parents have missed signals and each thought the other had taken the kid out of the car-- I have immense sympathy for them. Because sometime, yes, people do make terrible mistakes, and they're not intentional, and they're not even necessarily due to carelessness. The human mind is not a perfect machine and it glitches sometime. I have a hard time reconciling Zette's unforgiving stance with the agony of a parent who came out to their car to find out that their life had changed forever through no conscious intention of their own.




WorldEater:

"Witness how many people still fly through the windshield.

Besides the auto industry has to shell out buckets of money, passing the buck along to millions of consumers because of 36 cases?"


Well, less people fly out of windshields than used to. And, as I pointed out, built-in ventilation that keeps cars cooler on hot days isn't just a safety measure, it would be a good selling point. It would keep the car more comfortable and prevent plastic items like CDs from melting. So it's not a bad idea just on its own merits.

[World Eater]

Originally posted by Finagle
Worldeater, there are several different kinds of "kid left in car" cases. The ones where the parent is aware that the kid is in the car and knowingly goes off shopping or having their nails done, those I have no sympathy for.

And we should have none.


The ones where the kid falls asleep in the back of the car on the way to day care and the parent goes to work not realizing that the kid is still there or the case where the parents have missed signals and each thought the other had taken the kid out of the car-- I have immense sympathy for them.

I understand what you are saying, but I can't imagine "missing a signal" of that importance. I don't care what the circumstances are, because, honestly I can think of very few actual situations in which 'total moronic idiocy' wasn't the main factor in the kids death.


Because sometime, yes, people do make terrible mistakes, and they're not intentional, and they're not even necessarily due to carelessness. The human mind is not a perfect machine and it glitches sometime.

Carelessness is you leave your kid alone in the car while you get gas, or while you run into the bank for 5 minutes.

Incompetence is leaving your child to die in a car for several hours on a 90 day.



I have a hard time reconciling Zette's unforgiving stance with the agony of a parent who came out to their car to find out that their life had changed forever through no conscious intention of their own.


I don't share the view that they are intentional, perhaps one or two, but something like this smacks of a supreme idiot.


[/quote]
Well, less people fly out of windshields than used to. And, as I pointed out, built-in ventilation that keeps cars cooler on hot days isn't just a safety measure, it would be a good selling point. It would keep the car more comfortable and prevent plastic items like CDs from melting. So it's not a bad idea just on its own merits. [/QUOTE]

No not at all, I just wonder if it would be worth it, as I'm sure these people would find other creative methods to accidentally kill their children.

I do understand where you are coming from, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

[buttonjockey308]

Know what I'd like to see? One generation of products i.e. cars etc. that you had to add safety features to, we'd let those products do away with the jokers that wanted to be free of safety features, thus thinning the herd. More air for the smart people.

[The Man With The Golden Gun]

Originally posted by Skeptico
"Everytime you think you've created an idiot-proof technology, they make a better idiot." -unknown

I like this quote. I like it a lot.

[World Eater]

Yes, a better idiot who makes things more expensive for the rest of us.

[Danalan]

It's been very hot in Europe this year -- anybody heard of any cases there? Does this happen routinely in the tropics? Or is this primarily a USA phenomenon?

[johnnyk]

Originally posted by World Eater
I'm surprised it's only 36.

Fucking idiots.

It's not...it's 37 now....:(

Mother Forgets Baby in Backseat For Eight Hours (http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0803/100516.html)

That poor, poor baby...:(

[CanvasShoes]

My God! This is still happening? argh. I hate these.

I remember the first time my mom told me about one, I couldn't stop thinking about it for months. It was just after I'd had my baby girl (who'd kill me if she heard that, as she's 23 now).

With all the information out there, how can people be so stupid?

[CanvasShoes]

Originally posted by Finagle
The ones where the kid falls asleep in the back of the car on the way to day care and the parent goes to work not realizing that the kid is still there or the case where the parents have missed signals and each thought the other had taken the kid out of the car-- I have immense sympathy for them.
I can't understand those people either. I mean, having a kid changes SO much. You're ALWAYS aware of it. Even my brain dead ex, (my son's father), could be counted on to not do something this idiotic.

Like someone else said. I don't even bring my dog with me if I know I'm going to be in any stores for too long (and yes, it can get hot enough here in AK in the summer to endanger children and dogs left in vehicles, especially up in the "Interior").


I mean, it just boggles the mind. Now, I'M a dizzy blond from time to time. Every month, I get a case of the "stupids" around that time of month. I've put milk in the cupboard. I get mild aphasia. I've gone to the wrong job at the wrong time (I have two to four of them depending on the time of year).

I've lost my purse, my cell phone. And done much worse, ditzier things as well. But never, in my entire life have I ever forgotten that I've had my child with me.

And from the parts of the article I read (I couldn't handle the whole thing), some of these people were well educated, how on EARTH can someone like that just "forget" their kid is there???

Because sometime, yes, people do make terrible mistakes, and they're not intentional, and they're not even necessarily due to carelessness.
I kind of agree with you here. It "CAN'T" be mere carelessness. Whatever it is, it's mindboggling. Again, I can't even begin to fathom how someone could forget that they have a kid in the backseat, let alone leave them there on a hot day.

The human mind is not a perfect machine and it glitches sometime. I have a hard time reconciling Zette's unforgiving stance with the agony of a parent who came out to their car to find out that their life had changed forever through no conscious intention of their own.
Well, one thing's for certain, these parents have their very own special punishment to live with. I doubt anyone will be as unforgiving toward them as they are.

[CanvasShoes]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Finagle
The ones where the kid falls asleep in the back of the car on the way to day care ............................--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know what you meant to say, sorry something else occured to me.

I know that when my kids were still little enough to take to day care, that I'd be constantly trying to watch them to make sure this didn't happen.

Nothing worse than trying to re-wake a cranky kid to take him/her into daycare. So, if both parents are in the car, what? Didn't they plan?

Like "bob, I'll take the car, you drop Betsey off at daycare, and then pick me up and we'll pick her up together"??

So, between two parents leaving the house, and one of them getting dropped off at work, the other one just "forgets"????

He/she has just dropped the spouse off, he/she doesn't "know" that no other stop was made?

Sorry to re-repeat this. It's just so hard to "get".

[bifar]

It's been very hot in Europe this year -- anybody heard of any cases there?
Good question.

A cursory seach found this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/3004308.stm


Parents are being warned not to leave their children in locked cars after fears were raised over the safety of girl in a Teesside car park.
The youngster was left sleeping in a locked car out in the blazing sun with all the windows tightly closed.
A policeman, who discovered the little girl, said he considered breaking into the car to ensure the child's safety.

In the UK we do hear cases of pets suffocating in hot cars each summer, but not children. This is only speculation, but I would imagine that this is because

1. Even this summer, it hasn’t been as hot in Europe as the US regularly gets
2. The people who would, perhaps, be more likely to leave their kids in cars – not to fall into stereotypes or anything, but the poor and dispossessed, the drug addicts, etc – are far less likely to own a car, at least in the UK
3. People are more likely to walk or catch the bus to do the kind of errand that in the US might necessitate driving.

Just MHO.

[TeaElle]

Here's why I don't know how to reconcile myself with the "I forgot" thing. When I get out of my car to go into work or just about anywhere, I take a cursory glance inside. I don't plan it, it's not intentional, it's rote: are the doors locked, do I have my keys, do I have my purse/briefcase/lunch, did I put the windows up far enough, did I turn off the lights, did I get my jacket, is everything the way it ought to be?

Obviously not everyone who becomes a parent is locked into the mode of thinking about their child more often than not, but I cannot fathom the state of mind of a parent of a small child who is so self-absorbed or into their work or desire to do whatever it is they're doing that they don't take a moment, just a brief glancing moment, to look toward the backseat. Even if you think that the baby is at the daycare, even if you aren't thinking about the baby at all, getting out and looking toward the back because you are giong to take the baby out becomes the standard. Doing something different than that is odd, it's out of the ordinary, it's just so odd that it makes you wonder.

What is it about those days that everything goes so horribly topsy-turvy? What weird quirk of mind was at work?

Or was there one?

[Beagle]

The latest story ends with this little chestnut. Here is some advice. Put an article, like your purse, or briefcase, on the floor in the back near the child. That way, you'll never forget. Um... Ah... What about using your child to remind yourself to get your child? Do these people consult the rear view mirrors while they drive? Ever? I do understand being forgetful about things like notes and lists, purses, cell phones, and briefcases. How is that going to help? I've never left a dog in the car. I've never left a plant in the car. I've never left ice cream in the car.

Sometimes I'll leave 12 packs of soda in the car until I need them.

[BoBettie]

I have a hard time reconciling Zette's unforgiving stance with the agony of a parent who came out to their car to find out that their life had changed forever through no conscious intention of their own.

I'm sorry, but I call bullshit on many of these cases. I have a feeling it's going to come out that a lot of these deaths are like some of the S.I.D.S deaths that turned out to be smotherings.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/02/05/national/main269639.shtml
A woman in my old hometown killed 6 (I believe) children by smothering them and they were all classified as "S.I.D.S." until it was revealed many years later that she had killed each and every one of them.

I think that there are accidental cases (although I'm very suspicious of those, too), and I think that people now have the idea that this is a way to kill kids that gets little investigation due to the "trauma" to the parents.

In the world we live in, I am willing to believe that many of these deaths (if not most) are intentional. This is my gut feeling about them and it's a horrible way for a child to die. I don't even forget my CD player in my car for fear of it getting stolen. These people can't remember that they have an infant strapped in a carseat? It sets off my bullshit meter. Big time.

[hebesphenomegacorona]

Oy vey. That's just ridiculous.

[Lute Skywatcher]

Zette, if you're referring to the case I think you're referring to, that's the one which prompted the SIDS classification in the first place!

[BoBettie]

I'm not sure what you mean, Jeff- the case I'm referring to is this one:
http://www.nurseweek.com/features/bkreview/sids.html

[Lute Skywatcher]

Yep, that's the one. From the linked article: He published a landmark paper in Pediatrics in 1972 that established a widely accepted theory of SIDS, launching multi-million dollar National Institutes of Health grants and the home apnea monitoring industry. Steinschneider refused to believe the deaths could be anything but SIDS, even after he was proven wrong. Having his name attached to a new disorder and all that grant money probably had something to do with it.

[voguevixen]

Originally posted by Zette


I think that there are accidental cases (although I'm very suspicious of those, too), and I think that people now have the idea that this is a way to kill kids that gets little investigation due to the "trauma" to the parents.



I agree.

I keep typing more and erasing it, so I'll just stick with that.