Princess Mononoke

[Teelo]

This movie is being played on IFC every few weeks.
I managed to catch the end of it at a friends house one day, and being a non lover of any Japanimation type shows I didn't give it much of a chance. But after watching the last hour it was really spectacular. Its just...something about it really is beautiful and strong. Even if it didn't really make sence.
I hope I can see the full movie soon.

[KidCharlemagne]

I'm not a fan of anime either but this movie had some beautiful ideas and good characters. The animism of Shinto works well.

[Fern Forest]

It is good, isn't it? The first scene is really cool as well. The English voice actors in this weren't very good. so you really should rent the DVD so you can listen to the Japanese and read the subtitles.

[Moo the Magic Cow]

It's incredible and one of my favorite movies. You should rent it and see the entire film.

[Whack-a-Mole]

One of my favorites too. Excellent movie.

What I especially like about Japanimation (compared to American animated movies) is that he characters are so much more fully realized. American films the difference between evil and good is black and white. In films like Princess Mononoke many of the 'bad' people are in a much more 'gray' area. Lady Eboshi, for instance, does bad things but she is not really a bad person...just misguided but doing what she thinks is right for her people. Even the clearly evil characters in the movie (the corrupted animals) are driven to their evil because of the harm being done to them by people like Lady Eboshi. They are not evil just 'because' that is how they are.

If you liked Princess Mononoke you might consider giving the movie Spirited Away (also by Hiyao Miyazaki...same guy who did Princess Mononoke) a chance as well. Totally different story but an excellent film nonetheless.

[Achernar]

Yakul is my favorite. He rocks! And I have to say that despite the bad dubbing, Yakul's performance shines through equally well in both the English and Japanese versions.

[CyberPundit]

I consider Princess Mononoke a towering masterpiece and one of the two or three best films of any kind that I have seen.

I could write a whole essay about it but I will be brief. As noted above one of its strengths is the refusal to draw its characters in black and white. Similarly it refuses to offer any pat solutions to the complex issues that it raises about the relationship between Man and Nature. Despite this it gives us a powerful and satisfying ending. The trick is that it resolves the main story arc about the curse of Ashitaka and ifs lifting but leaves the other threads of the film open-ended. I think this is much more satisfying than tying up everything into a neat happy ending a la Minority Report.

The film also has some terrific action scenes especially San's attack on Irontown. I think George Lucas should be forced to sit down and watch this scene and learn how to make an action scene with drama and emotional meaning instead of just throwing special effects around with little purpose. The Wachowski brothers as well after Matrix 2.

Finally there is Joe Hisaishi's music which lends grandeur to the big moments and off-beat charm to the smaller ones.

"Yakul is my favorite."
Mine is Lady Eboshi. A truly memorable and unusual character. I would love to see a prequel which shows her backstory. (not that it's going to happen)

[Teelo]

Thank you Whack a mole I will definetly check out that movie as well.

[KidCharlemagne]

BTW is there a technical difference between japanimation and anime or are they two terms for the same thing? Also I meant to elaborate on why I liked the characters but everyone else seemed to have touched upon it. It's one of the few movies where you find yourself routing for people on both sides of a fight. It's a shame that so few anime artists have chosen to draw from the rich mythologies of Shinto and instead have gone the way of robots, cyberpunk and technocabals.

[Gadfly]

All of Hayao Miyazaki's stuff is awesome. My favorite by him has to be Porco Rosso, a movie which is seeing a North American Disney release in 2004, or you could pick up the DVD.

[shy guy]

I, too, love the movie.

That ancient boar god is sweet. Come to think of it, I want an army of boars. We'll see how well a 1920's style "Death Ray" stands up to that.

[RobuSensei]

KidCharlemagne:

Japanimation is the old American name for anime, coined back when people didn't know the Japanese word. Anime is the Japanese term for animation, and the word is in fact based on the English word. Although outside of Japan, the word anime specifically refers to Japanese animation, in Japan it refers to all animation. Thus, the anime DVD shelves at my local Tower Records includes the Studio Ghibli films, the giant-robot TV series, Tom & Jerry, Snow White, and The Simpsons....

As for choice of subject matter, although there is a lot of robots, cyberpunk, and technocabals, there's also a lot of romance, "harem" (like Tenchi Muyou! and Love Hina), fantasy, and historical and mythological anime -- although I too wish that there were more of that last, but it's like wishing that there were more Hollywood movies about Greek myths and early Christianity. Interesting for some, but the big companies are gonna go with what sells....

...which also means that most of the anime that is exported is of the aforementioned robots, cyberpunk, and technocabals themes.

>sigh<

Rob
(who wonders how Disney would handle a dub script for Pom Poko....)

[Eternal]

What I don't get is how he popped those guys's heads off with arrows. Were they arrows of awesome power?

[effac3d]

Originally posted by Eternal
What I don't get is how he popped those guys's heads off with arrows. Were they arrows of awesome power?

The curse was turning him into a demon with super strength,the arm he used to draw the bow was where the "infection" started.

[Sinungaling]

I thought "anime" came from French, not English.

[RealityChuck]

My wife hated anime (and I didn't care much for it myself, having seen a lot of unimpressive examples back when they were still calling it japanimation). But I had heard so many good things about Monomoke that I rented it when she wasn't expecting it.

She loved it. As did my daughter. Then we rented Kiki's Delivery Service.

She still hates anime -- except when Myazaki is involved.

BTW is there a technical difference between japanimation and anime or are they two terms for the same thing? "Japanimation" was the term first used when the films started reaching the US (not counting the Astroboy-8th Man-Gigantor etc. boom in the 60s). "Anime" is the upscale term for the same thing. If you say "japanimation," the anime snobs will sniker and think you're a rube.

[Teelo]

Originally posted by effac3d
The curse was turning him into a demon with super strength,the arm he used to draw the bow was where the "infection" started.

Cool, is there any other neat things we could of missed?

Oh, and I managed to catch the whole movie later on in the night. Yay!

[paulberserker]

check out 'Laputa- Castle in the Sky', also by Miyazaki. that film blew me away when i saw on TV in about 89. only have to wait til the end of october for it on DVD. princess mononoke is currently winging its way to my house by mail order as we speak.
and on saturday, im going to go see spirited away at the cinema, instead of watching it on a 4 inch by 4 inch quicktime window.
great films all

[furlibusea]

You may also want to watch "My Neighbor Totoro." also by Miyazaki. I love the countryside scenes and the catbus.

[Fern Forest]

Did anyone notice how at one point in the English soundtrack one of the voice actors spoke the line of the next character? I'm not imagining it am I?

Of the Miyazaki films this one is my 2nd favorite after Spirited Away.

[BwanaBob]

Could someone clarify the difference (if any) between
anime and manga?

[smiling bandit]

The curse was turning him into a demon with super strength,the arm he used to draw the bow was where the "infection" started

He could probably do that anyway. He hadn't really gotten much in the way of superstrength yet, and I don't think he had much difference in the bow's draw from the opening.

Plus, when Hayao Miyazaki turns on the gore, he turns it on all the way.

[N9IWP]

Magna is printed matter (to put it crudely, comic books) while anime, is well, animated (tho borrowing many style elements from magna. Note that there is a WIDE assortment of magna (mystery magna, secretary magna, romance magna, probably vetenarian magna)

Brian

[effac3d]

Originally posted by smiling bandit
He could probably do that anyway. He hadn't really gotten much in the way of superstrength yet, and I don't think he had much difference in the bow's draw from the opening.

Plus, when Hayao Miyazaki turns on the gore, he turns it on all the way.

Well Ashitaka(sp?) did look surprised when he first took a head off,he looked down at his arm IIRC.

[slortar]

I like Mononoke, but it's still one of my least favorite Miyazaki/Studio Ghibli films. I enjoyed Spirited Away quite a bit more. My major complaint was that Mononoke was rather preachy, although not quite to the same extent as Pon Poco.

Very beautiful film, though. Wish he'd do another straight fantasy some time...

[butter pie]

Count me as another that loved Sprited Away much more. San was a little too cold -- I had a hard time sitting through Mononoke. I haven't seen his other movies yet, but I saw Spirited Away in the theatre and it's one of the very few movies that really upset me (in a good way.)

[MrDibble]

Originally posted by slortar

Very beautiful film, though. Wish he'd do another straight fantasy some time...

Ask, and ye shall receive...
Miyazaki is busy with a film version of Diana Wynne Jones' Howl's Moving Castle which should be an exploration of many of the same themes as Spirited Away, for those who know the book - transformation, growing up, the edifice as character, moral greyness, I can't wait - a great choice for him to do, I think. It's a modern fantasy classic, even if often buried in the teen section.
Nausicaa.net section (http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/howl/)
Nausicaa.net, BTW, is a great resource for more on the man and his films - Nausicaa was my favourite Miyazaki film before Spirited Away- now that's my favourite film of all time, and all genres.

[dorkusmalorkusmafia]

I loved Princess Mononoke. Pon Poko was good but it dragged and got to be really odd when the testicular super powers started in. Spirited Away is by far my favorite film by Miyazaki. Shinto seems to be used as a large base for the films of his that I have seen, that and the distinction between good and evil being the motivation behind the characters (though I think that is true with a lot of anime).

[JRDelirious]

Originally posted by RobuSensei

Rob
(who wonders how Disney would handle a dub script for Pom Poko....)

Oh, they wouldn't have the... the... um... the... guts? for it :p

[RobuSensei]

Originally posted by RealityChuck
"Japanimation" was the term first used when the films started reaching the US (not counting the Astroboy-8th Man-Gigantor etc. boom in the 60s). "Anime" is the upscale term for the same thing. If you say "japanimation," the anime snobs will sniker and think you're a rube. is there an echo in here?Originally posted by N9IWP
Magna [sic] is printed matter (to put it crudely, comic books) while anime, is well, animated (tho borrowing many style elements from magnaWell, speaking for myself and my large group of anime-loving friends, even though we probably qualify as "anime snobs," we don't have a problem with the term Japanimation.

And there's nothing crude about calling manga comic books; that's pretty much what the word means, after all. Anime is to manga as animation is to comic books. Sometimes one is inspired by the other, and sometimes vice-versa, and sometimes there is no relation.

[slortar]

Originally posted by MrDibble
Ask, and ye shall receive...
Miyazaki is busy with a film version of Diana Wynne Jones' Howl's Moving Castle which should be an exploration of many of the same themes as Spirited Away, for those who know the book - transformation, growing up, the edifice as character, moral greyness, I can't wait - a great choice for him to do, I think. It's a modern fantasy classic, even if often buried in the teen section.
Nausicaa.net section (http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/howl/)
Nausicaa.net, BTW, is a great resource for more on the man and his films - Nausicaa was my favourite Miyazaki film before Spirited Away- now that's my favourite film of all time, and all genres.

I'm looking forward to that one already. I just saw the Cat Returns (yes, I know, it's Ghibli, not Miyazaki) a few weeks back and I'm already jonesing for more. :)

Then again, even if I had no idea who Miyazaki is, I'd be sold on the film. That concept art of the castle is really, really cool.

[RobuSensei]

Originally posted by dorkusmalorkusmafia
Pon Poko was good but it dragged and got to be really odd when the testicular super powers started in.Well, the whole testicular powers thing is very much a part of Japanese folklore about tanuki. Japanese audiences didn't bat a eye at that stuff, while Western audiences would probably shy away from it. Thus, the odds are high that Disney/Buena Vista probably won't be releasing that one outside of Japan.

As for Shinto being the basis of his films, of the Miyazaki/Studio Ghibli films I have seen, I'd say four out of fifteen of them have strong Shinto elements in their premises (My Neighbor Totoro, Pom Poko, Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away).

(And if I were truly an anime snob, I suppose I would have typed in the romaji names of those films instead of the English....) (^_^)

[CyberPundit]

"that and the distinction between good and evil being the motivation behind the characters (though I think that is true with a lot of anime)."
Actually I think it's the opposite. Moral ambiguity is a hallmark of most of Miyazaki's films and a lot of anime as well. I think only Castle in the Sky, among his films, has a conventional villain.

Also I don't think the criticism of "preachiness" is accurate. Many people think that Mononoke is an ecological film but you could just as well argue that it's about the virtures of industrial development; one of the most beautiful scenes is the introduction to IronTown: the town, the people and the workshops. I think one of the strengths of the film is that it doesn't take sides between the humans and the animals and shows the good and bad sides of each.


Robu Sensei,
I read somewhere that many Japanese were down on Studio Ghibli because of the whole rose-tinted DVD fiasco? Also there apparently was some disappointment with the Cat Returns? Is that true? Did the Oscar reverse this?

[RobuSensei]

CyberPundit:

There is a (class action?) lawsuit (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/article.php?id=2893) in progress against Buena Vista Home Entertainment over the red tint in Spirited Away, but it's progressing slowly. BVHE says that Studio Ghibli is responsible for it, and the studio has said that there's nothing wrong with the disc. Oddly, when the movie had its first showing on broadcast TV, it still had the red tint.

However, none of this seems to have really affected the public's perception of Studio Ghibli. (And the Academy Award certainly didn't hurt things, either, of course!)

As for The Cat Returns, it wasn't a blockbuster hit like Spirited Away or Mononoke, but then it was never expected to be one, as far as I can tell. It was much more of a light entertainment than an epic story. The DVD topped the sales charts when it was released back in July.

[KarlGrenze]

I loved Princess Mononoke, I'll watch Spirited Away soon in the cinema.

One thing that amused me in Mononoke was how the heads and arms and everything, even when taken off by an arrow, fell down with a straight line.

No jagged bloody extremities, but they're gone swift and straight. :)

[KingLupid]

Has anyone seen Grave of the Fireflies? I caught it on IFC or Bravo long ago, and I remember it being fantastic.

Its a story of two children orphaned by the bombing during WWII, trying to survive on the streets of Tokyo, IIRC. Really touching and great.

[Miller]

Originally posted by paulberserker
check out 'Laputa- Castle in the Sky', also by Miyazaki. that film blew me away when i saw on TV in about 89. only have to wait til the end of october for it on DVD.

It's already available in the US on DVD. And Canda, I assume.

I saw Princess Monoke, when it came out, and thought it was really good. Bought the DVD when it came out, put on the shelf between Ghost in the Shell and Akira. Then I bought Spirited Away unseen, on the strength of the word-of-mouth, and was absolutely floored. So I ran out the next day and got Castle in the Sky, and... I was underwhelmed. It had some great moments, but it seemed to be a very typical anime movie. Although, for all I know, that's because so many other anime movies cribbed from it. Probably, I would have enjoyed it more if I had seen it before I'd seen Monoke and Spirited Away.

[slortar]

Originally posted by Miller
So I ran out the next day and got Castle in the Sky, and... I was underwhelmed. It had some great moments, but it seemed to be a very typical anime movie. Although, for all I know, that's because so many other anime movies cribbed from it. Probably, I would have enjoyed it more if I had seen it before I'd seen Monoke and Spirited Away.

It's also about twenty years older than Spirited Away--you have to keep that in mind. You might also want to give Kiki's Delivery Service a try--you've seen everything else that's out over here, save for the Sherlock Hound tv series and Castle of Cagliostro (highly recommended).

[CyberPundit]

"Has anyone seen Grave of the Fireflies?"
Sure. I consider it another masterpiece but slightly below Mononoke. Incidentally the third mastepiece produced by Ghibli is also by Takahata: Only Yesterday. These are the three best animated films I have ever seen. In addition to being great films in their own right they extend the boundaries of what animation can tackle. This is especially true of Only Yesterday which is a realistic drama which could easily have been done by live-action but where the animation enhances the mood of the film in all sorts of ways.

"So I ran out the next day and got Castle in the Sky, and... I was underwhelmed"
Yes IMO it's one of Miyazaki's two weakest films(along with the Lupin film). It's still quite enjoyable though (like the Lupin) and it says something about a director when you can say that about his worst films.

[criminalcatalog]

For a different style of animation, try Fantastic Planet. More of illustration than paint, and with some very memorable elements.

[Miller]

Originally posted by slortar
It's also about twenty years older than Spirited Away--you have to keep that in mind. You might also want to give Kiki's Delivery Service a try--you've seen everything else that's out over here, save for the Sherlock Hound tv series and Castle of Cagliostro (highly recommended).

Yeah, that was sort of what I was getting at. Seen as a part of an artist's progression, it's probably more effective. Seeing it right after watching his two latest (and greatest) films, it's hard not to get hung up on how much he would improve over the next two decades. In addition, I've never cared much for the look of anime from the late seventies/early eighties. Although Miyazaki did some wonderful things with the woodcut-look to the backgrounds in Laputa.

Originally posted by criminalcatalog
For a different style of animation, try Fantastic Planet. More of illustration than paint, and with some very memorable elements.

Ugh, what a turkey. Poorly conceived, poorly written, poorly animated. Easily one of the dopiest movies I've ever seen.

[asterion]

Originally posted by CyberPundit

Yes IMO it's one of Miyazaki's two weakest films(along with the Lupin film). It's still quite enjoyable though (like the Lupin) and it says something about a director when you can say that about his worst films.

Castle of Cagliostro is interesting because it is the only one of Miyazaki's movies (that I know of anyway) that is based on someone else's franchise (in this case, Monkey Punch.) It is also the cleanest Lupin I have ever seen. If it wasn't for Manga's horrible dub, you could show it to a six-year old (and still can, if you don't mind him hearing a bit of cursing.)

[KidCharlemagne]

Huh, I just finished watching Spirited Away and can't say I liked it half as much as Princess Mononoke.

[RobuSensei]

Originally posted by asterion
Castle of Cagliostro is interesting because it is the only one of Miyazaki's movies (that I know of anyway) that is based on someone else's franchise (in this case, Monkey Punch.) And it's a damned good flick, too... However, I'd think that Kiki's Delivery Service fits into that category, too. It's based on a children's book by Eiko Kadono, although Miyazaki took the characters and settings and added his own story to them. Ms. Kadono was upset with his additions, and almost killed the project; after Miyazaki and his producer visited her home, and had her visit the studio, they managed to persuade her to continue.

And don't forget the aforementioned Howl's Moving Castle....

There are some other Studio Ghibli films (not directed by Miyazaki) that are based on other works, too. Grave of the Fireflies, Ocean Waves, Whisper of the Heart, among others.

Here is a link (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1550377884/qid=1063267142/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/103-7332245-3196653?v=glance&s=books) to the English translation of the book, "Kiki's Delivery Service". (The Japanese (http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/books/kiki/index.html#novel1) cover looks much better, imho)

[dorkusmalorkusmafia]

As for Shinto being the basis of his films, of the Miyazaki/Studio Ghibli films I have seen, I'd say four out of fifteen of them have strong Shinto elements in their premises (My Neighbor Totoro, Pom Poko, Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away).

Very interesting. These are the four movies I have seen. Since Shinto seemed to have an element in each of these I figured the others would have a little of something too.